MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1232 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Gods & Goddesses by "Tanager" 2) RE: Iron throne/SPOILER Storm breaking by "Marcail Gauen" 3) Re: yet another reincarnation thing by Scott Dunn 4) Re: Technical question by Gypsy 5) Sun and Shadows(God and Goddess) by Steve Mattila 6) Re: Technical question by Vanyel401-+AT+-aol.com 7) Diana Tregarde/Gryphon series by Tracy_L_Danberry-+AT+-rohmhaas.com (Tracy L Danberry) 8) Re: Technical question by Gypsy 9) RE: Iron throne/SPOILER Storm breaking/Herald shielding/OOPS by Brian Bennett 10) Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 1231 by mlbermudez-+AT+-CSUPomona.edu 11) Re: Technical question by Elisiande-+AT+-aol.com 12) Re: Technical question by SEANSQ-+AT+-aol.com 13) mega braid by "John and Kara Pekar" 14) Re: Technical question by Tensen 15) RE: Technical question by "Stacey Clements (Volt Comp)" 16) Re: yet another reincarnation thing by "Ana Cotton" 17) Re: hi by "Ana Cotton" 18) Re: Diana Tregarde/Gryphon series by "Ana Cotton" 19) Lying by mindspeech???? by Lydia Hales 20) Re: Diana Tregarde/Gryphon series by Jill 21) Re: yet another reincarnation thing by Jill 22) Re: Lying by mindspeech???? by "LWhitman" 23) Re: Lying by mindspeech???? by Gypsy ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 18:09:40 -0400 (EDT) From: "Tanager" To: Subject: Re: Gods & Goddesses Message-ID: Well, looking through the archives, I've seen that there was a discussion a while back about exactly how many gods there are in Velgarth, so I beg everyone's forgiveness if I'm being overly redundant, but I hope some of my fellow newbies might benefit from what I've got to say. Here's the core of the whole debate: Is every god or goddess we hear of a different entity, or is there only one God and one Goddess who go by different Names? I've got my opinion, but I've no wish to resurrect that particuar firestorm. Anyway, Vkandis' consort may resemble the Warrior, but I doubt She was ever seen in quite the same way that the Shin'a'in see Kal'enel. Don't forget though, that the Shin'a'in worship a four-aspected goddess (Maiden, Warrior, Mother, and Crone) and a four-aspected god along with her. Besides, I doubt the Warrior is anyone's consort -- I always thought She was just as sexless as Her Kal'enedral. In addition, we have heard tell of many other gods and goddesses. In Valdemar, Kernos and Astera, who seem to be a pair, apparently are quite popular.Then there's Agnetha and Agnira (among others) who were worshipped by Kero's family. The little Mage-Priest who helped bag Thalhkarsh was a devotee of Anathei of the Purifying Flame (sounds similar to Vkandis, maybe?) and the Healer Tresti of the Sunhawks was a priestess of Shayana. Those are just the ones I remember off the top of my head. I know others have been mentioned in passing as well. So, I figure that whether or not Vkandis' consort is an aspect of the same Entity the Shin'a'in know as the Star-Eyed is actually irrelevant. What matters is how Her followers perceive Her. Even if She was portrayed as having celestial aspects, I doubt She was thought of as a sexless warrior. IMHO, She's probably more of a Mother Goddess. BTW, did the you-know-what from you-know-where (no spoilers here) ever mention a Goddess in _Storm_Breaking_? I can't recall and the book is not currently in my possession. Tanager ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 15:49:52 PDT From: "Marcail Gauen" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Iron throne/SPOILER Storm breaking Message-ID: <199706102249.PAA16286-+AT+-f2.hotmail.com> Hi everyone! S (Storm Breaking) P O I L E R S P A C E I was also wondering about the same thing, and I came up with a theory. Maybe the crown grinned at Melles because it wasn't just a crown anymore. Maybe Charliss panicked just before he died, or maybe all the lose magic cause it, but could Charliss have moved his spirit into the crown? It has happened before, as in Need's case, so is there any reason that couldn't have happened? To support my case, just before Charliss died he was feeling very malicious("I will destroy it all", pg 366, and his spirit wouldn't have liked having his will denied, so he stayed around to wait for a better chance for revenge. He was a very strong mage (so the power to do that sort of spell was availible) and on pg 375 Melles thinks about how Charliss had taken to casting all his spells wearing the crown and sitting on the throne, so a magical bond might have formed between Charliss and the crown. Any other theories? Marcail I'm really sorry if this shows up twice, but I'm not sure it was sent to the right address the first time --------------------------------------------------------- Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 16:15:54 -0700 From: Scott Dunn To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: yet another reincarnation thing Message-ID: <339DE02A.6C57-+AT+-inreach.com> Windstorm wrote: > > but the companion appears as a young woman or boy I think.. I can't remember > >the page number off hand... but I distincly remember its there :-) > > > > That's a good point. When 'Lendal was showing his Companion to Vanyel, he > saw her for a couple of instances as a young laughing girl, or something > like that. There are also a couple other cases like that, but I can't > recall them. That's the Heralds being reincarnated into Companions side, > so wouldn't it logically follow that the reverse was true? But then again, > logicality isn't always logical. Can a higher power like a Companion be > reincarnated into something below it's status? > > Windstorm > -"I stand corrected." Windstrom- The one other case you were thinking of was when Vanyel is leaving Haven to go visit his family. Again he see 'Fandes as a young lady, he belives that it is just because he is tired. Another case that could prove this point is (It may have been brought up before, but sorry, I new here) Kero's companion. her companion's name is Sayvil, but Gwenna slipped once in WC and said she was talking to Savil. Maybe it is Vanyel's Aunt returned. This is just my thoughts. Silk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 21:08:04 -0500 (CDT) From: Gypsy To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Technical question Message-ID: <01IJX6MLIO2A9I60DL-+AT+-swt.edu> Its seems, IIRC, that in Arrow's Flight, Kris mentioned something to Talia about all Heralds having been trained in grounding & centering while they were trapped in the Forest of Sorrows. Someone may want to double check on that. Pecan Praline sheep to all! Mary Bentley-Werner ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 22:33:03 -0700 From: Steve Mattila To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Sun and Shadows(God and Goddess) Message-ID: <339E388F.959-+AT+-winternet.com> >From Herald's, harpers, and Havoc, page 39(song book): "Rothas Sunsinger and Lythe Shadowdancer were a legendary pair of early Heralds, the Valdemar equivalent of Romeo and Juliet. Each of the 2 lovers were heir to a terrible famiy curse. Rothas Sunsinger would fall into a trance at dusk, while Lythe Shadowdancer could not bear the touch of the sun. They met at dusk once, and of course fell in love immediately. After much searching and heartache, they finally managed to acquire enough magical power to break both of their spells, and return to Valdemar, and became Heralds." It goes on to explain that the events in Sun and Shadows were occuring thorough the Windrider cycle. Thus, the timing for Sunsinger and Shadowdancer would be off, preventing them from being Gods. Hope this helps!(See the song from Shadowstalker for more proof.) -Rowain ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 07:33:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Vanyel401-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Technical question Message-ID: <970611073307_814542190-+AT+-emout12.mail.aol.com> OK I'm gettimg the same answer that all Heardls learn ground¢er but why would someone say with a firestarting gift need to sheild? _life is a game meant to be played not won_ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 08:09:00 -0400 From: Tracy_L_Danberry-+AT+-rohmhaas.com (Tracy L Danberry) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Diana Tregarde/Gryphon series Message-ID: <00087296.1306-+AT+-rohmhaas.com> Hi Listsibs. I was wondering some things. First of all, how do you all like the Tregarde novels? I like them a lot - they have a really neat plot line, and everything Misty writes is fun to read. Also, did Arcanum 101 or Triangle Park (listed as forthcoming in the FAQ) come out yet? If so, any opinions w/o spoilers? DON'T READ FURTHER IF YOU HAVEN'T READ THE GRYPHON BOOKS - I DON'T WANT TO SPOIL ANYTHING FOR ANYONE!!! I really liked the Black Gryphon. Skan, Gesten, Amberdrake, Urtho - they were all great characters. The creation of the gryphons was way cool - and I'd like to hear the story of the creation of the hertasi. I loved Kechara and Zhaneel. The White Gryphon was great too - the Hialeigh culture was interesting - maybe in future novels they will ally with Valdemar against the Empire. The Silver Gryphon wasn't what I expected, but I enjoyed it immensely. Those wyrsa were cool! Anyway, chocolate sheep with crisped rice to all!!! Trae ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 08:00:37 -0500 (CDT) From: Gypsy To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Technical question Message-ID: <01IJXTDCWQV69I66VP-+AT+-swt.edu> I believe sheilding protects the Heralds to some extent from others' Mind Magic. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 13:35:14 +0000 From: Brian Bennett To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Iron throne/SPOILER Storm breaking/Herald shielding/OOPS Message-ID: <19970611133512.AAA3468-+AT+-LOCALNAME> MysTree wrote: > >Heyla listsibs, >Just thought I'd throw in another topic to be discussed, I *really* get >tired of reading the same topics over & over. >S >P >O >I >L >E >R > >S >P >A >C >E > >OK guys you were warned- I don't know about y'all but I'd really like to >know how all that mage energy at the end of SB affected the Iron throne. >S0- how is all of this magical energy going to affect the Empire or at >least the Emperor? >Any thoughts? Okay, here are my thoughts, and they are just my thoughts. No textevd. I think that Charliss cast a spell so that whoever sits on the throne will be controlled by his spirit. Charliss absolutely did not want to give up all of that power. That's why the throne grinned wolfishly at Melles. That's JMHO of course. ***************************************************************************** Vanyel401 Wrote: >OK > I'm gettimg the same answer that all Heardls learn ground¢er but why >would someone say with a firestarting gift need to sheild? > One reason could be for protection from blood mages. ****************************************************************************** Angeline Sim has applied for membership in the Order of Putzer Servants. Her petition has been granted and she is hereby charged as a lady of OOPS to provide sympathy and support to mediocre chessplayers wherever she may find them. ShadowWolf, God of Stupid Chess Moves Founder of OOPS "Checkmate" --Deep Blue-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 07:30:54 -0700 From: mlbermudez-+AT+-CSUPomona.edu To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 1231 Message-ID: cancel lackey digest ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 10:28:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Elisiande-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Technical question Message-ID: <970611102758_-1664107705-+AT+-emout05.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-06-11 07:41:41 EDT, Van writes: << OK I'm gettimg the same answer that all Heardls learn ground¢er but why would someone say with a firestarting gift need to sheild? >> I would imagine that they would need to shield against their gift "leaking" during high-stress moments... to shield a little from unwanted telepathic infulence, maybe ... to prevent their gifts, esp Firestarting, from affecting *them* and the people neaar them whenthey are in use... for example. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 10:40:09 -0400 (EDT) From: SEANSQ-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Technical question Message-ID: <970611103833_-194600009-+AT+-emout03.mail.aol.com> On 6/11 Vanyel401-+AT+-aol.com wrote: >OK > I'm getting the same answer that all Heardls learn ground¢er but why >would someone say with a firestarting gift need to sheild? Well, let's think about it. If someone with a firestarting gift was battered by two lovers who were having a fight, or anyone else for that matter who was fighting, they might strike out without control simply because they were picking up on the ever-so-strong emotions. Anyone with a potentially lethal gift would need shielding most of all. Meg Assistant to the God of New Homes specializing in Neighborhood Welcoming Committees (in training for) Knight of Amber and Marigold ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 10:57:06 -0400 From: "John and Kara Pekar" To: "MISTY" Subject: mega braid Message-ID: <199706111512.LAA01910-+AT+-sasquatch.crosslink.net> Heyla, listsibs! I'm back after a week away...and I've finally waded through the (I kid you not) *359* messages that came in while I was gone. (This is what comes of belonging to two mailing lists, each with enthusiastic, helpful, and often erudite members...) Elisiande: congratulations on your upcoming nuptials. May the sun shine warmly on you, may gentle breezes blow around you, and may whatever god(s) you believe in bless your marriage... ******************************* On June 4, Cennydd wrote: >Quite frankly, Elspeth's"recovery" from brattiness seemed >to be too easy and complete, while at the same time being >too ephemeral and shaky. She reverts to brattiness at >frequent points throughout all of the books, except for the >HoV books, where she is almost cloyingly perfect (except >for her "temptation" by Orthallen's little catspaw). I noticed this, too. Actually, I found the conversion from the Brat to the nice girl fairly believable; on re-reading, it is clear that Talia put months and months of heavy-duty, concerted effort into teaching Elspeth self-discipline and manners. It was made clear that Hulda only had a free hand with Elspeth for a couple of years, and that underneath the Brat was still a basically nice, lonely little girl. Given some of the turn-arounds I saw in 5 1/2 years of teaching, I think Elspeth's conversion was realistic. The fact that she was vulnerable to the temptation of Orthallen's minion shows that she was a fairly normal adolescent girl -- unsure of her own value, becoming interested in the opposite sex, and inexperienced enough to fall for a pretty line of talk. What did bother me was the degree to which she reverted to "Bratty" behavior in the Winds books...although, in retrospect, it almost looks to me as though Elspeth was going through her adolescent rebellion a decade late. This would account for a lot of the "Brattiness" in those books -- *except* her arrogant, "I am someone important" air with the Tayledras. When Darkwind calls her on that, she tries to explain that that is how she is expected to act among her people...yet it was made very clear in the Arrows books that Heralds do not expect her to act that way, and that her own mother does not model this behavior, at least among Heralds. Maybe the Court does expect that sort of attitude; from the glimpses of Court we've had, I'd say a lot of the nobles probably do expect it. However, anyone as intelligent as Elspeth undoubtedly is should have learned how to put on and take off that "attitude" like a cloak, and should be a great deal better at gauging when it is needed and when it is a hindrance. ***************************************** On June 5, Nighthawk wrote: >Well, when Elspeth asked why Gwena hadn't chosen her sooner, >Gwena had replied something like 'First I was too young, then you had to >grow up.' or something like that. Don't forget, when Elspeth asks this question, she has been made to forget that Gwena is GB -- and was in fact incarnated/made manifest on the night when Elspeth was Chosen. I suspect Gwena's "explanation" was designed to keep Elspeth from thinking too hard about the topic. And BTW -- I do seem to remember reading this, but I can't remember where, so could you provide textevd? ************************************************ Thunder said: >> Was it ever mentioned anywhere what exactly caused Tarma (whose > voice was once the pride of the Shin'a'in) to lose her lovely speech? Yes. "Sword Sworn", found in the MZBradley anthology, _Sword and Sorceress III_, introduces the characters of Tarma and Kethry. The story opens with the attack on Tarma's clan, during which she is overpowered and strangled (and subsequently raped, as we later learn.) When she awakens, her throat is "almost swollen shut". [p. 216] Later in the story, the Liha'irden healer informs her that what is wrong with her voice is "something broken past mending". [p. 218] Apparently, the crushing of her larynx caused by the strangulation has ruined her voice. *********************************************** Richard -- I enjoyed the succinctness and clarity of your arguments regarding the functions of Randale's sterility. ************************************************* Cennydd already answered the question of Sunsinger and Shadowdancer, but here's the textevd: [from AFlight, ch. 2, p. 259 in SFBC omnibus ed. of QO.] " 'Sun and Shadow' told of the meeting of two of the earliest Heralds, Rothas Sunsinger and Lythe Shadowdancer; long before they were ever Chosen and while their lives still remained tangled by strange curses." ************************************************** on June 9, Cennydd wrote: >The Temples of the Sunlord in Valdemar were supposed to >have broken from the main Temple in Karse when the false >Sons of the Sun came to power and the Writ of Vkandis was >either suppressed or perverted. So, why is there no indication >that the Valdemaran temples retained the worship of the Kalenal? Good question! And here's another set of questions along similar lines: How when, and why did the Holderkin evolve? According to Talia, "Holderkin are originally from outkingdom -- Karse, if you're curious. They fled from religious persecution; their religion is based on a dominating, ruling God and a passive, submissive Godess, and the Karsites are monotheistic. That was...oh, two generations ago." [AFlight, ch. 4, p. 286 in SFBC omnibus ed. of QO] But according to Karal, the suppression of Kalenel-worship happened a lot longer than 2 generations ago. Here are the differences between Karsite and Holderkin societies, as I see it: 1. Both are male-dominated societies. However, the structure of the Holderkin society goes a *lot* farther in suppressing women's choices and options than the Karsite culture does. 2. I don't recall anything suggesting that the Karsites are polygamous; the Holderkin definitely are. (This could have been one bone of contention between the Holderkin and the Karsites.) 3. At the time the Holderkin flee to Valdemar, the Karsites are monotheistic, worshipping Vkandis Sunlord (albeit in somewhat distorted ways.) The Holderkin have a dominating God (similar to Vkandis, probably), but also a submissive Goddess. The questions that arise are: 1. Where did the Holderkin get their Goddess? Is she a holdover from the old worship of Kalenal as Vkandis' Consort? Or did they come up with their Goddess on their own? 2. If the Holderkin Goddess is Kalenel, or at least the Holderkin interpretation of Kalenel, how did they manage to retain worship of Her without being entirely wiped out, during the generations between when the false Sons of the Sun suppressed the worship of Kalenel and when the Holderkin fled to Valdemar? 3. If the Holderkin Goddess isn't a holdover from Kalenel worship, how and when did they come up with her? Are the Holderkin a cult sprung from the charisma of a single leader a few generations back? (This would explain a lot about their secrecy, their distrust of outsiders, and their absolute control over what their people do and think, especially their children. Now that I think about it, the Holderkin do share some traits exhibited by many modern cults.) Hmmm -- maybe we have another story idea here. I'm not sure it's a story I really want to read, but I *am* curious... ********************************************** On , Hamlet said: >Karal is leaving An'desha and hears bells ringing from the palace clock. >Therefore, whatever the inherent problems of candles may be, it is logical >to assume that candlemark is simply a term, and they have clocks the >same as us... Could you find the textevd, please? I went looking, but all I found was the place in SW where Karal first meets An'desha. At the end of their meeting, "Bells from the Collegium marked the hour, and the young man started as he counted them." [SW, hardcover ed., ch. 10, p. 204.] It is clear from this and other references to bells that the Palace/Collegium complex has some way of determining time, and rings bells so that those within hearing can know the time (and keep relatively synchronous schedules.) But I don't see any clear evidence that they have clocks. They may have them -- or perhaps just one huge one which regulates the bells. Or they may use some form of candles (however inconsistent) or waterclock, and ring the bells by hand. Speculation: One intriguing possibility is that the artificers have recently invented the clockwork clock. If they are well on the way to steam engines, it seems likely that pendulum- or weight-based clockwork has been around for at least a little while, assuming the pattern of development is more-or-less similar to our own. Also, I think we can assume that they have water- or windmills -- I don't see being able to support cities on the scale of Haven while still grinding flour by hand. Therefore, they are familiar with gears -- one of the necessary steps in developing clockwork. However, given the fact that clocks are never mentioned by name (that I can recall), I doubt that they are common even if they are in existence. Hence my suggestion that there is only one great large one for the whole Palace/Collegium complex -- or even the whole city. ******************************************* One minor request: please, please change the subject of your post if the "re: xxx" no longer applies to what you are talking about! There are some topics that I skip, skim, or save for later, simply because I don't have time to read everything right now. I'd hate to miss someone's brilliance on a topic, because it was labelled with "re: fluff" or something similar! Equally, it's occasionally annoying to read a post and discover that it contains absolutely nothing about the topic listed in the subject heading. Thanks. ************************************ Well, that about catches me up for the week. In case I don't get a chance to post again before Sunday, Happy Father's Day (US) to all dads or expectant dads out there, and here is a big plate of brownie sheep which you don't have to share with anyone! (Of course, you can if you want to...) Wind to thy wings, Kara Disciple of Textevd "So many books, so little time" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 12:01:17 +0000 (GMT) From: Tensen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Technical question Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Jun 1997 Vanyel401-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > OK > I'm gettimg the same answer that all Heardls learn ground¢er but why > would someone say with a firestarting gift need to sheild? Considering shielding is used to block out mental influences, you definitely want every herald to be able to shield, since they are the lawgivers for many townson ther circuit, you don't want anyone to be able to influence their judgement. Tensen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 09:17:00 -0700 From: "Stacey Clements (Volt Comp)" To: "'mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk'" Subject: RE: Technical question Message-ID: <41CD7A798584CF11B51400805FD4C60D025C34A8-+AT+-RED-100-MSG.dns.microsoft.com> I believe that ground and centering was taught to all Heralds for both protection from gifts and distraction (shielding) and because they had to be both grounded and centered to invoke First Stage Truth Spell (something all Heralds can do regardless of their gifts). > ---------- > From: Gypsy[SMTP:MB38060-+AT+-swt.edu] > Reply To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk > Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 1997 7:19 PM > To: Stacey Clements (Volt Comp) > Subject: Re: Technical question > > Its seems, IIRC, that in Arrow's Flight, Kris mentioned something to > Talia > about all Heralds having been trained in grounding & centering while > they were > trapped in the Forest of Sorrows. > > Someone may want to double check on that. > > Pecan Praline sheep to all! > Mary Bentley-Werner > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 09:49:24 PDT From: "Ana Cotton" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: yet another reincarnation thing Message-ID: <199706111649.JAA25658-+AT+-f51.hotmail.com> Silk said: >Windstrom- Another case that could prove this point is (It may have been >brought up before, but sorry, I new here) Kero's companion. her >companion's name is Sayvil, but Gwenna slipped once in WC and said >she was talking to Savil. Maybe it is Vanyel's Aunt returned. This >is just my thoughts. > Also, hasn't it been mentioned a couple different times (can't remember where..) that Van's aunt would have been a match for Kero? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Hugs, Ana, Secretary of the CIA, Communications Officer Purple Haze, Member of the PMEB, Keeper of the GASP Radio. "..I was bringing the Master as backup.It was like carrying a thermonuclear device to kill ants. Overkill has always been a specialty of mine." Anita Blake, 'The Laughing Corpse' http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/6573/index.htm --------------------------------------------------------- Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 09:56:02 PDT From: "Ana Cotton" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: hi Message-ID: <199706111656.JAA23670-+AT+-f10.hotmail.com> >From: "Jeannette Richardson" >Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 15:34:25 PDT >hi >CIA?????? > >uh gotta go, bye:) >(i was not here you did not see me, can't prove a thing!!!) > Oh, really? Hmm... We can prove anything we want,heheh.... OBMisty: Has anyone read Firebird yet? Is it good? Anyone going to Dragoncon? Ya know, in Atlanta? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Hugs, Ana, Secretary of the CIA, Communications Officer Purple Haze, Member of the PMEB, Keeper of the GASP Radio. "..I was bringing the Master as backup.It was like carrying a thermonuclear device to kill ants. Overkill has always been a specialty of mine." Anita Blake, 'The Laughing Corpse' http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/6573/index.htm --------------------------------------------------------- Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 10:00:54 PDT From: "Ana Cotton" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Diana Tregarde/Gryphon series Message-ID: <199706111700.KAA08950-+AT+-f27.hotmail.com> >Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 13:34:33 +0100 (BST) >From: Tracy_L_Danberry-+AT+-rohmhaas.com (Tracy L Danberry) >Hi Listsibs. I was wondering some things. First of all, how do you >all like the Tregarde novels? I like them a lot - they have a really >neat plot line, and everything Misty writes is fun to read. Like 'em. Fave: Children of the Night. > Also, did Arcanum 101 or Triangle Park (listed as forthcoming in the FAQ) come out yet? If so, any opinions w/o spoilers? > Errmm.. From what I've been hearing, due to low numbers or something, they are not even going to be written/published.. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Hugs, Ana, Secretary of the CIA, Communications Officer Purple Haze, Member of the PMEB, Keeper of the GASP Radio. "..I was bringing the Master as backup.It was like carrying a thermonuclear device to kill ants. Overkill has always been a specialty of mine." Anita Blake, 'The Laughing Corpse' http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/6573/index.htm --------------------------------------------------------- Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 10:16:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Lydia Hales To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Lying by mindspeech???? Message-ID: I was rereading the second book in the Winds triology, and I noticed an interesting inconsistency. It has always been said that it is not possible to lie by mindspeech. However, at one point in the book, Gwena is acting "nervous," and Elspeth decides to find out why. Upon pushing her for information, Gwena tells Elspeth she (Gwena) can feed her(Elspeth) mage energy. Elspeth asks Gwena if she is a mage, and Gwena replies brightly, "No." Later in the same book, Darkwind and Elspeth are going to the gryphons' lair to send the mage message to K'Treva. They are discussing the fact that they will only have the energies of four mages. Gwena corrects, "Five." Elspeth then gets angry at Gwena, and forces her to promise not to hold back any more information. So, is Gwena a mage, and if she is, how did she manage to lie by mindspeech? Sorry that I don't have textved or pages, but the book is at home. (I think the first incident is on page 398, or thereabouts, in the paperback version). Lady Lydia ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 14:07:58 -0400 From: Jill To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk, jilly-+AT+-dns.ida.net Subject: Re: Diana Tregarde/Gryphon series Message-ID: <199706111807.OAA13813-+AT+-greynet.net> Hello List, I am rather the new kid on the block here, but hello to everyone, Trae, I too have very much enjoyed the Diana Tregarde series, as much as I love the Valdamar books, I feel a kind of empthy with Diana. I have enjoyed reading the list comments on the various subject, now I am going to have to go back and reread many of them, some of the points that have been brought up have me dearching my memory and coming up a bit short. Be well and wind to your wings Jilly At 01:35 PM 6/11/97 +0100, Tracy L Danberry wrote: >Hi Listsibs. I was wondering some things. First of all, how do you all like >the Tregarde novels? I like them a lot - they have a really neat plot line, >and everything Misty writes is fun to read. Also, did Arcanum 101 or >Triangle Park (listed as forthcoming in the FAQ) come out yet? If so, any >opinions w/o spoilers? > >DON'T READ FURTHER IF YOU HAVEN'T READ THE GRYPHON BOOKS - I DON'T WANT TO >SPOIL ANYTHING FOR ANYONE!!! > >I really liked the Black Gryphon. Skan, Gesten, Amberdrake, Urtho - they >were all great characters. The creation of the gryphons was way cool - and >I'd like to hear the story of the creation of the hertasi. I loved Kechara >and Zhaneel. The White Gryphon was great too - the Hialeigh culture was >interesting - maybe in future novels they will ally with Valdemar against the >Empire. The Silver Gryphon wasn't what I expected, but I enjoyed it >immensely. Those wyrsa were cool! Anyway, chocolate sheep with crisped rice >to all!!! Trae > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 14:22:25 -0400 From: Jill To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk, jilly-+AT+-dns.ida.net Subject: Re: yet another reincarnation thing Message-ID: <199706111822.OAA13878-+AT+-greynet.net> Also when Elspeth gets home and the gryphons are training the "new" Mages, Sayvil makes the comment "Couldn't have done better myself" to me that sounds JUST like a comment Savil would have made But that is JMO Jilly At 06:08 PM 6/11/97 +0100, Ana Cotton wrote: >Silk said: >>Windstrom- > Another case that could prove this point is (It may have been >>brought up before, but sorry, I new here) Kero's companion. her >>companion's name is Sayvil, but Gwenna slipped once in WC and said >she >was talking to Savil. Maybe it is Vanyel's Aunt returned. This >is >just my thoughts. >> > > Also, hasn't it been mentioned a couple different times (can't remember >where..) that Van's aunt would have been a match for Kero? > > > >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >Hugs, Ana, Secretary of the CIA, Communications Officer >Purple Haze, Member of the PMEB, Keeper of the GASP Radio. >"..I was bringing the Master as backup.It was like carrying >a thermonuclear device to kill ants. Overkill has always been > a specialty of mine." Anita Blake, 'The Laughing Corpse' >http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/6573/index.htm > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------- >Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >--------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 97 14:34:54 -0800 From: "LWhitman" To: Subject: Re: Lying by mindspeech???? Message-ID: <9706118660.AA866065153-+AT+-ccmailhost.nwcomputing.com> I was rereading the second book in the Winds triology, and I noticed an interesting inconsistency. It has always been said that it is not possible to lie by mindspeech. However, at one point in the book, Gwena is acting "nervous," and Elspeth decides to find out why. Upon pushing her for information, Gwena tells Elspeth she (Gwena) can feed her(Elspeth) mage energy. Elspeth asks Gwena if she is a mage, and Gwena replies brightly, "No." Later in the same book, Darkwind and Elspeth are going to the gryphons' lair to send the mage message to K'Treva. They are discussing the fact that they will only have the energies of four mages. Gwena corrects, "Five." Elspeth then gets angry at Gwena, and forces her to promise not to hold back any more information. So, is Gwena a mage, and if she is, how did she manage to lie by mindspeech? They are discussing mage energy. I think that Gwena is closer to a mage channel, not a full mage...hence it is a technicality, not really lying. Starfire ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 17:02:50 -0500 (CDT) From: Gypsy To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Lying by mindspeech???? Message-ID: <01IJYCETMEYQ9I60HV-+AT+-swt.edu> Maybe it's because Gwena is a "guardian spirit" with a higher order of magic than humans? ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1232 **********************************