MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1201 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Swords of Ice by "Tanager" 2) Re: No Subject by RTeclectic-+AT+-aol.com 3) Introducing me by Molly 4) Re: Xena/Heralds gone bad/Kris by "Alex Y. Kwan" 5) Re: Xena/Heralds gone bad/Kris by Shidrati Binte Ali BEMSA 6) Re:Heralds gone bad by Cristilyn Lawton 7) Re: Heralds gone bad by "Alex Y. Kwan" 8) Re: Heralds gone bad by Ken Hyde 9) Bower- catching up by =?iso-8859-1?Q?Familia_Rinc=F3n_Parra?= 10) Re: Xena/Heralds gone bad/Kris by tora-no-yoro-+AT+-juno.com (David c neely) 11) Re: Introducing me by tora-no-yoro-+AT+-juno.com (David c neely) 12) Braid: Casting/Gifts/Tolkien/Religion by Ken Hyde 13) Re: Heralds gone bad by "Alex Y. Kwan" 14) Braid: Xena/Movie/Heralds gone bad/Kris/Question by Benjamin Kohler-Crowe 15) Re: Xena/Heralds gone bad/Kris by tora-no-yoro-+AT+-juno.com (David c neely) 16) Lores Was a Herald by 95662014 <95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk> 17) Re: Introducing me by 95662014 <95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 17:34:49 -0400 (EDT) From: "Tanager" To: Subject: Re: Swords of Ice Message-ID: On 05/13/97 at 21:21:38 MarcnBarb-+AT+-aol.com said: >Regarding Misty's writing style. I know what you mean!! >For example, her "Firebird" has none of the feel of the >Valdemar series. Perhaps, her many "collaborations" with >other authors is infectious. I agree to an extent. What was so great about Misty's earlier work was her great ability to create complex characters that feel real and who we can care about. The "Arrows" trilogy, "The Last Herald-Mage" trilogy, and the Tarma and Kethry stories all have as their primary strengths, IMHO, complete characters at their heart with feelings and motivations we can all understand. With the "Winds" trilogy, however, I thought the characters were too driven by the plot, unlike in her best stuff, and the story got way too complex and convoluted. She did reverse the trend with the "Storms" books, though, although they still didn't achieve the elegance of Talia's and Vanyel's stories and the "Diana Tragarde Investigations." _The_Fire_Rose_ is perhaps the first sign that she is getting back to her "classic" style that we all love. Like her earlier books, it was a character driven story, without having the feel of a rigidly plotted AD&D adventure (with the characters just plopped into it) that I feel plagued the "Mage Winds" trilogy. However, _Firebird_ is a different thing altogether. It's almost a different genre -- fairy tale rather than fantasy. Also, she was aiming to give it a real Russian feel, which I think she accomplished. It wasn't the standard British-American type of fantasy fiction that we have all gotten used to over the years. I'm not just talking about Misty here, but EVERY fantasy writer using the English language has this whole legacy going back to Tolkein and beyond that it's nearly impossible to escape -- but that's an entirely different issue. Tanager ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 19:12:24 -0400 (EDT) From: RTeclectic-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: No Subject Message-ID: <970513190840_611535312-+AT+-emout06.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-05-13 12:27:10 EDT, you write: << Who else would find a story of a herald going completly(sp) bad and being reputied (not just going crazy like Tylendle)? >> Theres a story about that? sorry bout the short post very little time about now <> never mind its not ashort post any more, that was really good,Yes I understand, and we have the choice to get hurt after all GOD gave us free will( well atlest in my religion, as yours may be different.) << I don't know if this has been discussed before, apologies if I'm beating a dead horse, but if any of Misty's novels were ever made into a movie or mini-series, who would be your dream cast? Who would you like to see as Van or Savil?>> Not sure maby adrian paul for Vanyel, Adn defitatly Stan Kirsch as Tylendel, I really wish they doo movies of the books I am sure it would work!( Then again I am something of an optimist) <> Well it wasn't till his twins death shattered his mind and then he really wasn't in reasonble shape, Even Vanyel with the bandits... <> Yes I thought of that before, makes sense does it not. Seeya, -Regan Repairs Chief, U.S.S.Conquistidor Soon to Be ( I Hope ) Goddess of Spelling Mistakes Oponant of a Wrriten Languge Disability Closet Philologist Fellow Crevic Dweller Knight errant of the Kingdom of Mercersyard Blessed Destroyer of weeds Seeker Kyr Nolae, bondmate of Qwue'la "If you don't know it, look it up!" -Anonymus ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 16:21:29 -0700 From: Molly To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Introducing me Message-ID: <3378F778.52C8-+AT+-sonic.net> Hi. I am just getting enough time in my ever so busy scedule(sp?) to introduce myself. My name is Molly. I am 15 and although I have only read the Heralds of Valdemar trilogy and Magic's Pawn I am already in love with the misty books. Wind to thy Wings Molly ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 18:02:47 -0700 From: "Alex Y. Kwan" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Xena/Heralds gone bad/Kris Message-ID: <33790F36.1E17-+AT+-earthlink.net> Tanager wrote: >[snip about Xena and such] > > I don't know if this has been discussed before, > apologies if I'm beating a dead horse, but if any of Misty's novels > were ever made into a movie or mini-series, who would be your dream > cast? Who would you like to see as Van or Savil? It had been discussed to death before, but who cares. I would want, oh, Leonardo DiCaprio to be Van or Tylendel. > ************************************************************************** > [snip about evil Heralds] > > On those occasions when a Herald > does do something bad, like Lores in _Magic's_Promise_, they aren't > repudiated because their Companions love them unconditionally and can > forgive a mistake. Lores wasn't a Herald, Tashir is. *And* Lores is evil, at least IMO. But I agree that a Herald can never become truly evil. The person would never been Chosen in the first place. No Companion would choose an evil person. Yes, I do think that all of us have the potential to do evil, but that's different than *being* evil. > ************************************************************************** > > Whoever said Kris was probably mage-Gifted -- Genius! I bet you're > right. We know now that Heralds with mage Gift were trained as if > they had the Sight. From what I gather, I don't think someone with > ordinary FarSight could See energy fields the way Kris did. I wish > I'd thought of it before. > > ************************************************************************** I hate doing 'What he/she said,' but I agree completely. > >I think. Therefore I am. I think. -I don't know the author. > > Rene Descartes was a drunken fart / I drink therefore I am. > -- Monty Python Lol. Rene Descartes didn't write that line. He would be much surer of himself. But still, love both lines. from little Alex Knight of OAM Fan of Misty Lackey and Anne Rice Trekkie, X-Phile, and Slash Lover ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 May 97 09:20:00 PDT From: Shidrati Binte Ali BEMSA To: mercedes-lackey Subject: Re: Xena/Heralds gone bad/Kris Message-ID: <3379E656-+AT+-nusnetgw1.nus.sg> Heyla all, Been reading some of the discussions........interesting discussions. I thought I'd give my $0.02 worth. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- On 05/13/97 at 17:29:10 Joe Lackey said: >Hey everyone, >I agree that Xena and Gabriale are alot like Tarma and Kethery(sp) But I >still feel that it is a major difference between Xena and Tarma is that Xena >is too sexual. Personally she reminds me more of Kero. Same here. I enjoy watching "Xena" and that was also my first thought upon seeing it. She is a lot like Kerowyn. However, if Xena is no Tarma, Gabrielle is certainly no Kethry! The extent of her abilities are reading Doric chant and whopping bad guys with a big stick. >>>> I'm not actually a fan of Xena while I've managed to catch a few episodes. I really don't think Xena is anything like Tarma or Kero and neither is Gabriale, Kethry. Why I say this, from the episodes I watched, neither of these two characters show much depth.....whereas, Tarma and Kethry are complex characters. Xena might fight well but something about her doesn't strike a cord.......maybe because of her irreverence to the Gods, Tarma on the otherhand is Swordsworn (her life dedicated to the Goddess). And from the episodes that I've seen, Grabriale just seem to wimpy and childish whereas Kethry has this air that mark her as a noblewoman and I always thought her as elegant yet not so blatantly sexy. **************************************************************** On that note -- anyone else think a Tarma & Keth movie could work? Of course it would never happen, but we can dream, right? Out of all the Velgarth characters, they would be the easiest to adapt to another medium. Some of her one-shot books like _Fire_Rose_ might work too, and maybe the two Left Coast Elf books could be adapted into a four- hour miniseries. :-) I don't know if this has been discussed before, apologies if I'm beating a dead horse, but if any of Misty's novels were ever made into a movie or mini-series, who would be your dream cast? Who would you like to see as Van or Savil? >>>>>Yes, it could work but I hope the producers would not mar the rich and colourful background of Velgarth with their somewhat unstable interpretation of things. Maybe someone can name a producer that is meticulous about details......the producers of Hercules are just the opposite of what I have in mind with their blatant disregard of the Greek culture of the time. If the movie does happen, I'd say Linda Hamilton should play Kethry........Linda from her Beauty and the Beast role, show much of the elegance and inner strength of Kethry and besides her role in Terminator 2, show that she can be physical when she needs to. ************************************************************************** >Who else would find a story of a herald going completly(sp) bad and being >reputied (not just going crazy like Tylendel)? I doubt it could ever happen. Anyone who had the potential to become really evil would never be Chosen. People who are bad to the core or just plain unstable don't become Heralds. Even if s/he were a Herald, having been Chosen would prevent that course of events from occurring. Few Heralds are a strong as 'Lendel to screen their thoughts so thoroughly from their Companion. On those occasions when a Herald does do something bad, like Lores in _Magic's_Promise_, they aren't repudiated because their Companions love them unconditionally and can forgive a mistake. But a Herald becoming truly evil? That, IMHO, would never happen, unless s/he had been driven mad. >>>>It has been mentioned in one of the books that besides 'Lendel, no other herald in the whole history of Valdemar was ever repudiated. I agree that no one with the potential for evil can be Chosen. ************************************************************************** Whoever said Kris was probably mage-Gifted -- Genius! I bet you're right. We know now that Heralds with mage Gift were trained as if they had the Sight. From what I gather, I don't think someone with ordinary FarSight could See energy fields the way Kris did. I wish I'd thought of it before. >>>>Interesting analysis. Possible since Kris is suppose to be closely related to the royal family....he was one of the candidates most likely to be heir before Elspeth was Chosen. This meant he probably descended from Vanyel too given his blood ties. And I think that the Gift is heriditary....so he just might have that. ************************************************************************** Well, that's all folks.....yebede, yebede(Porky's sound-alike). Wind to thy Wings. Kestrel ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 21:43:21 -0400 From: Cristilyn Lawton To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re:Heralds gone bad Message-ID: <337918B9.3671-+AT+-mindspring.com> > Tanager wrote: > > On those occasions when a Herald > > does do something bad, like Lores in _Magic's_Promise_, they aren't > > repudiated because their Companions love them unconditionally and can > > forgive a mistake. > > Lores wasn't a Herald, Tashir is. *And* Lores is evil, at least IMO > from little Alex > Knight of OAM > Fan of Misty Lackey and Anne Rice > Trekkie, X-Phile, and Slash Lover Hate to tell you this, but Lores was a Herald. His Companion was Jenna. He was just very badly misguided. The scene in Magic's Promise where Lores is beating a Companion he thinks is a demon mentions how badly he hurt his Companion by doing so. Herald Darla ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 19:15:01 -0700 From: "Alex Y. Kwan" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Heralds gone bad Message-ID: <33792025.3D25-+AT+-earthlink.net> Cristilyn Lawton wrote: [snip about my mistake] > > Hate to tell you this, but Lores was a Herald. His Companion was Jenna. > He was just very badly misguided. > > The scene in Magic's Promise where Lores is beating a Companion he > thinks is a demon mentions how badly he hurt his Companion by doing > so. Oops, thanks. I was thinking of the guy who looks really like an older Tylendel. Have to change my position then. Lores isn't evil, he's just very close-minded and very *stupid*. But I don't think he's evil, just making a huge mistake. And I maintain my other point that 'we all have potential to *do* evil, but that's different than actually *being* evil.' So no evil person would ever be Chosen. from little Alex Knight of OAM Fan of Misty Lackey and Anne Rice Trekkie, X-Phile, and Slash Lover ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 22:47:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Ken Hyde To: Misty Lackey List Subject: Re: Heralds gone bad Message-ID: On Wed, 14 May 1997, Alex Y. Kwan wrote: > Lores wasn't a Herald, Tashir is. *And* Lores is evil, at least IMO. Lores is a Herald. Textevd can be found in Magic's Promise (pp. 147-152 DAW). > But I agree that a Herald can never become truly evil. The person would > never been Chosen in the first place. No Companion would choose an evil > person. Yes, I do think that all of us have the potential to do evil, > but that's different than *being* evil. But what about someone who was not evil to start with, but became evil? I have argued this before, but I will bring it up again. I think that this is exactly what happened with Tylendel. He was not an evil person when he was chosen, but he became evil after the death of his twin. His insanity pushed him over the brink into true evil. The same could be said of Lores, although his "evil" was not so great as to merit repudiation. Of course, this depends on the idea that evil and good are not "essential" properties of human identity. In other words, people are good or evil based on what they do and not on some abstract essence of "being." Otherwise, you could argue that Tylendel was essentially good, but that his actions didn't match his identity. Of course, the weakness with this line of reasoning is that the same argument can logically be applied to disculpate Ma'ar ("He was essentially good, but his actions didn't match his identity"). You could also apply the same argumentation to Vanyel and claim that he was essentially evil, but his actions didn't reflect it. I am not really happy with this line of reasoning. Nor do I think Misty is. To support this claim, I point out that she has on at least one occasion provided textevd for a "doing" definition of good and evil. Specifically, I am thinking of the quote from the Writ of Vkandis to the effect that "He who does good in the name of another god, does it for Vkandis, and he who does ill in the name of Vkandis, does it for the darkest demons in hell." (SW p. 217 DAW). It is not enough to be a devout follower of Vkandis, to be considered "good." Nor is being an "infidel" sufficient reason to be considered "evil." This suggests that, at least in the Karsite religion, good and evil are a matter of "doing" and not "being." Further evidence can be found in Tylendel's repudiation and "redemption." When he is "doing" a great evil, Gala repudiates him. However, after he has come to his senses and committed suicide in remorse (doing), the other Companions ring the Death Bell for him, suggesting that he is once again one of the good-guys. Anyway, there you go. That's my take, for what it's worth. May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd, Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me **http://www.udel.edu/kenny/ken.html or .../kenny/green.silences.html** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 21:04:33 -0600 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Familia_Rinc=F3n_Parra?= To: "'mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk'" Subject: Bower- catching up Message-ID: <01BC5FE2.FCA5C060-+AT+-pionero4-a2.racsa.co.cr> ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC5FE2.FD246640 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hearing through the veil on her mini glade, Ravenwing dropped out of = her hammock and walked to her scrying pool. Aiming for the noise, she = discovered that while she was sleeping, a party had started,=20 -Shaeka! And it started without me.=20 Straighteninng her tunic, she thanked the Lady for the property of black = clothing, that didn't show wrinkles. picking up a few things as she ran = to the entrance. She whistled to her bondbird Mica, who flew above = her, chiding Ravenwing for her lack of organization. Before she burst out into the glade, Raven skidded to a halt, composed = herself, and gracefully stauntered out into the glade, She went to = Webby first, and gave her a small black velvet bag, with a "W" embossed = in the front. -Webby, sorry for the belated gift, but i was caught in the Timeless = Void (That void created by the lack of time to do anything even mildly = related to fun). Inside this bag, is a Hole. Not any ordinary hole, but = a portable one. It will stretch out to any size you need, and is useful = to dispose of unwanted people. You can close it up and move it, and no = matter what you put in it, it will always fit in the bag. A warning, = though. you can put valuable objects in it as long as you remember the = exact spot where you put them, in order to set your Hole in the same = place to retreive them. otherwise, thay will be lost, no matter how deep = you dig. Ravenwing moved towards Undine, and out of her pocket came out a = small block of ice, or so it seemed. -Undine, this small block of mageglass can be transformed to anything = you want it to. The block is composed of atoms, where the electrons, = neutrons and protons are stuck together, with no space between them, = that is why you can make the objects as big as you want them too. The = setback is that the bigger the object, the mageglass looses some of its = indestructibility, and there is a greater possibility of it getting = damaged, collapsing into itself, and it will take at least 5 months in = order for it to be usable again. She went to Tresta next, and Mica dropped from her beak a small vial = into Ravenwing's hand, who in turn put it into Tresta's cupped hands. -Tresta, What I shall give you is different from the rest of gifts, = because it is a weapon in a way. In this vial is disease. Write on the = reusable label the name of the person you want to fall sick, followed = by the disease you want them to get. This vial also gives you immunity = to any disease that exists anywhere, unless you keyed the sickness unto = yourself. As soon as you reclose the vial after releasing the sickness, = the label will turn blank again.=20 Ravenwing took a pouch out of her sleeve. She gave it to Tresta too. -Here is the antidote. Write in a slip of paper the name of the person = you want to cure, and stuff it in. She will get cured of the disease. = Anything you can cure, except death itself, or hurt done by weapons.=20 Ravenwing smiled to each, and sat down to see how the party proceeded, = grinning sheepishly at the loooong post. In order to make up for it, she = offers everyone a bottle of frothy chocolate wine, and sighs happily, = glad to be of help. 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I was sitting here thinking about actors and actresses to play part and something dawned. I think that --Hudson Leick-- the woman who plays Callisto on Xena would be the perfect KEROWYN. She can act, she has the physical skills and she's a blonde. Night Tiger ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 21:48:07 EDT From: tora-no-yoro-+AT+-juno.com (David c neely) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Introducing me Message-ID: <19970513.214451.5263.2.tora-no-yoro-+AT+-juno.com> Hi Molly, I'm new myself to this list. Only been on since05-12-97. But I've been having a great time. Night Tiger On Wed, 14 May 1997 00:31:22 +0100 (BST) Molly writes: >Hi. I am just getting enough time in my ever so busy scedule(sp?) to >introduce myself. My name is Molly. I am 15 and although I have only >read the Heralds of Valdemar trilogy and Magic's Pawn I am already in >love with the misty books. > >Wind to thy Wings >Molly > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 00:23:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Ken Hyde To: Misty Lackey List Subject: Braid: Casting/Gifts/Tolkien/Religion Message-ID: On Tue, 13 May 1997, Tanager wrote: >>>I don't know if this has been discussed before, apologies if I'm beating a dead horse, but if any of Misty's novels were ever made into a movie or mini-series, who would be your dream cast? Who would you like to see as Van or Savil?<<< This is a recurring thread, but it is always interesting (well, except for when it is resurrected less than a week after it dies down). Anyone who is interested can find the "Master Cast List" on Jag's home page, IIRC. Here are some suggestions, though: Kethry: Gwyneth Paltrow (specifically, her "Emma" turn). Tarma: Anjelica Huston or Cher (if she can learn sword fighting) Savil: Lauren Bacall (is she still around?) Van: David Lee Murphy (I don't know if he can act, but he looks perfect). >>>On those occasions when a Herald does do something bad, like Lores in _Magic's_Promise_, they aren't repudiated because their Companions love them unconditionally and can forgive a mistake.<<< I think that Tylendel's case pretty much proved that a Companion's love is not "unconditional." Although, I suppose you could argue that Gala still loved 'Lendel, she just didn't accept him as her Chosen any more. >>>We know now that Heralds with mage Gift were trained as if they had the Sight. From what I gather, I don't think someone with ordinary FarSight could See energy fields the way Kris did. I wish I'd thought of it before.<<< What is the evidence for these claims? As I understand it, there weren't many mage-gifted Heralds in Valdemar until after Elspeth returned. Also, if the energy fields that Kris Saw were the ones involved with training Talia to ground and center, then it seems unlikely that he was using Mage-Sight. After all, what he was seeing was something to do with mind-magic and and not mage-gift. Then on Tue, 13 May 1997, Tanager also wrote: >>>It wasn't the standard British-American type of fantasy fiction that we have all gotten used to over the years. I'm not just talking about Misty here, but EVERY fantasy writer using the English language has this whole legacy going back to Tolkien and beyond that it's nearly impossible to escape -- but that's an entirely different issue.<<< I would disagree with the contention that "it's nearly impossible to escape [the European fantasy model]. There is a very large body of fantasy literature that does not draw on the Anglo-Celtic legacy of Tolkienian fantasy. Writers such as Hughart, Schwartz, Tarr, Brust, Deitz, Feist and Wurts, Scott, and others have drawn on Middle-Eastern, Oriental, Native American and other traditions to create their fantasy worlds. Others, such as Eddings, Mayhar, Wrede (to some extent), and Hoffman have built elaborate fantasy worlds that owe little to the Tolkienian model. And actually, I would argue that most of Misty's work is non-Tolkienian. Certainly, the Velgarth books are vastly different from Tolkien's work, both in world-building and plotting. Admittedly, she is clearly drawing on European feudalism (massively changed, of course) as the basis of the Valdemaran style of government and social organization. And she uses the Anglo-Celtic tradition for her "elves" in the books about Eric, Kory and Beth. However, I think that one of Misty's strengths has always been that she is not derivative of Tolkien (or anyone else, particularly). She has her own unique voice, rooted in the Anglo-Celtic tradition maybe, but definitely her own. Finally, on Wed, 14 May 1997, Regan wrote: >>>never mind its not ashort post any more, that was really good,Yes I understand, and we have the choice to get hurt after all GOD gave us free will( well atlest in my religion, as yours may be different.)<<< May I make a request? Based on the really unpleasant religion thread that occured only a few months ago, could we confine religious discussions to the religions of Misty's worlds and leave out the statements of personal religious beliefs in the real world? In the past, every time people have started discussing their religious beliefs, it has led to flaming and other unpleasantness. I would hate to see another flame-war like the last one (which ended up with at least one person being removed from the list for unacceptable behavior, and caused many people to leave in disgust). May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd, Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me **http://www.udel.edu/kenny/ken.html or .../kenny/green.silences.html** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 21:26:24 -0700 From: "Alex Y. Kwan" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Heralds gone bad Message-ID: <33793EEF.6BA9-+AT+-earthlink.net> First, a private hello to Cennydd. How're you doing, bowersib? Ken Hyde wrote: > > On Wed, 14 May 1997, Alex Y. Kwan wrote: > [snip about little mistake] > > Lores is a Herald. Textevd can be found in Magic's Promise (pp. 147-152 > DAW). Thanks. Someone already pointed it out. > [snip long post about doing evil make one evil] > Anyway, there you go. That's my take, for what it's worth. Trust me, it's worth much more than most people's, especially those yelping politicians up there. Okay, about original topic. To me, humans are fundamentally 'good.' All humans are. If we did bad stuff, it's because we were misguided, whatever, at the time, not because we can intentionally be evil, or even do evil. Even Falconsbane can't be 'evil.' He did what he thought is the 'right' thing to do. That 'right' thing was selfish, was bad for others, but if Falconsbane truly, truly realize what he's doing, what significane his deeds hold, he wouldn't have done it. I have to maintain that human 'nature' is good, I have to believe in that. Because if we can't trust ourselves, the human race, who can we believe in? A god figure that says that we are all 'sinners'? That the only way to 'Good' is through belief in him? Sorry, I place my bet on the humans. I believe that *we* have the ability to 'create a better tomorrow' through efforts of our own. For me, I have to place my faith in the basic 'goodness' of humans. Because without that, my system will fall apart. It's not a matter of opinion to me, it's a matter of life and death. For if human 'nature,' meaning my nature, isn't good, and I don't have 'ten commandements' from some god figure to tell me what to do, why shouldn't I go ahead and do all evil things I want to do? Why shouldn't I just rob the bank to get money, or hijack a car that I sees and like? Why shouldn't I? But I don't do those things, why? It's not 'cause it's inconvenient for me to do so, but because my basic nature is good. I *don't* want to do those things because these acts will hurt other people. I have to place my trust in my own goodness, and in this act, place also my trust on the goodness on all human beings. Well, if that isn't a ramble, I don't know what is. Sheeps to anyone pissed about this mess. Wind to thy Wings, listsibs from little Alex Knight of OAM Fan of Misty Lackey and Anne Rice Trekkie, X-Phile, and Slash Lover ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 23:27:43 -0700 From: Benjamin Kohler-Crowe To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Braid: Xena/Movie/Heralds gone bad/Kris/Question Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970507062743.00694768-+AT+-garlic.com> On Xena: I agree that they are similar. here are some parallels I've thought up: Well, obviously, the dark-haired warrior woman and her blond companion... Tarma was a singer, and I believe Xena sung a couple times, but I'm not sure... In hand-to-hand physical combat, neither Kethry or Gabrielle are very good; their talents are elsewhere... Kethry was noble; Gabrielle had some training in a recent episode, when she was to be married to the dead king. (OK, it's a bit of a stretch :) Um, someone mentioned the horses already... And that's about it. Yes, I realize their also different, but if they were exactly the same, Misty would have noticed, and changed them. After all, Xena came first, by -what- a few thousand years? ;] And, actually, you will see a lot of ideas from xena in other things from many times periods. Read the E-pouches at the xena website if you're curious. (one of the members of the Xena restoration Society has a dead Granma who had always told her about how the stories of Xena were everywhere, and she died before the scrolls were discovered.) ************************************************************************** >On that note -- anyone else think a Tarma & Keth movie could work? I think that, at least of the Velgarth books, Tarma and Kethry would be the most likely for a movie- partly because they require less prior knowledge (of Companions & such), and a little even because of the similarities to Xena and it's success. But the only people that might make them are the BBC- they made other cool stuff like the Hitchiker's guide to the Galaxy & (I think) the first 4 Narnia books into movies. But it's not likely. ************************************************************************** >Anyone who had the potential to become >really evil would never be Chosen...Even if s/he were a Herald, >having been Chosen would prevent that course of events from occurring. I remember Van thinking about Yfandes' love for him after attempting suicide, and the pain that the thought of her being left behind caused him- I think that that love is enough to keep Heralds from evil. Kinda like preventing an adult version of Failure to Thrive. ************************************************************************** >Whoever said Kris was probably mage-Gifted -- Genius! Thank you, that would be me. I started with the LHM trilogy (read 'em in 3 days) and then devoured AotQ, so when I got there, magic was still fresh in my mind. When he was looking at Talia ground, I thought "How could he see that?!? Unless... He's mage gifted! I had, however, not realized the royal connection. ************************************************************************** >I think. Therefore I am. I think. -I don't know the author. Um, I heard "I think. Therefore I think I am. I think." in a movie once, but I don't remember what. I'm pretty sure, though, that it was the high point of the movie, at least for me. ************************************************************************** Krebain/Leareth: I had thought that Krebain _had_ been another incarnation of Ma'ar, just because of the similarities in style. But, I guess, he is probably just another evil changechild, because otherwise Leareth would have been around 20... oh well. I guess not _every_ bad guy can be the _same_ UPE (Ultimate Personification of Evil). ************************************************************************** Um, that's about all I have to say... I had some Questions, but I can't remember them... so... [racking brain for an OBMisty]... Hey! I asked this a while back, but I didn't get an answer, because someone responded wrongly, people told him he was wrong, but never told me the right answer. Where did the name Velgarth come from? I don't _remember_ ever reading it in any of the books! Was it something you guys made up? (It doesn't seem to be an acronym, either.) ************************************************************************** Sorry that I took so long! I guess I just like to ramble, especially if someone's willing to listen ;} Oh yeah! Hey, Brian, are you recieveing listmail yet? I know you said you signed up, but sometimes computers act in strange ways... Bye people! Have a nice day/life/whatever (or don't, it's your choice. [shrug]). Benjamin David Kohler-Crowe (Ben) benkc-+AT+-garlic.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 21:34:46 EDT From: tora-no-yoro-+AT+-juno.com (David c neely) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Xena/Heralds gone bad/Kris Message-ID: <19970513.213131.5263.0.tora-no-yoro-+AT+-juno.com> Personally she reminds me more of Kero. > >Same here. I enjoy watching "Xena" and that was also my first thought >upon seeing it. She is a lot like Kerowyn. However, if Xena is no >Tarma, Gabrielle is certainly no Kethry! The extent of her abilities >are reading Doric chant and whopping bad guys with a big stick. Certainly Gabrielle is no Kethry. The Kethry I know and love is far to confident and self-aware to be a tag along. Kethry is a partner not a follower. >On that note -- anyone else think a Tarma & Keth movie could work? Of >course it would never happen, but we can dream, right? Out of all the >Velgarth characters, they would be the easiest to adapt to another >medium. Some of her one-shot books like _Fire_Rose_ might work too, >and maybe the two Left Coast Elf books could be adapted into a four- >hour miniseries. :-) I don't know if this has been discussed before, >apologies if I'm beating a dead horse, but if any of Misty's novels >were ever made into a movie or mini-series, who would be your dream >cast? Who would you like to see as Van or Savil? We can only dream about these being made into movies. >************************************************************************** > >>Who else would find a story of a herald going completly(sp) bad and >being >>reputied (not just going crazy like Tylendel)? > >I doubt it could ever happen. Anyone who had the potential to become >really evil would never be Chosen. People who are bad to the core or >just plain unstable don't become Heralds. Even if s/he were a Herald, >having been Chosen would prevent that course of events from occurring. >Few Heralds are a strong as 'Lendel to screen their thoughts so >thoroughly from their Companion. On those occasions when a Herald >does do something bad, like Lores in _Magic's_Promise_, they aren't >repudiated because their Companions love them unconditionally and can >forgive a mistake. But a Herald becoming truly evil? That, IMHO, >would never happen, unless s/he had been driven mad. > >************************************************************************** > >Whoever said Kris was probably mage-Gifted -- Genius! I bet you're >right. We know now that Heralds with mage Gift were trained as if >they had the Sight. From what I gather, I don't think someone with >ordinary FarSight could See energy fields the way Kris did. I wish >I'd thought of it before. > >************************************************************************** > >>I think. Therefore I am. I think. -I don't know the author. > >Rene Descartes was a drunken fart / I drink therefore I am. > -- Monty Python > >>Sorowheart k'Marra > >Tanager > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 11:02:42 +0100 From: 95662014 <95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk> To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Lores Was a Herald Message-ID: <2D207085099-+AT+-ghondr.mmu.ac.uk> "Alex Y. Kwan" wrote > Lores wasn't a Herald, Tashir is. *And* Lores is evil, at least IMO. > But I agree that a Herald can never become truly evil. The person would > never been Chosen in the first place. No Companion would choose an evil > person. Yes, I do think that all of us have the potential to do evil, > but that's different than *being* evil. Sorry to contradict but Lores most definately was a Herald. If you remember his Companion was in a state of shock because of the conflict she was in over trying to stop Lores whipping Tashirs Companion. After Van Gated back to Ashkevron Manor he had a conversation with Savil about Lores and how he was going to take a long time to get back to Haven because his Companion was going to play injured all the way from Highjorne[sp?] ************************************************ Zha'hai'allav'a Kalen Shena Vuysher'edras Kal'enedral [OIB](AKA Jason Stokes) 95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk "If we shadows have offended, think but this and all is mended. That you have but slumbered here While these visions did appear". *Puck, Midsummer Nights Dream* ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 11:13:59 +0100 From: 95662014 <95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk> To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Introducing me Message-ID: <2D236E87223-+AT+-ghondr.mmu.ac.uk> > On Wed, 14 May 1997 00:31:22 +0100 (BST) Molly writes: >Hi. I am just getting enough time in my ever so busy scedule(sp?) to >introduce myself. My name is Molly. I am 15 and although I have only >read the Heralds of Valdemar trilogy and Magic's Pawn I am already in >love with the misty books. > >Wind to thy Wings >Molly Be welcome amongst us Molly We are a friendly bunch [usually] and are always glad when new people read Misty and then join with us May the Blessing of the Goddess be upon you. > ************************************************ Zha'hai'allav'a Kalen Shena Vuysher'edras Kal'enedral [OIB](AKA Jason Stokes) 95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk "If we shadows have offended, think but this and all is mended. That you have but slumbered here While these visions did appear". *Puck, Midsummer Nights Dream* ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1201 **********************************