MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1368 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Fluff Stuff and Odd Phobias by dprono-+AT+-planet.eon.net 2) Bye Bye... by tadrith-+AT+-juno.com (Tadrith Skandrakae) 3) Copyrights, RPGs, MOOs, MUDs, ad nauseam by Kenneth Allen Hyde 4) Re: Welcome back Korendil/Companions and MindSpeaking by "Traci Harriman" 5) Re: Copyrights, RPGs, MOOs, MUDs, ad nauseam by MagicCCC 6) Re: Hello every1. by "Traci Harriman" 7) Re: Misty Audio Books? by "Traci Harriman" 8) Re: Vanyel Fan Club by "Traci Harriman" 9) Re: Copyrights, RPGs, MOOs, MUDs, ad nauseam by JBGNY-+AT+-aol.com 10) Re: Copyrights, RPGs, MOOs, MUDs, ad nauseam by Korendil 11) The Vaanyel Fan Club by "Herald Bastian" 12) Re: Villians, Happy Endings, Mindspeech by "Dawn Patrick" 13) Re: Copyrights, RPGs, MOOs, MUDs, ad nauseam by vanyel-+AT+-writeme.com 14) Re: Copyrights, RPGs, MOOs, MUDs, ad nauseam by Kenneth Allen Hyde 15) Gods and other things like that. by Kenneth Allen Hyde 16) Re: Welcome back Korendil/Companions and MindSpeaking by "Traci Harriman" 17) Tarma by Hyllarr-+AT+-aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 19:12:04 -0700 From: dprono-+AT+-planet.eon.net To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Fluff Stuff and Odd Phobias Message-ID: <34496C74.741-+AT+-planet.eon.net> Heyla All! This is cause for a celebration (regarding my initiation into the Fluff Order) *gets up and dances around the room, which causes her bondbird to feel VERY embarassed.* o.k. Ummmm, Sarah, you asked me to take care of the rest of this Order thingie-With the permision of Listmistress Mel, the Council of Mist, and Dave the Master of Fluff, I will initiate people into the soon to be formed (I hope) Order of Fluff. As long as Dave or Sarah heads it. ;) This is an initiation peice I ment to send earlier, but my comp was mean and didnt do it! -+AT+-#$**& Icewind-I beat you! With the abundance of Mercedes Lackey's work out in the real world, various new phobias have sprung up. In an attempt to let the public know that they're out there, I have decided to post the following information to the people who are at the highest risk. This means you! Please read the following, and if you or anyone you know have any of these symptoms, please get help imidiatly! Ma'ar'aphobia - (Ma-ar-a-pho-bia) The fear of seeing Ma'ar, hearing about how demented he is getting, and quaking at the mention of his reincarnations. Cause: Too much Misty! Too much of seeing a 'Bad Guy' over and over and over and over and... * Related to the Energizer Bunny Syndrome. Effect: Screaming "Damn you Ma'ar!" when things dont go the subjects way, burning Black Gryphon, the Last Herald Mage, and the Mage Winds series in hopes of ending Ma'ar for good; Wearing seives on heads to prevent Ma'ar from taking the subject over. Bardophobia - (bard-o-pho-bia) The fear of being written into a truely auful song, and then being unable to torture the Bard over a roasting pit Cause: Too Much Misty! Listening to terrible ballads and wondering if the same fate is in store for you. Effect: Subject becomes a quivering blob of goo when songs such as 'Ice Madien' are brought up. When songs such as 'Ice Madien' are sung, subjuct usually begins to scream "I'M NORMAL IGNORE ME!" and then procedes to do a good impression of jello in an earthquake, and after five minuits or so of this ridiculous behavior, usually collapses. * Sub-group - Leslacophobia (Les-lac-o-pho-bia) where subject goes temporarily insane at the mention of Leslac or his 'songs'. Churchophobia - (Chur-ch-o-pho-bia) The fear of Church conspiracies and the color red. Cause: Too Much Misty! Hearing too much about Church arsons and corrupted preists who happen to wear red. Effect: Subject insists that the 'Church is watching' and blames all acts of arson on Church officials who are tone-deaf. Usually chants "Free-Bards Rule! Churches Drool!" or some variation thereof. Goes into a frenzy at the sight of someone wearing red or anything remotly resembling a robe, and usually attacks the poor unfortunate soul (Little Mermaid, I know!) and afterwards is reduced to flapping the arms wildly, drooling, and singing 'The Scaucy Preist'. Subjects also seem to enjoy poking out their eyes with sticks and then insisting that they lost the eye in some heroic, or demonic, deed. Sheepophobia - (Sheep-o-pho-bia) The fear of flavored sheep. Cause: Too much Misty! Being on Lists like this one. Effect: Hiding under desks at the mention of flavored sheep or Wallace and Grommet's 'A Close Shave'. Red Hazes that cover the subject's eyes at the mention of the wooly things, and subsequent sheep rustling opperations that end up in Candy Coated Sheep which the subject promptly gives away. Subject usually has no memory of what he/she did, and close questioning usually produces another sheep rustling opperation. Subject usually also begins to insert the word 'sheep' into ordinairy conversation, which, surprizingly, dosent produce the mysterious red haze. Further study required. If you see yourself or a friend in any one of the above phobias, GET HELP! (I have too much free time!) :) YKYRTMMLW: You start asking big dogs for stories. You go to horse auctions and insist on only bidding on the white ones, which you claim are abused Companions, or the really ugly ones, which you say are Shin'a'in War Horses in disguise! Ducking the flames! Yvonne Shadowshape bondmate to Chiti (Spotted-Crested Eagle) Goddess (presumptive) of Kelpies, Selkies, and other Water-Borne Appreciator of Penguins Knight of Fluff p.s. OB Misty: Ummmmmmm..... Did anyone notice that on the covers of Oathbound and Oathbreakers that Tarma looks different? (Reaching at straws) :P ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 12:12:30 -0500 From: tadrith-+AT+-juno.com (Tadrith Skandrakae) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Bye Bye... Message-ID: <19971019.121235.11798.0.tadrith-+AT+-juno.com> I really don't have time to read this list anymore.. I might be back in the summer or somthing, but for now I'm too busy. Winged Sheep To All For The Short Post! Wind to thy Wings, -Tadrith ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 13:28:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Kenneth Allen Hyde To: Misty Lackey List Subject: Copyrights, RPGs, MOOs, MUDs, ad nauseam Message-ID: Hi everyone, Well, I am working on an addition to the FAQ which will cover the whole issue of Misty's (and every other author's) copyrights with respect to Fanfic and RPG's etc. But, given that this has come up on the list twice in as many weeks, I thought I would post a few lines on the subject to the list. First, I am not a lawyer, so my take on this subject is not going to cut any ice with the legal authorities. Just thought you should know! However, I am an academic who must deal with intellectual property rights and copyright on a daily basis as part of my work. In self-defence, I have learned as much as I could about this subject and what is an isn't allowed. Okay, on to the subject of fanfic: Fanfic is a violation of 17 U.S.C. 106 which expressly gives the author of a work the exclusive right to create or authorize the creation of derivative works based on their orginal work. Since fan-fic is derivative of Misty's original work, it would be a clear infringement on Misty's copyright unless she has expressly authorized the creation of each particular work. However, Misty has expressly and frequently said that she does not authorize fanfic (in general) and that she will prosecute anyone that she finds writing fanfic. This is her right. BTW, If you are thinking about the "fair use" defense, remember that this will not keep you out of court. "Fair Use" is a legal defense, but it only works *after* you have been taken to court and are on trial. Besides, fanfic would not normally fall under the criteria of the Fair Use clause, which basically applies to the following uses: criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research. If you are interested in a more detailed definition of what exactly does constitute fair use, I recommend going to my links page at "http://www.ling.udel.edu/hyde/pers/bookmarks.html" and following my links on Copyright Issues--one of them will actually take you to US Title 17, the US Copyright laws.) Okay, on to RPGs and MOOs etcetera. Basically, these are all covered by the same basic principle that covered fanfic: they are derivative works based on an original work produced by Misty. She has an exclusive right to create or authorize the creation of any and all derivative works, something she has not done. Now, there is the issue of "Why are people asked not to announce RPGs, MOOs, MUDs, and Fanfic on the list." This is a weird issue, but there are two legal principles that I can think that apply here: criminal solicitation and legal liabililty. The first principle makes it a crime to "solicit" a criminal act (i.e. to ask or encourage another person to perform a criminal act). Since, in some cases, copyright infringement can be considered a criminal act (as opposed to a civil matter), asking or encouraging others to commit such an infringement would also be a crime in areas where criminal solicitation is illegal. The issue of legal liability is a bigger issue on the list, however. This is the principle that someone may be legally liable for the damages caused by a crime or tort that was committed with the use of their property. The best defense against legal liability is to be able to show that you have made a good faith effort to prevent your property from being used in a criminal way and that you have expressly discouraged criminal use of your property. Since the mailing list is run on the computer system that Mel Dymond Harper uses in her normal business as a computing consultant and ISP and she owns the list and the machinery on which it is run, there is every reason to think that Mel or her business could be held legally liable if the mailing list were used to infringe on Misty's copyrights or to solicit works that were infringements on her copyrights. This is a risk under both the US and UK codes, AFAIK. To reduce this risk, all members of the list are told (in a number of documents) that they are not allowed to post or solicit fanfic or RPGs. People who do post such things, or who persist in soliciting them, are removed from the list (on a personal note, I doubt that these people will ever get much sympathy from any real Misty fans, either). Okay, well, that is it for a while. Please remember that, as kewl as you might think fanfic and RPGs are, creating them is illegal and posting them to this list (or posting requests for them) is putting the entire list at risk (and can you imagine how much hate mail someone would receive if it came out that their postings had resulted in the death of the list? *grin*) Sorry if this sounds harsh, but this issue is very important and needed to be clarified. We can argue about whether Misty should allow us to right fanfic as much as we like, but that doesn't change the fact that it and any other type of derivative work is illegal (and changing a few names is not going to get around that fact, btw). So, just say no to illegal activities of this nature, or at least, say no to them on this list. May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd Councilor of Mist Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me //www.ling.udel.edu/hyde/prof/ken.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 14:06:31 PDT From: "Traci Harriman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Welcome back Korendil/Companions and MindSpeaking Message-ID: <19971019210632.17013.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> I have the book.....:It's *me* Bard.: Yfandes stalked stiffle up to him and shoved his sholder w/ her nose.......... (about a paragraph down)... And I can Bespeak anyone i choose to, it's one of the abilities Companions try not to use if there's any way around it.....P298 Mprice >Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 10:48:49 +0100 (BST) >Reply-To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk >From: 95662014 <95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk> >To: harrimant-+AT+-geocities.com >Subject: Welcome back Korendil/Companions and MindSpeaking > >Kori I'm an oldbie once more back on the list. >I've looked at Mats home page and it looks as if you all had a really >cool time at DragonCom. I was up in N.C. at the time and wish I could >have made it down there for it. > >Sorchafyr-+AT+-aol.com wrote:- >> If the reincarnation of Karse's priests (i.e. firecats) can speak to >> everyone, why can't the reincarnation of Valdemar's heralds (i.e. >> companions) speak to everyone also? > >They can. Y'fandes tell Stef this after Van has been taken after the >ambush. Don't have books with me at the moment but something along >the lines of: >It's me Bard, Companions can Mindspeak anyone they chose but we try >not to. [ Very bad paraphrasing] > >************************************************ >Zha'hai'allav'a >Kalen Shena Vuysher'edras >Kal'enedral [OIB](AKA Jason Stokes) >95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk >"If we shadows have offended, think but this and >all is mended. That you have but slumbered here >While these visions did appear". > *Puck, Midsummer Nights Dream* > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 14:05:03 -0700 From: MagicCCC To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Copyrights, RPGs, MOOs, MUDs, ad nauseam Message-ID: <344A75FF.6857D5CB-+AT+-mscomm.com> Interesting post. By its very nature it is saying that everything we do here on the list is illegal. You are saying it is wrong to thing and to imagine and to talk about book issues to others it sillegal as well. If we are allowed in a list serve to discuss lackey novel, why is it illegal to do the very same thing in a chat room? That makes absolutely no sense at all. The copyright laws were created to protect authors not to imprison minds and to eliminate the first amendment to the constitution. There is nothing wrong with chatting about books you like and discussing what you might have changed if you were the author. There is of course something wrong if you make money on it. Authors by their very nature are trying to free your imagination and help you become more creative. People like Jules Verne and HG Wells were directly responsible for much of this century's technology. Do you think they would have sued the scientists for being able to invent something that they only imagined? How hopelessly small minded you all are. I am incredibly sorry for you all, and will not bother you all again. I prefer to soar the heights of what is best in the world, and not explore the depths with those of no imagination or foresight. And by the way, I am a writer myself and have created several role playing games that are in use. Personally, I would be flattered to hear people using pieces of it, not screaming copyright infringement at all. Maybe if you all used your imaginations for good instead of petty bickering it might do better. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 14:35:22 PDT From: "Traci Harriman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Hello every1. Message-ID: <19971019213523.5219.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> Yes i got depressed when Van just gave up. in fact i cried and everytime i think of that book i cry. if you havent figured it out yet i really liked Van and it just makes me sad. :( Ta Ta Taurus! traci enesta nightingale stormcloud harriman ashkevron tracienesta-+AT+-hotmail.com >Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 02:39:29 +0100 (BST) >Reply-To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk >From: Beth Allan >To: tracienesta-+AT+-hotmail.com >Subject: Hello every1. > >Hello! I just thought I'd introduce myself, before I started posting. = >I just subscribed to the digest, and here's my info: >My name is Taurus, I am 16 years old, I'm a female and I live in Ont., = >Canada. I have read all the Heralds Of Valdemar books, except The = >Oathbound and The Oathbreakers. I have one question for all of you, = >though... >Did any of you get depressed after reading Magic's Price? Not suicidaly = >depressed, but just sad thinking about what Vanyel gave up?? Well, = >that's it for this post! Bye! >Taurus > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 14:38:28 PDT From: "Traci Harriman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Misty Audio Books? Message-ID: <19971019213828.13325.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> This isn't really a reply but if any one knows where 2 find them let me no 2! i think firebird.....but i dunno. please send me this 2! Traci Harriman tracienesta-+AT+-hotmail.com >Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 05:02:24 +0100 (BST) >Reply-To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk >From: "Michael Stanaland, Jr." >To: tracienesta-+AT+-hotmail.com >Subject: Misty Audio Books? > >Ok, so this is my first time ever posting a message here, so forgive me >if I mess up! :-) >Anyway, I was wondering if anyone knew of a place where I can get any of >the Mercedes Lacky books on audio tape? I really enjoy reading them, but >I am not as fast a reader as I like to be, and don't really have the >time anyway. But I have plenty of time to listen to them. Any assistance >anyone could give me with this, would be very much appreciated. >Oh, and the same goes for MZB books also. > >Thanks, >Michael > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 14:42:13 PDT From: "Traci Harriman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Vanyel Fan Club Message-ID: <19971019214214.25244.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> you're confusing me! i already joined the VFC but a mailing list?!?!?!? count me in! tracienesta-+AT+-hotmail.com >Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 08:00:23 +0100 (BST) >Reply-To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk >From: "Herald Bastian" >To: harrimant-+AT+-geocities.com >Subject: Vanyel Fan Club > >Heyla, everyone! > >I'm just letting you all know that the Vanyel Fan Club is officially >beginning soon, so if you'd like to join, please e-mail with such a >statement. Also mention whether or not you'd like to join the Vanyel Fan >Club Mailing List. I hope to hear from you . . . > >Zha'hai'allav'a, te'sorthene! > > > >Herald Bastian >http://www.geocities.com/area51/lair/9963 > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 18:00:32 -0400 (EDT) From: JBGNY-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Copyrights, RPGs, MOOs, MUDs, ad nauseam Message-ID: <971019175653_-790724585-+AT+-emout08.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 10/19/97 5:35:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, MagicCCC write: > > Interesting post. By its very nature it is saying that everything we do > here on the list is illegal. You are saying it is wrong to thing and to > imagine and to talk about book issues to others it sillegal as well You really seem to grasp the concept and yet miss the point. A discussion list, like a book club is a whole different animal from taking a writers creation and then extrapolating on it to create an "inspired" piece which is rooted in someone else's hard work. Although you would be flattered, many authors (like Misty) feel that they have been violated. You can "soar" with your imagination and your own creations, and that's what the laws allow you to do. The law also protects other writers to control their works. Im sorry you felt the need to insult so many people by name calling them "narrow-minded". Your comparison to H.G. Wells' idea's, and the actual creation of those ideas by scientists is a true statement -- although in this context it is an apples to oranges comparison. Nor, would I think, would misty mind if an actually companion type horse came to be ( lets say, through genetic cloning). I do think H.G. Wells would mind if someone (while he was alive) wrote a sequel to the War of the Worlds. That's the point. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 18:17:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Korendil To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Copyrights, RPGs, MOOs, MUDs, ad nauseam Message-ID: >Interesting post. By its very nature it is saying that everything we do >here on the list is illegal. You are saying it is wrong to thing and to >imagine and to talk about book issues to others it sillegal as well. If >we are allowed in a list serve to discuss lackey novel, why is it >illegal to do the very same thing in a chat room? That makes absolutely >no sense at all. > It makes perfect sense if you paid *any* sense at all to what Ken said. 'What we do on the list' has NOTHING to do with fanfict, or with online gaming. This list falls under the very categories that Ken cited for fair use (and one he didn't, which I'm 75% sure is also fair use, that being parody): >criticism, comment, news >reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), >scholarship, or research. And a chatroom is *not* a Mud or a Moo or a Mush or whatnot. A chatroom, or a channel, or any other realtime medium *can* be used for gaming. On the other hand, the normal Misty-related channels (like K'Valdemar) don't. MU*s are just specialized environments for online-gaming. And they are *not* chat rooms. (Many an-IRCer would be offended at the mere linking of the two temrs;>). >The copyright laws were created to protect authors not to imprison minds >and to eliminate the first amendment to the constitution. > Fan-fict, CC, *does* hurt the author. As does on-line gaming. Fan-fict can lead to nasty lawsuits, as can gaming. >There is nothing wrong with chatting about books you like and discussing >what you might have changed if you were the author. Please, *please* show me where Ken said that was prohibited. Last time I checked that was criticism and comment. And only a foolish lawyer would go after something easily defended in court. > There is of course >something wrong if you make money on it. Authors by their very nature >are trying to free your imagination and help you become more creative. Oh *blah*. That's just a fringe benefit of earning money. It's a job like anything else, and writers generally do it for several reasons. Yes, including freeing your imagination, but paying the bills and not working in a dead-end job figure in there too. >People like Jules Verne and HG Wells were directly responsible for much >of this century's technology. Indirectly. Saying otherwise is a major disgrace to the scientists who did the hard work. Verne and Wells and Rodenberry might have seen these things, but they had nothing to do with their creation in a direct sense. NASA was probably thinking more about beating those "Red *-+AT+-!*& Commies" to the moon more than "Ooh! Isn't it just WONDERFUL that we're realizing Verne's dreams?"....and the link between Classic Trek communicators and cel phones wasn't seen right from the start. Do you think they would have sued the >scientists for being able to invent something that they only imagined? > They wouldn't have had much of a courtcase. OTOH, that's just *slightly* different from taking someone's work, and using it to your own ends. Comparing NASA to fan-fict writers is forgetting the fact that NASA made something through their own work, while fan-fict is taking a sh*tload of work on the author's part and using that as a frame for stories. Fan-fict writers aren't genetically engineering kyree, and NASA didn't just write more stories about the moon. >How hopelessly small minded you all are. We're small-minded because we like to protect the livlihood of one of our favorite authors (Well, and because Misty has the Demon Lawyers from Hell)?! >I am incredibly sorry for you >all, and will not bother you all again. I truly can't say I mind *that*. >I prefer to soar the heights of >what is best in the world, and not explore the depths with those of no >imagination or foresight. Oh, trust me, copyright laws are *not* one of our favorite issues. Only comes around majorly once or twice a year, and it's always a groan period. And...strange...but I thought depth was a *good* thing in writing. And the depths of the the world are quite interesting--far more than the stratosphere, imo.;> > >And by the way, I am a writer myself and have created several role >playing games that are in use. Great. I'm happy for you. Are these commercial? Is your employment dependent on these games? Could you subsist without the royalties from them? >Personally, I would be flattered to hear >people using pieces of it, not screaming copyright infringement at all. Great. You're not misty or most of the other authors out there. Only a small percentage don't care, and generally that's because they've already amassed a huge amount of money from writing (MZB), or are dead (Zelazny). In any case, I bet you'd be singing a different tune when you start getting into 5 year court battles over the legality of writing a story with a similar plot to a seven year old piece of fanfict, or can't sell a computer game version because there are so many MUDs. >Maybe if you all used your imaginations for good instead of petty >bickering it might do better. Strange, you seem to be involved in the petty bickering yourself--and I have to say that this is an *extremely serious* issue. We're talking thousands and thousands of dollars here. ________________________KORENDIL-+AT+-ICUBED.NET________________________ Korendil, Knight of Amber & Marigold, One in Black, God of Night and All Things Nocturnal, (Pledged) Champion (of Lady Ele), Jester and Party Coordinator of the Clan of the Pink Wand, Terminally Cute Elfin Warrior, Fairy Godson of the Lilac Fairy, Master of Dreams, Asker Of Strange Questions To Misty, _Bower Inquirer_ Reporter. ___________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 15:21:57 PDT From: "Herald Bastian" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: The Vaanyel Fan Club Message-ID: <199710192221.PAA08583-+AT+-f85.hotmail.com> Heyla, everyone! (Sorry it took me so long to respond, but club bussiness is keeping me away from the pleasures of e-mail.) >The person starting the Vanyel Fan Club should know that one already >exists, and has for years now, but nothing has happened with it in >ages. This club is one in the same. >They were gonna, iirc, make a t-shirt, and then they disappeared. Um-hm. I inherited it. >I think I was a member, actually. If you wish, you can be a member still. To further explain: the club history can be found on the Q&A section of the Vanyel Fan Club Website (listed below), explaining the origin of the club. I hope this clears up any confusion on anyone's part . . . Herald Bastian (President of the Vanyel Fan Club) http://www.geocities.com/area51/lair/9963 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 23:37:56 +0100 From: "Dawn Patrick" To: Subject: Re: Villians, Happy Endings, Mindspeech Message-ID: Comments on Villians : Just thought I'd throw my tuppence in over this villian issue (by the way I'm sorry if I'm repeating anything that has been said by anyone else but I've been ill then away and have MASSES of mail to look through so am doing it in stages). Personally I'd like to see villians you could have some sympathy with. I think it is quite false to have "good guys" & "bad guys" all the time. Most people are a complex web of good and bad motives and and to have characters where the readers sympathies vary between them and where the reader is not too sure of who is right and who is wrong is much more real and interesting. Misty does this occasionally to some extent, when Karal was first travelling into Valdemar, for example, and finding his traditional enemies were not what he believed, and you saw the motivation of Tremaine even when he was acting badly you still had sympathy, and even Melles was not portrayed as 100% villian. Personally I'd like to see some stories of the Karsite war in Vanyel's time from the Karsite point of view. I think that would be quite challenging to read! Comments on Happy Endings : I agree with the comments of several people that the happy ending stuff can get a bit waring. Although with the Arrows & Winds & Storms series, because of their close continuation, the endings were not precisely "and they all lived happily ever after. The end." there is still the sickening regularity that everyone gets coupled up. As a single person (and glad of it - most of the time!) I resent the implication that no-one is complete unless they have a partner. I have to say, as far as endings go, I prefer to have at least some of the main characters retaining their single status. Quick comment on the question : Can a person with mindspeech make someone else without the gift hear it? Well I think it depends on the strength of that person's mindspeech gift. A person (or creature) with a very strong mindspeech gift could make someone without any gift hear them, but I would think it would involve more effort. Especially since using a gift is very tiring anyway. This would also suggest that not all companions have the same ability at mindspeech. In the Magic series (I forget which book) when Vanyel was rescuing the young prince whatshisname (my sievelike memory strikes again - I'm surprised I actually remembered Vanyel's name) the Herald on duty to that court couldn't hear his companion even though she was really stressed. This would suggest that that particular companion hadn't got enough of a gift to break through the fact that he didn't have it. If that makes sense. Sorry if this is just a lot of meaningless babble (I've just got in from a 3 hour journey that should have taken half that time 'cos the public transport system is so messed up) my brain is a little frazzled. Dawn ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 17:37:35 -0500 From: vanyel-+AT+-writeme.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Copyrights, RPGs, MOOs, MUDs, ad nauseam Message-ID: <344A8BAE.206E-+AT+-writeme.com> JBGNY-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 10/19/97 5:35:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, MagicCCC write: > > > > > Interesting post. By its very nature it is saying that everything we do > > here on the list is illegal. You are saying it is wrong to thing and to > > imagine and to talk about book issues to others it sillegal as well > > You really seem to grasp the concept and yet miss the point. A discussion > list, like a book club is a whole different animal from taking a writers > creation and then extrapolating on it to create an "inspired" piece which is > rooted in someone else's hard work. Although you would be flattered, many > authors (like Misty) feel that they have been violated. You can "soar" with > your imagination and your own creations, and that's what the laws allow you > to do. The law also protects other writers to control their works. Im sorry > you felt the need to insult so many people by name calling them > "narrow-minded". > > Your comparison to H.G. Wells' idea's, and the actual creation of those ideas > by scientists is a true statement -- although in this context it is an > apples to oranges comparison. Nor, would I think, would misty mind if an > actually companion type horse came to be ( lets say, through genetic > cloning). I do think H.G. Wells would mind if someone (while he was alive) > wrote a sequel to the War of the Worlds. That's the point. you also make a faulted analogy...fanfiction is not a sequel...and when posted on the internet not making anyone any money.Eventually misty's copywrites will expire and her work become public domain...maybe not for a long while but eventually. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 19:44:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Kenneth Allen Hyde To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Copyrights, RPGs, MOOs, MUDs, ad nauseam Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Oct 1997 vanyel-+AT+-writeme.com wrote: > you also make a faulted analogy...fanfiction is not a sequel...and when > posted on the internet not making anyone any money. Hmmm (see Deniz, I am still avoiding *that* word!), well, actually fan-fict does count as a sequel, if you don't have a requirement that sequels be written by the same person as the original work. A sequel is a piece of work which is published subsequent to the publication of another work and which builds on or "follows" up on the previous work (hence, "sequel" from the latin root for "to follow"). As for the issue of whether the fan-fic is making anyone money or not, that is not really germaine to the issue. One of the most persistent fallacies about copyright is that it is about profit (and who can and cannot make a profit). This just is not true. Sentencing, after you are convicted of copyright infringement may take such things into account, but the actual crime doesn't. Technically, writing fanfic and not showing it to anyone is an infringement and an illegal act (although, quite frankly, how anyone would ever know and why anyone would bother to prosecute if they did find out is beyond me!). BTW, to all those who read doodit's (you know, the one with CCC at the end of the name) post, I want to stress that commentary, criticism, etc. are all encouraged on this list. They are perfectly legal examples of Fair Use and are the purpose of this list. Indeed, Fair Use allows you to legally quote any of Misty's works in the course of a commentary or criticism (how did you think that English majors get away with it? *grin*). My post was not intended to stifle legitimate discussion of Misty or her works, but rather to head off any legal unpleasantness that might arise from the posting of innapropriate messages. (on a totally personal note, I would also like to say that people who argue vehemently that copyrights are "wrong" and that everyone should be able to use an author's original creations as the basis for their own work make me nervous. I can't help but suspect that these same people may have a similarly cavalier attitude towards other property rights (such as the right to control who does and does not take your car for a midnight spin). This is just me, though, and should not be construed as representing any other person or legal entity's position.) > Eventually misty's copywrites will expire and her work become public > domain...maybe not for a long while but eventually. This is true. 50 years after she dies, her works will enter the public domain, barring any exceptional circumstances. The younger members of this list may actually live to see that day. Of course, the fact that Misty will have been dead for 50years and will not have been writing anything during that time (again barring any really exceptional circumstances) makes me think that wishing for the day to arrive may not be a good idea on this list (we are all Misty fans, after all *grin*). May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd Councilor of Mist Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me //www.ling.udel.edu/hyde/prof/ken.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 20:12:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Kenneth Allen Hyde To: Ladies of the Pink Wand -- The Bower: ; Subject: Gods and other things like that. Message-ID: Hmmm. Well, this is just a quick bit of fluff to let y'all know that I have now set up a page with the following URL which lists the Gods and Goddesses of the Pantheon of Modern Gods. The URL is: http://www.ling.udel.edu/hyde/pers/misty/gods.html Check it out and let me know if you think someone should be on it who isn't (especially if you are that person). BTW, I will probably be doing the namings on the page, rather than on this list from now on, and I will just post a quick note to the list whenever I have added a few postings. May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd Councilor of Mist Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me //www.ling.udel.edu/hyde/prof/ken.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 17:20:21 PDT From: "Traci Harriman" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Welcome back Korendil/Companions and MindSpeaking Message-ID: <19971020002022.4508.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> >Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 22:31:23 +0100 (BST) >Reply-To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk >From: "Traci Harriman" >To: tracienesta-+AT+-hotmail.com >Subject: Re: Welcome back Korendil/Companions and MindSpeaking > >I have the book.....:It's *me* Bard.: Yfandes stalked straight up to him >and shoved his sholder w/ her nose.......... (about a paragraph down)... >And I can Bespeak anyone i choose to, it's one of the abilities >Companions try not to use if there's any way around it.....P298 Mprice > >>Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 10:48:49 +0100 (BST) >>Reply-To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk >>From: 95662014 <95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk> >>To: harrimant-+AT+-geocities.com >>Subject: Welcome back Korendil/Companions and MindSpeaking >> >>Kori I'm an oldbie once more back on the list. >>I've looked at Mats home page and it looks as if you all had a really >>cool time at DragonCom. I was up in N.C. at the time and wish I could >>have made it down there for it. >> >>Sorchafyr-+AT+-aol.com wrote:- >>> If the reincarnation of Karse's priests (i.e. firecats) can speak to >>> everyone, why can't the reincarnation of Valdemar's heralds (i.e. >>> companions) speak to everyone also? >> >>They can. Y'fandes tell Stef this after Van has been taken after the >>ambush. Don't have books with me at the moment but something along >>the lines of: >>It's me Bard, Companions can Mindspeak anyone they chose but we try >>not to. [ Very bad paraphrasing] >> >>************************************************ >>Zha'hai'allav'a >>Kalen Shena Vuysher'edras >>Kal'enedral [OIB](AKA Jason Stokes) >>95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk >>"If we shadows have offended, think but this and >>all is mended. That you have but slumbered here >>While these visions did appear". >> *Puck, Midsummer Nights Dream* >> > > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 20:20:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Hyllarr-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Tarma Message-ID: <971019201801_1690026401-+AT+-emout07.mail.aol.com> Heyla! Does anyone know how old Tarma is in the OathBound duelagies? My guess is around 25, but I'm not sure. Anyone know and/or have supporting info? Thanks! Amy ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1368 **********************************