MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1169 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: answers with no questions. by "JAIME HATHAWAY" 2) Re: answers with no questions. by Chris & Sean Talbot 3) braid: answers with no questions/kestra'chern by smch-+AT+-juno.com (Staci Michele Carina Hempfling) 4) RE: braid: answers with no questions/kestra'chern by Shidrati Binte Ali BEMSA 5) Re: braid: answers with no questions/kestra'chern by Elisiande-+AT+-aol.com 6) Re: braid: answers with no questions/kestra'chern by Kehinde-+AT+-aol.com 7) Re: braid: answers with no questions/kestra'chern by Kehinde-+AT+-aol.com 8) Braid:Chosen/ Alberich/Hearald-Mages by FireWurm-+AT+-aol.com 9) Choosing or not by MorningStar 10) Re: Braid:Chosen/ Alberich/Hearald-Mages by cjkocher-+AT+-spectra.net ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 09:58:41 CST From: "JAIME HATHAWAY" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: answers with no questions. Message-ID: <5C0B487014-+AT+-future.judson.edu> In the > beginning Elspeth was looking for a mage to teach the Heralds that would > ideally be chosen when they returned to Valdemar. Wait a sec....Heralds are already Chosen....or am I misunderstanding? I read that to mean that she was going to search for Mages that would be Chosen...didn't Gwena say something about being willing/able to pick out the ones with Herald potential or something?....and then would be able to recognize and train the Mage Gift in those already at Haven. Jacquelle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 19:54:12 -0400 From: Chris & Sean Talbot To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: answers with no questions. Message-ID: <199704112354.TAA18709-+AT+-relief.idirect.com> >Wait a sec....Heralds are already Chosen....or am I misunderstanding? > I read that to mean that she was going to search for Mages that >would be Chosen...didn't Gwena say something about being willing/able >to pick out the ones with Herald potential or something?....and then >would be able to recognize and train the Mage Gift in those already >at Haven. >Jacquelle > Jacquelle that is what is meant as far as my interpretation went. I don't have my books with me right now so I can't look it up, but what I remember was she was looking for someone to break the protections or get around them and then train heralds with the mage gifts. What she wanted was somebody like a herald who would be chosen once he came to be shown to the companions. What she wanted was someone like DarkWind. Who I believe could be chosen since he is much like a herald and has even helped to shape Elspeth into what she is now. Aistes ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 17:46:07 PST From: smch-+AT+-juno.com (Staci Michele Carina Hempfling) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: braid: answers with no questions/kestra'chern Message-ID: <19970411.174608.10542.3.smch-+AT+-juno.com> On Sat, 12 Apr 1997 01:05:21 +0100 (BST) Chris & Sean Talbot >What she wanted was someone like DarkWind. Who I believe could >be chosen since he is much like a herald and has even helped to shape >Elspeth into what she is now. >Aistes I, too believe that Darkwind could be a Herald. It makes me wonder why Misty didn't have him be Chosen. ******************************** I hate to say this on the list, especially since I'm a list newbie, but I'm going to say it anyway. (Flame me if you'd like.) Nightdancer has very generously offered to answer any questions that anyone might have about real life kestra'cherns (an offer that I've taken) but has asked that we write to her off the list. HELLO, PEOPLE! Read that again. She has asked that we write to her OFF THE LIST. This ever growing list of ppl who are adding "Me too" to the post that's going around is *really* annoying. Her address is nightdancer-+AT+-hotmail.com . There, I've said it. ******************************** I don't know if this subject has been done to death, so I'll ask: When the alliance was made with Karse, how did the Karsites feel about Alberich? I know that in the books before that alliance he was one of the most hated people in Karse and that they called him The Great Traitor or something like that. Makes me wonder if he's able to go back there if he wants to now or not. ******************************** Okay, for those of you who don't want to read the spoiler about SBreaking, go ahead and go to the next post on the list. Wind to thy wings, Staci smch-+AT+-juno.com S P O I L E R ! Here's a question that I've been wondering about lately: Is Misty going to write a post SBreaking story about the issues she brought up with the new Emperor and Tremaine? To me, that would be the next logical storyline to take up, but I've not heard any rumors to the effect. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Apr 97 09:33:00 PDT From: Shidrati Binte Ali BEMSA To: mercedes-lackey Subject: RE: braid: answers with no questions/kestra'chern Message-ID: <334FB9CF-+AT+-nusnetgw1.nus.sg> Hi again,(how do the Valdermaran greet each other when they meet I wonder or even the Hawkbrothers) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- On Sat, 12 Apr 1997 01:05:21 +0100 (BST) Chris & Sean Talbot >What she wanted was someone like DarkWind. Who I believe could >be chosen since he is much like a herald and has even helped to shape >Elspeth into what she is now. >Aistes I, too believe that Darkwind could be a Herald. It makes me wonder why Misty didn't have him be Chosen. >>I think it is because of his bond with the bondbird. I've not read about any Hawkbrother being Chosen before though there is a case of outsiders becoming a Hawkbrother(Starwind's ashke). So that's my theory anyway. Maybe some of the veterans in this list knows more about this. ******************************** ******************************** I don't know if this subject has been done to death, so I'll ask: When the alliance was made with Karse, how did the Karsites feel about Alberich? I know that in the books before that alliance he was one of the most hated people in Karse and that they called him The Great Traitor or something like that. Makes me wonder if he's able to go back there if he wants to now or not. >>If I'm not wrong, Karal's first reaction to hearing that Alberich will be his teacher showed a typical example of what the Karsite population think of him at first. But in Storm Warning, Ulrich also said that Alberich was the first one they contacted to propose the alliance. So the Son of the Sun trusted him enough.........so maybe, he would be able to go back. Afterall, both sides were now slowly changing their opinion about each other. ********************************** Wind to thy Wings, Kestrel ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 23:33:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Elisiande-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: braid: answers with no questions/kestra'chern Message-ID: <970411233356_-1904421022-+AT+-emout13.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-04-11 22:18:06 EDT, someone writes: << I, too believe that Darkwind could be a Herald. It makes me wonder why Misty didn't have him be Chosen. >> I agree that Darkwind has the requisite personality traits... compassion, loyalty, "inherent goodness," conscience, and need to serve his people. So why wasn't he Chosen? Darkwind isn't Valdemaran, and his first duty isn't to Valdemar, much as he loves Elspeth. He has too many "prior committments" among his own people to have the kind of dedication to Valdemar that being a Herald requires. Besides, maybe Misty didn't want all her heros to become Heralds-- that way she maintains what is special and different about them. As for someone being adopted into the Hawkbrothers, there is a difference between being adopted into a tribe, even a highly selective one, and being Chosen. Question... are you folks getting my posts, or am I so far off base that they aren't worth replying to at all? Insecure Elisiande ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 23:40:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Kehinde-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: braid: answers with no questions/kestra'chern Message-ID: <970411234037_283450560-+AT+-emout09.mail.aol.com> Heyla I think. Or Zhai'hellevah. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 23:48:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Kehinde-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: braid: answers with no questions/kestra'chern Message-ID: <970411234854_82700616-+AT+-emout15.mail.aol.com> Alberitch wasn't Valdemerian and he had no loyalty to Valdemar whatsoever when he was Chosen. That kid in Magic's Promise (I forget the name) didn't even serve in Haven. He ran a kingdom completely outside of Valdemar. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 00:40:14 -0400 (EDT) From: FireWurm-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Braid:Chosen/ Alberich/Hearald-Mages Message-ID: <970412004013_514146810-+AT+-emout04.mail.aol.com> Elisiande said! > Darkwind isn't Valdemaran, and his first duty isn't to Valdemar, much as he > loves Elspeth. He has too many "prior committments" among his own people to > have the kind of dedication to Valdemar that being a Herald requires. > Besides, maybe Misty didn't want all her heros to become Heralds-- that way > she maintains what is special and different about them. As for someone > being > adopted into the Hawkbrothers, there is a difference between being adopted > into a tribe, even a highly selective one, and being Chosen. Yah exactly. . . that would also answere the question of why Karal was not chosen. He cerntenly had all the "right stuff" (to quote a really bad music group) But what about people like Natoli? She certenly could qualify. least i think so. . . _______________________________________________________ Staci said >I don't know if this subject has been done to death, so I'll ask: When >the alliance was made with Karse, how did the Karsites feel about >Alberich? I know that in the books before that alliance he was one of >the most hated people in Karse and that they called him The Great >Traitor or something like that. Makes me wonder if he's able to go back >there if he wants to now or not. Actualy i think there was something to the efect of, he was the one who whent down there as an envoy and all and that he spoke to them first for Seleney. . . I remeber a part of the book in which Karal meats him, thinking he is "THE GREAT TRAITOR" and finds out that he is really not a half bad guy. . . i would think though that on the whole the Karsites would still think of him as such. . . that is thouse who really have little to do with the alience. ___________________________________________________________ I know that some questions about the Herald Mage thing was going around. . . i think what everyone is forgeting is that the Vrondi surch for magery, not mages, untill you are activly doing magic they will not notice you. Helga was a mage, an Adept in fact and she managed to get by by not doing mage craft. . . so given all this and given that an untrained mage with a Campanion is not likly to be using thier power. . . i would say that yes there can be hearald mages. . . untrained but definitly mages who are hearalds. . . Zhai'hellava Stallion ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 23:50:09 -0600 From: MorningStar To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Choosing or not Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970411235009.006a6b88-+AT+-mail.geocities.com> Stallion said: >Yah exactly. . . that would also answere the question of why Karal was not >chosen. He cerntenly had all the "right stuff" (to quote a really bad music >group) But what about people like Natoli? She certenly could qualify. least >i think so. . . To add my two cents' to the thread... The way I see it, one of the requirements for being a Herald would have to be that the person not be needed more elsewhere. Darkwind had the responsibility of being an ambassador of sorts for his people. Being chosen probably would have caused more problems than it was worth. He already had a "job" so to speak, he was already trained, and perhaps the Goddess had something to say about it--I don't think that ANY Tayledras or Shin'a'in are very likely to be chosen. If one does, it will probably be a "loner" type, more like Wintermoon than Darkwind, one not vital to the clan--and one who does not really seem to "belong" in the clan. Karal's responsibility is equally important: he is a Priest. Again, a possible case of deity interference. He IS his people's version of Chosen, though, with the Fire Cat around him all the time. Again, something that might keep him from being chosen. People like Natoli, well... Natoli is probably a lot more useful and happier in her current lifestyle, building things, fixing things, inventing things. I also don't think she has much in the way of Gifts, if she even has one--and remember that all Heralds have to have SOME kind of Gift. Karal might barely pass with his channeling ability... At any rate, Natoli will be more useful to her country and Queen as an artificer. I can find TextEvd of a sort for this line of thought...and I will at request. But honestly, do you think she would have been well contented to give up her current life to become a Herald? She doesn't seem to mind much... Yet another reason I think that so many of the main characters have not been chosen although to us they seem to have the characteristics: Perhaps Misty is trying to get through a deeper message. You do not need to be telepathically linked to a intelligent white horselike creature to be worth something and useful in your society. All personalities can contribute to society. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++ Sorry it's not a braid...but that's all I really have to say! MorningStar MorningStar No titles yet... MorningStar-+AT+-poetic.com http://www.geocities.com/Athens/9763 (web page under construction) Books are my life. The printed pages, my very soul. The words, the finest wine, on which I can get drunk...with no hangover! :) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 02:14:10 -0500 From: cjkocher-+AT+-spectra.net To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Braid:Chosen/ Alberich/Hearald-Mages Message-ID: <334F3642.602D-+AT+-spectra.net> Greetings listsibs ... Stallion wrote: > Yah exactly. . . that would also answere the question of why Karal was not > chosen. He cerntenly had all the "right stuff" (to quote a really bad music > group) But what about people like Natoli? She certenly could qualify. least > i think so. . . Karal may have had the qualities found in the Heraldic Circle, but he is a priest. That is why he isn't Chosen ... not necessarily because he isn't from Valdemar. As for why Natoli isn't chosen ... she's intelligent, devoted to her work, and will probably try and do what is right, but this doesn't make her Herald material either. Heralds (if I remember correctly) are utterly devoted to their duty, completely willing to sacrifice themself for good, and selfless to the point of being fanatical. These aren't qualities found in every good person out there. Even Healers, who do just as much good as Heralds, and are every bit as devoted, retain a healthy amoung of selfishness. Also Stallion here... > > i think what everyone is forgeting is that the Vrondi surch for magery, not > mages, untill you are activly doing magic they will not notice you. Helga > was a mage, an Adept in fact and she managed to get by by not doing mage > craft. . . so given all this and given that an untrained mage with a > Campanion is not likly to be using thier power. . . i would say that yes > there can be hearald mages. . . untrained but definitly mages who are > hearalds. . . > The vrondi were set to guard Valdemar's borders by watching for signs of true-magic. If magic was worked, they "flocked" around the mage in question... not to do harm, but simply to watch. If the mage was also a Herald, he/she would give the proper assurances - a password for lack of a better term - to the vrondi and they would go back to their own business. (hrm ... what do little air-sprites do for fun??) Hulda (not Helga) probably didn't work magic, and remained invisible to the eyes of the vrondi. I suspect that a deity had their hand in the lack of active, mage-gifted Heralds ... maybe because the comparisons between Herald-Mages and Heralds was getting out of hand? And those with a some sort of Mage-Gift were probably trained as having Farsight ... like Elspeth was, if I'm correct. Companions may have shielded the mage-gift amongst their chosen, but it is my guess that it just disappeared completely from Valdemar for a while. And when Elspeth returned with other mages, the vrondi had been released from their "duty". This whole paragraph has been more to clarify (and keep me from going insane from boredom) ... to those still with me, thank you for your patience. ;) Crystal ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1169 **********************************