MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1233 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: yet another reincarnation thing by Scott Dunn 2) Re: Lying by mindspeech???? by Scott Dunn 3) OOPS by RTeclectic-+AT+-aol.com 4) RE: Iron throne/SPOILER Storm breaking by Roxanne Nolan 5) Velgarth by Roxanne Nolan 6) heyla all by "jenneblu" 7) Re: Lying by mindspeech???? by Roxanne Nolan 8) Really long Braid-Randale,Baron Valdemar,Gwena,Kero & Eldan,Elspeth, & Savil. by "SJB" 9) Re: Technical question -Reply by Jennifer Lucy Cornelius 10) Re: Really long Braid-Randale,Baron Valdemar,Gwena,Kero & Eldan,Elspeth, & Savil. by nme848-+AT+-hecky.acns.nwu.edu (Nina Ehgartner) 11) Re: Technical question -Reply by Jill 12) Re: Velgarth by "LWhitman" 13) Re: Really long Braid-Randale,Baron Valdemar,Gwena,Kero & Eldan, by "PAUL REVERE" 14) Re: Sun and Shadows(God and Goddess) by Hamlet 15) Re: mega braid by Hamlet 16) Re: mega braid by Gypsy ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 16:47:56 -0700 From: Scott Dunn To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: yet another reincarnation thing Message-ID: <339F392C.2448-+AT+-inreach.com> Ana Cotton wrote: > > Silk said: > >Windstrom- > Another case that could prove this point is (It may have been > >brought up before, but sorry, I new here) Kero's companion. her > >companion's name is Sayvil, but Gwenna slipped once in WC and said >she > was talking to Savil. Maybe it is Vanyel's Aunt returned. This >is > just my thoughts. > > > > Also, hasn't it been mentioned a couple different times (can't remember > where..) that Van's aunt would have been a match for Kero? > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Hugs, Ana, Secretary of the CIA, Communications Officer > Purple Haze, Member of the PMEB, Keeper of the GASP Radio. > "..I was bringing the Master as backup.It was like carrying > a thermonuclear device to kill ants. Overkill has always been > a specialty of mine." Anita Blake, 'The Laughing Corpse' > http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/6573/index.htm > > --------------------------------------------------------- > Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > --------------------------------------------------------- Ana- Yes they do mention that they would be a match for each other. Also there are several companions in the Arrow books whose names are extermly close to those of heralds in Vanyel's time. silk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 16:49:12 -0700 From: Scott Dunn To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Lying by mindspeech???? Message-ID: <339F3978.7972-+AT+-inreach.com> Lydia Hales wrote: > > I was rereading the second book in the Winds triology, and I noticed an > interesting inconsistency. It has always been said that it is not > possible to lie by mindspeech. However, at one point in the book, Gwena > is acting "nervous," and Elspeth decides to find out why. Upon pushing > her for information, Gwena tells Elspeth she (Gwena) can feed > her(Elspeth) mage energy. Elspeth asks Gwena if she is a mage, and Gwena > replies brightly, "No." Later in the same book, Darkwind and Elspeth are > going to the gryphons' lair to send the mage message to K'Treva. They > are discussing the fact that they will only have the energies of four > mages. Gwena corrects, "Five." Elspeth then gets angry at Gwena, and > forces her to promise not to hold back any more information. So, is > Gwena a mage, and if she is, how did she manage to lie by mindspeech? > Sorry that I don't have textved or pages, but the book is at home. (I > think the first incident is on page 398, or thereabouts, in the paperback > version). > > Lady Lydia Maybe Gwena was able to lie because she is Grove born? Just a thought. silk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 21:14:06 -0400 (EDT) From: RTeclectic-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: OOPS Message-ID: <970611211223_1585473503-+AT+-emout18.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-06-11 13:24:16 EDT, you write: << Angeline Sim has applied for membership in the Order of Putzer Servants. Her petition has been granted and she is hereby charged as a lady of OOPS to provide sympathy and support to mediocre chessplayers wherever she may find them. >> Mediocre chess players, what about the dismal ones? I just got beat by the kid I was babysitting, and it wasn't 'cause I let him win, he's 12 , I'm16. AFN, /{\ Seeya, -+AT+-§§§<{-+AT+-}§§§}>>><>>>><>>>><>>>><>>>><> -Regan(RT) \{/ Human Lady of Fairgrove U.S.S.Conquistidor Protector of Children &Cultivator of Fast Cars Member of the Clan Denial Fellow Crevic Dweller Knight errant of the Kingdom of Mercersyard, Blessed Destroyer of weeds Oponant of a Wrriten Languge Disability§ Seeker Kyr Nolae, bondmate of Qwue'la "If you don't know it, look it up!" -Anonymus ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 18:17:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Roxanne Nolan To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Iron throne/SPOILER Storm breaking Message-ID: <199706120117.SAA03709-+AT+-concord.televar.com> >S >P >O >I >L >E >R > >S >P >A >C >E > I don't know about y'all but I'd really like to >know how all that mage energy at the end of SB affected the Iron throne. > Page 423 hb states "Then suddenly, the vortex stilled, and a moment later, >the gathered energy invested itself in the Iron Throne, leaving it glowing >for a moment before returning-apparently-to its original state." the next >paragraph mentions that when Melles reached for the Wolf Crown "he could >have sworn that the pack-leader on the front of the crown grinned at him." >S0- how is all of this magical energy going to affect the Empire or at >least the Emperor? >Any thoughts? >Wind to thy wings, >MystTree Wow! I remember him saying about the crown grinning but I didn't remember about the throne glowing. Cool! I wonder if that energy could give the crown and throne a sentience like the rouge hearstone in WOF,WOF and WOC. There were several spots where Elspeth said she could feel the intelligence and malovence behind the Heartstone. By the way cool new topic! And because I am craving a hot fudge sundae sheep shaped ice cream with hot fudge sauce on top! Roxanne "Catch you on the flipside!" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 18:38:54 -0700 From: Roxanne Nolan To: Mercedes Lackey list Subject: Velgarth Message-ID: <339F532E.250-+AT+-televar.com> My apologies to everyone for a short post and for asking a dumb question. What is Velgarth? Ihave been reading Misty books for a while and I don't recall this series. Roxanne Nolan "Catch you on the flipside" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 21:55:21 -0500 From: "jenneblu" To: Subject: heyla all Message-ID: <199706120202.WAA62174-+AT+-mail1y-int.prodigy.net> heyla all! i'm new to the list, i've been lurking for the past week or so just to see what everyone has to say. so... i'm a huge misty fan, and i love the "magic" series best of all, with van, lendal, and stephan. i love the diana tregard books, and i think its a shame that misty feels they don't need to continue. i am also a huge fan of charles delint, and i'm a member of his mailing list tamson house. i never miss a laurell k hamilton book, and i'd love to talk to more of laurell's fans. about me in general, i'm a 23 year old, female,and a witch. i''m a recent transplant in dallas, so if anyone is in the area, i'd be glad to chat. just wanted to say hi to everyone, glad to be here jenneblu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 19:46:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Roxanne Nolan To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Lying by mindspeech???? Message-ID: <199706120246.TAA21407-+AT+-concord.televar.com> At 10:48 PM 6/11/97 +0100, you wrote: > > > >They are discussing mage energy. I think that Gwena is closer to a mage >channel, not a full mage...hence it is a technicality, not really lying. > >Starfire I have noticed that Gwenna seems to be a master of technicalities! It is a good thing that Elspeth wised up to her ploy of holding things back! Roxanne "Catch you on the flipside!" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 00:55:05 -0400 From: "SJB" To: Subject: Really long Braid-Randale,Baron Valdemar,Gwena,Kero & Eldan,Elspeth, & Savil. Message-ID: <199706120446.AAA15083-+AT+-mailhost.capecod.net> Hi everyone! I survived my vacation with only minor emotional scars (visit with the in-laws) :))) and a sunburn on my shins to show for it. It has taken me 4 days just to catch up on reading my mail never mind thinking up something intelligent to write. The plane ride was uneventful thanks to the suggestions of what books I ought to read next. I settled for 'Children of the Night' because I like stories with Vampires. I have to say I liked ML's spin on Vampires both good and bad. I also started the Bardic Voices compilation. So far so good - though I have had to put it done in order to read Storm Breaking (I was waiting for it to come out in PB but recently broke down and bought the HC). So again I find myself in two books at once...AARRGGHH :)) Anyways.......... Erased message with name of person who wrote this (my bad-sorry:) >Just wondering if anyone has any theories on what killed Randi.... I read through everyones theories and believe they are all good:) But I think that Randale's illness was something he was born with that obviously developed over time. IMO the reason why the healers and Shavri, his lifebonded and a healer herself, were unable to save him was because the disease was a part of his genetic structure (i.e. he was born with it). So far I do not recall a healer being able to alter ones genetic structure and I believe that was why Randale was unable to have children and why the disease progressed so slowly (Shavri and the healers also helped slow the progression of it down). *************************************************************************** >Roxanne Nolan wrote: > > I also got to wondering since the empire worships (I use this term > loosely) their ancestors and it is generally known that the Companions > are re-incarnated heralds could the first Companions been an answer from > the Gods Valdemar prayed to (i.e his ancestors) by them (them being some > of the ancestors) becoming the first Companions? Interesting theory but I have to disagree. I don't think that Baron Valdemar prayed to his ancestors. Nor do I think that the first Companions were the long dead ancestors. I believe that praying to the Deities of the very people he and his people ran from would contradict his apparent belief system. Since we know very little about him one can only assume and theorize. So here it goes....The Legend of Baron Valdemar, as stated in WOFate pg.13, "wrought what was half a prayer and half a spell, begging all benign powers for their aid in this desire of his" (i.e. determination of worthy successors to the throne of Valdemar). The suggestion that it was half a prayer and half a spell leads me to think that the Baron might possibly have been a Mage of some sort and was able to call on any diety or spirit that was available or interested in helping him. Also IMO the Baron was not praying to anyone or thing specifically but to any Power that would be fair and would look out for the well-being of Valdemar. **************************************************************************** Cennydd wrote: >*snip* Another solution is to assume the Gwena's original life was very >short (she may have died young) and/or that it was sufficiently different >from the realities of life in modern Valdemar that she is, for all >intents and purposes, "new". *snip* It is clear that Gwena has some >experiences to draw on, and most of her errors are as easily explained by >saying that her human experience is from a very long time ago and from a >very different sort of life. The Baron's answer to his prayer/spell came in the form of the Companions (which I believe were all Grove Born in the begining and not reincarnated ancestors or past people of any sort). IMO a Grove Born Companion is a being from the Ethereal Plane and not something of Valdemar's World at all. For example Mages from Karse were able to call on Demons that existed only on the Ethereal Planes and Tarma and Kethry also had a dealing with a pretty nasty Demon from the Ethereal Planes. That leads me to believe that it would be possible for a benign being to come out of an Ethereal Plane. This would IMO explain why Gwena has no human experience to draw on but at the same time is obviously very intelligent. As far as who or what answered the Baron's prayer/spell I am not sure. But in WOFury ,pg.107, the spirit Vanyel says "This is Sorrows and I am Vanyel Ashkevron. I am still in the service of the Goddess and Valdemar." Does Vanyel mean the Star-Eyed Goddess, whom he was assisting with diversionary tactics for Falconsbane, or does he mean an entirely different Diety - maybe the one who answered Baron Valdemar's prayer/spell? **************************************************************************** Ele wrote: >What has me puzzled is those dream encounters Kero and Eldan have, and >which Eldan admits at the end of BTS, that were somehow his doing. >However, I cannot see what gift could actually account for those dreams. >They are both mindspeakers, granted, but the dreams seem to be much more >than mere speech projection. They both interact, they share their >feelings, and they even make love in their dreams. I have been skimming the Archives (recent ones from this year anyway) and there seems to be some confusion on whether Kero and Eldan are lifebonded. At one point someone said that they thought they heard or read somewhere that ML stated that they were not a lifebonded couple. But I have always thought that they were, especially because of the dreams they shared. Unless Eldan has a very powerful gift that was never mentioned, lifebonding would be the most logical explanation on why they were able to communicate in their dreams. If they really are not a lifebonded couple than I am just as puzzled as you are:) **************************************************************************** Nighthawk wrote: >Now this is just speculation, but what if Elspeth got a GB Companion >because whatever deity watches over Valdemar wanted to have magic back and >1) gave Elspeth mage-potential, 2) sent Gwena, the only other GB in >Valdemar once she was born, to Elspeth. *snip*. Actually Elspeth did not have Mage-Potential but rather a Mage-Gift. See WOFate, pg.173, "She was the bearer of an untrained, but major Mage-Gift." IMO Elspeth was not given this Mage-Gift but rather inherited it from her forefather Vanyel. When it became apparent to the Deity that watches over Valdemar that Elspeth had a powerful Mage-Gift, I believe it was then decided that no ordinary Companion would do for her. So Gwena was incarnated (full grown) for Elspeth by that Deity (with Rolan's help of course) and Elspeth along with Talia is made to forget the fact that Gwena was never born the way typical Companions were. **************************************************************************** Elisiande wrote: >*snip* Could it be that Savil Chose to be reincarnated at this time >because the Mage restriction was about to be lifted? IMO Savil Chose Kero for personality reasons and not Magical reasons. Savil's knowledge of Magic seems to be an added bonus though she doesn't seem to do much with it. I wonder if because Savil was a Mage when she was human could she continue to be a Mage as a Companion? Gwena claims to be a Mage in the Winds Trilogy (not sure exactly where or which book). I know Gwena is Grove Born so she is special. But it still brings up an interesting question in my mind- Can Companions retain their own gifts from when they were human along with what they have been given by being reincarnated as a Companion? I haven't seen any real evidence of this but it doesn't mean it is not possible-right? **************************************************************************** Whew thats it for tonight. Sorry this has been so long:)) I hope I made sense because I have this awful habit of doing this too late at night:))))))) Blessed Be.....Jess ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 08:35:35 -0400 From: Jennifer Lucy Cornelius To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Technical question -Reply Message-ID: Vanyel wrote: >OK I'm gettimg the same answer that all Heardls learn ground¢er but why would someone say with a firestarting gift need to sheild? >> The one main reason I would think that someone would need to ground and sheild with a firestarting gift would be to protect themselves from their gift... remember firestarting is used as a weapon later on against the empires mages... if a trainee didn't know how to control his gift... perchance it couldl overwhelm him..?? Lady Rose -+AT+-}-}---- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 07:06:25 -0500 From: nme848-+AT+-hecky.acns.nwu.edu (Nina Ehgartner) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Really long Braid-Randale,Baron Valdemar,Gwena,Kero & Eldan,Elspeth, & Savil. Message-ID: <199706121306.AA042810816-+AT+-hecky.acns.nwu.edu> > >Interesting theory but I have to disagree. I don't think that Baron >Valdemar prayed to his ancestors. Nor do I think that the first Companions >were the long dead ancestors. I believe that praying to the Deities of the >very people he and his people ran from would contradict his apparent belief >system. Since we know very little about him one can only assume and >theorize. So here it goes....The Legend of Baron Valdemar, as stated in >WOFate pg.13, "wrought what was half a prayer and half a spell, begging all >benign powers for their aid in this desire of his" (i.e. determination of >worthy successors to the throne of Valdemar). This just hit me...could what the Baron recited have been something like the Oathbreaking? After Tarma and Kethry performed the Oathbreaking ceremony, Kethry realized that it also was a spell. Connected (in a way..and this moght be a strech) to that was when Kethry called Idra's spirit back for revenge against Raschar. Now, to me, when Idra's spirit came through the gate, it made me thing of what it would be like when a grove born Companion emerged and joined the others. As for Van still being in the service of hte goddess and Valdemar, I think he was referring to the star-eyed. Because he was trained and spent time with the Tayledras, it makes sense that he also was obligated to watch over, portect, adn heal the land. Nina Ehgartner Admissions Assistant-Office of Admissions and Financial Aid J.L. Kellogg Graduate School of Management email: nme848-+AT+-hecky.acns.nwu.edu Phone: (847) 491-3308 Fax: (847) 491-4960 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 10:45:11 -0400 From: Jill To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk, jilly-+AT+-dns.ida.net Subject: Re: Technical question -Reply Message-ID: <199706121445.KAA20159-+AT+-greynet.net> Everyone here is talking about firestarting which while one of the more (forgive the pun) flashy gifts isn't the only one which the ground and centering plays a part in, the ground and center from what I understand sets up the basis for the shield, and the need for the shield should be obvious. While concentrating on using ANY gift unless the shield is in place an enemy mage can take advantage of the person by using a mind speaking gift to destroy or redirect the focus and or the mage him/herself. Jilly At 02:17 PM 6/12/97 +0100, Jennifer Lucy Cornelius wrote: >Vanyel wrote: >>OK > I'm gettimg the same answer that all Heardls learn ground¢er but >why would someone say with a firestarting gift need to sheild? >>> > >The one main reason I would think that someone would need to ground >and sheild with a firestarting gift would be to protect themselves from >their gift... remember firestarting is used as a weapon later on against >the empires mages... if a trainee didn't know how to control his gift... >perchance it couldl overwhelm him..?? > >Lady Rose >-+AT+-}-}---- > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 97 09:14:37 -0800 From: "LWhitman" To: Subject: Re: Velgarth Message-ID: <9706128661.AA866132335-+AT+-ccmailhost.nwcomputing.com> Velgarth is the world where valdemar is located. Starfire _______________________________________________________________________________ Subject: Velgarth From: at Internet Date: 6/12/97 2:49 AM My apologies to everyone for a short post and for asking a dumb question. What is Velgarth? Ihave been reading Misty books for a while and I don't recall this series. Roxanne Nolan "Catch you on the flipside" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 13:03:12 CST From: "PAUL REVERE" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Really long Braid-Randale,Baron Valdemar,Gwena,Kero & Eldan, Message-ID: <40A577746F-+AT+-future.judson.edu> I wonder if because Savil was a Mage when she was > human could she continue to be a Mage as a Companion? Gwena claims to be a > Mage in the Winds Trilogy (not sure exactly where or which book). I know > Gwena is Grove Born so she is special. Actually, Gwena also states--or implies very heavily--in one of the Winds books that all Companions are Mages, that they have the ability to draw on Mage energy. She smugly announces that that is how they stay so white, and run so fast, and have such endurance over normal horses. Jacquelle Nunc lento sonitu dicunt, Morieris. (Now, this bell tolling softly for another, says to me, Thou must die.) Meditation 17, John Donne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 14:07:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Hamlet To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Sun and Shadows(God and Goddess) Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Jun 1997, Steve Mattila wrote: > >From Herald's, harpers, and Havoc, page 39(song book): > "Rothas Sunsinger and Lythe Shadowdancer were a legendary pair of early > Heralds, the Valdemar equivalent of Romeo and Juliet. Each of the 2 > lovers were heir to a terrible famiy curse. Rothas Sunsinger would fall > into a trance at dusk, while Lythe Shadowdancer could not bear the touch > of the sun. They met at dusk once, and of course fell in love > immediately. After much searching and heartache, they finally managed to > acquire enough magical power to break both of their spells, and return to > Valdemar, and became Heralds." (snip) Not a criticism directed at you, but doesn't that seem a lot more like LADYHAWK than Romeo and Juliet? --Hamlet "Some people do heroin, you're doing God... I need some sandpaper." --The Rapture ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 14:17:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Hamlet To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: mega braid Message-ID: > > How when, and why did the Holderkin evolve? According to Talia, > "Holderkin are originally from outkingdom -- Karse, if you're curious. > They fled from religious persecution; their religion is based on a (snip) All very well-thought-out and insightful questions, without a doubt, but it occurs to me to wonder if (delightful as these debates are--no sarcasm intended) we're maybe over analysing just a wee bit. This smacks a bit of ripping Shakespeare from end to end when all the poor man was trying to do was make a deadline so he wouldn't starve--hmm. maybe that was a bit more than I needed to say to preface my point. Implication: Maybe Misty wrote in the Holderkin so that she could have a good jumping-off place for her series. She *was* introducing an entire world, after all, and more than likely figuring it out as she wrote. Starting her main character from the bottom up was a logical step. The further she gets in, she is forced to come up with an explanation. > On , Hamlet said: >Karal is leaving An'desha and hears bells ringing > from the palace clock. >Therefore, whatever the inherent problems of > candles may be, it is logical >to assume that candlemark is simply a > term, and they have clocks the >same as us... > > Could you find the textevd, please? I went looking, but all I found was > the place in SW where Karal first meets An'desha. At the end of their > meeting, "Bells from the Collegium marked the hour, and the young man > started as he counted them." [SW, hardcover ed., ch. 10, p. 204.] It is > clear from this and other references to bells that the Palace/Collegium > complex has some way of determining time, and rings bells so that those > within hearing can know the time (and keep relatively synchronous > schedules.) But I don't see any clear evidence that they have clocks. > > Kara Caught. That actually *was* my textevd. Having only read it once, details are not forthcoming. No clear evidence, yes. But that's what speculating is all about, thus, the purpose of this newsgroup, no? --Hamlet "Some people do heroin, you're doing God... I need some sandpaper." --The Rapture ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 17:21:58 -0500 (CDT) From: Gypsy To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: mega braid Message-ID: <01IJZRC2I0TU9I6CF5-+AT+-swt.edu> It is more than likely that Holderkin folk were refugees from Karse's holy war that took place during the LHM Magic's Price. ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1233 **********************************