MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1493 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Friendship ring-fluff by AERDEN-+AT+-delphi.com 2) shields by Clare Fiander 3) Companions Avatars of Which Diety? by "Robbie Betts" 4) Friendship Ring story post (long) by "Fallenangel" 5) Re: Leareth/Krebain by SamanthaMS-+AT+-aol.com 6) Re: shields by "Raven Darkblade" 7) And the ring goes to.... by Niki Nibbe 8) by troll-+AT+-netcomuk.co.uk 9) Re: And the ring goes to.... by Ambyrglow-+AT+-aol.com 10) Braid--Tags, List, Story... by "Andi WindDancer" 11) Re: shields by "QuickStar" 12) Re: Talia/Friendship Ring Festival by "Angie" 13) Re: genetics/Talia and 'Lendyl/More braid by brianben-+AT+-worldnet.att.net 14) Repudiation cont'd (Long, but please read!!) by "John E Morris" 15) Repudiation.... by Sheridan Hoy 16) Braid: Genetics+Repudiation+a request by Sorchafyr-+AT+-aol.com 17) Vengeance/repudiation//OT-Wicca by Niki Nibbe ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 11:48:09 -0500 (EST) From: AERDEN-+AT+-delphi.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Friendship ring-fluff Message-ID: <01ITKHP1JQ8I966EOW-+AT+-delphi.com> Aerden the Healer winces as the strangely-moded music blasts into the air. He's never heard anything like it. Still, it does have a good beat. In the back of his mind, his Author whispers a suggestion, and Aerden calls out to Blade, "Say, do you know anything by Renaissance? 'Black Flame,' maybe? Or 'Mother Russia?'" A bubble pops just below his nose and Aerden grins. "Chilled sparkling wine. Lovely!" Chantal ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 18:28:38 +0000 From: Clare Fiander To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: shields Message-ID: I thought that shields were keyed into their makers, so how come Firesong could get rid of the Heartstone's protections so easily? ________________________________________________________________________ Rainbow 'And still the forest of the North guards Valdemar from harm- For Vanyel's dying curse is stronger far than mortal arm. And every year the Chosen come, despite the old advice- "All those who would be Magic's Pride must then pay Magic's Price" ' ~Magic's Price Written by Stefen Magic's Price ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 11:55:45 PST From: "Robbie Betts" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Companions Avatars of Which Diety? Message-ID: <19980214195548.1751.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> The Companions are avatars of all the Gods and Goddesses in Velgarth. If you will remember the founding of Valdemar (Arrows of the Queen Trilogy) they were discussing it and one of the students in Talia's class said that Baron Valdemar prayed to all of the Gods (I think all of the Goddesses too), and was answered with a Companion... Sorry textev is not available (can't find the books) :( Robbie ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 15:55:46 -0000 From: "Fallenangel" To: Subject: Friendship Ring story post (long) Message-ID: <006701bd3961$0466d160$348185a1-+AT+-skkohnkedelta.edu> FallenAngel looks up from her discussion of the Story Circle as someone taps her on the shoulder. "Can I come?" a young woman who FallenAngel remembers as Kas asks. "Why, of course," she replies, "You're the first that's asked! I would be happy to have you join me." The young woman smiles and moves off with the others, her lamb following her. FallenAngel smiles to herself and returns to her pile of papers. :Why are you still working?: :Oh, there you are, Isis: she replies to the great panther. :I was wondering where you had slunk off to.: :Just to the rest of the party. You missed the Presentation of the Ring to Lady Niki: "Ohhh....I forgot that was tonight!" :And you haven't answered my question.: FallenAngel looks down at the pile of messages, all marked urgent. :I really don't know. It's been so long, I hardly remember.: Isis yawned, her long, sparkling white incisors gleaming. She raises one great paw and with a single swipe, brushes all her bondmate's papers off the table. "Well," FallenAngel says out loud, "I guess that settles that!" With a grin, she stands and turns back toward the Main Hall, where the others are currently eating dinner. :That will never do: Isis scolds, staring at her clothing. :Jeans and a tye-dyed Grateful Dead T-shirt, really!: :Is this any better?: FallenAngel smiles at her bondmate and raises her arms. She began to shimmer as if a thousand stars were sparkling within her skin, radiating a opalescent glow until the far corner where she had been lurking began to shine. People on the edge of the gathered crowd in the Great Hall turned to look, shielding their eyes against the light. Suddenly the light shrank to a manageable glow that was no brighter then what any of the assorted Mages and Deities wore as an adornment. FallenAngel shook the folds out of her bright red silk dress as it fluttered in the slight breeze. She folded her dark maroon wings tight against her back, semi-conscious of the questioning looks she was receiving. Glancing down at Isis, she sent a thought ripe with lemon-flavored amusement. :Aren't YOU going to dress?: Isis growled deep in her throat. :I just KNEW you were going to get me for making you to change!: she complained. Still growling softly, she began to shimmer, hilighting their corner of the Hall. She completed the transformation without the display that FallenAngel had given off, and ended with a smug glance in her bondmate's direction. :Show-off.: Isis only purred in response to the comment :You've only had more experience. Give me a century, and I'll be able to do the same.: :Be a fast learner,: Isis advised, :and you MAY last that long.: FallenAngel snorted at the panther's grin. :Nothing's going to happen in the Halls of Mist. THEY can't get through to here. All the Goodwill and Love is a mightier barrier then the strongest steel.: Isis purred in response as the tall woman brushed dark red curls off her shoulder and walked toward the Hall, her winged black panther bondmate treading gracefully at her side. As they passed a shadow, it made a quick movement that caused the companions to whirl in anticipation of an attack. "Well," FallenAngel murmured in surprise as she gazed at what her own glow revealed. "Who is he for?" Isis just smiled in answer as the winged tiger cub vanished into the Main Hall. Suddenly she lifted her head, listening as an interesting sound floats out of the Hall. :Do I hear Karioke?: I just HAD to get my two cents in! *And yes, cats CAN grin. Mine does all the time!* Catching up on my e-mail, FallenAngel With a host of furious fancies Whereof I am sole commander, With a burning spear, and a horse of air, To the wilderness I wander. By a knight of ghosts and shadows I summoned am to tourney Ten leagues beyond the wide world's end. Methinks it is no journey. ~~From Tom O' Bedlam's Song by Anon ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 16:20:40 EST From: SamanthaMS-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Leareth/Krebain Message-ID: <4195ad08.34e60aaa-+AT+-aol.com> I dunno about Krebain being Maar since as someone else (sorry but I forget your name) said he was pretty untalented but maybe he was just the only body available at the time. Leareth though is definately Ma'ar in one of the storms books probably Warning or maybe Rising An'desha is going through Falconsbane's memories and past incarnations and mentions one named Leareth or some other obvious reference that made me think Leareth right away. i can't find the quote at the moment but I'm looking Samantha bard in training ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 14:01:57 PST From: "Raven Darkblade" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: shields Message-ID: <19980214220158.9396.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> Rainbow queried: <> If you're referring to the Haven heartstone, Vanyel gave the 'keys' to the shields to Firesong, Elspeth, and (I think) Darkwind. Zha'hai'allav'a, Raven Darkblade, Holy Hand of the Goddess of Elves \ \\ \%, ,' , ,. \%\,';/J,";";";;,,. \%;((`);)));`;;,., ,`;))((;`,`((;(;;);;,` ;`((```))`~ ``; );(;));;, `-+AT+- `(( `), (;;);;;;` / `) `` /;~ `;;;;;;;);, / , ` ,/` / (`;;(;;;;, (o /)_/` / ,);;;`;;;;;`,, `~` `~` ` ``;, ``;" ';, `' `' `' abbykat-+AT+-hotmail.com http://www.angelfire.com/ky/Ashke/ http://dragonlance.justbecause.org/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 15:08:57 -0800 From: Niki Nibbe To: Mercedes Lackey Discussion Subject: And the ring goes to.... Message-ID: <34E62408.229BC6F1-+AT+-earthlink.net> First I will wish you all a happy valentine's day -- personally, not one of my favorite days, but perhaps I'm a bit grumpy today. ********************************** [Word of warning, it's kinda long....] Flushed and slightly out of breath, Niki jumps off the dance floor. "Boy, that was fun," she thinks to herself. Imagine, swing dancing to the Talking Heads. Looking out onto the floor, she smiles at what she sees. Everything from shimmering faeries to rather grungy-looking students. What a delightful crowd. And wolves and panthers, among other delightfully ferocious creatures, oh my. "And these must be special sheep, because they have yet to turn tail and run at the sight of all these predators." She still has to remind herself from time to time that she isn't dreaming. She has really enjoyed herself this past week. She wonders if anybody else here realizes a week has passed. Time seems to move differently here. The dancing and partying has been fun, but she realizes she's about at the end of her social rope. She is a solitary person by nature; although she adores her listsibs and has drunk deep of their company, she realizes she will soon have to flee the closeness. She thinks briefly that perhaps something interesting will happen to end the party...but then remembers that it is not always wise to wish for interesting. In fact, isn't it a curse in some cultures? Oh well. Time to change the atmosphere a bit... Niki approaches Shadowblade and asks her to play some Dead Can Dance. While she intends to make her transfer of the ring a private moment, she feels it will be more appropriate if the general mood is a bit more mellow. "Oh, and thanks so much for the giggle bubble. Haven't tasted that Turkish Coffee Ice Cream since the little place on Vermont closed down." And now she has run out of delaying tactics. She must find a listsib to bestow the ring upon. "Hm...bestow upon or upon whom to bestow?" She's always being distracted by things grammatical. In fact, she's amazed at how the group has caused her to relax. Once upon a time, seeing typos or *gasp* making them was horrific to her. But being amongst these people, learning of the Deiyst fo oTTYpos, has helped her to relax. Of course, she'd always be a proofreader at heart -- "and right now it's the only thing keeping me fed, at least until I can train myself to my real calling. But back to the dilemma at hand." She has thought and thought on who to make the next Bearer of the Ring. And the more she thinks, the more confused she gets. Should she pass it on to another newbie? After all, it's a lovely way to welcome someone into our company. But if she does that, what if precedent gets set and only newbies ever get to wear the ring? That wouldn't be right. She has also been tempted to bestow the ring upon one of her closer friends. "Stasia hasn't been feeling well, and she's really been a good friend to me since I got here. I would love to offer the ring to her." Of course, she's struck up private conversations with a couple of other very dear people as well, and so even giving it to someone she's close with becomes a difficult proposition. Plus, it doesn't seem right -- seems like the ring should cross some distances, perhaps, bring more people into the fold. So she wonders about those lurking in the shadows. For her suspicions have been confirmed -- there are lurkers out there. She knows what it is to be on the fringes, and to watch rather than participate. Why, she has spent most of her life observing, hanging back, enjoying the goodwill and comraderie of groups of friends without actually partaking of it. And so she is torn: now that she has felt the acceptance and goodwill of these people, a part of her wants to grab every one of those lurkers and somehow drag them into the light. Yet another part of her understands and accepts that each lurker will do as his or her or its soul dicatates, and she will have to be patient. So she will continue to watch the shadows out of the corner of her eye, ready to welcome any delurkers. But she will not force the issue by presenting a ring which would result in rather high visibility. She continues debating this dilemma in her head -- or is she? Niki suddenly realizes she's been talking to herself again. She looks around sheepishly, but nobody seems to have noticed. "Whew. I guess there are enough people here with mindspeech that they assumed I was arguing with somebody else." As a result of looking around, Niki realizes that she has moved across the Hall. "Funny, I don't remember heading this way." As she approaches a warrior from a far-off land, she realizes that all her fretting was for nothing. The realization comes to her that, while she is free to choose whomever she will, if she will not make the choice, then the Ring will! She finds herself standing before the Warrior. She is awed by the strength she feels in this woman. *She seems a bit shy. Well, this ring should help with that.* "You are well come, warrior. I have worn this ring for the past week, and it has provided me with warmth and friendship. I wish to offer the wearing of the ring to you. You being a warrior, and me being...well, let's just say I'm a student of the world, I think we might both wish to forego the ceremony which the some mages and other magic-workers here seem to prefer. Do you wish the ring?" The Warrior silently nods her head. "Then wear this ring in friendship. I think I will quote the Mage of Green Silences, since I know little about magic of his kind, and suspect there may be some power in the words of giving: "This ring is yours to wear and enjoy. At the end of the approaching week, I ask, however, that you pass this ring on to someone else on the list to spread the enchantment of friendship. And in the giving you will receive back threefold what is given. My thanks, Warrior, for what you have added to the list. May you enjoy the ring and give it in friendship." So saying, Niki removes the ring from her hand and places it upon the Warrior's. As she speaks the words and transfers the ring, she once again feels a warmth. She can't tell if there's a glow as well -- her ability to see energy is rather spotty, and right now she's wrapped in a sensation that transcends all her senses. As the intense sensation fades, Niki feels daring and gives the Warrior a hug, then dashes off. "Seems like I'm always dashing off." *Niki makes a mental note to overcome that last bit of shyness that she hasn't been able to shake.* Once she settles down, she realizes she herself has moved to the edge of the shadows. Hmm, she smiles as she thinks. "You can take the shadows out of the girl, but you can't take the girl..." She decides that she is going to make the most of her time and go talk to a couple of people. First she will stop to see Adrienne -- they waved to each other on the dance floor, but it was hard to get past all the people. And they both got sidetracked by some interesting discussions. Niki was very impressed with a number of points Adrienne made. In fact, Adrienne's points were well-thought out, and Niki was left wanting to just say "Me too; yeah, what she said..." And so Niki had wandered away, knowing that she and Adrienne would get a chance to chat when the time was right. *sigh* She never would have thought to wonder about genetics of mage gift, or dispersal of magic. Not that she was complaining. She might not have anything to add, and she might not be overly concerned with the answers, but she thoroughly enjoyed sifting through the points presented. Sure, she was a huge fan of fluff. Fluff is good, fluff is fun. But fluff is that much more fun if it arrives to leaven an otherwise heavy discussion. Balance, that's the key.... Right now what she really wanted to do was track down Aerden. And wasn't there another Healer here? In fact, some sort of warrior/healer? She definitely wanted to talk to these two. She had been a healer's apprentice previously, and was thinking it might be time to look for a new Master. Maybe here she would find someone who understood her need to work with more than her hands, and could help her to reach and manipulate that energy she could sense was just out of her reach.... ******************** {My apologies for shifting from present progressive to past, but damn it's hard to stay in the present. I only did it the first time because Cennyd did.} {Femmy, enjoy the ring in good health.} ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 03:26:16 GMT From: troll-+AT+-netcomuk.co.uk To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Message-ID: <199821532813118467-+AT+-netcomuk.co.uk> *A large troll clad in white robes and a flamboyant purple cloak glides around within the Hall of Mist, light gleaming from the golden ring on his left hand that marks him as a Troll Adept. His Mage-Sight and Empathy detect the passing of the Friendship Ring from one wearer to another. Putting forth his power, he conjures a large chocolate sheep for the delectation of the new Ring-Wearer.* Valentine's Day greetings to you all! May your day be happy and your sheep be coated in the finest chocolate! OBMisty: I got Owlflight last weekend and have now read it, HUGE thanks to all the listsibs who let me know it existed. In the list of other Misty books published by DAW in the inside front cover, it gives four upcoming titles: The Black Swan, Phoenix and Ashes, The Gates of Sleep, The Serpent's Shadow. Anyone know anything about these? Are they/will they be Velgarth books? Wind to thy wings, salt water to thy hair, light and love to thy days and chocolate sheep to thy homes, Muranog Shadowbane Troll Adept P.S. Liz, I lost your address while clearing out some old emails *blush* I'd love to meet up, please email me privately. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 22:43:44 EST From: Ambyrglow-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: And the ring goes to.... Message-ID: <70b25fd2.34e66472-+AT+-aol.com> Seashimmer listens to the music, fingers tapping. Although she can't really sing, she still enjoys listening. As she watches, the dancing pauses. Searching for the cause, she sees that the Lady Niki is passing on the Friendship Ring. Has it really been a whole week? She can't recall, no matter how hard she tries. A cheer fills the hall as the reciver accepts the gift. Then the dancing resumes in full swing. Something seems to be missing from the dancing, though. She smiles, realizing what it is. Setting down her wineglass, she mutters something under her breath and makes a pass in the air. A silvery fog follows her hand, and spreads out to fill the room. Satisfied, she picks up her drink again, and heads off to refill her plate with something to eat. Perhaps she can find some healers to shop-talk with on the way. (sorry it's so short) ^*^Claire Seashimmer Cowrie ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 19:55:16 PST From: "Andi WindDancer" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Braid--Tags, List, Story... Message-ID: <19980215035517.25418.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> Heyla all! First things first!!! OH MY GOODNESS! Shadowblade! Those tags were hilarious! I fell off the chair!!! I laughed soooo hard, and believe me that was painful, my throat hurts!!! Soooo funny!!! Thanks ! Second things second!!! Well, I love the story. love, love, love, love it. I just have this one small problem... I cant remember who's who!!! Any suggestions to how I could fix this? If you think it might help me to make a list of everyone who is involved and print it out and keep it with me when I check my mail, I would be happy to do so! Or if everyone wants to send me a short e-mail with their character's name and those associated with them, I would be happy to compile and post it!! One thing I ask is if you do this, send them to my AOL acount... Spiralivy-+AT+-aol.com. Makes it a whole lot easier on me!!!! thanks... Third things...uh...um...I forget!!!! I believe that I have the complete ListRingSaga, from Cennedd's origional post up until today's. As I read I keep the ones that have part of the saga in them, and delete the others (after responding to them in a separate email, of course). I THINK i have them all...I would be happy to cut and paste and bind them into one document (word processors are great, arent they!!) and send them to whoever wants them...just let me know...(actually I dont have alot of free time, this would just help me procrastinate gotta love procrastination!!) anyway, let me know!!! Fourth....uh... To all you guys on the other story thing (the one Fallenangel started) I apparently cant put multiple names into my e-mail thing, so I can send things to about three of you at a time. Please change my e-mail address on the lists to Spiralivy-+AT+-aol.com so I can talk to everyone. Sorry to all of you not involved, but this was the only way I could let all of them know!!! I vote for Method 1 !!!! uh...Tenth...? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Andi silently floats around the dancing crowd, laughing at the silly person singing Karoke... As she dashes out of the way of a man carring...custard... she notices a woman with a pegasus standing on the side of the dancefloor. Recognizing her as the one with the...multiple personality? problem she floats over and gives her a hug. "Better now?" The woman nods. "Welcome, then! Join the fun!" she winks at the Pegasus and floats off. She floats up to the balcony and sits, observing all the wonderful people, dancing, laughing, talking, being happy. From her perch up high she observes the passing of the Ring. She smiles to herself...and so it continues...she smiles approvingly, though no one sees... Floating down to the DJ she ponders the meaning of the Halls...why does everyone come here? Alighting softly behind the DJ she requests some music... "Got any Sarah McLachlann? How 'bout Loreena McKenitt? Clannad? Yeah, I know you cant dance to it, but..." Feeling satisfied about her music request she floats off to the garden. She loved the garden, it changed to fit the one who resided in it's needs. For her it held a giant Oak in the middle, an oak big enough for her to sit in comefortably. And of course she could still see into the hall, and wait for someone interesting to talk to her... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Well then...Happy Chocolate heart shaped red sprinkeled melt-in-your-mouth candie sheep to every listsib!!!! Andi (sometimes flower fairy) Tags (NOT for the weak at heart...) No one can stop an earthquake. Shift happens! Siss-Boom-Baa!: A cheerleader or an exploding sheep Magic is a foot in the door of Time. The person that posted the message has been sacked. - Monty Python Even a fool can govern if nothing happens - German proverb BAD COMMAND: "Oh, you've been a bad , bad , bad command" Humperdink! Humperdink! Humperdink! Humperdink! Humperdink! They tore holes in that small metaphysic we had woven over the ages. I'm sorry, I thought I had entered an alternate universe or something And God smote Egypt with a plague of zucchini Do camels make good pets? Drunk Borg: Resilience is floor tile. Wan'be sim'lated? Hamburgers can be vicious if they're only wounded. Did that robot say Zaphod Beeblebrox? - Ford Prefect Recursion (re kur' shun): n. See recursion. To err is human. To moo, bovine. My Pocket-Dragon squeeked when he read "ex-Dallas?," No, just another minute on the modem, and THEN you can call 911! "Never anger a dragon, for you are crunchy and go well with brie." "Bother," said Pooh as he forked over 20,000 New Yen for a bribe. "Say the secret word & be assimilated." Groucho of Borg Hmmm, that's funny - I don't remember ordering a dragon Not with MY cat, you don't! Cat, n. Small mammal with an attitude problem. --Andi ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 20:09:11 PST From: "QuickStar" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: shields Message-ID: <19980215040914.26537.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> >If you're referring to the Haven heartstone, Vanyel gave the 'keys' >to the shields to Firesong, Elspeth, and (I think) Darkwind. Well I just finnished reading the winds series so I thought I might be able to throw in my two cents here. IIRC it was only Firesong who was given the keys because there was that ceremony where Elspeth and Darkwind got to "meet" the heart stone, then after it had welcomed her she went on to build the shields around Haven with a comment about the fact that it was easy and a thought that there must've been some there before but they had decayed. However the shields on the Haven heartstone may have been seperate from the ability to draw from it's power I can't recall that bit. Anyone? *********************************************************** Wind to thy wings Sir Quickstar Defender of the Ladies in distress by decree of Sorana Shadowcat High Priestess of the Goddess of Unicorns *********************************************************** ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 12:09:41 +0800 From: "Angie" To: Subject: Re: Talia/Friendship Ring Festival Message-ID: <01bd39c7$8a207520$0100007f-+AT+-localhost> :loop. BEsides aren't Heralds supposed to be some kind of police/legislators? So :it was her duty to punish him. : :Wind to thy Wings :Shantaya Autumnleaf :Keeper of Cats and Friend of Jesters Yes, it IS Talia's duty to do such horrible stuff, and yes Rape is a terrible thing --- worse than death a thousand times over. But don't you feel that it is a bit excessive? Spiteful, even. Not a jail sentence, or a caning sentence, but Mind-rape. It comes really close to mis-using her abilities as an empath and as a Herald. Everyone is saying that it's OK to do this because Talia's a Herald and remains one, not repudiated by her Companion. What if Rolan only kept her on because he saw that Valdemar would need her in the future? (Read: Ancar) This is like the Vanyel-and-Yfandes situation we had before. Yfandes probably just kept Van on coz of the Leareth threat after Van killed all those bandits and the two innocents. It's the same thing. After the threat, the Companion could hardly repudiate the Herald for "no reason". *Shadowblade waits for the people of OAM to come after her with swords and teeth* +|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|++|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+ |+ :"Hullo", he says, "aren't you Shadowblade? Did you make those bubbles? They are :great! How did you generate them? Look, what I've brought you, it's mousse au :chocolate, very fine!" He puts the large bowl down on the table and digs too :spoons out of his motley garb offering one to Shadowblade. Shadowblade looks at the Chocolate..."I really shouldn't. Chocolate may contain caffeine...are you sure there's no caffeine?" Torell nodded, so Blade took a spoon and took a small bit of the mousse. "Mmmm! Hey! It tastes even better than my bubbles!!!" ;) "I'd better not have too much. I'm supposed to lose some weight!" The elven mage stared down at her waist. At 28 inches, it's far too big! ;) "About the bubbles? Well, thanx to Dax -- the Goddess of Elves and Unicorns for bestowing the ability on me. Hey! No-caloried sweets! what more can we want?" :"Would you play 'This Corrosion' by Sisters of Mercy for Shantaya, please? She :loves this kind of music!" he begs around a mouthful of mousse, his brown eyes :giving Shadowblade the look of a lonely puppy. "Hmm, OK. Since I got this message first..." She turns back to the mike as the Depeche Mode song faded off. "Yes people, it's time for yet another song. We are allowed two more song requests before Lady Niki needs a "Dead Can Dance" tune (frankly, I've never heard of them...but hell!)!!! Right here, we have our next song -- "This Corrosion" by Sisters of Mercy from Torell to Shantaya! Next up, we have "Mother Russia" by Renaissance -- a request by Aerden!" As the music volume is turned up, Blade turned back to Torell and Aerden. "OK, with the two of you?" She grins at their nods (you guys _can_ nod right?) Blade finally stands up after a week at the DJ chair. "Argh! My knees, my knees!" She grinned at Ana, who had so nicely asked to do some DJ-ing. "Introduce yourself as the next shift. I'll be nearby to introduce the Karaoke people!" Ana nods and settled down on a hastily conjured, leather-upholstered, reclining arm-chair (provided by Shadowblade--- much more comfortable than that plastic thing I was sitting on!) She conjures up a CD rack with carefully labelled partitions. "Here's the entire collection of the CDs that have ever been made in the world, and here's.." a cassette deck popped up, "the entire collection of songs that have not been recorded onto a CD!" With that, the black-robed elven-mage conjured her Blade home (Guess I won't need it here) and stepped into the dancing crowd. ( ) Wind to thy Wings ) ( Shadowblade mindmate to Raul <====+====> Elven Archer-Mage of Fairgrove >>~~~~~> | | High Priestess of the Goddess of the Elves | | High Priestess of OOPS, | | NoIsE ApPrENticE!!!!! | | Grand Dame of The Order of Namers | | Check out my homepage at ~> | | http://members.tripod.com/~Shadowblade | | (self-advertising, gotta hate it! ;)) | | "It's not my fault!" -- Han Solo \/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 00:20:34 -0500 From: brianben-+AT+-worldnet.att.net To: Subject: Re: genetics/Talia and 'Lendyl/More braid Message-ID: <19980215051738.AAA24232-+AT+-brianben> Elizabeth Hoffman said: > Here goes, Genetics is just like cooking (only sometimes I find > genetics easier). Thanks for the cooking analogy! It helped quite a bit, especially the part about one gene over-powering the other gene. Both being present but one remains undetected because the first one is so strong. > Carson wrote: > : We don't think of Talia as a rapist, but it's hard to classify > : that incident. Cruel and unusual punishment? Where do you draw the line > : between "This kind of rape is okay" and "This is bad." When it's meted out > : as a form of punishment, and the reciever gave at least as good as he got? > : Did Talia go too far? IMHO what Talia did was just because she only caused the guy to experience the same pain that he had caused. Plus she was merciful enough to give him a way out if he was man enough to take it. I don't recall the exact conditions but basically all he had to do to break free was to truly admit how horrible he was and how much pain he had caused. On the other hand Tylendel didn't care about justice. He just wanted other people to hurt as much as he did. ***************************More Story Braid*************************************** The song request start pouring into the D. J. booth and Shadow Blade is looking a little frustrated at being tied to the booth all evening. She blows a few more bubbles and ponders her situation. One of the bubbles floats over in ShadowWolf's direction. ShadowWolf walks over the the booth to see if Shadow Blade can possibly get away for a dance or two. Just about at the same time Ana comes up to the booth and whispers something in Shadow Blade's ear. Shadow Blade's expression brightens immediately as she catches sight of ShadowWolf making his way toward her. Before ShadowWolf can say anything she says "Quick, let's get out on the dance floor before Ana changes her mind." They walk out on the dance floor leaving Ana in charge of the booth for now. ***More story soon...*** ShadowWolf, God of Stupid Chess Moves Founder of OOPS, Bonded with Wesak --tawny eagle-- "My mind is going...I can feel it." --HAL-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 00:20:08 -0500 From: "John E Morris" To: Subject: Repudiation cont'd (Long, but please read!!) Message-ID: <01bd39d1$62178aa0$a7109cd1-+AT+-default> All good points, granted. However, my initial concern remains. The extreme lack of communication between Tylendel and Gala should have tipped her off. Companions seem to be preternaturaly aware of their Chosen's mental state, in a general sense if not a specific. The fact that Gala did nothing about Tylendel's depression still bothers me. <> Well, I don't personally believe in OT justice, but what matters here is the matrix of belief evinced by the text. As far as I can see, the Herald's world really DOES espouse the "eye for an eye" belief -- Talia locks the rapist into a mental loop, Skiff hunts down and tortures criminals, Elspeth slays Orthallen (a slightly different circumstance, I realize). It seems to me that the Velgarth code of justice is "Death for Death." <> This brings up another question -- Where were all the mind-healers? If the Collegium is host to a multitude of Heralds and Healers, then why wasn't there one Mind-healer among them? I don't believe for a minute that had Talia been around at that point that she wouldn't have known without a doubt that something was wrong with 'Lendel. << Thanks to Lendel blocking her out, all she knows is that he's done this terrible thing, and she can't imagine why, so she obviously doesn't know him.>> This brings up another really cool question...What exactly are the Companions abilities when Choosing someone? If the "measuring" sensation that is often felt by new Heralds when being Chosen is in fact, the Companion looking into the soul in question, does this mean that: A) The Companions have some infallible way to measure goodness (this seems to be the case) or B) The Companions base these judgements from their own prior experience as humans. This leads to a few possible conclusions. The first is that if A is correct, then Gala's repudiation was derived from direct knowledge of the state of Tylendel's soul. This would require an extreme change in personhood; that is, not just the temporary insanity we see in MPawn, but an alteration of his total character . After all, Gala should have been able to see, as any competent Kestra'chern would have, that Tylendel's state of mind was a temporary thing resulting from extreme outside stimulii. The second possible conclusion we can draw from this is that; if B is true, then how does one account for the seeming lack of repudiations if one does not consider Tylednel's? Are we to assume that if Companion's base their judgments of Chosen on normal, human criteria, that those judgements will not sometimes be flawed? Should there not, in this case, be, if not many more, at least a few more repudiations in the annals of Heraldic history? Sorry this got so long-winded, but I just love pursuing points of logic. Now, a disclaimer: I would hate for anyone to think that I didn't LOVE Magic's Pawn. It was this book that caused me to start reading the rest of ML's work. I remember taking it into the practice rooms in the music building of the college where my father teaches, oh-so many years ago. I would practice (the piano) for twenty minutes or so and then, unable to resist the insistent call for another minute, throw my music off the baby grand's cover and read for a while. The book remains one of my favorites and I still get choked up when I read the chapters in question. Still, the logician in me requires this exploration....just a little digression. JM ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 21:59:29 +1300 From: Sheridan Hoy To: "'mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk'" Subject: Repudiation.... Message-ID: <01BD3A5E.44CD8B60-+AT+-port56.ts1.auck.sinesurf.co.nz> John Morris wrote: The second possible conclusion we can draw from this is that; if B is true, then how does one account for the seeming lack of repudiations if one does not consider Tylednel's? Are we to assume that if Companion's base their judgments of Chosen on normal, human criteria, that those judgements will not sometimes be flawed? Should there not, in this case, be, if not many more, at least a few more repudiations in the annals of Heraldic history Well I have to put my two cents in on this one. I seem to remember reading somewhere that someone (maybe Vanyel) telling Elspeth that Gwena was Grove-Born, but that did not make her infallible, and that she was younger than most and did make mistakes. Someone please correct me if I got it wrong, and sorry no text. Also, if we look at the Companions, they are former Heralds, therefore unless guided by the Gods and Goddesses of Velgath, how can they be infallible?. I will be interested in the replies. Wind to thy Wings tamlin ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 06:14:31 EST From: Sorchafyr-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Braid: Genetics+Repudiation+a request Message-ID: <66861e93.34e6ce19-+AT+-aol.com> Heyla to all: Aldric writes: > I don't think Misty was thinking in terms of, "Now, would this >character need this gene to get those gifts, or what". I think she was >writing "Fantasy". Things that are sometimes totally unthinkable, but they >are written so well that they seem like real people/place. >Maybe I deserve to be pounced for writing such ideas, but that is my thought. simple headed mind) very difficult and for some(me) very difficult to >understand what you are talking about sometimes. I think you are correct in that Misty did not set up her world to include "the genetics of gifts", but the point is that if you are a talented writer, and set up a world that is so real (as you seem to agree), the readers as fans can apply their real life knowledge to this world and make it even more real for everyone. This is not the same as violating copywright, just exploring aspects of a created world. After all our "real" world contains people who are knowledgeable on various subjects and ignorant on others, so if I wanted to know about, say, sanitation in this "real" world I could find out. If Misty's world is "real" within the context of her fantasy setting, we could find out about sanitation there. (and if I didn't want to, I could skip any messages with "sanitation" in the subject. ) It is precicely because he world feels so real to us that we debate things which are reality and must be present in any reality whether they are mentioned in the story or not. Oh dear, I hope I haven't risen too high on a soap box, or gotten on a high horse, or any other mixed-type metaphor you wish to use. I tend to get wordy explaining things, fearing if I don't people won't understand, when what I end up doing is boring them to death. **************************************************************************** One point which has not been brought up in the repudation issue is that Skiff FELT BAD about what he did, although he is not sure he would not do it again. He does feel it's a sort of justice, and the person deserved it, however he does have enough moral sense to know he may be treading dangerous ground. When Gala repudiated 'Lendel, he was "convinced" he was right and had no qualms about his convictions. I believe the death bell tolled for him because he did realize at the end (after Gala's death) that there was some question after all, and he was coming out of his "temporary insanity". This would neatly answer the problem of Talia and other questionable acts performed by Heralds without repudiation, the ability of each Herald to weigh their acts according to a moral code and anguish about the underlying morality of it, wondering if they were really doing the best that they could. The sense of being responsible to a higher moral code is present, whereas in the case of Tylendel it (temporarily) was not. Make of this what you will, it's my take on the situation, and my thanks for bringing it up, I had not wondered why there was no repudiation...although this does not explain Yfandes and Vanyel, he was just as "temporarily insane" as Tylendel; but then given her actions, perhaps 'Fandes was also. **************************************************************************** And finally a small request. My thanks to whomever suggested so softly that quotes should be limited when replying to a message, it was a timely thought. I hope I can as gently ask if you are replying to a message, could you please put an indication in the subject line of what your message is about? I know it is easy to hit reply and type your message, but if you are not interested in, say, the genetics thread, and you want to skip those messages, it is easier to find them if it is indicated. And I have a very short memory and don't remember what "A braid" or "Hello" is really talking about sometimes. If you want to reply to one subject on a braid, please rename it. I am not sure any of this came out sounding friendly, although it was really meant with the best intent. If I came to dinner at the Ring party right now, I would end up giving you all a handful of germs and sitting down with a fever (Fever, fever who...) so I will enjoy watching you all in my mirror until I am healthy again. Sorchafyr ********************************************************************** Experts not been able to agree on whether it is more beneficial to give a bounce than to recieve it, but the Forest has agreed that Tigger had best concentrate on bouncing only at those who like getting bounced, such as Tigger's shadow, which puts up with it, and Roo, who entirely enjoys it. Beginners who wish to attempt it might want to get into open country first, so as not to risk any Bouncing Hazards. --Ethan Mordden "Pooh's Workout Book" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 04:02:56 -0800 From: Niki Nibbe To: Mercedes Lackey Discussion Subject: Vengeance/repudiation//OT-Wicca Message-ID: <34E6D96F.934D3063-+AT+-earthlink.net> *sigh* Trying so hard to simply lurk. It's 3 am, and I should be abed. However, must make a couple of points. On the eye-for-an-eye question. Yes, there does seem to be a certain eye-for-an-eye aspect about Valdemaran justice. But keep in mind that each of the examples everybody's tossing out is for people who have harmed, and if not stopped would harm again. "Kill and be killed" is a bit simplistic. Also, remember that Talia is never completely at rest about her decision to stick the rapist (of his two stepdaughters, children) in the mind loop. Even into the next book, she is still weighing the decision. And remember she touched his mind, and knew that he would do the same all over again if given the chance. About Skif and the torture, I'm not sure. But IIRC, we aren't given all the details, so that's a tougher call to make. Keep in mind that you don't see these things happening left and right -- only in a couple of extreme cases. It's not like Misty mentions them offhandedly, like they were little asides that should be accepted and forgotten. No, she makes a point of them. They bring up important questions. The whole question of prison vs. reform vs. vengeance. And so these books on occasion pose these questions. Now, considering that we're dealing with FICTION, an author can be a bit more black and white, posing things in terms of absolute good or evil, at one moment, then move to grayer areas when she feels like it. So with the rapist, we are shown that his emotional touch is evil and demented and thrives on ugliness and fear. Personally, I'm not a vengeance person. And to clarify for those who haven't read it in a while, she set up the loop so that he would have to live his stepdaugter's memories of the rapes over and over. If he ever discovered remorse, he would be broken of the loop. Someone mentioned that it seemed like this could never happen simply because he's in so much pain and agony. IMNSHO, he's simply seeing things from his daughter's side, and Talia has left his own mind intact, just caught him up in his daughter's emotions. So who's to say he won't eventually feel disgust at person doing the terrible things, then, as the man inside the emotions, feel remorse? Improbable, but that's how I see it set up. So here's my question to you who keep saying you're not eye-for-an-eye: What would you have done? Lock him up? What would locking up that man have done? Would he have been locked away in a prison for his whole life? Valdemar doesn't seem to have an extensive prison system. Should the community shoulder the burden of looking after him day after day? And how else to keep the people safe? I suppose execution might have worked. In fact, in each of the cases, the real question isn't "murder-and-be-murdered," but whether or not the perpetrators ought to have been given clean, painless deaths rather than being put through what they put their victims through. Yikes. What I'm trying to say is that when I read these things, I assumed Misty was throwing them out there for consideration, sort of reflecting on issues that might have been in her mind. Hell, authors often put down very intense, severe stuff in their writing to help them work through something that wouldn't ever allow them such intensity and severity in their real life (incest or abuse survivors perhaps writing about a fictional character whose parent then dies in a really grisly way, or something). Enough about that. My other point was about Companions and choosing and stuff. I still stick by my interpretation of Gala's "I do not know you" as this: She was unaware that he had snapped; all she knew was that he had done this incredibly horrific thing. She did not know why he had done this. And as for whether they are either fallible because they're human reincarnations or else able to infallibly register goodness: They are not gods or goddesses; they are more than human, but less than deities. They have a certain divine aspect, and their abilities are outside the realm of humans. They are also fallible. And they are not omnicient. Plus, they're not supposed to intervene. Now, first of all, with the exception of Karal's Sun God, the deities we've seen have been rather hands-off, except in rare situations. So it would follow that a deities' deputies (or whatever the Companions are -- they might be a bit different, but they're similarly situated: the main difference being that avatars seem to be in contact with their deity, and we've never been shown the Companions interacting with one such. So sure, there are anamolies. But Companions are not gods; yet Misty has constantly implied that they are much more than extra-smart horses, or even simply reincarnated humans muddling along in their second lifetime.) would follow the same precept. Second of all, I think Heralds are chosen on many criteria -- very largely on whether they in particular will be needed. (You know, each ability only showing up when it's about to be needed, etc.) But in Arrows (can't remember which one), it is made clear that if Talia somehow died or otherwise failed, Roland would go out and search again. So although yes, Vanyel was going to be needed, I don't think it was simply pragmatic. His Companion saw some basic goodness in him, and knew he could be a true Herald. I strongly disagree that he was simply chosen because he was needed, and otherwise would have been shown the door. The former, yes; the latter, no. Or, to put it a different way, yes, he was chosen because he was needed. But not just his mage gift, everything he was. Including his heart and soul. But then, isn't that why all Heralds are chosen -- because they are needed by Valdemar? Personally, I think all of Vanyel's flaws or quirks are what make him endearing. {Yipes, that didn't come out right.} I like that Misty's very good people are also sometimes stupid, or selfish or self-absorbed, or vain, or whatever. Not all the time, of course. First, it makes them human and more realistic. Second, I'd quickly get bored of a character without all those twists and turns (can you say tension-creating device? Geez, if everyone knew what they should know, when they should know it, and didn't have any personal hangups keeping them from knowing it, Velgarth wouldn't provide much of a story.) Okay, so Vanyel isn't warm and cuddly and big brother to all humanity. Having a good heart and loving your people doesn't necessarily mean being Mr. Rogers. Oh dear. I guess I was just surprised when I found out there were people who thought Vanyel was whiny, etc. I had always just thought of him as a regular guy, with the weight of the world on his shoulders. Now, the part about young companions having to learn about the world is interesting. Are all Companions reborn Heralds, or only some? And finally, some food for thought: Maybe it's just that Misty emphasizes different aspects of the Companions, or of the Heralds, as it suits her stories. I mean, she's been writing over a number of years, and her beliefs and view of the world have obviously changed (Once again, read the Last Straw). Changes and anomalies in her characters might simply parallel or reflect changes in the way Misty thinks of her characters. So perhaps what was once black and white, good vs. bad, starts to become a bit cynical. Or deities become more fallible. You get the picture. So I think we'll always find little things that don't gel perfectly over the series, little emphases that imply a different way of regarding the characters and their role in society and their abilities and stuff. Wow. Sorry to go on a rampage. Think I'll sign off for now. Thanks for the chocolate. Yumm. **** The Lady Niki glides up to Ana to request a few songs. "Hi. I'd like to second a request for Sara McLachlan and Loreena McKennit. Specifically, Ice and Tango to Evora. Both of those CD's have been played so often, they skip and don't let me listen to the whole song. Oh, and while we're doing women, could you play Language or the Kiss by Indigo Girls? And then, I'd like to request some Garth Brooks for my dear friend Stasia, who's been under the weather. Of course, I'm not requesting all of them now. Just...when you get a chance? Or maybe I'll do Karaoke to the Indigo Girls, if I can get a partner for the harmonies and stuff." **** -- Lady Niki, First Bearer of the Ring and sometimes writer of oblique arguments ******************** This is way, way, way OT, but I was hoping someone out there might be able to help.... I'm taking a class on the anthropology of religion, magic and witchcraft. I've narrowed my paper down to either something on Wicca or something on healing. But if it's healing, I'll have to narrow that down to healing within one belief system. My assignment is to interview somebody with non-mainstream religious beliefs about their beliefs, the role of their religion in their life, etc. Any Wiccans out there? I've got one friend here in LA, but I was hoping to hear from a couple of different people, since it seems to differ slightly from person to person. Or anybody out there whose beliefs are entwined with healing? (And as an example, she's even accepting astrology and numerology, so the belief system doesn't have to even be based on deities.) Sorry again. Hope I haven't offended. This isn't even fluff. :Fluff, fluff! Let's play in the fluff!: Oops, there's that voice again. Haven't figured out where it's coming from yet.... ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1493 **********************************