MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1150 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Dragons by Taeyana-+AT+-aol.com 2) Re:Bardic Voices (Lark&Wren) by shyhawk-+AT+-juno.com (Shy V Kraytman) 3) Dragon musings/Biblical musings by AERDEN-+AT+-delphi.com 4) Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 1149 by Bethany Weber 5) Re:Bardic Voices (Lark&Wren) by "Sera" 6) Re: Re:Bardic Voices (Lark&Wren) by "Brian Sizemore" 7) Re:Bardic Voices (Lark&Wren) by Lee <97jsalaz-+AT+-uor.edu> 8) rel./dragon/Arthur Dent?/Hi!/homepage update by Becky 9) Re: Arthur Dent? by "Fawcett, Erika" 10) fairly lengthy braid ... by cjkocher-+AT+-spectra.net 11) re: fairly lengthy braid ... by Ailsa Reid 12) dragons, another short post by kholder-+AT+-dutch.worc-acad.pvt.k12.ma.us (kali holder) 13) Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 1149 by MELVIN NEVERGOLD 14) Sword of Ice by Cristilyn Lawton 15) Re: dragons, another short post by Megan Schreiber 16) Re: dragons, another short post by Lee <97jsalaz-+AT+-uor.edu> 17) Tylendel-Stefan/L&W/Van's dream/threeway lifebond by "John and Kara Pekar" 18) Re: dragons, another short post by "Fawcett, Erika" 19) dragons, another short post by Cristilyn Lawton ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 18:39:52 -0500 (EST) From: Taeyana-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Dragons Message-ID: <970325183814_-1538091264-+AT+-emout07.mail.aol.com> >GRAYMT wrote: >Velgarth? They have Elf equivalents (Tayledras) and >Unicorn equivalents (Companions) so where are the >dragons?> If I was going to name something from Misty's books as a dragon, I would probably call the hertasi a close call to dragons. In some legends, Dragons and elves were friends and occasionally helped each other. ::shrugs and rolls her eyes:: My brother thinks they are more dwarven, but, I guess that depends on your opinion. Taeyana ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 19:14:28 EST From: shyhawk-+AT+-juno.com (Shy V Kraytman) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re:Bardic Voices (Lark&Wren) Message-ID: <19970325.084819.8223.2.Shyhawk-+AT+-juno.com> Kara wrote: > I agree, I didn't like it as >well as some of the other books, nor as well as _The Lark and the Wren_ >(well, the first 3/4 of that one, anyway -- I still think that book should >have ended with Lark & Wren getting together Huh? Did you not finish the book? As far as I can recall the Lark and the Wren DID end up getting married. Am I hallucinating here or what? 'hawk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:06:39 -0500 (EST) From: AERDEN-+AT+-delphi.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Dragon musings/Biblical musings Message-ID: <01IGXM7UODLE9LV8CZ-+AT+-delphi.com> Why aren't there any dragons on Velgarth? Hm...Because, being Guardian Spirits, they all migrated to Pern, where they were desperately needed? (running away fast!) Re: "Nowhere in the Bible does it allow anyone to persecute other people's religions..." Uhhh...What about the Philistines, the Hittites, the Caananites (I think), etc.? One could probably argue that it was the countries, not their religions being persecuted, but it's kind of the same thing in effect, isn't it? (I don't claim to be a Biblical scholar. Feel free to reply off-list if you'd like.) Chantal/Aerden Lady of the Order of Putzer Servants "I, be a cruel, mean, and nasty goddess to my characters? Never!" --Sherry Shegrud ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 20:14:04 -0600 (CST) From: Bethany Weber To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 1149 Message-ID: > GRAYMT-+AT+-centum.utulsa.edu wrote: > > Oh! I have one! Why aren't there any dragons in > Velgarth? They have Elf equivelents (Tayladres) and > Unicorn equivelents (Companions) so where are the > dragons? > > Dax the Eternal, Lady of the Unicorns > Goddess of Elves, Evangelist of Low Humor > I don't know, but we *do* know there aren't -- at least, not to the knowledge of the Shin'a'in... in S&S 12, (I think) there was a crossover story into another universe where Tarma met a dragon and thought that it was like nothing in her world. Kris Frye wrote: > > Oh.. and does anyone know anything else about the new Free Bard book > that's supposed to come out? Is it an entirely new book, or is it merely > a volume combining the books that we already know and... well, know. I think that's the case, yes... (it's just a compilation, I mean.) > "John and Kara Pekar" wrote: > Of course, that would suggest that > a lifebond doesn't survive, and there is conflicting evidence on that > score. Is Van's lifebond with Stef a continuation of his bond with > 'Lendel, or a new bond? Are Tre'valen and Dawnfire an exception because > they become Avatars and so aren't really dead? We batted this question > around a few weeks ago, and didn't really reach a conclusion. Another question: are Van and Stef still lifebonded now that they're ghosts? I get the impression that they are. Maybe it's just the same small set of lifebonded couples going around over and over again, lifebonded every time? :) Savil and Medren were both _extremly_ surprised to find that Vanyel had lifebonded a second time, which seems to indicate that its _very_ unusual for a person to have another lifebond after their partner dies. Given that Stef was 'Lendal reincarnated, it makes me wonder if that's the ONLY way second lifebonds can happen... which I think would imply that it is a bond that lasts after death... at least, as long as one of the aprtners is still alive. (Random comment, but I never really liked that aspect of the relationship. In some ways, I would rather the gods had just granted Van a special dispensation based on what a bum deal he had gotten, and left out the reincarnation part altogether.) Bethany Weber ------------------Official Weredragon of Rice University------------------- "The truth is usually just an excuse for lack of imagination." -Garak, DS9, "Improbable Cause." But reality is *always* an excuse for lack of imagination. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Dragon etiquette is incredibly complicated, and if you make a mistake, the dragon eats you." -- Patricia C. Wrede, _Talking to Dragons_ ------------------http://www.owlnet.rice.edu:80/~bethany/------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 20:20:16 CST From: "Sera" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re:Bardic Voices (Lark&Wren) Message-ID: <2D8982F627B-+AT+-email.rosary.edu> > Kara wrote: -- I still think that book > should > >have ended with Lark & Wren getting together > > Huh? Did you not finish the book? As far as I can recall the Lark and the > Wren DID end up getting married. Am I hallucinating here or what? > 'hawk No, you are not hallucinating, they did marry at the end. In fact, unless I am thinking of something else they also had some children later on. I know that there were parts that didn't appear as though they would be together, but in the end things did work out. That is of course assuming that I read the same book as the rest of you?! Sera * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * "Truly you have a dizzying intellect." The Princess Bride "On ne voit bien qu'avec le coeur. L'essential est invisible pour les yeux." Le Petit Prince Antoine de Saint-Exupery * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Liz Blaszak blaszael-+AT+-email.rosary.edu http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/4537/ (708) 524-6997 X2076 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:22:41 -0500 From: "Brian Sizemore" To: Subject: Re: Re:Bardic Voices (Lark&Wren) Message-ID: <199703260232.VAA13619-+AT+-ais.ais-gwd.com> Shy V Kraytman wrote: > As far as I can recall the Lark and the > Wren DID end up getting married. Am I hallucinating here or what? > 'hawk I think you are right, they did get together in the end. Paradox ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Why do they call it the tourist season if we're not allowed to shoot them? # No matter what else you do in life, love another. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 19:45:26 -0800 (PST) From: Lee <97jsalaz-+AT+-uor.edu> To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re:Bardic Voices (Lark&Wren) Message-ID: > Kara wrote: > >well as some of the other books, nor as well as _The Lark and the Wren_ > >(well, the first 3/4 of that one, anyway -- I still think that book > should > >have ended with Lark & Wren getting together and 'hawk said, > Huh? Did you not finish the book? As far as I can recall the Lark and the > Wren DID end up getting married. Am I hallucinating here or what? I think Kara didn't mean to imply that they *didn't* get together; she just meant that when they did, it should have been the end of the book. *~the Eternally Nourished Lee, Lady Knight of the OAM and OOPS, Spreader of Humor, Self-Appointed User of 5-point Vocabulary Words Such As "Panegyric"~* <97jsalaz-+AT+-uor.edu> or Meta Geek Code: !gc (http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4709/) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:30:33 -0800 (PST) From: Becky To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: rel./dragon/Arthur Dent?/Hi!/homepage update Message-ID: > > I applaud Healer Althaia! > > I am staying out of the other religious thread, except to say to each > their own. > > Christi Redeker Oh dear, we didn't start the religion thing again did we? Maybe that ought to be something that should be prohibited from discussion. I understand there are many of us who can carry on rational *discussions* about religion, I know this for a fact, because we did do it a few times, but it seems like that is no longer possible. It is very sad though, that as the list grows we get people like that who just don't have a clue. :( > > Dragons... That's an interesting thought! Though, somehow, I just can't > see ACTUAL dragons in Velgarth. I mean, the thought of a Herald going off > to fight a firebreathing, maiden-snatching dragon is just ridiculous... > Well, to ME, anyways. But what about those smelly basilisks? > It does sound ridiculous when you put it that way :) I think the drakes and basilisks would be the most similar to dragons, although I still believe that they would merely be similar, like a vulture to a hummingbird. > Any thoughts, agreement or otherwise on > the gryphon/dragon idea? > I really don't think that gryphons could be considered dragons any more that unicorne couls be. They are both mythical creatures in our world, but in Velgarth it would be like making a comparison to killer cockatoos. :) Dragons are pure reptilian, unlike Gryphons who are a medley og things. Dragons are not something made, like the Gryphons, yes I know they could be, but essentially a dragon is an overgrown lizard. They don't have to fly and breathe fire to be a dragon. Which just made me think of something else, there don't seem to be many original animals in Velgarth (meaning ones that don't also exist in our world) besides the magical ones. I would think that if you were going to put the time in to create a whole new world that you would want it o actually be a *new* and original world. Unless of course that isn't what Misty wanted. Unfortunately we'll never know :( ======================== I'm back again! I gave up oncatching up and deleted most of the past mail. I got really caught up in school and our school's production of The Wizard of Oz. ALthough I have been busy, if you go take a look at the Misty List page, I'm redoing it. And this time I really will stay on top of it. I've put the bios in frames so it's easier to use, I'm not completely done yet, only about halfway, at the moment I think there are three different color schemes going on, but eventually they will all be the same. Feedback would be appreciated, positive, and especially negative, because then I'll know what to improve upon. You can find the frames version at www.iforge.com/~beckyanne/bios/index.html It's not the live version, just a testing copy, so links might be a little messy, the older version is still live on psnw.com. ======================= Okay, I have a question that I'm hoping someone will be able to answer. Does anyone recall who Arthur Dent is? Is he the main character in some book? I was writing my English essay on the Great Gatsby (F. Scott Fitzgerald, good book) and I for some reason thought the narrator was Arthur Dent (it wasn't, it's Nick something) Now, I want to know who arthur Dent is, or if it's something I'm just making up. I'm thinking it might be one of the people in Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy (another good book) which I was reading at the same time. Unfortunately, my memory has either spontaneously combusted, or is planning a revolt against the rest of my brain. I can't remember things anymore! Maybe it's just stress. Okay, I should stop my rambling, I begining to sound like a stream of consciousness writer. Aaack! =========================== Wow! There are a lot of new people, although I suppose a lot of you really aren't new, just new to me. It's been a while since I've stayed current. I'm glad to see new people, and I look forward to getting to know you. It also seems like people have disappeared, but I guess that just happens. Have a great spring break, (those of you who get one) *--------------------Lady Becky of the Hills--------------------* |Goddess of Tofu and Dry Breakfast Cereals | |Handmaiden of Procrastination | |Lady in Green, High Priestess of Hyperness and Overbubliness | |Founder of the AftPoSWT (confused? Just ask.) | |Mailing List Homepage http://www.psnw.com/~deb/becky/misty.html| |beckyanne-+AT+-iforge.com | *---------------------------------------------------------------* ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 00:52:52 -0500 From: "Fawcett, Erika" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Arthur Dent? Message-ID: <199703260552.AAA35604-+AT+-postoffice.onu.edu> At 05:37 3/26/97 GMT, Lady Becky of the Hills wrote: > Okay, I have a question that I'm hoping someone will be able to >answer. Does anyone recall who Arthur Dent is? Main character in Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy. He's the dorky one who gets picked up and crashes the ship because he really wants a cup of tea. I love hg, I think it should be required reading in highschool. Certainly changes one's view of the world. ---Erika "Now I know I could have walked through the walls." --The Last Unicorn ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 01:41:52 -0500 From: cjkocher-+AT+-spectra.net To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: fairly lengthy braid ... Message-ID: <3338C530.45C3-+AT+-spectra.net> Delurking for the moment ... :) The Lark/Wren & Eagle/Nightingale... I truly enjoyed the Lark and the Wren all the times I've read it. It was with great enthusiasm that I purchased the other two books ... with the Robin and the Kestrel, I was entertained, but not overly so. As for the Eagle and the Nightingale ... I couldn't even finish the book. It isn't that it was bad ... I think boring would be a better term. I don't think that bad books are published ... at the same time, not every book will appeal to every reader... it all depends on what your individual tastes are. When you think of it in that light, it's a bit arrogant on the reader's part to expect one author to please every reader all the time. ;) IMHO, anyways... ************************************************************************ Someone asked what urban fantasy is .... this isn't a textbook definition by any means, it's only my own thoughts ... to me, urban fantasy is any story that contains fantasy, magic, the occult, elves/dragons/unicorns etc ... and the setting is a world we can recognize easily as the one we live in. That's the appeal for me ... to think, Tannim could be that guy in that mustang right there... ;) and yes, I've looked at people and wondered what they look like in full regalia. :) Thanks for all the suggestions on authors ... it's greatly appreciated!!! ************************************************************************ Becky wrote: > there don't seem to be many original animals in Velgarth ... I would >think that if you were going to put the time in to create a whole new >world that you would want it o actually be a *new* and original world. I seem to recall reading a book Orson Scott Card wrote on writing science fiction and fantasy. If my reference is correct, he said something to the effect that new, alien, completely original beings are hard to create for many reasons. First, the author is human and is on this planet, so it's unlikely they have any more experience with strange beings than we do, and also, the more alien a character/creation is, the less sympathetic your audience is to it's cause/plight/well-being ... this made perfect sense to me. The novels I've read dealing with alien beings who *aren't* like anything we've (speaking as humans) seen or dealt with before are the ones least likely to evoke compassionate thoughts for them. (ie Card's series - Ender's Game, Speaker for the Dead etc...) So, I don't think it's that Misty (and other authors) doesn't want to create new and original worlds, but she/they simply might not be able to. The art of writing and storytelling is at its highest when something that has been told before is retold, and made new again. Again, IMHO. ;) ************************************************************************ Arthur Dent ... from Douglas Adams' Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, if I remember correctly. And yes, I always have my towel. ;) ************************************************************************ I've been reading the discourse on Stef/'Lendel ... one thought I had... granted, it's fairly true that Stef is 'Lendel reincarnated, but they are still *two seperate people*!!! Judging by the talk generated here, it's a good thing memories don't pass along to the next incarnation because any subsequent identity would be lost in the shadow of the first incarnation. One thing that rather disturbed me ... after Van and Stef were first together, and he dreams of 'Lendel ... if Stef were the complete reincarnation of 'Lendel, how could 'Lendel have appeared in the dreaming? That would suggest that Stef and his soul were just a vehicle for 'Lendel ... and to me, that puts Stef in an inferior light. I suppose this all depends on what your own idea of reincarnation is ... any thoughts on this one? (reading back, I just hope the meaning of what I tried to say comes through) ;) Someone brought up the fact that Florian seemed to remember his previous incarnations... doesn't it make sense that the Companions would? That's where their previous experience (the exp that Gwena lacks) comes from. In my readings on reincarnation, it's possible to glimpse one's previous life, but not to remember, with any clarity, what happened. I suppose the thing that has bothered me with the 'Lendel/Stef comparisons,was that people keep talking about 'Lendel/Stef like they are both alive. Even though Stef is the reincarnated soul of 'Lendel, 'Lendel, as we knew him in Herald's Pawn, is dead. Stef may be the same soul, but he's still a different person. ************************************************************************ Ok, Ok ... I'm wrapping this up. ;) Sheeps for such a long post ... I hope part of it made sense. Oh, I have to highly recommend a book called Archangels by Sharon Shinn ... this truly was one of the best reads I've had in a *long* time. It can be classified as fantasy, but also offers some twists and insights into religion... also a great love story with great characters, beautiul descriptions... Available now in paperback from Ace Science Fiction. Crystal ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 11:54:51 GMT From: Ailsa Reid To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: re: fairly lengthy braid ... Message-ID: <199703261154.LAA25918-+AT+-brookes.ac.uk> Crystal said: >I've been reading the discourse on Stef/'Lendel [snip] One thing that rather >disturbed me ... after Van and Stef >were first together, and he dreams of 'Lendel ... if Stef were the >complete reincarnation of 'Lendel, how could 'Lendel have appeared in >the dreaming? That would suggest that Stef and his soul were just a >vehicle for 'Lendel ... and to me, that puts Stef in an inferior light. >I suppose this all depends on what your own idea of reincarnation is ... >any thoughts on this one? I see the fact that Vanyel dreamed about 'Lendel rather than Stef something like this: everyone has a "spirit" or "soul", but very few people can talk directly to a disembodied spirit. So the spirit uses a "mask" ie. a body. Since Stef and 'Lendel had the same "spirit", it used the 'Lendel mask in Vanyels dream, because he _knew_ that version and there was a reasonable chance he would actually listen to it! Hmmm... Can you tell I've been rereading Katherine Kurtz's Adept books over the last couple of days ? ;> Crystal again: >Even though Stef is the reincarnated soul of 'Lendel, 'Lendel, as we >knew him in Herald's Pawn, is dead. Stef may be the same soul, but he's >still a different person. Sumarises what I meant nicely (I think). Same spirit inside, different mask on the top. Thus different personality, history, and general attitude to life. Ailsa the alien (This must be a record, I've posted at least 3 times in 1 month!!!!! <- yes 5 ) ____________________________________________________________________________ | Ailsa Reid areid-+AT+-brookes.ac.uk | | "What a night though it's one of seven, | | What a night for the dancing dead," | | (_Les Morts Dansent_ by Magnum) | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 08:52:59 -0400 From: kholder-+AT+-dutch.worc-acad.pvt.k12.ma.us (kali holder) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: dragons, another short post Message-ID: On the subject of dragons I'm wondering about how close wyverns are to them, Wyvern, any comments? I am under the impression that they are similar to dragons but smaller and upon that assumption I will base my next comment. In one of the Arrows books Talia likened Orthallen to his standard, the wyvern, in that he was cold blooded, or something of that nature. I think this shows that wyverns are mythical, like dragons and Gryphons are to us. Shadowsong ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 09:26:01 -0500 (EST) From: MELVIN NEVERGOLD To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 1149 Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Mar 1997, Bethany Weber wrote: > > Maybe it's just the same small set of lifebonded couples going around > over and over again, lifebonded every time? :) > > Savil and Medren were both _extremly_ surprised to find that Vanyel had > lifebonded a second time, which seems to indicate that its _very_ unusual > for a person to have another lifebond after their partner dies. Given > that Stef was 'Lendal reincarnated, it makes me wonder if that's the ONLY > way second lifebonds can happen... which I think would imply that it is a > bond that lasts after death... at least, as long as one of the aprtners > is still alive. > > (Random comment, but I never really liked that aspect of the > relationship. In some ways, I would rather the gods had just granted Van > a special dispensation based on what a bum deal he had gotten, and left > out the reincarnation part altogether.) > > Bethany Weber If I remember right there was a woman if AoQ that had a second lifebonded that could not be a reincarnated (refenrce to memtion of extemely rare triple lifebond) **(grins & winces)**. Melvin Nevergold If memory serves can it bring me some tea? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 22:12:11 -0500 From: Cristilyn Lawton To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Sword of Ice Message-ID: <3338940B.218F-+AT+-mindspring.com> Anybody read Sword of Ice? What do you think about other authors in Valdemar? I thought it was very well done, and I enjoyed most of the stories, especially the ones set in Karse, and the Vanyel ones. By the by, does anyone know where I can get Misty cross stitch patterns? Love, Light, & Laughter, Herald Darla Eleina Moonstar ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 11:38:58 -0700 From: Megan Schreiber To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: dragons, another short post Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970326183858.0068f3d8-+AT+-cougarnet.byu.edu> At 02:28 PM 3/26/97 +0000, you wrote: >On the subject of dragons I'm wondering about how close wyverns are to >them, Wyvern, any comments? I am under the impression that they are >similar to dragons but smaller and upon that assumption I will base my next >comment. Comments? From me? Wow.. :) Based on what I've read about them, wyverns are kind of like cousins to dragons. Most of the time, they're smaller and a bit more vicious, sometimes they only have two legs, and often they can't breathe fire like dragons. I think I read a book once where they had wyverns with venomed fangs, like snakes...thought that was kind of interesting. I can't remember where it was, though. Anyway, I don't think any wyverns ever did show up in the Velgarth books, except as mythical references, such as in Orthallen's standard. So perhaps this could be their equivalent of dragons. Just because some of our mythical animals show up in Velgarth, doesn't mean all of them do... Wyvern http://www.byu.edu/~mschreib ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 12:17:13 -0800 (PST) From: Lee <97jsalaz-+AT+-uor.edu> To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: dragons, another short post Message-ID: Wyvern wrote: > Anyway, I don't think any wyverns ever did show up in the Velgarth books, > except as mythical references, such as in Orthallen's standard. So perhaps > this could be their equivalent of dragons. Just because some of our mythical > animals show up in Velgarth, doesn't mean all of them do... But maybe the Valdemarans only *think* they're myths...after all, a lot of them thought gryphons were just myths until Treyvan & Hydona showed up. >From Raymond Feist's _Magician_ I got the impression that there was a general class of draconic animals, the largest being dragons, the smallest drakes, and, in between, wyverns. (Not that that necessarily has much bearing on the classical notion of what they are, but I read _Magician_ a long time ago and it's permanently marked my mental image of wyverns.) *~the Eternally Nourished Lee, Lady Knight of the OAM and OOPS, Spreader of Humor, Self-Appointed User of 5-point Vocabulary Words Such As "Panegyric"~* <97jsalaz-+AT+-uor.edu> or Meta Geek Code: !gc (http://www.geocities.com/Athens/4709/) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:50:31 -0500 From: "John and Kara Pekar" To: "MISTY" Subject: Tylendel-Stefan/L&W/Van's dream/threeway lifebond Message-ID: <199703262100.QAA31060-+AT+-sasquatch.crosslink.net> Bethany Weber wrote: > I never really liked that aspect of [Van and Stefan's] >relationship. In some ways, I would rather the gods had just granted Van >a special dispensation based on what a bum deal he had gotten, and left >out the reincarnation part altogether.) But I think the point of 'Lendel reincarnating as Stefan was twofold: A) for Van's sake, because he had had, as you put it, a bum deal, and because he was going to need Stefan badly in the future (to help him recover from the rape, among other things). B) for Tylendel's sake; he had a debt to Van to pay back, and he had misused his Gifts and brought great harm to the Heralds and Valdemar (in a sense) as well as to the Leshara. His actions and his death grieved the Heralds deeply, especially those who knew him. I believe the shock of realizing that a Herald could act in so unHeraldic a manner (even with the excuse of madness), and the discovery that a Companion could and would repudiate her Chosen, probably shook the Heralds, and to a certain extent Valdemar as a whole, to their collective core. A psychological wound, if you will. When Tylendel reincarnated as Stefan, it gave him a chance to pay that debt as well: he was able to offer the King enough release from pain to allow him to continue to rule; he made it possible for the last Herald-mage to carry out his final mission, protecting Valdemar from certain invasion and death; and he served Valdemar long and well after Van's death, using his Bardic Gifts and influence to persuade people that the Heraldic Gifts were all that were needed for Valdemar's protection and building up confidence within and about the Heraldic Circle. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Lonehawk said: >As far as I can recall the Lark and the > Wren DID end up getting married. Am I hallucinating here or what? And Lee said: >I think Kara didn't mean to imply that they *didn't* get together; she just meant that when they did, it should have been the end of the book. Right. I thought the section about their efforts to help Kestrel (beginning when they decide to travel with Robin) could have been expanded and fleshed out into a separate book. That section seemed less detailed, less "show" and more "tell", than the beginning two-thirds or three-quarters of the book. I would have preferred to wait until it had received the same fleshing out and fine polishing that the section about Rune's leaving home and training received. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Re the question (raised by Crystal) of why 'Lendel appeared in Van's dream, Ailsa said: >So the spirit uses a "mask" ie. a body. Since Stef and 'Lendel >had the same "spirit", it used the 'Lendel mask in Vanyels dream. What she said. Also, Van was feeling some guilt over whether he was betraying 'Lendel's memory, IIRC. Therefore, it "had" to be 'Lendel telling him that it was all right for Van to love Stef. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Melvin -- the "threeway lifebond" referred to in AotQ (Keren, Ylsa, & Sherril) would probably have occurred even if Ylsa had not died. Sherril had been showing signs of being lifebonded to Keren, and possibly Ylsa as well -- signs that both Talia and Keren&Ylsa had picked up. So that particular case does not rule out the suggestion that reincarnation is the only way second lifebonds can happen. IOW, the lifebond shared by Keren/Ylsa/Sherril doesn't really fall in the category of a "second" lifebond, in the sense of "one partner is dead; surviving partner bonds to someone new," because Sherril wasn't a "replacement" but an "addition" to the bond. Wind to thy wings, sibs! Kara "So many books, so little time" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 16:23:18 -0500 From: "Fawcett, Erika" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: dragons, another short post Message-ID: <199703262123.QAA20520-+AT+-postoffice.onu.edu> At 20:28 3/26/97 GMT, the Eternally Nourished Lee, Lady Knight of the OAM and OOPS, Spreader of Humor, Self-Appointed User of 5-point Vocabulary Words Such As "Panegyric" wrote: >Wyvern wrote: >> Anyway, I don't think any wyverns ever did show up in the Velgarth books, >> except as mythical references, such as in Orthallen's standard. So perhaps >> this could be their equivalent of dragons. Just because some of our mythical >> animals show up in Velgarth, doesn't mean all of them do... > >But maybe the Valdemarans only *think* they're myths...after all, a lot of >them thought gryphons were just myths until Treyvan & Hydona showed up. According to The Encyclopedia of Things That Never Were (Not the be all and end all of sources, but a reasonable proximally) Wyverns are subspecies of of the British Dragon (D.albionensis) known as the Firedrake, having only two legs. I don't think they are quite they same as Lackey's wyverns, cross between a hound and a snake was the official description I think? They do have the hunting instinct of dragons or serpents, but not alot of other dragonish characteristics (hoarding of treasure, wings/flight, fiery breath, living solitary, medically useful bodies). IMO, wyverns are probably a cross between snakes and hounds in the same way Gryphons are a cross between cats and raptors. Magically inhanced, of course. I'd much rather meet a gryphon than a wyvern in a dark alley though :) Draconic grins to everybody, (I love the chance to use my most beloved hoard of books!) ---Erika "Now I know I could have walked through the walls." --The Last Unicorn ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 05:18:51 -0500 From: Cristilyn Lawton To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: dragons, another short post Message-ID: <3338F80B.6AC2-+AT+-mindspring.com> It was wyrsa that were a cross between hounds and snakes, not wyverns! ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1150 **********************************