MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1238 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Bardic Voices by Selene Tan 2) Re:Van's pict on DAW by Nighthawk 3) Re: Van's pict on DAW by ulmont-+AT+-cc.gatech.edu (Richard Campbell) 4) grounding & centering/Rune/MO Choice/reincarnation & gender by "John and Kara Pekar" 5) Re: grounding & centering/Rune/MO Choice/reincarnation & gender by snowshadow-+AT+-juno.com 6) Re: grounding & centering/Rune/MO Choice/reincarnation & gender by kccdiana-+AT+-mcld.com (Diana Hanson) 7) WInd to thy wings by Lydia Hales 8) Re: /reincarnation & gender/ by "Daniel O'Neal" 9) Re: /reincarnation & gender/ by Eos419-+AT+-aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 17:45:26 +0800 From: Selene Tan To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Bardic Voices Message-ID: <2.2.32.19970617094526.0067d3dc-+AT+-qinet.net> Lady Sophia said: >I'm rereading The Robin and the Kestrel just now (which I still don't like >all that much), and it strikes me as very odd that Kestrel's uncle >wouldn't want to keep him close at hand, so he could be spied upon. >Better yet, keep him at Court, and have him work closely with Victor! (I >think Victor was his son's name). If *I* had a pretender, interested or >not, to *my* throne, I'd be sure I knew where he was all the time! That was one reason Kestrel married Gwyna. I think the law in the kingdom was that anyone with gypsy blood or who was married to a gypsy was ineligible for rulership. Of course he *did* care about her, but he also wanted to be able to wander around, so marrying Gwyna was a very uhh... convenient way to wrap everything up the way he wanted. There's textevd for this in the last bit of TLatW, but I read that book from the library, which is closed for the "summer" (now *isn't* summer, it's the rainy season. summer is what the school calls it.), so could someone please look for that part? I'm just curious if anyone's read The Fairy Tale series, which is this set of books by various authors, which are fairy tales set in the modern world. If anyone has, do you know how many there are and what those are? (I only have 2.) Okeydokey, that's it for now! -Selene Tan =&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&==&=&=&=&=&= Selene T. selly-+AT+-geocities.com|seltan-+AT+-qinet.net http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8121/ =&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&==&=&=&=&=&= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 21:53:11 -0700 From: Nighthawk To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re:Van's pict on DAW Message-ID: On 6/16/97, Angeline Sim wrote: >BTW, to anyone who has read abt Taran the asst pig-keeper, have you noticed >that Taran looks surprisingly like Vanyel on the covers of the books by >DAW? Oh, and surprise, surprise, Taran has a white horse! ord?) >(To the Knights of Fairgrove:Do I get to add the sword?) (Snip) I agree totally. If anyone doesn't know the book with Taran in it, it's 'The Book of the Three' by Lloyd Alexander. Well, maybe Angeline is talking about a diffrent book, since Taran doesn't get his horse till a later book, or perhaps it's that one. It's ben a long time since I read them. Also, you do get to add the sword, you can even do a variation on the variation, like mine. Nighthawk -+AT+-=DF=DF=DF=DF=DF{}::::::::::::::::::::> Knight-in-Training of Fairgrove -May you die in peace, even if you do not live in it. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 12:31:38 -0400 (EDT) From: ulmont-+AT+-cc.gatech.edu (Richard Campbell) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Van's pict on DAW Message-ID: <199706171631.MAA13693-+AT+-felix.cc.gatech.edu> > I agree totally. If anyone doesn't know the book with Taran in it, it's > 'The Book of the Three' by Lloyd Alexander. Or any one of the entire Prydain (sp?) Chronicles, but most probably "Taran Wanderer," as that one is the only one guaranteed to have Taran on the cover. -- Richard Campbell "All I'm saying is that if I ever refer to these gt3678b-+AT+-prism.gatech.edu as the best years of my life, ("Pink" Floyd, Dazed and Confused) please remind me to kill myself." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 12:26:42 -0400 From: "John and Kara Pekar" To: "MISTY" Subject: grounding & centering/Rune/MO Choice/reincarnation & gender Message-ID: <199706171728.NAA22029-+AT+-sasquatch.crosslink.net> Lady Sophia wrote: >I was under the impression that Grounding and Centering >were the elementary steps required among all the Mindgifted >(which makes it very strange that Talia's class was never taught >it!). I always wondered if the others in her class had difficulties >with their Gifts as well - I don't remember her missing any classes >before this actually started. The reason/excuse that was given for Talia not having been trained in Grounding and Centering was that Ylsa had assumed that the Healers were handling that (which implies that G&C is part of standard Healer training?), and the Healers had assumed that the Heralds were handling it, because she seemed to have everything under control. Could the same assumption have been made about the other members of the class? Remember, Drake and Edric already shared Mindspeech, or something likeit, through their twin bond; perhaps they had had some form of training already. Neave's projective Gifts had been identified some time before the class started, because he'd been giving fellow Trainees nightmares. Presumably he, like Talia, had already received some basic instruction in order to avoid affecting other people (or in Talia's case, being affected by them.) Personally, I think the responsibility for the gaps in Talia's training must lie with Elcarth, who taught her to shield *without* G&C. How very remiss of the usually astute Dean! >Was anyone else disappointed in the way Rune disappeared >after TLaW - it seems a like a cop-out - once she's married >and has a baby, she just disappears! And why isn't she a >Laurel Bard, too? I was disappointed at Rune's "disappearance", although it makes a certain amount of sense that neither she nor Taliesin would be featured as central characters again...The Free Bards travel, which means that there is likely to be, or *can* be, a Free Bard anywhere anything interesting is "happening". However, the Kestrel thing is likely to be the most interesting thing to "happen" in [Birnam, isn't it?] for a while. Since Rune and Taliesin are now essentially immobile, and based in Birnam, there probably won't be any stories to tell about them. That said, I do agree that ML has a tendency to discard characters, or at least relegate them to the fringes of the story, once they have a stable relationship and especially if they have children. Last time we talked about this, someone pointed out that motherhood does tend to crimp the adventurer's style. True; but look at Talia. There she is, one of the most important people in the Valdemaran Court/government and in the Heraldic Circle, during a time when momentous events are taking place. We know that she was deeply involved in the negotiations with Karse, even going there as ambassador and being made an honorary Sun-Priest. We know that before that, she went to Rethwellan to plead for their help in combatting Ancar. This woman has *not* led a placid life since her marriage! So why relegate her to the sidelines? For instance, why not tell at least some of the Storm trilogy from her point of view? We get Karal's, An'desha's, Firesong's, Elspeth's, and Tremane's points of view, but once none of these folks are in residence in Haven, we have little sense of what's happening there. Talia's viewpoint could have been used to keep us abreast of events in Haven -- even if only briefly. ***************************** Kat wrote: >How can the Companion choose another Herald for the >Queen's own position???? If you are a HERALD would you >not already have a Companion??? You obviously can't have >2 Companions. This is a topic that keeps coming up. [Query to those in charge of the NewbieFest and/or FAQ -- is this one on the list of frequently-asked?] It got a lot of discussion in mid-March (check the archives beginning Mar. 14, 1997.) One hypothesis, backed up by textevd which I won't repeat, is that when someone is destined to become Monarch's Own, but is going to need Heraldic training before the death of the current MO, s/he is Chosen but not Bonded with his/her Companion. (Textevd is found in LHM; see archives for textevd and arguments pro and con.) ************************************************** Tanager wrote: >When Heralds are reincarnated as Companions, is it always >as the same gender? That is, do men always come back as >stallions and women as mares? What about >she'chorne? As far as I can remember, the textevd (such as it is) indicates that Companions retain the gender they had as Heralds. (Look at the hints given about Gala, Yfandes, Savil/Sayvil, Jasen/Jaysen, and Florian.) I'm not sure I understand your question about she'chorne, though. Are you asking whether they would still be she'chorne, or become hetero? AFAIK, there's no textual evidence either way, even in hints. Or are you asking whether she'chorne would change genders? I doubt it. Please correct me (nicely) if I'm wrong, but I'm under the impression that she'chorne does *not* mean that the person wishes to *be* a member of the opposite sex; rather, it means that he or she is attracted to people of the same gender as him/herself. In other words, a she'chorne person is comfortable with his/her gender. [The need to be, or sense that one really should have been, a member of the opposite sex is something else entirely. I believe the term for it is "transsexual", but I'm not absolutely sure.] Therefore, it wouldn't be necessary or helpful for a she'chorne Herald to reincarnate as a Companion of the opposite gender. (Kara looks around nervously, hoping she hasn't opened yet another can of worms.) ********************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 13:06:11 -0500 From: snowshadow-+AT+-juno.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Cc: snowshadow-+AT+-juno.com Subject: Re: grounding & centering/Rune/MO Choice/reincarnation & gender Message-ID: <19970617.130611.3214.0.snowshadow-+AT+-juno.com> Well, this is my first post to the list, so....here goes.... > >Kat wrote: >>How can the Companion choose another Herald for the >>Queen's own position???? If you are a HERALD would you >>not already have a Companion??? You obviously can't have >>2 Companions. > >This is a topic that keeps coming up. [Query to those in charge of >the >NewbieFest and/or FAQ -- is this one on the list of frequently-asked?] > It >got a lot of discussion in mid-March (check the archives beginning >Mar. 14, >1997.) One hypothesis, backed up by textevd which I won't repeat, is >that >when someone is destined to become Monarch's Own, but is going to need >Heraldic training before the death of the current MO, s/he is Chosen >but >not Bonded with his/her Companion. > Right. In MPromise, when Van is checking Jisa for her Heraldic Gifts, he and Yfandes converse and come to the conclusion that while she will be MO, it could be some time...there fore she will be chosen by another Companion, but it will not be a bonded Choosing until she is made MO and Taver chooses her. So presumably this is what happens to all presumptive MO....they are Chosen, but it is not a bonded choosing. Of course, I could be wrong.... :) Snowshadow ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 13:20:57 -0700 From: kccdiana-+AT+-mcld.com (Diana Hanson) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: grounding & centering/Rune/MO Choice/reincarnation & gender Message-ID: <33A6F1A9.1454-+AT+-mcld.com> Okay! I'm sick of this stuff. Who knows how to get off this list server. I've tried twice and it hasn't worked. What address am I supposed to writing to? Diana ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 11:29:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Lydia Hales To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: WInd to thy wings Message-ID: Heyla Listsibs, I guess that this is "bye" for awhile. I have a summer job with no email access. I also found out yesterday that I can't have an email account at PSU as a graduate (yes, I finally graduated this spring). So, when I get back, I'm going to have to find another way to get email access. *grumble, sigh* I hope all of you have a fun and safe summer. Ob Misty: sorry, I can't think of one right now. Wind to thy wings Lady Lydia ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 17:05:13 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel O'Neal" To: Subject: Re: /reincarnation & gender/ Message-ID: On 06/17/97 at 19:00:28 John and Kara Pekar said: >As far as I can remember, the textevd (such as it is) indicates that >Companions retain the gender they had as Heralds. (Look at the hints given >about Gala, Yfandes, Savil/Sayvil, Jasen/Jaysen, and Florian.) >I'm not sure I understand your question about she'chorne, though. Are you >asking whether they would still be she'chorne, or become hetero? AFAIK, >there's no textual evidence either way, even in hints. Yeah, that's what I was wondering. I didn't mean to open such a can of worms. For the record, I am gay and have no problem with my identity, so if anyone misinterpreted my question as ignorance, I apologize. (I actually realized after I wrote the thing that I failed to phrase it as well as I should have. Neapolitan sheep to anyone it bothered.) Anyway, Since a male Herald always seems to come back as a male Companion, and the same for females, I was thought someone might have an opinion as to whether a shaych male of female would retain his or her orientation when reborn as a Companion. I know it's silly, but it just sort of occurred to me, you know? I've talked to people I know who believe in reincarnation, and they seem to be about evenly split as to whether gender is an innate part of one's spirit or just a function of what body you happen to find yourself in. In Misty's world, it seems that you're either male or female forever. Speaking of things that have no textual evidence, though, there is one thing that sort of annoys me about this group. Now, I've only been around here a little while, but I have enjoyed it very much. However, I have noticed that, even when there is no evidence one way or the other, people are so afraid of the textevd nazis that they rerely even venture a guess or state their opinion about anything. Come on! This is sup- posed to be for fun, right? So if there's a point that Misty has never elaborated on, and you have a good idea, share it! I know I'd like to hear what you have to say, and I'm sure I'm not alone. Opinions? Tanager ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 18:58:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Eos419-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: /reincarnation & gender/ Message-ID: <970617185713_1525554225-+AT+-emout08.mail.aol.com> 'k hi. this is the first time I've posted anything, so if I say something stupid, I'm sorry. To the question of does one retain one's sexual orientation after reincarnation, the only thing I can think of is Tylendel/Stefen. If one is reincarnated as a Companion, though...I dunno. There is no mention of any of the Companions being shaych, although it's not beyond possibility. ok, I just wanted to say that. No long, in depth analysis. So much for first impressions. Kaeldra (A magic-bean buyer) ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1238 **********************************