MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1299 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Question in Arrow's Fall by "Julie S. Burnham" 2) Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 1297 by Brujah 3) Re: Question in Arrow's Fall and other things by raven245-+AT+-juno.com (Heidi R Fridriksson) 4) Re: Van as an accomplice? by Kris Frye 5) Re: *confused* by RoDeLiRiUm-+AT+-aol.com 6) Re: *confused* by "Ulf G. Dahlmann" 7) Re: Comments on Arrow's Fall by larsen 8) Re: Tylendel's repudiation by Ashali9928-+AT+-aol.com 9) Re: Tylendel's repudiation by Ashali9928-+AT+-aol.com 10) Kechara by Ashali9928-+AT+-aol.com 11) The light show by RTeclectic-+AT+-aol.com 12) stuff by Kilin Angels ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 20:47:41 +0000 From: "Julie S. Burnham" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Question in Arrow's Fall Message-ID: <199708120158.UAA31646-+AT+-ns.inw.net> I'm a newbie to the list, and was going to just lurk for a while to see how things went, but I have a question. On page 111 of AF, the first full paragraph's second sentence is written, "Only the Queen, Kyril, and Selenay did not join in the rejoicing." It was my understanding that Selenay *was* the Queen. Is this just a typo? If so, does anyone know how it was supposed to be written? Julie the Newbie Holder of the Glasses, Langly Division, LGAB; SSA #1 "Hey, the walls are padded. Look what I can do!" - Me ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 22:38:22 -0400 From: Brujah To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 1297 Message-ID: <199708120238.WAA02626-+AT+-nexus.idirect.com> >------------------------------ > >Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 12:42:07 -0700 >From: Bruce McAllister >To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk >Subject: Refusing being chosen >Message-ID: <33EE198D.7841-+AT+-sonic.net> > >Brujah wrote: > > > >> >Well it was my understanding that the chosen couldn't (literally) >> >refuse. The bond is just to strong. An example is Vanyel. He >> >definately did not want to be chosen but the thought of hurting 'Fandes was too much for him to go through with refusing (that is > >once he knew that it would hurt her). That was my thought on the matter. >> > >>=20 >> Okay you could refuse. Talia had the choice of whether or not to refuse. >> Queen Selenay said that if she didn't want to be Queen's Own they would= send >> Rolan out again. So with that statement you could if you wanted not take= it >> but with the bond when they choose you most wouldn't. >>=20 >> Aistes > > The Queen also said that no one had ever refused. The is a difference >between given the option to refuse and actually being able to refuse. I >was saying that the chosen couldn't refuse because the bond was to >strong, not because they didn't have the choice. I think that the >inability to refuse is part of what the Companions look for when they >choose a new person. Just my 2=A2 worth. True no one did refuse. There was one other case which was in Sword of Ice where it shows that the lady refuses. Even if she does change her mind she still refused. Plus think about it again being given the choice still means that people could refuse. And the bond has to be physical at the start for it to get stronger. So if you didn't talk to them or go near them then the bond wouldn't be there as much making it easier to refuse. Aistes ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 20:41:30 -0700 From: raven245-+AT+-juno.com (Heidi R Fridriksson) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Question in Arrow's Fall and other things Message-ID: <19970811.212345.3886.1.raven245-+AT+-juno.com> Sorry guys, for the stupid question about Gwena i must have missed that part in WofF (probably due to the fact that it was around 1am.) I can't wait to read all the Velgarth books again because I think there have been alot details I've missed because of staying up to late. just can't put 'em down. Julie: Yes, Selenay is the Queen. I would imagine it was a typo I've noticed quite a few of them in Misty books, especially Arrows. Heidi ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 21:54:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Kris Frye To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Van as an accomplice? Message-ID: On Sun, 10 Aug 1997, Michael A. Keats wrote: > >I have another question about that. Isn't Van actually acting as Tylendel's > >accomplice in the whole thing? > >I mean, he knew 'lendel planned revenge and still he got him the forbidden > >books *and* lent him his strength, without which lendel could not have got > >there to carry out his vengeance in the first place. > >Plus, while lendel had the admittedly feeble excuse of being besides > >himself with pain, Van had no such excuse. > >True, his beloved was suffering, but Van should have known enough about > >justice in Valdemar to know he could go to the heralds and demand their > >justice. > > > While I do agree that you brought up some very valid points, remember also > that in MPawn, Vanyel was > an emotionally abused young man who was only just learning what real love > was all about. He'd also had some very demented ideas of what it means to > be an honourable man driven into him by his father and Jervis. He was > acting on what he thought was sence of justice, nothing else. Remember > that as far as they knew, nobody was doing a damn thing about 'lendles > brothers murder. I haven't precisely been following this whole Vanyel/Tylendel/Morality debate, so sheeps to all if someone else has brought this up, but it seems like Skif's adventures in Hardorn (explained in the second book in the Elsbeth trilogy) might be relevant. In brief, he trusted someone who ended up betraying Skif and either personally torturing and murdering a Hardornian family who had been very close to Skif, or causing it to happen. And Skif repaid the betrayal by hunting down the man and torturing and killing him the same way. While Cymry certainly disapproved, she didn't repudiate Skif and never told anyone of his secret shame (which is was to him once he regained his senses) Of course, Skif didn't kill any innocents.. so maybe this story isn't so relevant to the Van/Lendel discussion, but it certainly does show that the Companions are able to forgive and understand most of their Heralds' worst failings. Perhaps if Tylendel would have targeted only the one or few who actually had to do with the death of his twin, the issue of repudiation might not have come up at all... (and the Van trilogy wouldn't have been as interesting) Anyway, I'm a little tired, and I'm afraid I'm not making too much sense, but I thought I'd throw the issue out on the floor and see if anyone else was interested in the comparison of the situations. .. __________________________________________________________________________ | Kris Frye | "These are not the droids we are looking for." | | kfrye-+AT+-reed.edu | http://www.reed.edu/~kfrye | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 01:59:09 -0400 (EDT) From: RoDeLiRiUm-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: *confused* Message-ID: <970812015908_597427776-+AT+-emout17.mail.aol.com> Wow. . .thank you so much! Finally, someone esle who has no idea what is up with the sheep. Lasaraleen wrote: *LOL* What's with the sheep?? (I'm so befuddled (I love that word) that I don't care if this is very short! And Iw as just contemplating writing the same thing, so I guess it's good that you ddi first. thanx for asking. . .. bright blessing and, um,. slightly confused sheep to everyone, herald ro vethrie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 18:08:31 +0200 From: "Ulf G. Dahlmann" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: *confused* Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970812180738.0b4f10b4-+AT+-hrz1.hrz.th-darmstadt.de> At 07:26 12.08.97 +0100, you wrote: > Wow. . .thank you so much! Finally, someone esle who has no idea what is up >with the sheep. Lasaraleen wrote: > > *LOL* What's with the sheep?? >(I'm so befuddled (I love that word) that I don't care if this is very >short! > > And Iw as just contemplating writing the same thing, so I guess it's good >that you ddi first. > thanx for asking. . .. > > bright blessing and, um,. slightly confused sheep to everyone, > herald ro vethrie > Well, if people would read the FAQ and the Rules of Thumb, there wouldn't be these stupid questions, what's with the sheep, and why not to post chain letters and other crap to the list Ulf, who is getting more and more annoyed ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf aka Vanyel: vanyel-+AT+-compuserve.com valdemar-+AT+-geocities.com vanyel-+AT+-privat.post.de vanyelulf-+AT+-aol.com vanyel-+AT+-cutey.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- http://ulf.base.org http://iglyo.home.ml.org http://pep.base.org http://pepverlag.base.org ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 13:30:07 -0700 From: larsen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Comments on Arrow's Fall Message-ID: <33F0C7CF.7FC8-+AT+-voyager.net> Julie S. Burnham wrote: > > I'm a newbie to the list, and was going to just lurk for a while to > see how things went, but I have a question. On page 111 of AF, the > first full paragraph's second sentence is written, "Only the Queen, > Kyril, and Selenay did not join in the rejoicing." It was my > understanding that Selenay *was* the Queen. Is this just a typo? If > so, does anyone know how it was supposed to be written? > > Julie the Newbie > Holder of the Glasses, Langly Division, LGAB; SSA #1 > "Hey, the walls are padded. Look what I can do!" - Me He he, I never saw that, that is funny. I wonder if Misty knows that there is that kind of typo? Brownhawk Brownhawk's Dark Garden http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dimension/4114/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 17:03:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Ashali9928-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Tylendel's repudiation Message-ID: <970812165817_564101776-+AT+-emout01.mail.aol.com> Well, you can look at the subject either ways, I mean, for instance in MPrice after being raped, Vanyel killed a bunch of people, but no one really considered that bad, right? More than that he tortured them by making them disemboweled themselves. Wasn't there any other choice that Gala could have chosen? I don't believe that if Gala lived 'Lendel couldn't of survived. Besides, Gala suicided because she made her death wish when she repudiated 'Lendel. No Companion or Herald can survive if one or the other died. Couldn't of Gala prevented this by checking in on 'Lendel when he was recovering from shock and found out? Couldn't Vanyel stopped 'Lendel? Everyone is a little guilty, although the majority of that falls on 'Lendel's shoulders. Also, someone up there thought 'Lendel was worthy of his Whites and someone also did down on earth, because they dressed him in Whites when he died. Maybe I am just a weirdo, but a Herald and a Companion are supposed to be partners. 'Lendel and Gala were not really partners because as 'Lendel said himself, because Gala saved him from going mad she was always more than him, and he loved her in a mother-son relationship or a mentor-student relationship. That may have been a weak point in the relationship. Tylendel did do something evil, but you have to make your own opinion on the subject. Savarana Sapphrine ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 17:19:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Ashali9928-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Tylendel's repudiation Message-ID: <970812171800_262391699-+AT+-emout12.mail.aol.com> I keep adding on, but I always think of new things. I don't think Gala's repudiation was a "punishment" and because he was reincarnated doesn't mean he can go on with his normal life. I mean it's like "You got punished, but don't worry, you can just be popped into another body, and not remember yourself, except in dreams, while your lifemate is in throes of agony". I don't really consider it that, it's just something that happened. Officially, Tylendel was supposed to be with Van instead of Stefen (I'm not trying to make a Great Destiny, just saying stuff). I don't think it was his brother dying, it was more of expierencing his death. When something like that happens, you get an immediate and violent reaction. For instance, that happened to Talia, but no magic ghost came to 'Lendel to ease the pain, to make that memory, blurred and one set removed. All Tylendel could remember was that one deathwish, the loss, and the need for revenge. Savarana Sappharine ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 19:46:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Ashali9928-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Kechara Message-ID: <970812194405_-1337450099-+AT+-emout03.mail.aol.com> Kechara means "beloved" or "darling" in Kaled'a'in. There's a variation of it in Shin'a'in. I'm not trying to flame anyone but is it just me or does everyone forget stuff. Maybe it's cuz I have a good memory and I can read Misty books in an hour or two. Savarana Sappharine ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 21:37:23 -0400 (EDT) From: RTeclectic-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: The light show Message-ID: <970812213536_750968799-+AT+-emout09.mail.aol.com> Sorry, really really sorry. peoples sorry about the chain bit too - I got it twice I thought I sent the one without the chain crud but i see that I was wrong really really sorry about that to. I promise I won't do it again Regan( RT) ( who keeps her promises, and tries not to make the same mistake more than once) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 17:49:25 -0700 From: Kilin Angels To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: stuff Message-ID: <33F10495.1E33-+AT+-olypen.com> Heyla all! Shana, the thing in SW refers to the guardsmen's outfits. All right! Someone else who likes Jody Lee! Gwena _was_ groveborn. I don't have any textevd, but I remember Van telling Elspeth that in the FoS. Everyone (except Shana) forgot my birthday.:( (sniff) _I_ haven't forgotten any of the other birthdays this month. Why did you all forget mine? (sniff, sniff) Zhai'helleva, Sorana Shadowcat Knight of Amber and Marigold, soon to be (I hope) Goddess of Flions *************************************************************************What is the dark; shadows around you, why not take heart in the new day? Ever and always. Always and ever. No one can promise a dream for you. Time gave both darkness and dreams to you. --Enya ************************************************************************* ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1299 **********************************