MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1507

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Short braid/welcome
	by Niki Nibbe <madlink4-+AT+-earthlink.net>
  2) fluff and OT stuff
	by Niki Nibbe <madlink4-+AT+-earthlink.net>
  3) Demonsbane/Shadow Stalker
	by BCarlew <BCarlew-+AT+-aol.com>
  4) Rambling Braid
	by Sorchafyr <Sorchafyr-+AT+-aol.com>
  5) Heyla!
	by Joleth9652 <Joleth9652-+AT+-aol.com>
  6) Greetings
	by Heather Lettengarver <nightstar-+AT+-home.com>
  7) Re: Heyla!
	by troll-+AT+-netcomuk.co.uk
  8) Attractive Men...
	by "Mark W. Van Patten" <mwv-+AT+-utk.edu>
  9) Sun & Shadow/Lifebonds/Last Unicorn (fwd)
	by Danielle May Marrone <dmarrone-+AT+-ic.sunysb.edu>
 10) Passing of the ring and technology
	by Heather Arnold <typodrgn-+AT+-arches.uga.edu>
 11) Braid - lifebonding, splashes, animation, rutabegas, and
	by dprono-+AT+-planet.eon.net
 12) Braid:everything, I think
	by Ana Cotton <cousinshirley-+AT+-rocketmail.com>
 13) Re: Book opinion/Ring Story
	by Went2Oz <Went2Oz-+AT+-aol.com>
 14) Re:On-going Off-list Story (fluff)
	by "Fallenangel" <rlweidem-+AT+-alpha.delta.edu>
 15) HAPPY BIRTHDAY
	by Went2Oz <Went2Oz-+AT+-aol.com>
 16) Re: Braid, just general, lots of questions....
	by Went2Oz <Went2Oz-+AT+-aol.com>
 17) Valdemar men + Vanyel
	by Sheridan Hoy <tamlin-+AT+-sinesurf.co.nz>
 18) Re: technology
	by Greg Wooledge <wooledge-+AT+-kellnet.com>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 20:20:28 -0800
From: Niki Nibbe <madlink4-+AT+-earthlink.net>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Short braid/welcome
Message-ID: <34F63F0B.AF164643-+AT+-earthlink.net>

Welcome, Danny.  Wanted to be one of the first to welcome you to the list
and...*getting a running start, Niki leaps and POUNCEPOUNCEPOUNCE* <g>  I'm sure
you'll be receiving a personal greeting from someone on our official
welcome-wagon...hopefully it'll include a quick briefing on the Ring and the
Ring Story, since that topic might come up, and it's getting a bit repetitive to
clear this up on the list to each newbie arriving to grace these halls of Mist.

Great to see so many newbies and delurkers out there -- makes me feel like a
veteran, tho I've only been on the list a month!  And so many opinions and
well-thought-out arguments!  Think I'll just sit back for a while and read.
*Niki stamps her foot just a bit petulantly* "I can too!" (For all those
listsibs who suspect that Ii might be unable to restrain myself, well...hmm.
You're probably right! <g>)  Well, unless something gets raised that I
absolutely must a) disagree with, b) agree with, or c) shed light upon.  Oh, and
"d" would be in case I felt a need to post some fluff.

Okay, way OT -- There's been some posting about the Ship Who... series by Anne
McCaffrey (and others).  When we were listing what those were, one we didn't
mention was the short story about Helva in Get Off the Unicorn.  It's a little
epilogue, I suppose you could call it.  Actually, it's kinda neat to compare the
short stories in this book with the longer novels they eventually became.  Like
"Lady in the Tower" is a chapter or two in the later-written "Rowan."  Maybe
it's just me, because I fancy myself to be more editor than writer, but it's fun
to observe the subtle changes made to the newer versions, and to also get a
glimpse of the seed which later became a full-length novel, or even trilogy.
So, for all you McCaffrey fans who haven't read it -- I recommend it.  It's a
bunch of short stories, and you don't have to have read other books from a
series to understand them -- except for the Ship who Sang one; you have to have
read Ship who Sang to get "Honeymoon"

Well, I'll probably be getting back to you real soon -- I've got approximately
90 messages in my inbox.  Hafta go through and figure out why I've saved them;
mostly to be responded to or mulled over, I suspect.

Oh -- quick question.  Anybody know where  the expression "safe as houses"
means?  Makes no sense to me.  I'd been listening to a "flashback friday night"
on the radio, and they played the Depeche Mode song that goes "promises me I'm
safe as houses/long as I remember who's wearing the trousers" and for the first
time ever I wondered "what the heck does that mean?"  Now, I tend to take weird
mental detours, so I just sort of put it aside for a rainy day.  Then today I
was rereading Freedom's Landing by McCaffrey, and one of her characters says
something about not worrying, because they're "safe as houses."  So now I have
to know -- is this a common expression in some part of the US or Britain?
*sigh*  don't like feeling ignorant.  must....know.....everything.

Anyway, I'll sign off now. Zhai'helleva

Lady Niki, First Bearer of the Friendship Ring
"Ever stop to think...then forget to start again?"


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 20:25:50 -0800
From: Niki Nibbe <madlink4-+AT+-earthlink.net>
To: Mercedes Lackey Discussion <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: fluff and OT stuff
Message-ID: <34F6404C.983DB73E-+AT+-earthlink.net>

[I'm pretty sure this didn't send, so I'm doing it again.  If it did get
through, then I apologize -- delete one or the other]

Welcome, Danny.  Wanted to be one of the first to welcome you to the
list
and...*getting a running start, Niki leaps and POUNCEPOUNCEPOUNCE* <g>
I'm sure you'll be receiving a personal greeting from someone on our
official
welcome-wagon...hopefully it'll include a quick briefing on the Ring and

the Ring Story, since that topic might come up, and it's getting a bit
repetitive to clear this up on the list to each newbie arriving to grace
these halls of
Mist.

Great to see so many newbies and delurkers out there -- makes me feel
like
a veteran, tho I've only been on the list a month!  And so many opinions
and
well-thought-out arguments!  Think I'll just sit back for a while and
read. *Niki stamps her foot just a bit petulantly* "I can too!" (For all
those
listsibs who suspect that Ii might be unable to restrain myself,
well...hmm. You're probably right! <g>)  Well, unless something gets
raised that I
absolutely must a) disagree with, b) agree with, or c) shed light upon.
Oh, and "d" would be in case I felt a need to post some fluff.

Okay, way OT -- There's been some posting about the Ship Who... series
by
Anne McCaffrey (and others).  When we were listing what those were, one
we
didn't mention was the short story about Helva in Get Off the Unicorn.
It's a
little epilogue, I suppose you could call it.  Actually, it's kinda neat
to
compare the short stories in this book with the longer novels they
eventually became.
Like "Lady in the Tower" is a chapter or two in the later-written
"Rowan."
Maybe it's just me, because I fancy myself to be more editor than
writer, but
it's fun to observe the subtle changes made to the newer versions, and
to also get
a glimpse of the seed which later became a full-length novel, or even
trilogy. So, for all you McCaffrey fans who haven't read it -- I
recommend it.
It's a bunch of short stories, and you don't have to have read other
books from a
series to understand them -- except for the Ship who Sang one; you have
to
have read Ship who Sang to get "Honeymoon"

Well, I'll probably be getting back to you real soon -- I've got
approximately 90 messages in my inbox.  Hafta go through and figure out
why I've saved
them; mostly to be responded to or mulled over, I suspect.

Oh -- quick question.  Anybody know where  the expression "safe as
houses"
means?  Makes no sense to me.  I'd been listening to a "flashback friday

night" on the radio, and they played the Depeche Mode song that goes
"promises me
I'm safe as houses/long as I remember who's wearing the trousers" and
for the
first time ever I wondered "what the heck does that mean?"  Now, I tend
to take
weird mental detours, so I just sort of put it aside for a rainy day.
Then
today I was rereading Freedom's Landing by McCaffrey, and one of her
characters
says something about not worrying, because they're "safe as houses."  So
now I
have to know -- is this a common expression in some part of the US or
Britain?
*sigh*  don't like feeling ignorant.  must....know.....everything.

Anyway, I'll sign off now. Zhai'helleva

Lady Niki, First Bearer of the Friendship Ring
"Ever stop to think...then forget to start again?"




------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 23:37:48 EST
From: BCarlew <BCarlew-+AT+-aol.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Demonsbane/Shadow Stalker
Message-ID: <7eeb5fbe.34f6431e-+AT+-aol.com>

Someone has been bringing up the subject of Demonsbane and Shadow Stalker
ect...  (Sorry I deleted my mial before I decided to reply.

Here goes....
If I am to remember correctly Demonsbane and Shadow Stalker are the same
person......Vanyel
Wait let me search for my book....

MPrice  pg342
    Herald Vanyel came upon them........He would stalk and slay these Shadows,
and destroy them, one by one.
   Herald Vanyel, Shadow Stalker....

MPrice  pg348
    Now Vanyel tells the farmers.  "Go tell you near and far, how thus
are served the tyrants who would take Valdemar.  I am the bane of demons, who
flees them I defend.
Thus Heralds serve a foeman-thus Heralds save a friend!"

Sorry for the long textevd.  It's my first time using it, and I wanted to get
enough in.
Well if I am wrong I appologize but this was what I thought was the case.

Barbara and Asari(Fluffy wet lamb)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 02:46:23 EST
From: Sorchafyr <Sorchafyr-+AT+-aol.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Rambling Braid
Message-ID: <a7691d9.34f66f51-+AT+-aol.com>

Dear Listsibs:

Just cleaning up a few replies before I'm off to Scotland this weekend, gotta
keep that mailbox empty if I'm gonna miss 2 days of list messages!
*****************************************************
Ranibow writes:

<How come when Van is centered on finding Leareth he changes and even
snaps at Stefen, he isn't told-off by 'Fandes?>

Probably because Leareth was a threat to all Valdemar and not just a personal
one, so a little obsession is more helpful than not in this case.


She also writes:

<OK, maybe there are SEVERAL people you could lifebond too but I think
that lifebonding is related to emotions...> <snip the rest>

Just wanted to add my support for this well thought out (and even textevded
<how's that for a verb?>) slant on lifebonds.  Certain types of people bond
not certain predestined individuals.

********************************************************************
Lady Niki signs off with:

Lady Niki, First Bearer of the Friendship Ring
"Ever stop to think...then forget to start again?"

Grin and laugh, oh yes.  Where did you get this quote?  Is it yours?  I am
collecting interesting quotes (not organized like ShadowWolf though, just a
personal notebook) and I want to be able to accurately attribute them.
Actually I have found several interesting books to read just from liking the
quotes you have all posted from them.
***********************************************************************
And Barbara writes:

<Could someone help me name my very wet but lovable sheep?  She found me in
the Hall of Mist and I couldn't resist bringing her home with me.>

Don't know about you but I named mine Fluff.  Kas named hers Shor (well, it
kinda named itself).  Maybe we should have a sheep gathering?

*********************************************************************
Don't have anything original to add today.  May you all have a quiet weekend,
or not, depending on your wishes.

Sorchafyr
Knight of Fluff by Decree of LadyoftheSummerSunShine
**********************************************************************
"Pooh?" said Piglet.
"Yes?"  replied Pooh.
"Nothing," said Piglet, reaching up to take his hand, "I just wanted to be
sure of you."
  -A.A. Milne

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 03:04:25 EST
From: Joleth9652 <Joleth9652-+AT+-aol.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Heyla!
Message-ID: <e698cdea.34f6738b-+AT+-aol.com>

*    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *
*    *    *    *    *
A new figure enters the hall.  But not quietly.
A soft scream, gradually growing louder, is heard from the mists obscuring the
ceiling.
A small colorful figure, long hair trailing, soon speedily descends into
sight.  Several of the more magery-apt room members presumably prepare
levitation spells or the like, but the newcome elflike figure grabs onto a
tapestry and slides safely to the floor.
*    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *    *
*    *    *    *    *
   Hi!  Except for lurking for the past week or so, I'm a complete newbie to
the list.  So consider me cheerfully open to any drenchings, *pounce*ings, or
anything else that happens to be interesting.  If something bothers me, I'll
probably gripe about it.
   Oh, and sorry about the wall hanging there.  Hope I didn't damage it.  I've
said it before, but I do NOT like travelling on the back of a dead dragon.
Don't ask.
   Sounds like I could make lots of friends here.  I've read R Asprins Myth
series, but it got more and more depressing and cynical as it went on, and I
don't think he's written anything on it in the past two years.  I really liked
the first four, though.
   I'm sure it would be possible to anime some of Misty's (seems weird to
refer to an author by a nickname, I usually just say "Anthony"  or "Asimov" or
whatever.  But Mercedes _is_ a bit long.) work, but I'd much rather see it in
live acting.  Is everone talking about the last unicorn with the red bull
etc.?  That was my favorite movie until the time I turned 8 or so.  Then I
Star Wars, and was lost.  And a few years back, I saw Braveheart (not on the
big screen, :(
and that'll probably stay in the top spot for a while.
   Anyway, most of this stuff was just in the way of introduction, because I
haven't had time to wade through all of the hundreds of mails I've gotten.
I'll get back to those probably around monday.  I hope I haven't irked too
many people with my OT babbling, but when I write, I babble.  What joy!  It's
great to be here, and nice meeting you all.
-_/o!eth

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 01:08:28 -0800
From: Heather Lettengarver <nightstar-+AT+-home.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Greetings
Message-ID: <34F6828C.BD0D0756-+AT+-home.com>

Well I guess it would be a good time for me to unlurk here. ::winks:: I
just joined the list a few days ago and have so far enjoyed the
murmers. 	I loved the Last Unicorn as well, I also remember a Disney
movie that was rather un-disneylike - I think it was called The Black
Cauldron? Did anyone else see this one? If they did an anime movie of
one of Misty's tales maybe they sould start with Oathbound/Oathbreakers?
Wouldn't it be a little easier to portray (besides being really
interesting!)? 

Naya DuVar
Swordswoman and Bard
"You live and learn, or you don't live long"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 09:10:00 GMT
From: troll-+AT+-netcomuk.co.uk
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Heyla!
Message-ID: <19982279124641-+AT+-netcomuk.co.uk>

Welcome to the list! Have a *pounce* from me and a warm lick from
Sable. Hmm, I think this is the first time I've managed to be the
first to pounce a newbie ;)

Muranog Shadowbane
Troll Adept
and his bondmate Sable, the giant black war sheep



------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 11:09:05 -0500
From: "Mark W. Van Patten" <mwv-+AT+-utk.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Attractive Men...
Message-ID: <34F6E521.71EB-+AT+-utk.edu>

Fallenangel wrote:
> 
> Yvonne Shadowshape wrote:
> <snip>Vanyel Syndrome - when all the truly attractive guys just happen to be
> gay.
> At least that's my take on things! (YKYHBRTMMLW...) ;)</snip>
> 
> Does anyone know why this is? The only exceptions I can think of are Kris
> *Arrows Flight) and Darkwind (Winds of Fate). I've heard a few *very
> unflattering* versions of why Misty writes like this, although I personally
> believe that she just wants to give people a more positive view of that
> lifestyle. Any ideas?
> 

Well...	There is certainly no concrete, physical science explanation for
this phenomenon, but, you do bring up something I had hoped would come
out in discussion when I joined this group this week.

I, for one, was very happy to have my lifestyle so positively affirmed
in Magic's Pawn, Promise, and the searched-for-ten-months Price when I
read them this past year.  So, there is that aspect of Mercede's writing
that I admire (she does the same in many of her elf-oriented stories).  

What is even more gratifying to me is the probably unintended
"acknowledgement" of an esoteric concept: the link between sexuality and
spirituality.  Anthropolgists are aware of many native cultures prior to
industrialization where the spiritual leaders were shaman who existed on
the outer edges of gender identity.  They existed and embodied a balance
between the masculine and the feminine worlds, the yin/yang, the tao,
etc. These people were respected and honored as imnportant in these
earth-grounded, holistic cultures.  

There is another concept, perhaps best described by Matthew Fox, of the
role of the anawin, the little people. Anawin are those who have
suffered or been outcast by the dominating factions of society,
homosexuals, women, the abused, the other-talented, etc. These people
play an important role in pushing societies to change.  They hang out in
the fringe areas of the creative world, creating and designing new
things and processes which challenge the status quo - making things
"Right" in the world - much like the talented heralds.  What's nice
about Mercede's world of Valdemar is that these people are valued and
given that respected role of change agent.

I know that this is a rather long response to your simple question and
inquiry, but it is the root of my enjoyment of all of the Valdemar and
many of Mercede's other stories (also Marion Zimmer Bradley's as well -
whom she has co-authored with).  I've devoured ALL of the Valdemar books
in the past year and many of the elf-bane ones and am now working on
Bradley's Darkover series.  (My first intro to HER was in middle school
some 15? years ago when I read Catch Trap - it's been nice to reconnect
with her work through Mercede's)

As to why so many of those men you find attractive are gay, perhaps it
not just their physical beauty you desire, but their connectedness with
something "other" that comes through...  (I'm not so sure that Darkwind
was strictly "straight" either... Some choice comments were made here
and there in the works he played a role in.)

And lastly, (so sorry long...)  There are MANY men and women not
defining themselves as gay who have this balance of gender in their
lives.  Typcally, it's come out of having to face an area of themselves
or their experiences (same thing) that have forced them to approach the
world in a different manner, i.e., more compassionately, especially with
themselves, more assertively, more creatively, strongly, weakly, etc.,
etc., etc...  The ability to integrate the masculine and feminine in
ourselves, is, I believe, the key to our world's survival in the next
evolution of humankind...  Isn't that the message of the last Valdemar
story (chronologically) in the saving of the world by integrating all of
the peoples and their talents?

Well, I've rambled and rumbled and lost your attention - flung to your
mental categories of preachy, deranged, and/or proselytizing, but I've
been bursting with much of this and wanted to express it with others who
enjoy Mercede's work as much as I - hopefully, for some, for many of the
same reasons...

...Mark

:that was a little strong, but those who need to hear it will, and the
rest will take what they need or want and discard the rest.

That's what I'm hoping.

:Be careful what...

I know! I know!

:-)


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 11:57:30 -0500 (EST)
From: Danielle May Marrone <dmarrone-+AT+-ic.sunysb.edu>
To: Mercedes Lackey Fan List <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: Sun & Shadow/Lifebonds/Last Unicorn (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.980227115719.18020B-100000-+AT+-sparky>



On Thu, 26 Feb 1998, Rainbow wrote:

<<<<SNIP>>>>
> April wrote....
> <<as for the sun and shadow thingie, well Misty has said numerous times
> that no, she is never going to write that story, and I believe that
> unchaining windrider is symbolic of them breaking their curses, or how
> they broke them>>
> 
> I don't think that they DID break their curses? Because they could
> either break Windrider's chains OR break their curses...it says
> 'Why should they sacrifice all for these <i> strangers </i>'
> so 'all' means that they DON'T get free....
<<<<SNIP>>>>

The song was about before they became Heralds, so the curse was broken at
some point.


Rainbow again:

<<<<<SNIP>>>>>
I am now quite certain that LIFEBONDS ARE NOT PREDESTINED!!!!
Sorry for shouting, but here's my evidence -

Savil asks if Stefen HAS lifebondED TO Van, not asks if he has a
lifebond with Van...
<<<<<SNIP>>>>>

Lifebonding is not predestined.  It happens on sight the very first time
one sees another.  It is talked about somewhere in Arrow's Flight or Fall
between Talia, Keren and Sherril.  I also understood form somewhere that
it is possible that there are more than one possibilities out there for
lifebonding and that everyone has a potential lifebond-mate out there.  It
is just a matter of being at the right place at the right time.


Fallenangel wrote:

<<<<SNIP>>>>
<snip>What about how the Last Unicorn was done? That was an american
script
(which, THANKFULLY, was written by Peter S. Beagle himself) that was send
over to Japan to be animated. It's my fav. movie, and it makes me cry
every
time! *sniff...*</snip>

I just wanted to say thank you, I thought I was the only one! *wiping away
a
tear* Do you know of any other fantasy books by Peter Beagle? I can't find
any others.....
<<<<SNIP>>>>

The Last Unicorn has been my favorite movie since I was very small.  It
was what got me into fantasy and unicorns in the first place.  There are
other books by him.  I'll e-mail you when I remember what they were (I am
having a gigantic brain-fart right now).

				Wind to thy Wings.
					ARI






------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 13:25:31 -0500 (EST)
From: Heather Arnold <typodrgn-+AT+-arches.uga.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Passing of the ring and technology
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.3.96.980227123041.22094A-100000-+AT+-archa9.cc.uga.edu>


	Well, another week has come and gone with a wealth of discussion
and differing opinions.  While it's a bit of a pain to be such a lurker (I
blame biochemistry! ;)  at the same time, it's always a relaxing
between-classes fun-snack to read what others have written.  Hope I'll
have a little more time to write & respond soon.

Upholding a not-so old Tradition (and please, nobody get mad if I do this
wrong...I'm the first to have to try it in altered format. ;)

	Typo looks up from her laptop and sees the mixture of old faces
and new.  Lots of new.  The end of the week has come, and with it, the
passing of the Friendship Ring ceremony.  Quietly (and with as little
fluff as possible ;) she removes the ring from the chain around her neck
and presents it to Fallenangel. <<The ring is passed to you, my friend!>>
the blue-green dragon's voice purrs warmly, then she straightens up (as
much as she can without hitting her head on the ceiling) to
quote...er...paraphrase...the words of the Mage of Green Silence...

<<This ring is a symbol of friendship among the listsibs.  Thank you for
 all you do to bring interesting, fun, and thoughtful conversation to the
group.  What you give enriches us all.
	At the end of the week, please pass on the ring to another.  This
is how we extend the circle of friendship.>>

As she passes the ring on, in her hand appears the triple-fold reward of
the Ring...and wouldn't you know it, the three bands of silver,
platinum, and gold are the perfect size to slip over one huge talon.  She
pushes the ring/bracelet up onto her wrist, smiles, and gets back to work.

OB Misty:  Does anyone have an opinion on whether advancements in
technology will be slowed by the presence of magic in Velgarth?  My
thoughts on this are that since people have a tendency to not get
innovative until they need something done, and in many areas magic or
mind-magic take care of some minor problems (at least for the priveleged
few), the effort spent on technology would be less, so progress in that
area would be slower.  Misty herself addressed most obviously this with
the introduction of the Artificers, but I seem to remember a few other
points where she mentioned in passing some advance in science. (I thought
there was some reference to something that sounded a lot like a smallpox
vaccination in one of the books.  Any Disciple of Textevd want to help me
out?  -- I have a reproductive physiology exam next week, or I'd look it
up. ;)  It seems to me that advances in communication would be especially
slow, especially now that magic is "working" again.
	Something along those lines...I've been trying to figure out the
approximate development level of Valdemarians?  I was going to guess
after medieval but pre-industrial revolution, but I don't know enough
history (Earth _or_ Velgarth!) to have a very strong opinion.  Some
inventions they already seem to have include printing press,
sort-of-indoor plumbing, steam engines...help! help!


Through sunsets golden,
	--Typo
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Burn brightly while you burn, my friend,
Live fully while you live,
For Life is Brief,
And all we have to leave
Is what we give.
			--HA



------------------------------

Date: 	Fri, 27 Feb 1998 12:47:04
From: dprono-+AT+-planet.eon.net
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Braid - lifebonding, splashes, animation, rutabegas, and
Message-ID: <3.0.3.16.19980227124704.27574c90-+AT+-planet.eon.net>

Heyla all yea Misty Folk!
	Once again Yvonne is on the List, and opening her rather large mouth so
that words can fly out and food can fly in! (Yes, I AM hungry!)

>Hello, I'm a newbie, and this is my first post.
>Danny Nidess
	
	SPLOSH! *Soaks Danny with a bucket of sea-water* Yes, I have been very
buisy for the last little bit, so if I have neglected to drench anyone -
'tis not mine fault! Concider yourself greeted anyways, although it may be
a little less ... er.... WET.

>
>Well I guess it would be a good time for me to unlurk here.

	SPLOSH! *Splashes Naya with her famous bucket* He he! Got you too! And
welcome! :)

>I loved the Last Unicorn as well, I also remember a Disney
>movie that was rather un-disneylike - I think it was called The Black
>Cauldron? Did anyone else see this one? 

	I haven't seen it, but I'll keep an eye out for it. I have ambitions  of
becoming an animator, but NOT the fluffy-ooey-gooey-sickeningly sweet
disney kind. I want to make more adultish movies. Ever seen Simpsons? Or
Duckman? More like those. And WITHOUT the pornographic bits that seem to be
prevalent in those types of movies. I like animation because you can do so
much with it! :)

>Hi!  Except for lurking for the past week or so, I'm a complete newbie to
>the list.  

	Ha ha! A suicidal one!! ;) SPLOSH! Concider yourself formally greeted by
Yvonne Shadowshape, Lady of the Water-Borne! :)

>   Oh, and sorry about the wall hanging there.  Hope I didn't damage it.
>I've said it before, but I do NOT like travelling on the back of a dead
>dragon. Don't ask.

	Now THAT sounds like a good story! My morbid sense of humor is coming into
play! (He he he! MORE chances to feed my darker, wackier, maniac side!*)
Write it up and send it to me privatly at dprono-+AT+-planet.eon.net and I'll
trade you for my strange tale of the evil rutabega. (I'm not kidding)

* see above reference to ambitions to becoming an animator.

>I, for one, was very happy to have my lifestyle so positively affirmed
>in Magic's Pawn, Promise, and the searched-for-ten-months Price when I
>read them this past year.  So, there is that aspect of Mercede's writing
>that I admire (she does the same in many of her elf-oriented stories).
  
	Ok, what I DIDN'T mean by my 'Vanyel Syndrome' comment is that I am in any
way homophobic. I really admire the people out there who have the courage
to stand up and say "I have different sexual preferences!" While that is
NOT the point of your arguement, I thought that I should point that out. 
	But then again, I admire ANYONE who has the courage to state their views
and preferences, especially if they go againsed the grain. While I may not
agree with everyone's statements (punk rockers, for example. And I would
like to point out here that I have a punk friend) I will always stand aside
and let them say their bit, and applaud them for their courage. I still may
not agree with what they say, but let them say it! This is a free world,
and it takes all types out there to make it interesting.
	*Yvonne looks around and sheepishly gets off her soap box*

><OK, maybe there are SEVERAL people you could lifebond too but I think
>that lifebonding is related to emotions...> 

>Just wanted to add my support for this well thought out (and even
>textevded <how's that for a verb?>) slant on lifebonds.  Certain types of
>people bond not certain predestined individuals.

	I believe that it said in Arrows... NO! Winds! Stefan is taking to Nyara
and Skif, and lifebonds is brought up. He says, and I even QUOTE: *Wow...
Yvonne QUOTING! A rare sight indeed!*

	:I don't know about a disease, but it isn't love, that's for certain, even
though love usually cements the bond. Van thinks that it's liklier that
someone with an extreamly powerful gift of some kind and a tendancy to deep
depression will be lifebonded than someone who is not so burdened and
hag-ridden. That's so the Gifted-and-suicidal half has someone outside of
himself to keep him stable and give him an external focus. But- all we know
is that while it's rare, it isn't something to yearn after.:

	So it isn't an emotional attatchment - rather probibly a defense mechanism
for the powerfully Gifted that prevents them from becomming suicidal or
killing a bunch of people. Stef also implies that you can have a
lifebonding WITHOUT any love at all! I almost regret saying that - it takes
the romance out of it. *sigh*

	Ah well, I must go now before I make this braid into something scary and
unmanagably long from the depths of musty Misty texts. (I liked that one!)
So chocolate valilla swirlly icecream flavored sheep with rainbow sprinkles
(dont forget the sprinkles!) for you all, and special chocolate covered
spoons for all 'The Last Unicorn' lovers out there! Long live the
butterfly! ;)



	Yvonne Shadowshape, bonded to Chiti, Chosen by Korla
	Goddess of Kelpies, Selkies, and the other Water-Borne
	Knight of Fluff

*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&* 

"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.
	"Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad.
You're mad."
	"How do you know that I'm mad?" said Alice.
	"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."

			-Lewis Carroll 'Alice in Wonderland'



------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 12:15:27 -0800 (PST)
From: Ana Cotton <cousinshirley-+AT+-rocketmail.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Braid:everything, I think
Message-ID: <19980227201527.20515.rocketmail-+AT+-attach1.rocketmail.com>

Lady Niki said:
>I recommend it. [Get Off the Unicorn]>>
So do I! It has some very good stories in it. (unlike the Girl Who
Heard Dragons book.)

>Oh -- quick question.  Anybody know where  the expression "safe as
>houses" means?>>
Something to do with foundations maybe? And what coincidence, you
listening to DM, while I've got the PSB in my ears... I am
definitely nuts now.
--
Barbara writes:
<Could someone help me name my very wet but lovable sheep? 
She found me in the Hall of Mist and I couldn't resist bringing her
home with me.>
Umm, well, what kind of name do you give a sheep? Wait, I've got it!
Name her Nimue!
---
Joleth wrote:
>Hi! ...Oh, and sorry about the wall hanging there. >
Nah, don't worry about it, that tapestries been yanked on lots!
Welcome! And have a drink, food, or whatever else please. Just ask
any of the various waiters, pages, and other assorted help for
whatever you want. Oh, and *pounce*!
--
Naya Duvar writes:
>Well I guess it would be a good time for me to unlurk
here.::winks:: >I just joined the list a few days ago and have so
far enjoyed
>the murmers. >>
Why thank you, we like our murmers to! *pounce* Have a drink! Food! 
--
Fallenangel wrote:
> 
> Yvonne Shadowshape wrote:
> <snip>Vanyel Syndrome - when all the truly attractive
guys just happen to be
> gay.
> At least that's my take on things! (YKYHBRTMMLW...)
;)</snip>
> Does anyone know why this is? The only exceptions I can
think of are Kris
> *Arrows Flight) and Darkwind (Winds of Fate). >
Actually, I can think of a few: Deke Kestral, Tannim, Eric, Kory,
the elf who was Kory's cousin, Keighvin, Daren, Eldan, Justin (Tarma
and Keth's friend), Tantris, all of the Hawkbrothers, most of the
Shin'a'in, the Kaled'a'in, ................... 
-
Also, Mark, loved the post you sent in response to this! 
--
Someone mentioned the number of Adepts that Van went after. And the
fact that their were, apparantly four- Gretske swarm caller,
Demonsbane, Shadow-Stalker, and the Fire starter.
Well, if you think about it, Grettske's are a type of demon, so how
different was the Demonsbane to that? Never mind, I'm not making any
sense.. Ana who is listening to the Pet Shop Boys 'Please' album-no
wonder I'm going slowly mad...
 ===
Hugs, Ana, proud Knight of Fluff. Watch "Three"! 
"So, I stole Niles' ovaries!"-Frazier to his father. 
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/6573
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free -+AT+-yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 18:52:03 EST
From: Went2Oz <Went2Oz-+AT+-aol.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Book opinion/Ring Story
Message-ID: <20fc7ba5.34f751e8-+AT+-aol.com>

I just finished the Arrows and found that the third one was the hardest to put
down. My friends and I have been passing the books (All Valdemar) around.
Arrows helps yuo fill in the gaps on many things. I read Magic Tril. first and
found that after reading them I was in love, so I bought many more. I love it
and highly recommend the Arrows Tril.

-+AT+-~~~~^~~~

Quinlyn

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 19:01:59 -0000
From: "Fallenangel" <rlweidem-+AT+-alpha.delta.edu>
To: <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: Re:On-going Off-list Story (fluff)
Message-ID: <008901bd43b2$2f8f44c0$418185a1-+AT+-skkohnkedelta.edu>

Hi all,

Sorry that this has nothing to do with Misty, but this is the only way that
I can be assured of reaching y'all for the time being.

If you haven't received any response from either me or Carson about the
story lately, please contact one of us. I recently discovered a flaw in my
mailing system and wanted to make sure that all of you have been getting the
updates that we send out, about one every other day or so. If you've asked
to join and haven't gotten a response, I'm sorry.

The list of Collaborators is:
Adrienne <ametz-+AT+-U.Arizona.EDU>,
Ailsa and Zika <Ailsa.nhaWinifreyda-+AT+-flinders.edu.au>,
Aldric <Moiami1-+AT+-aol.com>,
Amber <stasia-+AT+-gte.net>,
Andi WindDancer <spiralivy-+AT+-aol.com>,
Barbara <carlba25-+AT+-ulster.mail.suny.edu>,
Carson <cgb5-+AT+-cornell.edu>
Chris <cwiegand-+AT+-urgentmail.com>,
Claire <seashimer-+AT+-aol.com>,
Dax <tntgray-+AT+-sprintmail.com>,
Dre <arjessup-+AT+-students.wisc.edu>,
FallenAngel <rlweidem-+AT+-alpha.delta.edu>
Femmy <femmy-+AT+-melsa.net.id>,
Karen Chan <kkchan-+AT+-ozemail.com.au>,
Lady Sophia <lynne-+AT+-seaccd.sccd.ctc.edu>,
Lani Hunter <slaterb-+AT+-smtpgw2.musc.edu>,
Megan Glitterglass <SEANSQ-+AT+-aol.com>,
Mooncrystal <tracienesta-+AT+-hotmail.com>,
MorningStar <morningstar-+AT+-poetic.com>,
Niki Nibbe <madlink4-+AT+-earthlink.net>,
Rainbow <cf-+AT+-leightons.demon.co.uk>,
Raven Darkblade <abbykat-+AT+-hotmail.com>,
Samantha <SamanthaMS-+AT+-aol.com>,
Shadowblade<heraldtg-+AT+-mbox3.singnet.com.sg>,
ShadowDancer <smartin-+AT+-ultiweb.com>,
ShadowStalker <ShdowStker-+AT+-aol.com>,
Shantaya Autumnleaf <GrobuHit-+AT+-t-online.de>,
Sheridan <tamlin-+AT+-sinesurf.co.nz>,
Skywolf <skywolf-+AT+-washington.sbceo.k12.ca.us>,
Sorchafyr <Sorchafyr-+AT+-aol.com>,
Typo <typodrgn-+AT+-arches.uga.edu>

If you don't see your name on the list or if your e-mail address is wrong,
please contact me or Carson.

Thank you,
FallenAngel

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kathryn Shannon
Lady of OOPS
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/9421
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 18:59:06 EST
From: Went2Oz <Went2Oz-+AT+-aol.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: HAPPY BIRTHDAY
Message-ID: <9c75b828.34f7534d-+AT+-aol.com>

Barbara---

Happy Birthday.

I know I know, I'm reading my mail late and the moment has passed but I had to
say it anyway.

-+AT+-~~~~~^~~~~

Quinlyn

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 19:06:18 EST
From: Went2Oz <Went2Oz-+AT+-aol.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Braid, just general, lots of questions....
Message-ID: <282032b.34f754fc-+AT+-aol.com>

In a message dated 98-02-24 20:42:38 EST, you write:

<< Also in Sun & Shadow (I LOVE Windrider Unchained, well the lyrics anyway
 - and THAT'S about Sunsinger and Shadowdancer - it IS! It HAS to be!
 Singer, Dancer, singer in shadows ect....) Why do Sunsinger and
 Shadowdancer have Tayledras type names? Just wondering!   >>



ITS POETRY. 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 13:31:31 +1300
From: Sheridan Hoy <tamlin-+AT+-sinesurf.co.nz>
To: "'mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk'" <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: Valdemar men + Vanyel
Message-ID: <01BD444F.0DD7E600-+AT+-port31.ts1.auck.sinesurf.co.nz>

Hi guys,

Mark Van Patten wrote:

<< There is another concept, perhaps best described by Matthew Fox, of the role of the anawin, the little people. Anawin are those who have suffered or been outcast by the dominating factions of society, homosexuals, women, the abused, the other-talented, etc. These people play an important role in pushing societies to change.  They hang out in the fringe areas of the creative world, creating and designing new things and processes which challenge the status quo - making things "Right" in the world - much like the talented heralds.  What's nice about Mercede's world of Valdemar is that these people are valued and given that respected role of change agent.>>

I agree with most of that except for the bit about being valued in Valdemar. Vanyel always thought that everyone was wary of him because he was shaych, but most of the Heralds were actually scared of all the power that he possessed. However, no matter how loyal and honest he was, his parents, and most of his hold did look sideways at him because of his sexual preferences, and the fact that he was a Herald seemed to have no bearing on their attitude. It took Moondance's story, and the fact that Vanyel gave his oath as a Herald for his father to accept who he really was, even though he wasn't truly happy about it.
     Thus I don't really think that that Vanyel was accepted by his family at all, well not until right near the end of his life anyway, and he was lucky. He was chosen, and if he hadn't been then maybe what Savyil said would happen; he would be sent to a monastery that didn't like those that were shaych. That is what is so terrible about society today; people shun and hound those people that are not exactly the same as they are, instead of celebrating their differences. That is why I like the Last Herald Mage trilogy; because it went away from what society the norm, and shows that it should not be judged. 

I agree that Vanyel is a beautiful person Yvonne Shadowshape, but mainly for who he is on the inside rather than his physical appearance, although I kind of like that too :).

Any opinions whether agreeing or disagreeing I would be glad to hear, because after all that is what mkes this list....good discussion.

Bright the Day,

tamlin :)


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 20:00:27 -0500
From: Greg Wooledge <wooledge-+AT+-kellnet.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: technology
Message-ID: <19980227200027.27176-+AT+-phoenix.local>

Heather Arnold (typodrgn-+AT+-arches.uga.edu) wrote:

> OB Misty:  Does anyone have an opinion on whether advancements in
> technology will be slowed by the presence of magic in Velgarth?  My
> thoughts on this are that since people have a tendency to not get
> innovative until they need something done [...]

I agree; with both mind magic and "regular" magic available to them,
I'd expect their advancement in the physical sciences to be rather slower
than Europe's was.

There will of course be innovation and scientific advancement in what we
call science, but keep in mind that the physical laws governing Velgarth
appear to be different from the laws governing our universe.  Who's to
say that the mages of Velgarth aren't simply scientists studying natural
laws that we simply can't/don't understand?

> 	Something along those lines...I've been trying to figure out the
> approximate development level of Valdemarians?  I was going to guess
> after medieval but pre-industrial revolution, but I don't know enough
> history (Earth _or_ Velgarth!) to have a very strong opinion.

That sounds about right.  They uses horses and wagons for transportation,
and they fight with swords and bows and arrows.

I would guess that they are approaching something similar to an industrial
revolution -- perhaps two centuries in the future -- with a couple points
worth noting:

  * The Storms may set them back a bit; I haven't read Owlflight yet,
    and my grasp of the aftermath isn't complete.

  * Their "industrial revolution" will be different from ours in many
    ways, because their "industry" will be largely based on mind magic
    and "regular" magic, I suspect.

-- 
"Daddy, why do those people have to    |   Greg Wooledge
  use Microsoft Windows?"              |   wooledge-+AT+-kellnet.com
"Don't stare, son; it's not polite."   |   http://www.kellnet.com/wooledge/

------------------------------

End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1507
**********************************