MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1170 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Hearald-Mages by estory-+AT+-shore.net 2) Re: Braid:Chosen/ Alberich/Hearald-Mages by Greg Wooledge 3) Re: Braid:Chosen/ Alberich/Hearald-Mages by "Crystal E. Hewitt" 4) theories... by Elisiande-+AT+-aol.com 5) Re: braid: answers with no questions/kestra'chern by Siobhan McFarland 6) Re: Braid:Chosen/ Alberich/Hearald-Mages by Kehinde-+AT+-aol.com 7) Re: Hearald-Mages by EWBennefeld-+AT+-worldnet.att.net (Healer Althaia) 8) Re: Hearald-Mages by chenchen-+AT+-rgs.edu.sg 9) Re: Braid:Chosen/ Alberich/Hearald-Mages by FireWurm-+AT+-aol.com 10) Re: Hearald-Mages by "CHRISTY GOLDBACH" 11) RE: answers with no questions. by Chris & Sean Talbot ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 13:35:21 +0000 From: estory-+AT+-shore.net To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Hearald-Mages Message-ID: <334F8F99.3B85-+AT+-shore.net> Crystal wrote: > I suspect that a deity had their hand in the lack of > active, mage-gifted Heralds ... maybe because the comparisons between > Herald-Mages and Heralds was getting out of hand? I was under the impression that the reason there had been no Herald-Mages since Vanyel was because of the protections Vanyel put on Valdemar-- it seems to me that if the people didn't remember anything about magic and doubted its existence, the Mage-Gift probably wasn't recognized either. It could be that children born with the gift simply never knew they had it. Emma ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 13:29:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Greg Wooledge To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Braid:Chosen/ Alberich/Hearald-Mages Message-ID: On Sat, 12 Apr 1997 cjkocher-+AT+-spectra.net wrote: > I suspect that a deity had their hand in the lack of > active, mage-gifted Heralds ... maybe because the comparisons between > Herald-Mages and Heralds was getting out of hand? According to MPrice, Leareth destroyed all the Herald-Mages, even the mage-potential children. This would account for the lack of mages in Valdemar for several generations. What I still don't have an explanation for is why it was impossible even to discuss magic with Valdemarans. By The Sword has a good example of this, when Kerowyn tries to use the word "spirit" to describe Eldan's Companion, but can't say the word and has to fall back to "special". As far as I know, Vanyel's spell didn't include any such effects; in forming his pact with the vrondi, he originally intended for the vrondi to notify the nearest Herald-Mage when a non-Herald-Mage is detected working magic in Valdemar. If Van intended this, he wouldn't have done anything to prohibit Herald-Mages from existing, right? My apologies if this is answered in one of the books I haven't read yet. > And those with a some > sort of Mage-Gift were probably trained as having Farsight ... like > Elspeth was, if I'm correct. That's probably right. I think that's mentioned in one of the Winds books. ------------ Greg Wooledge ------------- ------- ------- --- --- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 14:41:16 -0400 From: "Crystal E. Hewitt" To: Subject: Re: Braid:Chosen/ Alberich/Hearald-Mages Message-ID: <199704121843.OAA24867-+AT+-ns.ilan.net> Heyla wingsibs, Just a few comments to add > According to MPrice, Leareth destroyed all the Herald-Mages, even the > mage-potential children. This would account for the lack of mages in > Valdemar for several generations. > > What I still don't have an explanation for is why it was impossible even > to discuss magic with Valdemarans Vanyel mentioned that all of this was possible (including the web) because of the Companion bond. Thus Kero couldn't speak of magic with Eldan even though they were not in Valdemar because his Companion (can't remember his name) was there. > > And those with a some > > sort of Mage-Gift were probably trained as having Farsight ... like > > Elspeth was, if I'm correct. exactly right, there eventually was the potential to be a mage but was unrecognized as such, after all in one of the winds books another herald with adept potential was mentioned. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 14:44:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Elisiande-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: theories... Message-ID: <970412144305_808988282-+AT+-emout11.mail.aol.com> >>>I remeber a part of the book in which Karal meats him, thinking he is "THE GREAT TRAITOR" and finds out that he is really not a half bad guy. . . i would think though that on the whole the Karsites would still think of him as such. . . that is thouse who really have little to do with the alience.<<< Yeah, it is very hard to change the minds of the general population about something like that, esp since they won't get the chance to meet Alberecht... >>>I suspect that a deity had their hand in the lack of active, mage-gifted Heralds ... maybe because the comparisons between Herald-Mages and Heralds was getting out of hand? And those with a some sort of Mage-Gift were probably trained as having Farsight ... like Elspeth was, if I'm correct. Companions may have shielded the mage-gift amongst their chosen, but it is my guess that it just disappeared completely from Valdemar for a while.<<< That would make sense for why the Mage-Gift faded after Vanyel... Misty makes the point that a lot of the gods don't want their proplrto become too reliant on any one thing for their survival. Maybe because the people were dependant (psychologically) on the Herald-Mages, and were "burning them out" relatively young as a result, it was necessary to teach them to adapt again. After all, at the time, Valdemar's primary defense was the Web, and we saw how easily that could be taken apart by picking off the anchors..... Sorry about that little bit of whineyness.... it has been a week! thanks for the support!!!!! Hugs, Elisiande, who feels better now ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 15:38:39 -0500 From: Siobhan McFarland To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: braid: answers with no questions/kestra'chern Message-ID: <199704122038.PAA05636-+AT+-glic> >From Insecure Elisiande (who needn't be) :D > Besides, maybe Misty didn't want all her heros to become Heralds-- that way >she maintains what is special and different about them. Not only that, but she probably also wanted to emphasize the worth of people who *aren't* heralds, like Natoli and her friends. They had a large part to play in lessening the impact of the mage storms. It wouldn't be healthy if valdermarans trusted only Heralds; just like in Arrows when Talia figures out why Heralds ride circuit instead of staying in one place: "It's so that they trust the office and not the person." It's just a step further to trust anyone with talent, and not just talented people wearing white. Sheep to thy pasture, Siobhan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 16:09:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Kehinde-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Braid:Chosen/ Alberich/Hearald-Mages Message-ID: <970412160929_50923598-+AT+-emout17.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-04-12 13:57:01 EDT, you write: << What I still don't have an explanation for is why it was impossible even to discuss magic with Valdemarans. >> This is answered in the Mage Winds series. Stephen was unable to completely convince everyone Heralds were every bit as good as Herald-Mages. People thought the king kept the Herald-Mages secret, for his own purposes only. So Stephen suggested to Vanyel that he cast the spell that made people forget magic except in the legends and made them unable to discuss it. He has subsequently revoked that spell. I think it lasted longer than he had originally anticipated anyway. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 23:50:21 GMT From: EWBennefeld-+AT+-worldnet.att.net (Healer Althaia) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Hearald-Mages Message-ID: <33541eb8.8814583-+AT+-mailhost.worldnet.att.net> On Sat, 12 Apr 97 17:39:55 +0000, estory-+AT+-shore.net wrote: > >I was under the impression that the reason there had been no >Herald-Mages since Vanyel was because of the protections Vanyel put on >Valdemar-- it seems to me that if the people didn't remember anything >about magic and doubted its existence, the Mage-Gift probably wasn't >recognized either. It could be that children born with the gift simply >never knew they had it. > > >Emma The suggestion in the last Magic book is that the Mage Gifts are hereditary. The enemy that he is fighting has been detecting and systematically killing off the children who show signs of the Mage Gift. As a result, those genes are being eliminated from the population of Valdemar. By eliminating these children (and their off-spring), he's ensuring that in his next re-incarnation, there will be no one with the magical power to oppose him. Healer Althaia ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Elizabeth's Haven http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/6505/ Featured Poet on Zippo's Internet Gallery-April 1997 http://www.zippo.com/agallery/zgallery.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 08:57:35 +0800 (SGT) From: chenchen-+AT+-rgs.edu.sg To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Hearald-Mages Message-ID: <199704130057.IAA10263-+AT+-aragorn.sol.com.sg> >I was under the impression that the reason there had been no >Herald-Mages since Vanyel was because of the protections Vanyel put on >Valdemar-- it seems to me that if the people didn't remember anything >about magic and doubted its existence, the Mage-Gift probably wasn't >recognized either. It could be that children born with the gift simply >never knew they had it. SOI Spoiler In one of the stories (can't remember which, book with friend, me -+AT+- home), there was this girl who had the Mage Gift. She could not bear the vrondi staring at her, so she escaped to the country where Quenten (sp?) lived and worked at an inn. Later, her gift was discovered by Quenten himself. She was then trained as a Mage and never went back to Valdemar, I think. Stormwind ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 21:41:58 -0400 (EDT) From: FireWurm-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Braid:Chosen/ Alberich/Hearald-Mages Message-ID: <970412214158_-2071370203-+AT+-emout20.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-04-12 16:31:48 EDT, you write: Kehinde said: > This is answered in the Mage Winds series. Stephen was unable to completely > convince everyone Heralds were every bit as good as Herald-Mages. People > thought the king kept the Herald-Mages secret, for his own purposes only. > So > Stephen suggested to Vanyel that he cast the spell that made people forget > magic except in the legends and made them unable to discuss it. He has > subsequently revoked that spell. I think it lasted longer than he had > originally anticipated anyway I always thought that the reason that Stephin could not come imediently to the Forest OF Sorrows was because he had to do the work of convincing the Bardic Circle to begin the process of using thier Gifts to influence people to Forget about the Hearald Mages except in a past tense sort of way. . . like a compusion to ignor it and to not say anythin about it. . . i rembemer when Kero was trying to exsplain magic to the Queen she had to do it all in terms of the mInd magick that they already knew. . . Sheeps for the short post Stallion, mindmate to Saa ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 02:30:52 CST From: "CHRISTY GOLDBACH" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Hearald-Mages Message-ID: <46100DF31C4-+AT+-cottey.edu> Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 01:02:06 +0100 (BST) Reply-to: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk From: EWBennefeld-+AT+-worldnet.att.net (Healer Althaia) To: goldc970-+AT+-cottey.edu Subject: Re: Hearald-Mages On Sat, 12 Apr 97 17:39:55 +0000, estory-+AT+-shore.net wrote: > >I was under the impression that the reason there had been no >Herald-Mages since Vanyel was because of the protections Vanyel put on >Valdemar-- it seems to me that if the people didn't remember anything >about magic and doubted its existence, the Mage-Gift probably wasn't >recognized either. It could be that children born with the gift simply >never knew they had it. > > >Emma xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx I believe that Emma is correct. They state in Winds of Fate the same opinion and speculation. That maybe it is hereditary but like any gene can't it lie dormant in one generation but the following generation have the open channel? They state that if no one has the gift then how can anyone recognize it. Chrildren could very well have been born and never knew they had it. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx As a result, those genes are being eliminated from the population of Valdemar. By eliminating these children (and their off-spring), he's ensuring that in his next re-incarnation, there will be no one with the magical power to oppose him. Healer Althaia xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Proof of what I have said above is Elspeth herself. At the end of The Mage Winds and during the Storm series she is training to become a herald-mage. She posseses the powers and strength but because she didn't know she had them nor knew what all they could do nor did she know what to look for, she didn't realize that she had them until in WofFate when, she goes with skif to the wizards place that is outside of Valdemar, you know the friend of Kero's that first identifies that Elspeth has the gift. This would all make sense, after all she is the decendant of Vanyel himself. It could have skipped generations!! that is just my thoughts. Wind to thy Wings, Christy and Safa I scratch Safa's head while feeding her a rabbit. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Elizabeth's Haven http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/6505/ Featured Poet on Zippo's Internet Gallery-April 1997 http://www.zippo.com/agallery/zgallery.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 19:54:10 -0400 From: Chris & Sean Talbot To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: RE: answers with no questions. Message-ID: <199704112354.TAA18702-+AT+-relief.idirect.com> At 03:05 AM 4/11/97 +0100, you wrote: > >Hi, >Kestrel here again...just putting my $0.02 worth. > >***************** > >About mages as heralds.... >I think the original author was requesting knowledge on whether >or not any other mages became heralds, not just herald-mages, as >that is an obvious answer. IMNSHO, in SW, there is talk about >the mages who came with Kero, helping to train the new H-M's, >I would guess, that they were made heralds as well, since >most of the mages with Kero originally, were driven out by >the Vrondi. Let me apologize first for the short post. First I don't believe the mages that came with Kero were ever chosen after the Vrondi watch came down. Remember how Kero said they were bringing mages in to help train and fight but she didn't know what they were going to get. That expresses to me that she didn't know who was coming at all since at that point Quenten hadn't thought of coming up to Valdemar to be the spoke person for the mages. The next thing is there time is taken too much up in the magic arts. Not in the way heralds act. So with most of thw White Winds schoolers having so much of there time taken out of them how could any possibly learn to be heralds. Aistes ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1170 **********************************