MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1533

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Braid: Empathy thing. etc.
	by "John E Morris" <JEATONM-+AT+-prodigy.net>
  2) books...misty stuff
	by "Marv Watson" <skywolf-+AT+-washington.sbceo.k12.ca.us>
  3) Re: books...misty stuff
	by Flaime13 <Flaime13-+AT+-aol.com>
  4) 
	by "Lisa Tunnicliff" <unicorn81-+AT+-hotmail.com>
  5) Re: Lisa
	by troll-+AT+-netcomuk.co.uk
  6) Re: Braid
	by fenris-+AT+-ptdprolog.net (Taynar Fenrir)
  7) Braid: Disney/larry's art/ angels/ gay characters in MZB
	by Kaki Notestine <knotes93-+AT+-simons-rock.edu>
  8) Oooh, a flaming
	by Tifalheart-+AT+-webtv.net (April Hunt)
  9) Re: Braid: Disney/larry's art/ angels/ gay characters in MZB
	by Kenneth Allen Hyde <kenny-+AT+-UDel.Edu>
 10) braid: lifebonds / Talia &Vanyel / Cinderella / Hall of Mist
	by katiekins2-+AT+-juno.com (Katie Snyder)
 11) a bit of a braid...
	by snath-+AT+-vt.edu
 12) Re: Braid: Disney/larry's art/ angels/ gay characters in MZB
	by Kaki Notestine <knotes93-+AT+-simons-rock.edu>
 13) Germanic Folklore
	by "ANDREA HUNTER" <hunta980-+AT+-cottey.edu>
 14) Braid:Elspeth and Firesongs power; rding messages
	by Adrienne Metz <ametz-+AT+-u.arizona.edu>
 15) Cinderella / obMisty (Eldan)
	by katiekins2-+AT+-juno.com (Katie Snyder)
 16) Faerie Tales
	by dprono-+AT+-planet.eon.net
 17) Re: Cinderella / obMisty (Eldan)
	by "Tiana Praxl" <lady_tiana-+AT+-hotmail.com>
 18) ObMisty, Eldan/currency
	by Tifalheart-+AT+-webtv.net (April Hunt)
 19) Braid???
	by "Freedom Walker" <freedomwalker-+AT+-hotmail.com>
 20) Re: Cinderella / Eldan
	by "Raven Darkblade" <abbykat-+AT+-hotmail.com>
 21) Re: Germanic Folklore
	by Kenneth Allen Hyde <kenny-+AT+-UDel.Edu>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 00:42:58 -0500
From: "John E Morris" <JEATONM-+AT+-prodigy.net>
To: "Mercedes Lackey List" <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: Braid: Empathy thing. etc.
Message-ID: <01bd561e$89a5e440$08109cd1-+AT+-default>

>I would assume it would be possible
>for an empath to be twisted (Mornelithe twisted Starblade's emotions and
>warped his ability to love, etc)  I hadn't thought of this before, I
>don't see why the same thing couldn't be done to an empath, so that they
>would enjoy pain, etc.

    I wonder if maybe the problem with breaking empaths comes from
feedback - Since breaking a person, or "brainwashing" them is the result of
heavy doses of varying emotional stimuli, then overdosing an empath might
result in a sort of <excuse the imagery> mental vomiting.  Course, there's
no textevd to back ths up - just speculation.

>With
>Winds especially, Misty jumps around from POV to POV. She always does
>this, but in Winds it's kind of exhausting.

I had a bit of a problem here too, but it didn't really bother me.  I still
felt like there was a well-developed plot within each of the books in the
Winds trilogy.  I really hate it when authors get somewhere really
interesting with a particular plotline and then switch to somebody else.
Robert Jordan does it all the time, as does ML after LHM.  Where I really
started experiencing a dissappointment was with the Storms series.  With
Winds, while there were the constant changes of POV, I enjoyed each book as
a contained unit - each was a part of the story arc, but each had plotlines
specific to that volume that were introduced and then resolved throughout
the course of the book.  With the Storms series, I didn't think that each
book was readable on its own.  It was more like the three books should have
been published as one large volume.  They sort of drifted around and didn't
go anywhere.  Don't get me wrong, I still enjoyed them well enough,
especially one and three.  I just hated the fact that there were about six
chapters in each book - we didn't spend enough time with the characters
we've come to know and love, and frankly I couldn't give a damn about the
Empire...

Here's a sort of random question - do Firebirds really create fire or do
they just appear to?

Finally - thanks to everyone who sent positive feedback on my little
diatribe. <blush>  I won't really comment on the one negative response - you
can probably guess who it was, and since he has said that he will summarily
delete any message from me without reading it, it doesn't really matter.
Anyway, thanks.  Your "empathy" (hey, it ties in!) means a great deal.

John E. Morris


------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 23:29:46 -0800
From: "Marv Watson" <skywolf-+AT+-washington.sbceo.k12.ca.us>
To: <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: books...misty stuff
Message-ID: <01bd562d$74a61380$418030cc-+AT+-skywolf>

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Hi, it's Skywolf and Misha back from lurking.  I finally finished all of =
my email and have a chance to answer back to some topics that have =
pricked my interest.  Now, bear with me, the first is a little dated, =
but i felt i had to respond.
    Suicide- I am of two opinions about this.  I take several medicines =
that cause depression and suicidal tendencies on top of being normally =
depressed a great amount of the time.  At one point I did attempt =
suicide, I was going through a nervous breakdown and a severe reaction =
to some drugs (illegal) I had taken.  I was tweleve, and it - wasn't - a =
good time.  Because of my subsequent drug use and normal (I'm grinning =
here) insanity I feel that I am a survivor, I'm alive, I'm whole and =
continue to wish to stay that way.  So, in a way, I have little pity for =
people who commit suicide because they feel they're not understood.  =
But, I also believe in being freed from a terminal illness that will not =
get any better, and that all that your future holds for you is a slow =
wasting pain.  Please don't flame me?
    Now, to get to the other points I wished to raise on this post. =20
1) Beside TLHM, what other books are there that have homosexual main =
characters?  I haven't found any, (besides McCafferey, and that was only =
slight) and I was wondering if Misty was a pioneer in this field.=20
2) Does anyone know what the Levan Firestorm book is called, when it =
will be out, etc.  For some strange reason, I really want to read this =
book.

    As to my earlier comment on suicide, I mean NO offince to ANYONE.  =
I'm not shouting, I'm not whining, I'm simply stating a belief.  I =
really really really don't want to be flamed as I have been whenever I =
opened my mouth about a touchy subject (this was a while ago, and since =
then I haven't dared open my mouth).  So in advance and in paranoid fear =
that someone WILL take offince and yell at me, I'm sorry?  Really really =
sorry?  Sheep, chocolate-mint sheep to anyone who's angry. =20

Swingfully Yours,
Skwolf and Misha
Prietesses of the Order of John the Guitarr Player



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<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.71.1712.3"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#fffff0><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Hi, it's Skywolf and Misha back from =

lurking.&nbsp; I finally finished all of my email and have a chance to =
answer=20
back to some topics that have pricked my interest.&nbsp; Now, bear with =
me, the=20
first is a little dated, but i felt i had to respond.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Suicide- I am of =
two opinions=20
about this.&nbsp; I take several medicines that cause depression and =
suicidal=20
tendencies on top of being normally depressed a great amount of the =
time.&nbsp;=20
At one point I did attempt suicide, I was going through a nervous =
breakdown and=20
a severe reaction to some drugs (illegal) I had taken.&nbsp; I was =
tweleve, and=20
it - wasn't - a good time.&nbsp; Because of my subsequent drug use and =
normal=20
(I'm grinning here) insanity I feel that I am a survivor, I'm alive, I'm =
whole=20
and continue to wish to stay that way.&nbsp; So, in a way, I have little =
pity=20
for people who commit suicide because they feel they're not =
understood.&nbsp;=20
But, I also believe in being freed from a terminal illness that will not =
get any=20
better, and that all that your future holds for you is a slow wasting=20
pain.&nbsp; Please don't flame me?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Now, to get to =
the other=20
points I wished to raise on this post.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>1) Beside TLHM, what other books are there that have =

homosexual main characters?&nbsp; I haven't found any, (besides =
McCafferey, and=20
that was only slight) and I was wondering if Misty was a pioneer in this =
field.=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>2) Does anyone know what the Levan Firestorm book is =
called,=20
when it will be out, etc.&nbsp; For some strange reason, I really want =
to read=20
this book.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; As to my earlier comment on =
suicide, I mean=20
NO offince to ANYONE.&nbsp; I'm not shouting, I'm not whining, I'm =
simply=20
stating a belief.&nbsp; I really really really don't want to be flamed =
as I have=20
been whenever I opened my mouth about a touchy subject (this was a while =
ago,=20
and since then I haven't dared open my mouth).&nbsp; So in advance and =
in=20
paranoid fear that someone WILL take offince and yell at me, I'm =
sorry?&nbsp;=20
Really really sorry?&nbsp; Sheep, chocolate-mint sheep to anyone who's=20
angry.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Swingfully Yours,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Skwolf and Misha</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Prietesses of the Order of John the Guitarr=20
Player</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 02:51:13 EST
From: Flaime13 <Flaime13-+AT+-aol.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: books...misty stuff
Message-ID: <8106af81.3516147b-+AT+-aol.com>

In a message dated 3/22/98 11:46:57 PM Pacific Standard Time,
skywolf-+AT+-washington.sbceo.k12.ca.us writes:

<< 1) Beside TLHM, what other books are there that have homosexual main =
 characters?  I haven't found any, (besides McCafferey, and that was only =
 slight) and I was wondering if Misty was a pioneer in this field.=20 >>
:::Steps out from the shadows:::
While not homosexual, the main character of Tanya Huff's "Sing the Four
Quarters," and the main character of the next two, "Fith Quarter" and "No
Quarter" are both bisexual
:::steps back into the shadows as she says:::
blessings,
Flaimecat

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 18:35:50 EST
From: "Lisa Tunnicliff" <unicorn81-+AT+-hotmail.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Message-ID: <19980323083551.26368.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com>

:The three stooges Hesitantly speak up looking around for Balefire 
(Isn't that a RJ device, what's it doing in the Halls of Mist):

We don't want to but in but we just fininshed reading Red Star rising - 
and thought it was fairly good, but on the point of the gay characters - 
could she just use them as a plot device to show the gradual changes in 
the werys (ie to only female queen riders) over the years. Maybe it was 
conincidental in the way they wre protrayed. It could just be that she 
used P'tero wanting a portret as a way of getting Iantine to draw in the 
Weyr, and didn't wan to include anymore couple (think that 3 was 
enough). Also P'tero shows up the emotionally fraige people who are in 
the weyr (as these haven't been depicteed before). This may have nothing 
to do with the fact that they are gay! She may have just wanted to stop 
the character list from becoming to long - and no other couples were 
avilable. Remember this is just IMHO, and an alternative viewpoint, so I 
won't be hurt by critism!

ObMisty - I read Oathbreakers the other day, and it says that the 
Taylderas that T & K in Obound met was called Moonsong. Isn't it 
Moonsong also a mage in THLM? Now is this just
1)I'm misremeerbing it, (As I don't have either of the books here)
2)She's reused the name
3)It's the same character!
Any info would be appriciated! *s* 

>From the 3 Stooges
Lisa, Uni and Claude.

"You gotta break Omlettes to make eggs"

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 09:11:50 GMT
From: troll-+AT+-netcomuk.co.uk
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Lisa
Message-ID: <19983239142241-+AT+-netcomuk.co.uk>

On 03/23/98 09:01:04 Lisa wrote:
>
>ObMisty - I read Oathbreakers the other day, and it says that the 
>Taylderas that T & K in Obound met was called Moonsong. Isn't it 
>Moonsong also a mage in THLM? Now is this just
>1)I'm misremeerbing it, (As I don't have either of the books here)
>2)She's reused the name
>3)It's the same character!
>Any info would be appriciated! *s* 
>
You're misremembering it ;) The Tayledras mage with a similar name
in THLM was Moondance, not Moonsong. Also consider the timeline:
for a Tayledras mage to live from Vanyel's time to Tarma and Kethry's
time, he'd have to be well over five hundred years old! As far as I
know Misty's never said anything to indicate that Tayledras live that
much longer than other humans.

Wind to thy wings, salt water to thy hair and chocolate sheep to thy larder,

Muranog Shadowbane
Troll Adept and Knight of Fluff
and his bondmate Sable, the giant black war sheep



------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 14:24:44 GMT
From: fenris-+AT+-ptdprolog.net (Taynar Fenrir)
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Braid
Message-ID: <199803231424.OAA09480-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk>

Yvonne wrote:

>	A wild yell echoes across the Hall and many jump in fright? Surprise? For
>no apparent reason? Anyways, a slight young woman with dripping dark brown
>hair hurtles across the floor towards the two newbies that have been
>foolish enough to announce themselves. * SALT WATER SPLOSH!* "And a very
>happy hello to you and your familiars! Are you perchance a Druid?"
>
        At a casual pace Taynar carefully reaches for a towel to dry
off his two, now soaked, companions.  "Nay mi' lady.  I consider myself a 
pathfinder such as Wolf and my two companions.  Most would call me a ranger."
Carefully taking some leather out of his pack, Taynar quickly braids three
strands of leather, one red, one white, and the final black, into a small 
bracelet.  "A gift to one who shows friendship to strangers"  

I Taynar Fenrir         I "If it wasn't for reality we wouldn't
I fenris-+AT+-ptdprolog.net  I               be needing all this fantasy."


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:35:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Kaki Notestine <knotes93-+AT+-simons-rock.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Braid: Disney/larry's art/ angels/ gay characters in MZB
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.95.980322132846.19090A-100000-+AT+-plato>

-------John E. Morris wrote--------
>Very true, though Disney's animated features have taken on decidedly
>adult themes in recent years.  I, too, was a great fan of Greek mythology

I live with two Disney collectors.  I am convinced Disney is evil.  Well,
maybe not evil, but it annoys me.  My housemates did not know that the
REAL Cinderella gets the dress not from a fairy, but from a tree that
grows from her mother's grave, and that her stepsisters cut off their toes
and heels to fit in the shoe.  Let alone that they get their eyes plucked
out at the wedding...  Disney has ALWAYS taken adult stories and prettied
them up so toddlers could sing along.  Look at Bambi for heaven's sake!
The novel is NOT a happy little story with talking bunnies and skunks who
get "twitterpated".

>saw in the previews.  For one thing, Hades seemed to have WAY too much
>personality.  The myths portray him as a very solemn fellow (not to
>mention a lonely one -he had to trick Persephone to stay with him half
>the year, after all).  This pops up quite a bit in the TV series as well
>- I get so irritated when I see characters from classical mythology

The one argument I've heard in support of revisionist myth is that perhaps
it will inspire kids to go out and read the real thing.  However, I think
it's hooey.  Myth means something and we still love and read it because it
tells us stories about gut level things like murder, anger, incest,
jealousy, loneliness...By diluting it down into singable chunks it just
loses meaning, and soon I don't think we'll care about it anymore.  What
hits you at a more basic level, Kevin Sorbo, or a man who has the deaths
of his wives and chidlren on his conscience forever?

----------Cennydd Councilor of Mist Wrote:---------

>Actually, I don't like Larry's artwork at all. I don't think that the
>characters look anything like the descriptions in the text. Although,
>that brings up the question of whether the mismatch is a failing in the
>artwork or a failing in the author's ability to describe the characters
>in words. =) 

I always assumed that Misty probably helped with the drawings, rather like
one gives a description to a sketch artist, and approved them before they
went to press...But I've been disappointed regardless.  The only one that
struck me was the picture of Darkwin's father in the first Winds book.
I'm not sure it looked like him exactly, but I fell in love with the
picture.

--------John E. Morris wrote:--------
>Makes you think of all the movies and tv shows that have used the idea of
>an angel incarnated upon earth - they have all sorts of divine insight,
>but lack real-world savvy. Think Clarence with an attitude...
                                                           
Ooo, Ooo (in my best Arnold Horshack impression, waving arm frantically),
what does everyone think about the latest trend in movies of an angel
coming to earth and falling in love with human women.  (_The Prophecy II_,
a bit in _Michael_, the new Meg Ryan movie...)  I'm being way weirded out
and reminded of the passage in the bible, Genesis, Chapter 6, verse 1-4
"When men began to multiply on Earth and daughters were born to them, the 
sons of heaven saw how beautful they were and took them for their
wives...At that time the Nephilim appeared on earth and after the sons of 
heaven had intercourse with the daughters who bore them sons.  They were
the heroes of old, the men of renown.". 
Madeleine L'Engel wrote a book about the Murray twins
in which they go back to Noah's time and Seraphim and Nephilim (Fallen
Seraphim) mate with man...  Is this hollywood trend some kind of reaction
to the millenium, showing how the corruption of man is once again
infecting the heavenly host and helping bring on another apocalypse, as in
L'Engel, or are we entering a new age of heroes creating sons of angels
and mortals as Genesis seems to imply?

Just my new pet theory.  :) 

--------skywolf wrote:----------
>1) Beside TLHM, what other books are there that have homosexual main =
>characters?  I haven't found any, (besides McCafferey, and that was only
>slight) and I was wondering if Misty was a pioneer in this field.=20    

Maybe not "main characters" but MZB's Darkover novels have always had gay
and lesbian characters.  Apparently homosexuality is especially common
among young (pre-marriageable) age of that planet.  And several Comyn
Lords have been openly gay and made sister's children their heirs.  And
these were written in the 60s and 70s.






------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:42:37 -0700
From: Tifalheart-+AT+-webtv.net (April Hunt)
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Oooh, a flaming
Message-ID: <199803231742.JAA15602-+AT+-mailtod-132.iap.bryant.webtv.net>

Jeanne stood near a pillar surrounded by some type of ferny plant when
Cennydd reappeared into the Halls of Mist, ready and willing to flame.
"Good thing I gave up that subject after I did my one small posting
about it."she thought as she recognized the two limp forms in the Mage's
hands. She watched with much interest as he yelled at them and shook
them, and paid particular attention to the Mage's warning to the rest of
the list-sibs, even though she did not need it. And then she promptly
saved the message in her mind, for someday, if there ever was another
argument like this one, she would remember to stay very very clear of
it. 
As Cennydd disappeared once more, she left the base of the intracately
carved pillar, her long, now puple hair flowing along the ground, and
her dark, now black eyes instinctively  going towards one of the
newbies. His name was Taynar Fenrir. She approached him warmly, and
hugged him, as was her custom, while mentally revewing the new listsibs
which she had not gotten to hug yet. "Oh, well," she thought."They know
who they are, and I will come get them eventually!". Then she spoke to
Taynar, who was looking a bit wild-eyed from the gentle ministration of
Cennydd to Mark and John.
"Oh, don't worry about it. Our Mage of Green Silences rarely flames
anybody(aka Balefire, from the Misty SERRAted edge series~I recall
somebody asking)and if he does, they have definately deserved it. This
is a Misty list, after all, and this one particular argument has gone on
quite long enough." Seeing him relax a bit, she continued. "Now why
don't you introduce me to your friends?" she asked with light in her
eyes. "They are so beautiful, and I missed their use-names the first
time around. They are such independant creatures, and if I never got the
white-tiger of my dreams, I am sure that I would bond with a wolf
instead."

April-Jeanne Riverwolf, Disciple of Textevd,Hall of MIST
Avatar of Hikaru, Hall of Cephrio

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 12:49:54 -0500 (EST)
From: Kenneth Allen Hyde <kenny-+AT+-UDel.Edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Braid: Disney/larry's art/ angels/ gay characters in MZB
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.980323124154.28043A-100000-+AT+-copland.udel.edu>

On Mon, 23 Mar 1998, Kaki Notestine wrote:

> I live with two Disney collectors.  I am convinced Disney is evil.  Well,
> maybe not evil, but it annoys me.  My housemates did not know that the
> REAL Cinderella gets the dress not from a fairy, but from a tree that
> grows from her mother's grave, and that her stepsisters cut off their toes
> and heels to fit in the shoe.  

I can double-check this, but I just got finished reading the original
Cinderella (the French "Contes" by Perrault) and she gets the dresses from
her fairy Godmother.  I don't have my copy with me (I finished it last
week).  It's possible that the Grimms Maerchen may have a version with the
grave, but I'm not sure (I'm less versed in the Germanic stories than the
French ones).

May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit,

Cennydd
Councilor of Mist

Kenneth Allen Hyde     |  No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife
Univ. of Delaware      |  between the shoulder blades will seriously
Dept. of Linguistics   |  cramp his style  -- Old Jhereg proverb
kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu         |  A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me

//www.ling.udel.edu/hyde/prof/ken.html



------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 14:41:06 -0600
From: katiekins2-+AT+-juno.com (Katie Snyder)
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: braid: lifebonds / Talia &Vanyel / Cinderella / Hall of Mist
Message-ID: <19980323.144111.8934.0.katiekins2-+AT+-juno.com>

Heartsong wrote:
> Also is it just me or does it seem like there are more lifebondings
>around the time of Selenay than any other time mentioned?
No, I agree. There seem to be more lifebonds in Selenay's time.  Of
course, maybe it's just because we know all the lifebonded characters,
and in the other times there were more that we never met . . . <shrug>

On the Talia reading about Vanyel subject:
My impression was also that the other Herald was just Talia dreaming
herself into the story, andnot the way the book was actually written.

Kaki Notestine wrote:
> My housemates did not know that the
>REAL Cinderella gets the dress not from a fairy, but from a tree that
>grows from her mother's grave, and that her stepsisters cut off their
toes
>and heels to fit in the shoe.  Let alone that they get their eyes
plucked
>out at the wedding...  
Curiously, have you ever seen Into the Woods (musical by Stephen
Sondheim)?  This is the only place I know of that this version of
Cinderella is used in any type of movie/theatre/etc.

P.S. Cennydd -- I think this *is* the version from Grimms' Märchen,
though I don't have a copy, so I can't be sure.


Katie sighs in relief as the Mage of Green Silences disapears and life
comes back into the Hall.
:Glad it wasn't me!: she thinks.
Then she wanders off to find Yvonne, having dried off on the sheep the
Troll Adept gave her a couple weeks ago, which she has kept handy ever
since, in anticipation of this day. <g>  She spots Yvonne on the
dancefloor, and thanks her for the whatever-they-were-sheep.  Definitely
the most interesting sheep she has tried so far<g>.

sunshine sheep to all!
Katie

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Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 15:44:16 -0500
From: snath-+AT+-vt.edu
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: a bit of a braid...
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980323154416.00960534-+AT+-mail.vt.edu>

Heyla all...

Cinderella...  Perrault's (published in 1696, I think) version of the story
does feature the fairy godmother...  The version the Grimm brothers
collected (Aschenputtel) did not...  Their version (first published in
1812) was a bit more violent with feet being cut, sisters attacked by birds
and all...  Disney's version was probably based on Perrault's Cinderella
(who charitably married the sisters off to lords...)

I try to view the Disney cartoons as something unconnected whith what they
were based on.  Though I admit they annoy me when I compare them to (what I
know of) the truth.  I can enjoy them when I don't...  There was some talk
about Disney building a theme park based on American history near where I
live...  It would have been interesting to see if had worked out...  

Books with gay main characters?  Can't think of any right now, but I
believe there is a group online "The Gaylactic Network" that might have
more info.  I haven't checked it out but I believe they have stuff on
Sci-Fi, Fantasy, and Horror...  Don't have the address though...

Sheela



------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 16:09:10 -0500 (EST)
From: Kaki Notestine <knotes93-+AT+-simons-rock.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Braid: Disney/larry's art/ angels/ gay characters in MZB
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.95.980323160808.12259C-100000-+AT+-plato>

> week).  It's possible that the Grimms Maerchen may have a version with the
> grave, but I'm not sure (I'm less versed in the Germanic stories than the
> French ones).

It's Grimm.  Cinder Maiden actually, not even Cinerella.  Her name is just
Ella.

Grimms are my favorite.  They have such a darkness and reality (yeah,
reality ina fairy story :)) to them.


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 15:02:10 +0000
From: "ANDREA HUNTER" <hunta980-+AT+-cottey.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Germanic Folklore
Message-ID: <52AF38065CD-+AT+-cottey.edu>

OHOHOH I can actually get in on this discussion
Yes the Grimms brothers fairy tales have Cinderella getting the dress 
from the grave(I'm away from my books write now so I can't quote but 
oh well. Folklore is what my major is(at the moment))
I will have to check with my professor on whose version of Cinderella 
came first or last or whatever.  
Wind to thy Wings
Storm

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 14:38:06 -0700
From: Adrienne Metz <ametz-+AT+-u.arizona.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Braid:Elspeth and Firesongs power; rding messages
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980323143806.00719c7c-+AT+-pop.u.arizona.edu>

At 10:06 PM 3/21/98 GMT, Raven wrote:
>Heartsong pondered:
><<I wonder why Elspeth did not end up with the same amount of magic 
>strength as Firesong. I mean both of them are decendents of Vanyel. >>
>
>Elspeth did get quite a bit of magical power. When she and Skif rode 
>into Bolthaven (?), Quenten is taken aback at the sheer power that 
>surrounds her. The difference is that Firesong was trained from 
>childhood, while Elspeth did not even know she had the mage-gift until 
>she was already an adult.
>

I know this has already been addressed, but I wanted to add my thoughts.  It does seem in Winds and Storms that Firesong has so much more power than any other mage in the books.  But Firesong still had less power than Vanyel (at least, I interpreted that).  I also thought Elspeth had lots and lots of power,  more so even than Darkwind, IMI.  Plus, she had a new way of looking at things that Darkwind hadn't previously considered.  And my last thought is that Firesong was a Healing Adept, which was very rare.  This tends to make people even more in awe of Firesong than someone else with the same amount of power.

*****
Pam asked if everyone reads every message on the list.  For this list, I have to.  I scan it and either read carefully if it seems interesting, or skip it if it is dull.  On another list I am on, they are more consistent with subject lines.  So I know when I don't want to read about a subject, I just trash those messages.  
It took my awhile to get used to reading braids.  I don't really like them but I guess I have no choice for this list.

******
I guess that's pretty much all I had to say.  I just wanted to respond to the list so badly, but everybody already said what I wanted to add, more or less.  And there were over 100 emails to respond to!  Oh, well.

Have a good week everybody!  Silk sheep sheets for all!

Adrienne
**********
Preistess of OOPS
Member of the MisticCircle


------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 15:36:16 -0600
From: katiekins2-+AT+-juno.com (Katie Snyder)
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Cinderella / obMisty (Eldan)
Message-ID: <19980323.153617.12374.0.katiekins2-+AT+-juno.com>

Sorry, this is going to be short, but I found an answer and want to put
in my two bits.

On Mon, 23 Mar 1998 18:04:43 GMT Kenneth Allen Hyde <kenny-+AT+-UDel.Edu>
writes:
>On Mon, 23 Mar 1998, Kaki Notestine wrote:
>
>> I live with two Disney collectors.  I am convinced Disney is evil. 
Well,
>> maybe not evil, but it annoys me.  My housemates did not know that the
>> REAL Cinderella gets the dress not from a fairy, but from a tree that
>> grows from her mother's grave, and that her stepsisters cut off their
toes
>> and heels to fit in the shoe.  
>
>I can double-check this, but I just got finished reading the original
>Cinderella (the French "Contes" by Perrault) and she gets the dresses
from
>her fairy Godmother.  I don't have my copy with me (I finished it last
>week).  It's possible that the Grimms Maerchen may have a version with 
>thegrave, but I'm not sure (I'm less versed in the Germanic stories than

>the French ones).

The first version is from Grimms' Märchen.  (I found a copy that I forgot
I had, 'cause it's in German, and thus I don't look at it much.)  The
textevd is in German, so I won't give it, but if you want it feel free to
e-mail me off-list.  I'll just sum up the large differences --
1) Cinderella's father brings her a sprig froma rice bush which she
plants on her mother's grave, where it grows into a large tree.
2) When she can't go to the ball, Cinderella cries on her mother's grave
and a bird drops the beautiful dress on her, along with *golden*
slippers.
3) Doesn't say anything about midnight or anything, just that when she
leaves the Prince can't run as fast as her, so he can't keep up with her.
 Also, he had (who knows when he thought to do this, or how much havoc it
created later on) put glue on the stairs so that when she left her shoe
was stuck there.
4) When the Prince comes to let girls try on the slipper, one step-sister
cuts off her big toe to fit it in, and the other her heel, but when they
go past the grave of Cinderella's mother, two pigeons point out the blood
dripping from the slipper.
5) At the wedding, the same two pigeons pluck out the step-sisters' eyes
for their um . . . evilness and falsehood.

obMisty . . . . . 
I know! Eldan.  Does anyone else feel that Misty just came up with him as
a nice plot twist in BTS?  I liked him, but I didn't think she developed
him very well, especially when she just drops off at the end of BTS
(IMO).  Also, he's supposedly a really good friend of Selenay's, so why
is he never mentioned elsewhere?  It always seemed to me (from the Arrows
books) that Selenay didn't have any good friends . . .

Anyway, sorry there was so much OT.
Bread Sheep to all.
-Katie

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Date: 	Mon, 23 Mar 1998 15:09:54
From: dprono-+AT+-planet.eon.net
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Faerie Tales
Message-ID: <3.0.3.16.19980323150954.2e8777b4-+AT+-planet.eon.net>

>> and that her stepsisters cut off their toes
>> and heels to fit in the shoe.  

	I dunno about the grave thing, but I DO happen to own a somewhat less
'childrenised' book of faerie tales. (notice the faerie and not fairy) I
got it from my Scottish Aunt, so it IS a book of Scottish faerie tales, but
they are reasonably close to the origonals, I believe. And it does say in
them that Cindrella's sisters cut off their toes to get into the shoe. I
dunno about the attacking birds, though. In my version, at least, a bird
DID tell the prince of the sister's deeds. It said:
	"Nippy fit, and clippit fit, behind the King rides,
	But pretty fit, and little fit, ahint the caldron hides."

> Taynar quickly braids three
> strands of leather, one red, one white, and the final black, into a small 
> bracelet.  "A gift to one who shows friendship to strangers"  
	"Thankee Milord Ranger!" Yvonne ties on the bracelet and sweeps a curtsey
before melting back into the croud.

I'd add in some Misty, but as my dog is howling to go outside and be fed, I
really must go. I really like my ankles where they are, thank you! (She's a
basset hound) <g> (And she's really too laid back to do that, but you never
know! :) ) 

	BTW - anyone here read a lot of faerie tales? I'd be interested to know
what tales in my book are based on other books, ect. Please e-mail me at
dprono-+AT+-planet.eon.net if you have any info! :)

Chocolate fudgie oreo cookie crumb outer layer gooey maple fudge inner
layer sheep with a nice, tall, glass of fresh water to you all! :)




	Yvonne Shadowshape, bonded to Chiti, Chosen by Korla
	Goddess of Kelpies, Selkies, and the other Water-Borne
	Knight of Fluff
	Bearer of the Enchanted Bucket

*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&* 

The Nerids pluck their lyres
Where the green translucncy beats
And with motionless eyes at gaze
Make minstrily in the streets
	-Walter de la Mare, Sunk Lyoness

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 16:02:41 PST
From: "Tiana Praxl" <lady_tiana-+AT+-hotmail.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Cinderella / obMisty (Eldan)
Message-ID: <19980324000241.7802.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com>

Sorry if this got mangled. . . my mailbox likes to mess
up things, but. . .

Katie wrote:
>I know! Eldan.  Does anyone else feel that Misty just came up with him 
as
>a nice plot twist in BTS?  I liked him, but I didn't think she 
developed
>him very well, especially when she just drops off at the end of BTS
>(IMO).  Also, he's supposedly a really good friend of Selenay's, so why
>is he never mentioned elsewhere?  It always seemed to me (from the 
Arrows
>books) that Selenay didn't have any good friends . . .
>

Maybe I'm just grasping, but he IS (IIRC) mentioned in
AFlight. . . at the Revel, even if only briefly. (Something
about him telling stories, and later about the queen
sitting with him. . .)

I noticed this because I really liked Eldan, and I actually
read BtS before the Arrows books, so I noticed him right
off.

Wind to thy Wings!
(Or Wings to thy Wind, if you prefer. . .)

The Lady Tiana,
Wandering Bard by day,
Mistress of Darkness by night.



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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 17:32:58 -0700
From: Tifalheart-+AT+-webtv.net (April Hunt)
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: ObMisty, Eldan/currency
Message-ID: <199803240032.QAA26302-+AT+-mailtod-132.iap.bryant.webtv.net>

Can I please be promoted to almost Divinity for this? 
page 257, Arrows of the Queen, my copy
"The three of them slipped in as quietly as possible to avoid disturbing
the entertainment in progress-a tale being told by a middle-aged Herald
whose twin streaks of gray, one at each temple, stood out startlingly in
the firelight."

Arrows Of the Queen, page 263, my copy
"Talia was astonished to see the Queen, dressed in old, worn leathers,
sharing a cloak and resting her head in easy intimacy on the shoulder of
the middle-aged storyteller."

Im not sure if there is a quote to explain the Currency...there should
be a few in BtS or the Oathbooks...mercanaries, remember? All i have
right now is various mention of money, but nothing that says marks,
talons, GP's , gil, gella, whatever. Melinbonean wheels? hehehehehehe!
Be back tommorrow with hopefully textevd for the money problem!

The following quotes are all from the television series Blue's Clues,
and were first said by a Mr. Steven Burns.

"Our first clue is me, Steve."

"I've waited so long to be a clue!"

"Now, what could Blue want to do with a 
handsome guy like me, Steve?"

"Blue's clues, of which I am one."

"So our first clue was, handsome guy, Steve."

"That's about the silliest straw I ever saw."

"puppy snack.The and the ate a girl"

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 19:50:28 EST
From: "Freedom Walker" <freedomwalker-+AT+-hotmail.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Braid???
Message-ID: <19980324005029.25813.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com>

For the first time Freedom appears in person.  She places the flower 
form Kat in her hair :Thank you Kat, and be welcome: Then as if to prove 
nothing but to herself she takes the tear and places it to her forehead 
where it stays : and thank you Heartsong, friend. I am honored to know 
that such people of grace are nearby: Freedom looks nothing like anyone 
may think. Rather short but well toned for combat.  Though she always 
wears a sword and dagger she loves peace.  All too often is she forced 
into combat for other people. Her red hair is wavy and nearly reaches 
her ankles and she wears all black. Her Cloak however is a beautiful 
emerald green color. : My sword is offered to all of you, that you may 
be protected, My heart is open to all of you, that you know you've a 
friend, Walk in balance, and be strong.

I also would like to announce that I have finnally been graced with a 
pet/ friend.  Chenci an all white hawk settles on Freedoms shoulder.    
:for the time being he has chosen to stay with me...: Chenci lookes at 
the few people who are listening and tilts his head to the side. *Hi* 
Comes a quite verbal greeting form him even as there is no obvious sign 
that he talked. :He is almost an exact opposite of me...: (laughing) : I 
guess I deserve him for all my attitude....:



Freedom Justice Walker
As Always Is

Wind be kind to thy wings 
And spirit guide thy flight
Thy journey be successful
And thy burdens few and light.


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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 17:44:18 PST
From: "Raven Darkblade" <abbykat-+AT+-hotmail.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Cinderella / Eldan
Message-ID: <19980324014419.24964.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com>

As a folktale, Cinderelle would have been told and retold over and over, 
resulting in half a million different versions, of which Grimm's is only 
one. 

Eldan:

I personally loved the man. He was another of the 'not-a-man's-man' 
types that Misty frequently inserts, and he was a good match for Kero. 
And he was mentioned in AFlight, telling a story at the Heralds' 
celebration as Selenay rested her head on his shoulder, though he was 
not named (merely distincted by the streaks of white in his hair). He 
was, actually, one of my favorite Misty sidekick-heroes.

Zha'hai'allav'a,
Raven Darkblade,
Holy Hand of the Goddess of Elves,
Member of the Mistic Circle,
and Mor the raven, her familiar.

\
 \\
  \%,     ,'     , ,.
   \%\,';/J,";";";;,,.
    \%;((`);)));`;;,.,
    ,`;))((;`,`((;(;;);;,`
    ;`((```))`~ ``; );(;));;,
     `-+AT+- `(( `),    (;;);;;;`
   / `) `` /;~   `;;;;;;;);,
  / , ` ,/` /     (`;;(;;;;,
 (o  /)_/` /     ,);;;`;;;;;`,,
  `~` `~`  `      ``;,  ``;" ';,
                    `'   `'  `'

abbykat-+AT+-hotmail.com
http://www.angelfire.com/ky/Ashke/
http://dragonlance.justbecause.org/


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Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 20:47:16 -0500 (EST)
From: Kenneth Allen Hyde <kenny-+AT+-UDel.Edu>
To: Misty Lackey List <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-vanyel.herald.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Germanic Folklore
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.980323202902.19135A-100000-+AT+-copland.udel.edu>

On Mon, 23 Mar 1998, ANDREA HUNTER wrote:

> I will have to check with my professor on whose version of Cinderella 
> came first or last or whatever.  

Well, lest we forget, the Chinese version "The Little Ash Girl" probably
predates both the French and German ones.  And of course, where folklore
is concerned, there is no definitive "correct" version.  Oh, and yes, to
respond to whoever mentioned it, Disney films are usually based on the
French tales, rather than the Grimms versions.  "La Belle au Bois
Dormant," "La Belle et La Bete," and "Cendrillon" are all part of the
French courtly literature of the 17th Century and lend themselves to
Disney's touch.  

Oh, and for Yvonne, you might want to check out Andrew Lang's colored
Fairy Books.  Start with the Blue Fairy Book and work through them.  They
are essentially a catalog of wonder tales from many different cultures
(though predominantly Western ones).  They are terribly non-PC, of course.
=)  BTW, for those who dislike what Disney did to their stories, take a
look at Lang's versions.  Especially his French stories are very true to
the original text and they are the sort of thing to make you cringe at
moments.

May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit,

Cennydd
Councilor of Mist

Kenneth Allen Hyde     |  No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife
Univ. of Delaware      |  between the shoulder blades will seriously
Dept. of Linguistics   |  cramp his style  -- Old Jhereg proverb
kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu         |  A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me

//www.ling.udel.edu/hyde/prof/ken.html




------------------------------

End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1533
**********************************