MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1166

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Mage Gift and pregnancy
	by "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Familia_Rinc=F3n_Parra?=" <rinparra-+AT+-sol.racsa.co.cr>
  2) Re: Vanyel's Bardic Gifts, age of characters, etc.
	by "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Familia_Rinc=F3n_Parra?=" <rinparra-+AT+-sol.racsa.co.cr>
  3) RE: OneTrueWay/Listmail/
	by L Somasundaram <somasun-+AT+-tp.ac.sg>
  4) RE: Vanyel's Bardic Gifts, age of characters, etc.
	by L Somasundaram <somasun-+AT+-tp.ac.sg>
  5) RE: Messages strange are being
	by koren-+AT+-wic.net (Larry Whiteman)
  6) Re: Mage Gift and pregnancy
	by Siobhan McFarland <smcfarl3-+AT+-immaculata.edu>
  7) nosey husband's butting in
	by Mark and Tracy <cook-hansel-+AT+-worldnet.att.net>
  8) Van & Covers / Pregnant Mages.
	by mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing)
  9) Covers of LHM, and bits of FLUFF
	by "Alexandra Y. Kwan" <wkkwan-+AT+-earthlink.net>
 10) braids
	by Shidrati Binte Ali BEMSA <BEMSA-+AT+-ABEM1.NUSSTF.nus.sg>
 11) ADMIN: AOL
	by Melanie Dymond Harper <mel>
 12) NewbieFest
	by Deniz<dsarik-+AT+-po-box.mcgill.ca>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 22:08:30 -0600
From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Familia_Rinc=F3n_Parra?=" <rinparra-+AT+-sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Mage Gift and pregnancy
Message-ID: <199704090401.WAA29563-+AT+-sol.racsa.co.cr>



 Christy said:
 > I don't think Misty ever touched on this subject, but what would 
 > happen to a female Herald with the Mage Gift if she became pregnant?  
 > The Gift can destroy a person's body with all that power flowing 
 > through it...imagine what it would do to an undeveloped baby....so 
 > what would happen if, let's say, Elspeth gets pregnant?
 
Just a thought. Tyledras  children are born  in the vales, right, and the
only thing that happens to them is that living right next to a Heartstone,
they become used to the energies around the vale, and no matter if they use
magic or not, they have a sort of shield around them that keeps them from
getting sick from all the discharge the stone gives. Also, when Darkwind
was born, his mother was a mage, and didn't seem to have trouble giving
birth to him. She also had his brother, I don't recall his name, who didn't
have mage abilities at all. So, my theory goes like this. The mother's body
produces a placenta, a semi permeable membrane, that besides it's
biological functions,  it kind of shields the baby. So the baby is born
normal in every way, except if he just happens to have any gift. I think it
likely, and it would just be something that bodies would do. 

Now this,  If a female mage has a baby,  what are the chances of  him/her
being a mage? Falconsbane depended on having his offspring  have mage gift,
and try to light a fire with it, so he made sure he left his seed
everywhere. Then, Van said in WofFury that  he had made provisions to know
if any of his offspring had something to do with magic, he would know it,
so how did he know if they were going to be mages or not, or was it just a
wild guess. Then, what about all his children, some had mage gift, others
didn't . So what are the chances? just wondering what everyone else thinks
about this.
 Shaina plays tug-o-war with Mica

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 22:14:08 -0600
From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Familia_Rinc=F3n_Parra?=" <rinparra-+AT+-sol.racsa.co.cr>
To: <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Vanyel's Bardic Gifts, age of characters, etc.
Message-ID: <199704090407.WAA00139-+AT+-sol.racsa.co.cr>


Nightsong said:
As for how Van gets the lowlifes of Lineas to leave him alone, I
> always thought that he used his little bit of empathy there...  I could
be
> wrong, but wouldn't he have to be playing/singing some form of music for
it
> to be the Bardic Gift at work?  And I don't recall him doing anything of
> that sort at the time.  Like I said, though, I could be wrong.
 
I've been wondering the same, but in MPromise, Medren is talking to Vanyel
about "Poor Medren for pells", and he is using Bardic Gift. He describes it
something as singing inside your head w/out really singing at all, or
something on that line. So i don't know. You are probably right though, in
that situation it would've been easier to use Empathy. I haven't read the
books in a Loooong time. 
 Shaina and Mica   

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 12:37:14 +0800
From: L Somasundaram <somasun-+AT+-tp.ac.sg>
To: "'mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk'" <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: RE: OneTrueWay/Listmail/
Message-ID: <c=SG%a=_%p=TP%l=STAFF-EXCHANG-970409043714Z-7294-+AT+-STAFF-EXCHANGE.tp.ac.sg>

Hi There!

I accidentally subsribed to this mailing list and am receiving
hundreds of e-mail messages discussing topics which I have
no idea about.

Can you please tell me what list I am in and how I can
unsubscribe?

Thanks a million!


>----------
>From: 	Lydia Hales[SMTP:psu07362-+AT+-odin.cc.pdx.edu]
>Sent: 	Tuesday, April 08, 1997 2:36 AM
>To: 	L Somasundaram
>Subject: 	Re: OneTrueWay/Listmail/
>
>
>
>On Thu, 3 Apr 1997, C M wrote:
>
>> >DISCLAIMER:
>> >
>> >Okay, now please accept that this is just my opinion, I'm not directing
>>this
>> >at anyone, or any religion, any group of religions, and group of
>> >people/animals/lifeforms or whatever. I just happen to like discussing
>> >beliefs in abstract, but if you feel you will be offended please trash
>>this
>> >note now, because that is not my intention. 
>> >
>> >
>> >At 22:13 4/2/97 +0100, Kenneth wrote:
>> >>  BTW, sorry to raise the spector of religion again, but
>> >>this always struck me as similar to the admonition in many Christian
>> >>denominations that you shouldn't pray for a particular outcome.  You
>> >>should simply pray for God's will to be done.  The reasoning was along
>>the
>> >>same lines: how can mortals know the mind of the divine?  And what if the
>> >>outcome you are praying for goes against some part of divine will?
>>>
>>> THere is an essay by Samuel Clemens (Mark Twain) that explores the 
>issue of praying for victory in war.  It's called _War Prayer_.  It is 
>setduring the Civil War in the U.S.  A preacher is praying for victory in 
>war when an old, old man shows up, and explains the prayer behind the 
>prayer.  If you like this sort of thought provoking writing, I recommend 
>reading this.  It's printed in _The Norton Anthology_.
>
>
>My personal beliefs on this is that one should pray for God's will to be 
>done, and not knowingly pray for anything that would harm another.  It's 
>interesting, though, if you read the Old Testament, the number of wars 
>that Israel was involved in, that God not only supported, but helped thme 
>to victory.
>
>Lady Lydia
>psu07362-+AT+-odin.cc.pdx.edu
>

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 13:02:43 +0800
From: L Somasundaram <somasun-+AT+-tp.ac.sg>
To: "'mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk'" <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Vanyel's Bardic Gifts, age of characters, etc.
Message-ID: <c=SG%a=_%p=TP%l=STAFF-EXCHANG-970409050243Z-7573-+AT+-STAFF-EXCHANGE.tp.ac.sg>

Hi There!

I accidentally subsribed to this mailing list and am receiving
hundreds of e-mail messages discussing topics which I have
no idea about.

Can you please tell me what list I am in and how I can
unsubscribe?

Thanks a million!

>----------
>From: 	Familia Rinc=F3n Parra[SMTP:rinparra-+AT+-sol.racsa.co.cr]
>Sent: 	Wednesday, April 09, 1997 12:58 PM
>To: 	L Somasundaram
>Subject: 	Re: Vanyel's Bardic Gifts, age of characters, etc.
>
>
>Nightsong said:
>As for how Van gets the lowlifes of Lineas to leave him alone, I
>> always thought that he used his little bit of empathy there...  I =
could
>be
>> wrong, but wouldn't he have to be playing/singing some form of music =
for
>it
>> to be the Bardic Gift at work?  And I don't recall him doing anything =
of
>> that sort at the time.  Like I said, though, I could be wrong.
>=20
>I've been wondering the same, but in MPromise, Medren is talking to =
Vanyel
>about "Poor Medren for pells", and he is using Bardic Gift. He =
describes it
>something as singing inside your head w/out really singing at all, or
>something on that line. So i don't know. You are probably right though, =
in
>that situation it would've been easier to use Empathy. I haven't read =
the
>books in a Loooong time.=20
> Shaina and Mica  =20
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 23:12:55 -0600
From: koren-+AT+-wic.net (Larry Whiteman)
To: "'mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk'" <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Messages strange are being
Message-ID: <01BC4473.CD04C160-+AT+-term_16.wic.net>


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That was highly uncalled for.

You are not in the "Hood" talking to you "Bro's", so keep the language =
to the level that is exceptible to all.[[ APEND.DOC : 1281 in =
WINMAIL.DAT ]]

----------
From: 	Unbreak my heart ...[SMTP:qluu-+AT+-polaris.umuc.edu]
Sent: 	Monday, April 07, 1997 10:22 PM
To: 	koren-+AT+-wic.net
Subject: 	Re: Messages strange are being

THIS MAILING SHIT IS OUT OF ORDER, TAKE ME OFF THE FUCKING LIST PEOPLE

GET A FUCKING LIFE AND STOP SENDING MESSAGE OUT TO ME


-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
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ttkHis -- -Di theo tie^'ng go.i cu?a con tim
http://www.gomer.ml.org./~ttkh
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 01:29:01 -0500
From: Siobhan McFarland <smcfarl3-+AT+-immaculata.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Mage Gift and pregnancy
Message-ID: <199704090629.BAA14274-+AT+-glic>

 Shaina, while playing tug-o-war with Mica, wrote--

>Now this,  If a female mage has a baby,  what are the chances of  him/her
>being a mage? . . . Then, Van said in WofFury that  he had made provisions
to .know if any of his offspring had something to do with magic, he would
know it,
>so how did he know if they were going to be mages or not, or was it just a
>wild guess. Then, what about all his children, some had mage gift, others
>didn't . So what are the chances? just wondering what everyone else thinks
>about this.

Do they have Punnet squares in Valdemar?  But seriously, it seems that it
would work just like any other inheirited trait.  You know--blue eyes, white
hair ... So I guess it would also have something to do with who the other
parent was.  If you're two mages, would that increase your chances of having
a little mage?

And how about this?  Would a pregnant mage's baby have really good
protections against illnesses/defects/etc?  Magic *is* power.  And that
power gets channeled through the mage's body.  Perhaps it loses any adverse
effects because it is manipulated by the mage.   The magic is controlled,
just like in a Vale.  I wonder if a dormant mage would have more trouble
with this, since she wouldn't be *using* the power, and so not transforming it.

Wind to thy wings,
Siobhan


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 23:11:44 -0700
From: Mark and Tracy <cook-hansel-+AT+-worldnet.att.net>
To: Lackey list <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: nosey husband's butting in
Message-ID: <334B3320.2CF2-+AT+-worldnet.att.net>

This is Mark, Tracy's husband. I read her mail <shame!> but the 
discussions are interesting. I am reading 'children of the night', the 
only ML book so far but since I have only read eight or so 'pleasure 
books' in my life, that makes it somewhat special.

In ref to pregnancy and magic:
The body does miraculous things during pregnancy, (we have a 7 mo boy). 
Perhapse a mage's inate magical ability automatically protects the baby, 
not allowing energy beyond what the baby could take. Kind of like the 
theory that morning sickness prevents a woman from eating foods that 
might harm the baby. Or the womans body might channel the energy around 
the fetus like a car will if struck by lightning, protecting the people 
inside. Just my op.

By the way Deniz, Why do I keep finding books under my pillow?

Cuddley sheep to you all,
Mark

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Apr 97 17:14:17 EST
From: mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com (Kerry Mealing)
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Van & Covers / Pregnant Mages.
Message-ID: <9704090714.AA05383-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com>


Hi all,

Delurking briefly..

Christy said:
> Okay here is the thing. I have something else for everyone to think=20
> about that kind of goes on with the age thing.  The way Van looks on=20
> the cover's of the books. 
<snip>
> But here is the problem, at least=20
> for me, MPrice.  On the cover he looks like he did on MPawn.  He=20
> looks younger less of the confident and strong Van that is on the=20
> cover of MPromise.  He doesn't look as lost and fragile on MPrice as=20
> he did on MPawn but there is just not the same as MPromise.  Is it=20
> just me or does someone else see it too?? What are your thoughts on=20
> this?? What do you think the reason is?? This has bothered me for=20
> awhile so I am very curious to get your ideas.

I'd always thought that the covers on those books were brilliant. On the 
cover of MPrice we're shown Van in his final moments - he's fought three 
wizards - hence the slightly scorched and raggedy look and he's standing 
with Yfandes in the freezing cold about to call down the Final Strike to 
take his worst enemy.  
No, he doesn't look confident and strong.. to me he looks resolute.
He -knows- he's going to die, he -knows- he can't win any other way and
he knows he can -just- manage it by sacrificing both his life and Yfandes,
which will leave Stefan to live without him.
In a very real sense, his nightmare of ice and dying alone and unmourned 
is almost coming true. He's not full of hate, he's not after revenge, or 
burning with righteous fire. He's cold, and he's deadly tired and he's 
got to make one last wild effort. 
But on the other side of things, his heart-mate is by his side and he 
knows he can take Leareth down, and he has that serenity of inevitability
about him that can so easily make people look young.


Re Pregnant Mages:
It is a very real danger I'd suspect, if the babe doesn't have the mage
gift. The Tayledras would no doubt come across the problem a lot, but they,
as I've said before, have been genetically modified by the Star-Eyed so
that they can live in the proximity of so much magic, so they're safe.
I suspect that normal mages would either shield their babe (which 
presupposes that they know they're pregnant early in their term) or 
that the babe is naturally shielded somehow by the body of the mother..
The White Winds mages must have this problem, so there must be some way
of dealing with it, without restraining from using magic at all. (They
may well refrain from doing major workings during the pregnancy though).

Cheers,
Kerry. <mealink-+AT+-syd.au.swissbank.com>










------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 02:37:47 -0700
From: "Alexandra Y. Kwan" <wkkwan-+AT+-earthlink.net>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Covers of LHM, and bits of FLUFF
Message-ID: <334B6369.409F-+AT+-earthlink.net>

To me, Van always look too old on the cover of MPawn.  The guy on the
cover looks at least twenty, four yr older than Van's real age.  Also, I
am always a bit unhappy that Van never got the bleached hair he is
suppose to have.  He does look young on cover of MPrice.  But I don't
mind.  Someone (sorry, don't know name) said he look resolute, and I
disagree.  With mouth tight as one line, set jaw, looking serene and
very sad might  have done the job, but this cover didn't.  I am not
really complaining.  The artist is very good at the art.  Yfandes is
very, very good. but I wish...  And the synopsis on the back cover...  I
wish it could be more, oh, accurate to the books...
	Does anyone know who do the art on the covers of the paperbacks and
hardcovers of Gael Baudino (sp?)?  I think the artist is great!  I love
his/her work.  And the coverart of Snow White, Blood (?) Red (collection
of modern fairytales, editor Ellen Daltow (sp?)) and others in the
series is excellent, too.  Same artist as coverart of Gael Baudino??

from little alex

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Apr 97 18:22:00 PDT
From: Shidrati Binte Ali BEMSA <BEMSA-+AT+-ABEM1.NUSSTF.nus.sg>
To: mercedes-lackey <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: braids
Message-ID: <334C4298-+AT+-nusnetgw1.nus.sg>


Hi everybody,

This is the first time I try to braid. Sorry if I go about it wrongly.

****************************************************************************  
*******
Texie said : Kestral, to fully answer your questions on Iftel, you have to 
read
_Storm Breaking_

Ok I'll wait to read the book. Anyone knows when it will be out for 
SIngapore's distribution. I've been waiting half a year since Storm Rising.

****************************************************************************  
*******
On the subject of Grove Born Companions, I get these views :

1. No one is quiet sure but i think they come from one of the plains that 
the
higher spirits come from.  I think somewere in Oathbound or Oathbreakers
Kethry mentions  some thing about it. . . anyone know what it was called?

2. The Tayledras seem to treat the Companions like Avatars of a sort when
Elspeth and Skif first arrive at k'Sheyna in WofFate. The Companions have
souls like any other being, and Grove-born Companion's souls would most
likely be directly from wherever souls start out in Misty's world.

3. Still, I think the Monarch's Own Companion may have an extra "edge" in
wisdom to begin with -- something more than Gwena got.  Maybe the two are
roughly equivalent to angel and archangel, with the Monarch's Own Companion
having more power, insight, and divine direction than Gwena does.  Or
perhaps the Monarch's Own Companion, when killed, almost instantly
reincarnates as the next Monarch's Own Companion.  If it were the same
spirit, over and over, acting in that capacity, that would certainly
account for both the sense of wisdom I get from Rolan, and the deep respect
accorded him by other Companions.

4. with the Grove-Born, and especially the Monarch's Own Companion, they are 
able to "access" knowledge and wisdom far beyond their own experience.

Hhmm...If I remember from the Arrows trilogy, they did have a prologue of 
how Valdermar started. King Valdermar prayed to the Gods to help ensure his 
kingdom does not fall into the wrong hands. That was how the first Grove 
Born Companions came about. Yep, it could really be that these Companions 
are Avatars just like the Firecats are Avatars of the SunGod. That would 
also explain why they have access to "knowledge and wisdom far beyond their 
own experience". But question is which of the Gods send them down. Valdermar 
was a land where there are many religions including the religion of the 
One(Mero's religion, I think which is mentioned in the Arrows of the Queen).

****************************************************************************
Talking about Van's & Skif's age, have anyone tried to work out Elspeth's 
age by the end of WoFury and what about the twins and Jeremy (Talia's son)?

****************************************************************************
Jaguar wrote:
        Sun and Shadow is a very old story. For those who've been around a
while.. remember the discussion about the movie Ladyhawke? Ladyhawke tells
the same story.. as a child I grew up on a book "Son of the Day and
Daughter of the Night". With a bit of a stretch, you could even say Romeo
and Juliet tells the same story. Not too surprising Tolkien told that tale
too.... <blink> Mrh. Unconscious alliteration..


Yep, seen the movie three times. A good movie that one. But what makes Sun 
and Shadow special is that Misty hinted in her books that  they weren't 
human but spirits (does anyone know whether this is true) but they helped to 
safe a king and became Heralds. I really would like to read their story if 
Misty ever come about to write about them.
*********************************

No offence, but I think I agree that Misty might have made a mistake with 
Van's gifts.

************************************

Well that's all from me for today. Server's slow.

Wind to thy Wings.
Kestrel

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 13:08:11 +0100 (BST)
From: Melanie Dymond Harper <mel>
To: mercedes-lackey
Subject: ADMIN: AOL
Message-ID: <199704091208.NAA25599-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk>

Any AOL folks who are getting mail in fits and starts, please have words with
the technical folks there; the servers that accept mail for AOL users from
the rest of the world have been refusing connections for several sessions of  
hours at a time over the last few days. Nothing I can do about it except
watch the mail pile up here and occasionally try to force it through.

Mel

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 09 Apr 97 07:09:12 -0500
From: Deniz<dsarik-+AT+-po-box.mcgill.ca>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: NewbieFest
Message-ID: <199704091215.IAA21537-+AT+-sirocco.CC.McGill.CA>

Okay, I've been having more puter problems, (not to mention finding out I 
got unsubscribed again, sigh) and I *just* managed to get back together and 
working again (these are just extensions of my old problems, fixing bugs I 
didn't notice then), so I'm not quite sure what the latest topics of 
discussion are.  However, I've gotten private requests to repost the 
NewbieFest, so here goes.

The NewbieFest is intended for those who are new to the list so you can 
figure out the protocol we have established over our many years of 
existence.  I know this sounds kinda funny because lately, the oldbies have 
been lurking and the newbies have been talking up a storm, but there *are* 
over 300 oldbies, and this current situation won't last long, so please do 
pay attention.

All you newbies... if you have questions, odds are it's 
answered in here.  There is recommended reading material... please do 
read them.  Warning, this is a long document, so if you have to keep online 
time to a minimum, please just save this and *read it* all the way through!

Here's a quick table of contents for what's included in this 
NewbieFest.

 - How do I get the FAQ?
 - Gods and Goddesses, Clergy, Knights and Dames, and other Assorted 
Titles
 - All those funny abreviations
 - Sheep
 - Birthdays
 - Braiding
 - Why are people yelling at me? or Sure-Fire Ways to Get Flamed or 
Really Annoying Things

EVERYBODY KEEPS TELLING ME TO READ THE FAQ.  WHERE IS IT?  HOW DO I 
GET IT?

There are a few different ways to get this valuable document.  By 
mail, FTP, or the web.  Jake is busily working on upgrading it, so 
someday it'll be even longer and more extensive... until then, I'll 
keep posting this NewbieFest.
  I'm now quoting from the FAQ, itself.

mail: send mail to listproc-+AT+-herald.co.uk, with a blank Subject: line, 
and
      message body:

        get mercedes-lackey lackey_faq.1
        get mercedes-lackey lackey_faq.2
        get mercedes-lackey lackey_faq.3
        get mercedes-lackey lackey_faq.4
        get mercedes-lackey lackey_faq.5

This will send the FAQ to you, in 5 separate messages.

FTP: ftp://ftp.herald.co.uk/pub/lists/lackey-archives/

HTTP: http://www.herald.co.uk/local_info/lackey_faq.html

There's also something really helpful called "Auntie Mel's Rules of 
Thumb."  Unfortunately that isn't available as its own seperate e-mail 
message.  You can get it by going to the web-site that's the home of 
this list, and either read it online, or better yet, save it for 
future reference.  Actually, you can also get the digest it was 
reposted in most recently by e-mail.  So, here are the two methods:

HTTP: http://www.herald.co.uk/local_info/rules_thumb.html

e-mail: send a message to listproc-+AT+-herald.co.uk with a blank subject 
and a body:

	get listproc/mercedes-lackey 970322-1144

It should be message:
>  7) ADMIN: Auntie Mel's Rules of Thumb
>	by Melanie Dymond Harper <mel>

Seeing as this is really easy to do, please just hit compose, switch 
between windows, and copy and paste the relevant lines into your 
message.  Copy and past the address, and send off your message.  While 
you're waiting, go on and finish up the rest of the NewbieFest.  
Within around 20 minutes (at the *most*) you should have all the 
documentation you requested.  Take the time to read it and mull it 
over.  If you pay per byte of e-mail, then visit the URL's listed 
above, or use the FTP process.  Any way you slice the cake, you ought 
to read these things as they're here to help you out.

EVERYBODY SEEMS TO BE GOD OR GODDESS OF SOMETHING.  HOW CAN I BECOME 
DIVINE?
Cennydd, once again, eloquently stated:
>>There has been a decided upswing in the use of faux divinity on the 
list recently.  Remember that Lady Thess is the only one who can 
actually name a god or goddess on the list (She is the Goddess of 
Nomenclature).  Unless she names someone to be her avatar in her 
absence (she seems to have disappeared into the obscurity of 
work-induced lurkerdom), everyone will just have to wait until she 
gets around to a Naming.  Until that time, it is customary to use
"soon-to-be (I hope)" in front of any godhood that your have 
requested.<<

Actually, Cennydd has been named her Avatar until she may return.  
Please send your requests for Divinity to him off-list.  If there is a 
conflict of overlapping domains, he will so inform you.  He's also a 
wonderful guy, and you really shouldn't be scared of him.  I've been 
on the list for almost four months, and the one flame I saw him write 
was while I was gone (had to trawl the archives for that one), and the 
flamee enjoyed the experience (after she got over the initial shock).

However, clergy may be appointed by already official Gods and 
Goddesses.  Just apply to the God or Goddess whom you think you would 
serve best, either on list or off list (depending on how fluffy your 
post already is), and leave it in their capable hands.

Becoming a Demon is something that you just do, I suppose.  Well, 
Wintershard always was Demon of Crappy Weather... I, on the other 
hand, had people move and second said motion that I become Demon of 
Deceitful Aliases.  I didn't ask for the honor, but since it was so 
moved and accepted...

KNIGHTS AND DAMES, LADIES, CHAMPIONS, AND OOoUL/L, AND OTHER ASSORTED 
TITLES

Hookay, I had to go archive trawling, and here's what I came up with.

Mishi said:
>>Let's see we have different groups on the list (Ladies in Green, Cat 
People, Ones in Black, and Men in White) that sprang up when the 
Magewar started. Magewar is a seperate list that a lot of memebers of 
this list are also on. If you want to know more ask 
[Jaguar<rholsen-+AT+-sidwell.edu>].<<

Firemist said:
>>	Ladies of the Pink Wand (LotPW) are women cursed with falling 
in love with gay men. "The best men are either gay, dead, or 
fictional. The best (Vanyel) is all three." We have Champions, 
Redcaps, fire-breathing badgers, Wand-sworn, virtual kittens, non-stop 
chocolate, [and OoUL/L - Objects of Unrequited Love/Lust] and lots of 
fun. email Lilac at LilacFairy-+AT+-aol.com for more info.<<

The Order of Amber and Marigold is one that protects Vanyel from 
accusations that he is whiny, self-absorbed, etc.  In order to join, 
choose whether you'd prefer to be a Knight or a Dame (gender doesn't 
matter), promise Heather (Hth) (the Grand Dame of the OoAM) you'll 
uphold the creed of the OoAM, and just put it in your sig.  We're a 
non-profit group, so no brib... er, gifts are neccessary.

There're also a few new groups forming... there's the Gsuilsd of 
Tyeposists, apply to Liseth for more info... and there's the Order of 
Putzer Servants (OOPS), for people who make completely boneheaded chess 
moves 
or win by complete flukes which you could not recreate, and apply to 
ShadowWolf <brianben-+AT+-erinet.com> for more info.

IMHO, YMMV, CMIIW, AFAICR, JUST WHAT DO THEY MEAN?

I'll quote directly from Stormwind, who is the maintainer of the list's 
abbreviation
list.

Stormwind said:
>>Abrev. list is available. This list has most of the common abrev. used on
this list. List-sibs who need a copy of this list, please mail me privately
at: chenchen-+AT+-rgs.edu.sg , keeping the subject as "Abrev. list". You will
recieve the list before three days is up.<<

WHY IS EVERYONE OBSESSED WITH SHEEP?????<-----(and what's with 
counting ?'s and !'s?)

Okay, here's what Ele had to say about this:
>>First of all, an all-time best-seller among newbies. The sheep 
thingy.  You will notice people offering each other sheep (chocolate 
covered, something or other flavored, etc), and also saying things 
like "sheeps behind someone or other" Well, the sheep thingy has 2 
parts and both are humorous and in some aspects a bit bawdy. I will 
transcribe what was explained to me by Nightshade, who in turn got it 
from Mel......
   
Sheep Explanation:
>>The sheep thing started when Lady 'Reesa started signing off as 
(among other things) "Queen of Everything and Close Personal Friend of 
Many Sheep". People started making sheep jokes... sheep-and-kilt 
jokes... sheep-and-Aussie jokes... etc and so forth.  'Reesa made the 
most jokes, of course! Then somebody (don't ask me who, if 'Reesa ever 
mentioned names I don't remember them) sent 'Reesa some really nasty 
private e-mail in which they said her sheep jokes were disgusting, she 
was warped, she was a corrupting influence, stuff like that. (Hey, *I* 
thought the jokes were funny! They weren't that bad, she was just 
making comments about sheep being warm on a cold night, they don't 
snore, etc...) Understandably, she was upset, and complained on-list; 
everybody said they didn't see anything wrong with the jokes, and the 
sheep were here to stay. Then when Lady Thessaly set up as Goddess of 
Nomenclature and started naming people as Gods and Goddesses, of 
course everybody gave tithes when they asked to be Named, and a lot of 
the tithes were sheep. (Chocolate-covered sheep, sheep-shaped 
chocolates, sheep-flavoured chocolates - that one made me look twice! 
- spun-sugar sheep, and just plain sheep.) Most recently, somebody got 
tired of using <g,d,rlh  when they said something that was likely to 
draw a barrage of homing coconuts or a flame (grin, duck, run like 
hell), so they said they were tired of "duck"ing and started 
"sheep"ing instead. Now people sheep, hide behind sheep, disguise 
themselves as sheepdogs... somebody found a sheep site on the 
Internet... it goes on!<<<<

About the notes pointing to how many exclamation marks or question 
marks a person uses?  If I remember correctly, it's a Pterri thang. 
(Pterri is Terri Pratchett's nickname in case you were wondering)

BIRTHDAYS
I'm (Deniz) managing a birthday list.  I'll give 2-day warnings as to
whose birthday is coming up along with how old they'll be turning
(optional) and their private e-mail (optional).  If you see this last
option, that means that if you were going to post a one-liner b-day
message -- don't.  Send it private. If I don't put it up (and I won't
unless it is sent to me in the body of the message, honor and all), 
then BRAID your good wishes and "gifts" into your post.

Ele's note: you will find that we give each other all sorts of
magical artifacts as B-day gifts. Just join in the fun. We are after 
all readers of fantasy, so what did you expect from us? ;)

BRAIDING

Okay, there seems to be a lot of debate on this topic.  Basically, the 
reason braids were invented was because too many one-liners and 
similarly short posts will cause Vanyel (the listprocesser) to break 
down.  However, the problem with braids is that sometimes they get too 
long and make people feel like  they're reading digests.  Basically, 
if you're going to write a one-liner, either don't, incorporate it 
into another message, or send it private.  If you want to respond to 
several posts on the same topic then please BRAID.  It is really 
irritating to see several short messages by one person in a row on the 
same topic.  It's so much easier to have them all together.  However, 
some people don't like braids because they can grow to epic 
proportions, often covering more than 10 topics and easily take 1000 
bytes of memory-- not fun.  But there are reasons for this latter type 
of braid, as well.  Some people only write once a day, but contribute 
to many of the discussions... so rather than respond to each seperate 
message seperately, or seperate the different topics for different 
braids, they combine it to form a mega braid.

If you want more arguments for braids, write to:
	Emily the Invisible <ecartier-+AT+-geocities.com> or
	Cennydd <kenny-+AT+-UDel.Edu>
If you want more arguments against braids, write to:
	Tensen <tensen-+AT+-crow.cybercomm.net> or
	Jerry Cullingford <jc-+AT+-crosfield.co.uk>

If you would like instructions for how to braid, find your server and 
contact these wonderful volunteers(remember, cut and paste :)):
PINE		David Tiffany <davidt-+AT+-cet.com>
		Cennydd <kenny-+AT+-UDel.Edu>
Eudora Light	Emily the invisible <ecartier-+AT+-geocities.com>
Pegasus		Emily the invisible <ecartier-+AT+-geocities.com>
		Vrondi <vrondi-+AT+-juno.com> (DOS and Windows)
Netscape	Eleonora
		Vrondi <vrondi-+AT+-juno.com>
Juno		Vrondi <vrondi-+AT+-juno.com>
AOL		Lady Silvermoon <Soljan-+AT+-aol.com>
Spry		Deniz Sarikaya <dsarik-+AT+-PO-Box.McGill.Ca>
Hotmail		Nobody yet, but they seem to be having lots of 	
	technical problems.
Not Listed?  state your server on list and we'll see what we can do.

If you would like instructions on how *not* to braid, write:
	Tensen <tensen-+AT+-crow.cybercomm.net>

SURE-FIRE WAYS TO GET FLAMED
Ele's note: Cennydd is our resident linguist as well as Mage of Green
Silences and God of Karma. He is by popular acclaim our defender 
against those who advertently or inadvertently waste bandwidth, and 
will normally pay them a private visit (i.e. email). In some cases, 
his well-intentioned, semihumorous flames are public (as in Aistes's 
case).  He is also a great guy and we love him very much, so don't get 
the impression that he is some kind of monster who will flame whoever 
steps marginally out of line. He will not. He is very tolerant, and 
anyway if you get flamed by him, I would suggest your enjoying it. 
Most list members treasure his flames ;) 

In the Mage's own words:
>>Also, several people (I won't name names because you will know who 
you are) are on the list of Soon To Be Drifting Ashes.  Please, snip 
and braid, or the list becomes unmanageable, Auntie Mel becomes testy, 
and I become downright bitchy (as list-members will attest, I am 
sure).  BTW, in case you are not familiar with the terms: snip means 
to delete the quoted material in a response that is not relevant to 
the response.  Braiding is when you combine responses to several 
postings in one message.  A rule of thumb is "your quoted material 
should never be longer than your response."  Another rule of thumb is 
"One-liners are *EVIL*!" [emphasis mine].  BTW, in case you are 
wondering how to join the Drifting Ashes, just post a response with 2 
or more pages of quotation and less than one screen of response 
commentary.  That generally will get the job done. =)

I am not going to say that TINAF, because that would be obviously 
misleading.  Rather, this is a friendly shot across the bow with a 
high-powered blow-dryer.  Real flaming will be done on an individual 
basis in the privacy of your own home. =)<<

We [Ele speaking] couldn't say it better ourselves.  And I, for one, 
won't try, because I don't think my asbestos will last an assault from 
Cennydd, because I'm sure he doesn't fight with just fire.

Oh, and Cennydd also added this bit recently:
>>Learn to freaking spell!<<

I'd just like to point out that I know *my* e-mail client (SPRY) has a 
spell-checker.  Why don't you check yours out?  The extra time would be 
worth it in the heightened communication.

SOME REALLY ANNOYING THINGS

Fluff: Fluff is basically what it sounds like... this is a Mercedes 
Lackey Discussion List.  Fluff is anything that is not Misty related. 
 If we had no fluff at all on this list, we'd be bored silly.  If we 
had too much fluff, though... we'd wonder why this list is called 
mercedes-lackey and not just something like good-times (the virus does 
NOT exist!  You can't get a virus by reading a text-based e-mail 
message!!!!!).  It's actually because of fluff that we had two new groups 
formed.  These would be the Lilac Fairy's Bower and the Mage Wars.

ONE-LINERS: As we've said before, and will probably say forever, one 
liners are annoying.  Also, they give Vanyel (the list server) fits, 
and make him break down.  It's like getting a letter in the mail 
consisting of a slip of paper saying, "Hi!  Write me!  Bye!" or 
something inane like that.

PUBLIC/PRIVATE MESSAGES: Many times, I find myself reading a message 
from a newbie, and wondering if they had wanted to send it private 
mail, and that they should have done so.  Remember, because this is a 
discussion list, when you hit reply, your message will automatically 
be addressed to the Misty List.  If you want to send a private message 
but want to use the text from their message, just delete the List's 
address and write in the person's address into the To: line.

SPOILERS:  Remember to use spoilers, please... currently, Storm 
Breaking, Fire Bird, and Sword of Ice are in spoilers.  If you want to 
ask about them, either write a seperate message with SPOILER in the 
title, and the name of which book.  If it's in a post, please put it 
at the end, because many people will, upon encountering a spoiler, 
disregard the rest of the message.  Besides, it's the polite thing to 
do.

remember, sometimes you're gonna feel out of it when someone cracks an 
in-joke... don't worry we were all newbies once.  If you're ever 
confused, offended, or anything else, just write whoever affected you 
that way, and they'll probably take the time to explain what they 
meant, and to help you out.  If you're having problems, look for the 
people who have stuff like "official welcoming committee member" in 
their sig and write them... they're begging to help you out.  See?  
That was painless, wasn't it?

Oh, yeah... yes, Savil (Van's teacher) was reincarnated as Sayvil 
(Kero's companion).

By the way, in case you didn't get this before, welcome to the 
insani... er, fun!  Enjoy yourselves, please.

love,
Deniz Sarikaya, High Priestess of  |  Confused about anything on this list?
Procrastination, Holy Custodian of | Mail me and ask for the NewbieFest!
the B-Day List, Dame of the OoAM,  | "I have a bucket and three baseball
and Demon of Deceitful Aliases.    | bats." -- 3rd Rock From the Sun
      >dsarik-+AT+-PO-Box.McGill.CA< >freakola-+AT+-geocities.com<
         >http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/9359/<


<----  End Forwarded Message  ---->

love,
Deniz Sarikaya, High Priestess of  |  Confused about anything on this list?
Procrastination, Holy Custodian of | Mail me and ask for the NewbieFest!
the B-Day List, Dame of the OoAM,  | "I have a bucket and three baseball
and Demon of Deceitful Aliases.    | bats." -- 3rd Rock From the Sun
      >dsarik-+AT+-PO-Box.McGill.CA< >freakola-+AT+-geocities.com<
         >http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/9359/<

------------------------------

End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1166
**********************************