MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1412 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Crying by RPierce137-+AT+-aol.com 2) Re: Van not getting Chosen by RPierce137-+AT+-aol.com 3) Re: Van being chosen by GrobuHit-+AT+-t-online.de (M. Grob u. S. Hitzler) 4) Re: Jisa as Queen by "Sean Talbot" 5) Re: Talia? by "Sean Talbot" 6) Re: Van being chosen by Stasia 7) Re: Vanyel being Chosen by "Jeff Aguiar" 8) Re: Talia? by "Brian Bennett" 9) Re: Vanyel being Chosen by "K.S." 10) Re: Van not getting Chosen by "K.S." 11) Re:Vrondi by "K.S." 12) Re: Vanyel by "K.S." 13) Re: Companions by "K.S." 14) Re: Talia? by "K.S." 15) mage-born children after Van's time by "K.S." 16) Re: Crying by John Gold 17) Re: Question - Music by Riyan699-+AT+-aol.com 18) Re: Crying by Heather Shannon 19) Re: Crying by Jennie Specie 20) Re: Companions by Heather Shannon 21) Re: Van not getting Chosen by tigger-+AT+-deskmedia.com 22) Re: mage-born children after Van's time by "H. Torrance Griffin" 23) Re: Question- Music by "kerowyn" 24) Re: Question / Groveborn / WHAT!!! by Melanie_M_Harris/Logistics/AU-+AT+-stratlog.fe.defence.gov.au 25) Re: withen by "K.S." 26) Re: Question / Groveborn / WHAT!!! by "K.S." 27) RE: Vrondi by Beth Allan ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 04:07:16 -0500 (EST) From: RPierce137-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Crying Message-ID: <971202040715_530046133-+AT+-mrin45.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-12-01 05:24:54 EST, you write: << Anyone have any stories, crying, getting excited and yelling (which I have also done in private), or anything else related? >> Whenever a new Robert Jordan book is out, you're bound to catch me at work reading, and moaning, yelling, cursing, cooing, or crying...depending on what's called for. Misty did this to me through the Winds trilogy, but nothing since then has sone it for me. McCaffrey used to as well. Still does with some of the non-Pern stuff. Steven Brust does it, but it's mostly laughter. Anyone else? Robert ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 04:09:54 -0500 (EST) From: RPierce137-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Van not getting Chosen Message-ID: <971202040954_1906104501-+AT+-mrin40.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-12-01 06:45:00 EST, Angie mindmate to Raul writes: << Van did have foresight didn't he? Some Heralds had less than he did, yet they were Chosen. >> Who? Van had one instance of foresight. What Herald has lees than this? Robert ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:41:03 +0100 From: GrobuHit-+AT+-t-online.de (M. Grob u. S. Hitzler) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Van being chosen Message-ID: Heyla listsibs, Here is my list of answers and comments: >Personally, I believe that if Tylendel hadn't been repudiated, and hadn't >died, Vanyel still wouldn't have been chosen, because Tylendel would have >been able to do the work--becoming the last Herald Mage. And Vanyel would >have been the equivalent of Stefen. I don't agree. I don't think that 'Lendel would have become the last Herald Mage because he just didn't have the same potential as Vanyel. Remember Van was the strongest Herald Mage ever for when his channels were blasted open he had all the gifts. Any other HM had one or two gifts but not all of them. I agree with Dreamdancer's opinion that Tylendel would have drawn on Van's potential and have blasted him open during some emergency. What a strong couple they would have made! I guess together they could have destroyed Leareth with one of them surviving. Just think of it, if Stef had been Tylendel! Valdemar would still have had a Herald Mage who could remove the spell nullifier and train mage-gifted kids. >.... why did he set the magic nullifier spell? If he >hadn't, as children began being born with mage-gift again,now that >Leareth wasn't killing them all off as children. They most >likely would have started showing up in Haven and at least being >trained in Mind-gifts like Elspeth was, or as White-winds mages >came through, they could have been identified and trained by them. >Viola, they would have had Herald-mages again. This raises another question: Why weren't (aren't) the companions able to train heralds-to-be with mage gifts? >if you had to pick an actor to portray Van, who would it be? Well, apart from the fact that I don't like good (no, make that excellent) books made into films I always thought that Van looks like Michael Praed (that's the one who played Robin the Hooded Man and I think he also had a role in Dynasty. gosh, it's all been a while). >How bout the other characters? In my imagination, Stef always looked like my boyfriend whose name is Stef and who is the best looking bloke I ever met. Any other one, I don't know. Most of them are like people in a dream: you don't see their face as it is in real life but you know who they are for their aura (or whatever you may call it). Re: Crying in inappropriate place I often cry over books or laugh out loud or offer my advice in any situation. Luckily I only read such books at home where there is only Stef (my boyfriend) and he is a very caring companion (can a human being be a companion?). In public I only read non-fiction books. They might bore me to death but they don't affect me emotionally. Zhai'helleva Shantaya Autumnleaf Unbonded ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 04:48:57 PST From: "Sean Talbot" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Jisa as Queen Message-ID: <19971202124857.17154.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> >From mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Tue Nov 25 11:58:24 1997 >Received: from vanyel (localhost [127.0.0.1]) > by vanyel.herald.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA03541 > for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 17:05:44 GMT >Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 17:05:44 GMT >Message-Id: >Errors-To: lackey-owner-+AT+-herald.co.uk >Reply-To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk >Originator: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk >Sender: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk >Precedence: bulk >From: "K.S." >To: kesta-+AT+-hotmail.com >Subject: Re: Jisa as Queen >X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas >X-Comment: Mercedes Lackey Mailing List >In-Reply-To: <19971125025502.675.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> > > >> This is a silly question, but did Jisa ever become Queen? I mean she was >> lifebonded to Trev and married to him to boot. he became king did she >> become queen? Ive been meaning to ask that for a while but i just kept > >I have been wondering that too. It seems to me a really good story >line. I would like to know what happens after Van dies, what all Stef >does etc., besides, there is a gap of a couple of centuries(?) after >Magic's P books and Queen books. Any thoughts? > Jisa would have become Queen or the title they used is Co-ruler or consort as they did with Daren. I would also like to see them right more on the time just after Vanyel to see if they have any different ways of thinking mindmagic through Wind to Thy Wings From the Avatar of Kal'e'nal Lightwing ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 04:51:12 PST From: "Sean Talbot" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Talia? Message-ID: <19971202125113.29435.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> >From mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Thu Nov 27 20:14:44 1997 >Received: from vanyel (localhost [127.0.0.1]) > by vanyel.herald.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id EAA17581 > for ; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 04:15:13 GMT >Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 04:15:13 GMT >Message-Id: >Errors-To: lackey-owner-+AT+-herald.co.uk >Reply-To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk >Originator: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk >Sender: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk >Precedence: bulk >From: "Bradley H. Martin" >To: kesta-+AT+-hotmail.com >Subject: Talia? >X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas >X-Comment: Mercedes Lackey Mailing List >MIME-Version: 1.0 > >Hi everyone, it's _______ de-lurking for a really short question. When did >Talia try to commit suicide? >Happy Thanksgiving to all. _________ > > Talia in what I remember never tried to commit suicide. The only times where she nearly died were in the river in Arrows of the Queen which wasn't suicide but attempted murder and in Arrows Fall at the hands of Ancar. Those are the only times that she came near dying. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 10:47:10 -0500 From: Stasia To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Van being chosen Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19971202104710.006a0d9c-+AT+-mail.gte.net> At 10:54 AM 12/2/97 GMT, Shantaya Autumnleaf wrote: >This raises another question: Why weren't (aren't) the companions able to train >heralds-to-be with mage gifts? I think it's because Companions don't interfere with the Heralds unless the need is great. There really wasn't a great need for Herald-Mages from Vanyel's time until Ancar came into power At the point Herald-Mages were needed again, Gwena, another grove-born was sent to help Elspeth along the way Also, this was the time many, if not all, of the Herald's and Herald-Mages from Van's time were reincarnated as Companions. That is the time they could and would be of the most help to Valdemar. Wind to thy Wings, Amber ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 11:50:20 EST From: "Jeff Aguiar" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Vanyel being Chosen Message-ID: <19971202165021.4028.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> I think that there is more to Foresight than having dreams about the future. The Gift of Foresight is much more powerful than the aforementioned random moments in life. Selenay, in the battle at the Border in Arrow's Fall, uses her Gift. Selenay has the Gift of Foresight, and, while I will admit that dreams are very powerful and can sometimes be insight into the future, the way she uses it illustrates what I consider to be the reason that there are Heralds around with Foresight. Her Foresight is used to advance troops and flank the enemy and see possible outs in terrible situations. With Foresight, one is able to manipulate situations around them to produce the best possible result and Vanyel's dreams just do not seem to be enough Talent to be Chosen... I have dreams that not only reflect what is in the more subtle areas of my mind, but also tell snippets of the future, very much like Vanyel. Unfortunately, I do not think that, if I were in Valdemar, I would be Chosen merely for that fact. If anything I feel that it would need to be a combination of things and circumstances that would get me Chosen. Think about it---a Herald that needs to sleep in order to use his Gift of Foresight wouldn't be all THAT useful. What about circuits and field trials. As much as a lot of Valdemarans respect Heralds, I don't think a mob in full cry, about to murder someone because they feel he's molested a child (similar to Arrow's Flight), would be all that charitable towards a Herald that says, "Wait a minute...Can you wait until tomorrow? I have to sleep on this." Companions Choose because their Chosen will contribute to the welfare of Valdemar. Even 'Lendel, as mentioned later in the trilogy, contributed to Valdemar's welfare (Vanyel), and he wasn't even a Herald. What would Vanyel have contributed if he were Chosen BEFORE 'Lendel's death? The fact is, he wouldn't have been able to contribute anything. Don't get me wrong, Vanyel, of all of Misty's characters, even SF/F's characters, is my absolute, no if's and's or but's, favorite character, but I do not believe that the condition he was in before 'Lendel died, or even the condition he could have been in after slowly gaining a sense of self with 'Lendel, was not conducive to Valdemar's needs during that time. And who says that anything could have happened in the three years before he turned eighteen...Things happen, things change...Maybe he would have been Chosen if 'Lendel hadn't died, but I don't understand why...It doesn't seem like Van would contribute much to Valdemar. I feel I am done with my diatribe...I thank any who read this for entertaining my thoughts... Zhai'helleva, Heartspring ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 12:09:11 -0500 From: "Brian Bennett" To: Subject: Re: Talia? Message-ID: <19971202171137.AAA369-+AT+-BrianBennett> Sean Talbot said: ---------- > Talia in what I remember never tried to commit suicide. The only times > where she nearly died were in the river in Arrows of the Queen which > wasn't suicide but attempted murder and in Arrows Fall at the hands of > Ancar. Those are the only times that she came near dying. On page 199-201 of Arrows Fall it describes how after being tortured by Ancar and Hulda, Talia takes out a bottle of argonel and drinks the whole thing. Since argonel is earlier described as a very powerful pain killer I think that qualifies as a suicide attempt. ShadowWolf, God of Stupid Chess Moves "Checkmate" -- HAL -- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:40:11 -0800 (PST) From: "K.S." To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Vanyel being Chosen Message-ID: Here's my two cents. I think that 'Lendel was destined to die and Van to be a Herald because if he hadn't, then Valdemar would've gotten trampled by psycho-man. It seems to me that whomever is in charge of sending the companions, both grove born and other, has too much stake in the success of Valdemar to let it all go to pot. Besides, when you think about it in cause and effect, it all sorta makes sense. 'Lendel showed Van how to love, Lendel die, 'Fandes comes along etc. etc., any thoughts? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:40:53 -0800 (PST) From: "K.S." To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Van not getting Chosen Message-ID: > >Now for my question: when Talia follows Elspeth outside to the > > an explanation for the Grove-born Companions? They Gate to the Grove?< > Hmm, that's a possible explanation you know! But aren't they spirit-born or > something? How the hell do they Gate there? > First of all, what exactly is a Grove Born companion? (I know what it is technically, but where does the spirit come from?) THere are a few options here, depending on individual beliefs. Does something create a spirit, does it just float around? (This is dangerous ground here, I don't want to start a religious war or something. Thinking about stuff like this makes my head hurt anyway:>) As far as the whole gating thing, maybe spirits are hanging around the companions field, just waiting for a "body" to be gated in? I think it's a definate possibility, I mean, it's gonna take some doing to move around something as large and powerful as a companion. well, that's all! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:48:13 -0800 (PST) From: "K.S." To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re:Vrondi Message-ID: > > Also if Van knew what the Vrondi were and could see them, why would they > drive other mages crazy? Couldn't they just see them too? The > vrondi were just air elementals, any elementalist mage or any mage > with mage-sight, should have been able to see them and then > would just be able to either banish them or ignore them > ************************ I seem to remember somewhere that Van decided to use the Vrondi for the spell specifically because he believed that no-one outside of Valdemar knew of their existence. IMHO I think that if the mage was good/smart enough he/she would figure out what was going on. But I suppose that would only count if they were familiar with elements and stuff. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:50:51 -0800 (PST) From: "K.S." To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Vanyel Message-ID: Johnny Depp? (kidding!!) :) seriously, I think Meryl Streep could do a good someone, I haven't figured out who, but she is an incredibly talented actress... On Tue, 2 Dec 1997 Riyan699-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > if you had to pick an actor to portray Van, who would it be? > How bout the other characters? > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:58:25 -0800 (PST) From: "K.S." To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Companions Message-ID: > I beg to differ--as you say, Rolan is Groveborn. However, his bond with > Talia is one of the strongest I've ever read of despite Talia's lack of > MindSpeech. After all, she couldn't block Rolan out, while all the other > Heralds, even with a strong bond didn't have a problem sheilding their > Companion's intimacies out of their minds. I think that Gwena and Elspeth I think that the strenght of the bond has to do with the necessity of the bond. Talia had to have a stong bond, Jisa, well, not so much. I'd say Van had to have a fairly strong one. Speaking of reincarnation, I was curious if Misty flubbed on this one line, or if the idea hadn't hit her yet. Van is talking with Fandes, and he said something, and her reply was (to the effect of) "You humans..." and then Van realized that the big diff between them was that he was a human and she wasn't. But if she is reincarnated, then why did she say that? Anyone getting this here, it doesn't make much sense to me... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:03:57 -0800 (PST) From: "K.S." To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Talia? Message-ID: But remember, the peddler that gave it to her assured her that there was enough in the bottle to kill her. And she describes seeing the havens but not being able to get in. On Tue, 2 Dec 1997, Brian Bennett wrote: > Sean Talbot said: > ---------- > > Talia in what I remember never tried to commit suicide. The only times > > where she nearly died were in the river in Arrows of the Queen which > > wasn't suicide but attempted murder and in Arrows Fall at the hands of > > Ancar. Those are the only times that she came near dying. > > On page 199-201 of Arrows Fall it describes how after being tortured by > Ancar and Hulda, Talia takes out a bottle of argonel and drinks the whole > thing. Since argonel is earlier described as a very powerful pain killer I > think that qualifies as a suicide attempt. > > ShadowWolf, God of Stupid Chess Moves > "Checkmate" -- HAL -- > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 10:36:25 -0800 (PST) From: "K.S." To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: mage-born children after Van's time Message-ID: Hmm..just had a thought. We know the kind of havoc an untrained mage can cause. So what happened to all the children that were born with the gift after Van's death? Of course there was no-one to train them, did they leave Valdemar? I was thinking that maybe like how heralds-to-be find themselves in Haven, maybe mages-to-be find themselves out of country where they can get some training. And are all Valdemarians with mind magic _good_? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 13:40:06 -0500 (EST) From: John Gold To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Crying Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Dec 1997 RPierce137-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 97-12-01 05:24:54 EST, you write: > > << Anyone have any stories, crying, getting excited and yelling (which I have > also done in private), or anything else related? > >> > Whenever a new Robert Jordan book is out, you're bound to catch me at > work reading, and moaning, yelling, cursing, cooing, or crying...depending on > what's called for. Misty did this to me through the Winds trilogy, but > nothing since then has sone it for me. McCaffrey used to as well. Still > does with some of the non-Pern stuff. Steven Brust does it, but it's mostly > laughter. Anyone else? > > Robert > As far as McCaffrey, she used to do some excellent work, but hasn't put anything out in years that I would concider worth-while. I'm not too familiar with Jordans work, But... Brust is one of the finest! His Taltos series is fantastically funny, especially some of the extremely dry wit that passes between himself and his jhereg, or between Sethra and Morrolan. The most touching books for myself have been the entire Chronicles of Narnia (given a choice, I'd be living there), and Time Enough for Love by Robert Heinlein (there is the character I'd like to think I've patterned my life after). *** I know that there is a strange dychotomy (sp?) between these books, but there you have it. O.B.Misty: Anyone every wonder about the strange acceptance of Vanyalby Withen in the last book? I mean, for years Withen had feared that someone would find out about his son's prefernces, and on his last visit to his home he suddenly rolls out the red carpet ( the sleeping arrangements vis-a-vis Him and Stef). Just seemed a little sudden to me. Lafrita thae, Papa Bear*** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:04:13 -0500 (EST) From: Riyan699-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Question - Music Message-ID: <971202140413_1373596861-+AT+-mrin43.mail.aol.com> I liked the Shadowstalker album too. Just one thing- did anyone else who heard it find Magic's Price a little too upbeat to be about Van's last battle? I liked most of the songs, except the synthesized trumpet on Herald's Creed (or whatever it is) was really annoying. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:34:32 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: Heather Shannon To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Crying Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:27:26 GMT Sorchafyr-+AT+-aol.com wrote: SNIP > Anyone have any stories, crying, getting excited and yelling (which I have > also done in private), or anything else related? Hey, couldn't pass this one up. The one I can remember grumbling about the most is _Wuthering Heights_. During the whole book, and my mother can vouch for this, I kept (sp?) hoping that all the characters would just die or kill each other and I could be put out of my misery. For all of you who might like this book, since I know there are a couple of English teachers on this, sorry, and for all of you still in school who might have to read this in before you graduate, I am _really_ sorry for you. Other than that, I have a lot of books I cried about: the Vanyel series, _All the Weyrs of Pern_ (I think that's the title, the one where Robinson dies, big sob) and _Dragon Singer_ by McAffery, the Storm books, and probably some others I can't think of right now. Lots of Luck, Rehtaeh ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:06:27 -0500 (EST) From: Jennie Specie To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Crying Message-ID: > > Hey, couldn't pass this one up. The one I can remember grumbling about the most is > _Wuthering Heights_. During the whole book, and my mother can vouch for this, I kept (sp?) > hoping that all the characters would just die or kill each other and I could be put out of > my misery. For all of you who might like this book, since I know there are a couple of I did like Wuthering Heights, despite the fact that I was forced to read it..I tend to like books less if I HAVE to read them as opposed to WANTING to read...BUT..I agree with ya, I felt the same way about most of the chars! I'm surprised that that book wasn't banned in my teeny little Buckle-of-the-bible-belt county! A few others were, but that one missed *giggle* Re:All the Weyrs of Pern--I cry every time I read that part of the book where Robinton died. In high school it used to be funny (to my mom) because I'd be sitting around reading and start sniffling, and mom would just look at me wondering what's wrong, and I'd say "Reading that part of AtWoP again" Question: I'm starting to expand my horizons a little, and our public library (which I visited for teh first time ever last week) seems to have just about all of the Darkover books. I was wondering if I can start anywhere, with any set (they seem to come in different sets/time periods/something) or if there is a certain book/set I should be starting with... Later all, Jennie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:10:48 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: Heather Shannon To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Companions Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Dec 1997 18:56:59 GMT "K.S." wrote: >Speaking of reincarnation, I was > curious if Misty flubbed on this one line, or if the idea hadn't hit her > yet. Van is talking with Fandes, and he said something, and her reply was > (to the effect of) "You humans..." and then Van realized that the big > diff between them was that he was a human and she wasn't. But if she is > reincarnated, then why did she say that? Anyone getting this here, it > doesn't make much sense to me... Maybe it's not so much that she was human at some point, but that she was. Okay I know that doesn't make much sence so I'll try to clarify it a little. She was a human so she knows how they think adn feel and how irrational they can behave, but she's also died and come back in this horse form with special abilities, so she's more than human (?). It's kind of like when adults say "these kids now a days." They were kids once and more than likely they did a lot of the stupid stuff (maybe not the exact stuff) that we do, but they have experience behind them which gives them a different perspective on stuff. This is just my opinion, so feel free to disagree, but it makes sense to me. Lots of Luck, Rehtaeh ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 14:13:05 -0600 From: tigger-+AT+-deskmedia.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Van not getting Chosen Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19971202201305.006ab600-+AT+-deskmedia.com> At 06:01 PM 12/2/97 GMT, you wrote: >> >Now for my question: when Talia follows Elspeth outside to the >> >> an explanation for the Grove-born Companions? They Gate to the Grove?< >> Hmm, that's a possible explanation you know! But aren't they spirit-born or >> something? How the hell do they Gate there? >> I would think that it is something like when Idra came floating in in "The Oathbreakers" to get her revenge on her brother. But if I remember this right, she came floating in, out the havens. So maybe this is how Gwena came in. *********************************** Mary Adams -- tigger-+AT+-deskmedia.com Albert Lea, MN *********************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 15:33:14 -0500 (EST) From: "H. Torrance Griffin" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: mage-born children after Van's time Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Dec 1997, K.S. wrote: > > Hmm..just had a thought. We know the kind of havoc an untrained mage can > cause. So what happened to all the children that were born with the gift > after Van's death? Of course there was no-one to train them, did they > leave Valdemar? Either that or go quietly insane if they were not chosen. > And are all Valdemarians with mind > magic _good_? Probably not. But the best trained ones come out of Haven so that's probably Not A Problem HTG ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 12:59:04 -0700 From: "kerowyn" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Question- Music Message-ID: I totally agree! I think the upbeat tempo of Magic's Price takes something away from the story of his last battle. It's not nearly as moving as the scene is in the book. Also on Shadowstalker, I love the song Vrondi's Eyes. Something about it just makes me smile! And as far as other Misty albums are concerned, I will always love Heralds, Harpers and Havoc. I suppose that has something to do with it's connections to the Arrows series, but it's just plain beautiful music, too. I also like the Mercedes Lackey- Live! album. Besides being good music, there's some really good laughs on there, like The Oklahoma Weed Whaker Massacre, the Rat Faulkner Slobber Song (I've got myself a blond, now, and i'm not THAT short, but the song rings true none-the-less, hehe) and Threes, revision 1.1 ( a classic, definiately!) But back to Misty songs, specifically. Does anybody have a favorite Misty song that they really think applies to their life? Right now, Arrow's Flight (on Heralds Harpers and Havoc) really apllies to my life. I'm a freshman in college, and for the past month or so, I've really been in an upheaval. I really feel as if I've lost my center. It seems as if everything that I once thought to be true about myself isn't so, so I'm rather unstable. Things seem to be coming somewhat together (as the semester draws to a close, no doubt!) but that song still rings very strong and clear with me. Anyone else? Measure in love, Kay, who joined the list rather recently and is quite happy to be here --- "And I know, that through it all the hardest part of love is letting go, but there's a greater love that holds us." Michael W. Smith Free web-based email, Forever, From anywhere! http://www.mailexcite.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 09:18:27 +1000 From: Melanie_M_Harris/Logistics/AU-+AT+-stratlog.fe.defence.gov.au To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Question / Groveborn / WHAT!!! Message-ID: <4A256561.007E4FE7.00-+AT+-notes.dgl.psg.fe.defence.gov.au> Autumnwing asked: > "...shredding the Dark Adept's spirit to atoms..." > This is from Storm Rising (pg. 139) and is talking about Firesong. > Here's the (okay, I admit it, VERY nit-picky) question: has Valdemar > (or more correctly, the Tayledras) possibly advanced to the point > where they could identify atoms? Identify atoms as "things made up of protons etc. and every element's atoms are different", no. The earliest meaning of the word "atom" was "the smallest piece possible,*" and I think that's how it's being used here. [* The classical explanation of "atom" went something like this: "If you cut an object in half, then in half again, then again, you will eventually have a piece that is too small to be divided any further. That is an atom."] ***** Dax the Eternal said: > Unlike normal Companions, Groveborn survive the passing of their > Chosen, take Rolan for example. Uh-uh. Nope. Rolan is a bad example; he's the Monarch's Own's Companion. It's mentioned early in AOTQ that the MOC is "always Groveborn, always male, and the *only* Companion that can survive the death of his Chosen." All the first Companions were Groveborn, and there's nothing in the books about any of *them* surviving their Chosens' deaths. ***** Dov asked: > I !!!STILL!!! have no idea why who took offense? Because the original poster wrote "witchcraft" in all capitals when they were saying it was nothing like Native American Shamanism - for emphasis, I guess - and the person who took offense was, IMHO, being oversensitive. (Fair enough if they've been having trouble with people who think Wicca = Devil Worship or something, but we're generally pretty tolerant on this list.) Mel the Redcap ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:55:32 -0800 (PST) From: "K.S." To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: withen Message-ID: > O.B.Misty: > Anyone every wonder about the strange acceptance of Vanyalby > Withen in the last book? I mean, for years Withen had feared that someone > would find out about his son's prefernces, and on his last visit to his > home he suddenly rolls out the red carpet ( the sleeping arrangements > vis-a-vis Him and Stef). Just seemed a little sudden to me. > > Lafrita thae, > > Papa Bear*** > What I found strange was that in the first book, isn't the shoe on the other foot? Wasn't Van the one that couldn't forgive Withen and Withen the one that wanted Van's acceptance?(for lack of a better word) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 15:00:41 -0800 (PST) From: "K.S." To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Question / Groveborn / WHAT!!! Message-ID: > Uh-uh. Nope. Rolan is a bad example; he's the Monarch's Own's Companion. > It's mentioned early in AOTQ that the MOC is "always Groveborn, always > male, and the *only* Companion that can survive the death of his Chosen." > All the first Companions were Groveborn, and there's nothing in the books > about any of *them* surviving their Chosens' deaths. So how long _does_ the monarch's own companion live? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 18:32:54 -0500 From: Beth Allan To: "'mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk'" Subject: RE: Vrondi Message-ID: <01BCFF52.6781EB20-+AT+-ppp01-03.aci.on.ca> ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCFF52.678B12E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I seem to remember, I forget in one book, that the vrondi were indeed = only known in Valdemar, but there was also a command that the mage was = supposed to say, a voice recognition or something like that. The vrondi = recognized that, and left. Remember the mage in with the Skyhawks, = Kero's friend? He was an excellent mage, and he was still forced to = leave Valdemar, because of them. Just my own thoughts on the subject!! Beth -----Original Message----- From: K.S. [SMTP:n9582531-+AT+-cc.wwu.edu] Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 1997 1:05 PM To: bethallan-+AT+-voicetel.ca Subject: Re:Vrondi >=20 > Also if Van knew what the Vrondi were and could see them, why would = they > drive other mages crazy? Couldn't they just see them too? The > vrondi were just air elementals, any elementalist mage or any mage > with mage-sight, should have been able to see them and then > would just be able to either banish them or ignore them > ************************ I seem to remember somewhere that Van decided to use the Vrondi for the spell specifically because he believed that no-one outside of Valdemar knew of their existence. IMHO I think that if the mage was good/smart enough he/she would figure out what was going on. 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