MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1530 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Braid by Chris Manning 2) Braid - Mindspeech, etc. by "John E Morris" 3) Re: Braid again by "Mark Severson" 4) Fluff and questions by "Terrae N. Loucks" 5) by "Lisa Tunnicliff" 6) Fluff & opinion by fenris-+AT+-ptdprolog.net (Taynar Fenrir) 7) Fluff by "Terrae N. Loucks" 8) Re: Quenten/real or no?/reincarnation/Storms by Rainbow 9) Re: Quenten/real or no?/reincarnation/Storms by troll-+AT+-netcomuk.co.uk 10) Hall/Disney/Companions/Anna&Ana/Gryphons-mild to none OFlight spoiler/ by shadowspun-+AT+-juno.com (Heather A Tomlinson) 11) Friendship Ring passes on... by troll-+AT+-netcomuk.co.uk 12) Hardorn? & magic/Firesong by shadowspun-+AT+-juno.com (Heather A Tomlinson) 13) Re: Quenten/real or no?/reincarnation/Storms by Greg Wooledge 14) braidy type thing by Ana Cotton 15) Fluff and the obMisty by Anna 16) Re: Short one, sorry... by Anna 17) Re: Quenten/real or no?/reincarnation/Storms by Kago23618 18) Re: short stories by "Amanda Whaley" 19) Braid: stereotypes/McCaffrey/Rolan/Norton/Disney/etc. by Kenneth Allen Hyde ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 23:16:27 -0500 From: Chris Manning To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Braid Message-ID: <35133F1B.430C-+AT+-voyager.net> Hi again, just a weekly reply or so ;) andifairy-+AT+-mindless.com wrote: > Actually the Talia/Rolan thing always troubeled my mind, but I always had > the impression that the Holderkin saw the Companions as Demons or such, and > even though Talia was desperate to escape, would she go with an animal she > had been brought up to fear? But then again she idolized the Heralds and > wanted to be one... I'm just full of contridictions today... Well, my take was that because Talia was rebellious, she didn't hold all the superstitions and such that the rest of the people did, otherwise she wouldn't idolize the Heralds, instead she would've feared them. ----------------------------------------------------------- Ana Cotton wrote: > On a slightly different subject: what about a book makes you read > it? do you like it if it has normal day to day routines in it? Does > it have to have a lot of adventure, fights, etc.? > I'm curious, 'cause sometimes I'll love reading about normal > everyday occurances. Hmm... I tend to prefer a good balance of both, though my tastes tend to run more toward the non-normal way of life for reading. -- Chris Manning - wtknleo at voyager dot net - ICQ UIN 5409788 Lunar - Phantasy Star - Magic Knight RayEarth Davis on EsperNet and LunarNet ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 01:39:10 -0500 From: "John E Morris" To: "Mercedes Lackey List" Subject: Braid - Mindspeech, etc. Message-ID: <01bd5494$0e7ce100$53109cd1-+AT+-default> >There were other companions who did not have mind speach/very good >mindspeach with their chosen:Magic's Promise, HBedition pg.426.; > 'Lores looked up, his face twisted and tear-streaked. "I-didn't >know. I couldn't-I don't feel anything from Jenna, not really, I-my >gift-it's fetching. I don't mindspeak even with her, much-I-told her >what to do, but she didn't do it...' The key phrase is "even with her, much" He may not be very good at it, but he does do it some. I've always found this passage interesting, myself, since Lores does not seem to fit the mold of Heralds. He seems stupid and impetuous. >Vanyel found out that companions can mind speak whoever they choose, it doesn't have to >be their chosen, it's just like the secrets that they keep, maybe Rolan >had a reason for not speaking with Talia. Aha! You've hit on the crux of it. It is my contention that ML did not have it in her head that Companions could mindspeak whomever they chose when she wrote AOTQ, but was forced to stick with it after the other books were written. After all - what reason would Rolan, whom we are told radiates to Talia such all-encompassing feelings of love, have to withhold contact from his Chosen? >they couldn't say that Zeus slept around a lot, and Hercules >was always being hunted because Hera hated him because he was Zeus' >bastard son . . . I don't think many parents would have been happy . Very true, though Disney's animated features have taken on decidedly adult themes in recent years. I, too, was a great fan of Greek mythology growing up - I read Edith Hamilton and Robert Graves voraciously when I was younger. I haven't seen Hercules yet, but I was annoyed by what I saw in the previews. For one thing, Hades seemed to have WAY too much personality. The myths portray him as a very solemn fellow (not to mention a lonely one - he had to trick Persephone to stay with him half the year, after all). This pops up quite a bit in the TV series as well - I get so irritated when I see characters from classical mythology twisted and turned around. I remember one episode of Xena where Dionysus (they called him by the Roman name Bachhus which really bit my tail, too) was portrayed as a demonic vampire creature. That and the fact that all the guys and galls are wielding steel swords 1000 years out of place - they wouldn't have had anything beyond gladius-style bronze short swords then. >why is it that almost every civilization that one incounters in fantasy books has >lost the great magics (and/or Technology)? I have noticed this quite a bit myself, and I suspect the answer is pure dramatic strength. Were the greater magics/technologies available, the protagonists would not have nearly the difficulties in overcoming the obstacles confronting them. I think that in the case of Velgarth, it is not so much a question of losing the greater magics as it was being unable to use them again. Magic changed after Urtho and Ma'ar's little blowout. The surviving mages didn't waste time trying to recreate things that would no longer work, so they moved on to other things. In the case of The Wheel of Time and a few other books, the collapse of the society that made such advances possible is responsible for the loss. We know (tiny spoiler here) that little pockets of abilities and knowledge remain scattered throughout Jordan's world - it is just that the means to share the knowledge was lost (for now) As to the tech, the destruction of the means of production as well as the minds who understood it would have led to the collapse. Ciao, John E. Morris ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 23:13:14 -0600 From: "Mark Severson" To: Subject: Re: Braid again Message-ID: <001001bd5488$381f4220$986cb4cd-+AT+-markttz.eonet.com> John E Morris wrote > > No author is under any obligation to create a "politically correct" >character. They are, however, answerable to the readers of their novels who might happen to be of that race/creed/sexual orientation. It is easy to say that authors shouldn't be responsible for upholding current trends of social correctness. However, I suspect that were the issue a matter of race or creed, many people would be far more upset by dissenting opinions than were the matter relating to sexual orientation. Were an author to create black characters who were all stupid criminals who had great physical strength, or Jewish characters who were all consumed by greed, or Muslim characters whose sole purpose was the destruction of all those who did not adhere to the tenants of the Koran, there would be a far greater outcry. It is only when the question of gay characters arises that we choose to cry "political correctness" > WRONG John! The ONLY person any author is answerable to is themselves. If he/she wishes to write a bunch of bigoted tripe - it IS his/her option. It is YOUR option to buy or not buy the book(s) that are produced. An author who writes trash will very quickly lose thier readers and fade from the public eye. If you do not care for how someone is writing something then you have TWO options, yes two. The first is to "vote" with your dollars, i.e. don't buy the books! The second is write a book of your own!! Then YOU will be in control of who in the book and how they act. Should you write something that others enjoy you will have the added reward of being paid to express your opinions. > Before you start throwing rocks my way John concerning discrimination let me lay a couple facts on you. I am now and I have been for my entire life (43 years) FAT, not "plump" fat! I have been discrimated against because of my size my entire life. I have tried more diets then there are days in year. When I was a kid no one wanted me on thier teams, as a teenager I was shut out, the "odd ball" my main claim to fame was blowing myself up in the science lab. Nothing can blow a guys ego all to hell like having a girl LAUGH in your face when you ask if she would like a soda, not even a date just a soda! Then when find a girl that does like you for you religion rears its ugly head and totally destroys any chance of happiness the two of you had. I had to get a FAT waver to get in the Navy. I lost weight that time, and ended in the hospital for three weeks, my first night in the hospital they had a Death Watch on me, yes a Death Watch. I was so sick from trying to lose weight that they weren't sure I would live through the night. After that I started eating normally again and poof! It came back. After I got out of the Navy I found that no one wants to hire fat people, you know we're lazy, dirty, etc. I know all about stereo types me bucko. I can't get heath insurance like other folks, I was lucky to get it through the state. I pay extra for clothing and I get the "look" all the time. Everything is built for "normal" sized people as for us "large" folks, we don't count. But hey, guess what - I'm a happy person. You know why? Because as far as I am concerned if you don't like how I look that's YOUR problem not mine! I am not out there screaming or whining about "fat" rights. If I see something I don't like or read something I do not care for - I turn it off or close the book, I also remember it was that offended me so I know not to purchase thier material again. My apoligizes for my tirade but I am sick and tired of the whining I hear, be it racial, sexual, or what ever. Everytime someone tells me I OWE them something I immediately get ticked. Treat me with respect and I will treat you with respect, whine at me and I will turn you off in a heartbeat. Mark the tax zombie OBMisty I read OathBlood and found it quite enjoyable. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 01:33:29 -0600 (CST) From: "Terrae N. Loucks" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Fluff and questions Message-ID: A small ball of fluff enters the Hall. She begins to bounce up and down under the small gathering of pita and humus people. She starts whining and mewing. Then she mindsends: Please give me som too. I never get humus. Heartsong enjoys other food better. Then on que a tall red headed woman appears from a swirl of mist. She is no longer the little girl she was and now she is adorned in a long flowing royal blue dress with tight fitting sky blue boddess that hugged her chest. He hair flowed down at all sides. Then she pointed her finger at the small ball of fluff and a blue cloud surrounded her. Then a slender black panther steps out of the cloud. As everyone looks to the young lady in curiosity. She shruggs and mindsends: I had to grow up sometime and under everyone's love, I was able too and so was Apache Tear. Thank you. May I please have some pita and humus too. And just for the record my fur ball is never deprived and often too spoiled for her own good. Heartsong knocks herself upside the head for forgetting her manners. She removes the mist spell from Starfire and offers her apology. She was only being onery. Then she hands her a emerald brotch with a green silk cape that flows like Heartsongs dress. Next she appraoches Etain and admires her wings. She then hands Etain a jar that contain eternally blazing sparkles. She explains,"These are to decorate your wings and will illuminate rooms like stars when spread all over." When Heartsong has had her fill, she leaves the group to find two others. Apache Tearfollows close behind. She goes to Anna first and hugs her. Then she hands her an Apache Tear and Apache Tear licks her hand. They both send Anna a feeling of aceptance and welcome. Then they ask her to join in the fun and dance. Also Heartsong reaches into the Mist and brings out a small white owl. She mindsends: This is a familiar from my home. Her name is Anastasia. In my home every child recieves a familiar not long after they are able to talk. This one has no child because she was the last in her batch. She could really use a friend like you and she would stay with you always. She is very smart and can mindspeak. She also has magical powers like my Apache Tear. Would you like her?" The small owl flies from Heartsongs hands onto Anna's shoulder. There she caresses the girl's cheek and mindsends: You are truly caring and I would like to be you friend. Will you have me? Heartsong sneaks off to let them talk. She sends: If you do not want her, just bringher to me. I will be dancing. I think you two would do well together. Next Heartsong approaches Taynor. She sits down next to him and Apache Tear appears behind her to be a back rest. When she is finally comfortable. She turns to Taynor and says"Your friends are beautiful. How old are they? My name is Heartsong and this over grown beast is Apache Tear. She is my familiar. How long have you been here on the list. I am new and just learning names. So you will have to forgive me if I do not now you." She waits patiently for him to talk, while sendind a questing thought to find ShadowWolf. she believes he would enjoy the festivities and should come meet the newbies. ======================================================================================== I have been rereading many of my books and I have been wondering if anyone besides me has noticed that there is similarity between Misty's style of writing and Andre Norton? Does anyone else read Norton? She is well known in sci-fi fantasy and ifI am correct, Misty holds her in high esteem? Also I think it is sad that Firesong did not keep Andesha. I thought they were cute together. I wonder why Elspeth did not end up with the same amount of magic strength as Firesong. I mean both of them are decendents of Vanyel. Well gotta go. Heartsong and Apache Tear ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 20:07:56 EST From: "Lisa Tunnicliff" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Message-ID: <19980321100756.2505.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> :Uni, Claude and Lisa flow into the hall of mist, Glad for a reuge from the preesures of reality. They thatnk heartsong for her gift, and immeditaley they join the Three stooges. The wander aroung the hall, greting old friends, and saying hello to all the newbies, before joining to the dance floor, and joining in. After dancing for a short time, they start a refresment stand with Hummus, pita bread, cheese and tomato, as well as M&M sheep, ambrosia and other goodies, saying to all "Supper is served" The three friends, sigh a sigh of deep contentment. They are among friends, and feel safe and loved!: Hello to all again! Heartsong - Firesong is probaly stonger in Magic beacuse the HawkBrothers have a lot of mages, so a lot of his ancestors were mages. Valdermar and it's kings/Queens have lesss magery in their line, therefore leess for her to inherite! Ming bai? (understand? *s*) Sheep to all and sundry The Three Stooges Lisa, Claude and Uni. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 10:53:36 GMT From: fenris-+AT+-ptdprolog.net (Taynar Fenrir) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Fluff & opinion Message-ID: <199803211053.KAA17851-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk> >Next Heartsong approaches Taynar. She sits down next to him and Apache >Tear appears behind her to be a back rest. When she is finally >comfortable. She turns to Taynar and says"Your friends are beautiful. How >old are they? My name is Heartsong and this over grown beast is Apache >Tear. She is my familiar. How long have you been here on the list. I am >new and just learning names. So you will have to forgive me if I do not >now you." Taynar turns and smiles slightly to Heartsong, "My friends thank you for the compliment. The have been with me for two seasons and have yet to convey thier age to me. As for how long I have been here, I've been lost in the mist for a full cycle of the moon and am new to this place, and these people." Without a thought Samhain turns and politely snuggles against Heartsong hoping for a little attention from a new friend. =============================================================================== Just adding my 2 cents to the Disney thing, while it does bother me that they stray of the historical/mythological storylines with Pocahantos/Hercules I'm hoping that they will foster enough attention by the name that kids will go out and actually read the actual stories. I Taynar Fenrir I "If it wasn't for reality we wouldn't I fenris-+AT+-ptdprolog.net I be needing all this fantasy." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 05:46:13 -0600 (CST) From: "Terrae N. Loucks" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Fluff Message-ID: Heartsong laughs and ealgerly pets the new friend. Then Apache Tear reaches over and nuzzles each of them. Alow purr can be heard in her throat. She then pulls away from beneath Heartsong and rubs her wet nose against Taynar's cheek. All is well. Heartsong laughs at the thought of such wild animals all acting like house pets. It is good. She mindsends: Maybe I should have two companions. It might be worth the effort of coonjuring up a black tiger. They are hard and it would take a day to do, but it might be fun. What do you think? Apache Tear nips her arm and she laughs. Then Apache minsends: You better not think of doing that sweetie or you might find me in a bad mood or a dead familiar. The new one of course. Heartsong laughs again and says,"I think my friend has made it clear that there will be no new editions to the family anytime soon. Oh well, maybe next time. Well this is boring. Let's leave the three to wrestle and let's go dance. Oh and here are some towels for when Seashimmer and Yvonne get a hold of you. I would hate to see you drenched. With thatshe hands Taynar some towels and some chocolate sheep. She even goes as far as to conjer up a necklace made of wolf fangs and tiger' eyes. The latter is for strengthand spiritual alignment. Then she bows to him and reaches out her hand to take his and pull him. onto the dance floor. Then she calls for a good R and B song and dances. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 09:20:45 +0000 From: Rainbow To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Quenten/real or no?/reincarnation/Storms Message-ID: Hey, I was thinking - in Afall in the battle with the Karsites, how come they could think and knew about magic? I mean didn't Van + Stef put a prohibitation on magic thinking/speaking ect? Heartsong wrote - <> Did anyone else notice (yes this DOES have something to do with Heartsong's question) that once Firesong said he was related to Brightstar, another time he said he was related to Van on BOTH sides of his family? Which do you think is right? He COULD be related to Brightstar and Featherfire, or 2 of Brightstar's descendants? Rainbow Unity! 'If you want the rainbow, you gotta put up with the rain' ~~~???~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 16:48:36 GMT From: troll-+AT+-netcomuk.co.uk To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Quenten/real or no?/reincarnation/Storms Message-ID: <1998321165051721726-+AT+-netcomuk.co.uk> On 03/21/98 16:39:49 Rainbow wrote: > >Hey, I was thinking - in Afall in the battle with the Karsites, how come >they could think and knew about magic? I mean didn't Van + Stef put a >prohibitation on magic thinking/speaking ect? > Um, there weren't any Karsites in AFall. Methinks you mean Hardornens. And the Heralds and Guards could presumably think about magic because either A) the protections were weak and fluctuated on the Border, B) Vanyel and Stefen decided it'd be counterproductive to not let them believe in the ENEMY magic(depending on how much conscious control Van and Stef had of things...probably not so likely), C) seeing the enemy magic actually at work in battle overrode the protections, or D) Misty made one of her rare mistakes ;) or more than one of the above. (after all, it wouldn't be very helpful for the defenders to 'disbelieve' in the demons when the demons were attacking them...) Wind to thy wings, salt water to thy hair and chocolate sheep to thy larder, Muranog Shadowbane Troll Adept and Knight of Fluff and his bondmate Sable, the giant black war sheep ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 11:44:39 EST From: shadowspun-+AT+-juno.com (Heather A Tomlinson) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Hall/Disney/Companions/Anna&Ana/Gryphons-mild to none OFlight spoiler/ Message-ID: <19980321.114311.6375.1.shadowspun-+AT+-juno.com> ~Welcome, Taynor. As Heartsong already said, watch for falling water. ;) Hmm, I think I'l pop out for a second. I have a desire for my version of potato salad, and being only a lowly Historian, with no magic, I have to walk. Be right back. Besides, Hobgood wants some gourmet guppies.~ Disney-the only problem I have with the movies fostering interest in the children is when they do find out the truth, they could be either disappointed or disbelieving. I was completely destroyed when I found out the truths behind some historical happenings. Columbus, Pocahontas, the Crusades. When I found out some of the truth behind Columbus it wasn't so bad. This was just a few months ago. I had already realized that textbooks tend to be at least mildly propagandized, but I'm 21, almost 22. It took a long while for me to realize this. These are children who don't yet, for the most part. Please don't get me wrong. I absolutely love Disney movies. I'm willing to accept some bobbles in truth if they try an historical event, but the whole thing ringing false, that's my problem. As we've noticed in Griffon and other examples, the Companions Choose people whose gifts and skills will be needed. This is lovely plotting and it makes you think the Companions have some sort of precognition as to what's going to happen. Yfandes even says she knew what Choosing Vanyel would mean when she did. Gwena was "created" because the Companioons thought the first Herald-Mage in 600 years should have a special Companion, although, to me it would have been more logical to have one of the old Herald-Mages be her Companion. A little more experience than Gwena, who is actually 14 years YOUNGER than Elspeth, would probably have been more logical. Plotting-wise, no, but logic (or my own cracked version of it) dictates otherwise. The only problem I have with the precognition thing is that it puts the Comp. on a higher level than I interpret them being on. Yes, they are from another plane, or whatever you want to call it, but they aren't perfect. I would like to hear more of the story behind their creation and the trials and tribulations Valdemar and his lady went through after leaving the Empire. There could be some really cool stories there. Maybe a trilogy on that? After all, the introduction of the Heralds as peacekeepers and the initial maneuverings to ensure those with power were the Heralds, you know, changing the laws in favor of Heralds, would surely have burned some nobles up. Oh, boy, did I ever ramble. :) Anna&Ana, it sounds like you two are in trouble. Doppelganger, anyone? ;) I liked Tad, actually. I appreciated him a little more than Skan. I kind of know what it's like to be in the shadow of other family members. My brother and mother are both sports freaks. I'm overweight, like to read and a relative loner. Not total, but somewhat. I've played sports and I'm good at some of them, just not like Chris or Mom. I like crafts, but Mom does every craft imaginable. Do you know how hard it is to find one of your own in that case? :) I've started designing my own cross-stitches, but I found out a bit ago that my mom did that too, once. Since she doesn't do it now, I've tagged that as mine and she can't have it. Nyah! :p So, you can see that I empathize with Tad and Blade wanting their own identities. Read OFlight and you'll get a line (not a spoiler, really, so I feel I'm safe saying it) that there are a lot more stories about Tad finding his own voice in history. That by this time the stories about Skan are usually lucky if they have a good bit of truth. Let's see, what page? Have to run upstairs and get it. Be right back. To entertain you while I'm gone, Hobgood will do his interpretation of that classic--Frog Jingle Bells (it's all he knows). Have patience with him, he's only a frog. Here we go. I hope frog legs aren't on any of your menus tonight. The text evd for Tad vs. Skan-- "We don't have *any* stories of Skandranon as a young, rash, and fallible gryphon, only those in which Skandranon succeeds beyond anyone's wildest dreams and pulls off another miraculous, heroic coup. By this time there is so much myth associated with the Black Gryphon that trying to emulate him would be impossible, and failing would be devastating. No, he could do a lot worse than try to copy Tadrith Wyrsabane; by the time Tadrith was growing up, White Gryphon was well established, and we have plenty of tales about how difficult it was for him to make a name fore himself in hid father's shadow." OFlight p202 Oh, found the textevd for 'Fandes & Van-- :I knew what our bond would come to then, when I first Chose you--and I don't regret my Choice...: Yfandes just came rushing back to his side after dropping off Stef-MPrice p326 Well, I think I've mumbled enough. This post turned out to be rather long. Just one other thing. I found a bookmark the other day. It's Garfield and he's got this evil little smile and crossed arms. Below him it says, "I'm not always right, but I'm never wrong." :p Thought you guys would like that. It fits all of us perfectly. Shadowspun & Hobgood (Changing the sig to something else. We were getting bored with that quote.) _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 16:57:42 GMT From: troll-+AT+-netcomuk.co.uk To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Friendship Ring passes on... Message-ID: <1998321165957714771-+AT+-netcomuk.co.uk> The air in the Hall of Mist shimmers and hums as the Troll Adept puts forth his power. A strange chocolate taste fills the mouths of all the gathered beings in the Hall. A reddish glow appears around his fist, then slowly drifts outward to illuminate a small woman carrying a large bucket. Conversations stop momentarily as all nearby listsibs, pets and familiars instinctively turn to look at Yvonne Shadowshape, Knight of Fluff and Bearer of the Enchanted Bucket. "Although you are not a newbie, milady, you have been most helpful and friendly to those who are new to our gathering, and so I deem you worthy to bear the Friendship Ring. Wear it for a week and then pass it on to another worthy bearer in turn." The Troll Adept removes the ring from his finger and places it on one of Yvonne Shadowshape's fingers with a smile. As he does so, three separate rings appear on his own hand. With a smile, he waves his hand, Yvonne Shadowshape ceases to glow and conversations all around resume. Muranog Shadowbane Troll Adept and Knight of Fluff and his bondmate Sable, the giant black war sheep ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 11:54:44 EST From: shadowspun-+AT+-juno.com (Heather A Tomlinson) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Hardorn? & magic/Firesong Message-ID: <19980321.115305.6375.2.shadowspun-+AT+-juno.com> But the Heralds were properly shocked to find out about the Hardornens using magic. And even when they were fighting the battle they were using the knowledge from the Bardic tradition. The bards have to know these songs, especially since heroes like Vanyell are part of them. They just think of them as long ago and never to be again. It did say in one of the later books, even though Elspeth wants the Bardic Circle to put the old songs about magic back into circulation, they are kind of ignored, but the people still know they exist. Why else would Talia want to read a story about Vanyel in the beginning, after all. As for Firesong, Brightstar and Featherfire were both in the same vale. I guess after 600 years it's entirely possible for some of their descendants to make a pair of it and produce offspring like Firesong. Short, I know, but it came just as I was sending the other letter out. As always. :) Shadowspun & Hobgood _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 12:41:45 -0500 From: Greg Wooledge To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Quenten/real or no?/reincarnation/Storms Message-ID: <19980321124145.28553-+AT+-phoenix.local> Rainbow (cf-+AT+-leightons.demon.co.uk) wrote: > Hey, I was thinking - in Afall in the battle with the Karsites, how come > they could think and knew about magic? I mean didn't Van + Stef put a > prohibitation on magic thinking/speaking ect? I believe that the restriction Van & Stef devised prevented people from thinking about magic only in terms of present-day Valdemar. The people of Valdemar were able to think about magic as long as it was "long ago" or "far away". Preventing people from seeing magic being thrown at them from across the border would have been a disastrous blind spot. -- "Daddy, why do those people have to | Greg Wooledge use Microsoft Windows?" | wooledge-+AT+-kellnet.com "Don't stare, son; it's not polite." | http://www.kellnet.com/wooledge/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 11:18:41 -0800 (PST) From: Ana Cotton To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: braidy type thing Message-ID: <19980321191841.24908.rocketmail-+AT+-web1.rocketmail.com> April wrote: >Who has had the Ring thus far? I know Niki and Typodragon did, but >who else has had it? Current bearer is of course, our Troll-Adept, >but I know I forgot at least two of the Bearers...oh dear...what's >the URL for the story again? I'll just have to go read it...again...>> Niki, the Warrior, TypoDragon, Fallen Angel, Muranog, Yvonne. And the url is: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/6573/lfr.html ------------ Anna wrote: >That funny you suggest Lyssa. I was going to suggest that I could >post as Liza, as my first name is really Anna-Liza. That is almost >close enough to be a coincident. >>>> How about the fact that *my* full first name happens to be Analyssa? This is scarrryy. Now, if your middle name is Jeannine we're like really caught in a time warp or something. ---------- Speaking of the Ring story, I'm still working on it. === Hugs, Ana, proud Knight of Fluff. Listee for JC Jointly owned subsidary of a dog, and her sister's cat who thinks crawling all over her aunt is the way to read any list. "Is there room in your life, for one more trip to the moon?"--The Cure,'Wrong Number' "We danced in the graveyard with vampires till dawn."- -Tori Amos, 'Little Earthquakes' http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/6573 _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free -+AT+-yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 15:37:36 -0400 From: Anna To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Fluff and the obMisty Message-ID: <351416FF.7E35575F-+AT+-nbnet.nb.ca> Heartsong and Apache Tear wrote: > When Heartsong has had her fill, she leaves the group to find two others. > Apache Tearfollows close behind. She goes to Anna first and hugs her. Then > she hands her an Apache Tear and Apache Tear licks her hand. They both > send Anna a feeling of aceptance and welcome. Then they ask her to join in > the fun and dance. Also Heartsong reaches into the Mist and brings out a > small white owl. She mindsends: This is a familiar from my home. Her name > is Anastasia. In my home every child recieves a familiar not long after > they are able to talk. This one has no child because she was the last in > her batch. She could really use a friend like you and she would stay with > you always. She is very smart and can mindspeak. She also has magical > powers like my Apache Tear. Would you like her?" > > The small owl flies from Heartsongs hands onto Anna's shoulder. There she > caresses the girl's cheek and mindsends: You are truly caring and I would > like to be you friend. Will you have me? Stepping into the light, Anna says, "Of course I'll have you. How could I say no? Thank you so much Heartsong and Apache Tear, I'll take very good care of her. Greetings to you, Taynar, I'm glad to see that I am not the only newbie here. Beltain and Samhain are amazing. I've always had a fascination with wolves. Their song is so beautiful." Anna steps back into the dark to become acquainted with her new friend. An owl! Perfect since she likes the night so much better than the day. "I'll come and dance later. Does anyone know any Maritime style music? Maybe Stan Rogers. It's quite popular in a place called Canada outside of the Hall..." obMist I imagine this has already been discussed to death, but in the first book of Arrows of the Queen , Talia is reading of Vanyel. In the few pages she reads, there is mentioned another Herald and how this Herald thinks Vanyel looks "faintly sinister." Has anyone heard if Misty had already thought through a story of Vanyel, or did she decide to write about him later? I kind of think that the second Herald had to be there to take Stefan to the guardhouse because regular people would not be able to comprehend that Yfandes would have that kind of power. The writer of the story Talia was reading had to explain it somehow, and used rationalization. - There is no way a horse, even if it is a Companion, could cover that space in that time, so there had to be another Herald there, even if no one talks about it. - Anyway, that is what I think. Any other opinions? -- Anna (and Anastasia) Teachers open the door, but you must enter by yourself. -Chinese Proverb ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 15:46:25 -0400 From: Anna To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Short one, sorry... Message-ID: <35141911.190950DB-+AT+-nbnet.nb.ca> Ana Cotton wrote: > http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/6573/lfr.html I was wondering about this, thanks for posting the link... > How about the fact that *my* full first name happens to be Analyssa? > This is scarrryy. Now, if your middle name > is Jeannine we're like really caught in a time warp or something. > Ok, now feel relief.. I don't have a middle name (strange Eurpopean custom ) I'm named after my grandmother on my Dad's side. He's Italian, and I got the red-hair..... Actually, my Mom is "of direct Irish descent" That probably doesn't mean anything to anybody, but where I live, "The Most Irish City in Canada" people seem to care. Sorry it was so short.... Oh, just one more thing Dancing up and down, "It's Spring, It's Spring. One more month till riding season...." -- Anna and Anastasia (Proud owner of the modern horse, a '81 Yamaha Maxim and it's GREEN. I love green) Teachers open the door, but you must enter by yourself. -Chinese Proverb ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 14:58:05 EST From: Kago23618 To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Quenten/real or no?/reincarnation/Storms Message-ID: <358e9618.35141bd1-+AT+-aol.com> >Um, there weren't any Karsites in AFall. Methinks you mean Hardornens. >And the Heralds and Guards could presumably think about magic because >either A) the protections were weak and fluctuated on the Border, >B) Vanyel and Stefen decided it'd be counterproductive to not let them >believe in the ENEMY magic(depending on how much conscious control Van >and Stef had of things...probably not so likely), C) seeing the enemy >magic actually at work in battle overrode the protections, I'm leaving out "D" because misty never makes mistakes... they're plot elements ;) What if it was talia bringing up the subject that allowed them to talk about it? I mean, what if what Van & Stef did prohibited them from thinking about it if there was not catalyst? ------- Cheezlbub of Undernet at your Service! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 15:39:26 -0500 From: "Amanda Whaley" To: Subject: Re: short stories Message-ID: <199803212052.PAA21185-+AT+-HME1.smtp.sprint.ca> John E. Morris wrote: > Am I the only one who isn't a huge fan of fantasy short stories? Now, I > love Flannery O'Connor's short stories, and other contemp. fiction type > short stories, but I really don't like fantasy shorts. No John, you're not the only one. 'Cept I dislike almost all short stories. They end way too soon and the characters are never fully developed. Cyrene ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 16:06:57 -0500 (EST) From: Kenneth Allen Hyde To: Misty Lackey List Subject: Braid: stereotypes/McCaffrey/Rolan/Norton/Disney/etc. Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, Femmy wrote: > I think any writer is free to write any kind of characters she wants. > She can put in gay characters in her story or not, it's up to her. But > once she put them in, she must make sure that the characters are > believable and not fall into stereotypes. I agree with the first part of this, but I have to take issue with the second part. A writer can write any type of character that they want, whether that character is a stereotype or not. Nor do they have to be accurate or supportive characters. The writer has the option of creating extremely derogatory and mean-spirited characters, or even just badly written ones. We, as readers, have the option of buying or not buying the books. We can also lament, to some extent, the state of affairs in the world of writing. But we should remember that the only real way that we entitle ourselves to complain vociferously is to become writers and do our best to present the sort of characters that we want to see. It's the classic situation: if you don't like something, you can either complain or you can try and do a better job. The first option is not one that most people will put up with for long if it is not accompanied by the second option. At least, that was how I was raised: you don't criticize someone strongly or harshly unless you are willing to do the same job they are doing and try and do it better. On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, Kaki wrote: > The first Pern books (the Menolly trilogy) were by far the most in-depth > portrayal of any character in the series. McCaffrey mentions some > pretty shocking events (think Brekke) without ever giving us the kind of > personal background that someone like Misty does... Actually, the DragonRiders books were published first. DragonFlight and DragonQuest were both out in 1971, while DragonSong was first published in 1976. So, the background material for some of the events (Brekke's "cry in the night" and the flight of F'nor and Canth, e.g.) in the Harpercraft Hall series had been published years before these books ever came out. Sort of like Misty's later books assume that you have already read AotQ and the Herald of Valdemar series and know what Companions and Heralds are, etc. On Thu, 19 Mar 1998, Heather Tomlinson wrote: > Speaking of maps and descriptions, which I won't get into, which way of > illustrating did you all like better? When Larry Dixon did them in pen > & ink or painting them (maybe watercolors, can't tell, myself)? I like > them better in pen & ink. Actually, I don't like Larry's artwork at all. I don't think that the characters look anything like the descriptions in the text. Although, that brings up the question of whether the mismatch is a failing in the artwork or a failing in the author's ability to describe the characters in words. =) On Thu, 19 Mar 1998, Ambyrglow wrote: > On p. 11 of Storm Warning, it says "Let mere kings flaunt their golden > crowns; the Emperor boasted a circlet of electrum" Electrum is an alloy > of gold and silver; why is considered better than gold here? Any > thoughts? Two possibilities. I'm not sure how easy the alloy electrum is to make. If it is difficult to make, it might be rarer than gold, although it is actually only partly gold and partly silver. The other possibility is that they may be referring to naturally occuring electrum which may be very rare. Hmmm. A third possibility is that maybe Misty didn't know what electrum was and was basing her use of it on the D&D usage which has it listed as more expensive than gold or silver, IIRC. On Fri, 20 Mar 1998, Jeanne wrote: > This is textevd with an answer, for like our beloved Troll-adept stated, > Rolan must have known that Holderkin did NOT tell children of > Companion's Choice, and knew that without a whole building full of > Heralds, Talia wouldn't have believed she was Chosen... Well, this is pure speculation. Rolan's motives are never alluded to. It is possible that he thought that she might be easier to handle and get to Haven, if she didn't have to worry about what was waiting for her. However, I have a feeling that the "forgetting" was more a plot device that Misty used to make the trip to Haven more interesting and to allow the readers to enter the world of the Heralds as Talia did (for a further analysis of this, I can make my paper on the subject available: Hyde, Kenneth. 1993. "Getting Into the Novel: The Entry Milieu in Women's Narrative." ms. University of Tulsa.---Hee-hee. I've always wanted to be able to cite myself. *giggle* Academics are easily amused, aren't they.) On Fri, 20 Mar 1998, Ambyrglow wrote: > What makes Empathy so different from Mindspeaking or Mage gift > in this respect? Earlier in the book it says "anyone can be broken"; > why not Empaths? I get the feeling I'm missing something here. . . I think that the problem is that "breaking" an empath would also have the effect of breaking their power. You could probably break an empath to servitude, but only at the cost of destroying their power in the process. Either that, or driving them insane. Although, again, as before, I think this was mostly something Misty stuck in because it sounded good and helped the plot along, not because there is a necessary and principled reason for it. I think that it should be possible to "break" an empath to servitude without rendering their powers useless. It would just take patience, creativity, and a heart of stone. Perhaps the empaths that Mornelithe caught should just count their blessings that he was not a terribly patient person. On Sat, 21 Mar 1998, Terrae wrote: > I have been rereading many of my books and I have been wondering if > anyone besides me has noticed that there is similarity between Misty's > style of writing and Andre Norton? Hmmm. I have always thought that they were almost diametrically opposed in style. Andre Norton's writing is very "stilted" and has a rather epic and "grande" manner to it, even in her books for children. Plus she is much "darker" in mood. Misty's books are all very light and upbeat, even when the stories are actually fairly depressing, because Misty's style of writing is very light and upbeat. However, Norton's writing, even on the simple domesticities of life, is very dark and ominous, with hints of sorrow and ancient tragedy lingering about. > Does anyone else read Norton? Well, as you can tell, I do. =) > She is well known in sci-fi fantasy and ifI am correct, Misty holds her > in high esteem? Actually, saying that Andre Norton is well-known is like saying that "Madonna is a well-known singer" or that "Liz Taylor has been married a few times." =) BTW, have you read the novel that Misty wrote with Andre Norton and MZB? It's called Tiger Burning Bright, and it is very interesting to read, if for no other reason than comparing the styles of the three writers. You can clearly tell who is doing the writing for any given character. =) On Sat, 21 Mar 1998, Heather Tomlinson wrote: > Disney-the only problem I have with the movies fostering interest in the > children is when they do find out the truth, they could be either > disappointed or disbelieving. I was completely destroyed when I found > out the truths behind some historical happenings. Columbus, Pocahontas, > the Crusades. When I found out some of the truth behind Columbus it > wasn't so bad. Well, I have to say that I love Disney. And I don't worry to much about historical accuracy (particularly when we're talking about stories that were fiction in the first place, such as Hercules and the Hunchback). And, quite frankly, my own personal feeling is that it doesn't hurt anyone to think nice things about our past. There seem to be enough people who are determined to see only the bad in history that we shouldn't begrudge a few people who want to make it happy and beautiful. Colombus was neither as good nor as bad as he was made out to be by either historical camp. And the settlement of the New World had its dark moments (and not just for the Europeans), but it also had its bright moments. A good history would try to show the light and the dark and put both in their proper context. Unfortunately, that doesn't happen, neither in school texts nor in movies nor in the popular press. So, I am happy to see that at least *both* the demonizers and the sanitizers are getting some public exposure, and hopefully they will balance each other out. May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd Councilor of Mist Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me //www.ling.udel.edu/hyde/prof/ken.html ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1530 **********************************