MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1423

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: stuff.....
	by SongHawk <songhawk-+AT+-earthlink.net>
  2) braid: Kero/Christmas/Music/List
	by "Lady Summersunshine" <ladyofthesummer-+AT+-hotmail.com>
  3) Re: stuff.....
	by "Rebecca McAllister" <becs71-+AT+-hotmail.com>
  4) Re: Casting
	by Mystique D <crd-+AT+-ziplink.net>
  5) Re: Braid
	by JEatonM <JEatonM-+AT+-aol.com>
  6) McCaffrey chat??
	by Don <lemke-+AT+-directcon.net>
  7) Re: Anne McCaffrey movie/interview
	by "Dawn Anderson" <anderbdm-+AT+-win.bright.net>
  8) Re: Gabby/Autrolicus (sp) and males in Misty's work
	by "Jeff Aguiar" <roman_87-+AT+-hotmail.com>
  9) Re: braid
	by Marv Watson <skywolf-+AT+-washington.sbceo.k12.ca.us>
 10) re: Gabby/Autrolicus (sp) and males in Misty's work
	by Ailsa Reid <areid-+AT+-brookes.ac.uk>
 11) gender portrayals
	by "Piper, Jackie" <Jackie.Piper-+AT+-HBCFIELD.honeywell.com>
 12) Re: Elves, Gabby/Xena, Filk, and some other stuff
	by GodesCarla <GodesCarla-+AT+-aol.com>
 13) Casting/Homosexuality/Request for Suggestions
	by "Piper, Jackie" <Jackie.Piper-+AT+-HBCFIELD.honeywell.com>
 14) Braid: sigTrans, Goodies, characterizations
	by Barbara Slater <slaterb-+AT+-smtpgw2.musc.edu>
 15) Manly males / Twins/ Tolkien
	by GrobuHit-+AT+-t-online.de (M. Grob u. S. Hitzler)
 16) Valdemar characters
	by "Amber Hasty" <firedancektreva-+AT+-hotmail.com>
 17) A question...
	by ahri-+AT+-juno.com (Not Home)
 18) Re: Gabby/Autrolicus (sp) and males in Misty's work
	by Riyan699 <Riyan699-+AT+-aol.com>
 19) Re: Casting/Homosexuality/Request for Suggestions
	by Riyan699 <Riyan699-+AT+-aol.com>
 20) A question... -Reply
	by Barbara Slater <slaterb-+AT+-smtpgw2.musc.edu>
 21) Re: A question...
	by dprono-+AT+-planet.eon.net
 22) Re: A question...
	by SongHawk <songhawk-+AT+-earthlink.net>
 23) Long fluffy post(smiley faces.....)
	by "Traci Harriman" <tracienesta-+AT+-hotmail.com>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 18:46:47 -0800
From: SongHawk <songhawk-+AT+-earthlink.net>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: stuff.....
Message-ID: <348E0296.E0CDD4A-+AT+-earthlink.net>

> <<I have always seen the Tayledras as sort of Native American>>

I know a lot of Misty reader's imagine the Tayledras as Native American's, but i
can't seem to imagine them that way! I mean I do sort of imagine them with darker
skin than white, but it's more of like a deep, deep tan on white skin to me. Plus,
with the adepts white hair and blue eyes and then how eventually those non-mages
hair and eye change it's virtually impossible for me to imagine.

 "Peace is when time doesn't
 matter as it passes by."

  Maria Schnell



------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 03:24:42 GMT
From: "Lady Summersunshine" <ladyofthesummer-+AT+-hotmail.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: braid: Kero/Christmas/Music/List
Message-ID: <19971210032444.27583.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com>

Heyla Listsibs!

Shadowdancer said:
>Eldan & Selenay:
>Also, has this been talked about before?  I caught two refs. about 
>it.  One in AFlight when Talia is at the Hearld's gathering, and in 
>BtS when Eldan is answering Kero's question about his relationships. 

I also noticed that Selenay and Kero seemed to have traded partners and 
had a nice chuckle over it...I especially liked the quote towards the 
end of BTS when Selenay and Daren have fallen in love and Kero says 
she'll have to tell Selenay that Daren snores.  As to Kero and Eldan 
having a lifebond, personnaly, I think that Misty probably intended for 
them to but realized that they were getting pretty common(there's at 
least one in every series, often two).  I would say that they were just 
deeply in love, but I can't bring myself to when I remember the dreams 
they shared the 10 years they were apart.


Skywynd said:
>I was in Camelot record store the other day, and was
>listening to demo tapes.  I found one that had almost the most 
>beautiful music I have ever heard!  I just had to buy it.  I thought >I 
would share this with all of you, since most of you seem to like 
>celtic music.  Her name is Loreena McKennitt.  The CD I bought is 
>called "The Book of Secrets."  I think it is her newest release.  I 
>checked Firebird Arts, and they have a bunch of her music, but not 
>this one.

I love her music!  My uncle gave me her CD "The Mask and Mirror" for 
Christmas last year and I liked it so much I listened to it for 5 hours 
straight one day.

Yvonne Shadowshape said:
>This is entirely Fluff and has no bearing on Misty at all, but I 
>have a simple question that is fueled entirely by curiosity: Besides 
>Misty paraphelelia, what is the top item on your Christmas Wish list? 
>I would like a 'Talking Darth Vader Piggy Bank' and a 'Miss 
>Cottingsworth's Book of Pressed Fairies' by Brain Froud. So, ummm... >I 
have no idea what to say now, so I guess I'll sigh off before I 
>make a COMPLETE fool of myself! ;)

I would love a mini-shopping-spree at any bookstore(esp. Barnes&Nobel).  
And don't be so down on yourself, remember you're a Knight of the Fluff!

Autumnwing said:
>And, last but not least, I would like to make a comment about the 
>list itself:  THIS IS GREAT! I am so glad that I found out about this 
>list and decided to join. I really look forward to reading 
>everybody's posts each day, and I'm also glad just to be able to talk 
>to people who don't say "Heralds? Companions? Whatchyou talkin' 
>bout?" Okay, just a moment of fluff.

I also would like to express my thanks for this list.  Even when I have 
nothing to contribute, I just enjoy reading about what others have to 
say.  I also love the fact that it's something of a family.


*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Lady of the SummerSunShine(aka Lisa)
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/4474
Archivst of Fluff and keeper of the Official Webpage of the 
Fluffian Order:  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/4991
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 19:26:04 PST
From: "Rebecca McAllister" <becs71-+AT+-hotmail.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: stuff.....
Message-ID: <19971210032604.14958.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com>



>Okay, in someone's post ( I cant remember who) Velgarth was 
mentioned... Did i
>miss something?  Just curious....
>
>Andi
>
Heyla,
	Velgarth is the planet that Valdemar and Rethwellan and karse and all 
those places are on.
				Rebcca Bondmate of Xeben the barnowl

P.S you see that, Idid it again.  I'm sorry

My strength is as the strength of ten because my heart is pure.



______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 22:30:06 -0800
From: Mystique D <crd-+AT+-ziplink.net>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Casting
Message-ID: <348E36EE.4AB0-+AT+-ziplink.net>

Mystique D wrote:
> 
> Alright all,
> You have got me thinking on this one....
> LHM movie:
> I'm still thinking who would make the perfect Van or 'Lindel....
> But I think Terry Nigel would make the Best Withern.

Doh!It's Nigel Terry....*sigh* am I really that dyslexic?he played
Arthur in the move Excaliber and was Sir Thomas Grey on the TV show
Covington Cross.For those who like to know.

 Glen Close as Savil,she is a great actress to show a strong character.
> Sam Elliot would play Jarvis,the perfect old war soldier.
> Still wondering who would be Leareth....
> 
> Brightmoon
> ps,I'm still thinking of the cast for the Arrows of the Queen movies.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 00:07:27 EST
From: JEatonM <JEatonM-+AT+-aol.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Braid
Message-ID: <d2e4b289.348e2391-+AT+-aol.com>

Here's my take on a few things...

Hetero life bonds - 

Call me crazy here, but don't you think that Dirk and Tailia were an
incredibly well-developed life-bonded pair?  After all, Dirk was the first
Herald Talia met on her way into Haven after Rolan Chose her.  There was no
mention of a lifebond between the two of them until much, much later.
However, there were mentions of strange feelings passing between the two of
them as they got to know each other better.

Tolkein - 

As someone who enjoys "real" literature as much as I enjoy fantasy (anybody
read Cold Mountain yet?)  I have to say that Tolkein is considered a fantasy
great not only because he was one of the creators of the genre, but because
his style and language is heads and shoulders above many other fantasy
authors.  Sometimes we forget that there is art to writing, and not just plot
development.  Tolkein had art as much as anyone, and should be respected for
it.  

John E. Morris

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 21:19:49 -0800
From: Don <lemke-+AT+-directcon.net>
To: Lackey List <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: McCaffrey chat??
Message-ID: <348E2675.36CC-+AT+-directcon.net>

Ok, since someone else already brought up her name.....someone
mentioned awhile ago that there was a list?? Maybe?? Am I wrong? If
there is please fill me in. Thanks.

  Anyad

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 23:19:51 -0600
From: "Dawn Anderson" <anderbdm-+AT+-win.bright.net>
To: <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Anne McCaffrey movie/interview
Message-ID: <01bd052b$3e685740$03d9fecd-+AT+-anderson>

Anne had an interview on AOL about 6 months ago where she talked about her
movie based on the first book in the series.  She stated then that it was
going to  be filmed in Ireland, not animated but lots of special effects,
the actors will probably be unknowns because of the budget, and it will be
done for tv.  And if they have a good response with the movie they may make
it into a TV show.
Dawn
http://members.aol.com/Keira37/keira37.html
-----Original Message-----
From: Crystal Hewitt <mysttree-+AT+-phantomreality.com>
To: anderbdm-+AT+-win.bright.net <anderbdm-+AT+-win.bright.net>
Date: Tuesday, December 09, 1997 1:55 PM
Subject: Anne McCaffrey movie/interview


>I'm unsure whether it will be "live" or animated.  I thought
>Crystal Hewitt
>


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 00:36:22 EST
From: "Jeff Aguiar" <roman_87-+AT+-hotmail.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Gabby/Autrolicus (sp) and males in Misty's work
Message-ID: <19971210053623.14325.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com>




>Hmmm... the world's best thief (Played masterfully by Bruce Campbell of 
Evil
>Dead and Brisco County Jr. fame) doesn't strike me as the 
Gabrielle-loving
>type.  Perhaps a night or two, but past that...  He'd love to get with 
Xena
>but that relationship would never work...

Hee, hee.  That's funny.  I NEVER look at Bruce Campbell like that (Wham 
bam, thank you ma'am...yeesh)...

>
>How many people agree with me that Misty just ain't that great at >male 
characters?  I can't think, at the moment, of any 
>mainstream-contemporary-North-American-male type _main_ character in 
>any of her solo books.  I don't just mean in 
>contemporary-North-American-male terms of just setting, but
>temperament as well.  There are a few gay characters (Vanyel, for >one) 
and a few definitely non-conventional male characters (Karal - >much too 
sensitive to be a product of our public school system), but >apart from 
Tannim from Chrome Circle (a book co-written by Larry >Dixon, presumably 
a man (since he's married to Misty))  I can't think >of any character 
types who'd be qualified by Tim Taylor as a true >"manly man."  Heck, 
even "If I Pay Thee Not in Gold,"  co-
>written by Piers Anthony (my first favorite author, sigh...) features 
>a male lead who's not.
>
>Now, I realize that Misty's work is aimed at the female half of the 
>populace, and that that portion of fantasy readership doesn't 
>necessarily want to read about what they find around them each day.  >I 
also concede that the male characters in the Valdemar books are a 
>product of a different environment, yadda yadda yadda.  Those points 
>aside, what do y'all think about her capability to write convincing 
>male lead characters?  Is she incapable or just unwilling?  For that 
>matter, is she capable of writing convincing female characters?  >Being 
a male meself, I don't know how convincing they are.

After careful consideration, I don't think you knew what a can of worms 
you were opening.  This isn't to say that the conversation isn't worth 
exploring...

There is a reason that fantasy is written.  There is a reason fiction 
exists and it's because people want to get away from Tim Taylor's image 
of masculinity, they want to get away from Dear Abby's column in the 
Times...Fiction is an escape.  That's why some things are unbelievable 
(not that ANY of Misty's characters are at all unbelievable---I believe 
them, else I wouldn't cry and think that they merited my tears).  It 
isn't fair to say that Misty can't write believable characters because 
she isn't supposed to write believable characters.  That's what fiction 
is about (I'm saying this a lot because this is the point of my post) 
and, more specifically, fantasy/scifi is supposed to be unrealistic and 
beyond belief.  I don't want to look in a book by a writer that I enjoy 
and see something shoved in there that doesn't mesh with the rest of 
everything because she wants to put "believable" characters in there.  I 
would disapprove because I don't think that's the point of her 
writing--to write something that is believable and sacrifice her 
purpose.  I don't think anyone should compromise what they're doing just 
to be accepted by the rest of everyone.  
Example: I had to do a research paper for my english class on issues in 
education.  I wrote on Homosexual teachers and why they should be able 
to teach.  My friends couldn't believe how much cajones I had to turn 
something like that in...It's so controversial, but my purpose was to 
open the eyes of those that read it.  I wasn't going to compromise my 
point of view just so what I said would be accepted.  I'm not like that.  
And I'm glad that Misty doesn't do that either...

Zhai'helleva,
Heartspring

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 23:08:08 +0000
From: Marv Watson <skywolf-+AT+-washington.sbceo.k12.ca.us>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: braid
Message-ID: <348DCF53.39B37F95-+AT+-washington.sbceo.k12.ca.us>

Heyla!  I thought I'd introduce myself, I'm Skywolf and have been a
Misty fan for a long
time.  I've been lurking for quite a while and I'd thought I would
respond on what I have
read.
1)Autemnleaf, if you want to read a very well done series, try Robert
Jordan's Eye of the
World series.  It's very long, and not done yet, but trust me, it is
worth it.
2) The sexuality thing, I don't care who has sex with whom, just as long
as they're happy
and love each other.
3)For the casting, how 'bout the guy that plays Jordan Catilano in the
TV series My
So-Called Life?  He certainly is pretty.  And if not him, then how about
the guy on Xena
who's supposed to be Xena's father. (I think, don't flame me for being
wrong, I don't watch
Xena that much).
4) My favorite book would have to be TBG.  My favorite trilogy, LHM.
Favorite character,
Amberdrake!  Favorite culture; undecided.
    Well, just thought to say hi and finally stop lurking!


                                                            -Smiles and
Hugs All 'Round!

Skywolf


"We danced in the path of the greatest winds, / in all their brutal
savagry/ And were swept
away/ into eternity."  -J. Watson

(By the way, Marv  Watson is the guy that owns this computer!  It's not
me!  I'm small and a girl! %^) )


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 10:26:50 GMT
From: Ailsa Reid <areid-+AT+-brookes.ac.uk>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: re: Gabby/Autrolicus (sp) and males in Misty's work
Message-ID: <199712101026.KAA11219-+AT+-brookes.ac.uk>

Yagathai said:
 
[much Xena snipped cos I've never seen it]
 
>How many people agree with me that Misty just ain't that great at male
>characters?  I can't think, at the moment, of any mainstream-contemporary-
>North-American-male type _main_ character in any of her solo books.  I don't
>just mean in contemporary-North-American-male terms of just setting, but
>temperament as well.  There are a few gay characters (Vanyel, for one) and a
>few definitely non-conventional male characters (Karal - much too sensitive to
>be a product of our public school system), but apart from Tannim from Chrome
>Circle (a book co-written by Larry Dixon, presumably a man (since he's married
>to Misty))  I can't think of any character types who'd be qualified by Tim
>Taylor as a true "manly man."  Heck, even "If I Pay Thee Not in Gold,"  co-
>written by Piers Anthony (my first favorite author, sigh...) features a male
>lead who's not.
 
Well, to me Karal is quite believable as someone who could have been through 
the UK public schools! (A public school here is one your parents pay fees for 
you to attend). He also reminds me of boys I knew in the UK state school 
system, who were interested in _learning_ rather than trashing the school. (A 
rarity in a state comprehensive, but good friends) :)
 
Besides, the stories are Fantasy. This implies people are reading them as an 
escape, so maybe she doesn't want North-American-type males in them? I'd 
personally say that Kris was a good example of a proper man (a gentleman?), but 
he seems to me to be more European in outlook than American.
 
Oh yes, who/what is Tim Taylor and what does he mean by a "manly man"?
 
>Those points aside, what do y'all think about her
>capability to write convincing male lead characters?  Is she incapable or just
>unwilling?  For that matter, is she capable of writing convincing female
>characters?  Being a male meself, I don't know how convincing they are.
 
Personally I can believe in most of her characters. I don't _want_ to believe 
her writing of ones like Ancar and Hulda, and Falconsbane does get a bit... 
boring towards the end of the Winds, but Kero, Kethry and Tarma do feel "real" 
or "possible" to me.
 
>"Cogito, ergo non sum Puella Condimenti"
>(The people on the PML were stumped by my new sig quote.  Can anyone here
>translate it without a lexicon?)
 
Easy, "I think, therefore I am not a Spice Girl" Looks like hobbies are 
occasionally useful :>
 
Ailsa, Councillor of Mist
 ____________________________________________________________________________
| Ailsa Reid						areid-+AT+-brookes.ac.uk  |
|		"What a night though it's one of seven,			     |
|		 What a night for the dancing dead,"			     |
|		(_Les Morts Dansent_ by Magnum)				     |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: 10 Dec 1997 09:07:01 -0600
From: "Piper, Jackie" <Jackie.Piper-+AT+-HBCFIELD.honeywell.com>
To: Mercedes-Lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk (IPM Return requested)
Subject: gender portrayals

TO: Mercedes-Lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk

Yagathai-+AT+-aol.com wrote:


<<<How many people agree with me that Misty just ain't that great at male
characters?  I can't think, at the moment, of any mainstream-contemporary-
North-American-male type _main_ character in any of her solo books.>>>

I would have to disagree wholeheartedly in several different ways (gee, that 
multiple personality thing again!)

First off, I'm female BUT if I was a man, I would have a real problem with 
the "mainstream-contemporary-NA-male" tag (or any tag)  I personally don't 
know any M-C-NA-Ms and have a hard time believing they exist but the whole 
"male-hunter" concept must be hard to live with.

Before you start thinking I was raised by nuns on a desert island, my dad 
was career Army and I've known many many strong men, none of whom attended 
the Tim Taylor school of Manly Men but one did go to Cordon Bleu school   :)

Note for Ailsa: Tim Taylor is the lead character on "Home Improvement" a US 
sit-com. Taylor is played by Tim Allen, former stand-up comic, and the show 
is based heavily on his act.  The show can be funny but you aren't missing 
much.  :)


<<I don't just mean in contemporary-North-American-male terms of just 
setting, but
temperament as well.  There are a few gay characters (Vanyel, for one) and a
few definitely non-conventional male characters (Karal - much too sensitive 
to
be a product of our public school system), but apart from Tannim from Chrome
Circle (a book co-written by Larry Dixon, presumably a man (since he's 
married
to Misty))  I can't think of any character types who'd be qualified by Tim
Taylor as a true "manly man.">>

I may be over reacting but Tim Taylor is a TV character, not exactly a good 
example of reality. Yes, there are probably lots of Tim Taylor types out 
there but even Tim has an softer side (he just doesn't know how to deal with 
it most of the time)

As for Karal, he may be too sensitive for our (assuming US here) school 
systems but how many kids started out like Karal only to have every drop of 
sensitivity blasted out of them by the system?

But that wasn't your question, was it?

<<Now, I realize that Misty's work is aimed at the female half of the 
populace,
and that that portion of fantasy readership doesn't necessarily want to read
about what they find around them each day.>>

I don't think her work is aimed merely at females.  If you went with the 
stereotypical (Tim Taylor) view of what females want in literature, Misty 
would write bodice-rippers where the female protagonist faints every three 
minutes and has sex in moving coaches but never gets bruised.   Hardly the 
stuff Misty actually writes, is it?


<<I also concede that the male characters in the Valdemar books are a 
product of a different environment, yadda yadda yadda.  Those points aside, 
what do y'all think about her capability to write convincing male lead 
characters?  Is she incapable or just unwilling?  For that matter, is she 
capable of writing convincing female
characters?  Being a male meself, I don't know how convincing they are.>>>

If being a product of an environment where women are seen as thinking, able 
and productive  members of society instead of breeding stock to be overseen 
and coddled (which how "our world" has seen/saw women for 100's of years), 
maybe that's why so many females read Misty's stuff?

I do find her characters, all of them, believable and convincing.  One of 
the aspects I look for in a 'good book' is how well the whole cast of 
characters is portrayed.  Look at Alberich, Teren, Kris, Amberdrake  and the 
others to see an example of a well-fleshed out cast filled with individual 
traits, desires and personalities.

Now look at a typical mainstream-contemporary-NA-male aimed fiction series 
which feature intriguing strong male characters.  Which a few exceptions, 
the hero dashes through each story with a different "babe" on his arm who is 
just there to provide a sexual context.   James Bond is a good example of 
that type of fiction.  And I'll read Fleming but I don't expect to be 
interested in any of his female characters because she won't be around 
except for Miss Moneypenny, the eternal mother of Bond, whose diary I'd love 
to read but I'd rather read Misty.  :)

:: putting away my portable soapbox now:::
::passing out the lime-flavored kool aid:::

jai ->   believes in gender based reality but doesn't like it one bit!


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 10:14:03 EST
From: GodesCarla <GodesCarla-+AT+-aol.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Elves, Gabby/Xena, Filk, and some other stuff
Message-ID: <69c683d8.348eb1be-+AT+-aol.com>

In a message dated 97-12-10 00:03:46 EST, you write:
Dax said:
<< Darkwind's father.  Not to say that he wanted to be bad...but he was.  He
 did some really bad stuff...like trying to destroy the Heartstone. >>
I don't know about this...he was under coercions, so he wasn't truly Bad. He
couldn't help it, and what's more, he did everything he could to undermine
Falconsbane, even a little, like by alienating Darkwind.

Someone mentioned that they could see the guy who played Jordan Catalino on
"My So-Called Life" as Van, (I think). That guy's name is Jared Leto, and he's
been nominated once or twice before. (Once by me!) Yes, he's beautiful, and is
good at being the brooding type...but as for a singing voice, they'd probably
have to dub one in if they decided to do those parts.

Oh, and someone else said (sorry, I'm getting a little lazy) that they thought
that Talia and Dirk had an incredibly well-developed lifebond. Yes! Yes! Yes!
I thought that their lifebond was one of Misty's best, and certainly one of
the most touching portrayals of a hetero relationship in any novel. (I only
say hetero because I feel the same way about both of Van's lifebonds.)

Okay, that's it for now.

Wind to thy (collective) Wings,

Autumnwing

------------------------------

Date: 10 Dec 1997 10:10:59 -0600
From: "Piper, Jackie" <Jackie.Piper-+AT+-HBCFIELD.honeywell.com>
To: Mercedes-Lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk (IPM Return requested)
Subject: Casting/Homosexuality/Request for Suggestions

To: Mercedes-Lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk   

A double post in one day but I can't help myself.

On the casting issue:

Diana Tregarde played  Laura San Giancomo (I know that's not spelled right) 
from Sex, Lies and Videotape  *and* "Just Shoot Me" on TV.  She's the right 
height and has a tough/vunerable image  she also has a kewl voice.

I have st* and gay friends an the only thing I can say in *both* cases is:

  As long as you're happy with who you are and what you're doing, who am I 
to say if it's right or wrong?


And a Special Request (but still OB Misty)

I've been thinking about what to get my 16 year old niece for X-mas (besides 
$$) and have almost decided on getting her one or more Misty books.  I'm a 
long way from 16 so any suggestions as to just which book(s) I should start 
her out on?

I'll go with The Arrows trilogy or one of the Serrated novels if no one 
feels moved to answer.  :0

jai

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 11:47:13 -0500
From: Barbara Slater <slaterb-+AT+-smtpgw2.musc.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Braid: sigTrans, Goodies, characterizations
Message-ID: <s48e8284.060-+AT+-smtpgw2.musc.edu>

On 12/10/97, Yagathai wrote:
"Cogito, ergo non sum Puella Condimenti"
(Semi-Hemi-Demi-Invisible God of Mythological Trivia of the Palladium Mailing List)
(God of Maniacal Laughter, also of the Palladium Mailing List)
(The people on the PML were stumped by my new sig quote.  Can anyone here translate it
without a lexicon?)
(I like parentheses, can ya tell?)
(Bruce Campbell rules!!!)

Well, the closest I can come to it (without cheating and peeking in an online dictionary)
is "I think, therefore I am not a Spice Girl!"? *gryn*

Re The Thing at the Top of My Yule List:
One week of parallel time and 5 strong people to help me clean out and repaint
and re-arrange my apartment --- hmm, better make that TWO weeks!

Re Can Misty write believable male characters?
IMHO, the answer's 'yes!' There's such a spectrum of behaviors for males
that her characterizations aren't impossible. One of the things I like about
her writing is that she writes about people first, and physical gender second.

BTW, Sword & Sorceress XV is now out and available - spotted in 
Waldenbooks (my home away from home!).


Lani Hunter
Murphy's Monster, The Master of Disaster 
(who's on her *best* behavior right now!)
LadyKnight of Fairgrove




------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 18:44:42 +0100
From: GrobuHit-+AT+-t-online.de (M. Grob u. S. Hitzler)
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Manly males / Twins/ Tolkien
Message-ID: <m0xfqBe-0003P4C-+AT+-fwd15.btx.dtag.de>

Heyla all,

>Now, I realize that Misty's work is aimed at the female half of the populace,
>and that that portion of fantasy readership doesn't necessarily want to read
>about what they find around them each day.  I also concede that the male
>characters in the Valdemar books are a product of a different environment,
>yadda yadda yadda.  Those points aside, what do y'all think about her
>capability to write convincing male lead characters?  Is she incapable or just
>unwilling?  For that matter, is she capable of writing convincing female
>characters?  Being a male meself, I don't know how convincing they are.

As a female myself, I was very pleased with her male lead characters. They 
convinced me. But you are right: such men don't exist on this planet. (*g*) No, 
that's not true, they are only hard to find. I think she is not incapable of 
creating "real" men, manly males or machoes to put it that way but she doesn't 
want them this way. If she doesn't like them and their behaviour in real life 
why include them in her fiction? Why not try for something more agreable? Maybe 
you are used to stereotyped men in other books/stories so you find Misty's males 
kind of strange. I like them.

Her female characters are allright, too. I do have my problems with Elspeth (she 
is still the Royal Brat for me) but still, she acts like a human being. Did you 
read Robin Bailey's Frost books? Now, in my eyes, Frost is a male in a female 
body with some female stereotypes added. She is not convincing for me. Elspeth, 
Talia, Kero, Tarma, Kethry, Savil, .... They all had depth. They were 
wonderfully portrayed.  No stereotypes here but real emotion, real thoughts, 
something I can identify with.

>Wasn't one of the twins going to be a Monarch's own? If so the 
>companion that chooses him or her will either be Rolan or another Grove 
>born.  Incidently, which one will be the heir and which will be 
>monarch's own?

What will happen to Talia if one of the twins becomes Monarch's Own? Maybe the 
twins are supposed to rule together with Talia as MO and Elspeth her successor 
(sp?) when Talia dies.

Re: Tolkien
John said writing was art and Tolkien was great at style and language. I agree, 
but writing is also entertainment. So if style and language don't entertain me I 
don't like the story. Don't get me wrong, I like well-written books, I enjoy 
great style and playing with language but if the story behind that is boring I 
can`t enjoy it. It took me ages to plow through book 1 of The Lord of the Rings 
just because it took him so long to get things going. All the family outlines, 
all the myths and hystory he invented is just great as a deed in itself but I 
didn't like it nevertheless.
Moreover, I didn't find any new thoughts in there which is not Tolkiens fault. 
Those authors who used HIS ideas in their stories are to blame. (Take the first 
Shannara book for example!) It's like those stories about King Arthur. Any other 
author has to do a story 'bout King Arthur! Or the Rhinegold. Or any old myth. 
AFter a while, it gets boring. 
I respect Tolkien for what he did in creating a whole new world. It was just 
hard to read. BTW, my sister who usually has the same taste as I thinks Tolkien 
is the Greatest of all. (She hasn't read any Valdemar stuff yet *snicker*) Maybe 
I just have some default genes here. 

Wind to thy Wings
Shantaya Autumnleaf
Keeper of Cats (who are demanding their food. Immediately. *groan*)


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 11:32:32 PST
From: "Amber Hasty" <firedancektreva-+AT+-hotmail.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Valdemar characters
Message-ID: <19971210193234.20177.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com>

Heyla,

My name's Firedance and this is my first posting. I think Kris will be 
the King and his sister will be King's Own. In Winds of Change, 
Elspeth is thinking about her mother being over-protective and she
says that if her mother knew about her promotion that she will never
rule she would  be locked up... as for the twins one would be King and 
the other would be King's Own (Sorry, don't have book with me so I can't 
give page number)Do ya'll think that Van & Stef will come back 
as Compaions or Heralds? At the end of the last Mage Storm book, Need
says that Van & Stef have to hurry in order to be on time for whatever
they chose to do. Does anyone besides me think that books should be 
written during the time period of the first heralds ex. the founding of 
Valdemar and about Sunsinger and Shadowdancer" I think it would be a 
great idea!
                                                 Wind to thy wings,
                                                            Firedance  
 

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 15:26:40 EST
From: ahri-+AT+-juno.com (Not Home)
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: A question...
Message-ID: <19971210.152242.7207.0.Ahri-+AT+-juno.com>


  I doubt anyone actually remembers when I was active on this list, but
that's okay. :)  I've been too busy lately.  Anyway, I'm de-lurking for a
bit to gather some information.  
It can/will end up semi-Misty related, so...

  The question is, what attracts you to a certain author?  Writing style,
feel of characters, etc.?  This can include both a book you saw and read
(give reason for choosing it) and an author whose books you do your best
to get ahold of.  Since I know most people here do their best to read any
Misty work, that's fairly on-topic, right? :)  

 Fun and laughter to all,

Ahri
Ahri-+AT+-Juno.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 15:29:32 EST
From: Riyan699 <Riyan699-+AT+-aol.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Gabby/Autrolicus (sp) and males in Misty's work
Message-ID: <9647f327.348efbaf-+AT+-aol.com>

In a message dated 97-12-10 01:56:19 EST, you write:

<< How many people agree with me that Misty just ain't that great at male
 characters?  I can't think, at the moment, of any mainstream-contemporary-
 North-American-male type _main_ character in any of her solo books.  I don't
 just mean in contemporary-North-American-male terms of just setting, but
 temperament as well. >>
I noticed that myself... dirk and kris were good characters, but not nearly as
interesting or developed as the womenfolk.  even the female companions had
more personalities that the males i.e. gwena, sayvil, yfandes.  i never got a
sense of "personality" from him
cogito ergo non sum Puella Condimenti?
i think, therefore i am not a something girl?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 15:43:31 EST
From: Riyan699 <Riyan699-+AT+-aol.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Casting/Homosexuality/Request for Suggestions
Message-ID: <3ec1752b.348efef5-+AT+-aol.com>

In a message dated 97-12-10 15:02:15 EST, you write:

<< I have st* and gay friends an the only thing I can say in *both* cases is:
 
   As long as you're happy with who you are and what you're doing, who am I 
 to say if it's right or wrong?
 
 >>
Right on!!!
I think that Dave Navarro of the Red Hot Chili Peppers would make a good
Vanyel- if you get rid of the tattos.  His eyes look silver in the warped
video because of the lights.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 16:45:28 -0500
From: Barbara Slater <slaterb-+AT+-smtpgw2.musc.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: A question... -Reply
Message-ID: <s48ece3b.007-+AT+-smtpgw2.musc.edu>

On Dec 10, 1997, Ahri asked:
>The question is, what attracts you to a certain author?  Writing style,
>feel of characters, etc.?  This can include both a book you saw and read
>(give reason for choosing it) and an author whose books you do your best
>to get ahold of.  Since I know most people here do their best to read any
>Misty work, that's fairly on-topic, right? :)  

I know, I know...I'm actually posting *twice* in one day...but it's a good 
question and deserves a prompt answer [and the list is dead slow at the 
moment... =) ].

What attracts me to a certain author?  It *has* to be the stories told.
Can you spin word pictures so clearly that I can see them in my 
imagination? Do you tell a story *well*, not telegraphing crucial 
events or elements 2 chapters in advance?  Are your characters 
three-dimensional, with well-rounded personalities and at least
*hints* of deeper backstories in the way you present them to us?
Can you catch and hold my attention so thoroughly that I won't 
be tempted to skip ahead just to get a situation over with? Can 
you rein in my galloping curiosity about the people and places 
you're telling me about, holding me down to a less-than-breakneck 
pace through your story using *sheer fascination* for a curb?

If you can, I'll be well and truly hooked, and will seek out your
work with a doggedness that'll put Ahab to shame.

Robin McKinley is such an author, IMHO. MZB and Misty,
Andre Norton at her best. Patricia McKillip's Riddlemaster of 
Hed series, RAH's Stranger In A Strange Land, Patricia Kenneally 
Morrison's Keltiad and Arthurian fiction, Gael Baudino's Elvish 
stories, Charles de Lint's stories, Lillian Jackson Braun's Cat 
Who ... series, Dorothy Sayer's Lord Peter Wimsey, JRR Tolkien, 
C.S. Lewis' Space Trilogy, Joyce Verrette's Egyptian stories, 
Miss Seeton and her authors, Dorothy Gilman's Miss Pollifax and 
her Clairvoyant Countess, Marian Niven's marvelous trilogy about 
the Rama family.

These are the ones I can think of off the top of my head (and as I run 
my mind's eye over my overflowing bookshelves).

If an author starts doing a bad job of telling the story, I lose interest.
Start getting predictable, and you'll not get my hard-earned $$ for
your work. Keep your character generator well-tuned, because
I'm not spending time on cardboard cut-outs churned out by 
the dozen. Big storylines aren't automatically, but don't turn them
into something that looks like soap-opera rejects.

'Course, what am *I* trying to do?  <drumroll, please>
Naturally, I'm slaving over an interesting story with 
well-rounded characters and a reasonable plotline... 
<sigh> Thank Ghu for word processors... =)

Okay everybody - *giggle*!

Lani the Murphy
LadyKnight of Fairgrove



------------------------------

Date: 	Wed, 10 Dec 1997 15:56:15 -0800
From: dprono-+AT+-planet.eon.net
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: A question...
Message-ID: <348F2C1F.2F00-+AT+-planet.eon.net>

Heyla all,

<snip> 
>   The question is, what attracts you to a certain author?  Writing style,
> feel of characters, etc.?  This can include both a book you saw and read
> (give reason for choosing it) and an author whose books you do your best
> to get ahold of.  

	Very on topic!! Well, I enjoy books with strong, beleivable 
characters. I like seeing weaknesses in them; it makes them more human 
and not 'I Am The Valliant Knight Who's Sworn Duty Is To Protect Weaker 
People Who Are Not God Blessed And Always Right Like I Am' (just doing my 
duty here folks! I'm a Knight of Fluff, so I'm allowed!) ;) i  also 
really like a book with strong imagry. I really liked 'Deerskin' by Robin 
Mckinley and 'Primavera' by who knows who. I couldnt put those two down 
because I was so emersed in what was going on! Ummmm... a good, solid 
plot helps too. If the plot is stupid, then no matter how good the 
characters or imagry is, the book is a total loss. a junk-book. a 
fire-starting kit. a paperweight. a footstool. a doormat. an emergency 
measure if your out in the middle of no where without toilet paper. you 
get the picture. my shift key isnt working, so i cant capitolise ormake 
an exclamation mark, very sorry there all. i get to write smallandina 
monotone... i'ddo a frownface, but i cant... sorry

	yvonne shadowshape, bondmate to  chiti, chosen by korla
	goddess of kelpies,selkies,and other  water-borne
	knight of fluff [the origional]  ;]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 15:04:23 -0800
From: SongHawk <songhawk-+AT+-earthlink.net>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: A question...
Message-ID: <348F1FF6.BE9B550C-+AT+-earthlink.net>

> <<The question is, what attracts you to a certain author?  Writing style,
> feel of characters, etc.?>>

Either their reputation, writing style, chracters, or the summary of the
story. If I don't like the summary there is no way your going to get me to
read the book! I also like books where it seems there is a good ending. Most
likely a happy one. I know not everyone is like this, but sad endings make me
feel frustrated!  When I pick up a book I want to get away from reality. I
don't want to read something that makes me think of reality with it's all to
often bad endings. Call me a fool, but sad endings get me annoyed! Thank to
all those who read this for your time!

                                                        SongHawk


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 15:42:42 PST
From: "Traci Harriman" <tracienesta-+AT+-hotmail.com>
To: Mercedes-Lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Long fluffy post(smiley faces.....)
Message-ID: <19971210234244.23800.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com>

 As an official Knight of fluff, I thought y'all should see some of the 
silly (albeit obscure) emotions... Sorry this is a long post. Read if 
desired...... TRUELY FLUFFY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WttW
Mooncrystal
aka Traci Harriman

The Unofficial Smilie Dictionary
--------------------------------

:-)   Your basic smilie. This smilie is used to inflect a
      sarcastic or joking statement since we can't hear
      voice inflection over Unix.
;-)   Winky smilie. User just made a flirtatious and/or
      sarcastic remark. More of a "don't hit me for
      what I just said" smilie.
:-(   Frowning smilie. User did not like that last
      statement or is upset or depressed about something.
:-I   Indifferent smilie. Better than a Frowning smilie
      but not quite as good as a happy smilie
:->   User just made a really biting sarcastic remark.
      Worse than a :-).
>:->  User just made a really devilish remark.
>;->  Winky and devil combined. A very lewd remark
      was just made.

Those are the basic ones...Here are some somewhat
      less common ones:

(-:   User is left handed
%-)   User has been staring at a green screen for
      15 hours straight
:*)   User is drunk
[:]   User is a robot
8-)   User is wearing sunglasses
B:-)  Sunglasses on head
::-)  User wears normal glasses
B-)   User wears horn-rimmed glasses
8:-)  User is a little girl
:-)-8 User is a Big girl
:-{)  User has a mustache
:-{}  User wears lipstick
{:-)  User wears a toupee
}:-(  Toupee in an updraft
:-[   User is a Vampire
:-E   Bucktoothed vampire
:-F   Bucktoothed vampire with one tooth missing
:-7   User juust made a wry statement
:-*   User just ate something sour
:-)~  User drools
:-~)  User has a cold
:'-(  User is crying
:'-)  User is so happy, s/he is crying
:--+AT+-   User is screaming
:-#   User wears braces
:^)   User has a broken nose
:v)   User has a broken nose, but it's the other way
:_)   User's nose is sliding off of his face
:<)   User is from an Ivy League School
:-&   User is tongue tied.
=:-)  User is a hosehead
-:-)  User is a punk rocker
-:-(  (real punk rockers don't smile)
:=)   User has two noses
+-:-) User is the Pope or holds some other religious office
`:-)  User shaved one of his eyebrows off this morning
,:-)  Same thing...other side
|-I   User is asleep
|-O   User is yawning/snoring
:-Q   User is a smoker
:-?   User smokes a pipe
O-)   Megaton Man On Patrol!  (or else, user is a scuba diver)
O :-) User is an angel (at heart, at least)
:-P   Nyahhhh!
:-S   User just made an incoherent statement
:-D   User is laughing (at you!)
:-X   User's lips are sealed
:-C   User is really bummed
<|-)  User is Chinese
<|-(  User is Chinese and doesn't like these kind of jokes
:-/   User is skeptical
C=:-) User is a chef
-+AT+-=    User is pro-nuclear war
*<:-) User is wearing a Santa Claus Hat
:-o   Uh oh!
(8-o  It's Mr. Bill!
*:o)  And Bozo the Clown!
3:]   Pet smilie
3:[   Mean Pet smilie
d8=   Your pet beaver is wearing goggles and a hard hat.
E-:-) User is a Ham radio operator
:-9   User is licking his/her lips
%-6   User is braindead
[:-)  User is wearing a walkman
(:I   User is an egghead
<:-I  User is a dunce
K:P   User is a little kid with a propeller beenie
-+AT+-:-)  User is wearing a turban
:-0   No Yelling!  (Quiet Lab)
:-:   Mutant Smilie
      The invisible smilie
.-)   User only has one eye
,-)   Ditto...but he's winking
X-(   User just died
8 :-) User is a wizard
C=}>;*{))  Mega-Smilie... A drunk, devilish chef with
      a toupee in an updraft, a mustache, and a
      double chin


Note: A lot of these can be typed without noses to
      make midget smilies.

:)   Midget smilie
:]   Gleep...a friendly midget smilie who will gladly
     be your friend
=)   Variation on a theme...
:}   What should we call these? (what?)
:)   Happy
:>   what?
:-+AT+-   what?
:D   Laughter
:I   Hmmm...
:(   Sad
:[   Real Downer
:<   what?
:{   what?
:O   Yelling
:C   what?
:Q   what?
:,(  Crying
[]   Hugs and
:*   Kisses
|I   Asleep
|^o  Snoring


:-`   smiley spitting out its chewing tobacco
:-1   smiley bland face
:-!           "
:--+AT+-   smiley face screaming
:-#|  smiley face with bushy mustache
:-$   smiley face with it's mouth wired shut
:-%   smiley banker
:-6   smiley after eating something sour
:^)   smiley with pointy nose (righty)
:-7   smiley after a wry statement
8-)   smiley swimmer
:-*   smiley after eating something bitter
:-&   smiley which is tongue-tied
:-0   smiley orator
      smiley invisible man
(:-(  unsmiley frowning
(:-)  smiley big-face
):-)          "
):-(  unsmiley big-face
)8-)  scuba smiley big-face
=:-)  smiley punk-rocker
=:-(  (real punk rockers don't smile)
+:-)  smiley priest
:-q   smiley trying to touch its tongue to its nose
:-e   disappointed smiley
:-t   cross smiley
:-i   semi-smiley
:-o   smiley singing national anthem
:-p   smiley sticking its tongue out (at you!)
:-[   un-smiley blockhead
:-]   smiley blockhead
:-{   smiley variation on a theme
:-}   ditto
{:-)  smiley with its hair parted in the middle
}:-)  above in an updraft
:-a   lefty smilely touching tongue to nose
:-s   smiley after a BIZARRE comment
:-d   lefty smiley razzing you
g-)   smiley with ponce-nez glasses
:-j   left smiling smilely
:-k   beats me, looks like something, tho.
:-l   y. a. s.
:-:   mutant smiley
:-\   undecided smiley
:-|   "have an ordinary day" smiley
;-)   winking smiley
:-<   real sad smiley
:->   y.a.s.
:-z   y.a.c.s.
:-x   "my lips are sealed" smiley
:-c   bummed out smiley
:-v   talking head smiley
:v)   left-pointing nose smiley
:-b   left-pointing tongue smiley
:-/   lefty undecided smiley
:-?   smilely smoking a pipe
.-]   one-eyed smilely
,-}   wry and winking
0-)   smiley cyclops (scuba diver?)
:-=)  older smiley with mustache
:u)   smiley with funny-looking left nose
:n)   smiley with funny-looking right nose
:<    midget unsmiley
:>    midget smiley
}:^#})  mega-smiley:  updrafted bushy-mustached pointy nosed smiley
with
                       a double-chin
:-)     ha ha
~~:-(   net.flame
|-)     hee hee
O |-)   net.religion
|-D     ho ho
:->     hey hey
8 :-I   net.unix-wizards
:-(     boo hoo
X-(     net.suicide
:-I     hmm
E-:-I   net.ham-radio
:-O     uh oh
>:-I    net.startrek
:-P     nyah nyah
3:o[    net.pets
|-P     yuk
:-}     beard
:-{     mustache
:-#     braces
:-X     bow tie
:-Q     smoker
<:I     dunce
(:I     egghead
-+AT+-:I     turban
8-)     glasses
B-)     horn-rims
8:-)    glasses on forehead
:-8(    condescending stare
;-)     wink
>:-<    mad


Drama :-(       Comedy :-)
Surpise :-o     Suspense 8-|

Male    :-      Female  >-
Birth   |-O     Death 8-#
Infinity        8

If you got this far, great for you! Pass it on......
Mooncrystal

______________________________________________________
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------------------------------

End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1423
**********************************