MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1244 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re:Saych companions by "weaver" 2) Re: Yfandes/Jisa and Lyra/Kirs by Gypsy 3) Re: If I Pay Thee Not In Gold by Gypsy 4) Monarch's Own by "weaver" 5) Re: Vanyel/dreams by "Tay Hua Hui" 6) Re: Mage-Gift/Vanyel. by "Tay Hua Hui" 7) Re: Mage-Gift/Vanyel. by "Tay Hua Hui" 8) Re: If I Pay Thee Not In Gold by georg-+AT+-swbell.net 9) Re: Mage-Gift/Vanyel. by snowshadow-+AT+-juno.com 10) Re: Candlemarks/Companions/Elves/Pronounciation/Shavri/Bard by Naec1214-+AT+-aol.com 11) Thank you! by snowshadow-+AT+-juno.com 12) Re: Saych companions by snowshadow-+AT+-juno.com 13) Re: Mage-Gift/Vanyel. by TheEmpore-+AT+-aol.com 14) Re: Braid-Companions, reincarnation, Stef by Tyrrell McAllister 15) Re: Candlemarks by Tyrrell McAllister 16) Re: Saych companions by TheEmpore-+AT+-aol.com 17) Re: Mage-Gift/Vanyel. by WaterSong1-+AT+-aol.com 18) Re: Mage-Gift/Vanyel. by WaterSong1-+AT+-aol.com 19) Mage Gifts & Potential/Elvenblood by "Selene T." 20) by "Selene T." 21) Re: Vanyel./homosexual animals/Piers Anthony/disappearing Gift by "Angeline" 22) Van's Bardic Gift by Issica Baron 23) Re: Saych companions by "A. Sleep, Geriatric Surgeon" 24) Re: Candlemarks/Companions/Elves/Pronounciation/Shavri/Bard by "Tay Hua Hui" 25) Vanyel and Gifts by Greg Wooledge ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 20:45:02 -0600 From: "weaver" To: Subject: Re:Saych companions Message-ID: <199706220240.UAA26010-+AT+-ns1.info2000.net> >*snip*Are there homosexual horses . . . homosexual animals of any kind? Does anybody >know? Yes. I have seen more than one adult (and/or puppy) male dog have a taste for other males (dogs, most of the time) Strawberry jelly sheep to all, Nightfalcon ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 21:43:18 -0500 (CDT) From: Gypsy To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Yfandes/Jisa and Lyra/Kirs Message-ID: <01IKCL3I7XMQ9I4N5B-+AT+-swt.edu> Though Misty's text seems to indicate that the twons would King and MO, I was secretly hoping that Talia's child would be Monarch's Own. Any takes on this? Gypsy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 21:50:33 -0500 (CDT) From: Gypsy To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: If I Pay Thee Not In Gold Message-ID: <01IKCLAQWS489I4N5B-+AT+-swt.edu> I have only read one Piers Anothony book and that was the ONLY one I will ever read. IMHO, his writing was childish and covered the thinnest of plots. Misty shows much more imagination. I hope she didn't take his thinly veiled comments to heart. Chocolate-covered pecan-sprinkled sheep to my listsibs! Gypsy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 21:22:55 -0600 From: "weaver" To: Subject: Monarch's Own Message-ID: <199706220318.VAA26773-+AT+-ns1.info2000.net> Gypsy wrote: : Though Misty's text seems to indicate that the twons would King and MO, : I was secretly hoping that Talia's child would be Monarch's Own. I agree. I had thought of this myself, but maybe one of the children (either Talia's or one of the twins) is supposed to die later on, and therfore there would only be one candidate for Monarch's Own. Also, Talia and Dirk's child might not want to be Monarch's Own, or have a different calling. Blue Gumdrop sheep and salmon wrysa to all, Nightfalcon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 00:49:11 +0700 From: "Tay Hua Hui" To: Subject: Re: Vanyel/dreams Message-ID: <199706220407.MAA18943-+AT+-melati.singnet.com.sg> Maybe Vanyel could have eventually become a herald later in his life on his own if 'Lendel hadn't died ... ---------- > From: Naec1214-+AT+-aol.com > To: hhtaymgc-+AT+-singnet.com.sg > Subject: Vanyel/dreams > Date: Sunday, June 22, 1997 8:13 AM > > > Bright the day, listsibs! > > I have a question that's been bothering me ever since I read the LHMage > books. In MPawn Vanyel started having the "ice dream" long > before he had even reached Haven. Doesn't that suggest that even though he > only had Potential at the time that he was already starting to pick up things > by Foresight? The early dreams could be dismissed as just a comparison to his > emotional state I quess, but then once he reaches Haven the dreams realy > start to seem like he was somehow tapping into his Gift unconsiously.(pg > 114). But what makes it realy confusing(to me,anyway) is that 'Lendel states > that Van's gifts are "locked" & "not active" after that on pg.185. > (((((This next bit is pure speculation so Textevd devotees might want to > skip it)))) > What I was wondering is if anyone thinks it's possible that while Van was > in a dream state that he somehow acessed his gift. I don't think Savil & crew > would have noticed, because they already assumed that Van didn't have any > Gifts. Most of the Collegium would have been asleep too, and in the middle of > all those Gifts I think that whatever small portion of Foresight Van might > have used would have got lost in the shuffle. Opinions? > > Marzipan sheep to everyobody, > Lynne -Naec1214-+AT+-aol.com > P.S.(:I refuse to jump on the wyrsa bandwagon, one candy coated creature at a > time is enough for me! :) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 00:51:59 +0700 From: "Tay Hua Hui" To: Subject: Re: Mage-Gift/Vanyel. Message-ID: <199706220407.MAA20302-+AT+-melati.singnet.com.sg> I think that misty may have meant that he had the gift , but not enough to get training as a bard or that he was far too important as a mage to get training . ---------- > From: Hyllarr-+AT+-aol.com > To: hhtaymgc-+AT+-singnet.com.sg > Subject: Re: Mage-Gift/Vanyel. > Date: Sunday, June 22, 1997 7:42 AM > > hello ya'll > > when Savil is listing Vanyel's gifts in MPawn, i don't remember her > mentioning Healing. but in MPrice, after Vanyel had just gotten beaten up (by > the 'bandits'), the rogue Healer (i don't remember his name) says that the > only thing holding Vanyel together was a fine net of healing energies around > him, which implies that he was Healing himself. and when Vanyel goes > under-cover as a minstrel (MPromise), how can he be a minstrel when he's got > the Bardic gift, but they never mention it again after Savil does right after > she finished checking his channels. HELP!!! my friend and i cannot figure > this out and it's driving us nuts!!! > > Wind to thy wings, listsibs! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 00:53:05 +0700 From: "Tay Hua Hui" To: Subject: Re: Mage-Gift/Vanyel. Message-ID: <199706220407.MAA17152-+AT+-melati.singnet.com.sg> Look at it this way , he can't be Mage gifted and have Bardic immunity at the same time . ---------- > From: Windstorm > To: hhtaymgc-+AT+-singnet.com.sg > Subject: Re: Mage-Gift/Vanyel. > Date: Sunday, June 22, 1997 6:46 AM > > >BTW: Did anyone notice that Vanyel had the Bardic Gift after he was > >blasted open, but we never hear about it after Magic's Pawn (and really, > >not even then, except for Savil's throwaway comment). > > I thought he used it when he was travelling around to disguise himself? > And I may be confusing books here, but doesn't the bardic gift come with > The Voice? Where you can get other people to obey when you use it? If I'm > right, then Vanyel would probably use it, like telling guards to sleep or > something. > > > >Well when I was younger I had three bunnies that all shared a very large > >cage together. Two of the bunnies were male and one was female. The two > >males showed no interest in the female and I, on a variety of occasions, > >found them trying to mount each other. Needless to say we never got any > >baby bunnies:) > > In a lot of animals, one male mounting another is mainly a sign of that > males' dominence over the other. We see this a lot in dogs who are > constantly trying to establish a heirarchy(sp?) over each other, and > therefore see a lot of mounting. Even females do it to other males and > females. I've seen elk do it too. I don't know about rabbits, but maybe > they do this too. But horses don't do that, so my stallion was definately > leaning towards males. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 23:11:23 -0500 From: georg-+AT+-swbell.net To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: If I Pay Thee Not In Gold Message-ID: <33ACA5EB.3049-+AT+-swbell.net> Gypsy wrote: > > I have only read one Piers Anothony book and that was the ONLY one I will > ever read. IMHO, his writing was childish and covered the thinnest of plots. > Misty shows much more imagination. I hope she didn't take his thinly veiled > comments to heart. > > Chocolate-covered pecan-sprinkled sheep to my listsibs! > GypsySome of piers books are quite good but some have taken a very dark turn, for example firefly.... sorry for the short post ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 00:01:19 -0500 From: snowshadow-+AT+-juno.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Cc: snowshadow-+AT+-juno.com Subject: Re: Mage-Gift/Vanyel. Message-ID: <19970622.000120.3486.0.snowshadow-+AT+-juno.com> On Sun, 22 Jun 1997 01:44:04 +0100 (BST) Hyllarr-+AT+-aol.com writes: >hello ya'll > > when Savil is listing Vanyel's gifts in MPawn, i don't remember her >mentioning Healing. but in MPrice, after Vanyel had just gotten beaten >up (by >the 'bandits'), the rogue Healer (i don't remember his name) says that >the >only thing holding Vanyel together was a fine net of healing energies >around >him, which implies that he was Healing himself. and when Vanyel goes >under-cover as a minstrel (MPromise), how can he be a minstrel when >he's got >the Bardic gift, but they never mention it again after Savil does >right after >she finished checking his channels. HELP!!! my friend and i cannot >figure >this out and it's driving us nuts!!! > > Wind to thy wings, listsibs! > ****Hmmm.... good questions... On the first, if I remember correctly (ye GODS I can't wait to get my books back so I can confirm my memories), Savil says that all channels, with the sole exception of Healing, were open (this in MPawn). But then Misty says in MPrice that he WAS Healing himself...so, I don't know. Maybe this is a case of the gift showing up as needed? On the Bardic Gift, I'm as confused as the rest of you. But I can conjecture that perhaps he did not want to use the Bardic Gift (assuming he had it) when he was Masquerading, for fear someone would sense him using the energies inherent in the gift. Just a supposition on my part. Mint Oreo Sheep to all! SnowShadow ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 01:06:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Naec1214-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Candlemarks/Companions/Elves/Pronounciation/Shavri/Bard Message-ID: <970622010632_-159985157-+AT+-emout10.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-06-21 23:20:06 EDT, MorningStar writes: << It was after 'Lendel dies that Van has the ice dream again and it changes into the foresight of the battle. >> Actually I was referring to the dream on page 114 that does mention "an army of mindless monsters" and that dream took place before 'Lendel died. I thought that if Van was somehow tapping into a gift he would get the vauge impression of the battle but not the actual events. But your right it *could* very well just have been a coincedence that the early dreams mirrored the later ones. Well anyway that's what the list is for--different viewpoints.BTW has any one else notice the books are even *more* enjoyable(:I didn't think that was possible!:) after joining the list and hearing so many different outlooks? Raspberry sheep for all, Lynne ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 00:11:24 -0500 From: snowshadow-+AT+-juno.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Cc: snowshadow-+AT+-juno.com Subject: Thank you! Message-ID: <19970622.001124.3486.2.snowshadow-+AT+-juno.com> Thanks to ALL who named the Elves in L.A. books for me. I probably still won't be able to find them, but at least I know what to hunt for...*grin* About that candlemark thread. Ah, I want to say that in Storm Warning, Karal notices that the Valdemaran Candlemark candles are divided into 24 marks, similar to Karse's Mark...therefore, I'd guess that the candlemark and the Karsite Mark are hour increments, going up to 24 to make a full day. Again, just speculating.... Butterfinger Sheep to all! Snowshadow ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 00:05:35 -0500 From: snowshadow-+AT+-juno.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Cc: snowshadow-+AT+-juno.com Subject: Re: Saych companions Message-ID: <19970622.001124.3486.1.snowshadow-+AT+-juno.com> On Sun, 22 Jun 1997 04:09:24 +0100 (BST) "weaver" writes: >>*snip*Are there homosexual horses . . . homosexual animals of any >kind? >Does anybody >know? Ummmm.....I had a couple of friends who owned lesbian hamsters, as odd as this sounds. They put them in separate cages with male hamsters, but it didn't work...as they said, "They just gripped the bars with their little paws and stared longingly at each other." Now, I've seen the hamsters, so I can attest to the accuracy of the tale... Snowshadow ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 01:21:33 -0400 (EDT) From: TheEmpore-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Mage-Gift/Vanyel. Message-ID: <970622012132_1012164080-+AT+-emout13.mail.aol.com> your from juno.com? do you live in il? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 22:25:00 -0700 From: Tyrrell McAllister To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Braid-Companions, reincarnation, Stef Message-ID: <33ACB6FD.5434-+AT+-sonic.net> > > Not Home wrote: > > >I thought there was some other reason for Stef not to have Mage > >ability...even for all he had Bardic. I was thinking about this and maybe the reason Stef had no Mage Gift was because all of the Mage-Gifted children were being killed and if he had been killed as a child he would never have been able to get with Vanyel and that was the whole point of him being reincarnated(I think) so it was basically to save a lot of trouble and make sure that Vanyel and Stef got together. Wind to thy Wings, Molly ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 22:40:04 -0700 From: Tyrrell McAllister To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Candlemarks Message-ID: <33ACBAAD.7F9D-+AT+-sonic.net> MorningStar wrote: > > Issica Baron said: > >And as I recall it, they *also* use the term candlemark as a = > >measurement of distance, something like 'and they were only two = > >candlemarks from the palace when...' > > Well, and don't we say that "I only live 5 minutes from the mall" and >similar uses of time for distance? That's a fairly common use of time, >I'd guess. Makes sense to me. However, the fact that they say >"only two candlemarks from the palace" indicates that it would be a >shorter length oftime than an hour, as we've been speculating, 'cause I >don't think we'd say "only" two hours from someplace. :) It might not seem like a short amount of time if your riding in a car and it only takes a couple of hours to get somewhere but keep in mind that these people have to ride to get where they want and even with the great speed of companions it could still take days to get where you want so if you think of it that way then two hours really isn't all that much. Wind to thy wings and assorted flavored sheep to all, Molly ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 01:57:03 -0400 (EDT) From: TheEmpore-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Saych companions Message-ID: <970622015702_1788542213-+AT+-emout19.mail.aol.com> snowshadow is right i have hampsters and yhey did the same thing! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 02:06:14 -0400 (EDT) From: WaterSong1-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Mage-Gift/Vanyel. Message-ID: <970622020613_1045564511-+AT+-emout18.mail.aol.com> >*snip*Are there homosexual horses . . . homosexual animals of any kind? Does anybody >know? Yes. I have seen more than one adult (and/or puppy) male dog have a taste for other males (dogs, most of the time) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 02:26:15 -0400 (EDT) From: WaterSong1-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Mage-Gift/Vanyel. Message-ID: <970622022614_224417766-+AT+-emout03.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-06-21 19:47:41 EDT, you write: << >Well when I was younger I had three bunnies that all shared a very large >cage together. Two of the bunnies were male and one was female. The two >males showed no interest in the female and I, on a variety of occasions, >found them trying to mount each other. Needless to say we never got any >baby bunnies:) In a lot of animals, one male mounting another is mainly a sign of that males' dominence over the other. We see this a lot in dogs who are constantly trying to establish a heirarchy(sp?) over each other, and therefore see a lot of mounting. Even females do it to other males and females. I've seen elk do it too. I don't know about rabbits, but maybe they do this too. But horses don't do that, so my stallion was definately leaning towards males. >>Okay, here goes. In one of the Last Herald Mage books, the one where Vanyel goes out to the clan for "training," he has a conversation with one of Savil's sayach friends, and he says that animals are sayach in nature, and since animals are innocent, then it must be okay (or something along those lines; I read the book a year ago). I don't know if this is absolutely true, so don't quote me on it. But if someone has MPawn handy, could they please check? Anyway, I thought it might add to the discussion. Bye, chocolate flavoured sheep to all! WaterSong ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 15:36:39 +0800 From: "Selene T." To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Mage Gifts & Potential/Elvenblood Message-ID: <2.2.32.19970622073639.0068a528-+AT+-qinet.net> >Not necessarily. Gifts don't change during a lifetime (except in the case of >Vanyel....but that's a unique occurance) - however, when Griffon turned up with >Firestarting, there was discussion of how rare the gift was and that when it >does show up, there is usually a good reason for someone to have it. >*"gifts show up when we need them" > >I disagree with this comment. In one of the Last Herald Mage books (I >can't remember which one), all the children who would become mages were >being killed before they could get chosen. Wouldn't some heralds suddenly >discover that they have the mage gift? >--Nightfalcon Vanyel's Gifts didn't change. He had Mage Gift in Potential, which means that he had it, but it wasn't active. I think there are certain "channels" for different Gifts, and those were blasted open in MPawn by 'Lendel to get energy for the Gate and the wyrsa. The fact that the channels were blasted open instead of opening naturally was why he was in so much pain. From other discussions, it seems like Mage Gift may actually have turned up relatively often, but was trained as Sight. The only way heralds would suddenly discover they had mage gift would be if their channels opened, and it would be trained properly only if any Herald-Mages were still around. I think there wasn't enough time for that. Thing is, lotsa people have pointed out that maybe the reason Van fathered Jisa was so that Mage Gift would stay in the bloodline of the Monarchs, so that Elspeth would have the Gifts necessary to defeat Ancar (with some help, of course.), or IMO, just as "insurance" so that, if necessary, the gods could go and awaken that potential and/or do something to make sure whoever it was got the necessary training. ~~==TO EVERYONE WONDERING ABOUT THE SHEEP==~~ Wait a little while. The Newbie Fest is coming up soon, and the mysteries of the universe (well, of the list) will be explained. Just curious: has anyone read anything by Sylvia (Louise) Engdahl? E-mail me privately: seltan-+AT+-qinet.net Elvenbane + Elvenblood: yes, there were dragons. And elves, mostly bad. The reason they had enslaved the humans was not just because of illusion -- I rather think illusion was one of the more "trivial" things they could. Elf shot, for one, is something that would have won wars. Then I think they could actually create things from air, except that those would only last a short time. And there were also some combat magics, which I can't remember right now, only that I wouldn't want to be on the bad side of one of those elves. It was a collaboration w/ Andre Norton, and whether or not there will be a third book is undecided between them. >In mindspeech, I think that one would transcend the lang. >barrier because two words in diff. lang.s with the same meaning are >associated with the same thought or idea, which is what is mindspoken, >rather than the actual words themselves. That sounds plausible. I also support a "Unified Language Theory," basically stating that all minds actually speak & think in the same language, people just *think* they're thinking in English, or Karsite, or whatever. Okay, I made it up myself. Course, I made it up because I was trying to find a neat way to wrap up several books, some of which involve different species from different worlds MindSpeaking each other, because in that case it could be awfully hard understanding the other person, for obvious reasons. Wow! Look at the size of this thing! I think I'll shut up for now (especially since it's 11:30 pm here.) -Selene {| o{=={O)-+AT+--+AT+--+AT+-}~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~> {| Selene T. Elven Knight of Fairgrove selly-+AT+-geocities.com|seltan-+AT+-qinet.net http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8121/ {] &(=={O}-+AT+--+AT+--+AT+-}>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> {] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 16:30:13 +0800 From: "Selene T." To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Message-ID: <2.2.32.19970622083013.00685268-+AT+-qinet.net> >And as I recall it, they *also* use the term candlemark as a = >measurement of distance, something like 'and they were only two = >candlemarks from the palace when...' I think when they used it, it was like like saying that I'm within an hour's drive of my school. >I agree the only way to keep with the story feel is by animation. I'm >not talking your saturday morning cartoons! The good anime!(like the >Legend of Arislan). Plus can you imagine the FX budget if they tried to >keep up with Misty!!!!!! Well, Marvel Comics is actually pretty good. Some of the scenes in their Spiderman TV show are quite realistic. The artists who do the comics are also quite good. In fact, you should see the annual report. (I own some stocks in Marvel) There's an amazing amount of work put into it, in fact the report even has a story line! Too bad they're losing money, tho. >Umm..question, does anyone *really* know how to pronounce all the odd words? >Shay A'Chern (sp?)?? Shaych?? Yfandes? Let's see, that's all that come to >mind. but I have such a hard time spelling words I can't pronounce. In the back of Oathbreakers, there's a mini-dictionary plus pronounciation guide. There are also some song lyrics. For some reason I seem to be getting all the books which have those, and borrowing the rest. >I haven't seen the newsletter you mentioned, but I have read the book, >and I was also disturbed by the endnote he wrote to it. I don't have it >with me, but I remember the gist of it was that their collaboration >consisted of Misty writing the book and Anthony "Polishing" it, which >sounded to me like putting his name on the cover (before hers!) I think Isaac & Janet Asimov were doing the same thing whenever they collaborated. He admitted it himself in I, Asimov. His name was put on the cover before hers because he's more well known. >The elves were from different COURTS, but they all come from the same >place, Underhill and more lately, Ireland. They simply settled in >different areas of the country. There are places where the elves from one >series mention the elves from another. Again, I don't have the books with >me, but I'll look for the refs as I can, ok? :) In BtR, Tannim says to Sam while they're in Kevin Barry's that some elves over in LA (or wherever Beth, Eric and Kory were) almost faded, and that they got out of it but it wasn't pretty. Or something like that. 'Fraid I can't find the book right now to give an actual quote, but I think that's the main point. >The lifebond might have had something to do with it but I'm pretty sure ANY >healer could open herself and give all her energy to any patient and die >for him/her. Shavri was prolly just more willing to do so BECAUSE he was >her lifebonded, huh? :) I think opening an unrestricted channel was under the category of "Things you can do, but shouldn't." And at some point in the trilogy, there's a mention of maybe Shavri was Chosen as Monarch's Own because she was lifebonded to Randi. I seem to be getting into the habit of writing these *really* long posts now. Actually, there's something else I *should* be doing, but I have until Wednesday and procrastination is a way of life for me. =&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&==&=&=&=&=&= Selene T. selly-+AT+-geocities.com|seltan-+AT+-qinet.net http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8121/ =&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&=&==&=&=&=&=&= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 17:45:05 +0800 From: "Angeline" To: Subject: Re: Vanyel./homosexual animals/Piers Anthony/disappearing Gift Message-ID: <199706220946.RAA08125-+AT+-larkspur.singnet.com.sg> Hiya listsibs! > Vanyel goes out to the clan for "training," he has a conversation with one of > Savil's sayach friends, and he says that animals are sayach in nature, and > since animals are innocent, then it must be okay (or something along those > lines; I read the book a year ago). I don't know if this is absolutely true, > so don't quote me on it. But if someone has MPawn handy, could they please > check? Anyway, I thought it might add to the discussion. > > Bye, chocolate flavoured sheep to all! > WaterSong Hmm, textevd, textevd, ahh here it is! DAW, MPawn, pg278 &279: " There is in you a fear, a shame, placed there by your own doubts and the thoughts of one who knew no better. I tell you to think on this: the shay'a'chern pairing occurs _in nature_. How then, 'unnatural'? _Usual_, no; and not desirable for the species, else it would die out for lack of offspring. But not _unnatural_. The beasts of the fields are innocent as man can never be, who has the knowledge of good and evil and choice between, and they do not cast out among their ranks the shay'a'chern. There was between you and your shay'kreth'ashke much love -- only love. There is no shame in loving." - Moondance. On homosexual animals, there was a report in the newspapers sometime this year that there existed shay..I mean,... homosexual sheep. Yes, sheep. They put male sheep into the same pen? as female sheep during mating season and about 20% of the males started trying to mount each other. 20% or so weren't interested in _anything_, and the rest behaved like heteros. On the "If I Pay Thee Not In Gold" thread, There was a part where he said/wrote: " Picture a sandwich: I'm the two slices of bread. Most of the nourishment is in the center, but without the bread it wouldn't exist." and I sit here in front of the computer going like "_What_ do you mean by that?" Well, I don't think Mr Anthony was meaning to be offensive, but he did sound a bit like a stuck up monarch being forced to work with a lowly serf. Truely! He _did_ sound like that! To me at least... Sorry about offending any Piers fans out there... It's odd, the first Misty book I read was IIPTNIG, and I didn't start reading her books till late last year...two years after reading IIPTNIG. And I had _no_ idea that it was written by Misty till I took it out for its "scheduled" rereading... On Van's disappearing Gift. I'm not so sure about that, but he had his Healing Gift present at the end of MPromise... Maybe Vanyel's Healing Gift was latent? The dream about Leareth only occured(sp?) when Lendel was with Van, maybe it was a subconscious thing? Everyone has dream warnings to a certain extent... Mashmallow sheep( for the campfire Kaylie!), caramel dragons and pink wyrsa! Wind to thy Wings, TG Elven Knight and Archer of Fairgrove >>~~~~~~~~> Lady of OOPS /{\ -+AT+-#####<-+AT+->:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::> \{/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 97 13:19:57 +0200 From: Issica Baron To: Subject: Van's Bardic Gift Message-ID: <199706221113.NAA00951-+AT+-linux.fisk.helsingborg.se> Windstorm said: >>I thought he used it when he was travelling around to disguise himself? >>And I may be confusing books here, but doesn't the bardic gift come with >>The Voice? Where you can get other people to obey when you use it? If = I'm >>right, then Vanyel would probably use it, like telling guards to sleep or >>something. MorningStar replied: >I think perhaps he might have used it as Tashir although there IS no >textevd for that one... But you might be thinking of Tanya Huff's "Sing >the Four Quarters" and it's following books, in which Bards could Command >people to do things. Or perhaps Savil's "Stop-a-mob-in-full-cry" voice >that she used. That wasn't Bardic, it was just good use of tone. :) I am sure that Stef mentions somewhere that he could stop a mob in = full cry with his gift... but then again, Stef was special. Richard said: >BTW: Did anyone notice that Vanyel had the Bardic Gift after he was >blasted open, but we never hear about it after Magic's Pawn (and really, >not even then, except for Savil's throwaway comment). This really is confusing, especially because (MPromise Chap 8): Jervis says "Were you any good? Did I-" "No," Vanyel said honestly, "I didn't have the Gift..." He's saying *didn't* have, which implies that he does now, but = wouldn't he have said so then? And earlier in MPromise (Chap. 4) he tells Medren this: "You are better than I was, even at fifteen. In a few years you're = going to be better than I could ever hope to be if I practiced every = hour of my life. You have the Bardic-Gift, lad, and that's something = no amount of training will give." Now that is what I call strange. If Vanyel also has the Bardic-Gift, = then he _would_ be as good as Medren if he practiced every hour of = his life (if you ignore his bad hand)! And he's practically saying = that he doesn't have the gift... Molly said: >I was thinking about this and maybe the reason Stef had no Mage Gift was >because all of the Mage-Gifted children were being killed and if he had >been killed as a child he would never have been able to get with Vanyel >and that was the whole point of him being reincarnated(I think) so it >was basically to save a lot of trouble and make sure that Vanyel and >Stef got together. That is _such_ a good theory! That's all for now fellow recievers of Sheep and Wyrsa!! Zhai'helleva Issica Baron Knight of the O.O.P.S. Knight of the O.A.M. I Elven Knight at Fairgrove /=89\ = =B4=B4=A8`=A8`=A8`=A8`=A8`=A8`=A8`=A8`=A8`=A8`=A8`=A8`=A8`=A8`=A8`=A8`= =A8`=A8`. <-+AT+-=DF=DF=DF<{-+AT+-)=DF=DF}~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~.> <--- = (It's a force-field!) \=89/ = ``=A8=B4=A8=B4=A8=B4=A8=B4=A8=B4=A8=B4=A8=B4=A8=B4=A8=B4=A8=B4=A8=B4=A8= =B4=A8=B4=A8=B4=A8=B4=A8=B4=A8=B4=A8=B4 I ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 07:55:37 From: "A. Sleep, Geriatric Surgeon" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Saych companions Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19970622075537.2f475280-+AT+-mail.geocities.com> >Ummmm.....I had a couple of friends who owned lesbian hamsters, as odd as >this sounds. They put them in separate cages with male hamsters, but it >didn't work...as they said, "They just gripped the bars with their little >paws and stared longingly at each other." Now, I've seen the hamsters, so >I can attest to the accuracy of the tale... That's scary... And I thought Moondance was just trying to console Vanyel when he said that same-sex pairings are inevitable, even in the animal world... =) <>Jack Dorland <>Internet: http://www.geocities.com/~chakram <>Email: chakram-+AT+-geocities.com <>IRC: `Lendel <> #1 on the BORG Hit Parade: <> We all sleep in a single subroutine. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 10:56:47 +0700 From: "Tay Hua Hui" To: Subject: Re: Candlemarks/Companions/Elves/Pronounciation/Shavri/Bard Message-ID: <199706221408.WAA23026-+AT+-melati.singnet.com.sg> Maybe Vanyel could have become a herald on his own had 'Lendel had not done what he did . Wind to thy wings .... ---------- > From: Naec1214-+AT+-aol.com > To: hhtaymgc-+AT+-singnet.com.sg > Subject: Re: Candlemarks/Companions/Elves/Pronounciation/Shavri/Bard > Date: Sunday, June 22, 1997 12:21 PM > > In a message dated 97-06-21 23:20:06 EDT, MorningStar writes: > > << It was after 'Lendel > dies that Van has the ice dream again and it changes into the foresight of > the battle. >> > > > Actually I was referring to the dream on page 114 that does mention "an army > of mindless monsters" and that dream took place before 'Lendel died. I > thought that if Van was somehow tapping into a gift he would get the vauge > impression of the battle but not the actual events. But your right it *could* > very well just have been a coincedence that the early dreams mirrored the > later ones. Well anyway that's what the list is for--different viewpoints.BTW > has any one else notice the books are even *more* enjoyable(:I didn't think > that was possible!:) after joining the list and hearing so many different > outlooks? > > Raspberry sheep for all, > Lynne > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 11:40:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Greg Wooledge To: Mercedes Lackey mailing list Subject: Vanyel and Gifts Message-ID: Hyllarr-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > and when Vanyel goes > under-cover as a minstrel (MPromise), how can he be a minstrel when he's got > the Bardic gift, but they never mention it again after Savil does right after > she finished checking his channels. HELP!!! my friend and i cannot figure > this out and it's driving us nuts!!! If he did indeed have the Bardic Gift, then it would simply be a case of refraining from its use. Simple enough! Naec1214-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > What I was wondering is if anyone thinks it's possible that while Van was > in a dream state that he somehow acessed his gift. I don't think Savil & crew > would have noticed, because they already assumed that Van didn't have any > Gifts. Most of the Collegium would have been asleep too, and in the middle of > all those Gifts I think that whatever small portion of Foresight Van might > have used would have got lost in the shuffle. Opinions? I'm not yet convinced that ForeSight can be detected from a distance. It could be something passive, that lets thoughts of the future just sort of creep into the mind, rather than something active that goes and seeks them out. Sorta like passive vs. active radar. :-) "Selene T." wrote: > Thing is, lotsa people have pointed out > that maybe the reason Van fathered Jisa was so that Mage Gift would stay in > the bloodline of the Monarchs, so that Elspeth would have the Gifts > necessary to defeat Ancar (with some help, of course.), or IMO, just as > "insurance" so that, if necessary, the gods could go and awaken that > potential and/or do something to make sure whoever it was got the necessary > training. I think that's reading too much into the situation. IMHO, Vanyel was willing to father a child for his friends Randale and Shari(?) simply because they were his friends, and possibly to prevent the people of Valdemar from discovering that their king is sterile. I don't think thoughts of ensuring propagation of the Mage Gift ever crossed his mind, even subconsciously. Elspeth wasn't the only Mage-Gifted Herald of her time. She was just the first one to rediscover the Gift and get training in it. Remember, her original mission was to find a teacher who would be willing to come back with her to Valdemar in order to teach the next generation of Herald-Mages. She assumed, correctly, that there would be several people in Valdemar with the unrecognized Gift. It wasn't limited to the royal family. So, no "insurance" was really necessary. Issica Baron wrote: > Jervis says "Were you any good? Did I-" > "No," Vanyel said honestly, "I didn't have the Gift..." > > He's saying *didn't* have, which implies that he does now, but = > wouldn't he have said so then? I don't think the word "didn't" implies that he does have it now. If he does have it (I'm still not sure), then it's probably present only in a very small amount. Remember, folks, Gifts aren't a yes/no thing; a Herald might have a Gift, but only enough of it to do something trivial, which may be accomplished more easily by normal means. (E.g., someone may have just enough of the Mage Gift to start a fire, but it may be easier for that person to use flint and steel like everyone else.) Issica continues: > "You are better than I was, even at fifteen. In a few years you're = > going to be better than I could ever hope to be if I practiced every = > hour of my life. You have the Bardic-Gift, lad, and that's something = > no amount of training will give." > > Now that is what I call strange. If Vanyel also has the Bardic-Gift, = > then he _would_ be as good as Medren if he practiced every hour of = > his life (if you ignore his bad hand)! And he's practically saying = > that he doesn't have the gift... Again, if he does have the Bardic Gift, it's almost certain that he has less of it than Medren has. He probably has so little of it that it's not really worth mentioning, so he just acts as though it's not there. ------------ Greg Wooledge ------------- ------- wooledge-+AT+-kellnet.com ------- --- http://kellnet.com/wooledge/main.html --- ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1244 **********************************