MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1191 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Falconsbane(kinda, sorta an Mage Winds spoiler) by debh-+AT+-skypoint.com (Deb Harrington) 2) Valdemaran Time Line- muddle by gogarten-+AT+-carrot.mcb.uconn.edu (Jennifer Y. E. Gogarten) 3) Re: Falconsbane(kinda, sorta an Mage Winds spoiler) by Chris & Sean Talbot 4) Re: Falconsbane(kinda, sorta an Mage Winds spoiler) by Warhammer 5) Re: US/questions-Storm Series/ by Lydia Hales 6) RE: Valdemaran Time Line- muddle by Crystal Hewitt 7) Re: Falconsbane(kinda, sorta an Mage Winds spoiler) by Warhammer 8) Re: Valdemaran Time Line- muddle by texs72-+AT+-webtv.net 9) Re: Falconsbane(kinda, sorta an Mage Winds spoiler) by pronto-+AT+-adan.kingston.net 10) Re: Falconsbane(kinda, sorta an Mage Winds spoiler) by RTeclectic-+AT+-aol.com 11) Re: Valdemaran Time Line- muddle by RTeclectic-+AT+-aol.com 12) Re: Valdemaran Time Line- muddle by gogarten-+AT+-carrot.mcb.uconn.edu (Jennifer Y. E. Gogarten) 13) Newbie by "Angeline Sim" 14) Reincarnation by "Angeline Sim" 15) Re: Valdemaran Time Line- muddle by 16) Re: Reincarnation by John Hagen 17) Re: Reincarnation by debh-+AT+-skypoint.com (Deb Harrington) 18) Topic Chats on the Last Herald Mage of Valdemar trilogy by "Tylendel " 19) Re: Valdemaran Time Line- muddle by RTeclectic-+AT+-aol.com 20) Re: Valdemaran Time Line- muddle by Jennifer Dorn 21) Re: Reincarnation by FireWurm-+AT+-aol.com 22) Re: Falconsbane(kinda, sorta an Mage Winds spoiler) by Chris & Sean Talbot ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 14:27:28 -0500 (CDT) From: debh-+AT+-skypoint.com (Deb Harrington) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Falconsbane(kinda, sorta an Mage Winds spoiler) Message-ID: Before I could read the Mage Storms my mom made me read The Mage Winds, she is a firm believer in reading thing in order. I thought it was interesting how Falconsbane was Lereath(sp?). I got to thinking could he have been Krebain as well? Bard Joey(Stephanie) debh-+AT+-skypoint.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 May 97 19:12:08 GMT-0500 From: gogarten-+AT+-carrot.mcb.uconn.edu (Jennifer Y. E. Gogarten) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Valdemaran Time Line- muddle Message-ID: <9705040012.AA07800-+AT+-carrot.mcb.uconn.edu> Hello! I'm new, but I had one burning question that I have not seen answered on any FAQs. In all versions of the Valdemar books (maybe only the later ones, a friend of mine has the Arrows triology, perhaps this wasn't in those) that I have encountered, I have seen the "OFFICIAL TIMELINE FOR THE HERALDS OF VALDEMAR SERIES", which states that: 1270 AF- Vows and Honour Duology 1376 AF- Kerowyn's Tale How could Tarma and Kethry (their duology is probably my favorite in the Valdemar universe, tho I liked Vanyel a lot as well) POSSIBLY still be alive over one hundred years later?? The impression that I got was that they were in their late teens-early twenties in the duology (born ~1250), which would make them about 130 years old at the time of teaching Kerowyn. Yes, I know that the timeline only suggests which reign the events occured in, but even if the Vows and Honour duology occured at the very end of Arden and Leesa's reign, and towards the beginning of the reign of Selenay, they would still be dramatically older than I thought they were portrayed in By the Sword. The only answer I can find is that Valdemar operates on a different calendar. If this took place on another planet (with a different system of years), then why would they be so remarkably human?? And I recall nothing to suggest that the years function differently than do ours, nor that Valdemarans live drastically longer than we terrans do. (the reign of each monarch is also designated at about 40-50 years, which is consistent with our calendar) If they were on a different calendar, that COULD explain it. Ideas anyone??? I am baffled and in need of a good explanation. (I *can* buy that Vanyel is in his mid fifties in Magic's Promise/Price, for instance, and Magic's pawn need not have happened at the very start of Elspeth's reign, either; but this has always been a bit much for me to swallow) I apologise if this has been brought up before, but I am curious as to what conclusion you came. "And me...your WORST nightmare!" Jennifer Y. E. Gogarten alias Grizelda the (Hasran) Ogress (*the* tireless champion of Joxer, Xenerd, virago, ecru power ranger, minor deity) (182!) "Why don't you wear chainmail?" "Nah, it'd just attract a kinkier group." >;D ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 19:54:24 -0400 From: Chris & Sean Talbot To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Falconsbane(kinda, sorta an Mage Winds spoiler) Message-ID: <199705032354.TAA14897-+AT+-relief.idirect.com> At 08:49 PM 5/3/97 +0100, you wrote: >Before I could read the Mage Storms my mom made me read The Mage Winds, she >is a firm believer in reading thing in order. I thought it was interesting >how Falconsbane was Lereath(sp?). I got to thinking could he have been >Krebain as well? > >Bard Joey(Stephanie) >debh-+AT+-skypoint.com It is highly unlikely that he was Krebain as well. Remember Leareth and Krebain were part of the same era and area. They were too close together in ages as well. What I mean that there hadn't been many years between Krebain and Leareth. Last of all I pictured Leareth as being older and wiser. That would account for all of his experience and magical knowledge. I think it said in one of the books that it took many years to gain the power back. This mage had much much more power then even Vanyel did. Vanyel was adept status and one of the most powerful that we saw. So it would have taken toom any years I believe for the power to get to Leareth. So I believe that Krebain and Leareth were not reincarnations of Maar. Aistes bonded to Kesta and Wiky ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 20:31:50 -0400 From: Warhammer To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Falconsbane(kinda, sorta an Mage Winds spoiler) Message-ID: <336BD8F6.EE2-+AT+-interpow.net> Deb Harrington wrote: > > Before I could read the Mage Storms my mom made me read The Mage Winds, she > is a firm believer in reading thing in order. I thought it was interesting > how Falconsbane was Lereath(sp?). I got to thinking could he have been > Krebain as well? > > Bard Joey(Stephanie) > debh-+AT+-skypoint.com Falconsbane WAS the mage who was killing off those who would have become Herald-Mages. At least it seemed that way in the book. I wonder why he was getting rid of those with the Mage-gift? Or was he using their power and then throwing them away? Just wondering... Warhammer ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 17:30:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Lydia Hales To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: US/questions-Storm Series/ Message-ID: On Thu, 1 May 1997, D H Tiffany/Shawn Marie Walker wrote: > "R. Barron" wrote: > > So Tremane is not > >bad, and the Emperor is not necessarily bad. The people of the Empire are > >just doing what their superiors tell them, and their superiors are just > >doing things the same way the Empire has done for years. > > > "I was only following orders" hmm. didn't work at Nuremberg. Not an adequate > defence I'm afraid. > > David Tiffany, Dog of tyoptys > >> I have a question for thought here.... If the people of the Empire were raised in a given tradtion, taught certain customs, obeyed laws; perhaps to them the behavior they engae in is not wrong. For example, for the early settlers in the U.S., it was not "wrong" to displace the "Indians," or to kill them out of hand if they dared try to defend their lands and customs. The "Indians" were seen as "evil, savages, primitives, etc." And the settlers had the right to take over the land, "civilize" them and "save" them; totally destroying their customs, not allowing them to pracitce their religion, etc. I have been taught that for an action to be a "sin," one has to know that it is wrong, and knowing that it is wrong, do it anyway. So, is the Empire's Manifest Destiny truly evil and wrong in their eyes? Look at this from the point of bview of some of Tremane's soldiers; their leader stayed with them when he could have used the Gate to escape back home (Storm Rising), he has taken a personal interest in their well- being. The citizens of Shonar; Tremane treats them as "his people," going out in blizzards to hunt for missing children, helping them bring in crops, respecting their local government (to a point). The Imperial Law is enforced on both soldiers and townsman alike. The Empire itself provides acuducts, Healers, law enforcement. I would bet for the average citizen, it may not seem like such a bad deal. (On the flip side, they also have mandatory service, but so does Sweden and Israel). Sorry this post is so long, but I just love philisophical debating. Lady Lydia (21 days until senior recital; may the Goddess of Music and Song bless her unworthy servant with the gifts of musicality and accuracy) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 20:43:05 -0400 From: Crystal Hewitt To: "'mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk'" Subject: RE: Valdemaran Time Line- muddle Message-ID: <01BC5802.9CAD1920-+AT+-TPhantom02> Heyla listsibs, In the Oathbound, when Keth & Tarma face down the other clan regarding Tale'sedrin being a dead clan or not, Keth mentioned that as a Sorceress she could prolong her child-bearing years with magic. It has also been stated that Sorcerors in general look young, and can live longer than normal folks. So, that would account for Kethry, I don't know what Tarma's excuss was. Hope this helps, Mysttree Hello! I'm new, but I had one burning question that I have not seen answered on any FAQs. In all versions of the Valdemar books (maybe only the later ones, a friend of mine has the Arrows triology, perhaps this wasn't in those) that I have encountered, I have seen the "OFFICIAL TIMELINE FOR THE HERALDS OF VALDEMAR SERIES", which states that: 1270 AF- Vows and Honour Duology 1376 AF- Kerowyn's Tale How could Tarma and Kethry (their duology is probably my favorite in the Valdemar universe, tho I liked Vanyel a lot as well) POSSIBLY still be alive over one hundred years later?? begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(-+AT+-H``0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!-+AT+-`(````Y 0```````#H``$(-+AT+- <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0-+AT+-36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````-+AT+-`"``$$ MD 8`Z $```$````0`````P``, (````+``\.``````(!_P\!````5P`````` M``"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````&UE4!H97)A;&0N M8V\N=6L`4TU44 !M97)C961E``(P M`0````4```!33510`````!X``S !````'0```&UE4!H M97)A;&0N8V\N=6L``````P`5# $````#`/X/!-+AT+-```!X``3 !````'P```"=M M97)C961E4!H97)A;&0N8V\N=6L` M`````-+AT+-'W7P$```!7`````````($K'Z2^HQ 9G6X`W0$/5 (`````;65R8V5D M97,M;&%C:V5Y0&AE4!H M97)A;&0N8V\N=6L```,`_5\!`````P#_7P`````"`?8/`0````0````````" M`6\!!( !`"$```!213H-+AT+-5F%L9&5M87)A;B!4:6UE($QI;F4M(&UU9&1L90`+ M"P$%-+AT+- ,`#-+AT+-```,T'!0`#`!0`*P`%``8`)-+AT+-$!(( #``X```#-!P4``P`4`"8` M-0`&`%$!`0F `0`A````,S%#1D,U0S%!.4,S1# Q,4$Q,C8P,#(P-S-+AT+-Q,#A# M0S$`^-+AT+-8!`Y &`/ &```A````"P`"``$````+`",```````,`)-+AT+-``````"P`I M```````#`"X```````,`--+AT+-``````0 `Y`.!]*"$D6+P!'-+AT+-!P``$````A```` M4D4Z(%9A;&1E;6%R86X-+AT+-5&EM92!,:6YE+2!M=61D;&4``````-+AT+-%Q``$````6 M`````;Q8)"$-+AT+-P<7/,L.I$="A)-+AT+-`-+AT+->!",P0``'-+AT+-`># $````%````4TU44 `` M```>`!\,`0```!P```!M>7-T=')E94!P:&%N=&]M2YC;VT``P`& M$#*E%3<#``<0*-+AT+-,``!X`"! !````90```$A%64Q!3$E35%-)0E,L24Y42$5/ M051(0D]53D0L5TA%3DM%5$-+AT+-F5$%234%&04-%1$]73E1(14]42$520TQ!3E)% M1T%21$E.1U1!3$53141224Y"14E.1T%$14%$0TQ!3D]23D\``````-+AT+-$)$ $` M``##`P``OP,``-D$``!,6D9U1L/BXW<`"-+AT+-$#`?<-+AT+-`J0#XP(`8X)H"L!S970P M( <330* ?0J ",-+AT+--+AT+-.PEO,LPU-0* "H%U8P!0"P,&8P!!"V!N9S$P,T(S"Z8-+AT+- M2&5Y"V -+AT+-BFP$`'0`D&)S+ JB!0J 20.-+AT+-=&AE($\&8190!N!U;F0L(!9W%F # MH$L/P&-+AT+--+AT+-)LP-+AT+-5 K `, -+AT+-9-+AT+-#0%G!H9&]W%C1O%E$%P&.U$\$-+AT+-"7!G"Q$+-+AT+-&<7 M\6AL922#Q!" #`_ =$F%G:6,N(!P-+AT+-205 #X >06QS;_\;01=A%5 6H!VV M'H0%L 0-+AT+-/1LA9PGP!) 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E`````````!X`/0`!````!0```%)%.B ``````P`--/TW``",FX4` ` end ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 20:51:03 -0400 From: Warhammer To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Falconsbane(kinda, sorta an Mage Winds spoiler) Message-ID: <336BDD77.1B82-+AT+-interpow.net> Chris & Sean Talbot wrote: > > At 08:49 PM 5/3/97 +0100, you wrote: > >Before I could read the Mage Storms my mom made me read The Mage Winds, she > >is a firm believer in reading thing in order. I thought it was interesting > >how Falconsbane was Lereath(sp?). I got to thinking could he have been > >Krebain as well? > > > >Bard Joey(Stephanie) > >debh-+AT+-skypoint.com > > It is highly unlikely that he was Krebain as well. Remember Leareth and > Krebain were part of the same era and area. They were too close together in > ages as well. What I mean that there hadn't been many years between Krebain > and Leareth. Last of all I pictured Leareth as being older and wiser. That > would account for all of his experience and magical knowledge. I think it > said in one of the books that it took many years to gain the power back. > This mage had much much more power then even Vanyel did. Vanyel was adept > status and one of the most powerful that we saw. So it would have taken > toom any years I believe for the power to get to Leareth. So I believe that > Krebain and Leareth were not reincarnations of Maar. > > Aistes bonded to Kesta and Wiky No, I think Leareth WAS Ma'ar in another body. Remember how Vanyel said that he looked like one of the Tayledras? Krebain? I really don't know. Just my thoughts. Warhammer ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 20:50:13 -0400 From: texs72-+AT+-webtv.net To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Valdemaran Time Line- muddle Message-ID: <199705040050.RAA19689-+AT+-mailtod-102.bryant.webtv.net> Heyla listsibs! In response to Jennifer's question on the timeline: If I am not mistaken, the dates given in the timeline were for the start of that particular monarch's reign, not for the date of the stories themselves. The timeline was just to show the relative time period of the stories. If you look at the time periods for the LHM series, you will see the first book in one monarch's reign and the other two in another monarch's (Randale). The dates are decades apart, and since Vanyel was only thirty-something, the dates themselves couldn't have corresponded to the story. Does this make any sense? I am trying to make it sound clear, and I think that I am failing :-&! Blessings all, Texie ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 20:48:07 -0400 From: pronto-+AT+-adan.kingston.net To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Falconsbane(kinda, sorta an Mage Winds spoiler) Message-ID: <336BDCC7.1C2D-+AT+-adan.kingston.net> Aistes bonded to Kesta and Wiky wrote: > So I believe that Krebain and Leareth were not reincarnations of Maar. < I seem to recall that when Falconsbane was in Hardon he was remembering his "glorious" past. In the list of previous incarnations, Learth was mentioned as being one of them...but Krebain was not. CeltCrow -o<= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 21:56:23 -0400 (EDT) From: RTeclectic-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Falconsbane(kinda, sorta an Mage Winds spoiler) Message-ID: <970503215623_214554036-+AT+-emout13.mail.aol.com> Acutally, if you do the math(i got obbsesed with this stuff for awhile so I know ages and stuff like that real well) Krebain could not have been Leareth because when Vanyel stripped the bandits minds he says and I quote."Rendan(The head bandit) 's father served him" So Master Dark (Leareth) has to be older than Vanyel who was at that time 36 years old, about the same age, If not younger than Rendan. And Krebain came when Vanyel was a teenager, approxamitly 20 years ago, no way Rendan's father could have served him, because Ma'ar still had to spend some time growing up. Thank you for listing to me squek -Regan Repairs Chief, U.S.S.Conquistidor Soon To Be (I Hope) Goddess of Spelling Mistakes( Happy now?) Oponant of a Wrriten Languge Disability Closet Philologist Seeker Kyr Nolae, bondmate of Qwue'la "If you don't know it, look it up!" -Anonymus ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 22:10:52 -0400 (EDT) From: RTeclectic-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Valdemaran Time Line- muddle Message-ID: <970503221051_549992262-+AT+-emout14.mail.aol.com> Vanyel is NOT in his mid-fiffties in magics price. I did the math one weekend he's 36 give or take a year. K&T are in their 20's in V&H. Also Sendar and Randi didn't live very long and Elspeth(Van's) was getting old in MP1 butit just fits, though not with that dating. Don' ask me who did the timeing for the timeline but they obiously did not really look at what they where doing. Whoever did that timeline needs to go back to 5'th grade, or younger( I have previously compleatly ignored the timeline) and learn reading comprehension and math. (hhey if a 16 year old can do better than you....) Sorry if its Msity, but I really doubt it was. Thanks-for-listing-to-me-squek -Regan Repairs Chief, U.S.S.Conquistidor Soon To Be (I Hope) Goddess of Spelling Mistakes Oponant of a Wrriten Languge Disability Closet Philologist Seeker Kyr Nolae, bondmate of Qwue'la "If you don't know it, look it up!" -Anonymus ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 May 97 22:52:42 GMT-0500 From: gogarten-+AT+-carrot.mcb.uconn.edu (Jennifer Y. E. Gogarten) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Valdemaran Time Line- muddle Message-ID: <9705040352.AA07923-+AT+-carrot.mcb.uconn.edu> >In response to Jennifer's question on the timeline: If I am not >mistaken, the dates given in the timeline were for the start of that >particular monarch's reign, not for the date of the stories themselves. Exactly- I *was* operating off of that assumption. But only if you say that Tarma and Keth were even at the very very end of the Co-consort Arden and Leesa reign, (say about 1314, exactly the year before the reign of Roald starts) and By the Sword occured at the very beginning of Selenay's Reign in 1376 (which it didn't, because it happened after the Heralds of Valdemar triology, I'm inclined to think BtS happened maybe 1385 or so), could this make any sense. Then Tarma and Keth would be 62 years older than they were in the original books, where they were maybe 20 (again, the most extreme scenario, probably more like 23-26). So the very youngest they could *possibly* be according to the timeline (throwing any good judgement or context into the wind) is 82. Tarma's pretty spry in this book for an 82-year-old, but I wouldn't put it past her (being Tarma and all). And this is not actually possible because while we don't know for sure that the duology did not happen in the VERY LAST year of the Arden and Leesa's reign, we DO know for sure that By the Sword certainly did not happen the FIRST year of Selenay's reign. I'm being somewhat conservative when I guess that there's at least 7 years added on to each side of that figure. Realistically, the youngest Tarma and Keth can be in By the Sword is their mid nineties. Which is remotely possible, but I find it somewhat difficult to believe in view of the description of the two that is given, although Keth can be explained by magic, as someone suggested. >Vanyel is NOT in his mid-fiffties in magics price. Of course, because that's assuming that the books happen on the year the reign of whatever ruler starts. >Don' ask me who did the timeing for >the timeline but they obiously did not really look at what they where doing. >Whoever did that timeline needs to go back to 5'th grade, or younger( I have >previously compleatly ignored the timeline) and learn reading comprehension >and math. (hhey if a 16 year old can do better than you....) Don't belittle my teenaged mind...I have consistently driven my math teacher crazy by asking her questions about things we're not supposed to know, because I have a penchant for math (confusing the rest of the class beyond hope). We "little people" are occasionally capable of grasping concepts, and a select few are able to put pieces of information together and make deductions at times. Actually, I could probably try to create a more realistic one by going thru all the books again, writing down what we know about the age, and putting together the pieces. I don't think it has something to do with anyone has education, it seems to have been slapped together hastily without really checking to see if it made sense. I agree tho, that this timeline is lacking, and what drives me crazy about it is that it's omnipresent. >Sorry if its Msity, but I really doubt it was. It *says* by Mercedes Lackey, but it's ambiguous whether they mean the Heralds of Valdemar Series or the timeline itself. I would not put this timeline past anyone who actually knew the series well, tho (and Misty obviously falls into that catergory by default) so unless it was done very late at night in a sleep induced haze, this timeline isn't likely to be hers. "And me...your WORST nightmare!" Jennifer Y. E. Gogarten alias Grizelda the (Hasran) Ogress (*the* tireless champion of Joxer, Xenerd, virago, ecru power ranger, minor deity) (182!) "Why don't you wear chainmail?" "Nah, it'd just attract a kinkier group." >;D ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 12:32:24 +0800 From: "Angeline Sim" To: Subject: Newbie Message-ID: <199705040434.MAA06485-+AT+-larkspur.singnet.com.sg> Heyla to one and all!!! I'm a newbie so forgive me if I seem to be babbling. In response to Jennifer's note on the Valdemaran timeline muddle... Yeah, I noticed the discrepancy as well. I had assumed that Kethry had those Adept Magics to boost her lifespan, and that Tarma had the Goddess to back her up. Coz, she had some work to do remember? I mean she had to teach Kero and Daran, so that all the events in "By The Sword" could happen, so that someone could train Elspeth, so that Elspeth would notice the funny things happening in Valdemar concerning magic, so that all the events in the Mage Winds Trilogy could happen, so that Firesong would come to Valdemar, so that he could save the Shin'a'in and Tayledras from a Mage Storm in Storm Rising, so that the Goddess woould still have followers. Am I making sense? All right so I admit that I may be reaching too far, but there is some kind of sense to it you know? At least to me.... So that's my 2 cents worth... Wind to Thy Wings Listsibs, Herald TG ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 12:48:04 +0800 From: "Angeline Sim" To: Subject: Reincarnation Message-ID: <199705040449.MAA10038-+AT+-larkspur.singnet.com.sg> Ok, dis is my view on the "Is Leareth really Falconsbane/ Krebain?" topic. I remember in WoFate, when Falconsbane was attacking the k'Sheyna Vale, he was kind of like thinking on how good it was to finally have his revenge on the Gryphons. From there, it was kind of obvious that he was Ma'ar in his past life. Somewhere in the same scene, he had mentioned that he had been Leareth in a past life as well. So Mornelithe Falconsbane had been Leareth. However, it is not possible that Krebain had been Leareth though they both battled Vanyel and all three of the characters (Falconsbane, Leareth, and Krebain) had liked to change their outward appearances in a kind of mage-plastic-surgery. Besides, Krebain and Leareth lived in the same time! How could they both share the same soul? (Not that they all had a soul to begin with...) Leareth had been in the North in the time of Vanyel's parents. He had been building up his power so he couldn't possibly have masqueraded himself as Krebain and attacked Vanyel even if he had wanted to test Vanyel's power. Plus even if he did he couldn't have Gated out without Vanyel knowing (he's sensitive to Gate-energy). So Krebain couldn't have been Leareth, cos Van killed Krebain and hence if the two were the same person, Leareth would have already been dead. OK, that's all I have for now (which I think sounds like crap) Clear Skies, listsibs! Herald TG ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 22:29:24 -0700 To: Subject: Re: Valdemaran Time Line- muddle Message-ID: <199705040551.WAA13315-+AT+-PEAK.ORG> ---- From: Jennifer Y. E. Gogarten To: sharree-+AT+-peak.org Date: Saturday, May 03, 1997 8:12 PM Subject: Re: Valdemaran Time Line- muddle >>In response to Jennifer's question on the timeline: If I am not >>mistaken, the dates given in the timeline were for the start of that >>particular monarch's reign, not for the date of the stories themselves. > Everyone forgets ONE very important thing. By the Sword happens to cover ALOT of time. >Exactly- I *was* operating off of that assumption. But only if you say that >Tarma and Keth were even at the very very end of the Co-consort Arden and >Leesa reign, (say about 1314, exactly the year before the reign of Roald >starts) and By the Sword occured at the very beginning of Selenay's Reign in >1376 (which it didn't, because it happened after the Heralds of Valdemar >triology, I'm inclined to think BtS happened maybe 1385 or so), could this >make any sense. Then Tarma and Keth would be 62 years older than they were >in the original books, where they were maybe 20 (again, the most extreme >scenario, probably more like 23-26). So the very youngest they could >*possibly* be according to the timeline (throwing any good judgement or >context into the wind) is 82. Tarma's pretty spry in this book for an >82-year-old, but I wouldn't put it past her (being Tarma and all). > By the sword probably started BEFORE Selenay's reign. Remember several YEARS pass before Kero is the captain of the Skybolts. I think the books mention that she and Selenay are close to the same age, Kero possibly being a bit younger. I think Tarma is between 60 and 70, she was old enough to where she wasn't teaching any more, except some speical cases, like Kero. >And this is not actually possible because while we don't know for sure that >the duology did not happen in the VERY LAST year of the Arden and Leesa's >reign, we DO know for sure that By the Sword certainly did not happen the >FIRST year of Selenay's reign. I'm being somewhat conservative when I guess >that there's at least 7 years added on to each side of that figure. > we do know that kero was a YOUNG woman when Selenay's First husband tried to murder her. it's mentioned in By The Sword. >Realistically, the youngest Tarma and Keth can be in By the Sword is their >mid nineties. Which is remotely possible, but I find it somewhat difficult >to believe in view of the description of the two that is given, although >Keth can be explained by magic, as someone suggested. > Actually they don't HAVE to be. Not if you assume that by the sword starts before Selenay's reign (as I think it does) and ends DURING it. Mar`Pai ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 10:31:17 -0400 From: John Hagen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Reincarnation Message-ID: <336C9DB2.2AE4-+AT+-snet.net> Angeline said, " However, it is not possible that Krebain had been Leareth though they both battled Vanyel and all three of the characters (Falconsbane, Leareth, and Krebain) had liked to change their outward appearances in a kind of mage-plastic-surgery. Besides, Krebain and Leareth lived in the same time! How could they both share the same soul? (Not that they all had a soul to begin with...) Leareth had been in the North in the time of Vanyel's parents. He had been building up his power so he couldn't possibly have masqueraded himself as Krebain and attacked Vanyel even if he had wanted to test Vanyel's power. Plus even if he did he couldn't have Gated out without Vanyel knowing (he's sensitive to Gate-energy). So Krebain couldn't have been Leareth, cos Van killed Krebain and hence if the two were the same person, Leareth would have already been dead." I have noticed this also, Angeline. Van kills Krebain, the mage who killed Staven, Tylendel's twin, driving Tylendel insane. Incidentally, Krebain's actions help out Leareth, who is up in the North creating his witch army, and extending his (Leareth's) life by feeding off the energies of his mages. Lady Sara, LIG & Dryad Extraordinaire ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 09:53:58 -0500 (CDT) From: debh-+AT+-skypoint.com (Deb Harrington) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Reincarnation Message-ID: >Angeline said, >Besides, Krebain and Leareth lived in the same time! How could >they both share the same soul? (Not that they all had a soul to begin >with...) Leareth had been in the North in the time of Vanyel's parents. But, it is possible for two relatives of Falconsbane to exist in the same times, both had changechild qualities. Krebain had definite(sp?) Falconsbane traits, talons and the cat slit eyes! Joey debh-+AT+-skypoint.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 May 97 15:01:59 UT From: "Tylendel " To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Topic Chats on the Last Herald Mage of Valdemar trilogy Message-ID: Good morning readers :). A few weeks back before MSN decided to have fun with e-mail, one of the folks on the list was nice enough to forward a message to everyone regarding an upcoming series of topic chats on the Last Herald-Mage trilogy. I was in the process of working with my team to find a method for those who are not members of MSN to attend the chats, and we were working on a simulcast to our web site. Unfortunately, MSN has been terribly stellar as of late, and we have had endless problems. We are going to be rescheduling the series, and I have much more news to pass along when we are ready to move it to the web instead of on the proprietary platform at MSN. After the recent mail upgrade, we were expecting the backlog of over 3 million messages to be delivered, and believe it or not, it is STILL being delivered to us, so many of you who had requested information, I am just receiving your requests over the past 3 days. (needless to say I am currently searching for an alternate method of mail delivery... I may even give Sympatico a try if Bell gives me a good rate.) So, I extend my apologies and thanks to those who wrote for more information, and I am hoping (but not holding my breath), that MSN will get mail fixed eventually. I will be following up with each of you soon with additional information, on a new platform for this event to take place. While I'm in a writing mood :), to answer a few questions stated earlier... I have found that amazon.com was not only fast, but reasonable priced in ordering various books by Ms. Lackey. Unfortunately, many stores in Toronto have not quite caught the hint yet, that carrying only the current top sellers doesn't always make for successes. I understand we are due for an outlet or two of Chapters and Barnes and Noble... but, in the meantime, we do have one place, The World's Biggest Bookstore... where I have managed to find many trilogies completely in stock... so I have much more reading to catch up on! As for locations, I've already given mine away, I live in Toronto, Canada, and I currently manage a telecommunications department for a global mutual fund company. A dear friend turned me on to the Valdemar series, and as I usually do, I've been searching out as much of Ms. Lackey's works as I can find. And folks, keep up the great work, I haven't had much time (or received much of the mail...ain't technology grand?) to reply to anything, but I really do enjoy reading the commentary! JimB. Tylendel01-+AT+-msn.com General Events Area Coordinator PlanetOut ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 12:20:39 -0400 (EDT) From: RTeclectic-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Valdemaran Time Line- muddle Message-ID: <970504122038_153865195-+AT+-emout04.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-05-03 23:43:39 EDT, you write: << >Don' ask me who did the timeing for >the timeline but they obiously did not really look at what they where doing. >Whoever did that timeline needs to go back to 5'th grade, or younger( I have >previously compleatly ignored the timeline) and learn reading comprehension >and math. (hhey if a 16 year old can do better than you....) Don't belittle my teenaged mind...I have consistently driven my math teacher crazy by asking her questions about things we're not supposed to know, because I have a penchant for math (confusing the rest of the class beyond hope). We "little people" are occasionally capable of grasping concepts, and a select few are able to put pieces of information together and make deductions at times. Actually, I could probably try to create a more realistic one by going thru all the books again, writing down what we know about the age, and putting together the pieces. I don't think it has something to do with anyone has education, it seems to have been slapped together hastily without really checking to see if it made sense. I agree tho, that this timeline is lacking, and what drives me crazy about it is that it's omnipresent. >> Actually the 16 year old is me.. but if you are too- you count. I wasn't belittling it I was Just saying that it dosn't reflect well on the person who wrote it(the timeline) That we can figure it out better than they can:) I am slightly better than most at math, but my real 'genius' spot is reading/comprehension, Last time they told me what it was when they tested me was 3rd grade(it was about the level of an 8th grader) now they just shake their heads and look shocked.::hehehe::: We make a good team that way..wonder what else is out there to find. Well theres the mage storms, when An'desha ahs bleached eyes in warning but in rising they have un-blaeched? and in my copy of the arrows trilogy , at least, its seems someone couldn't make up their mind on exactly what and how to spell talia's name. And does any one elses copy of magics price have the a double of two sentasnces (like this) <""Do you miss that, then?" Stef asked shyly, as if he was afraid to hear the answer, but had to ask the question." ""Do you miss that, then?" Stef asked shyly, as if he was afraid to hear the answer, but had to ask the question."> To go off on another topic altogeter I went and read the last straw essay/letter that Misty wrote, um would all (deadly) wackos please go drown or something, mabye get a reality check!!! Plits fiction not reality ::groan:: come one here, it ain't real!! Really, and its such a pity diana tregarde dosn't sell,'cause I loved them but I can see why she won't write anymore, especailly with those wackos behaving in such an abomidable manner( really the druggies at me school behave better, Middle school boys behave better, can anyone but me tell that I am mad ( at the wackos) Thank-You-For-Listing-To-Me-Squeke -Regan Repairs Chief, U.S.S.Conquistidor Soon To Be ( I Hope) Goddess of Spelling Mistakes Oponant of a Wrriten Languge Disability Closet Philologist Seeker Kyr Nolae, bondmate of Qwue'la "If you don't know it, look it up!" -Anonymus ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 May 1997 12:36:43 -0500 From: Jennifer Dorn To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Valdemaran Time Line- muddle Message-ID: <199705041741.MAA98036-+AT+-audumla.students.wisc.edu> At 04:13 AM 5/4/97 +0100, Jennifer wrote: >Leesa reign, (say about 1314, exactly the year before the reign of Roald >starts) and By the Sword occured at the very beginning of Selenay's Reign in >1376 (which it didn't, because it happened after the Heralds of Valdemar >triology, I'm inclined to think BtS happened maybe 1385 or so), could this Actually, if I recall, By the Sword begins *before* HofV starts. It ends after, but I always got the impression that BTS started before due to the training Kero recieves and the amount of time the book encompasses. It takes a while to train and become a merc, muchless become the merc captain. When it starts, isn't Kero a teenager? By the time the HofV is done, she's much older- she is Seleney's age. I know Seleney started her reign young, but I didn't think she was That young. Just a thought. I know someone did a timeline with all the characters on it once before on this list, but I can't remember who. ************** Also, on the question of Ma'ar and Leareth. Yes, Ma'ar did come back as Leareth. He was not, however, Krebain. ************** RTeclectic wrote: > And does any one elses copy of magics price have the a double of two >sentasnces (like this) ><""Do you miss that, then?" Stef asked shyly, YES! It has always driven me slightly insane. I HATE misprints. At least it's not just me. Well, gotta' go. Sheeps to everyone for the short post. Khala il rede he, Lady Guenevere Knight-errant of the OAM Witch and Keeper of Gargoyles Mistress of Firelizards and Dragons "I think to be this happy is to be miserable, to feel this much satisfaction is to burn." ~Lestat de Lioncourt jldorn-+AT+-students.wisc.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 14:13:38 -0400 (EDT) From: FireWurm-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Reincarnation Message-ID: <970504141337_-1734708244-+AT+-emout06.mail.aol.com> Joey said: > But, it is possible for two relatives of Falconsbane to exist in the same > times, both had changechild qualities. Krebain had definite(sp?) > Falconsbane traits, talons and the cat slit eyes! I always thought that Kerbain worked for Leareth. I don't know what gave me that impresion but wasn't there a part of the book that said that he was working for some one? anyone know what i'm talking about or am i going sico? RTeclectic wrote: > And does any one elses copy of magics price have the a double of two >sentasnces (like this) ><""Do you miss that, then?" Stef asked shyly, In the copy i get from the library it sais that but not in the newer on that i just bought. It also has less misprints. It seems they did another publication or something. Stallion Mind mate to Saa (who really wishes there was more to talk about) "I'm going slightly mad, It's finaly happed, happend , It's finaly happend, I'm slightly mad!!!!!!!!" -Queen ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 May 1997 15:06:23 -0400 From: Chris & Sean Talbot To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Falconsbane(kinda, sorta an Mage Winds spoiler) Message-ID: <199705041906.PAA06905-+AT+-relief.idirect.com> >> Krebain and Leareth were not reincarnations of Maar. >> >> Aistes bonded to Kesta and Wiky > >No, I think Leareth WAS Ma'ar in another body. Remember how Vanyel said >that he looked like one of the Tayledras? Krebain? I really don't >know. > >Just my thoughts. > > >Warhammer > Ooops sorry about that. Leareth we know it Maar but both of them were not, only Leareth was. Sorry about that. The last statement didn't come out the way I wanted it too. Sorry about the mis typing on my part and for the short post ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1191 **********************************