MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1465 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) MIST: Copyrights again (was Re: Fan Fiction?) by Kenneth Allen Hyde 2) Fantasy and the Bible. by Kenneth Allen Hyde 3) Re: MIST: Copyrights again (was Re: Fan Fiction?) by Ana Cotton 4) Re: Idea, A Question, and Taglines.... by taylsworth-+AT+-mail.ewu.edu 5) Braid, Typoos, and the bible thing. by dprono-+AT+-planet.eon.net 6) Re: Fantasy and the Bible. by Danielle May Marrone 7) Re: Idea, A Question, and Taglines.... by Danielle May Marrone 8) Re: Braid, Typoos, and the bible thing. by Danielle May Marrone 9) Small apology. by Danielle May Marrone 10) Re: Bad cover art, Good and Evil by GrobuHit-+AT+-t-online.de (M. Grob u. S. Hitzler) 11) help by Danielle May Marrone 12) Re: Fantasy and the Bible. by "John E Morris" 13) Re: MIST: Copyrights again (was Re: Fan Fiction?) by Kenneth Allen Hyde 14) Re: help by troll-+AT+-netcomuk.co.uk 15) Re: Bad cover art, Good and Evil by Kenneth Allen Hyde 16) Re: Bad cover art, Good and Evil by Stasia 17) Re: Bad cover art, Good and Evil by Marv Watson 18) Kudos to Yvonne Shadowshape/ and RE: the Bible thing by SEANSQ 19) Re: help by "ceyl&john" 20) Braid by Femmy Syahrani 21) Re: Bad cover art, Good and Evil by AERDEN-+AT+-delphi.com 22) help by AERDEN-+AT+-delphi.com 23) Braid by AERDEN-+AT+-delphi.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 11:36:35 -0500 (EST) From: Kenneth Allen Hyde To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: MIST: Copyrights again (was Re: Fan Fiction?) Message-ID: On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, krudd wrote: > I was wondering if there was a fan fiction site devoted to Mercedes' > work and characters from those works? There isn't one, so far as I know. And if there is, please nobody announce it here. > If there are none, what does everyone think about the idea? Many fans think it would be a great idea. However, Misty and her lawyers think it is a very bad idea and have the law on their side. Everyone, please remember that copyright violation is a bad thing, and fan-fic is copyright violation, regardless of any profit motive or lack thereof. > This would be a great way for people to write about their favorite > characters or to create a new character and place that character into > whatever period of Valdemaran history they want. Or to explore periods > of time or places that haven't been written about yet. This is exactly why fan-fic is considered a violation of copyrights. All of those things you mention are stories that the author should have the right to create themselves. If Misty wants to write about something or if she wants one her characters to do something, she can do it. But she shouldn't have to worry about other people stealing her characters and ideas and having them do things that she might not want them to do. Similarly, there are periods that Misty has explicitly stated that she doesn't want to write about (Windrider Unchained, the Founding of Valdemar) and we should respect her decision, not try to write our versions of what happened (which would probably not match Misty's ideas at all). Now, all that being said, there is of course, a way to write legitimate fiction about Velgarth or any other of Misty's worlds. You can try to contact her through her publisher and ask for permission. If you get it, then you can right your story and bask in the glow of being legal. =) Obviously, under certain circumstances, she allows it or "Swords of Ice" would not exist. (Of course, the obvious catch here is that SoI was edited by Misty, so it is clear that she doesn't surrender control of her creations completely). Anyway, Kris, it is a nice idea, but for the moment (and for all foreseeable moments) it is not a workable one. May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd Councilor of Mist Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me //www.ling.udel.edu/hyde/prof/ken.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 12:46:22 -0500 (EST) From: Kenneth Allen Hyde To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Fantasy and the Bible. Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Beth Cavanaugh wrote: > Hummm, I'm Catholic. I think, that the Bible implies that you shouldn't get > TOO wraped up into the fantasy. MY mom adds that its just not to get so > wraped up that you start beling it...of course this is just an opinion.... Hmmmmm. I'm curious now. Given that fantasy fiction is a fairly recent development (what we usually term fantasy fiction is a 20th century phenomenon), I have to wonder how the Bible (which was written significantly longer ago than 1900) could warn against fantasy fiction. What exactly is the warning? Is it a direct proscription or is it one of those things that can be interpreted any number of ways (such as the Biblical rule that makes it a sin to eat cheeseburgers--don't laugh, I had a x-ian friend who wouldn't eat them because of this rule)? BTW, I would say that the difference between fantasy and delusion is that fantasy is something "fantastic" that you don't believe could really happen in the real world, and delusion is when you believe that it could. Thus, Misty writes fantasy. However, someone who writes about...oh, I don't know...maybe...*The Guardians* because they believe in them is delusional. I'm sure that delusional behavior is looked down in the Bible in a number of ways, not the least of which is that it probably would necessarily involve turning primary spiritual belief from God to other things. May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd Councilor of Mist Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me //www.ling.udel.edu/hyde/prof/ken.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:25:11 -0800 (PST) From: Ana Cotton To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: MIST: Copyrights again (was Re: Fan Fiction?) Message-ID: <19980122182511.18829.rocketmail-+AT+-web1.rocketmail.com> ---Kenneth Allen Hyde wrote: > > There isn't one, so far as I know. And if there is, please nobody > announce it here. Why not? Worried about lawyers? You raised some valid points. But, you were so dashed serious! Pardon me, but I thought the original reason for fan-fic, was *FUN*. It is fun to write about characters, adn have others read about them. Yes, its amatuers, etc who write fan-fic.. (Sorry to all pro fan-fic authors). It has never seemed to be a reason to discredit the author, or make it so the author cannot write about the same characters/events in a completely different matter. If this weren't true 3/4 of the fan-fic *nay, ALL* would be infingement, and illegal. Also, there is a form you can send to the QO for, release. Sorry, if I'm a bit fractured this morning--just got out of class. ------------------------- Hugs, Ana, Secretary, general dogsbody et al. Life, the Universe and Everything, by Douglas Adams--read it! Also, watch Buffy: the Vampire Slayer. Keeper of the GASP radio. 'I like my stupid life, just the way it is.. And I wouldn't even change it for: a thousand flying pigs'-- Boingo http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/6573 _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free -+AT+-yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 11:03:19 -0800 (PST) From: taylsworth-+AT+-mail.ewu.edu To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Idea, A Question, and Taglines.... Message-ID: On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Danielle May Marrone wrote: > <<>> > > Why is your favorite character your favorite? Mine happens to be Vanyel > > (no, I'm not male or Shyach), but I'm not sure why? Anyone know? > > > Ummmmmm . . . my favorite character is probably Talia. She was the very > first Misty character I was introduced to and the one that I found to be > like I felt. I also like Vanyel, probably because he is so very likeable. > > > > Vanyel was very likeable. All of the hardships that he went through, drew you to him. My favorites are Darkwind and Elspeth. I really enjoyed reading about all of the adventures that they went through around the Vale. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 12:17:11 -0800 From: dprono-+AT+-planet.eon.net To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Braid, Typoos, and the bible thing. Message-ID: <34C7A947.12A4-+AT+-planet.eon.net> Heyla all! :) This is Yvonne Shadowshape raising her head again. *TAKE COVER!* >Nay, blame not thy keyboard. For I have taken my aspect upon me and >raised up >my attribute (or is it the other way around?) and caused thy >difficulties! >have to keep my hand in, don't you know. Then I pledge thee a tonne of insense from across the farthest sea and a tonne of pure white pearls brought to thee by mine Creatures. I shall sit by thine Alter and send to thee a million prayers-just taketh thine curse off thy fellow Deity's keyboard!! Ok, now that I have tried to apease the Powerful Glot Od Trupos, I will add in my bit about the bible/fantasy. I am a Catholic (but not a very good one) and it's been my observation that the Bible can be interprated in many many ways. So while for one person a passage may read "Thou shall not read Fantasy and Science Fiction" for another it may mean "Readeth Fantasy and Science Fiction, but readeth it with care, as to not dissolve into an unreal world." For me, I read fantasy because I think our world could be that little extra better if we were not alone on it: and besides, it's sometimes fun to get a wee bit superstious. My Dad is a Catholic, but my Mum's a Scottish Prodistant, so I inherited my religon from my Dad and my supersticous side from my Mum. But the key is to keep it from takig over your life. Gettig the cards read for you, for instance, is FUN. But it's not fun once you move your life around to make it come true. Or to wallow in self-pity if your cards come out bad. Inn that case you laugh it off and go have an icecream. It looks like the Godf Id Typoos is still around. *sigh* I shall pledge thee a tonne of insense, a tonne of pearls, AND a tonne of pretty seashells if you take off this curse!! (I hope you have a warehouse somewhere.) As for the border thing again: I didn't realise that the picture was half cut off to make room for the boarders. I bet that makes Jody Lee (that's who does them, right?) kinda peeved. And I didn't think of that Van would be white haired.... the little things that you DONT notice!! So I have said my little bit now, and I will go away now. Goodbye, and remember not to eat your morning toothpaste. Yvonne Shadowshape Goddess of Kelpies, Selkies, and the other Water-Borne Knight of Fluff (no tag today folks) ;) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 14:49:58 -0500 (EST) From: Danielle May Marrone To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Fantasy and the Bible. Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Kenneth Allen Hyde wrote: > On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Beth Cavanaugh wrote: > > > Hummm, I'm Catholic. I think, that the Bible implies that you shouldn't get > > TOO wraped up into the fantasy. MY mom adds that its just not to get so > > wraped up that you start beling it...of course this is just an opinion.... > > Hmmmmm. I'm curious now. Given that fantasy fiction is a fairly recent > development (what we usually term fantasy fiction is a 20th century > phenomenon), I have to wonder how the Bible (which was written > significantly longer ago than 1900) could warn against fantasy fiction. > What exactly is the warning? Well, it says something about implying something like fairy tales. I read it a while age and I think it is in Leviticus. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 14:54:16 -0500 (EST) From: Danielle May Marrone To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Idea, A Question, and Taglines.... Message-ID: > > Vanyel was very likeable. All of the hardships that he went through, drew > you to him. My favorites are Darkwind and Elspeth. I really enjoyed > reading about all of the adventures that they went through around the > Vale. > I like them a lot too. When Darkwind supposedly died near the end of Mage Winds i threw the book across the room with a loud shriek and glared at it for a while. Then I picked up the book and found out he didn't die and felt really silly. I am adding a question. What is your favorite area in Misty's world's? Mine is unquestionably the Vales. ARI ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 15:09:11 -0500 (EST) From: Danielle May Marrone To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Braid, Typoos, and the bible thing. Message-ID: Ahem. I never said that the Bible says not to read Sci Fi and Fantasy. What I meant when I wrote there being a conflict was cleared up in an earlier message. Here's what I wrote . . . "Well, I've been trying (and have tried in the past) to read the Bible on a regular basis, and my love for fantasy tends to override any time set aside for doing so. The Bible also says that one shouldn't get caught up in fantasy (or something to that effect) and I always do. It is my escape for my real life and has been for many years. I usually prefered to be in the fantasy world." While this isn't as true anymore as it was when I was younger, this is where the conflict was. ARI ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 15:16:33 -0500 (EST) From: Danielle May Marrone To: Mercedes Lackey Fan List Subject: Small apology. Message-ID: I didn't me to be so touchy with my last message. Sorry. ARI ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 22:18:58 +0100 From: GrobuHit-+AT+-t-online.de (M. Grob u. S. Hitzler) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Bad cover art, Good and Evil Message-ID: Heyla listsibs, Yvonne Shadowshape wrote: > So now if I'm looking for a book, I'll read the > blurb (not seriously) the blurb in the inside cover, and then take a look > at the cover art. (I can't help it! If there is a half naked chick and > some sort of muscle bound 'Hero' waving a sword, I usually won't bother > to read it! *blush*) In general I agree with you but if I had judge "Chicks in Chainmail" (edited by Esther Friesner) by this standard I would have missed one of the best anthologies around! As the title says it is about female sword fighters but none of the stories takes the genre too serious. I had some fits of laughter about this book. It's just great! And showing a half naked muscle bound woman on the cover! >Godf Id Typoos is still around. *sigh* I shall pledge thee a tonne of >insense, a tonne of pearls, AND a tonne of pretty seashells if you take >off this curse!! (I hope you have a warehouse somewhere.) Try offering tonnes of ice-cream. It helped in my case! Somebody wrote: >because both Christianity >and fantasy concern themselves with the conflict between good and evil, >and in both of them, good strives to overcome evil. My sister told me about a book she read some time ago (she is a bookseller and has to read tons of stuff and GETS SAMPLES FREE and GETS HER BOOKS CHEAPER (ENVY!!!!!)) Good had won the eternal battle against evil but soon found out that live was horrible without evil (or that they couldn't exist without evil, too, I don`t remember exactly, sorry). Most of the time I get bored when I have to read yet another book on the good versus evil thing. Especially when the author trys to hammer his conviction down your throat! I don't like morals!!!!! Did you BTW notice that no one said he / she read Misty because she like the way how she dealt with this eternal conflict? Maybe either no one noticed she did so or it just isn't the primary whatsisname of her books (sorry, I know exaclty what I want to say but can't find the right word for it! ARRRRRRRGH!!!!) Someone else wrote (couldn't find a name, sorry): To: Mercedes Lackey Fan List Subject: help Message-ID: I once read a series of books having to do with kidswho had an Uncle Merri Lyn (merlin). the series was about 7 books long and I loved it. I can't remember the books or many details because the ending of the last book had me traumatized (the kids forgot all the wonderful adventures they had been on and I cried the whole night . . . they even forgot Merri Lyn (I think that was his name). Van anyone tell me what the name of the series was? ARI THANKS ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:17:49 -0500 From: "John E Morris" To: Subject: Re: Fantasy and the Bible. Message-ID: <01bd2783$92c7ab40$f96e2581-+AT+-default> >Well, it says something about implying something like fairy tales. I read >it a while age and I think it is in Leviticus. Remember that the books of the OT are several thousand years old - and written in Hebrew. In addition to the Torah (of which Leviticus is a part) There is another ancient Jewish text which didn't make the leap to Christianity, called the Quabbalah (or Khaballa, depending on how you want to spell it) This book was (well, IS, since many scholars of Judaeism still study it) on the subject of Jewish mysticism - to put it more simply, magic. The belief in magic is very old and was certainly not absent from the lives of the OT's authors, a fact that is either overlooked or just ignored by many of the fundamentalist groups who condem fantasy novels and games. Surecrow ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:40:13 -0500 (EST) From: Kenneth Allen Hyde To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: MIST: Copyrights again (was Re: Fan Fiction?) Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Ana Cotton wrote: > Why not? Worried about lawyers? Yep. Remember that this list is hosted on Mel's business computer. She cannot afford to have her business get involved in a copyright infringement suit because she allowed people to use this list to publicise or publish illegal fan-fic. > You raised some valid points. But, you were so dashed serious! I am serious. I consider Mel to be one of my friends. She has been a wonderful hostess for this list and has given her time and resources without stinting so that we can all have a fun list to discuss Misty. In return, all that she asks is that we keep the list from causing problems for her business. I don't mean to be squashing anyone's sense of fun, but I would consider myself remiss in my friendship if I didn't do what I could to head things off at the pass. > If this weren't true 3/4 of the fan-fic *nay, ALL* would be infingement, > and illegal. Hmmm. How do I say this. Most fanfic is illegal. However, the authors in question have either announced that they do not intend to pursue legal action (Anne Rice has taken this position, for example) or they have been very obliging about giving out actual copyright releases (very very few authors will do this). That's really cool of them, because you are right in saying that most fanfic is done out of a sense of fun. However, there are those few bad apples that have made life rough for authors such as MZB with fanfic (MZB once had a fan who threatened to sue her for copyright infringement of a piece of fanfic--which she didn't even know existed. He wanted some large amount of money to give her the rights to publish her story). This is why a lot of authors have announced that they will prosecute fanfic authors. Misty is one of them. People on this list have gotten mail from her lawyers in the past about "copyright infringements." > Also, there is a form you can send to the QO for, release. Oh, yes, I forgot about that one. Thanks for reminding me. I'm not sure if the QO release is for general fanfic or whether it is just for persona creation, but it is worth writing to them; I've been told both by different sources. But it is certainly one avenue of inquiry. May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd Councilor of Mist Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me //www.ling.udel.edu/hyde/prof/ken.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 22:55:30 GMT From: troll-+AT+-netcomuk.co.uk To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: help Message-ID: <199812222571456334-+AT+-netcomuk.co.uk> You're describing the Dark is Rising sequence(5 books, not 7) by Susan Cooper. I have an old copy...haven't seen it in print for some time. Muranog Shadowbane Troll Herald-Mage ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 18:06:43 -0500 (EST) From: Kenneth Allen Hyde To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Bad cover art, Good and Evil Message-ID: On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, M. Grob u. S. Hitzler wrote: > I remember that some time ago Femmy (I guess it was) was flamed > (privately) for writing she (he? sorry, don't know) was Moslem. Hmmm. That seems rough. Certainly no-one should be flamed for giving information about what religion they follow. We have representatives of most of the major religions, and a few non-major ones. Not to mention people who are not religious at all. A simple statement of affiliation should never be flameworthy. > That's not fair! I'm following neither of the monotheistic reliogions > but I think you should treat anybody the same way. It's called > tolerance. So you either allow Femy to tell you about her / his religion > or you turn on your big flamethrower and burn the whole biblical > discussion down. (Sorry if this sounds too rude but I'm something of a > fairness fanatic) Nobody should be doing any flaming at all on the list. If some loser wants to flame someone for their religious affiliation off-list, no-one here can prevent it, but we can all offer the target lots of moral support. =) Private flames can be unpleasant and most of us have had to live through them. Femy is free to answer any questions about Islam that he/she wishes on list. And if someone questions that freedom, they are equally free to take it up with a member of the Council. But if Femy is answering questions about Islam in a rational polite way, then the cavilers should not expect much sympathy to their position. One of the Council is muslim, for that matter. =) And one is pagan. And one is... et cetera. =) BTW, please note that I make a distinction between arguing that something is right or wrong based on religious beliefs (which must be handled very carefully and should always be framed to respect other people's right to believe differently) and statements about religious affiliation (which are simple statements of fact without any moral judgement attached). There is a big difference from saying "Vanyel was evil because the Bible says that magic-users are the spawn of Satan and all y'all are going to FRY!" (unacceptable) and "I'm Catholic" (acceptable). There is even a distinction to be drawn between "Well, officially, Catholics believe X is wrong because...." and "X is a sin." The first statement tells us something about the beliefs of a particular group while the second statement presents the speakers beliefs as universal truths. Hopefully, the second kind of statements (statements that are tolerant and rational) will be the kind people find on here. Certainly, there is nothing wrong with such statements and they add to an interesting discussion. People who choose the first sort of statements (ones that deny the validity of other beliefs and do not respect differences of opinion among list-members) will probably be quietly and privately asked to bow out of the conversation. They may also receive some private flames, although I would personally hope not, since I don't think that real flames are ever a good idea. May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd Councilor of Mist Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me //www.ling.udel.edu/hyde/prof/ken.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 18:24:15 -0500 From: Stasia To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Bad cover art, Good and Evil Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980122182415.0071f6e8-+AT+-mail.gte.net> At 09:53 PM 1/22/98 GMT, Shantaya Autumleaf wrote: >My sister told me about a book she read some time ago (she is a bookseller and >has to read tons of stuff and GETS SAMPLES FREE and GETS HER BOOKS CHEAPER >(ENVY!!!!!)) Good had won the eternal battle against evil but soon found out >that live was horrible without evil (or that they couldn't exist without evil, It reminds me of Anthony's Incarnation of Immortality series. Perry was needed in his job discription, which just happened to be evil. The whole series spent the other incarnations fighting him, but once you really got to know him, he wasn't that bad of a guy. One of the best series that I've found that deals with, not only the necessity of evil, but also the fact that even things like "Good and Evil" and "God and Satan" are not absolutes. To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Bad cover art, Good and Evil Message-ID: <34C76A4D.C6AC5D0-+AT+-washington.sbceo.k12.ca.us> Re the christianity issue: (I donned (sp?) flameproof underwear and clothes and helmet and gloves in advance) I remember that some time ago Femmy (I guess it was) was flamed (privately) for writing she (he? sorry, don't know) was Moslem. She / He apologized openly. On the other hand, now everybody is saying: I'm Catholic / Protestant / Christian and reciting the Bible without being flamed. That's not fair! I'm following neither of the monotheistic religions but I think you should treat anybody the same way. It's called tolerance. So you either allow Femy to tell you about her / his religion or you turn on your big flamethrower and burn the whole biblical discussion down. (Sorry if this sounds too rude but I'm something of a fairness fanatic) Well. Well. Such a discussion and I don't know where to start. Here goes....I agree with Autunmleaf in that EVERYbody should be able to express their own religious beliefs without being flamed. BUT this doesn't mean I WANT people shoving their beliefs down my throat and demanding that I convert. Sorry if I'm a bit touchy, but I'm currently fending off a mother, aunt&uncle, and my english teacher from trying to convert me to their own chosen religion. I'm just not comfortable with ANY religion that has priests and nuns in them. Take a WILD guess at what happened to me. And my best friend. But anyway, it's cool to express your beliefs, just make sure you do it objectively, and that you're not harping on and on about the subject. Now, enough of that. I have seen a lot of you ask me where the list of taglines are. WEll, the simple truth is is that they just aren't up yet. I've just had finals from Hell, so I'm a bit brain fried. Expect them soon, and thank you thank you thank you for all the ones people have given. Keep them coming, I'll just update the list! More!!! More!!!MORE!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! (Sorry, I've just had my last midterm. I'm entitled to be a bit giddy) : ) Dragon Luck to You ALL, Skywolf DRagon-friend Dame of the OAM "We danced in the path of the greatest winds / In front of all their brutal savagery / And were swept away / Into eternity." -by J.W. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 18:18:06 EST From: SEANSQ To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Kudos to Yvonne Shadowshape/ and RE: the Bible thing Message-ID: <12ccbd6f.34c7d3b1-+AT+-aol.com> In a message dated 98-01-22 16:00:03 EST, Yvonne Shadowshape wrote: << Then I pledge thee a tonne of insense from across the farthest sea and a tonne of pure white pearls brought to thee by mine Creatures. I shall sit by thine Alter and send to thee a million prayers-just taketh thine curse off thy fellow Deity's keyboard!! >> Thank you, Thank you! In years (or maybe it only feels like years and is only months) we always used to gift each other with marvelous things like these. They were kind and silly and wonderful. I don't know what happened to all these creative folks, the list tends to ebb and flow and I guess they are off doing other kind, silly and wonderful things. I can tell you though, if we can get that feeling again, the list blossoms into a warm and friendly place to be. How about it? My feet are firmly anchored on the ground and I find it really difficult to come up with descriptions like this.....which is why I read Misty!!! &*&&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*& Regarding the religion thread which seems to be coming around again. Yes, someone noted that in the past month or so some people were not too tolerant of someone part of a religion which is not "mainline" in the United States. I will mention that in a religion class I was in just 2 nights ago, the teacher told us that the fastest growing single religion in the US today is the Muslim faith, so us old time Christians had better work a great deal harder at making our religion more user-friendly and relavent to young people. **(Ooops, looking around Meg realizes that she has mounted a soap box and sheepishly steps down.)** So to get back to the point I was heading for before jumping up on my box, the religion thread must be handled with kindness and gentleness (which I know all of you possess with great abundance!!) Luv to all, Meg ~Councilor of Mist~ Assistant to the God of New Homes specializing in Neighborhood Welcoming Committees Knight of Amber and Marigold Knight of Fairgrove (in training) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:45:15 -0800 From: "ceyl&john" To: Subject: Re: help Message-ID: <199801230341.TAA13088-+AT+-hummer.insidenet.com> allo, There is a set of books called the Dark is Rising by Susan Cooper one of the main characters is named Merriman Lyon, and he is a great uncle to three of the children in the story. The only other books that i can think of are the narnia one, but i do not think they are correct. She is the author that first got me into this style of book. ceyllynn mc arthur I can't remember the books or many details because the ending of the last book had > me traumatized (the kids forgot all the wonderful adventures they had been > on and I cried the whole night . . . they even forgot Merri Lyn ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 17:05:44 +0700 From: Femmy Syahrani To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Braid Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980123170544.0068e1c4-+AT+-pop03.ca.us.ibm.net> Surecrow said, >Enjoyment >of imaginary settings and places shouldn't have any bearing on one's >religious persuasion. (Heh, tell that to the Sheites right?> who read Salmon Rushdie's book :) ) Have anyone here read Rushdie's book, BTW, the Satanic Verses? Can you tell me what it's about? I'm really curious. I haven't read it myself to judge if it's really insulting to Muslims. I've only had a chance to glimpse it at a library. I thought it was a fantasy novel based on Muhammad's life, or am I wrong? If it was, then I know why Muslims is so upset about it, given that no one is allowed to draw pictures of him, much less write a fantasy novel, which may give an incorrect image of him. ======================= Ailsa, >and its in the USA so I _still_ haven't worked out how to get them a >reply-paid envelope!). Why not try IRC (international reply coupon)? I'm sure the post-office sells them. That's where I got mine. =============== >Why doesnt Van have silver hair in magic's price? He >had been working with node magic for years by then (or so my halting >memory recalls) and his hair should have been streaked with white. Yes, I've wondered about that too. Does the books mention anywhere that Vanyel's hair has been bleached by magic? Where exactly? I forgot if they ever did. Femmy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 06:31:47 -0500 (EST) From: AERDEN-+AT+-delphi.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Bad cover art, Good and Evil Message-ID: <01ISPG93VR3I961CZ3-+AT+-delphi.com> On 22-JAN-1998 16:55:14.3 mercedes-lackey said to AERDEN me>Somebody wrote: me> me>>because both Christianity me>>and fantasy concern themselves with the conflict between good and evil, me>>and in both of them, good strives to overcome evil. me>My sister told me about a book she read some time ago... Good had won the eternal battle me>against evil but soon found out that live was horrible without evil me>(or that they couldn't exist without evil, too, I don`t remember me>exactly, sorry). I've seen books like that--Louise Cooper's Time Master trilogy, with a conflict between the gods of Chaos and Order. I like books like this, because they make a good point--you can't have one without the other. Good is only as good as its opponent is evil...something like the way you can only have a really incredible hero if the villain is equally challenging. Most of the time I get bored when I have to read yet me>another book on the good versus evil thing. Especially when the author me>trys to hammer his conviction down me>your throat! I don't like morals!!!!! Definitely. Good authors do it much more subtly than that, and the concentrate on making the plot exciting enough that you don't immeciately notice or concern yourself with the Good Overcoming Evil theme. What's important is the Story--_how_ good overcomes evil, not that it is overcome. Did you BTW notice that no one me>said he / she read Misty because she like the way how she dealt with me>this eternal conflict? Maybe either no one noticed she did so or it me>just isn't the primary whatsisname of her books Right. The point of her books isn't The Message, it's the story. Chantal ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 06:31:53 -0500 (EST) From: AERDEN-+AT+-delphi.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: help Message-ID: <01ISPG9ACUBO961CZ3-+AT+-delphi.com> On 22-JAN-1998 17:36:37.7 mercedes-lackey said to AERDEN me>I once read a series of books having to do with kidswho had an Uncle me>Merri Lyn (merlin). the series was about 7 books long and I loved it. me>I can't remember the books or many details because the ending of the me>last book had me traumatized (the kids forgot all the wonderful me>adventures they had been on and I cried the whole night . . . they me>even forgot Merri Lyn (I think that was his name). Van anyone tell me me>what the name of the series was? ARI me>THANKS Ari--It's the 'The Dark Is Rising' series by Susan Cooper. GREAT books! And it's Uncle Merlyon. Chantal ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 06:42:18 -0500 (EST) From: AERDEN-+AT+-delphi.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Braid Message-ID: <01ISPGM87IWI95YO3B-+AT+-delphi.com> Ailsa--My husband bought The Satanic Verses, read it, and wasn't terribly impressed. I read the first page and decided it was so badly written that I didn't want to waste my time further...time I could spend reading a Misty book or something else. (g) Chantal ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1465 **********************************