MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1174 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Brightstar's twin, An'desha by cundiffg-+AT+-evansville.net 2) Re: Van's Kids by "LISA G. R. HENDERSON" 3) Re: An'desha by "Crystal E. Hewitt" 4) Re: twins by "Vrondi" 5) Re: twins by cundiffg-+AT+-evansville.net 6) Re: Twins by "CHRISTY GOLDBACH" 7) Re: No Subject by "CHRISTY GOLDBACH" 8) Re: Hi, Newbie, with (I hope) a new question... by Lydia Hales 9) Re: "Tie that woman down!" by Lydia Hales 10) Re: Brightstar's twin, An'desha by John Hagen 11) Re: Hi, Newbie, with (I hope) a new question... by Shidrati Binte Ali BEMSA 12) Re: twins by "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Familia_Rinc=F3n_Parra?=" 13) Re: No Subject by Virginia Eveland 14) Re: Twins by SEANSQ-+AT+-aol.com 15) Cool spell checker fluff by Mark and Tracy 16) Re: An'desha by cundiffg-+AT+-evansville.net 17) Re: twins by pronto-+AT+-adan.kingston.net ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 09:49:41 -0700 From: cundiffg-+AT+-evansville.net To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Brightstar's twin, An'desha Message-ID: <335501C7.2B57-+AT+-evansville.net> Evrybody's talking about how Firesong developed as a character, he did develope, but I didn't like him anyway . I'm reading the ML books backwards by sets, (inadvertant at first) so I "met" the Firesong of Storms first. Being homesick, falling in love, dumped, and helping to save the world can mature a person. As for a character that I think really developed, I think An'desha really did, he started off whiny and cowardly and turned out pretty O.K. the seen where he really loses his temper and screams "Dam* you!" azt Karal is really believable, BTW how old is he 17/18? What I don't understand about An'desha is -- After being locked away for a ?hundred years without barely any stimuli at all, why is he so depressed in storms? when he is released, he seems more than ready to jump into life. He has memories, but I don't see why he takes responsibility for Falconsbane's deeds -- he doesn't when he is locked away. Plus, you'd think he'd be the ultimate dullard by the time he is released. What sheltered naive 17 year old has the memories and fortitude to be locked in closet. I can see where he would be shy. -- Individual e-mail reply mailto:cundiffg-+AT+-evansville.net Discover Mesker Park Zoo http://www.evansville.net/~mpzoo Uncover an Official Bottom 95% Web Site http://www.evansville.net/~cundiffg/prequel.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 08:52:20 CST6CDT From: "LISA G. R. HENDERSON" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Van's Kids Message-ID: <14AF3837316-+AT+-Engr.MsState.Edu> > Texie said: > > >***************************************************** Touching on comments > >by Staci and Alisa---- Vanyel had four children: Jisa, Brightstar and his > >twin, and the child raised by the two shaych guards. Jisa and Brightstar > >were gifted and the other two were not (did they have names???) The fact > >that Brightstar was gifted and his twin was not lends a bit of a twist to > >the genetics question. Were they identical or fraternal? Why would one be > >gifted and the other not?? It lends credence to the recessive and not > >dominant trait. Morning Star said: > I don't remember if the kids' names were stated in any of the books... I > can't find WoC and that's the only one I remember as POSSIBLY having > Brightstar's twin's name. I do, however, distinctly remember that his twin > was female, so they're fraternal. If anyone can find their copy of WoC, the > quote I have in mind is when Firesong is telling Elspeth that they're both > descended from Vanyel. Anyone? I've been rereading Magic's Price and came across the very section last night. Vanyel had just told Stefen that Jisa was his daughter and then goes on to tell of his other kids. Here's the text (from Chapter 14): "I have three other children, but the only one I ever see is Brightstar, the boy Starwind and Moondance are raising. The others are a mage-Gifted girl one of the other Tayledras has, named Featherfire, and a girl two of Lissa's retired shaych Guards are raising, who has no Gifts at all so far as I can tell." (Skipping about one and a half paragraphs) Feartherfire's mother isn't shaych, but there wasn't a single Tayledras male she felt the right way about to have a child with. She had twins; Brightstar is Feather's brother." Hope this answers some questions. Lisa Henderson -- http://www2.msstate.edu/~lgr1 Colvard's Logical Premise: All probabilities are 50%. Either a thing will happen or it won't. Grelb's Commentary: Likelihoods, however, are 90% against you. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 11:10:05 -0400 From: "Crystal E. Hewitt" To: Subject: Re: An'desha Message-ID: <199704161508.LAA09727-+AT+-ns.ilan.net> Heyla Wingsibs What I don't understand about An'desha is -- After being locked away for > a ?hundred years without barely any stimuli at all, why is he so > depressed in storms? when he is released, he seems more than ready to > jump into life. He has memories, but I don't see why he takes > responsibility for Falconsbane's deeds -- he doesn't when he is locked > away. Plus, you'd think he'd be the ultimate dullard by the time he is > released. What sheltered naive 17 year old has the memories and > fortitude to be locked in closet. I can see where he would be shy. I would hardly say that he had NO stimuli, just thankfully not the kind that HE would enjoy/prefer. IMHO He could have vicariously enjoyed Falconsbane's entertainment's, but refused to sink to that level. I would say that even witnessing the small portion of filth that An'desha did would unbalance even the most mature of people, and so his depression is just an after-effect of all he had witnessed, and had HIS Body used to commit. With Love, guidance, and Time An'desha does "grow up" and the only time that he really has a small relapse is at the end of the Storms trilogy (don't want to "spoil" it for anyone ;)) Mysttree ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 12:09:15 +0000 From: "Vrondi" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: twins Message-ID: <199704161508.LAA18765-+AT+-edweb.concord.wvnet.edu> > Virginia said: > > Well, I can't say about the brat part but (g) I have MET different sex > > identical Twins. Then, Familia Rincon Parra said: > As in everything, twindom has a gray scale too. There isn't a > cliff between fraternal and identical twins, it is like a slope, and they > are probably very close to the border between fraternal and identical, on > the fraternal side. there is no such thing as being close to identical. you're identical or not. Identical twins begin with ONE fertilized egg that splits. thus, they are exactly genetically the same. Fraternal twinsa start totally differently. For fraternal twins, there were TWO separate eggs that got fertilized at the same time. Genetically, fraternal twins are no more alike or related than normal brothers and sisters. It is impossible to have a set of identical twins that are a boy and a girl, because the egg splits _after_ it's been fertilized, and thus after gender is decided.  "If the roses should blush, how would you find it out?" -Mrs. Selwyn in "Evelina" by Burney http://edweb.concord.wvnet.edu/~deanca/book ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 13:33:42 -0700 From: cundiffg-+AT+-evansville.net To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: twins Message-ID: <335537A6.293F-+AT+-evansville.net> Sorry, I'm a newbie and haven't quite got the art (or time) to braid properly. I think this entire discussion is semantic. The word "identical" is used to mean "looks alike" in American English. When used to refer to twins it is a technical term for meeting certain conditions. Under the first meaning--sure different sex, "identical" twins. My sis and I look tremendously alike and were born 7 years apart. Identical -- close. Twins -- no. Under the second meaning, no way are fraternal / identical twins possible. Probably for sibs who want / envy the closeness that "identical" implies, I can understand the human urge to claim the "status." Maybe the original author should be forgiven and the incident forgotten. The "crime" is repeating how her relatives felt--warm and close and loving. How nice to have relatives like that. --Gina Vrondi wrote: > > > Virginia said: > > > Well, I can't say about the brat part but (g) I have MET different sex > > > identical Twins. > > Then, Familia Rincon Parra said: > > As in everything, twindom has a gray scale too. There isn't a > > cliff between fraternal and identical twins, it is like a slope, and they > > are probably very close to the border between fraternal and identical, on > > the fraternal side. > > there is no such thing as being close to identical. you're identical > or not. Identical twins begin with ONE fertilized egg that splits. > thus, they are exactly genetically the same. Fraternal twinsa start > totally differently. For fraternal twins, there were TWO separate > eggs that got fertilized at the same time. Genetically, fraternal > twins are no more alike or related than normal brothers and sisters. > It is impossible to have a set of identical twins that are a boy and > a girl, because the egg splits _after_ it's been fertilized, and thus > after gender is decided. >  > "If the roses should blush, how would you find it out?" > -Mrs. Selwyn in "Evelina" by Burney > > http://edweb.concord.wvnet.edu/~deanca/book -- Individual e-mail reply mailto:cundiffg-+AT+-evansville.net Discover Mesker Park Zoo http://www.evansville.net/~mpzoo Uncover an Official Bottom 95% Web Site http://www.evansville.net/~cundiffg/prequel.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 14:44:43 CST From: "CHRISTY GOLDBACH" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Twins Message-ID: <4B53EEB44E3-+AT+-cottey.edu> Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 08:25:44 +0100 (BST) Reply-to: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk From: "Ailsa n'ha Winifreyda" To: goldc970-+AT+-cottey.edu Subject: Twins >Aili wrote: Sorry, Virginia - it is AN UTTER BIOLOGICAL IMPOSSIBILITY for identical twins to be different genders. By it's very definition an identical twin was a half of one split cell and therefore has to be the same sex. Some researchers believe that to be truly identical the twins should be mirror images of each other. Now I have a very deep close loving relationship with Erica my twin - despite her claim that she was the wanted baby and I was the afterbirth. Then again I call her my walking organ bank!!!!! We live far apart so Telstra gets lotsa money from us. I must agree with Aili, take it from a fraternal twin with a twin brother that it is impossible to be different sex and still be identitical. I too am the afterbirth or so my brother calls me. I just say that I have to brain that is more developed. But it is impossible because of the same reason. Identical comes from the same cell that has split apart. Fraternal is from two different sperm and since it is the sperm that decides whether you are a girl or a boy, that is how you can be different sexes. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 14:56:31 CST From: "CHRISTY GOLDBACH" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: No Subject Message-ID: <4B570D9727E-+AT+-cottey.edu> Lord Trebor, YOU HAVE TO TAKE YOIURSELF OFF THE LIST!!! IF YOU READ THEM YOU WILL KNOW HOW TO!! MANY PEOPLE HAVE ALREADY TOLD YOU HOW TO!! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 15:48:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Lydia Hales To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Hi, Newbie, with (I hope) a new question... Message-ID: On Mon, 14 Apr 1997, Fireheart wrote: > If I'm not mistaken, according to the LHM series, It said that Jisa > could have a temporary bonding, so she could start training, but that it > would not be the permanent bond she would have gotten from Taver, had > she not married. But anyway... that's just IIRC. > > > >>. I thought that Jisa was Chosen Monarch's Own, even though she married the Heir. Anyone w/ a better memory, or the books...? Lady Lydia ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 15:58:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Lydia Hales To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: "Tie that woman down!" Message-ID: On Mon, 14 Apr 1997, Samantha Banker wrote: > > I always read that quote as "She's pregnant, AGAIN!?!" describing the > type of person who seems to be pregnant everytime you turn around. > > every time I read it, I get the impression that the mage in question has/ had an adventureous spirit, and tended to take dangerous risks. A thrillseeker of a sort. The Tale'dras she was talking to (Moonsong?) replied something about her "settling down" and not taking "flights into danger," or words to that effect. Sorry, no textved, my books are at home, and I'm at school. Perhaps she was a Skif-type; climbing into top story dwellings to leave unsigned notes.... :) Or maybe she just risked all for the safety of her Clan.... Lady Lydia ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 20:24:19 -0400 From: John Hagen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Brightstar's twin, An'desha Message-ID: <33556DAC.30F8-+AT+-snet.net> Shadowsong, you are certainly entitled to your opinion about Firesong. Sigh, opinions, there's very little changing them except over time and/or life experience. (G) Physically, An'de'sha was 17, chonologically, he was 35 or thereabouts. And yes, Featherfire did have magegift, and Van was always willing to oblige a Wingsib and a close friend. Or at least that's how I read him. Plus, I believe his siring of children took place between his lifebonds to Tylendel/Stefan. Lady Sara, LIG & Dryad Extraordinaire Hopeful Diety of All Marsupials, Past, Present & Future Avatar of the Great Wombat \\\\ * . * //// ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Apr 97 08:54:00 PDT From: Shidrati Binte Ali BEMSA To: mercedes-lackey Subject: Re: Hi, Newbie, with (I hope) a new question... Message-ID: <33564807-+AT+-nusnetgw1.nus.sg> Yep, she was suppose to be the MO after her mother's death. Kestrel ---------- From: mercedes-lackey To: bemsa Subject: Re: Hi, Newbie, with (I hope) a new question... Date: Thursday, April 17, 1997 12:08AM ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- On Mon, 14 Apr 1997, Fireheart wrote: > If I'm not mistaken, according to the LHM series, It said that Jisa > could have a temporary bonding, so she could start training, but that it > would not be the permanent bond she would have gotten from Taver, had > she not married. But anyway... that's just IIRC. > > > >>. I thought that Jisa was Chosen Monarch's Own, even though she married the Heir. Anyone w/ a better memory, or the books...? Lady Lydia ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 19:18:27 -0600 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Familia_Rinc=F3n_Parra?=" To: Subject: Re: twins Message-ID: <199704170113.TAA24111-+AT+-sol.racsa.co.cr> What I meant was a grayscale on appearances, not on genetics. You can be fraternal and look like mirror images. On the other hand, there are identical twins that have no more similarities than 2 casual aquaintances. ---------- > From: Vrondi > To: rinparra-+AT+-sol.racsa.co.cr > Subject: Re: twins > Date: Miércoles, Abril 16, 1997 10:31 AM > > > Virginia said: > > > Well, I can't say about the brat part but (g) I have MET different sex > > > identical Twins. > > Then, Familia Rincon Parra said: > > As in everything, twindom has a gray scale too. There isn't a > > cliff between fraternal and identical twins, it is like a slope, and they > > are probably very close to the border between fraternal and identical, on > > the fraternal side. > > there is no such thing as being close to identical. you're identical > or not. Identical twins begin with ONE fertilized egg that splits. > thus, they are exactly genetically the same. Fraternal twinsa start > totally differently. For fraternal twins, there were TWO separate > eggs that got fertilized at the same time. Genetically, fraternal > twins are no more alike or related than normal brothers and sisters. > It is impossible to have a set of identical twins that are a boy and > a girl, because the egg splits _after_ it's been fertilized, and thus > after gender is decided. >  > "If the roses should blush, how would you find it out?" > -Mrs. Selwyn in "Evelina" by Burney > > http://edweb.concord.wvnet.edu/~deanca/book ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 22:29:13 -0400 From: Virginia Eveland To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: No Subject Message-ID: <33558AF9.B5C5E63B-+AT+-erols.com> CHRISTY GOLDBACH wrote: > > Lord Trebor, > YOU HAVE TO TAKE YOIURSELF OFF THE LIST!!! IF YOU READ THEM > YOU WILL KNOW HOW TO!! MANY PEOPLE HAVE ALREADY TOLD YOU > HOW TO!! I tread lightly in posting this to the group but, While I heavily considered posting simularly to the group, I deffered, and posting something that,while sarcastic was not scathing in a personal e-mail, explaining why he had to unsubscribe and we couldn't do it for him. I only would express, think before you click the send button, you'll probably have second thoughts. (tired, well intentioned grin) -- Virginia Eveland SYX, AGML, LGW, BLA, OBSSE, GAWS Pretender, Bab5,and Misty Fan, Mill and XF Fanatic "If you're falling off a cliff, you may as well try to fly, you've got nothing to lose..." Captain Sheridan, Babylon 5 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 23:16:08 -0400 (EDT) From: SEANSQ-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Twins Message-ID: <970416231444_1187472514-+AT+-emout03.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-04-16 07:20:51 EDT, you write: << Va, who is still wondering about those fluffly sheep... >> Hi Va, welcome to the list!!! Have you seen the Newbie Fest? If not, Email Deniz privately at dsarik-+AT+-po-box.mcgill.ca and you will get it. All will be revealed to you then including (but not limited to ) our sheep thing. Meg Assistant to the God of New Homes specializing in Neighborhood Welcoming Committees (in training for) Knight of Amber and Marigold ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 04:04:01 -0700 From: Mark and Tracy To: Lackey list Subject: Cool spell checker fluff Message-ID: <3354B221.7458-+AT+-worldnet.att.net> For those you you who can't spell or just don't want to bother, there is a cool spell checker which will correct the text in any active window, so it should work in any software, including mail editors. It is at: http://www.nextgensoft.com/spell.html Chocolate covered anal-retentive correctly spelled sheep to you all. Mark C. __|__ / / Viking the Net \____\ for Wondrous Treasure! \_000|0000_/ ~~~~~\_\_\_\_\/~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ° ° ° ° ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 19:57:21 -0700 From: cundiffg-+AT+-evansville.net To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: An'desha Message-ID: <33559187.4F1C-+AT+-evansville.net> > Gina wrote: > > What I don't understand about An'desha is -- After being locked away for > > a ?hundred years without barely any stimuli at all, why is he so > > depressed in storms? when he is released, he seems more than ready to > > jump into life. Crystal E. Hewitt wrote: > I would hardly say that he had NO stimuli, just thankfully not the kind > that HE would enjoy/prefer. IMHO He could have vicariously enjoyed > Falconsbane's entertainment's, but refused to sink to that level. I would > say that even witnessing the small portion of filth that An'desha did would > unbalance even the most mature of people, and so his depression is just an > after-effect of all he had witnessed, and had HIS Body used to commit. No where in the books does ML indicate that he has sensory/ touch feeling. His stimuli IMHO, seems to be that of a first person perspective watching a TV show--which I don't class the same at all. (My dad used to make me watch Hee Haw with him. A nightmare itself, but one that I don't believe anyone including myself would blame me for. ;-) ) Immediately upon being "released" everyone affirms that he is not responsible. I don't understand the shift from from An'desha's attitude in Winds of Fury to Storms Warning. I can understand Firesong getting sick of his new attitude. Now, I liked An'desha in both Winds and Storms. I thought I understand his attitude--since I read the Storm books first. but then at the end of Winds/fury, I was lost as to how he made such a drastic transition w/o warning. Interesting that An'desha starts to lose interest in Firesong when --oops but is this a spoiler? I'll stop > With Love, guidance, and Time An'desha does "grow up" and the only time > that he really has a small relapse is at the end of the Storms trilogy > (don't want to "spoil" it for anyone ;)) Hmmm, I thought An'desha agonized over everybody thinking he should get over it. Gina -- Individual e-mail reply mailto:cundiffg-+AT+-evansville.net Discover Mesker Park Zoo http://www.evansville.net/~mpzoo Uncover an Official Bottom 95% Web Site http://www.evansville.net/~cundiffg/prequel.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 10:05:43 -0400 From: pronto-+AT+-adan.kingston.net To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: twins Message-ID: <33562E37.504A-+AT+-adan.kingston.net> Familia Rincón Parra wrote > You can be > fraternal and look like mirror images Very true!! My sister and I are fraternal twins, and only our close friends can tell us apart!! Even relatives have a hard time figuring out who is who. CeltCrow ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1174 **********************************