MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1219 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Adepts, et al by Lynne Markova 2) Re: Adepts, et al by Greg Wooledge 3) Re: Adepts, et al + Kero and Eldan (not the lifebond thread) by Eleonora Scoseria 4) Re: if you're interested... by TaliaRolan-+AT+-aol.com 5) Howdy from Misty virgin! (wait... that didn't come out right!) by Skybolt 6) Re: Adepts, et al + Kero and Eldan (not the lifebond thread) by Silvrhwk1-+AT+-aol.com 7) Long Braid by "Nightdancer P." 8) Re: Kero and Eldan/timeline/Van as MO/Rolan+Roald/Tannim by "Angeline Sim" 9) Re: Kero and Eldan/timeline/Van as MO/Rolan+Roald/Tannim by Mark & Tracy 10) Akiko by AERDEN-+AT+-delphi.com 11) Kero+Eldan/New Book???/MO Hearalds by FireWurm-+AT+-aol.com 12) Re: braid: re-incarnation/MO Heralds/next book etc. by "Tanager" 13) Textevd, please!/Companions/Firecats/Brightly Burning by Ken Hyde 14) forthcoming books/Roald/Grove-born/ by "John and Kara Pekar" 15) Re:Adept manifestations tannim and rolan by RTeclectic-+AT+-aol.com 16) Re: Textevd, please!/Companions/Firecats/Brightly Burning by Cristilyn Lawton 17) Re: braid: re-incarnation/MO Heralds/next book etc. by "JAIME HATHAWAY" 18) Re: the gay thing by Hamlet 19) Re: Randale's illness by Hamlet 20) Re: Textevd, please!/Companions/Firecats/Brightly Burning by "Daniel O'Neal" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 16:46:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Lynne Markova To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Adepts, et al Message-ID: The Goddess of Music and Song emerges from lurkerdom long enough to reply: RE: Adepts I believe that the difference between a Master and an Adept in Kethry's tradition was that an Adept was able to draw on sources of energy from *without* rather than within. I seem to remember Kethry drawing on the anger of the Skybolts when fighting Idra's evil brother - his name escapes me. She was able to do a lot more, than when she could only draw on her own magical resources. Also, she had an Adept manifestation, even though I only heard of her using it once. I believe it was a hawk? Lady Sophia, trilling away Goddess of Music and Song ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 20:44:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Greg Wooledge To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Adepts, et al Message-ID: On Thu, 29 May 1997, Lynne Markova wrote: > I believe that the difference between a Master and an Adept in Kethry's > tradition was that an Adept was able to draw on sources of energy from > *without* rather than within. I haven't read all the books yet, but I think somewhere in the Winds trilogy it is stated that: * An Apprentice can only use his/her own personal energy reserves * A Master can tap the ley lines for energy * An Adept can tap the nodes for energy ------------ Greg Wooledge ------------- ------- wooledge-+AT+-kellnet.com ------- --- http://kellnet.com/wooledge/main.html --- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 22:25:44 -0300 From: Eleonora Scoseria To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Adepts, et al + Kero and Eldan (not the lifebond thread) Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970528222544.007eea10-+AT+-nicasio.distrinet.com.uy> At 01:05 AM 29/05/97 +0100, the Goddess of Music and Song emerged from lurkerdom long enough to reply among other things: >RE: Adepts > >Also, she (Kethry) had an Adept manifestation, even though I only heard of her >using it once. I believe it was a hawk? Ele also emerges from lurkerdom as well to wave at all the new people she has not greeted and to rePOUNCE all those who might still remember her. Lady Sophia: I think your point about the adept manifestation is interesting. In their arcane duel in OBreakers, both Keth and the adept she fights have adept manifestations (yes, IIRC hers was a hawk and his was a winged serpent), but then I don't remember any other of the adepts we learn about throughout the series as having that kind of manifestations. Can it be one of those things Misty puts in and then seems to forget about? Or does it appear somewhere else and my sieve-like memory cannot come up with other instances? Now, about Kero and Eldan, I have been wondering....and no, don't run for cover, I am not wondering if they are lifebonded =). I know it is a done to death topic. What has me puzzled is those dream encounters Kero and Eldan have, and which Eldan admits at the end of BTS, that were somehow his doing. However, I cannot see what gift could actually account for those dreams. They are both mindspeakers, granted, but the dreams seem to be much more than mere speech projection. They both interact, they share their feelings, and they even make love in their dreams. What's more, I cannot think of similar situations in any of the other books, so I thought I'd just ask what the rest of you think. Peace, Ele (sigless cause she's in a bandwidth saving mood) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 22:22:03 -0400 (EDT) From: TaliaRolan-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: if you're interested... Message-ID: <970528222031_1956205130-+AT+-emout19.mail.aol.com> Heyla listsibs, First of all, i'm sorry about 2 posts in one day. Anyway, i'd just like to say that is there's anyone on AOL that would be interested in joining the "Dragon's Flame" dragon-lovers club, please e-mail me privately. TaliaRolan-+AT+-aol.com Assistant Pig-Keeper Guardian of Zebra Finches Dragon's Flame Guild Member ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 May 97 21:46:43 PDT From: Skybolt To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Howdy from Misty virgin! (wait... that didn't come out right!) Message-ID: Merry meet, all! I'm Skybolt of Buffalo, new both to the list and Mercedes Lackey's World = of Wonders! I just wanted to say a big HOWDY with wings and beer for ever= yone, and that I'm looking forward to getting to know you all. Had a lousy day at work and with a new landlord who can't quite grasp the= fact that we are not fully unpacked after three weeks... can someone ope= n a Gate and shove me a case of Guinness? Blessings, Skybolt ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 23:26:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Silvrhwk1-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Adepts, et al + Kero and Eldan (not the lifebond thread) Message-ID: <970528232614_711166033-+AT+-emout08.mail.aol.com> I must admit, when I first read BTS I thought that they were lifebonded and I still hold firm to my belief, though it's been a while since I last read it. I'm going to read it again soon and see if I might change my mind, but I'm pretty sure that they're lifebonded. Please no one yell at me for saying that. -Silverhawk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 20:37:22 PDT From: "Nightdancer P." To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Long Braid Message-ID: <199705290337.UAA09071-+AT+-f39.hotmail.com> Hey everyone, I'm back. Sorry to all my apprentices about the long stay away, but was in the hospital again. If anyone want to know, e-mail me privatly. Now on to the message. Who started the Gay thing and why. I get on and over half the messages was about what gay's look like or act like. As for me, I don't care, as long as they don't do overly sexual things in public. That goes for heteralsexual as well. What would a Herald do if she/he was chosen to be MO but already had a companion. Would the bond fade or what. Has anyone else noticed that Talia is not the first MO that had Empathy. Shavri did, at least I think she did,as she was a Healer. And Jisa did as a fact, because Vanyel said"She will be a Mind Healer; she is an active Empath..."pg 48 MPromise. She was also a main part in keeping magic in the royal bloodline. Vanyel said that she carried the potential in a double dose, and her children would deventaly have it. Does anyone know how Vanyel can feel every Herald in MPromise. After the heartstone is in place in MPrice, all Heralds can so that, through the Companions. To find where it says he does, look on pg 29 MPromise"Vanyel could follow the line of anyone who had 'shared magic' just by virtue of being a Herald." In the second book of the Mage Storms seris, it says that Soloris's sleeves where big enough to hid a donkey,tent and a week's supplys in them, but on the cover, her sleeves are skin tight. And instead of two Companions, there should have been one Companion and one Firecat. And Vanyel's hair is wrong on the last 2 books. It was suppose to some white in the second on and all white in the last one. Does anyone know when the list of Gods and Goddesses is to come out. Here are the birds and their mindmates Mindmate Bird Type Name Sex Mistweaver Coopierhawk Lina F Stallion Coopierhawk Saa M Nightdancer Crow Zamy F Sera Crow Shea M Annette Firebird Flirt M Liseth Firebird Reca F Aili Goshawk Zika M Christy Goshawk Safa F Aistes Gryfalcon Kesta F Lrd Trebor Gryfalcon Ra M Lady Sable Kinn Merlin Sina M Sunny Merlin Pela F Lady Windsong Perigrine Falcon Lyrra F Northcat Perigrine Falcon Galis F Ravenwing/Shaina Perigrine Falcon Mica M Aistes Raven Wiky M Khysa Songweaver Raven Kree F Nightdancer Red-wing Hawk Sulena F Rogue Phoenix Red-wing Hawk Jasmi M Tygriss Red-wing Hawk Nala M Shrike Shrike Fria F Staci Shrike Missy M Marcail Sparrowhawk Smea F Tarma Night Hawk Sparrowhawk Seane M Morning Star Tawny Eagle Ryia F Shadow Wolf Tawny Eagle Wesak M Liz White Owl Ryni F Lrd Trebor White Owl Nesse F Mistweaver White Owl Reka M Skyfire Aar F Bard Joey Black Hawk Stalla F Paradox Black Hawk Krala M Bard Joey Creasted Hawk-Eagle Hesta M Birds that are mating can mindspeak to each other privatly or on list AS LONG AS IT IS WITH AN OBMISTY!!!!!!!!! The females have the right to choose any male they please, in or out of their own breed. All lines are pure, but can become mixed, if the pair like each other. Please tell me who pairs with who. Eggs will come later and I will ask then about them. --------------------------------------------------------- Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 16:07:14 +0800 From: "Angeline Sim" To: Subject: Re: Kero and Eldan/timeline/Van as MO/Rolan+Roald/Tannim Message-ID: <199705290808.QAA29224-+AT+-larkspur.singnet.com.sg> ---------- > Date: Thursday, May 29, 1997 12:00 PM > > I must admit, when I first read BTS I thought that they were lifebonded and I > still hold firm to my belief, though it's been a while since I last read it. > I'm going to read it again soon and see if I might change my mind, but I'm > pretty sure that they're lifebonded. Please no one yell at me for saying > that. > > > -Silverhawk I always thought that it WAS a lifebond.... Sorry about the one-liner... ------------------------ I prefer to read my books chronologically, so here's the timeline: THE MAGE WARS The Black Gryphon The White Gryphon The Silver Gryphon THE LAST HERALD-MAGE Magic's Pawn Magic's Promise Magic's Price VOWS & HONOUR DUOLOGY The Oathbound Oathbreakers 1st and 2nd part of By The Sword THE HERALDS OF VALDEMAR Arrows of the Queen Arrow's Flight Arrow's Flight 3rd part of By The Sword THE MAGE WINDS Winds of Fate Winds of Change Winds of Fury THE MAGE STORMS Storm Warning Storm Rising Storm Breaking (I haven't really read this book yet...I'm waiting for the paperback) ---------------------------------------------- Nightdancer, I really do NOT know what is with the bondbird thing...can you pleeeeeeassssseee tell me???!! You said: > Does anyone know how Vanyel can feel every Herald in MPromise. After the heartstone is in place in MPrice, all Heralds can so that, through the Companions. To find where it says he does, look on pg 29 MPromise"Vanyel could follow the line of anyone who had 'shared magic' just by virtue of being a Herald." Could it because Van's channels did not open naturally? He only had POTENTIAL and not the gifts (said by Savil and Lendel somewhere in MPawn) when he went to Haven. His channels were BLASTED open by Gate energy, so since he was doubly sensitive to Gate energy, he was also very sensitive to the other Heralds. It would only follow that this sensitivity led to his links. I think... ------------------------------------------------- TaliaRolan said: > Well on the same line, I'm reading Oathbreakers for the first time, and I think that Herald Roald will be re-incarnated as Rolan. How about you all? Do you think it's likely? But Rolan was Grove-born right? So wouldn't his soul be "not human before" or entirely new? ------------------------------------------------------ Kara said: > Incidentally, I don't think his illness was magically induced. Remember, Taver, the previous King's Own's Companion, picked Shavri, not Vanyel, to be King's Own. Had the illness been magical in nature, Van would have been the more logical choice. Instead, Taver Chose a Healer, one with both physical Healing Gifts and some degree of Empathy. Well, but Van was already Chosen before Randi became King. It can't be possible that a Herald can have TWO Companions...can it? And what would happen to Yfandes? -------------------------------------------------------- Is it possible for Tannim to have been Alan (from Jinx High)? I mean, he was Deke's friend and Deke had few friends. Tannim had said that he had his name changed by his mentor. Plus, Alan had witnessed Di T and Fay have it out. Wasn't Di a witch/sorceress and Fay a sorceress? Tannim said that he had once seen a witch and sorceress fighting an arcane duel, which was the first time he saw magic being worked or something( sorry abt bein vague, I lent my friend the book) Alan had not "registered much above normal", but he could have had a power Di didn't recognise. Which could explain Chinthliss(sp?). And Where is the FAQ about sheep(chocolate or otherwise)? I can't seem to find it... Till next time.. Wind To Thy Wings TG "Do or do not...There is no try" - Yoda May The Force Be With You ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 18:26:14 -0700 From: Mark & Tracy To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Kero and Eldan/timeline/Van as MO/Rolan+Roald/Tannim Message-ID: <3383A0B6.3746-+AT+-worldnet.att.net> Angeline Sim wrote: > > Well, but Van was already Chosen before Randi became King. It can't be > possible that a Herald can have TWO Companions...can it? And what would > happen to Yfandes? That is one of the unexplained. In AoQ when Selenay is first describing Monarch's Own to Talia she says that if the Herald dies the Companion usually Chooses someone who is a Herald or almost a Herald (ie a Trainee). In fact Keren mentions that she was afraid Rolan would Choose HER! Misty never explains what would happen to the already bonded Companion..... -------------------------------------------------------- > Is it possible for Tannim to have been Alan (from Jinx High)? I mean, he > was Deke's friend and Deke had few friends. Tannim had said that he had > his name changed by his mentor. ... Tannim said that > he had once seen a witch and sorceress fighting an arcane duel, which was > the first time he saw magic being worked or something( sorry abt bein > vague, I lent my friend the book). Actually Tannin WAS there! He was the student who danced with Di. She even mentions sensing something from him, but then gets busy with the fight. I think he's even mentioned by name by Deke. (Something about Tannin who's always messing with cars). ------------------------------------------------------------ > And Where is the FAQ about sheep(chocolate or otherwise)? I can't seem to > find it... You need the Newbie Fest. Cheers Tracy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 07:06:07 -0400 (EDT) From: AERDEN-+AT+-delphi.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Akiko Message-ID: <01IJFLS8AZ5A91W5DM-+AT+-delphi.com> Taeyana--Thanks for posting the message from Akiko! I was glad to hear how she is doing. :) Alex--I enjoyed the gay/lesbian discussion. ObMisty...Uh...Been reading instead of Misty stuff. Can't think of anything right now. Chantal `[1;36;40mRainbow V 1.20.2 for Delphi - Test Drive ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 13:38:12 -0400 (EDT) From: FireWurm-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Kero+Eldan/New Book???/MO Hearalds Message-ID: <970529133812_813223699-+AT+-emout05.mail.aol.com> _____Kero + Eldan non lifebond_____ Ele asked > What has me puzzled is those dream encounters Kero and Eldan have, and > which Eldan admits at the end of BTS, that were somehow his doing. > However, > I cannot see what gift could actually account for those dreams. They are > both mindspeakers, granted, but the dreams seem to be much more than > mere > speech projection. They both interact, they share their feelings, and they > even make love in their dreams. For the answere to that one i think we have to look outside of the books. In my exsperience there are people called Dream Walkers (or what ever you feal like calling them) and they do just what the name implyes walk through dreams. And in doing so they can dream about other peopel and in turn be dremt about. This causes something like you discribe above to happen and in some cases it is more realy than reality. If Hearlds have all thies gifts would it not stand to reason that they could maybe alsohave this one if there was a need for it? Cuz if you think about it if Kero had never met/fallen in love w/Eldan she probly would not of bothered with Valdamar at all. She probly would of never ended up at that battle or Met Sayvil and Valdamar would of been in a pickle with trying to defend themselves against Ancar. So maybe he is a Dream Walker or maybe his Compain helped him. We are still no sure of all they can do really. _____New Book???_____ jsjahath-+AT+-future.judson.edu (JAIME HATHAWAY) droped this tantalizing piece of info in our colective lap: > **Somewhere in here (at least I think it falls in this time), we need > to insert the upcoming book on Lavan Firestorm, _Brightly Burning_ There is really going to be a new book!!!!! and on Lavan??????? Really Really really????? Can some one confirm or deny this befor i go isain??? ::chomping on the bit:: _____MO Heralds_____ > What would a Herald do if she/he was chosen to be MO but already had a > companion. Would the bond fade or what. I would think that the Hearld Compain on bond would be desolved (though I am prity sure that they would remain friends) and the MOC's bond would take its place. Any way if any Hearald was chosen to be a potential MO the bond would be week to begin with. This i think was mentioned in Magic's Promise or Price. /{\ -+AT+-§§§<{-+AT+-}§§§}:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::> \{/ Stallion Mind Mate to Saa\ Look amoung the Shadows Elven Knight of Fairgrove\ A stray eye can see Protector of Children\ The dancing lights of small ones Cultivator of Fast Cars\ From the lands of Farie /{\ -+AT+-§§§{-+AT+-}§§§}::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::> \{/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 14:52:34 -0400 (EDT) From: "Tanager" To: Subject: Re: braid: re-incarnation/MO Heralds/next book etc. Message-ID: Geez ... It amazes me at how friggin' BAD some people are at reading between the lines. Okay, folks and folkettes, here's the deal: all Grove-born Companions are powerful Guardian Spirits sent by whatever Powers King Valdemar invoked. Other "ordinary" Companions are indeed re-incarnated Heralds. Also, apparently, some Heralds are re-incarnated Companions, who were in turn re-incarnated Heralds, and so on all the way back to the Founding. Similarly, Firecats are re-incarnated Sons of the Sun. Because there have been so few Sons of the Sun compared to the number of Heralds, there is usually only one (or two) Firecats at any one given time. ************************** It has been written that the future MO will form a sort of non-permanent bond with a Companion until such time as he or she is Chosen by the MO's Companion. Regarding the Empathy question, I figure that every MO has Empathy to some degree -- as someone mentioned, both Shavri and Jisa had it -- but only Talia possessed Empathy alone with no other Gift, and in such strength. If the MO had Mindspeach and Empathy, the Empathy would probably have been considered part of his other thought-sensing abilities. ************************** Speaking of the next book -- I have heard both of _Owlflight_ (is that right?), presumedly a Tayledras story; and _Brightly_Burning_ about Lavan Firestorm. I, too, would appreciate it if someone in the know could clear up the confusion. I bet the novel about Lavan will be a lot of fun -- even though we already know the ending, eh? It would seem to take place during Vanyel's time. ************************** As for Kero & Eldan, as has been repeatedly pointed out, NO, THEY ARE NOT LIFE-BONDED. I'm sorry to even waste the space. I do like the idea, though, that maybe Eldan has some additional Wild Talent (i.e. Dream-Walking) that we don't really know much about. After all, we already know that he one uncommon Gift. Then again, maybe the fact that they both have Mindspeech is enough. I'd guess that your barriers are a little weaker when you're asleep, for one thing. Also, I just reread _AotQ_ and noticed a line where it said that Keren always contacted Ylsa every night when she (Ylsa) was out on special messenger duty. Of course, *THEY* were life-bonded, so maybe that doesn't help at all anyway ... 8-{ ************************** On the subject of cover paintings, I've often found that they rarely agree with my own conception of how a particular character looks, and a lot of the time they don't even agree with the authors descriptions. Look at the "Pern" novels -- every artist draws Anne McCaffrey's dragons differently. All of Misty's books have pretty nice covers, and if they don't agree 100% with the descriptions in the book, so what? The artists can be forgiven a little liscense and anyway, it's fiction, not a historical treatise. Does it really matter so much? Tanager ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 15:38:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Ken Hyde To: Misty Lackey List Subject: Textevd, please!/Companions/Firecats/Brightly Burning Message-ID: On Thu, 29 May 1997, Tanager wrote: > Geez ... It amazes me at how friggin' BAD some people are at reading > between the lines. This is not the best way to start off a post. Sort gets the whole discussion off to a rocky beginning. > Okay, folks and folkettes, here's the deal: all Grove-born Companions > are powerful Guardian Spirits sent by whatever Powers King Valdemar > invoked. Other "ordinary" Companions are indeed re-incarnated Heralds. > Also, apparently, some Heralds are re-incarnated Companions, who were in > turn re-incarnated Heralds, and so on all the way back to the Founding. This is all just speculation. Do you have *any* evidence from any of Misty's texts that supports these claims (other than the one about Companions being reincarnated Heralds, which has already been fully discussed and is a very well-supported claim. However, the claims about GB Companions, and Heralds reincarnating as Companions are, to the best of my knowledge, completed unsupported by any textevd. AFAIK, they were merely speculations that various people have offered on the subject of reincarnation, with no conclusive supporting evidence. If you have found some new evidence that everyone else has missed, do please bring it out and share it with us. > Similarly, Firecats are re-incarnated Sons of the Sun. Because there > have been so few Sons of the Sun compared to the number of Heralds, > there is usually only one (or two) Firecats at any one given time. This is not true. The textevd that I think you are referring to is a conversation between Karal and the Herald-Escort in Storm Warning. All that the text says is that there are "fewer" Firecats, because there have been fewer Sons of the Sun. In fact, IIRC, there is another passage that mentions that the SotS usually had "several" Firecats in attendance (in the days before Karse's fall from Vkandis grace). I'll look it up in my books this evening and send the actually textevd then. > Speaking of the next book -- I have heard both of _Owlflight_ (is that > right?), presumedly a Tayledras story; and _Brightly_Burning_ about > Lavan Firestorm. As far as I have heard, Owlflight is the only book due to come out. There will be two more to follow in that trilogy (the titles have been announced, but the names escape me at the moment). I haven't heard any word at all about Burning Brightly. Jacquelle, are you pulling an "Oathblinded" on us, or are you privy to some secret info (inquiring minds want to know!). =) May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd, Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me //www.udel.edu/kenny/prof/ken.html or .../kenny/pers/green.silences.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 16:39:48 -0400 From: "John and Kara Pekar" To: "MISTY" Subject: forthcoming books/Roald/Grove-born/ Message-ID: <199705292053.QAA31028-+AT+-sasquatch.crosslink.net> On May 28, Jaime Hathaway wrote: >Somewhere in here (at least I think it falls in this time), we need >to insert the upcoming book on Lavan Firestorm, _Brightly Burning_ Whoa -- how did I miss hearing about this one? Anybody have information/confirmation on it? I know _Owlflight_ is forthcoming, because it is listed in the front of the last few Storm books, but this one is new to me. (Sounds interesting, too!) ********************************* On May 28, TaliaRolan wrote: >Well on the same line, I'm reading Oathbreakers for the first time, and I >think that Herald Roald will be re-incarnated as Rolan. How about you all? Do >you think it's likely? With respect, no. Textevd leads us to the conclusion that Grove-born are not reincarnated Heralds, but incarnations of some other spirit-form. Vanyel tells Elspeth,"...as Companions go -- when compared to, say, Sayvil -- [Gwena] is very, very young...She makes all the kinds of mistakes any young thing makes, but because she is Grove-born, she thinks she will always make the right decision...She forgets that she has *no* real, human experience to base her decisions on. It is like dictating music when you yourself have never learned to play an instrument." [WoFury, US hardcover ed., ch. 5, p. 92-93.] Clearly, the implication is that Grove-born aren't reincarnated human beings. Grove-born also differ from "normal" reincarnated Companions in that they, or at least the Monarch's Own's Companion, doesn't age or die normally -- though he can be killed. [AotQ, ch. 5, p. 82 in SFBC omnibus ed. of Queen's Own] This semi-immortality also suggests that Grove-born (or at least the Monarch's Own's Companion) are different than "normal" human Herald souls. ************************************** [Aside -- I did see the discussion on whether Grove-born Companions could be reincarnated "deities" from the Empire. I liked it; it was ingenious -- but I don't happen to agree with it. For one thing, I got the strong impression that the "Thousand Little Gods" Tremane refers to are former Emperors, not just any ancestor. (There is some discussion of the religious beliefs of the Empire in one of the Storm books, but I haven't been able to relocate it. Anyone who finds it, please drop me a line directing me to the book and the chapter, if not the page -- before I conclude that I'm suffering from delusions!) If the gods of the Empire were once human beings, as Cennydd postulated, *and* if they are former Emperors, then Gwena couldn't be a reincarnation of one of them, because she would have human experience and a certain amount of "canniness" to draw on. Judging by the glimpse of the Imperial Court we get from the Storms books, no one makes it to the Iron Throne without being extremely shrewd, fairly ruthless, and possessing a keen understanding of human nature (the better to manipulate you with, my dear...) We don't need Vanyel's word that Gwena doesn't fit this model; her character throughout is completely inconsistent with that of an Emperor, however long ago his reign.] ********************************** Ele wrote: >In their arcane duel in OBreakers, both Keth and the adept she >fights have adept manifestations (yes, IIRC hers was a hawk and his was a >winged serpent), but then I don't remember any other of the adepts we learn >about throughout the series as having that kind of manifestations. How about Firestorm? He takes on the aspect of a firebird when he seizes upon Falconsbane's soul and shreds it into little pieces (cleansing the bits in the process, IIRC.) See the end of WoFury for the full description. *********************************** TG wrote: >Well, but Van was already Chosen before Randi became King. It can't be >possible that a Herald can have TWO Companions...can it? And what would >happen to Yfandes? Other people brought up similar questions. So... Last time this question came up, we more-or-less came to the conclusion that it's possible for a Choosing to be unbonded. [Textevd -- some comments made by Van about Jisa and Taver.] Therefore, if the MO Companion Chooses "someone already a Hearald or about to receive Whites" [Teren, AotQ, ch. 5 ibid], the previous Companion is not bonded to the Herald or trainee. Presumably, the previous Companion would be free to Choose and bond with another human at that point. (If you want to go into it further, I think I still have copies of some of the posts -- email me privately at jkpekar-+AT+-crosslink.net -- or you can check the archives for March 14, 15, etc. of this year. Wind to thy wings, listsibs all, Kara Hopeful Disciple of Textevd "So many books, so little time" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 16:55:43 -0400 (EDT) From: RTeclectic-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re:Adept manifestations tannim and rolan Message-ID: <970529165458_-262979871-+AT+-emout18.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-05-29 08:15:58 EDT, you write: << In their arcane duel in OBreakers, both Keth and the adept she fights have adept manifestations (yes, IIRC hers was a hawk and his was a winged serpent), but then I don't remember any other of the adepts we learn about throughout the series as having that kind of manifestations. Can it be one of those things Misty puts in and then seems to forget about? Or does it appear somewhere else and my sieve-like memory cannot come up with other instances? >> Well first she has to have another Adept Challenge( the type of fight they had) then she could show AM's but she hasn't so we only saw the two in the one challenge she wrote of. Did that make sense, or are finals getting to me more than I thought? <> He isn't Tannim is mentioned as a separte person within the same book. And Chinthliss was the teacher who changed his name, go read the book again carefully paying special atention to the dance part. sorry that the above is longer but i snipped as much as I felt I could. oh and Rolan couldn't have been Roald. Rolan is a grove companion, they are a higher order of gaurdian spirit, they are newborn souls or theres always the possibility that the MOC just goes and gets a new body when the old one dies and that that particuler spirit is always the same, saves on growing up time that way. We all ( i think) Read about gwenas mistakes, could be kind of hard to advise the MO if your actually younger(spirit wise and body wise, though most companions are younger body wise) than the MO! AFN, Seeya, -Regan Repairs Chief, U.S.S.Conquistidor( untill transfer to Ten-forward, which will be finalized soon, I hope, as the Ten-forward is currently getting set up) Oponant of a Wrriten Languge Disability Fellow Crevic Dweller Knight errant of the Kingdom of Mercersyard Blessed Destroyer of weeds Seeker Kyr Nolae, bondmate of Qwue'la "If you don't know it, look it up!" -Anonymus ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 16:04:55 -0400 From: Cristilyn Lawton To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Textevd, please!/Companions/Firecats/Brightly Burning Message-ID: <338DE167.19F5-+AT+-mindspring.com> Ken Hyde wrote: > > On Thu, 29 May 1997, Tanager wrote: > > Speaking of the next book -- I have heard both of _Owlflight_ (is that > > right?), presumedly a Tayledras story; and _Brightly_Burning_ about > > Lavan Firestorm. > > As far as I have heard, Owlflight is the only book due to come out. There > will be two more to follow in that trilogy (the titles have been > announced, but the names escape me at the moment). I haven't heard any > word at all about Burning Brightly. Jacquelle, are you pulling an > "Oathblinded" on us, or are you privy to some secret info (inquiring minds > want to know!). =) According to the current QO, "And the next Valdemar book will be----Brightly Burning, the story of Herald Lavan Firestorm. Sorry folks, you'll have to wait at least a year for this one. Coming this fall from Baen is Four and Twenty Blackbirds, a Bardic Voices book." I don't know anything about Owlflight, but Brightly Burning is definitly substantiated! Herald Darla ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 18:01:22 CST From: "JAIME HATHAWAY" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: braid: re-incarnation/MO Heralds/next book etc. Message-ID: <63D930DA9-+AT+-future.judson.edu> - but only Talia possessed Empathy alone with no other Gift, and in > such strength. Sorry, but that's not true. If you read AotQ, you will find that Talia had Empathy, MindHealing, a bit of a Wild Talent along the lines of Bardic, Mindspeech (if she was in trance and/or if the emotions surrounding it were strong enough), and Ylsa also tells her that she has a touch of Sight. This is when she is in her Gift classes, and observing other Gift classes. If I remember correctly, it is FarSight, not ForeSight. If anyone wants the textevd, let me know privately, and I'll bring my book here next time I come and write you back. Also, and this is insignificant, do you think Talia ever went home to get her books she had hidden in her secret hiding place? I know she went home once, but it never really says what for, did it? Jacquelle It is a far, far better thing that I do than I have ever done. It is a far, far better rest that I go to than I have ever known. _A Tale of Two Cities_ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 19:02:26 +0000 (GMT) From: Hamlet To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: the gay thing Message-ID: > > I believe the reason there are so many gays/lesbians that love to read > Misty's work is she doesn't make us out to be freaks or circus show > events....we are just human....like all of ya! :) That's her magic as far > as I'm concerned...:) > Ah... there it is, exactly. I'm not strictly anything in terms of sexuality, but that was what I loved about LHM more than anything else... While Van's being shaych was a problem for some, it really had nothing to do with his personality... or any of Misty's other characters, for that matter. I fondly remember one scene in M'sP where Van is doing his best to make Leren leave him alone and sets about to imitate the most effeminate fop at court. According to the book, the man in question *wasn't* inclined to be shay'a'chern, but played the part to irritate--not Vanyel, but others... (and wow, can I quote word for word or what?) Misty is fair to *all* her characters--even annoying fatheads like Lores. And *that* is what makes her writing so great.... IMHO ...Hamlet "Hello," said Arthur. "Something seems to be happening..." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 19:08:12 +0000 (GMT) From: Hamlet To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Randale's illness Message-ID: > >Just for the record, sterility and impotence are not the same thing. > > Well, I *did* know that. > > Still, not being able to, er... well, might be why he couldn't have > children. But even if not, I don't know of a poison that would render > someone sterile. Anyone? > I always thought that his impotency was something of Randale's, and not connected to his illness... and I seriously doubt that Leareth had anything to do with it. On candlemarks: in the beginning of A'sF, Elcarth (i think) is teaching Talia the arrow fletchings for "hours"... so, I assumed a candlemark was different from an hour. Course, that simply could have been a slipup on Misty's part, for which she is thricefold forgiven. BTW, did it bother anybody else besides me when she first reveals that Falconsbane was Leareth? I nearly went out of my mind, thinking how Van had died for nothing... ...Hamlet "Hello," said Arthur. "Something seems to be happening..." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 19:11:09 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel O'Neal" To: Subject: Re: Textevd, please!/Companions/Firecats/Brightly Burning Message-ID: On 05/29/97 at 20:48:59 Ken Hyde said: >On Thu, 29 May 1997, Tanager wrote: >> Geez ... It amazes me at how friggin' BAD some people are at reading >> between the lines. >This is not the best way to start off a post. Sort gets the whole >discussion off to a rocky beginning. Okay, okay! I admit this was a little belligerent, and I apologize if I trod on anyone's feet, but I still think it must be a hard way to go through life if you have to have everything written out in so many words. >> all Grove-born Companions are powerful Guardian Spirits sent by >> whatever Powers King Valdemar invoked. >This is all just speculation. Do you have *any* evidence from any of Well, in _WoFate_, Quentin perceives Gwena as a powerful Guardian Spirit, and he Sees Cymry as a spirit of a similar type but of lesser power. One assumes that the original GB Companions were sent by the Powers to whom Valdemar prayed, right? We also know that Gwena, unlike Sayvil, was described as being "young for a Companion." Therefore, it is logical to assume that GB Companions in general are not reincarnated Heralds, but are rather Spirits sent by the applicable Power or Powers. >(other than the one about Companions being reincarnated Heralds, which >has already been fully discussed >However, ... and Heralds reincarnating as Companions These two mean the same thing, but if you mean about Companions being reborn again *AS* Heralds, well, no spoilers here, but have you read the end of _Storm_Breaking_ yet? What's two plus two? >> Similarly, Firecats are re-incarnated Sons of the Sun. Because there >> have been so few Sons of the Sun compared to the number of Heralds, >> there is usually only one (or two) Firecats at any one given time. >This is not true. The textevd that I think you are referring to is a >conversation between Karal and the Herald-Escort in Storm Warning. All >that the text says is that there are "fewer" Firecats, because there have >been fewer Sons of the Sun. That's what I said, isn't it? This is another case of reading between the lines. There's the fact that both Firecats we've met share names with former Sons of the Sun for one thing. More than coincidence, I'd have to say. Misty practically waves it in our faces, but she doesn't want to be too ridiculously obviously. If she eliminated all of the mystery, it'd get boring real quick. Unfortunately, if we contiune down this road, though, we would be getting into the "How many deities are there" thread, because I'd have to start arguing that Heralds, Sons of the Sun, and Kal-enedral are all essentially the same. >In fact, IIRC, there is another passage that >mentions that the SotS usually had "several" Firecats in attendance (in >the days before Karse's fall from Vkandis grace). I'll look it up in my >books this evening and send the actually textevd then. Well, I don't recall that passage, but I'll take your word for it. It still doesn't negate the fact that what I wrote is pretty well supported by the _Storm_ books. Firecats are Sons of the Sun reborn so that they can continue to serve their people, just like Companions. Perhaps some Firecats were a higher order of Spirit, like the Grove Born Companions, but the connection between non-GB Companions, Firecats, and even leshya'e Kal'enedral is quite clear. Tanager >Cennydd, >Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1219 **********************************