MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1172 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Help by Chris Needham 2) Re: Help by pronto-+AT+-adan.kingston.net 3) Darwind not being chosen by "Sera" 4) Help by mark-+AT+-galactica.it 5) Re: Hi, Newbie, with (I hope) a new question... by Fireheart 6) Re: Darwind not being chosen by NightSong 7) Re: Darwind not being chosen by Danae Burgess 8) "Tie that woman down!" by Samantha Banker 9) Re: "Tie that woman down!" by Disney 10) Re: "Tie that woman down!" by John Hagen 11) RE: Question/Mage gifts/MO Bonding by Shidrati Binte Ali BEMSA 12) RE: FLUFF, Herald-Mages, Mindspeech, and other stuff by Shidrati Binte Ali BEMSA 13) "Tie that woman down" by pronto-+AT+-adan.kingston.net 14) RE: Question/Mage gifts/MO Bonding by Heidi 15) Re: "Tie that woman down!" by smch-+AT+-juno.com (Staci Michele Carina Hempfling) 16) Re: FLUFF, Herald-Mages, Mindspeech, and other stuff by Kehinde-+AT+-aol.com 17) Fluff/ Bonding/ Mage-Gift by Azreil1997-+AT+-aol.com 18) Rolan immortal? etc by "Ailsa n'ha Winifreyda" 19) Re: Question/Mage gifts/MO Bonding by Kehinde-+AT+-aol.com 20) Re: FLUFF, Herald-Mages, Mindspeech, and other stuff by smch-+AT+-juno.com (Staci Michele Carina Hempfling) 21) Re: "Tie that woman down!" by LCM46-+AT+-aol.com 22) Comments on Different things by texs72-+AT+-webtv.net 23) Re: Comments on Different things by "Alex Y. Kwan" 24) Re: Comments on Different things by Virginia Eveland 25) Re: "Tie that woman down", MO, Magegift by Mark and Tracy 26) Re: Comments on Different things by georg-+AT+-swbell.net ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 15:45:03 +0200 From: Chris Needham To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Help Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970414154500.0070c3bc-+AT+-pop.matrix.it> Someone has played a joke, it seems. How can I get off this mailing list? many thanks in advance. Chris Needham ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Chris Needham e-mail :cneedham-+AT+-matrix.it Matrix srl Phone :+39 2 29047322 Via G Parini 14 Fax :+39 2 29047560 I-20121 Milano, ITALY Web :http://www.matrix.it ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 09:55:40 -0400 From: pronto-+AT+-adan.kingston.net To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Help Message-ID: <3352375C.57C8-+AT+-adan.kingston.net> Chris Needham wrote: > > Someone has played a joke, it seems. > How can I get off this mailing list? > > many thanks in advance. > Chris Needham > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Chris Needham e-mail :cneedham-+AT+-matrix.it > Matrix srl Phone :+39 2 29047322 > Via G Parini 14 Fax :+39 2 29047560 > I-20121 Milano, ITALY Web :http://www.matrix.it > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this page you have to: leave a blank subject line and in the body put unsubscribe mercedes-lackey send this to listproc-+AT+-herald.co.uk Hope this helps!! CeltCrow ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 10:09:54 CST From: "Sera" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Darwind not being chosen Message-ID: <139008F73C5-+AT+-email.rosary.edu> > In a message dated 97-04-11 22:18:06 EDT, someone writes: > > << I, too believe that Darkwind could be a Herald. It makes me wonder why > Misty didn't have him be Chosen. > >> Elisande responded with: > Darkwind isn't Valdemaran, and his first duty isn't to Valdemar, much as he > loves Elspeth. He has too many "prior committments" among his own people to > have the kind of dedication to Valdemar that being a Herald requires. > Besides, maybe Misty didn't want all her heros to become Heralds-- that way > she maintains what is special and different about them. As for someone being > adopted into the Hawkbrothers, there is a difference between being adopted > into a tribe, even a highly selective one, and being Chosen. As Elisande said, Darkwind ISN'T Valdemaran! When Elspeth was being adapted into the Hawkbrothers she was concerned that the vows she was taking would conflict with those she upholds as a Herald. (I'd quote this but the books are at home!) She decides that for HER the vows don't conflict. However, Darkwind might not see things in this way and Misty, knowing this could be troublesome, doesn't have Darkwind Chosen. Also, it shows that Heralds do have intimate relationships with others OTHER than Heralds and that the relationship is just as special. IMHO, I think I like the relationship BETTER because he's not Chosen, it adds a certian "spice" to the text that another Herald wouldn't provide. Sera and Shea * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * "Truly you have a dizzying intellect." The Princess Bride "On ne voit bien qu'avec le coeur. L'essential est invisible pour les yeux." Le Petit Prince Antoine de Saint-Exupery * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Liz Blaszak blaszael-+AT+-email.rosary.edu http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/4537/ (708) 524-6997 X2076 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ------------------------------ Date: 14 Apr 1997 18:27:14 GMT From: mark-+AT+-galactica.it To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Help Message-ID: <056620528160e47MAIL-+AT+-mail.galactica.it> ME>Someone has played a joke, it seems. ME>How can I get off this mailing list? You aren't alone... The same for me, about 200 mailing lists. The form is (without subject) "unsubscribe . Марк Бернардини Mark Bernardini http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/Floor/2487 to: IN:mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk cc: IN:cneedham-+AT+-matrix.it ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 14:32:09 -0700 From: Fireheart To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Hi, Newbie, with (I hope) a new question... Message-ID: <3352A259.B79-+AT+-geocities.com> Wyvern wrote: > And as for the second question, I get the idea that the first bond is > broken. Think about the bit about how Jisa's first Companion wouldn't be a > bonded choosing because she was going to be Monarch's Own. So perhaps the > one who will be MO just never has a very close bonding with their Companion > in the first place. Hey, the Companions are apparently taken care of by a > divine source and they don't screw up. At least not usually. So I think they > can take care of things so they work out for the better. If I'm not mistaken, according to the LHM series, It said that Jisa could have a temporary bonding, so she could start training, but that it would not be the permanent bond she would have gotten from Taver, had she not married. But anyway... that's just IIRC. Fruitcake coated sheep for all... so you can give the same one year after year for Christmas. ;-) Fireheart God of New Homes, Owner of the Eternal Contact Paper, Giver of the Perpetual Housewarming Gift. OoUL/L ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 16:31:10 -0400 From: NightSong To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Darwind not being chosen Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970414203110.006afd68-+AT+-atlonline.com> Staci wrote: << I, too believe that Darkwind could be a Herald. It makes me wonder why > Misty didn't have him be Chosen. > >> Elisande responded with: > Darkwind isn't Valdemaran, and his first duty isn't to Valdemar, much as he > loves Elspeth. He has too many "prior committments" among his own people to > have the kind of dedication to Valdemar that being a Herald requires. > Besides, maybe Misty didn't want all her heros to become Heralds-- that way > she maintains what is special and different about them. As for someone being > adopted into the Hawkbrothers, there is a difference between being adopted > into a tribe, even a highly selective one, and being Chosen. I agree, Darkwind had too many prior committments to be Chosen, and his place in the story as a 'mysterious Tayledras' would be totally ruined if that happened. However, I have to object to saying that because Darkwind isn't Valdemaran, he obviously should not be Chosen. Maybe I'm just reading this wrong, but I've gotten it from other posts as well. Most of the Heralds do come from Valdemar, evidenced by Selenay's telling Talia, I think, that most of those Chosen find their way somehow to Haven (perhaps influenced by the Web?), but she did mention, in relation to Rolan, that some Companions actually leave Haven to find their Chosen, like the Monarch's Own Companion. And look at Alberich! I mean, he's hardly Valdemaran, and according to what he was brought up to believe, he was Chosen by one of the 'HellHorses'. He'd have little reason to want to uphold Heraldic ideals if he didn't happen to have ForeSight which caused his people to threaten his life as a witch. Anyways, about Darkwind: he WAS once a partial outcast among his people, because of his father. I wonder if maybe that rift hadn't been healed, mayhaps he would have been Chosen. Then he would have very few ties to his home (er, ex-home, I guess), and he might have been more willing to help Valdemar. But in any case, we really _don't know_ what makes one person acceptable to a Companion and another not-- see The Demon's Den in SOI -- In AotQ, Teren says that the most sensitive can discern a sense of being judged somehow when they are Chosen, but no one knows what the Companions are really looking for. Maybe it's the Gift, maybe it's that inherent goodness/honesty/integrity that most of our favorite Heralds seem to have. But we really don't know. My guess is that Darkwind just had more important things in his 'destiny' than just being another Herald-Mage, y'know? And the same for Natoli. If they're needed elsewhere, I'd say that the gods aren't going to grant them the Gift that all Heralds have just so they can be another Fighter for the Truth/Right, which they can do just as well or better probly in another position. Anyhow, I guess I've rambled enough for now; apologies for the semi-long but only on one topic post. Stars light your paths, listsibs! NightSong jwrenn-+AT+-atlonline.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 17:07:43 -0400 From: Danae Burgess To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Darwind not being chosen Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970414210743.0066e7f8-+AT+-ime.net> >>>>>But in any >case, we really _don't know_ what makes one person acceptable to a Companion >and another not-- see The Demon's Den in SOI -- In AotQ, Teren says that >the most sensitive can discern a sense of being judged somehow when they are >Chosen, but no one knows what the Companions are really looking for. Maybe >it's the Gift, maybe it's that inherent goodness/honesty/integrity that most >of our favorite Heralds seem to have. But we really don't know.>>>>>> > NightSong I think that mabey for the regular heralds that was all that they were looking for but don't you think that the Monarch's Own Companion was chosen for very specific reasons! It seems to me that Talia was chosen for very specific reasons that would meet the needs of the moment! Talia worked well with children and therefore was able to handle Elspeth and her ability to say just what needed to be said was what really helped the queen! Sorry that this is so short but I didn't have much to say! Strawberry Sheeps to All, ~Danae Burgess~ ;-) -+AT+-}~~}~~ (rose) danae-+AT+-ime.net > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 18:44:52 -0400 From: Samantha Banker To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: "Tie that woman down!" Message-ID: <3352B364.38FD9D9B-+AT+-stny.lrun.com> Creature & Co. wrote: > Somebody (sorry, but the delete-finger struck again) brought up the quote > from MPawn where they have to deal with the coldrake, and one of the Mage's > is pregnant, and Savil says, "Good heavens! Tie that woman down!" or > something to that point. I always read that quote as "She's pregnant, AGAIN!?!" describing the type of person who seems to be pregnant everytime you turn around. Savil had been absent from k'Treva for several to many years, and that mage had that reputation back then. It never, IMHO, had anything to do with what would happen to pregnant mages. I think that the fact that the mother normally incorporates mage energy into her body, having a fetus would not change it any, other than possibly making the child somewhat sensative to mage energy. What would happen if an unGifted woman was pregnant with a Gifted child? Would nothing happen, or would it be like when baby is RH+, and mom is RH-, mom may abort the fetus or have health problems while pregnant? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 19:01:16 -0500 (CDT) From: Disney To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: "Tie that woman down!" Message-ID: <01IHPFHELUV600ZYV8-+AT+-ACAD.DRAKE.EDU> Samantha (?-no name on sig) said that she read Savil's quote of 'tie that woman down!' to be that said Tayledras was pregnant AGAIN... I kind of thought that they were referring to how the pregnant mage was always kind of what we would possibly call 'spitfire' ...I mean, fire temper, danger loving, etc...The reason she said to 'tie that woman down' was cause pregnancy might make her more of a spitfire..I've never had a kid, but I've heard that emotions go flaring...I dunno, *shrug* just my .02 :) Forgive the short post, but I'm in the middle of packing for a move ... and procrastinating going through my junk drawers..:) Hope your weather is better than mine (iowa is getting over a late snowstorm) Jennie Specie JES001-+AT+-acad.drake.edu Forgotten worshipper of the Goddess of Sensitivity ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 20:31:48 -0400 From: John Hagen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: "Tie that woman down!" Message-ID: <3352CC70.3BA2-+AT+-snet.net> Yes, emotions can go flaring or it can happen that you become totally placid, like me. When I was pregnant, _nothing_ bothered me. I was on a total hormone high the entire 9 months. Of course, when I was no longer pregnant, my post partum blues were reeeeeaaaaal dark. However I got over it. I think that it all depends on the woman, mage or not, as to how she handles pregnancy and mage energy. And you are all forgetting Shavri. She was primarily a healer, yet bore a child with Mage Gift in potential. A non Mage Gifted woman who bore a child w/Mage Gift would probably do perfectly fine. Lady Sara, LIG & Dryad Extraordinaire Hopeful Diety of All Marsupials, Past, Present & Future ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 97 09:36:00 PDT From: Shidrati Binte Ali BEMSA To: mercedes-lackey Subject: RE: Question/Mage gifts/MO Bonding Message-ID: <3353AE8C-+AT+-nusnetgw1.nus.sg> From: texs72-+AT+-webtv.net To: bemsa-+AT+-leonis.nus.sg Subject: Question/Mage gifts/MO Bonding ************************************************** About the killings of the mage-gifted children et al. IMO it was not so much as getting rid of the gifted for the future or for making sure the gift would "die" out. I believe that Leareth went around killing the gifted, young and old alike, inorder to insure that when his army swept down from the north, Valdemar would be defenseless. Remember, he didn't just kill the gifted children, he made sure that all of the gifted adults were killed also. That way he would at least insure a few years of uncontested conquering of Valdemar, before anyone was strong enought to challenge him. I don't know if anyone agrees with me, but that is MHO. >>Yep, in fact he started his killing spree much earlier than just Magic Price. I can't qoute but it seemed it may have started even during Van's youth in Magic Pawn. That was also why in Magic Promise there seem to be less Mage-gifted herald trainees and there were a shortage of Mage-heralds as they die one by one. *************************************************** Wyvern, you said "So perhaps the one who will be MO just never has a very close bonding with their Companion in the first place." Were you speaking of all cases or only in the unbonded cases? Talia has an extremely tight bond with Rolan, as shown in the Arrows trilogy. I can't put my hands on the book, but I remember they tested the bond and even with Talia's shields up, Rolan was still with her. I'm not sure if I understood you correctly (it is 3:30 am here and my brain is mush!) >> What I think Wyvern meant(from reading the lists) is that if the one to be MO has not been Chosen by the MO's Companion but instead been Chosen by any other Companion due to the fact that there is still the Current MO.....then that bond is not so close.............I concur with Wyvern on that point coz in the LHM books it sort of said that. But I also agree that Talia and Rolan had an extremely tight bond. But question...was that bond blocked when Talia was captured by Hulda and Ancar? As to whether the MO would have two Companions then....that is unlikely....I think that the previous bond would be broken leaving the other ompanion free to CHose another Herald. ************************************************ Since we are talking on the subject of MO and their Companions, here's what Virginia Eveland wrote : In Vanyel's time, The Last Herald Mage Series, we are told that the name of the Companion of the King's own is Taver, the current companion of Shavri. We are told that Jisi won't be chosen until Taver's current chosen is dead, which, is *fine* and in from with the Arrows of the Queen series. But where and when did Taver become Rolan in the Arrows of the Queen Series??? It wouldn't be so nagging except that Rolan is a Grove companion and even when he gets *killed* he comes back, and if he isn't killed he never seems to age...and that Rolan *always* tells his chosen his name. So what occured of Taver? Is this just a loose thread I'm biting at or a real inconsistancy? >> Between Van's time and Talia's time, there's about 700 hundred years give and take a few. No stories been told about MO between those two times. As far as MO's Companions are concerned, they are always Grove Born, Male, never Ages......but they can die. So perhaps something happen to one of the MO and Taver or his successor died with the MO such that at last it was Rolan that end up with Talia. I disagree with some of the comments that said tthat perhaps the MO's Companion is immortal. I think you have to check Arrows of the Queen or Magic Price for the qoute that they can die. ************************************************** I have a question about Herald Mages......Does the Companion of a Herald MAge have to have MAge gift as well? We know that Companions do have the Mage gift. And we know that most heralds reincarnate to become Companions....So do Herald Mages retain their Gift when they become Companions? ************************************************* Anyway, that's all for now. Peace be to you, list-sibs and wind to thy wings. Kestrel ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 97 09:43:00 PDT From: Shidrati Binte Ali BEMSA To: mercedes-lackey Subject: RE: FLUFF, Herald-Mages, Mindspeech, and other stuff Message-ID: <3353B041-+AT+-nusnetgw1.nus.sg> From: "Alex Y. Kwan" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Last question. How does each type of Mindspeech work? Using Vanyel and Stef as example, why can't Stef and Van share minds? Van has both Thought-sensing *and* Projection, which would mean he *can* Mind-speak to Stef (like push the thought in?) and 'pick up' the answers from Stef's mind. Which would mean that they can share both thoughts and emotions (emotions obviously through the lifebond). So, why does it seem that they can't? >> Hhmm.....you might be on to something coz in Wind of Fury, Sayvil(Kero's Companion) projected her thoughts to those who are not MindSpeech gifted. And Yet Talia could not even sense any thought from Rolan or anyone else, even though it was hinted that Rolan is a powerful Mindspeaker..........maybe, it depends on case to case basis. Some are just Mind deaf(Talia to qoute).....while others while not Gifted with Mindspeech are not. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 20:57:10 -0400 From: pronto-+AT+-adan.kingston.net To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: "Tie that woman down" Message-ID: <3352D266.5A1C-+AT+-adan.kingston.net> When ML's Savil said "Tie that woman down" I took it to mean that the particular mage had a reputation of going off to fight, no matter what her condition. I think the Savil was probably just worried that she might damage herself, or her baby is some way. CeltCrow ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 20:53:00 -0500 From: Heidi To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Question/Mage gifts/MO Bonding Message-ID: <2.2.32.19970415015300.00985e54-+AT+-tetranet.net> Kestrel Wrote: But question...was that bond blocked when Talia was captured by Hulda and Ancar? Nope. It wasn't. I can't lay my hands on my books either at the moment, (my room is a mess, and I'm in the midsts of unpacking/recovering from a road-trip to Kansas City over the weekend) but the quote is something like this, "The one thing they hadn't counted on was her tight bond with Rolan.... ...They couldn't block that..." Well, I'm off to go do my English homework! Later All!! --Heidi ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 18:11:06 PST From: smch-+AT+-juno.com (Staci Michele Carina Hempfling) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: "Tie that woman down!" Message-ID: <19970414.182734.4078.0.smch-+AT+-juno.com> On Mon, 14 Apr 1997 23:49:07 +0100 (BST) Samantha Banker writes: >>>I think that the fact that the mother normally incorporates mage energy into her body, having a fetus would not change it any, other than possibly making the child somewhat sensative to mage energy. <<< Pardon me if we've already been over this subject, but what about if the _FATHER_ is mage Gifted?? Why would it be any different for a man than a woman on this account. The mage energy is flowing through him just the same as it would through a woman. Would that possibly "charge" the *ahem* little swimmers? Does anyone remember whether or not Jisa was sensitive? Or the Tayledras child that Vanyel fathered? Maybe I'm WAY off of my gourd on this, but I think that if the father of the child practiced A LOT of magery during the time that that particular cell was being "manufactured" then surely some of that would rub off on it. Any thoughts anyone? Sheeps to all for the way-off-base-ness of this post... Staci ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 22:00:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Kehinde-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: FLUFF, Herald-Mages, Mindspeech, and other stuff Message-ID: <970414215855_1851206542-+AT+-emout12.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-04-14 03:12:02 EDT, you write: << Last question. How does each type of Mindspeech work? Using Vanyel and Stef as example, why can't Stef and Van share minds? Van has both Thought-sensing *and* Projection, which would mean he *can* Mind-speak to Stef (like push the thought in?) and 'pick up' the answers from Stef's mind. Which would mean that they can share both thoughts and emotions (emotions obviously through the lifebond). So, why does it seem that they can't? >> I always thought they could, they just chose not to. I know Vanyel, and most other Heralds, get touchy about forming an undesired link. Vanyel might of thought he was being intrusive. I can't imagine why, until Vanyel's death they would want to. Darn silly waste of power. Vanyel did speak mind to mind with him after that. YFandes certainly could and did. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 22:09:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Azreil1997-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Fluff/ Bonding/ Mage-Gift Message-ID: <970414205845_-166959475-+AT+-emout05.mail.aol.com> Deniz- whether or not Shy remembers about the difficulty of aquiring (sp?) virgin females, I do. btw thanx for the science/ genetic lesson, it's been a while since prep bio, and watch the puns girl! texs72 wrote: >>>>Wyvern, you said "So perhaps the one who will be MO just never has a >>>>very close bonding with their Companion in the first place." >>Were you speaking of all cases or only in the unbonded cases? Talia has >>an extremely tight bond with Rolan (snip) As you suggested, there is a substantial diffeerence between the two cases mentioned. In Jisa case, the Monarch's Own, Talia, is alive and well, and presumably has many years ahead of her in her occupation. And the Companions/ Heralds may prefer for Jisa to have an unbonded chosing to maintain a pretense uniformity or not bring up difficult questions aboout Companion's capabilities. In Talia's case, her predecessor was assisinated, and there was no need for her to have an unbonded choosing while she was at the Collegium, in fact they wanted to get her iiin whites ASAP to minimize the interim time which I thiink iin less hostile times would be under a week. alex- >> I think the Mage-Gift *is* in the genes. But just because Learath >>(sp?) killed one generation of Mage-Gifted doesn't mean he wiped all >>'real' magic out of Valdemar for about five hundred years. And also, >>there's still kids showing up as Mage-potential at the times around >>Vanyel's death. So those can have children that are Mage-Gifted. I am more or less in concordance with Deniz on this one. Leareth's plan as usual was destabilization from the inside, ie. killing active mages and those who were likely to have their gift awaken, thus removig mages and not those who simply have the potential. Like Deniz's example with the peas, there are likely to be a number of people with potential, but none with an active gift in Valdemar. The first/ last batch of mages was killed off by Leareth, and the rest were kept at bay by Vanyel's protrction on Valdemar. So that thos with potential would live and the potential would breed through their offspring, but anyone whose gift woke up would have been driven insane by the vrondi or left the country after attempting to use their gift. In a way, it was the dual actions of Van and Leareth that kept Valdemar mageless. Leareth decimated the population, and Van drove native and foreign mages away so that the mage gift went unrecognized and untaught by the Heralds--or anyone else. Azreil1997-+AT+-aol.com Dame OoAM ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:48:28 From: "Ailsa n'ha Winifreyda" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Rolan immortal? etc Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19970415114828.2f07cf6a-+AT+-bilbo.cc.flinders.edu.au> Dear Listsibs, Ailsa emerges from piles of marking, learning Windows 95, PH D preparation, preparation work for lectures and tutorials and looks around to see that there is a world out there and offers: Rolan immortal??? I dinna think so - I'm not quite convinced it is the SAME QO Companion when the other one is killed. What say you all? For one thing they have had different names. As for the Mage gift being genetic - probably - the question is - dominant or recessive??? Darkwind Chosen - although others from different cultures/countries have been Chosen ie Daren, Alberich, Kerowyn and thus it does not make being Valdemaran a pre-requisite for being chosen - he has, in many ways, been chosen by his Bondbird. He also would need a TOTAL commitment to Valdemar and her Monarchy and that is asking a lot even though the afore mentioned three have done so. He has been so deeply involved in the Vales and the vocation of the the Tayledras (and I used that word deliberately - vocation) that he would I think be divided. On another tack(OAT) and chocolate covered Koalas (especially from Kangaroo Island) to you all if this has been covered. We know that the Star-Eyed looks after the Shin'a'in and the Tayledras and that the Sunlord (??name You & I know who I mean but my mind has gone blank - must be the champers & red from last night) looks after the Karsites and those in Iftel. And yes I subscribe to the idea that they are consort deities. BUT WHO sent the original Companions - which Deity???? Another one?? OAT How many of you are Maggie Fury fans? ie Harp of winds etc?? That's it.. I am being dragged down by paperwork yet again ..... I'll keep reading you but will probably de-lurk at the end of semester.... Wind to thy wings, list sibs Regards Ailsa Ailsa n'ha Winifreyda School of Nursing, Flinders University of South Australia Email:Ailsa.nhaWinifreyda-+AT+-flinders.edu.au Practise random acts of kindness and senseless beauty! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 22:47:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Kehinde-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Question/Mage gifts/MO Bonding Message-ID: <970414220143_384962578-+AT+-emout01.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-04-14 04:48:44 EDT, you write: << "So perhaps the one who will be MO just never has a very close bonding with their Companion in the first place." Were you speaking of all cases or only in the unbonded cases? Talia has an extremely tight bond with Rolan, as shown in the Arrows trilogy >> I think the reference was to the first bond, assuming the MO is Chosen by the MO Companion AFTER being first Chosen as a Herald by a different Companion. The Talia/Rolan bond is particularly interesting. She is the first to discover that even a Herald without Mindspeach can bespeak her Companion in deap trance. Did that go anywhere after that series? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 19:32:38 PST From: smch-+AT+-juno.com (Staci Michele Carina Hempfling) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: FLUFF, Herald-Mages, Mindspeech, and other stuff Message-ID: <19970414.193238.3726.1.smch-+AT+-juno.com> On Tue, 15 Apr 1997 03:22:50 +0100 (BST) Kehinde-+AT+-aol.com writes: >>>I always thought they could, they just chose not to. I know Vanyel, and most other Heralds, get touchy about forming an undesired link. Vanyel might of thought he was being intrusive.....Darn silly waste of power. Vanyel did speak mind to mind with him after that. YFandes certainly could and did.<<< I agree with this theory. Remember, there's a very strong set of ethics pertaining to Mindspeech and Thoughtsensing. All Heralds with those particular gifts have it DRILLED into them from day one of their training that you DO NOT muck about in another person's mind without express permission from that person. I'm not so sure about them worrying about it being a waste of power, however. After a certain amount of training, I'm sure that it's child's play for them to speak mind to mind. Look at how easily Kero does it. Staci ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 00:32:10 -0400 (EDT) From: LCM46-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: "Tie that woman down!" Message-ID: <970414232429_1784000731-+AT+-emout17.mail.aol.com> Sayvil saying "tie that woman down" seemed to be implying "keep her out of the way, and let her be preggers in peace", as somehow I feel that a pregnant mage is a rarity among the Tayledras, and Sayvil wanted to help keep her safe. That's my .02! Back to lurker status. Lorraine Domestic/Laundry Goddess Appreciator of Penguins But I'm not dead yet! MP/Holy Grail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 01:29:37 -0400 From: texs72-+AT+-webtv.net To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Comments on Different things Message-ID: <199704150529.WAA02501-+AT+-mailtod-103.bryant.webtv.net> Heyla All! Back again to put my .02 in. **************************************************** Kestel, You are right about the shortage of mage gifts starting before MPrice. If I remember correctly, Savil had moved to smaller quarters because the numbers of mage-gifteds had shrunk considerably. ***************************************************** Touching on comments by Staci and Alisa---- Vanyel had four children: Jisa, Brightstar and his twin, and the child raised by the two shaych guards. Jisa and Brightstar were gifted and the other two were not (did they have names???) The fact that Brightstar was gifted and his twin was not lends a bit of a twist to the genetics question. Were they identical or fraternal? Why would one be gifted and the other not?? It lends credence to the recessive and not dominant trait. ***************************************************** Well that is all I can think of tonight. Blessings! Texie ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 23:10:52 -0700 From: "Alex Y. Kwan" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Comments on Different things Message-ID: <33531BEB.1FFC-+AT+-earthlink.net> Hi. I asked once, but I guess I have to ask again. How do I join the Order of Amber and Marigold? Okay, texs72 asked whether the twins Vanyel fathered with the Tayledas woman (twins: Brightstar and whoever, the mother: dunno because of my memory loss) are fraternal or identical. Unless my Biology teacher is an idiot, what she said is that identical twins have to be of the same sex. Brightstar's twin is *female* while Brightstar is *male*. (I am truly sorry if I offended anyone, especially texs, I has always been an arrogant and sarcastic brat.) It is interesting to try to find out whether the Mage-Gift is in the recessive or dominant genes. I think it's recessive or there would be a lot more mages. To the comment of Savil in MPawn of 'Tie her down!' I've always interpret it as that the pregnant woman in question has always had a high tendency of chasing after adventure and danger, so to protect her and her baby, Savil's Wingsibs should restrain the woman. Well, enough rambling. That's my two cents worth. Bye. from little alex ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 06:32:26 -0400 From: Virginia Eveland To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Comments on Different things Message-ID: <3353593A.98A7FF52-+AT+-erols.com> Alex Y. Kwan wrote: > > Hi. I asked once, but I guess I have to ask again. How do I join the > Order of Amber and Marigold? > Okay, texs72 asked whether the twins Vanyel fathered with the Tayledas > woman (twins: Brightstar and whoever, the mother: dunno because of my > memory loss) are fraternal or identical. Unless my Biology teacher is > an idiot, what she said is that identical twins have to be of the same > sex. Brightstar's twin is *female* while Brightstar is *male*. (I am > truly sorry if I offended anyone, especially texs, I has always been an > arrogant and sarcastic brat.) Well, I can't say about the brat part but (g) I have MET different sex identical Twins. Obviously they don't look *completely* alike once they grow up, but if the hair cuts are the same when their young kids, you would be hard pressed to say which was the girl and which was the boy, I certainly couldn't in the photo's they showed me! (and believe it or not these are some kind of relatives to me...) It is interesting to try to find out > whether the Mage-Gift is in the recessive or dominant genes. I think > it's recessive or there would be a lot more mages. > To the comment of Savil in MPawn of 'Tie her down!' I've always > interpret it as that the pregnant woman in question has always had a > high tendency of chasing after adventure and danger, so to protect her > and her baby, Savil's Wingsibs should restrain the woman. > Well, enough rambling. That's my two cents worth. Bye. > from little alex I always get a laugh when I read this line, somehow it always comes across as being something along the lines of. 'Dear god, she's pregnant AGAIN! Will someone get her away from the men!' She probably had a reputation for being rather um...prolific in certain ways...Or at least, that's my current interpretation, I just reread the Trilogy (and read the front cover off the third book, now WHERE am I going to find another embossed paperback to match the other two?) VA Eveland dscully-+AT+-erols.com -- "If you're falling off a cliff, you may as well try to fly, you've got nothing to lose..." Captain Sheridan, Babylon 5 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 19:51:01 -0700 From: Mark and Tracy To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: "Tie that woman down", MO, Magegift Message-ID: <3352ED15.1C47-+AT+-worldnet.att.net> pronto-+AT+-adan.kingston.net wrote: > > When ML's Savil said "Tie that woman down" I took it to mean that the > particular mage had a reputation of going off to fight, no matter what > her condition. I think the Savil was probably just worried that she > might damage herself, or her baby is some way. > > CeltCrow The exact quote is "Lord and and Lady - lock her up!" Then Starwind replies that "She's steadied since she reached Adept. No more headlong races into danger just for the thrill." Although I have always believed that she needed to be locked up because she was frequently pregnant, (in fact that was going to be my original .02) I think that the majority of the comments have been right, Savil was worried about her getting hurt. Ailsa n'ha Winifreyda writes: > As for the Mage gift being genetic - probably - the question is - >dominant or recessive??? IMHO - recessive. In MPromise when Van checks Jisa for gifts he notes that although she is not Mage-gifted, she carries it in double potential, she'll certainly pass it to her children. I think people were being born as Mage gifted and trained in Farsight or else leaving the country if they didn't get Chosen. The fact that, of Brightstar and his twin sister (fraternal twins), he is mage gifted and she is not bears out the recessive theory. Choco sheep w/whipcream to all. Tracy "I chose the road less traveled on and that has made all the difference" Robert Frost ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 07:20:16 -0500 From: georg-+AT+-swbell.net To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Comments on Different things Message-ID: <33537280.6473-+AT+-swbell.net> texs72-+AT+-webtv.net wrote: > > Heyla All! Back again to put my .02 in. > **************************************************** > Kestel, You are right about the shortage of mage gifts starting before > MPrice. If I remember correctly, Savil had moved to smaller quarters > because the numbers of mage-gifteds had shrunk considerably. > > ***************************************************** > Touching on comments by Staci and Alisa---- > Vanyel had four children: Jisa, Brightstar and his twin, and the child > raised by the two shaych guards. Jisa and Brightstar were gifted and the > other two were not (did they have names???) > The fact that Brightstar was gifted and his twin was not lends a bit of > a twist to the genetics question. Were they identical or fraternal? Why > would one be gifted and the other not?? It lends credence to the > recessive and not dominant trait. > > ***************************************************** > Well that is all I can think of tonight. Blessings! > Texie I know that its not the same world but since they have collaborated I feel free to mention in MZB's Darkover identical twins often split gifts unequally causing one to have powerful laran and the other to have little or no laran....just a thought. ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1172 **********************************