MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1147 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: rape scene by DC Kincaid 2) thingies by "Eleonora Scoseria" 3) Re: Bethany Weber by Bethany Weber 4) *That* post (NOT: Re: Bethany Weber) by Ken Hyde 5) Re: Van out of character and apologies by "Alexandra Y. Kwan" 6) Re: Bethany/TLS by 7) Re: Bethany/TLS by Ken Hyde 8) Re: I didn't / Recommended order. by "Cindy Meeks" 9) Re: Offesenses by AERDEN-+AT+-delphi.com 10) Re: I didn't / Recommended order. by Ken Hyde 11) Barbie/Correction by "Cindy Meeks" 12) Re: Christians by Lydia Hales 13) Re: Christians/evil fantasy by Lydia Hales 14) Re: Van out of character and apologies by NightSong 15) Re: Van out of character and apologies by "Fawcett, Erika" 16) Re: relig. by sage.blackhart-+AT+-juno.com (sage f blackhart) 17) Re: Fluffy, very fluffy by John Hagen 18) SERRAted Edge by FireWurm-+AT+-aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 21:02:07 -0500 From: DC Kincaid To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: rape scene Message-ID: <33348F1F.B20-+AT+-peace.oaktree.net> Kay Huang Perry wrote: > > This may have been mentioned already, but doesn't it seem odd or perhaps > just overly used, that most of Lackey's main characters in her early books > who have tragically hard lives get raped at some point in their lives? > > Here's the list so far: > Vanyel > Talia > Kethry > Tarma > Idra > You would be suprised to know perhaps how many people actually get raped... I know of several men, one of which has been raped more than once... Rape is about control, and a lot of armies "used" to be given carte blanche (spelling?) when a city or town was captured to rape and pillage. Women in combat are especially vulnerable to rape when captured (apparently) so these stories reflect more reality than we wish to be true. Women can also, in some cases, rape men and other women though I'm certain this is a minority of cases. Fast Fashion http://www.oaktree.net/angel1 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 00:38:48 +0000 From: "Eleonora Scoseria" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: thingies Message-ID: Heyla, I am back from my holiday but have not yet set my list mail to ack. (Haven't decided whether I will actually since I don't really have the time to discuss things in full). Anyway, Kimberly asked me to fwd this to the list. Love, Ele P.S. If anyone has sent me personal email in the last 10 days I prolly did not get it, so please resend A ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 22:02:04 -0500 To: infodyn-+AT+-distrinet.com.uy From: awand-+AT+-IDT.NET (Kimberly) Subject: please forward this?! dear Ellie, I'm unsubbing from the list, but I have problems sending :( Server. ~*~*~*~*~*~*~ ::sigh:: I do wish that Josh hadn't written this: > actually, magic is dealing with Satanism. doing illusions deals with > tricking people, but magic is a whole different thing. Magic is basically > calling on Satan for his power. All that "playing" magic does is play > calling on Satan's power. If you play with fire, it WILL burn you. > Wiccans are long gone. They have already given their lives to Satan. > Satan has taken them and the only hope for them (and anyone else) is Jesus > Christ. The church of Wicca is a cult. Scratch that. It is an occult. A > cult has plainly led many people the wrong way. An occult plainly worships > Satan. What happened to Christian love? *flinch* I can't help but feel as if I've been slapped across the face. I'm quitting the Misty list. I love it a lot, but most of the people who were my friends on the mailing list have unsubscribed, and with this new development, I'm just too tired to be taking sides in a religious war. I feel sorry for the people who are reduced to hatred and ignorance. I want to cry because I know I can't help change the misperceptions here. I can't believe in a person who's abandoned so much potential for wonder, either. I see magic in every living creature, and a sort of innocence in every leaf's growth and death. A beauty in children playing together, an incredible feeling of awe in the lovelines of the earth and sky. I want to wash away in it the same way I want to fall into the arms of a friend and stay there forever. I'm sorry that the celebration of this cuts at the heart of anyone. My apologies for the rudeness, listsibs, Auntie Mel. Love, Kimberly ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 21:54:32 -0600 (CST) From: Bethany Weber To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Bethany Weber Message-ID: Ok, I want to see this thread die too, but I'd like to make a few points: 1) Nobody has attrubituted this inflammatory post to me, but it does seem to have been attached to my name. Just want to remind everyone: The post was written BY SOMEONE ELSE in respose to a post BY ME -- ie I DIDN'T WRITE IT! :) In case someone is confused: Bethany Weber _didn't_ write the nasty, narrow-minded subject of the "Bethany Weber" thread. Everyone remember that -- I want to be able to show my face around here again... 2) Two things strike me as kind of funny: - the different ways people have found to misspell my name. :) - what-his-name's request that I describe my ceremonies to him. Sure, why not? There's nothing too shocking about them. I'm pretty much agnostic, and not very religious, but my official affiliation is United Methodist, and those are the wicked, Satanist ceremories I attend. :) OBMisty: I think "The Free Bards is a 3-volume book with the 3 Bardic Voives books in them. Does anyone know when/if the next Bardic Voices book is coming out? If I remember right, it features Ardis and should thus provide some relief from the Good Bards/Evil Church theme. Bethany Weber ------------------Official Weredragon of Rice University------------------- "The truth is usually just an excuse for lack of imagination." -Garak, DS9, "Improbable Cause." But reality is *always* an excuse for lack of imagination. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Dragon etiquette is incredibly complicated, and if you make a mistake, the dragon eats you." -- Patricia C. Wrede, _Talking to Dragons_ ------------------http://www.owlnet.rice.edu:80/~bethany/------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 23:18:04 -0500 (EST) From: Ken Hyde To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: *That* post (NOT: Re: Bethany Weber) Message-ID: On Sun, 23 Mar 1997, Bethany Weber wrote: > In case someone is confused: Bethany Weber _didn't_ write the nasty, > narrow-minded subject of the "Bethany Weber" thread. Everyone remember > that -- I want to be able to show my face around here again... Ooops, you know, I suppose that this would be a very disturbing development. My apologies, Bethany, for perpetuating the association of your name with this thread. > agnostic, and not very religious, but my official affiliation is United > Methodist, and those are the wicked, Satanist ceremories I attend. :) So, you *admit* that you are a member of my grandparents Church! Hah! Proof positive that you have been involved in that most hideous and evil of rituals: "The murdering of helpless hymns by older ladies with blue hair, warbly voices, and acres of polyester!" Well, that is the only blood-curdling ritual I remember from going to church with my grandfather as a little kid. =) BTW, just a little tidbit for you, according to his obit, my grandfather was a pillar of the "Untied [sic] Methodist Church." Everyone agreed that while he was occasionally unhinged, that was not the same thing. Hmmmm. ObMisty, do you suppose Treesa was active in the Ladies Auxiliary and a member of the Temple of Astera's Ladies Choir? I have this utterly hilarious picture of her, in miles of chiffon and purple hair (died to match her favorite ink), singing "Lady of Stars" in a really penetrating, but not terribly good, soprano head-voice. May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd, Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me **http://www.udel.edu/kenny/ken.html or .../kenny/green.silences.html** ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 22:26:09 -0800 From: "Alexandra Y. Kwan" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Van out of character and apologies Message-ID: <3334CD00.DB3-+AT+-earthlink.net> Hi, Shy. No, I think Vanyel is subconsciously afraid, too. So, to stop himself from being scared, he went ahead and done the unthinkable. Also, it seemed to me that Vanyel never realized that there's only Savil and him left until after Savil's death. One more thing is that Stefen, unfortunately, have convinced Vanyel that the deaths of others were just accidents. I'm not blaming Stefen, his way of thinking was the more logical and sensible way of thinking, but, unfortunately, the world isn't made for those who are logical and sensible. Well, that's my two cents. from little alex Shy V Kraytman wrote: > > This is a though that had been drifting in and out of my mind > ever since I finished reading LHM series. I have finally come around to > putting this in a question. I am referring to a scene right before > Savil's murder. (excuse lack of texevd - don't have my books available) > The previous two herald mages have already been killed, and she asks Van > for more reinforcement in her shielding and checking her wards. He > assures her that he will do so shortly and leaves, thinking to himself > 'what's up with her' (this isn't a direct quote - just crude > paraphrasing) 'must be getting old in her years - getting paranoid that > people are out to kill her.' Of course then she gets killed and the story > goes on and Van feels incredibly guilty. What I want to know is if > anybody else thinks that his thoughts are really out of character here. > No, before anyone jumps me to defend Vanyel, I would like to > point out that I part of the OAM, and this isn't a critique of Vanyel, > but of Misty's writing. Considering the situation - there are four herald > mages left and two have been killed - I would think it's reasonable for > Savil to ask for his help, and Vanyel loved his aunt dearly and always > took her seriously. Then there's this one part and it seems to stick out > like a sore thumb. Anybody have any comments? > -- > While I'm writing, I would like to take the time to apologize for > flaming so much about the Bethany Weber post. I admit that I got a little > too upset about it and should have toned it down onList. I will not take > back what I said but I do apologize for posting that to the whole list. > :::blushes and cringes remembering Kenny's chastising::: > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Shy Kraytman -- Lonehawk2-+AT+-aol.com -- Shyhawk-+AT+-juno.com > "I'll meet you then, in the time between / Where wilted fields > are evergreen, / Where both the light and dark are keen - / The warming > sun in the cold ravine. / Where long forgotten things are seen, Obsidian > and tourmaline. / With a heart both anguished and serene, / You'll find > me in the time between." > -Kate Price > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 22:40:55 -0800 To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Bethany/TLS Message-ID: <3334D077.4BBD-+AT+-peak.org> Cindy Meeks wrote: Oh my. Is this true, is anyone who can use "Magic" a satanist??? *LAUGHS* the few wiccan friends I have insist that I'm a natural "Witch" that is that I am gifted. I do "Magic" quite naturally, *I* follow Zoroaster's teachings to the best of my abilities. I can believe in a goddess (in fact there are several. Arta Mazda created many Deva to aid him in the battle against Ariman. And before you tell me that I worship Satan, I would remind you that the God of the Jews told Abraham that the Priest of Zalem was his priest too. and the Priest of Zalem was Zoroasterian too. My dear child, Judge not, least ye be so judged. The hebrews once had a Goddess called Shakina, The Mother of the World, The Comforter, God as Woman, and the Holy Spirit. See any familiar titles??? Religon, never get to deep into it, you'll learn that black is white and white is really purple. ---------- I've been leaving my $.02 out of this thread. It seems that several people have handled chastizing (I mean explaining things to) Josh much better than I ever could have done. Thank you. I try not to be to critical of obvious ignorance. It's evil's greatest weapon, luckily it's one that is easily trained out of pople. Most folk can be shown the light. why give Arimin any more holds on a poor soul. However, I love this post and wish I knew who wrote it. I was raised under many different religions (mom couldn't make up her mind) and I am now beginning to explore Wicca. It appears to me that Wicca is closer to my true beliefs than any other religion. Any of the Wiccans on the list.. I'd appreciate your forwarding me in private any suggested reading materials... I wish I could recomend some reading matierals. but my beliefs started out Mormon Christian. Then I discovered Shakina, then I learned something of Zoroastrianism and the Deva's who rule our lives. Arta-Mazda/Elohim/Ishem, or whatever you call God, is really more understanding than most want to give him credit for. Listen with your Heart, you will under stand. However this is not the reason for me to de-lurk on this subject. A lot of people on the list got very angry when TLS was posted for Misty's fans to read. Many citing their anger at it being posted because people on this list, the news groups etc as being normal fans. Then of course this flaming (or flame worthy) post comes out of the woodwork. Anyone think that maybe she did post it in the right place after all. I think so too, the safest place to vent anger and frustration is among friends. And hopefully we are all that. I won't flame Josh for his beliefs. I feel sorry that he can only see God in that one way. I will flame him for sending it to the list as he did. When we all joined this list we were warned against purposefully inflaming people. Josh as several others have said... play nice or go away. Indeed. Good working, couldn't have done it better myself, and I'm a published poet. Again, I love the level headed way that this post was written. No flames, no fire... just the facts... I applaud you whoever you are. Thank you. Rune Call me Cindy... Call me Rune... I'd sing you a song but can't carry a tune!!! Visit my homepage at http://home1.gte.net/cmeeks/index.htm My Master Called me Mar`Pai, meaning Cursed Child, because I have been blessed/cursed with powers I cannot yet understand or control, and the desire to use them for good. I keep the name Mar`Pai to remind me that even now, as I begin to learn, there are others who walk in Shadow "From Darkness we all Come To darkness we all return But for a brief moment Let us all Brightly Burn." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 02:55:00 -0500 (EST) From: Ken Hyde To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Bethany/TLS Message-ID: On Sun, 23 Mar 1997, Someone on the list wrote (and cleverly omitted their name and address): > I wish I could recomend some reading matierals. but my beliefs started > out Mormon Christian. Then I discovered Shakina, then I learned > something of Zoroastrianism and the Deva's who rule our lives. > Arta-Mazda/Elohim/Ishem, or whatever you call God, is really more > understanding than most want to give him credit for. Listen with your > Heart, you will under stand. I have a sneaking suspicion that it was Rune, simply because that was the signature with this post. But whoever, please take this to a private correspondance. I, for one, think that there are enough problems with religion on this list without giving "religious instruction" on-list. The wording of this post was clearly proselytizing (theological discourse) rather than discussing (religious studies discourse). Not to put too fine a point on it, but *I* find this sort of religious witnessing nearly as unpleasant to endure as "Satanism" post that recently was here. Let us please leave personal religious beliefs off-list. I am prepared to respect everyone's right to whatever religious beliefs they choose to have, however, I do ask that in return, they respect my right to be free from religion (as in, don't witness, testify, preach, or what-have-you at me). I realize that this wasn't directed at me, personally, but in a way that just makes it worse. As has been stated, over and over again, if you are addressing a particular person and the reply is not germane to the list topic, don't send it to the list. At this point, there is not even the excuse that a lot of people are newbies, since Mel just posted her Rules of Thumb with the Posting Guidelines a day or two ago. May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd, Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 04:27:49 -0600 From: "Cindy Meeks" To: Subject: Re: I didn't / Recommended order. Message-ID: <199703231025.EAA02230-+AT+-smtp.gte.net> > On Sun, 23 Mar 1997, Someone on the list wrote (and cleverly omitted > their name and address): > > > I wish I could recomend some reading matierals. but my beliefs started > > out Mormon Christian. Then I discovered Shakina, then I learned > > something of Zoroastrianism and the Deva's who rule our lives. > > Arta-Mazda/Elohim/Ishem, or whatever you call God, is really more > > understanding than most want to give him credit for. Listen with your > > Heart, you will under stand. > > I have a sneaking suspicion that it was Rune, simply because that was the > signature with this post. Sorry Cynedd, the top part was from an anonymous list member not me. My part of the post starts at "I've been leaving my $0.02 out..." Actually, my note had not been finished when my fiancee kindly sent it for me before closing my e-mail. I apologize for any confusion this may have caused. I do agree that we've seen enough of this subject to last a long time. Actually it seemed to have been a great open discussion of religions and how they compare to the world of Velgarth until Josh spoke up. I did request further information from some of our other list friends however, my request was that people contact me privately for further discussion. Again, due to the premature sending of this post, my e-mail address was not included at the bottom of the post. Hmmm.... this seems to cause a lot of problems. People requesting information to be sent to them off list but others not knowing how to do this. Should we all make sure our e-mail addresses are in our signatures if we post? *shrug* Back onto the normal topics... I recently converted another friend (hi Scarlet) to Misty's works. Does anyone know how many books Misty has written? I want to make sure I haven't missed any. Also, now that you've read AotQ, VoH, and the LHM series, if you were recommending her works to someone, which order would you use. Published order or Chronological? Sheeps to those I confused! Rune Call me Cindy... Call me Rune... I'd sing you a song but can't carry a tune!!! Visit my homepage at http://home1.gte.net/cmeeks/index.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 11:21:46 -0500 (EST) From: AERDEN-+AT+-delphi.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Offesenses Message-ID: <01IGU9708Y0OA24V99-+AT+-delphi.com> On 21-MAR-1997 15:47:28.6 mercedes-lackey said to AERDEN me>Many people find rape of any person, whether gay or straight, to be extremely offensive. I should certainly hope they would....Don't care to be around someone who find it offensive. FWIW the homosexuality in the LHM books didn't offend me at all. It was handled quite tastefully, and Misty made her characters who happened to be gay, instead of making them gay people. Re people who use all caps in their mail...I find the etiquette martinets who complain about this more offensive than the folks who commit the 'crime.' If I must get angry about something there are far, far more important things in this world for me to be angry about. I do, however, object to people who don't use punctuation! (g) Chantal/Aerden Lady of the Order of Putzer Servants Evil triumphs when good men do nothing. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 11:23:35 -0500 (EST) From: Ken Hyde To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: I didn't / Recommended order. Message-ID: On Sun, 23 Mar 1997, Cindy Meeks wrote: > Sorry Cynedd, the top part was from an anonymous list member not me. My > part of the post starts at "I've been leaving my $0.02 out..." > Actually, my note had not been finished when my fiancee kindly sent it > for me before closing my e-mail. Ah, that would explain it. Actually, this is one of the things that I never had to deal with while living with my family. Since everyone in the family is a computer professional of some sort (except me, rebel that I am!), it was quickly drilled into everyone's heads that you never, NEVER close a program without saving every open file to disk (and you don't send email that you weren't authoring). On the other hand, having a fiancee (whether fully indoctrinated to computer courtesy--you know that sounds a lot like "range courtesy" in concept) probably has all sorts of nifty other benies. =) > I apologize for any confusion this may have caused. Such is life. > I do agree that we've seen enough of this subject to last a long time. > Actually it seemed to have been a great open discussion of religions and > how they compare to the world of Velgarth until Josh spoke up. I know. Unfortunately, that seems to be the fate of religious discussions in general. They start out as great "open" discussions, but sooner or later, someone has to go and bring "truth" (their version) or "the right way" (again, their definition) into it and the whole thing goes flying out the window (usually spitting, screaming, and biting). I think that this has happened at least twice before in the last year and a half (although this is the first time it got a bizarre as this). I suppose it is the price we must pay for the fun of discussing controversial ideas. > Hmmm.... this seems to cause a lot of problems. People requesting > information to be sent to them off list but others not knowing how to do > this. Should we all make sure our e-mail addresses are in our > signatures if we post? *shrug* I think the best solution would be if people actually started to reply privately, when so requested. Almost any email client will allow one to reply to either the from: address or the reply-to: address. > Back onto the normal topics... I recently converted another friend (hi > Scarlet) to Misty's works. Yay! Misty content! =) /me thanks Rune for bringing up an on-topic discussion that is sure to get lots of response. This (below) is a proven, tested-by-time topic for lively discussion (it crops up every couple of months). I think it falls into the category of "frequently asked, but oldbies will just have to live with it because newbies have a right to express themselves too =P." =) Actually, on a lot of these FAQs, the aphorism that keeps running through my mind is Tarma saying "that was then, this is now, the moment is never the same twice." =) > Does anyone know how many books Misty has written? I think the count is up towards 50 these days. > I want to make sure I haven't missed any. Also, now that > you've read AotQ, VoH, and the LHM series, if you were recommending her > works to someone, which order would you use. Published order or > Chronological? I always favor publication order. For one thing, you get a better experience of Misty's writing development. Also, if you read Storms before you read AotQ or LHM, you are going to be very confused. The only set that I think can be read out-of-sequence without any major problems is Vows and Honor, and even then, if you read it before any of the Valdemar books, you will be wondering what is up with this Roald dude? Oh, and of course, you can read any of her non-Velgarth stuff in any order relative to the Velgarth books, but even there, it is interesting to read them in publication order. Misty has changed a lot over the years, and mixing books up is apt to create a jarring transition (not that that is a *bad* things). May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd, Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me **http://www.udel.edu/kenny/ken.html or .../kenny/green.silences.html** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 12:23:12 -0600 From: "Cindy Meeks" To: Subject: Barbie/Correction Message-ID: <199703231820.MAA27012-+AT+-smtp.gte.net> ****Misty Content Alert**** I've been reading parts of Black Griffon to my 4 year old. Of course I'm having to edit certain scenes due to Mature Themes but... She really loves it. I for one am going to order the Barbie patterns! She loves her Barbies and I feel making the costumes will be a great Mother/Daughter thing. I've been reading to her since she was born and she now shares my passion for books. Looks like she'll share my passion for Misty too! Anyone else sharing Misty with their children? ****Religion Content Correction**** >>> Cindy Meeks wrote: >>> Oh my. Is this true, is anyone who can use "Magic" a satanist??? >>> Religon, never get to deep into it, you'll learn that black is white >>> and white is really purple. Sorry folks... I did not write this one. I'm not sure who did. I wrote the reply below. ---------- >> I've been leaving my $.02 out of this thread. It seems that several >> people have handled chastizing (I mean explaining things to) Josh >> much better than I ever could have done. > Thank you. I try not to be to critical of obvious ignorance. It's > evil's greatest weapon, luckily it's one that is easily trained out of > pople. Most folk can be shown the light. why give Arimin any more > holds on a poor soul. >> However, I love this post and wish I knew who wrote it. I was >> raised under many different religions (mom couldn't make up her >> mind) and I am now beginning to explore Wicca. It appears to me >> that Wicca is closer to my true beliefs than any other religion. >> Any of the Wiccans on the list.. I'd appreciate your forwarding me >> in private any suggested reading materials... > I wish I could recomend some reading matierals. but my beliefs started > out Mormon Christian. Then I discovered Shakina, then I learned > something of Zoroastrianism and the Deva's who rule our lives. > Arta-Mazda/Elohim/Ishem, or whatever you call God, is really more > understanding than most want to give him credit for. Listen with your > Heart, you will under stand. >> However this is not the reason for me to de-lurk on this subject. A >> lot of people on the list got very angry when TLS was posted for >> Misty's fans to read. Many citing their anger at it being posted >> because people on this list, the news groups etc... as being normal >> fans. Then of course this flaming (or flame worthy) post comes out >> of the woodwork. Anyone think that maybe she did post it in the >> right place after all. > I think so too, the safest place to vent anger and frustration is among > friends. And hopefully we are all that. >> I won't flame Josh for his beliefs. I feel sorry that he can only >> see God in that one way. I will flame him for sending it to the list as >> he did. When we all joined this list we were warned against purpose- >> fully inflaming people. Josh as several others have said... play nice >> or go away. > Indeed. Good working, couldn't have done it better myself, and I'm a > published poet. > My Master Called me Mar`Pai, meaning Cursed Child, because I have been > blessed/cursed with powers I cannot yet understand or control, and the > desire to use them for good. > I keep the name Mar`Pai to remind me that even now, as I begin to learn, > there are others who walk in Shadow > "From Darkness we all Come > To darkness we all return > But for a brief moment > Let us all Brightly Burn." ---------- Maybe you can see now who wrote what. I only wrote the two arrow stuff. Mar 'Pai it would be better if you would use something to define quoted text and to set your responses off. I know that I was guilty of this in my original response to this missive but it was accidental. Making sure that the "who said what" thing is straight makes sure that you get the credit for your wisdom or blame for your flame. *giggle* ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 10:39:22 -0800 (PST) From: Lydia Hales To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Christians Message-ID: On Wed, 19 Mar 1997 Lynore_Belzer-+AT+-BAYLOR.EDU wrote: > On Wed, 19 Mar 1997 15:33:51 +0000 (GMT) mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk wrote: > > >I believe it was Shadowsong who asked if there were any other > >Christians on the list--- > >count me in on that! > >Bright day, everyone! (even if it's raining where you are!) > >Jacquelle > > *wave hand* Another one over here! I'm Christian...NOT Baptist, though, even > though I'm trapped at Baylor.... > > -Iswulf (Icewolf in Old English) > >> Me too. Lady Lydia ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 11:23:27 -0800 (PST) From: Lydia Hales To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Christians/evil fantasy Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Mar 1997, Megan Schreiber wrote: > *waves a hand* Me, me, I'm a Christian. : ) I'm a Mormon, to be exact. And > about this reading fantasy thing...I've never run into any problems with it. > I'm sure there are Mormons out there who believe reading fantasy is evil, > etc...but not that I've met. I asked a friend of mine about this (same > religion) and she said she'd never even known people thought that. So...draw > conclusions as you will. > > > Wyvern > http://www.byu.edu/~mschreib > >. When I was growing up, my father was a member of the Church of God. When my older sister was 16 or so (I was 10), and had gotten interested in fantsy books. She took one to a teen campout sponsored by the church. The youth leader had kittens! He told her that she was going to Hell, the whole nine yards (to mix metaphors). Soon after, my sister stopped going to chruch. She was prety much outcasted by the other kids, and the local church leaders were always on her case. A few months after this happened, my mother refused to attend the church any more, and we all stopped attnding. Eventually we ended up at a Methodist church for a while. I never had any problems with reading fantasy there. When I reached college, I converted to Catholicism. I have met only one priest who doesn't approve of fantasy, and he was older (in his late 60's or early 70's). Even then, it wasn't "YOu're going to hell if you read that junk, " but, "Those aren't good books to be reading." A lot of my friends are Episcopalian, and read fantasy. Their church hasn't given them any grief over their choice of literature. >From my experiences, from attending different churches, being friends with people of different denominations, and working at Campus Ministry is that the more fundamentalist churches are the ones that have problems with fantasy being evil. Lady Lydia ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 14:33:02 -0500 From: NightSong To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Van out of character and apologies Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970323193302.0068aeac-+AT+-atlonline.com> Shyster Kraytman wrote: I am referring to a scene right before Savil's murder. (excuse lack of texevd - don't have my books available) The previous two herald mages have already been killed, and she asks Van for more reinforcement in her shielding and checking her wards. He assures her that he will do so shortly and leaves, thinking to himself 'what's up with her' (this isn't a direct quote - just crude paraphrasing) 'must be getting old in her years - getting paranoid that people are out to kill her.' Of course then she gets killed and the story goes on and Van feels incredibly guilty. What I want to know is if anybody else thinks that his thoughts are really out of character here. And little alex wrote: >Hi, Shy. No, I think Vanyel is subconsciously afraid, too. So, to >stop himself from being scared, he went ahead and done the unthinkable. >Also, it seemed to me that Vanyel never realized that there's only Savil >and him left until after Savil's death. I really can't agree, little alex. Shy, I read that part and went 'huh?' What happened to the duty-bound Herald who never, EVER put himself before someone else? (This is AFTER MPawn, of course) I mean, Savil even asked him to put up the wards for her, THAT evening, and what does Vanyel do? He goes off, lets Stefan convince him he's being paranoid, and forgets to do it. The Vanyel that I knew and loved up to that point would never have let logic overrule his 'feeling', because too many times his feelings had been right. Doesn't he even say something along those lines himself? You have to concede that he was only human, right, and this is a case of that, but, to be honest, I think it was very out-of-character and only happened so that Savil could die. Gee, that sounds rather crude, but there it is. I mean, nothing after that could have happened if she hadn't been killed by the mage-construct. Hmm, that could be an interesting alt. timeline somewhere: what happens if certain key people die/don't die when they are supposed to? Anyways, I agree with Shy about that particular part in MPrice, though it is a necessary discrepancy for the storyline. Zhai'helleva, listsibs, NightSong jwrenn-+AT+-atlonline.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 15:01:27 -0500 From: "Fawcett, Erika" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Van out of character and apologies Message-ID: <199703232001.PAA26651-+AT+-postoffice.onu.edu> At 20:00 3/23/97 GMT, NightSong wrote: > You have to >concede that he was only human, right, and this is a case of that, but, to >be honest, I think it was very out-of-character and only happened so that >Savil could die. Gee, that sounds rather crude, but there it is. I mean, >nothing after that could have happened if she hadn't been killed by the >mage-construct. I thought the beastie that killed Savil got in before her wards went up, so it wouldn't have mattered if Van had fixed her wards up or not. Came in as a log of wood if I remember correctly. 'Course, it's still out of character for Vanyel, but then Van is human and was tired, and forgot. It's not that he decided not to do it, just that he forgot to do it that particular night. ---Erika "Now I know I could have walked through the walls." --The Last Unicorn ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 15:18:46 EST From: sage.blackhart-+AT+-juno.com (sage f blackhart) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Cc: sage.blackhart-+AT+-juno.com Subject: Re: relig. Message-ID: <19970323.151917.17750.0.Sage.Blackhart-+AT+-juno.com> --to Cindy the "darkness" I saw this and was like "whoa.." I didnt think I would witness this ignorance here on such an open minded place.. I've had the bible preached at me so many times its not even funny. Just wanted to say "if satan, says, Love one another, forgive, love the earth, dont kill, be good to your body do not harm it." then aren't we going about things all wrong??? Last time I checked "satan" was against all this... -Blessed Be- Sagey Sage.Blackhart-+AT+-Juno.com Weep no more, thine child, time has left ye to grow wild, weep no more, thus shall we smile, war is gone, grow now child ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 16:41:46 -0400 From: John Hagen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Fluffy, very fluffy Message-ID: <333594F7.6710-+AT+-snet.net> Here in certain states of the US, we have a lottery called Powerball. If you get all 5 white numbers and the red powerball number, you win the lottery. This coming Wednesday the jackpot is up to $55 million US. My husband, known affectionately as the Great Wombat, wants to win. Why? Because he wants to buy the area that our condo complex is on, get rid of all the buildings and build a 55 foot tall Great Wombat overlooking New Haven, CT. Its eyes (naturally searchlights) would wander over the length and breadth of New Haven, seeking out evil and illuminating it to be destroyed. Of course, our chances of winning are nil or at least extremely low. And equally of course, this is all pure fluffiness. But after all the religious flames (including mine, sorry everyone) I felt that we needed more religious fluff. Yes, Cennydd, I can see Treesa doing that. However, I think she would try real hard to sing as best she could. Lady Sara, LIG & Dryad Extraordinaire Hopeful Diety of All Marsupials, Past, Present, & Future ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 17:03:50 -0500 (EST) From: FireWurm-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: SERRAted Edge Message-ID: <970323170349_887146711-+AT+-emout04.mail.aol.com> Crystal wrote: > The SERRAted Edge novels >are some of my favorites, as are the novels with Korendil, Beth, and >Eric... urban fantasy seems to me to be a harder area to write in, but I >think she does well. I will miss the Diana Tregarde series because I >enjoyed all three of them. :) Are there any authors who write urban >fanstasy that anyone can suggest? oh i love those too. I ecspecialy loved the one with the fox lady in it. What was it called? I read it so long ago guess i have to break out the books again. THis may sound dumb but then the only dumb question is the one unspoken, what xactly is urban fantasy? Zhai'hellava Stallion ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1147 **********************************