MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1420

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Crying
	by SongHawk <songhawk-+AT+-earthlink.net>
  2) Re: movies v.books/mistymovie/interspecies
	by SongHawk <songhawk-+AT+-earthlink.net>
  3) Re: Talia's Attempt on Her Life
	by SongHawk <songhawk-+AT+-earthlink.net>
  4) Talia/homosexuality
	by Jennie Specie <origami-+AT+-gnv.fdt.net>
  5) Briad
	by dprono-+AT+-planet.eon.net
  6) Re: Casting, Stormwarning  and Black Gryphon series
	by "Kathy" <rlweidem-+AT+-alpha.delta.edu>
  7) Re: Sexuality
	by JEatonM <JEatonM-+AT+-aol.com>
  8) Re: Sexuality
	by JEatonM <JEatonM-+AT+-aol.com>
  9) Re: Shay'a'chern
	by JEatonM <JEatonM-+AT+-aol.com>
 10) Re: Mercedes-Lackey vs. Misty?
	by SamanthaMS <SamanthaMS-+AT+-aol.com>
 11) Re: S & S
	by Shanta Martin <smartin-+AT+-ultiweb.com>
 12) braid
	by "Bradley H. Martin" <afn62607-+AT+-afn.org>
 13) Braid: casting/tayledras/magic/lifebonds
	by GodesCarla <GodesCarla-+AT+-aol.com>
 14) Attn all - Misty art auction!
	by "Mark Severson" <markttz-+AT+-eonet.com>
 15) Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 1419
	by "Lady Summersunshine" <ladyofthesummer-+AT+-hotmail.com>
 16) Re: Sexuality
	by prince_ravnos-+AT+-juno.com (James B Collar)
 17) Various Topics
	by seltan-+AT+-qinet.net
 18) Re: S & S
	by Shanta Martin <smartin-+AT+-ultiweb.com>
 19) Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 1419
	by Greg Wooledge <wooledge-+AT+-kellnet.com>
 20) Homosexuality--My take on it...
	by "Jeff Aguiar" <roman_87-+AT+-hotmail.com>
 21) Re: Braid
	by "Raven Darkblade" <abbykat-+AT+-hotmail.com>
 22) Re: Briad
	by Riyan699 <Riyan699-+AT+-aol.com>
 23) Filk Question
	by RPierce137 <RPierce137-+AT+-aol.com>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 15:36:48 -0800
From: SongHawk <songhawk-+AT+-earthlink.net>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Crying
Message-ID: <3488900F.D7210B8A-+AT+-earthlink.net>

I can see what you mean! If I ahdn't read the other series first and ahd
known that Vanyel and Stef would get back together I probably would have
felt the same way! But since I did read those books first, all I could do
was cry.

Sal Waterfall wrote:

> <waves at everyone>
>
> I don't know about anyone else, but the ending of Magic's Price didn't
> make me cry so much as anger me...I did like it (once I got to the
> *very* end in the Forest of Sorrows), but when I learned Vanyel actually
> had died I almost threw the book down and refused to read any more. I
> didn't, of course, but it wrenched my heart. Learning Stef probably
> spent the rest of his life alone didn't help either...It just hurt to
> know that Van and Stef were robbed of all that time together.
>
> Then again, I think spending close to 700 years (not sure on that
> figure, feel free to hurt me <giggle>) together makes up for it. :)
>
> See you in the Sequels,
> Sal
>
> (o fork of a daughter, aren't I a brave one? four months on this list
> and *now* I post? <giggle>)



--


 "Peace is when time doesn't
 matter as it passes by."

  Maria Schnell



------------------------------

Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 15:45:10 -0800
From: SongHawk <songhawk-+AT+-earthlink.net>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: movies v.books/mistymovie/interspecies
Message-ID: <34889206.46006FC2-+AT+-earthlink.net>




> <As for Misty, I think it would be a tragedy to relegate these wonderful
> books to saturday morning cartoons, but a serious movie, if done by the
> right actors/directors/etc could work someday...IF Misty had charge of
> writing the screenplay, of course...>

I'm not really sure about a movie of any of her books. For me I always imagine
the charcters in the book a certain way. There voices a certain depth. It would
sort of poil this image for me because the movie, show, cartoon, whatever
couldn't live up to my imagination and indeed it would in a way sort of ruin my
enjoyment of the books.

--


 "Peace is when time doesn't
 matter as it passes by."

  Maria Schnell



------------------------------

Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 15:57:05 -0800
From: SongHawk <songhawk-+AT+-earthlink.net>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Talia's Attempt on Her Life
Message-ID: <348894D0.F4ACC18-+AT+-earthlink.net>

True. I'm now divided as I said in my last message. To me it seams more like
Hulda and Ancar mudered her because it was becasue of them that she tried to take
her own life. In a way they forced her towards suicidal and that seems like
murder to me. Please correct me if  I'm wrong!

K.S. wrote:

> > I don't believe she attempted to tae her own life! I just believe she
> > thought there was no hope and followed accordingly. If you were in a
> > situation were there seemed no chance of survival and sent out a message
> > like she did would you be attempting to take your own life? I believe that
> > wehn you are attempting to take you own life it is by your own choice.
> > Talia had no choice in her situation. For those of you who believe she
> > tried, I think it was more a matter of desperation, but then I can not know
> > since I didn't write the book. What I think and what was may be two
> > entiraly different things!
>
> But she did have a choice.  She could've stayed and gotten tortured by
> Ancar & Hulda some more.  Granted, that's not a very cheerful option, and
> in her case I would probably do what she did.  I think she did indeed try
> to kill herself.  She sent the arrow meaning there was no hope for her.



--


 "Peace is when time doesn't
 matter as it passes by."

  Maria Schnell



------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 19:37:45 -0500 (EST)
From: Jennie Specie <origami-+AT+-gnv.fdt.net>
To: Mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Talia/homosexuality
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.971205191802.28548B-100000-+AT+-yoda.fdt.net>


Re: Talia being suicidal
I always thought that suicide was the act of taking your own life,
regardless of the reasons.  Not like a car accident, that would be
called "accident".  I mean, as in doing something that you know will
end your life.  We all know that we can not fly, so jumping off of a
10 story building is suicide.  That sort of thing.  She knew the argonel
would kill her, regardless of whether Ancar and his goons would.  It
was yes I believe a case of saving Valemar ("The needs of the many
outweigh the needs of the few")but she still attempted to commit
suicide.  Some of us attempt suicide (or think about attempting suicide)
because we can not see a way out of problems.  Well, she not only
couldn't see a way out, there WAS no way out.  Other than the unheardof
abilities of the Companions, which wasn't an option at the time.  

re:homosexual behavior
I come from a small town type family in the south, and well, we didn't
talk about sex anyway, one way or the other.  I have family members who
tend to look down on gay people, but my mom does have friends who are.
But, we didn't talk bout sex,(barely even to the point of explaining
things to us kids)and it was kind of an embarrassed subject when we 
HAD to talk about things.  So, for most of my life, I tend to avert my
eyes when confronted with any form of sex scene, whether it be male or
female.  I have no problems with male/male or fem/fem, but I grew up
learning that it was an Untouched Subject.

I agree with whoever said they couldn't see Callisto as Kero.  I do also
agree that whoever was to get cast in these roles would probably have to
be newcomers, cause we see actors in certain stereotypes, despite their
best efforts not to be cast stereotypically.  (I mean, who DOESNT think of
Bill and Ted when they think of Keanu Reeves?)
Oh, I wanted to clarify my complaint about the many postings from the same
people: I do not complain about several posts if they're longer than "yep,
I agree with so-and-so" or "what about (pick a name) for the role of (pick
a name)?"  I DID catch the 23 posts in 3 hrs...I had gone out of town for
a couple of days and regretted not being able to check my email...I do NOT
have a complaint (someone mentioned the time zone problem) with posts in
the same day.  :)  It was the length that I was commenting on.  I know of
a few ppl on here who tend to write one line on each page.  
Anyway, i'm babbling...
*wave*
Jennie



------------------------------

Date: 	Fri, 05 Dec 1997 17:51:56 -0800
From: dprono-+AT+-planet.eon.net
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Briad
Message-ID: <3488AFBC.2217-+AT+-planet.eon.net>

Heyla Listsibs!!
	Well, I had 79 messages to plow through today... PLEASE DO NOT 
SEND ONE LINERS OR FIVE SEPERATE MESSAGES!!!!!!!  I like getting mail, 
but  not that much. 

Sexuality:
	I am as straight as an arrow, and I dont care a whitt about who 
is kissing who. If two people love eachother, let them show their 
affection. I also agree with Cennydd-kissing is boring. If your not the 
one kissing, then why 'watch' it? (Of course, if your kissing, you cant 
exactly WATCH....)

Talia's Suicide attempt:
	Talia tried to commit suicide to spare herself pain. If you 
recall, Ancar and Hulda crushed her feet as well as tortured her in many 
other ways. At that point, I dont think that she was thinking too 
clearly-who can when they're in extrem pain? I think tht she just wnted 
to escape it all...

Casting:
	NOT Leo Dicprio as Van... not in a million years. Maybe as Stef, 
but he just dosent have what it takes to be Van. He looks... well... just 
too BOYISH. Too cute and cuddily and just not angelicly beautiful. s for 
the Xena people... I dont hve that chanell, so I cant make a judgement 
call... Lucky you!!

Someone mentioned the fact that they were looking for the S&S books- I 
heard from QO that there is an anthology comming out in '98 with ll the 
Tarma aand Kethry stories in it called Oathblood or something. And I'm 
not kidding... REALLY!!! 

	Yvonne Shadowshape, Chosen by Korla, bonded to Chiti
	Goddess of Kelpies, Selkies, and other Water-Borne
	Knight of Fluff (the origonal)

ps. I hve a funky a key tonight which accounts for the lack of em. 
Sorry!! :)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 20:17:07 -0000
From: "Kathy" <rlweidem-+AT+-alpha.delta.edu>
To: <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Casting, Stormwarning  and Black Gryphon series
Message-ID: <9712060115.AA10867-+AT+-alpha.delta.edu>

Excuse me for being slow, I don't mean to be one of those people who seems
to respond to mail without reading all of it first, but I'm REALLY behind.

I just wanted to say that Leo DiCaprio would make a good Van if he dyed his
hair black and was a little taller (I always imagined Van as tall *s*) Sean
Connerey wouldn't be a good Witren though. He just doesn't fit my image -
but then He's one of my favorite actors and I hated Witren from the minute
he appeared in MPawn (my favorite book).

I don't want to offend anyone, but I just wanted to know if anyone else
shared my thoughts on the Stormwarning and Black Gryphon series. Let me say
first that the LHM are my favorites, followed by AotQ. It just seems to me
that the Storm & Gryphon series were kindof...forced. They just didn't flow
like the rest did. Maybe it's just me (I'm very picky about what I read
*s*) And the last AotQ book (I can't think of the name offhand *embarressed
smile*) didn't seem as smooth or seamless either. Anyway, sorry, and I'd
like to hear your thoughts!

Wind to thy Wings, 
Fallen Angel~~~
Guardian of Alicorns & Great Cats

"If you can't be good, be good at it!" ~~~Jerry V.   ;)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 20:40:45 EST
From: JEatonM <JEatonM-+AT+-aol.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Sexuality
Message-ID: <ba2ba6bc.3488ad20-+AT+-aol.com>

In a message dated 97-12-05 04:13:39 EST, you write:

<<   Yes, some people are Christian.  What of it?  They cannot dictate what
 any non-Christian does simply because it makes them uncomfortable.
 Personally, I find about 80% of PDA offensive, but I'm not pushing to make it
 illegal.
  >>
Also, Christianity has very little to do with it.  The real point is, most
people are bigoted.  There is great debate as to wheter or not Christianity
really condems homosexuality.  King James was notoriously homophobic, so the
homosexual references in the Bible (of which there are only three) are
somewhat suspect, as every translation we use now has its roots in the KJV.  I
could also point out that never once does Christ mention homosexuality as a
sin, though he mentions OTHER things, such as adultery, that many a
fundamentalist Christian is guilty of.  There are many good Christians who
either ARE or accept gay people.  

Again, off topic...but

John E. Morris

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 20:34:47 EST
From: JEatonM <JEatonM-+AT+-aol.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Sexuality
Message-ID: <ac3436b9.3488abb9-+AT+-aol.com>

In a message dated 97-12-05 03:28:15 EST, you write:

<< guess what I am trying to say is that to some (most?  all i know is me
 and my friends, family, etc.)  heterosexual male, seeing two men kissing
 is gross (although, note that lesbians are attractive to many men...even,
 I admit, me.)  I can't say what heterosexual women think, but I know most
 girls i've known say it is gross.  Now, do homosexuals think it is gross
 to see a man kiss a woman? >>

Frankly, I think that blatant public displays of affection are in poor taste,
period.  However, I'm sorry that you and others seem to think that it is
gross.  It isn't gross - it just is.  I don't find a man and a woman kissing
"gross", nor do I find straight couples gross.  The idea that two men kissing
is gross comes from the fact that most straight guys are insecure in their
masculinity.  Somewhere the idea popped up that you have to sleep with a lot
of women to be a real man, and the true ideals of masculinity got lost
somewhere, so most guys think that gay people can't be real men and are
therfore disdainful to and uncomfortable around gay people. (This isn't the
case, by the way - I challenge you to try to outdo me in the "masculine" areas
- you know, like baseball, carpentry, beer drinking, etc.)

I know that was a little off topic, and I apologize.  I think that anything
that encourages tolerance and understanding is good.

John E. Morris

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 20:36:34 EST
From: JEatonM <JEatonM-+AT+-aol.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Shay'a'chern
Message-ID: <78f2e73a.3488ac24-+AT+-aol.com>

In a message dated 97-12-05 03:36:17 EST, you write:

<< , actually it translates as "one whose lover is *like* oneself".
 "One who loves oneself" would be "narcissist"... <g> >>
 
(redfaced) - yeah, that's what I meant - somewhere I lost a word in the
typing...leave me alone and go pick up bloody flesh<G>

John E. Morris

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 21:26:21 EST
From: SamanthaMS <SamanthaMS-+AT+-aol.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Mercedes-Lackey vs. Misty?
Message-ID: <1fa0b35b.3488b7d1-+AT+-aol.com>

"Which actor would you choose to be Vanyel? The other characters?'' 
Sorry about paraphrasing the question but I lost the mail. I think the guy who
plays Angel on Buffy the  Vampire Slayer would be great as either Van or maybe
Neeve. The girl who plays Willow might make a good Talia. Rosie O'Donell might
make a good Mistress Gaytha (did I get the name right?).    Samantha

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 22:14:02 -0500
From: Shanta Martin <smartin-+AT+-ultiweb.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: S & S
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19971205221402.006c86f4-+AT+-internet_link>

At 05:21 AM 12/5/97 GMT, you wrote:
>Heyla Listsibs,
>	Yes, I have returned (doubt if you even missed me, but that's beside the 
>point).  The actual reason for my post is that I was wondering if any of 
>you oh so gracious listsibs have any extra Sword & Sorcerer (sp.?) books 
>that have Misty's works in them.  I am having trouble locating any of her 
>earlier works, and am dying to read about Tarma & Keth's  earlier 
>adventures.  If anyone has any suggestions feel free to respond privately 
>at Mysttree-+AT+-phantomreality.com

---End Quoted Section---

The book that is supposed to come out will be called "Oathbound" and should
be coming out in '89.  It will contain all the short stories and a few
other things is what I think I read.  Only problem is that I think that
they said that it was coming out in paperback.  I would like to see it in
hardcover!!!!!!!

Wind To Thy Wings

  Shadowdancer

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 23:20:26 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bradley H. Martin" <afn62607-+AT+-afn.org>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: braid
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.95.971205225841.120391A-100000-+AT+-freenet2.afn.org>

Hi everyone, it's blank, the artist formally known as _________. Ha-ha-ha
Actually I just wanted to respond really quickly to a couple of things.

First as to the actor for Vanyel thingie, why does it have to be a man?  I
think a woman would do the job of portraying a tough but beautiful person
admirably.  Can't think of one now, I'll leave that to y'all.

Now as to the whole sexuality thing. I agree with Cenydd(sp?) (sorry Mr Hyde
to lazy to go back and check posts). This is a great conversation.  I am a
heterosexual female with um one homosexual male friend and I don't know if I
have any gay(sorry homosexual is just a pain to type) female friends.  There
the history is out of the way. I don't mind seeing any one male or female
kiss anyone male or female.  In fact I love to see people kiss and hug
because they care about each other.  It's better than seeing them argue or
fight.  If I can kiss my husband in public then everyone can kiss their
choice in public.  That's just fair (I know, I know, the world is not a fair
place. I belive we should TRY to make it one).  I don't agree to a great
deal of PDA.  That's just private.  People, older folks especially are
uncomfortable with it and I think the oldsters deserve a little respect.  I
really enjoy reading or just learning about gays because I think that the
world just needs more exposure.  I love Ellen (cringe, do not flay me alive,
it's the only tv show I watch except for Sesame Street).  I would also like
to point out that I am a Christian and (pardon me) yes! down with King James

Also I would like to say that I love Narnia too.  In fact, I can get
downright nostalgic about my oldest and most beloved friends, JRR Tolkien
and CS Lewis.

Blessed be to all, from she who lurks
Smokeshadow formerly known as _____________

PS after much soulsearching I have found my use-name. How do y'all like it? 





------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 23:51:11 EST
From: GodesCarla <GodesCarla-+AT+-aol.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Braid: casting/tayledras/magic/lifebonds
Message-ID: <11546009.3488d9c2-+AT+-aol.com>

In a message dated 97-12-05 21:12:29 EST, you write:
rlweidem said:
<< And the last AotQ book (I can't think of the name offhand *embarressed
 smile*) didn't seem as smooth or seamless either >>
The last one was Arrow's Fall, and I thought it was GREAT. 

Melissa said:
<<In AotQ:
Pg 121, Davan is describing the history of Valdemar to Talia's class:
"For a while Baron Valdemar was able to at least protect his own people
from the King; that was because he was a wizard as well as a Baron, and
his lady was a sorceress - old magic, the kind that's gone now, not
Herald's magic.">>
Yes, but remember, they only had problems talking about it in the present.
Told as history, as it says, "old magic, the kind that's gone now" it was
perfectly possible to talk about it. As long as it was in the PAST.

Dax said:
<<Well, I think that proves my point....Talaydras are closet Elves.....which
means.....
that Elspeth and Darkwind are different species!!!!!>>
To tell you the truth, I know nothing about elves. But just because Misty MAY
have based some of the Tayledras on elves does not mean they are elves. It is
quite clear that they are humans.
and:
<<Talaydras are always very good unless they are very bad....Elves are Seelie
or Unseelie>>
Okay, I'm not going to try to prove you wrong this time, I really am
interested. I have not read of any BAD Tayledras. I haven't read all of the
Velgarth series, but I have read most of it. Can I have an example?

Heartspring wrote (sorry, I don't have a direct quote) that he thought Leo
DiCaprio would be good for Van, but he's not quite it. He just doesn't have
the angelic beauty ( don't get me wrong, he's very handsome)that Van is
supposed to have...now, as Stefen, he might do VERY well...the slight build
and all. Oh, and a lot of people have been saying that they imagined Van is
tall...remember, it says that Van did NOT inherit his father's height as all
of his brothers did. He was the small one.

Dax said:
<<Side note...Why is it that only the gay/lesbian couples
survive the demise of their Life-bonded? Van and Tylendel, Stef and Van,
Sherry
and Whats-her-name>>
Van survived 'cause he HAD to...it was destiny. Keren (AoTQ) survived Ylsa's
death because of two things: 1. her bond with her twin brother and 2. Because
Sherrill was there, and became her next life-bonded.

Angie wrote:
<<I also noticed that Van looked seriously like Taran from Lloyd
Alexander's Prydain Chronicles. Seriously.>>
YES!! I totally agree. In a really close way.
and:
<<On the subject of who to play Vanyel in a movie version, I still vote for
Johnny Depp. He really is a phenomenal actor, and if anybody questions his
beauty they should see Don Juan DeMarco again.>>
Yeah, I agree with you again...

Shantaya Autumnleaf said:
<< Apart from their looks and the magic I thought the Tayledras were more some
kind of Native American.>>
I htink so too, but I thought that their looks were kinda the same...y'know,
the stereotypical golden-brown skin and long, flowing hair. And the connection
that many Native Americans had to the land, as did the Tayledras.

Autumnwing

PS- To any and all: please don't take my points as attacks...I just like
debates! : )

Oh, and for all of you still with the Talia-was-daydreaming-bit: I stand
corrected!!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 21:21:36 -0600
From: "Mark Severson" <markttz-+AT+-eonet.com>
To: <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: Attn all - Misty art auction!
Message-ID: <01bd01f6$0f712da0$0f5181ce-+AT+-markttz.eonet.com>

Greetings all,

   I would like to call to your attention the fact that an original piece of
art by Misty is currently being auctioned via email at www.firebirdarts.com
If I don't have the address listed correctly it is at Firebird Music.   This
is the first of hopefully will be many pieces by her and her husband which
will be auctioned off to help raise funds for a charity that she supports.
   Considering that this group enjoys her books I thought you might like to
know about the auction and possibly bid on the piece.  Currently the first
auction was scheduled to close on Dec 8 but Teri sent me an email telling me
mine was the first bid and it be extend.  Come on folks lets see what we can
do!
    Go check it out.  Lets see if we can get something going here.

    Time for this zombie to back to sleep.  Good Luck to all of you and I
wish you all the best during the Holidays - however you celebrate them.
Mark the tax zombie


------------------------------

Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 08:01:11 GMT
From: "Lady Summersunshine" <ladyofthesummer-+AT+-hotmail.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 1419
Message-ID: <19971206080112.29381.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com>


Melissa said:
>I've found some inconsistencies in how people in Valdemar regard magic.
>
>As I understand it, up until Elspeth's introduction to real magic
>(versus mind-magic), it was near to impossible for anyone in Valdemar 
to
>talk about, let alone believe that it existed.  And if it was brought 
to
>anyone's attention, they would gradually forget about the conversation
>or remember it in a different context (as in dealing with something 
more
>_real_ to them, like Heraldic gifts).  But I've found some passages 
that
>are disturbing to this premise.
<snip really good text evd>
>Anybody have any thoughts on this?
 
	IIRC, it was possible for people in Valdemar to believe in real magic 
as long as they thought about it in the past and not as something that 
currently existed, although even then it was muddled somewhat(songs 
containing only vague references).  The only passage I can think of that 
doesn't quite fit with this is the truth spell...

	All this discussion on Talias (possible) suicide attempt, which btw I 
believe was truly as suicide attempt, has gotten me to thinking about 
how the Companions interfered to save her.  Now, I don't know if it's 
just me, but I never really thought about how strange it was that the 
Companions should bread a code they'd been using for who-knows-how-long 
just to save one woman, even with the threat of Orthatllen.  I was 
thinking it might also have to do with the fact that she was 
instrumental in persuading Kero to join Valdemar's fight against Ancar.  
Of course, it is late and I may just be having wandering thoughts...

	And last, also probably least, IMHO, I don't care how long sigs are...I 
especially like to read the quotes people have chosen and the titles 
everyone has.

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Lady of the SummerSunShine(aka Lisa)
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/4474
Archivst of Fluff and keeper of the Official Webpage of the 
Fluffian Order:  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/4991
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*


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Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 02:13:29 -0600
From: prince_ravnos-+AT+-juno.com (James B Collar)
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Sexuality
Message-ID: <19971206.021329.14606.2.Prince_Ravnos-+AT+-juno.com>


On Sat, 6 Dec 1997 02:17:00 GMT JEatonM <JEatonM-+AT+-aol.com> writes:
>In a message dated 97-12-05 04:13:39 EST, you write:
>
><<   Yes, some people are Christian.  What of it?  They cannot dictate 
>what
> any non-Christian does simply because it makes them uncomfortable.
> Personally, I find about 80% of PDA offensive, but I'm not pushing to 
>make it
> illegal.
>  >>
>Also, Christianity has very little to do with it.  The real point is, 
>most
>people are bigoted.  There is great debate as to wheter or not 
>Christianity
>really condems homosexuality.  King James was notoriously homophobic, 
>so the
>homosexual references in the Bible (of which there are only three) are
>somewhat suspect, as every translation we use now has its roots in the 
>KJV.  I
>could also point out that never once does Christ mention homosexuality 
>as a
>sin, though he mentions OTHER things, such as adultery, that many a
>fundamentalist Christian is guilty of.  There are many good Christians 
>who
>either ARE or accept gay people.  
>
>Again, off topic...but
>
>John E. Morris
>

Yeah, that sounds true..but the point I was trying to make is that if you
are gay, I do not care, nor will I yell, "Sinner! Sinner!  You're going
to Hell!"  BTW, anybody hear of Fred Phelps?  He is a local preacher
(Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka, KS, he was even on 20/20 about two
years ago) that is annoying because if you even think of doing anything
even remotely homosexual he will be at your door (or your church if you
attend one!)  My girlfriend's (she's a girl, and she's my friend...only
in my dreams is she my "girlfriend:)  preacher wrote a editorial saying
basically God does not hate sinners, God hates sin, the idea being god
does not hate homsexuals, he hates homosexuality,  and Fred was at their
church blocking the door with his highly offensive "god hates f**s" 
"Topeka=Sodom City" (That one is funny, it show a guy bent over and
another guy behind him, just a sillohette (sp!) but still is obvious.  I
hate Fred because I see eight year old children holding a sign that says
"Diana--Royal Whore" and stuff... an eight year old being taught to
hate...Fred is being influenced by Satan, once in chuch we were
discussing the meaning of "Anti-Christ" being someone who teaches what
sounds like the word of God, and truly seems to be...but isn't...
everyone agreed...Fred Phelps is an Anti-Christ) signs  with Bible verses
that say homesexuals will go to hell (I looked a few up...I see no
connection to homosexuality in any of them)

Anyway, back to what I was trying to say...I have no problems with
homosexuals, it is just being that I am heterosexual male, I don't like
the thought of being with another man or seeing men together sexually.  I
hope you all understand my point now...

One more thing, my church is of the "God does not hate homosexuals, God
hates homosexuality"  persuasion...me myself, I cannot tell you what God
thinks, I am not a Prophet, but I can tell you that the Bible says God
loves everybody (except Sodom and Gomorrah (sp?) but that was more than
just homosexuality, I believe homosexuality was a small little thing
there that those who would point out that God hates YOU because you are
homosexual blew out of proportion and turned it into the ultimate crime
that destroyed the city...which it wasn't.
"You want to know if I am an ace or a joker?
 The answer is yes."  -- The Great and Powerful Turtle
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Prince Ravnos
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/3748

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 18:55:12 +0800
From: seltan-+AT+-qinet.net
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Various Topics
Message-ID: <2.2.32.19971206105512.00686ea0-+AT+-qinet.net>

I've noticed the re-incarnation of the casting thread... Something to add,
actually, it's a quote I read somewhere whose source I can't remember: 

"It is a rare dramatization that is a match for its book. This is because
the story is not the one in the book, but one that is partly the author's
words and partly the story the reader creates in his mind from the author's
pieces."

=&=

Tayledras like Elves!? Awwww... Does this mean Elspeth's not going to have
any "kids like herself?" (*very* loosely quoted)

=&=

Victory! In July I handed my sister the 3 Diana Tregarde books, she's read
them and is now asking for the LHM trilogy! 
*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*
*              Selene T.                  *
*  selly-+AT+-geocities.com|seltan-+AT+-qinet.net   *
*  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8121/  *
*            ICQ UIN: 5161924             *
*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*


------------------------------

Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 07:34:22 -0500
From: Shanta Martin <smartin-+AT+-ultiweb.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: S & S
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19971206073422.006a8200-+AT+-internet_link>

At 04:11 AM 12/6/97 GMT, you wrote:
>
>The book that is supposed to come out will be called "Oathbound" and should
>be coming out in '89.  

---End Quoted Sectoin---


OOps did I say '89?   I mean '98.   Sorry for my dyslexic (sp?) fingers.

Wind To Thy Wings

  Shadowdancer


------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 08:46:43 -0500
From: Greg Wooledge <wooledge-+AT+-kellnet.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 1419
Message-ID: <19971206084643.17639-+AT+-phoenix.local>

Lady Summersunshine (ladyofthesummer-+AT+-hotmail.com) wrote:

> Now, I don't know if it's 
> just me, but I never really thought about how strange it was that the 
> Companions should bread a code they'd been using for who-knows-how-long 
> just to save one woman, even with the threat of Orthatllen.  I was 
> thinking it might also have to do with the fact that she was 
> instrumental in persuading Kero to join Valdemar's fight against Ancar.  
> Of course, it is late and I may just be having wandering thoughts...

Also, remember that she goes on to play a vital role in the peace treaty
between Valdemar and Karse, which brings Karal into Valdemar, which is
important to saving the world from the Storms. ;-)

We don't know how much the Companions know about the future -- I
suspect that they only have vague "hunches" and dream-like premonitions,
personally.  In any event, though, it's clear that they have a certain
amount of foreknowledge, and will go to extreme measures to bring key
people into the right place at the right time.

-- 
# Greg Wooledge                         # "Daddy, why do those people have to
# wooledge-+AT+-kellnet.com                  #   use Microsoft Windows?"
# http://kellnet.com/wooledge/main.html # "Don't stare, son; it's not polite."
#        --  Crack RC5-64 now! http://www.distributed.net/rc5/  --

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 14:50:51 EST
From: "Jeff Aguiar" <roman_87-+AT+-hotmail.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Homosexuality--My take on it...
Message-ID: <19971206195051.4130.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com>

Ye Gods!!!  It took me about an hour to scroll through all of those 
posts...Oi...It's my fault though--I shorted my time yesterday and 
didn't make it through that batch until today...Yeeesh...

First I would like to absolve my self from the implication of me saying 
this, because I do not recall saying it (I'm not angry at Sheri for 
catching my name on the end, just making sure everyone knows I didn't 
say it):

>> Jeff Aguiar wrote:
>
>>From a christian standpoint, suicide is wrong 100% of the time.
>If you're dying, or are being slowly killed (tortured), it MAY be 
>another matter entirely.  I see her using the argonal to make sure 
>that Valdemar was protected; She knew things that Ancar would have
>LOVED to know, if he had just thought to ask when he had broken her.
>She wanted to avoid that possiblity, only one way to do that... die 
>first.

I really don't recall saying this...I will check to see if I did, but 
for the time being, I did not say this...

Ahh, what a lovely conversation we have sparked and I mean that...These 
are the kinds of conversations I like to have with people who have 
questions about homosexuality and other related topics.  First, I am not 
Christian, which absolves me of any responsibility to God or the Bible 
(I know that this may offend some Christians out there, but I hope you 
will understand that quoting lines from the Bible will do nothing to me 
since I hold no value in it).  I respect Christianity and the basic 
values (Ten Commandments) that have been set forth by God because they 
are values that I believe transcend all religions (except 
one--Satanism--something I am vehemently against).  
Anyway (that was just the preface to the bulk of what I'm going to 
say---bear with me now), I believe that humans are VERY sexual beings 
and that people will do what they want to do.  Personally, I don't think 
homosexuality is a choice--there are documented genetic differences 
between "homosexual" men and "heterosexual" men. Different sections of 
the brain in homosexual men are both larger and smaller than 
heterosexual men.  I don't find any sort of sex [except, as it was 
mentioned before, sex with children and animals (sorry *blush* didn't 
really mean to go there)] disgusting or immoral as long as there are two 
(or more) CONSENTING adults...CONSENT is the key word.  I don't have any 
right to tell anyone what they should do and they don't have any right 
to tell me what I need to do.  I believe in the innate goodness of man 
and hope that wins in every case where there is a crisis.  

Along the lines of homosexuality's acceptance, it is because of the 
changes that our society has gone through.  In Victorian society, it 
was, though not commonly spoken of over tea, acceptable for a woman to 
have "special friends" of women when their household had visitors (one 
must understand that visitors during the time stayed anywhere from one 
month to six months in one stint).  Men, during Mozart's time, were 
allowed to have clandestine lovers...Many poets from the romantic era 
and before were theorized to have lovers of the same sex (I say 
theorized and mean "had" because that's all that history is--a theory) 
including Shakespeare (sonnetevd) and W.H. Auden (Hymn to St. Cecilia 
evd) and many, I repeat, many Greeks and Romans indulged in homosexual 
sex.  Churches, during the Middle Ages, were even documented to have 
married homosexual couples because the clergy were POSITIVE that it was 
for LOVE.  Homosexuals during that time lost all claims to land and 
property and, after marriage, were assured poverty-stricken existences 
for a long time.  Things have changed since time began.  People have 
changed.  Ideas have changed.  The most important thing that we remember 
is that we can't stop it from happening---only accept and bend where the 
wind blows.  The most rigid tree in a forest will be the first to falter 
and fall in a strong wind.  The tree that bends will undoubtedly live to 
weather another such storm.  

I accept that everyone has their own ideas about everything in life.  
Just understand that I only ask for the same.  *smile*

Thank you listsibs--this has been one of the more fulfilling moments in 
my existence...

Zhai'helleva,
Heartspring (with yet another diatribe)

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 12:28:38 PST
From: "Raven Darkblade" <abbykat-+AT+-hotmail.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Braid
Message-ID: <19971206202840.29741.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com>


<<<I wish Misty would write a hetero life-bond that had the depth of 
development and not just the "Oh, boy meets girl falls in love they of 
course lifebond.">>>

<<Hey, what about Kero and whatshisname? (Can't look it up cause I lent 
the book to my sister to get her hooked, too. *nasty grin*) I thought 
the development of this relationship was excellently portrayed. Kero 
didn't (still doesn't?) want to accept the fact it is a lifebond.>>

Whether or not they were actually lifebonded, does it matter? I thought 
the relationship was really well done--and it doesn't /have/ to be a 
lifebond. After all, they're supposed to be rare, right? And at that 
point in time, there were three other lifebonds--Keren and Sherrill, 
Talia and Dirk, and Selenay and Daren.

<<Tayledras / Elves thing
a) Apart from their looks and the magic I thought the Tayledras were 
more some  kind of Native American. But the similarities to Elves are 
convincing. Maybe they are a mixture of both.>>

It seems to me that it's the Shin'a'in are the ones who are based on 
Native Americans. And the Tayledras do remind me of elves--that explains 
why I like Darkwind so much. :)

<<b) Why is anything in fantasy compared to Tolkien? Flame me for it, 
but I didn't like his Lord of the Rings. In fact, I gave up after the 
first book and I don't think that I will run out of other books I'd 
rather read in this lifetime so that I could finish the rest of 
LotR-stuff. BTW it just isn't fair to compare anybody to someone 
considered a God / Goddess of Fantasy Writers.>>

I agree with this; Although Tolkien /was/ the first person to create his 
own fantasy world, that doesn't mean that everything should be like it. 
That would get incredibly boring and predictable. I don't even 
particularly like Tolkien (donning flameproof undies). I much prefer the 
type of elves portrayed in the Dragonlance and Forgotten Realms books.

As to the deal on sexuality--I live in the buckle of the Bible Belt, and 
have not really been exposed to anything but your average garden-variety 
heterosexuality. I've only known one homosexual person. But I liked him. 
He was a nice guy, and his sexual preference didn't bother me at all.

<<Hmmmm how bout Kiefer Sutherland for Jervis?>>
Jervis strikes me as much coarser, more brawny, than Kiefer is. I like 
him a lot, and wouldn't mind seeing him in some sort of role in Misty's 
stuff, but Jervis isn't it. Same goes for Sean Connery as Withen. He's 
too cultured to play that part.
Johnny Depp, I /think/, could play Van. I haven't seen anything with him 
in it since Ed Wood, so my memory is faulty. I don't know about Leonardo 
DiCaprio. Sometimes I think he looks good, and sometimes I don't.
Winona Ryder (as she was in Little Women) would make a good Talia.
As for Kero... the first thing I thought when I saw Callisto was that 
she was too thin/delicate/something to be as tough as she was made out 
to be. I don't see Kero looking like that.

Well, that's all for now, I guess.

Zha'hai'allav'a,
Raven Darkblade,
Holy Hand of the Goddess of Elves

abbykat-+AT+-hotmail.com
http://www.angelfire.com/ky/Ashke
http://dragonlance.justbecause.org

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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 19:43:43 EST
From: Riyan699 <Riyan699-+AT+-aol.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Briad
Message-ID: <4e79f5da.3489f145-+AT+-aol.com>

In a message dated 97-12-05 21:09:08 EST, you write:

<< NOT Leo Dicprio as Van... not in a million years. Maybe as Stef, 
 but he just dosent have what it takes to be Van. He looks... well... just 
 too BOYISH. Too cute and cuddily and just not angelicly beautiful.  >>

NOT angelically beautiful?  Dearie me, "Angel" is the first word that pops in
my head when i see Leo!!!  I think he'd be an excellent choice!  He doesn't
always look cutesie- have you seen the basketball diaries?  Anyways- I think
that Julia Roberts could be Melenna- and maybe Sigourney Weaver as Savil- what
say you?

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 23:06:28 EST
From: RPierce137 <RPierce137-+AT+-aol.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Filk Question
Message-ID: <206685a7.348a20c9-+AT+-aol.com>

In a message dated 97-12-05 05:06:39 EST, you write:

<< http://www.firebirdarts.com/ is a wonderful place! >>

  Hear, Hear!  I strongly suggest that anyone who hasn't bought any of the
Misty tapes to try one.  I'd suggest starting with Freedom, Flight, & Fantasy.
Or, if you want to start with a Valdemar tape, get Heralds, Harpers, & Havoc. 

   Who is a Filk fan?  What's everyone's favorite?

      Personally, I love Julia Ecklar and Heather Alexander.  They're tied for
my favorite singers.  Heather's old band, Phoenyx (A Celtic Rock band) created
the most incredible CD that I've ever heard.  They're still my favorite band.
     Anyone else?

    Robert

------------------------------

End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1420
**********************************