MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1418

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) RE: Vanyel
	by jourgen <jourgen-+AT+-mindspring.com>
  2) Re: Sexuality
	by Melanie_M_Harris/Logistics/AU-+AT+-stratlog.fe.defence.gov.au
  3) went a little overboard with my delete key
	by Eos419 <Eos419-+AT+-aol.com>
  4) Usenames
	by David Lovely <shaych-+AT+-simons-rock.edu>
  5) Re: Vanyel actor
	by "angie" <heraldtg-+AT+-mbox3.singnet.com.sg>
  6) S & S
	by Crystal Hewitt <mysttree-+AT+-phantomreality.com>
  7) Re: Sexuality
	by Royal Nyte <RoyalNyte-+AT+-aol.com>
  8) Re: Casting
	by RPierce137 <RPierce137-+AT+-aol.com>
  9) Re: Keanu Reeves as Vanyel???
	by RPierce137 <RPierce137-+AT+-aol.com>
 10) Re: movies v.books/mistymovie/interspecies
	by RPierce137 <RPierce137-+AT+-aol.com>
 11) Re: withen
	by JEatonM <JEatonM-+AT+-aol.com>
 12) Re: Companions
	by JEatonM <JEatonM-+AT+-aol.com>
 13) Re: Keanu Reeves as Vanyel???
	by JEatonM <JEatonM-+AT+-aol.com>
 14) Narnia
	by JEatonM <JEatonM-+AT+-aol.com>
 15) Braid: Callisto/multi-posts/elves/str8 Vanyel
	by Kenneth Allen Hyde <kenny-+AT+-UDel.Edu>
 16) Re: Sexuality
	by prince_ravnos-+AT+-juno.com (James B Collar)
 17) Re: Sexuality
	by RPierce137 <RPierce137-+AT+-aol.com>
 18) Re: aoq, tale
	by bookluvr-+AT+-prairie.lakes.com
 19) Re: Crying
	by bookluvr-+AT+-prairie.lakes.com
 20) Re: goodbye (for now)
	by bookluvr-+AT+-prairie.lakes.com
 21) Re: Keanu Reeves as Vanyel???
	by bookluvr-+AT+-prairie.lakes.com
 22) The Camel's Back - URL
	by bookluvr-+AT+-prairie.lakes.com
 23) Jisa as Queen
	by bookluvr-+AT+-prairie.lakes.com
 24) Re: Talia's Attempt on Her Life
	by bookluvr-+AT+-prairie.lakes.com
 25) Braid
	by GrobuHit-+AT+-t-online.de (M. Grob u. S. Hitzler)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 21:10:44 -0500
From: jourgen <jourgen-+AT+-mindspring.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: RE: Vanyel
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19971204211044.00694f30-+AT+-pop.mindspring.com>

Regarding an actor to portray Vanyel, and this may be heavily influcenced
by my idea of what he looks like, but how about Rupert Evertt?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 13:40:51 +1000
From: Melanie_M_Harris/Logistics/AU-+AT+-stratlog.fe.defence.gov.au
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Sexuality
Message-ID: <4A256564.001330EB.00-+AT+-notes.dgl.psg.fe.defence.gov.au>





Heartspring wrote:
> heterosexuality is shoved down EVERYONE'S throats.  You never see
> jewelry commercials with two men exchanging rings, or two women doing
> the same...<snip>

On a lighter note, I think you might like to know about a TV ad here in
Australia <snicker> it's a good one. The product being plugged is Dare
flavoured milk.

Boy and girl sitting on a sofa. Girl is snuggled up to boy, rubbing his
chest. Boy is looking a bit trapped.

Girl:
"Go on... say those three little words that would mean so much to me."

Boy:
"I..." <takes out bottle of Dare milk, swigs from it> "...prefer guys."

Voiceover:
"You can do anything on a Dare!!!!!"


heeheehee!
Mel the Redcap



------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 21:33:15 EST
From: Eos419 <Eos419-+AT+-aol.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: went a little overboard with my delete key
Message-ID: <73a42c98.34876903-+AT+-aol.com>

I deleted everything I wanted to reply to.  Oops.  So bear with me, those who
I'm talking about know who they are. 
First of all I want to say thank you to all who replied to my thing about
crying, on and off the list.  It's odd the subject came up because I've been
particularly frustrated and touchy about my inability to cry lately.  I think
I can say that no one on this list has a heart of stone.
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{[[listsibs}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}  

Second (and misty-related), the Monarch's Own (how would you pluralize that?
there were 2) during Vanyel's time were Lancir and Shavri.  No others were
mentioned to the best of my knowledge.  At any rate, neither of them were
named Taver.

Third: Mage-gift after the time of Vanyel.  
"Then her recalled something; these Heralds, one and all, had mind magic and
were trained in it.  If they didn't know what Mage-Talent was - it could,
possibly, be mistaken for something like Sight.  And if she was told that this
was just another way of veiwing things, that she could not actually affect
them, she might not have caused any trouble." (WoFate p. 173)   Somewhere, but
not in books I own, we're told that one of Elspeth's Gifts is Sight.  So...
that's what I think happened to the people with the Mage Gift.  They were
Chosen and trained as if they had Sight.  

Zhai'helleva,
Kaeldra  

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 22:17:13 -0500 (EST)
From: David Lovely <shaych-+AT+-simons-rock.edu>
To: the List <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: Usenames
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.95.971204221632.24788D-100000-+AT+-plato>

pardon, all... who's the member of the list who so graciously volunteered to
help us find usenames?  =o)  If they could drop me a private line, I'd
appreciate it to NO end.  =o)

Wing to thy wings and clear skies,
Dave

*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*
____      Dave Lovely * shaych-+AT+-simons-rock.edu * Dave_17Wi or DaveQat on IRC
\  /__    
 \/  /       "In empty spaces I twist and talk, and come down with the roar     
   \/           of thunder."
	                        -The Discordian Quotes


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:25:46 +0800
From: "angie" <heraldtg-+AT+-mbox3.singnet.com.sg>
To: <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Vanyel actor
Message-ID: <01bd0135$dbb1d0c0$LocalHost-+AT+-default>

:Does anyone else fing that Van looks the youngest on the cover of Mprice
and
:the oldest on Mpawn?  I've always thought that...
Yes, And I also noticed that Van looked seriously like Taran from Lloyd
Alexander's Prydain Chronicles. Seriously.

Cennyyd wrote:
:Also, I finally decided on the perfect Kero: Cory Everson.  For those of
:you who watch Hercules, she had a rather memorable guest appearance
<snip>
I think I remember who you're talking about. I found a better one for
Kero!!!! No one kill me for this! Anyone remember Callisto? Mad girl trying
to kill Xena? Now immortal with Godlike powers? Yep! Can't remember the
actress' name, but she's quite good....

To the listsib who wrote about multiple posts (sorry, I deleted your mail!)>
I totally agree with you. I also will not post more than one reply a day.
However, you must realize thatw e all live in different time zones. What one
perceives as the same day may be perceived as two days by another person.
Bear with it. Of course, 5 mails are not forgiven. Neither is the _not_
snipping....

       ( )         Wind to thy Wings
       ) (         Angie mindmate to Raul
<====+====>  Elven Archer-Mage of Fairgrove >>~~~~~>
       |  |         Lady of OOPS
       |  |         NoIsE ApPrENticE!!!!!
       |  |         Grand Dame of The Order of Namers
       |  |         Email at shadowblade-+AT+-rocketmail.com
       |  |                   or shadowdancer-+AT+-deathsdoor.com
       |  |         Check out my homepage at ~>
       |  |         http://members.tripod.com/~Shadowblade
       |  |         Please vote for me at the Site Fights from 1 - 6/12/97
       |  |         http://www.thesitefights.com/fantasy/train3.htm
        \/         (self-advertising, gotta hate it! ;))
Quote of the Year:
"It's a small thing to accept people for what they are; if we really love
them we must want them to be what they are." ---Alain, a French philosopher
and essayist





------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 00:00:52 -0500
From: Crystal Hewitt <mysttree-+AT+-phantomreality.com>
To: "'mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk'" <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: S & S
Message-ID: <01BD0110.E0CA49E0-+AT+-crystalh.phantomreality.com>

Heyla Listsibs,
	Yes, I have returned (doubt if you even missed me, but that's beside the 
point).  The actual reason for my post is that I was wondering if any of 
you oh so gracious listsibs have any extra Sword & Sorcerer (sp.?) books 
that have Misty's works in them.  I am having trouble locating any of her 
earlier works, and am dying to read about Tarma & Keth's  earlier 
adventures.  If anyone has any suggestions feel free to respond privately 
at Mysttree-+AT+-phantomreality.com

WTTW,
Mysttree
personal website: www.tphantom.com
Mysttree-+AT+-phantomreality.com

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 00:40:13 EST
From: Royal Nyte <RoyalNyte-+AT+-aol.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Sexuality
Message-ID: <b241e488.3487949f-+AT+-aol.com>

LOL....


That is a good commerical....but unfortunately...too many women are hurt from
that...I wish there was some way to tell others that men can love men without
hurting the women in their lives, etc...:(

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 01:03:57 EST
From: RPierce137 <RPierce137-+AT+-aol.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Casting
Message-ID: <d2db7001.3487994f-+AT+-aol.com>

I forgot to include 'Lendel in my casting...Ryan Phillipe.  

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 01:11:40 EST
From: RPierce137 <RPierce137-+AT+-aol.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Keanu Reeves as Vanyel???
Message-ID: <8e419a83.34879b1e-+AT+-aol.com>

In a message dated 97-12-04 18:06:35 EST, you write:

<< Also he's too old, he could never do a sixteen 
 year old boy like Van is in the first book. >>

     Here's a question for you...It would be a LOT more feasible to make MPawn
into a film if Van was over 21, or at least 18.  Would you guys accept this
change?
     If  nothing else, the actor would probably be around 30 anyway, (remember
40something Barbra Streisand in Yent?)
     Robert Pierce

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 01:22:18 EST
From: RPierce137 <RPierce137-+AT+-aol.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: movies v.books/mistymovie/interspecies
Message-ID: <1152b386.34879d9c-+AT+-aol.com>

In a message dated 97-12-04 21:28:39 EST, you write:

<< I hav enoticed a few people who's names come up several
 times in a day..Simply cause they write 1 or 2 liners in each one
 responding to a diff post...PLEASE braid, or something, so that you don't
 have several 1liners...Thanks...
 
 Jennie
  >>
    Sorry to Jennie and others out there...another list with considerably
heavier traffic mandates that all posts have different subjects( ie. no
braids).  It works well there, because you can skip the threads you don't
like.  That's one reason why I've done so many short posts.  The other is that
AOL mixes up the order of my mail.  I thought that I was crazy for awhile, but
on at least 25 occaisions, I've received posts quoting other posts before I've
received the original post.  I'll try to braid more often.
   Robert

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 01:17:32 EST
From: JEatonM <JEatonM-+AT+-aol.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: withen
Message-ID: <4feea187.34879c7f-+AT+-aol.com>

In a message dated 97-12-03 04:35:33 EST, you write:

<< Anyone every wonder about the strange acceptance of Vanyalby
 >> Withen in the last book?  I mean, for years Withen had feared that 
 someone
 >> would find out about his son's prefernces, and on his last visit to 
 his
 >> home he suddenly rolls out the red carpet ( >>

I don't think it is really that strange at all.  The situation has paralells
in our world, after all.  I know lots of people who were shunned and abandoned
by their families when they "came out" - thank God my parents are loving and
understanding - but there are lots of parents who aren't.  Frankly, Withen
shows admirable character in overcoming the beliefs which were drummed into
him.  We see him making a strong effort by book two to learn to show his love
for his son.  In the real world, it isn't always that easy, sad to say. Of
course, when I read the first book, I detested Withen, as I am sure we all
did...but comparing him to real people, I have to give him an "A" for effort.

John E. Morris

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 01:20:55 EST
From: JEatonM <JEatonM-+AT+-aol.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Companions
Message-ID: <1e62f307.34879d49-+AT+-aol.com>

In a message dated 97-12-03 04:49:05 EST, you write:

<< 
 I think that since she wasn't human in THIS incarnation, it does make 
 enough of a difference.  The body you wear makes a difference in your 
 thought proccesses and how you look at the world. >>

I also wonder (and please don't hit me for using such a hackneyed ohrase here)
if the Companions don't have something of a "been there, done that" sort of
attitude towards "mere humans".  In the way that we as adults (I guess most of
us are adults?) look upon small children with a sort of benovolent superiority
(shamefull, but, we have to admit, true)  I would think that the Companions
look upon their heralds in the same way. Just MHO...

John E. Morris

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 01:35:45 EST
From: JEatonM <JEatonM-+AT+-aol.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Keanu Reeves as Vanyel???
Message-ID: <27c1fffa.3487a0c3-+AT+-aol.com>

In a message dated 97-12-04 04:15:35 EST, you write:

<<  Many of the male stars out there
 today are just to ruggedly good looking rather than beautiful, as Van is so
 often described.  I think were it to be cast, it's probably going to be an
 unknown that will walk away with the coveted prize.   >>

Matthew McConaughey <SP???> would be perfect were his hair darker.  He is both
handsome and "beautiful" - not to mention being a damn good actor.  Of course,
as a professional actor myself - I nominate....ME!!!


John E. Morris

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 01:39:29 EST
From: JEatonM <JEatonM-+AT+-aol.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Narnia
Message-ID: <806b75fa.3487a1a3-+AT+-aol.com>

In a message dated 97-12-03 10:15:08 EST, you write:

<< 	The most touching books for myself have been the entire Chronicles
 of Narnia (given a choice, I'd be living there) >>

Me, Too!!!  I'm 25 years old, but for the last year have been collection the
new hardcover editions with cover art by Christopher Van Allsburg <the
greatest children's illustrator since N.C. Wyeth>  I'm glad I'm not the only
one.  I have this great framed map  on my wall, of Narnia that was printed
back in the 70's - It's full color of Narnia, Calormen and Archenland, with
relevant areas from each book mapped out.

John E. Morris

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 01:52:30 -0500 (EST)
From: Kenneth Allen Hyde <kenny-+AT+-UDel.Edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Braid: Callisto/multi-posts/elves/str8 Vanyel
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.971205005426.14024A-100000-+AT+-copland.udel.edu>

On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, angie wrote:

> I think I remember who you're talking about. I found a better one for
> Kero!!!! No one kill me for this! Anyone remember Callisto? Mad girl trying
> to kill Xena? Now immortal with Godlike powers? Yep! Can't remember the
> actress' name, but she's quite good....

No, no, no, no, no, no!   I was saving her to play Kethry (she isn't
really big and muscley enough for Kero.  Kero was intimidatingly strong
yet very sexy (c.f. Karal's first fighting lesson with her).  Keth was
deceptively sweet and frail looking, but dangerously competent.  Hudson
would be perfect for Keth, but completely inappropriate for Kero, IMNSHO.
BTW, the actress in question is named Hudson Leake and she is an official
object of lust for amongst certain lesbian women of my acquaintance.

> Bear with it. Of course, 5 mails are not forgiven. Neither is the _not_
> snipping....

Oh, does this mean that y'all missed the person who posted 23 messages in
a span of 3 hours? =) 

Actually, the guidelines for the list don't really limit the number of
times you can post per day, but courtesy says that you shouldn't post more
than once at any one sitting.  For example, I may check my email twice a
day.  If there is enough time, I will answer stuff at each sitting and
that may lead to me posting to the Misty list.  However, I try not to post
more than one message at any given session.

Even with this, this is only a guideline.  If someone posts a couple of
nice large substantive messages within a couple of hours, flaming seems to
be uncalled for.  Really, the only multiple messages that bother me are
the one-liners (which are almost always fluff or spam) and the ones where
it is clear that the sender did not read all their email before posting.

Hmmmm.  Speaking of which, I suppose I should finish reading my email
before I send this off.  BBIAB.  (Oh, and I just realized that angie has a
really huge sig--many lines and a graphic--which is technically a bad
thing.  Any more than 6 lines is really pushing the envelope--four lines
is the recommended guide--but nobody gets too upset if you have six lines)

Back.  Okay, so I also wanted to respond to this elf/tayledras thing.
Dax, you squirrely squirrel, watch out for the cushman's on campus, dear.
Anyway, you mentioned some parallels between elves and tayledras.  Let us
examine them:

Dax wrote:
> I personally have always thought that Talaydras were based on Elves.
> Now its not so far fetched....(Hey! Holy Hand where are you?  Your
> Goddess may need defending!) 

> Talaydras live in trees....Elves live in trees (ala Rivendale)

If we are talking Tolkienesque elves, they didn't live in trees for the
most part, certainly not in Rivendell (Imladris).  The Galadrim in
Lothlorien were the only elves that lived in trees as a matter of course.
Even the elves of Mirkwood lived in caverns, while the elves of Rivendell
and the Havens lived primarily in fabricated dwellings such as the
Elrond's House.  The Noldor were noted for their building skills and
constructed elaborate cities and citadels.

> Talaydras have silver/white hair .....Elves have fair hair

Again, it depends on the type of elf.  Most of the elves in Tolkien had
shadow-colored hair, with a few notable exceptions (Glorfindel and
Galadriel come to mind).  Of course, the scandinavian alfar (whence the
word "elf") were supposed to be blond (at least the light elves).

> Talaydras have pale eyes....Elves have spring green (pale) eyes

Same argument as before.  Which elves?  Wendy Pini's elves had various
colored eyes, and the only colors that Tolkien really mentions are deep
shadowy colors, AFAIK.

> Talaydras are friends with animals/rangers....Elves are friends with
> animals/rangers

Tolkien's elves did not ever seem to consider animals to be friends.  Some
animals were servants, others were enemies, and the rest were of no
particular interest.  And the Tolkienesque elves had little traffic with
humans.  The dunadan were allies, but Aragorn seemed to be the only one
who was an "elf-friend."

> Talaydras have "looser /more accepting" mores.....Elves have ditto

Hmmm.  Depends on the elves again.  Certainly was not true of Tolkien.
Only marginally true of Pini's elves (they were different rather than more
accepting).  Categorically not the case among the sidhe of traditional
folklore and the modern literary tradition.

> Talaydras seem timeless until they get really old....Elves ditto

Elves in Tolkien don't "get old" since they are ageless.  Galadriel and
Celebrant were both ancient (Celebrant was one of the original elves and
Galadriel was a Noldor princess who was born before the destruction of the
Two Trees) and they were both youthful in appearance.

> Talaydras are protectors of the Land....Elves ditto

Traditional elves were territorial, but that was all.  There was no sense
of them being "environmentally conscious."

> Talaydras are very magical (even strange magic)....Elves ditto

Okay, this is true. But it is also true of dwarves, humans, and any number
of other creatures in traditional fantasy.  Actually, the business with
the heartstones reminds me very much of the dwarves in Hambly's
"Dragonsbane."

> Talaydras live in a vale of eternal summer, where everything is more
> beautiful....Elves ditto

Imladris, yes.  Lothlorien, possibly.  Mirkwood, hardly.  Gondolin, nope.

> Talaydras like poetic, descriptive names...Elves ditto (with lots of
> natural stuff thrown in)

I'm assuming you are not talking about Tolkienesque elves here, since they
didn't have usenames, to speak of, and most of the names don't have much
to do with nature.  Pini does, of course.

> Talaydras have hertasi to do the menial work....Elves have brownies

Really?  I've never heard this one.

> Talaydras live in far off places that you get to by Gating....Elves live
> Underhill, you get there through a gate

This would be the traditional sidhe, right?  But they didn't live in trees
or valleys.  They lived in palaces inside their mounds.

> Talaydras are always very good unless they are very bad....Elves are
> Seelie or Unseelie

Traditional Gaelic folklore holds this.  Norse differentiates between dark
and light elves.  Tolkien did not have "bad" elves as a group; he had one
or two evil ones, though.  Actually, in this case Tolkien's elves pattern
better with tayledras, since there aren't any "dark tayledras" groups that
would be the equivalent of the Unseelie Court.

> Well, I think that proves my point....Talaydras are closet Elves.

I think that you still have a lot of work cut out for you.  It is clear
that Misty was building a culture that shared some characteristics with
some types of elves, but it is also clear that there is not direct mapping
and that the similarities are very superficial.  Since Misty makes it
clear in her writing that Tayledras are a human culture, you could hardly
claim that Darkwind is a different species from Elspeth.  I think that you
could make an almost equally good case for the tayledras being based on
the romantic ideal of the noble savage with a bit of real magic thrown in.

> Like, maybe its because a gay/lesbian bond isn't as strong as a hetro
> bond, you know.

Nonsense!  It is obviously because we are more resilient and have greater
emotional strength.  Not to mention the fact that, with our fabulous
decorating skills, we can lighten the mood of our surroundings and
distract ourselves from our deep emotional pain. *giggle*

The Alternate LHM scenario was interesting, if a bit predictable.  I still
contend that it would have led to an implausible character (Van would
never be believable as the whiny, self-pitying, drama-queen that he is if
he were supposed to be str8, since most the angst about others' opinions
centered around his sexuality and its unacceptability--and trust me that
being a bit standoffish, but str8, is a whole order of magnitude more
acceptable than being gay).  And Dax is quite right that it would have
been just another harlequin romance, plot-wise.  So, improbable character
and hackneyed plot = bad novel.  Believable (if annoying) character and a
re-figured plot = good novel.  I'm glad Misty went for the good one. =)

May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit,

Cennydd
Councilor of Mist

Kenneth Allen Hyde     |  No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife
Univ. of Delaware      |  between the shoulder blades will seriously
Dept. of Linguistics   |  cramp his style  -- Old Jhereg proverb
kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu         |  A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me

//www.ling.udel.edu/hyde/prof/ken.html




------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 23:16:10 -0600
From: prince_ravnos-+AT+-juno.com (James B Collar)
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Sexuality
Message-ID: <19971204.232455.9918.1.Prince_Ravnos-+AT+-juno.com>


On Thu, 4 Dec 1997 21:30:30 GMT "Jeff Aguiar" <roman_87-+AT+-hotmail.com>
writes:
>
>
>*Heartspring stands defiantly behind John*...I'm glad someone said 
>that...I would have lost much had I decided to tackle that...
>
>In response to it not being important, one has to understand that 
>heterosexuality is shoved down EVERYONE'S throats.  You never see 
>jewelry commercials with two men exchanging rings, or two women doing 
>the same...In magazine ads, unless they are SPECIFICALLY geared for 
>homosexuals, it's always a man wrestling in the sand with a woman as 
>the 
>ocean washes up around them advertising some cologne.  


I hope no one takes this wrong, for I mean no offense..

.but, hmmm... how do I say this...  Well, I'll use me as an example...one
of my best friends was gay (he still is, I just lost contact with him, so
I refer to him in past tense) and I don't care...but to see him kiss
another man (there were no other gay men anywhere near him at Job Corps,
although another showed up after he left) would be... bad, bad is not the
word i want to use, but i can't think of another... this is not because I
mind that he is gay, it's just that I would never do it, so seeing
someone do it makes me imagine me doing it and that is bad.  Plus, you
have to look at the fact that many of the people in this world are
christian or something similar that says gays are evil and are going to
hell (personally, i think God is not going to send you to hell just for
being gay...)  

I guess what I am trying to say is that to some (most?  all i know is me
and my friends, family, etc.)  heterosexual male, seeing two men kissing
is gross (although, note that lesbians are attractive to many men...even,
I admit, me.)  I can't say what heterosexual women think, but I know most
girls i've known say it is gross.  Now, do homosexuals think it is gross
to see a man kiss a woman?

Again, I mean no offense by these comments, I just mean to point out
that...well I think you all see what I am trying to say here but I can't
think of a way to say it without sounding rude and offending someone....


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 03:39:14 EST
From: RPierce137 <RPierce137-+AT+-aol.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Sexuality
Message-ID: <d4d061e.3487bdb5-+AT+-aol.com>

<< Again, I mean no offense by these comments, I just mean to point out
 that...well I think you all see what I am trying to say here but I can't
 think of a way to say it without sounding rude and offending someone....
  >>

     Actually, I'm unsure of what you're trying to say.  You've admitted to
being uncomfortable with the idea of two guys kissing.  Was that it, or was
there a point?
Did I miss something?
     And if that was it, don't you think that the discomfort stems from the
input you've had.  If you had grown up seeing that portrayed openly, don't you
think you might have a different point of view?
     
<<Plus, youhave to look at the fact that many of the people in this world are
christian or something similar that says gays are evil and are going to
hell (personally, i think God is not going to send you to hell just for
being gay...)  >>

     Yes, some people are Christian.  What of it?  They cannot dictate what
any non-Christian does simply because it makes them uncomfortable.
Personally, I find about 80% of PDA offensive, but I'm not pushing to make it
illegal.

      Robert

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 03:50:22 +0000
From: bookluvr-+AT+-prairie.lakes.com
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: aoq, tale
Message-ID: <199712050951.DAA31414-+AT+-Prairie.Lakes.com>

> Date:          Thu, 4 Dec 1997 18:37:43 GMT
> Reply-to:      mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
> From:          "K.S." <n9582531-+AT+-cc.wwu.edu>
> To:            bookluvr-+AT+-prairie.lakes.com
> Subject:       Re: aoq, tale


> > Here's a *good* observation, IMNSHO. From _Arrows of the Queen_:
> > "Vanyel was dim shape in the darkness beside her..."
> > and later
> > " 'And I want Stef well out of this;Yfandes couldn't carry us double, but
> > you're light enough that Evalie could easily manage both of you...' "
> > This is at the very beginning, when Talia is reading a tale about Van. In
> > this one,  Why would
> > someone change a tale so much? Maybe Misty originally had planned for this
> > woman to be in LH-M, but just couldn't fit her in. Ideas?
> > Autumnwing
> When I read it, I thought that Talia was putting herself into the
> story. I thought that someone wrote a narrative or something about
> Van's last battle or whatever you want to call it.

I agree, it says in the book that Talia was pulled away from her 
daydream....  She was reading the book and daydreaming herself into 
it as if she were there (ie the author's perspective.)

Sheri
Sheri Graber Rector roseleaf-+AT+-prairie.lakes.com,  bookluvr-+AT+-prairie.lakes.com
http://prairie.lakes.com/~roseleaf/fibro/index.html
Fibromyalgia and Chronic Fatigue Resources Site

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 03:50:32 +0000
From: bookluvr-+AT+-prairie.lakes.com
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Crying
Message-ID: <199712050951.DAA31422-+AT+-Prairie.Lakes.com>

> On this crying thing,
> 		I am a really emotional person and MP didn't make me cry.  I guess it 
> was because no one really died, Yfandes, Vanyel and stefen got to be 
> together anyways so wht would that mean crying, I don't get where the 
> crying comes in.
> 					Rebecca Bondmate of Xeben the barnowl

It comes in (for me) when stephen is trying to find Van's body and 
the Kyree show up.  It is VERY moving.  When I read a book, I live in 
the moment, I know what happens in the end, but it still is very 
emotional when something sad happens.

Sheri
Sheri Graber Rector roseleaf-+AT+-prairie.lakes.com,  bookluvr-+AT+-prairie.lakes.com
http://prairie.lakes.com/~roseleaf/fibro/index.html
Fibromyalgia and Chronic Fatigue Resources Site

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 03:50:37 +0000
From: bookluvr-+AT+-prairie.lakes.com
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: goodbye (for now)
Message-ID: <199712050951.DAA31426-+AT+-Prairie.Lakes.com>


> Hmmmm how bout Kiefer Sutherland for Jervis?

Perfect!
I will watch almost any movie with him in it...


Sheri 
Sheri Graber Rector roseleaf-+AT+-prairie.lakes.com,  bookluvr-+AT+-prairie.lakes.com
http://prairie.lakes.com/~roseleaf/fibro/index.html
Fibromyalgia and Chronic Fatigue Resources Site

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 03:50:43 +0000
From: bookluvr-+AT+-prairie.lakes.com
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Keanu Reeves as Vanyel???
Message-ID: <199712050951.DAA31432-+AT+-Prairie.Lakes.com>

> Heyla,
> 	I know why Keanu Reeves wouldn't make a good Vanyel, because he only 
> has one facial expression and that's (as my friends call it) the deer in 
> the headlights look. Vanyel is a very emotional person and he just 
> couldn't pull it off. Also he's too old, he could never do a sixteen 
> year old boy like Van is in the first book.
> 							Rebecca Bondmate of Xeben the Barnowl


You Know, I WISH I HAD A CLUE who all these guys are that are being 
talked about!  I have heard the names before, but have absolutely NO 
idea who they are, what they look like (or sound like), or what they 
played in. :(

Sigh... I guess that's what I get for not being able to afford a tv.  
:(

Oh Well, Sheri
Sheri Graber Rector roseleaf-+AT+-prairie.lakes.com,  bookluvr-+AT+-prairie.lakes.com
http://prairie.lakes.com/~roseleaf/fibro/index.html
Fibromyalgia and Chronic Fatigue Resources Site

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 03:50:48 +0000
From: bookluvr-+AT+-prairie.lakes.com
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: The Camel's Back - URL
Message-ID: <199712050952.DAA31437-+AT+-Prairie.Lakes.com>

http://www.firebirdarts.com/1mlback.htm
is the URL of the letter Misty wrote on 11/22
Which states why Misty and Larry Dixon  will no longer
be attending SF any conventions.

Basically, no one was taking the danger seriously, and 
someone got hurt.  They don't want to take any more 
chances for some looney to take a pot shot at them.

http://www.firebirdarts.com/ is a wonderful place!
YMMV,
Sheri
Sheri Graber Rector roseleaf-+AT+-prairie.lakes.com,  bookluvr-+AT+-prairie.lakes.com
http://prairie.lakes.com/~roseleaf/fibro/index.html
Fibromyalgia and Chronic Fatigue Resources Site

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 03:50:53 +0000
From: bookluvr-+AT+-prairie.lakes.com
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Jisa as Queen
Message-ID: <199712050952.DAA31445-+AT+-Prairie.Lakes.com>

> when Jisa was 6 Van counseled Randale to 
> stop pushing Shavri to marry him and make Jisa heir because Jisa's gifts 
> would make her a great King's Own and a bad Queen.  Then later when Jisa 
> and Trev get married Van seems to think that she'll make a great 
> queen...any thoughts?

If she was heir, she would probably be ruling ALONE.  Empathy is not 
a good thing to have if you don't have someone to keep you 'on an 
even keel'.  As Queen, and alone, it would not have been a good 
situation, but with Trev as King, she would have that even keel to 
keep her focus on.  Her empathy would be an asset then since she 
would not be the only one to make decisions; she would have to come 
up with LOGICAL reasons for doing something rather than letting 
someone's emotions make the decision for her.

Just my .02
Sheri

Sheri Graber Rector roseleaf-+AT+-prairie.lakes.com,  bookluvr-+AT+-prairie.lakes.com
http://prairie.lakes.com/~roseleaf/fibro/index.html
Fibromyalgia and Chronic Fatigue Resources Site

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 03:51:03 +0000
From: bookluvr-+AT+-prairie.lakes.com
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Talia's Attempt on Her Life
Message-ID: <199712050952.DAA31457-+AT+-Prairie.Lakes.com>

> I don't believe she attempted to tae her own life! I just believe she
> thought there was no hope and followed accordingly

The main reason for suicide is that the person involved sees no way 
out and no hope of things ever getting any better. 

>. If you were in a
> situation were there seemed no chance of survival and sent out a message
> like she did would you be attempting to take your own life?

Yes, she was:
!.  trying to avoid more torture
2. avoiding the possibility they would get military/political secrets 
from her through more torture
3. If people DID try to rescue her, some would undoubtably be killed.
(no one had any way of knowing that the companions would help)
If she was dead, there would be no attempted rescue; She expected to 
be killed eventually, but maybe not before someone decided to rescue 
her. (I know the arrow said 'no rescue', but she is Queen's Own!  
SOMEONE would probably tried to go in and get her out... even against 
orders)

> I believe that
> wehn you are attempting to take you own life it is by your own choice.

Most times, you see no choice...  It seems like the ONLY choice.

> Talia had no choice in her situation. For those of you who believe she
> tried, I think it was more a matter of desperation, but then I can not know
> since I didn't write the book. What I think and what was may be two
> entiraly different things!
> Jeff Aguiar wrote:

>From a christian standpoint, suicide is wrong 100% of the time.
If you're dying, or are being slowly killed (tortured), it MAY be 
another matter entirely.  I see her using the argonal to make sure 
that Valdemar was protected; She knew things that Ancar would have
LOVED to know, if he had just thought to ask when he had broken her.
She wanted to avoid that possiblity, only one way to do that... die 
first.

I personally do not think that suicide is an answer to the problems 
of this world.  I do, however, understand the suicidal mindset 
because of past experience.  What I have said above, is how things 
seemed to me, others may have differing viewpoints and opinions.

Sheri
Sheri Graber Rector roseleaf-+AT+-prairie.lakes.com,  bookluvr-+AT+-prairie.lakes.com
http://prairie.lakes.com/~roseleaf/fibro/index.html
Fibromyalgia and Chronic Fatigue Resources Site

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 12:17:44 +0100
From: GrobuHit-+AT+-t-online.de (M. Grob u. S. Hitzler)
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Braid
Message-ID: <m0xdvlQ-0003XGC-+AT+-fwd14.btx.dtag.de>

>I wish Misty would write a hetero life-bond that had the
>depth of development and not just the "Oh, boy meets girl falls in love 
>they of course lifebond."

Hey, what about Kero and whatshisname? (Can't look it up cause I lent the book 
to my sister to get her hooked, too. *nasty grin*) I thought the development of 
this relationship was excellently portrayed. Kero didn't (still doesn't?) want 
to accept the fact it is a lifebond. 

>The Last Straw

Thanks for the address. I owe you one. 
Too bad that some stupid ********** (insert your own favourite) has to ruin it 
all for us. I hope they'll catch him and put him away for the rest of HIS life!


>Tayledras / Elves thing

a) Apart from their looks and the magic I thought the Tayledras were more some 
kind of Native American. But the similarities to Elves are convincing. Maybe 
they are a mixture of both.
b) Why is anything in fantasy compared to Tolkien? Flame me for it, but I didn't 
like his Lord of the Rings. In fact, I gave up after the first book and I don't 
think that I will run out of other books I'd rather read in this lifetime so 
that I could finish the rest of LotR-stuff. BTW it just isn't fair to compare 
anybody to someone considered a God / Goddess of Fantasy Writers. For ex. any 
female writer is compared to Marion Zimmer Bradley regardless of her style and 
the type of her story. It's just because MZB is a well-known authoress and her 
name is to give some prestige to an unknown. 
What I wanted to say in respect to the Re:, Tolkien made up his type of elves 
but he wasn't the one to invent them. There have been so many authors to use 
elves and to give them their individual point of view, e.g. Tad Williams 
(Memory, Sorrow and Thorn). According to their description they are closer to 
the Tayledras as Tolkien's elves.

>I guess what I am trying to say is that to some (most?  all i know is me
>and my friends, family, etc.)  heterosexual male, seeing two men kissing
>is gross (although, note that lesbians are attractive to many men...even,
>I admit, me.) 

I am a heterosexual woman and I don't think kissing is gross no matter who 
kisses who. As long as one of the sexual partners isn't a child I don't care. 
And speaking of lesbians being attractive to many men: I think a gay couple is 
more attractive to me than a man s****ing a woman. And I tell you something 
else: I like gays. There hasn't been one to sexually offend me. So there.
And Robert is right: if we were more used to seeing (reading about etc.) 
homosexual couples no one would take offence apart from some very strict 
moralists. But those can't be helped. Let's hope they will die out.

Zhai'helleva
Shantaya Autumnleaf




------------------------------

End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1418
**********************************