MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1472

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Filk shops
	by Melanie Dymond Harper <mel>
  2) Help!
	by Danielle May Marrone <dmarrone-+AT+-ic.sunysb.edu>
  3) RE: taglines, Diana books?
	by "Eleonora Scoseria" <eleonora-+AT+-www.multi.com.uy>
  4) MIST: Copyright issues and the Council(was Re: Fan Fiction?)
	by Kenneth Allen Hyde <kenny-+AT+-UDel.Edu>
  5) blurbs
	by skyfire-+AT+-t-online.de (skyfire)
  6) newbie
	by Adrienne Metz <ametz-+AT+-u.arizona.edu>
  7) RE: newbie and magic and water
	by "Eleonora Scoseria" <eleonora-+AT+-www.multi.com.uy>
  8) Re: Surecrow's magic theory
	by Dave <jotsix-+AT+-aristotle.net>
  9) Re: taglines, Diana books?
	by bookluvr-+AT+-prairie.lakes.com
 10) Re: newbie
	by bookluvr-+AT+-prairie.lakes.com
 11) Re: newbie
	by Kenneth Allen Hyde <kenny-+AT+-UDel.Edu>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 16:24:10 GMT
From: Melanie Dymond Harper <mel>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Filk shops
Message-ID: <199801291624.QAA28518-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk>

Someone asked about places to buy filk in London: I've heard good things about
the shop At The Sign Of The Dragon, details dragged up from the FAQ and posted
below. I have not personally visited the place, I should add.

---start quote---

At The Sign Of The Dragon (131, Sheen Lane, London, United Kingdom SW14,
	+44 181 876 3855; Mortlake BR station and walk south).  Run by
	Richard and Marion van der Voort, is a small shop with a good
	selection of titles.  They rival (often beat) Forbidden Planet in
	early stocking of titles, and are happy to reserve and special order
	books. Will ship worldwide.  GMT

---end quote---


Mel

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:53:43 -0500 (EST)
From: Danielle May Marrone <dmarrone-+AT+-ic.sunysb.edu>
To: Mercedes Lackey Fan List <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: Help!
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.980129114816.328D-100000-+AT+-sparky>

Yes.  I yet again need help with finding books.  I have a book called 
The Fire Sword by (this is not exact) Adrienne Martiene-Barnes.  It is an
awesome book that I love and the book says the she had written others
(like the Rainbow Sword). Unfortunatlely, I forgot to take the book with
me for any exact information.  I got from a garage sale or some obscure
place many moons ago, so I can't go back there for reference.  

ObMisty:  I am rereading (for the hundreth time) The Black Gryphon.  I
haven't read it for awhile, and I had forgotten what a great book it is.


				Thanks
				ARI 


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 10:37:48 -0300
From: "Eleonora Scoseria" <eleonora-+AT+-www.multi.com.uy>
To: <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: RE: taglines, Diana books?
Message-ID: <000c01bd2cca$4b03d440$923463ce-+AT+-eleonora>

>K.S. wrote:
>>
>> I keep hearing persons talk about the Diana books.  What books exasctly
>> are they?  As far as I know I haven't read them yet.  Thanks


Dave replied:
>I can only guess you mean the Diana Tregarde (is that spelled right?)
>books, which so far as I know consist of "Burning Water", "Jinx High",
>and one other I can't remember the name of right now.  (they also tie in
>every so slightly to the Serrated Edge and other urban fantasy books)


The other one is Children of the Night, the only one I have actually read in
fact.
I liked it quite a lot...tho Diana whines too much IMHO <g>.

And before someone else says it <winks at Cennydd> even more so than Vanyel,
IMO. Of course, I have a slight crush on Vanyel and not on Diana which might
account for my cutting the Herald some slack <g>.

On another subject, re the Galileo Galilei quote going around, I assume more
than a few of you have seen Brecht's play "Galileo Galilei". If so, what
were your reactions to it? I am asking cause it was one of the first
"non-kids" plays I ever saw and I loved it. I was 13 or so at the time, and
that play kind of made me fall in love for the theatre. A love I still have
18 years afterwards. After that time I never saw it again (it was never
produced again in Uruguay to the best of my knowledge). And I am kind of
wondering if I overreacted to it, or other people find it as awesome =)

Huggles,

a rambling Ele
Councilor of Mist


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 12:54:35 -0500 (EST)
From: Kenneth Allen Hyde <kenny-+AT+-UDel.Edu>
To: Misty Lackey List <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk>
Subject: MIST: Copyright issues and the Council(was Re: Fan Fiction?)
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.980129124602.20781E-100000-+AT+-copland.udel.edu>

I'm posting this to the entire list because, after some discussion, it was
the consensus of the Council that the original author raised some issues
asked some questions that should be answered in public. 

If you are not interested in the fanfic/Copyright issue on the list and
are already aware of the status of the Council, you are more than welcome
to skip the whole thing and I hope that this post was not an
inconvenience.
 
On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, John Gold wrote:

> ....brought up by Prof. Hyde.

Just to clarify, I am not a professor.  I'm a grad student who is still
struggling through the hell of dissertation research. =)

Now to respond to some questions:

> > [snip] the list policy is "fanfic and fanfic discussions are not
> > allowed here." 
> 	1)  Does the above policy imply that the practice of fanfic does
> not exist, or simply that its relationship to the works of M. Lackey may
> not be discussed in this forum?

It implies that fan-fic does exist, but that the mercedes-lackey mailing
list is not a forum where either the product of fan-fic writing or a
discussion of that product is welcome (for legal reasons).  

Very specifically, Misty-based fanfic is verboten.  You could discuss
other fan-fic (based on authors who allow fan-fic), of course, but that
would be off-topic so you would probably want to include such discussions
with lots of on-topic subjects.  Posting fan-fic to the list would simply
be rude to everyone here and is against Mel's rules (no large files should
be posted to the list)

> 	5)  I may be mistaken (I don't believe so, but I might), but...
> 	" so long as any piece of work written is clearly marked as having
>	been wrote by someone other than the originating author, and is
>	never, I repeat, never offered for sale, barter, or physical
>	remuneration of any sort.  Such item is then considered to be an
>	exercise in literature by a student of creative writing.  (Estate
>	of R.A.Heinlein vs. Delores Martine, appeal pending)
> 	Or have I interpreted this ruling incorrectly?  If so, please
> 	inform me so that I may not make this intellectual faux pas in
>       the future.

This case may set a precedent, although what precedent it sets is unclear. 
Notice that it does not say that the work is not an infringement on the
original author's copyright (although it might qualify for the "Fair Use"
defense).  Also, it is not clear from the wording whether the work must be
produced by a student, or whether the author of the derivative work is
considered a student (regardless of their actual status) for the purposes
of this sort of a situation.

I'm not a lawyer, and certainly not a copyright lawyer, so I cannot make a
professional decision about that. However, the U.S. laws on copyrights are
quite specific and clear that derivative works are a violation of the
original authors copyright, whether they are offered for profit or
not:
	....the owner of copyright under this title has the exclusive
	rights to do and to authorize any of the following:
       (1) to reproduce the copyrighted work in copies or phonorecords; 
       (2) to prepare derivative works based upon the copyrighted work;
	....
			(U.S.C. Title 17 Section 106)

That's pretty clear, I think.  And it is my understanding that a court
precedent does not change the law, nor require that the court will find
the same verdict in a subsequent case (although they are more likely to). 
At least, that is my understanding of how that works.  (Hmmmm.  Charrach?
Are you still reading the list?  Care to comment?)

> 	7)  To avoid any further ill feelings on this subject, I do
> 	reitterate my request for all future replies to be sent to me at
> 	my private e-mail address to be found above.  All further
> 	questions will be ignored for fear of being bounced from this
> 	group.

You would not be bounced from the group. The only time someone is bounced
from the group is if they *violate* one of the list-owner's rules and are
obnoxious about it (the guy who kept using the list as a place to
"witness" his religious beliefs and put down other's beliefs despite
repeated requests to desist) or because they have done something that
damaged the server's system (a couple of people who caused the system to
overload and crash by sending 400K files to the list).  Disagreeing with
list policies, or questioning them, won't get you bounced unless a lot of
people complain and Mel tells you to shut up about it and you ignore her. 
At which point, since it is her list, she has the option of dumping you.
Although, I have to say that this has never happened in the 6 or so years
that the list has been around.

> 	I hope I will be forgiven this one question.  Kenny dear,  exactly
> who made you arbiter of list opinion anyway?  I really do wish to know.
> Were you asked by M.L. to be a referee, or is this elected/paid position?

I'm not the arbiter of list opinion.  However, I am one of the people (the
"Council of Mist") that Mel Dymond Harper has authorized to remind people
of the list rules and netiquette and to help newcomers figure out what is
up with the list.  Was it an elected position, no.  It was an appointed
one.  Ideally, the Council would not be necessary, but experience
continues to point out that not everyone is familiar with general
netiquette or has read the FAQ and the Rules of Thumb for the list.  And
even more people seem to think that the rules don't apply to them.  So,
rather than ending the list, Mel authorized a small group to become a sort
of "regulatory committee" with the goal of keeping things down to a dull
roar.  Copyright stuff just happens to be my bailiwick, when it comes to
problematic topics on the list, mostly because I was willing to do the
research and put together information.  Other people on the Council
specialize in other things, and we all take turns greeting newbies (who
announce themselves)  and pointing people in the direction of the FAQ and
answering questions. 
 
May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit,

Cennydd
Councilor of Mist

Kenneth Allen Hyde     |  No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife
Univ. of Delaware      |  between the shoulder blades will seriously
Dept. of Linguistics   |  cramp his style  -- Old Jhereg proverb
kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu         |  A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me

//www.ling.udel.edu/hyde/prof/ken.html





------------------------------

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 22:05:07 -0800
From: skyfire-+AT+-t-online.de (skyfire)
To: ML mailing list <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: blurbs
Message-ID: <34D01C13.44692759-+AT+-t-online.de>

Amber wrote:

> Wouldn't THAT be the ultimate job???  "You
> have to sit and read all these books and write a short little blurb for the
> back... And we'll pay you lots of money for it too!"  I think I like the
> thought of that... anyone know where I can get a job like that?????>


Heheh.  Why do I have the feeling that unfortunately it doesn't work
that way? 
I imagine the blurb-writers get paid by the book, not by the hour. Or
they get a stack of 10 books in the morning with the boss saying "I want
all the blurbs on my desk by this afternoon." Then they start leafing
through the books, trying to make out the plot and some details... 
The blurbs of LHM certainly look like they've been written that way. 

And then go ahead and imagine that the cover art is based on the *blurb*
-- makes sense for a lot of ahem, off-topic covers. (Note please that
I'm not saying the cover illustration actually *is* based on the blurb;
I don't know if it is). 

Walk in beauty


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 14:00:41 -0700
From: Adrienne Metz <ametz-+AT+-u.arizona.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: newbie
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980129140041.006e93b4-+AT+-pop.u.arizona.edu>

>  Other people on the Council
>specialize in other things, and we all take turns greeting newbies (who
>announce themselves)  and pointing people in the direction of the FAQ and
>answering questions. 
> 
>May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit,
>
>Cennydd
>Councilor of Mist
>
Hey, I announced myself and never got greeted!  *slight pout (grin and wink)*

I'm currently reading _The Silver Gryphon_ and cannot seem to get throught it.  I'm stuck in about the third chapter and I've been working on reading it for 3 weeks now.  Part of my problem is that I've started yet another semester of school, with more units than the last several semesters, plus trying to do several other things like plan a wedding, create a webpage, and work.  However, this book is taking much longer to read than what is usual for me even under those conditions.  For those who have gotten past the third chapter, if I put it down and started the storm series, would I be missing much?  Since I bought it, I'm sure at some point I'd go back and read it.  I just don't like to miss references because I haven't read the book the reference is to.

Adrienne
ametz-+AT+-u.arizona.edu
*********************
no way construction of this tricky plan
was built by other than a greater hand
with a love that passes all our understanding
watching closely over the journey
"the wood song" -- indigo girls

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 18:56:20 -0300
From: "Eleonora Scoseria" <eleonora-+AT+-www.multi.com.uy>
To: <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: RE: newbie and magic and water
Message-ID: <001201bd2d00$bf3f79a0$aa3463ce-+AT+-eleonora>

Adrienne Metz wrote:

>Hey, I announced myself and never got greeted!  *slight pout (grin and
wink)*


Ooops! really? one of us must have slipped. We do try to do our best tho,
so....in the best Mishi like fashion...

Ele takes a running start and POUNCES Adrienne belatedly <g>.
How did that feel? hmm? I did put some cushions behind you ;-)

For those who don't remember her, Mishi is the Goddess of Hyperness and
Overbubliness who used to POUNCE newbies, long before the council got
started.

Seriously, tho, we do our best to greet those who announce themselves and
send them a "welcome to the madness" email with pointers to the newbiefest
and the abbrev list =). However, since we all have other commitments we are
sometimes sort of swamped and we may go delete-happy.

So, since there may be lurking newbies around and since people have been
asking about abbrevs, here there are two links that are hopefully useful.

http://www.ling.udel.edu/hyde/pers/misty/newbiefest.html

http://www.ling.udel.edu/hyde/pers/misty/abbrev.html



>>I'm currently reading _The Silver Gryphon_ and cannot seem to get throught
it.  I'm stuck in about the third chapter and I've been working on reading
it for 3 weeks now. <<

Well, the same thing happened to me, tho I did not even try for 3 weeks. It
is still in my bookcase waiting until I am in the mood and/or have nothing
else to read. From what I have heard from what seems to be list consensus,
you are not missing much, and the Storms books are interesting.

John Morris aka Surecrow commented on the lack of response to his
interesting theories. I have to agree with Cen that we should have a
graveyard for potentially interesting topics that never make it. Personally,
I meant to reply, I have not yet deleted the msg, but I am kind of swamped
at present. For the record, I was one of those who was interested in
discussing the genetics of mage and other gifts. But that's another topic
for the graveyard, I fear.

Well, enough rambling from me, back to work it is.

Peace,

Ele
Councilor of Mist




------------------------------

Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 22:57:28 -0600
From: Dave <jotsix-+AT+-aristotle.net>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Surecrow's magic theory
Message-ID: <34D15DB8.52ED-+AT+-aristotle.net>

Ailsa Reid wrote:

> I like the theory, but wasn't a lot of the magic poured into the void at the
> end of SB? So wouldn't that mean that if it does re-form into leys etc,
> they'll either be much rarer or much weaker than in pre-Storm times.

Actually if I followed the therory that the characters in SB were using
then the magic that went into the void would slowly leak back into the
normal world.  I'd have to go back and look to be sure but it seemed to
me that the characters in the book put forward a fairly complete theory
about it at the time.  Not necisarily the right one, they could have
been wrong after all.  They didn't really know for sure.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 05:02:09 +0000
From: bookluvr-+AT+-prairie.lakes.com
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: taglines, Diana books?
Message-ID: <199801301103.FAA20819-+AT+-Prairie.lakes.com>

> I keep hearing persons talk about the Diana books.  What books exasctly
> are they?  As far as I know I haven't read them yet.  Thanks!

The Diana Triegard books are set in a universe that LOOKS
like modern day (70's to present), real-life world.
However, Magic works, Vampires are real (both physical and 
psychic), and other various strange fairytale type creatures 
pop up unexpectedly.  
The explination for this is that Most people in the world
don't see what they don't expect.  So, if a 'boggle' shows up,
they think they are imagining things, or tripping, or something. :)

It is the same universe as the SERRAted Edge books, and the
Urban Fantisies books.  (sorry about the spelling in this post...)

I really like this universe, and I own all the books I have been
able to find at the local bookstores. :)

Sheri

Sheri Graber Rector 
roseleaf-+AT+-prairie.lakes.com,  bookluvr-+AT+-prairie.lakes.com
Fibromyalgia and Chronic Fatigue Resources Site
http://prairie.lakes.com/~roseleaf/fibro/index.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 05:02:04 +0000
From: bookluvr-+AT+-prairie.lakes.com
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: newbie
Message-ID: <199801301103.FAA20832-+AT+-Prairie.lakes.com>

> I'm currently reading _The Silver Gryphon_ and cannot 
> seem to get throught it.  I'm stuck in about the third 
> chapter and I've been working on reading it for 3 
> weeks now.   this book is
> taking much longer to read than what is usual for me 
> even under those conditions.  For those who have gotten 
> past the third chapter, if I put it down and started the 
> storm series, would I be missing much? Since I bought 
> it, I'm sure at some point I'd go back and read it.  
> I just don't like to miss references because I 
> haven't read the book the reference is to.
> Adrienne

There aren't many references to Silver Gryphon's 
'happenings' until you get to Owlflight, however,
It DOES get more interesting after the first few chapters.

I think it might be best if you tried reading it as a
stand alone story... It is very self contained.

I like it, but then I have some odd notions. :)
Sheri

Sheri Graber Rector 
roseleaf-+AT+-prairie.lakes.com,  bookluvr-+AT+-prairie.lakes.com
Fibromyalgia and Chronic Fatigue Resources Site
http://prairie.lakes.com/~roseleaf/fibro/index.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 11:36:32 -0500 (EST)
From: Kenneth Allen Hyde <kenny-+AT+-UDel.Edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: newbie
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.980130113243.1161D-100000-+AT+-copland.udel.edu>

On Thu, 29 Jan 1998, Adrienne Metz wrote:

> Hey, I announced myself and never got greeted!  *slight pout (grin and
> wink)*

Oh dear!  Well, "hello!" =)

The Mage prepares himself by transforming his robes into something less
liable to become damaged in the incipient enthusiasm and...

P * O * U * N * C * E * S

Adrienne.  

If anyone feels left out, please let me know and I will be happy to pounce
you too! (Especially any cute Stefen clones <weg>.)

May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit,

Cennydd
The Mage of Green Silences (and flirtatious ecdysiastic pouncer of
newbies and cute guys)

Kenneth Allen Hyde     |  No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife
Univ. of Delaware      |  between the shoulder blades will seriously
Dept. of Linguistics   |  cramp his style  -- Old Jhereg proverb
kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu         |  A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me

//www.ling.udel.edu/hyde/prof/ken.html



------------------------------

End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1472
**********************************