MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1575 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) French Arthuriana by Kenneth Allen Hyde 2) Re re re elves:) by khil-+AT+-iland.net 3) Re: Newbie by Seasong 4) Re: Elves, elves, and more elves!!! by AprilS81 5) Braid by dprono-+AT+-planet.eon.net 6) Re: Braid: Elves/Merlin by Katie Elizabeth Owen 7) Merlin Spolier by fallenangel_ksd-+AT+-juno.com 8) Re: Merlin by Aramina2 9) Re: Braid, elves by Jehanneton 10) Re: Braid:Elves,Movie, Merlin, Addictive books by Aramina2 11) Re: Re re re elves:) by Nvrtrngbk ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 10:18:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Kenneth Allen Hyde To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: French Arthuriana Message-ID: On Fri, 1 May 1998, Sara Camarata wrote: > Amanda Carlston wrote: > > the Serach for the Holy Grail never showed up until > > Mallory's writings. > Actually, that is not entirely true. One of Chretien's romances is > "Percival, or the Knight and the Grail". The poet died while composing > it, so the Grail wasn't found, but still there was a quest for it, > admittadly not nearly as ornate as Malory's, and his isn't the first > either. I'm not completely sure, but I think that "La Quete du Sant-Graal" predates Mallory by quite a bit and it is all about the quest for the Holy Grail. It features, Lancelot, Bors, Parcival, and Galahad. I can double check (I have a copy of it at home). The whole Lancelot cycle in French is quite old, I think. May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me //www.ling.udel.edu/hyde/prof/ken.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 10:19:59 -0500 From: khil-+AT+-iland.net To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re re re elves:) Message-ID: <3549E81F.90F56E4F-+AT+-iland.net> Greetings :) Ok, I am off to buy those elven books now! My impression of elves are..close to what D&D has, but at the same time they have progressed far past that in my imagination. The best way to describe the elves I see is the comic ElfQuest by Wendy and Richard Pini. Awsome drawings! And like it is in those comics, all elves, like humans have different personality...almost different "working" class. Well, I would have written more, but I hear something about a bucket so I'll scoot over. :) Rainsong Blademeet -- _\\|//_ . o O (Hello? anyone there?) /(o o)\ -=-=-oOOo-(_)-oOOo-=-=- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 14:38:51 -0400 From: Seasong To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Newbie Message-ID: <354A16BA.1148FC37-+AT+-nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu> DragonLass wrote: > Hi! > > I'm new on the list (as the subject indicates!). My name is > DragonLass and > some people may know me from the Melanie Rawn list. > All the Lackey books I have read so far have been collaborations, and > my > favorite was Tiger Burning Bright. I have nearly finished reading > "Sacred > Ground", which I am finding very fascinating. > I'm now on the hunt for more Lackey books, and I thought someone here > could > tell me where to start. Someone on the Rawn list said that it is best > to > follow a particular order. > What would the best book to start with be? I'm very interested in > Elven > books, I believe she has done Elvenbane series with Andre Norton? > Thanks :) > > DragonLass. If you really like elves, there are the Elvenbane books (Elvenbane and Elvenblood) and a series Misty wrote called the SeRRAted Edge. It includes Knight of Ghosts and Shadows, Summoned to Tourney, Born to Run, etc. You can either start with KGS or BTR. Of the Velgarth books, I started with the Arrows trilogy, and I think that is one of the best starting points (I wouldn't start with Vows and Honor because By the Sword sort of follows it and jumps way forward chronologically). After all, the Arrows books were the first published (not including the Tarma and Kethry short stories). Sorry if this is alot to grasp, but you did ask what order to read them in. -S As for elves, I have read several different authors versions (Tad Williams, Josepha Sherman, Tom Deitz, Gael Baudino, Eddings, Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance, Shadowrun, Elf Fantastic, etc.) and I think that the four different versions Misty has used (SeRRAted Edge, Elvenbane, Bard's Tale, Bardic Choices) pretty much covers them all. My favorite version though has to be Gael Baudino's. Her elves don't feel the antagonism towards humans that alot of versions seem to. - S My husband & I noticed on M-L's bibliography list 2 Diana Tregarde books we have not been able to find: Aracnum 101 and Triangle Park. They were listed as "forthcoming", but so was Stormrising & Stormbreaking as well as The Silvergryphon so I was hoping to be able to find them somewhere. any hints?? I think that the two Diana books are still forthcoming, since I haven't been able to find them in the bookstores around here (Gainesville, FL), and they are pretty good about getting her new books. -S As for Merlin and Arthurian legends, I haven't seen the movie yet (I don't get cable), but from what I've heard it has alot of inconsistencies. I don't think that's a bad thing necessarily, because I don't think that I have ever read two Arthurian stories that kept to the same storyline. I agree that there is historical basis for Arthur and his wives, but I think the best thing about the legend is that it never dies, and even though it may change over the centuries, there is always a common thread to keep the story from getting too off base but still alowing for it to grow. My overall favorite thing is to read the stories and then compare the changes made to the time period in which they were written. I think I'll stop now, I guess its pretty obvious that I love the Arthurian legend (btw, I also took a class in Arthurian literature)?! *gryn* -S Seasong Priestess of the Goddess of Elves and Unicorns Sheba the cat and SnowFeather ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 15:12:50 EDT From: AprilS81 To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Elves, elves, and more elves!!! Message-ID: <846e8771.354a1eb3-+AT+-aol.com> In a message dated 98-05-01 02:28:33 EDT, you write: << And I LOVE Dietz's work. Anyone know when the next one is coming out? I have the feeling that the story of Tir Nan Og is coming to an end fairly soon. But they are great books. Anyone who wants a GREAT elf story should go read those. >> whilst I was lurking, I have been amazed at the amount of elf-related mail there was. I wasn't going to contribute, but it became too much. Tom Deitz! The last one I read was Landslayers Law, and the way that one ended made it pretty obvious that there was another one to come, hopefully pretty soon! They are wonderful books. The wide variety of elves and Celtic myths he uses make the stories really come alive. I don't know if there is another out at this time, but it should be soon. There aren't usually two-year waits for the next part of the Tir'Nan'Og books (Unlike the Wheel of Time...). Those elves and the elves in Misty's Urban Fantasies are my favorite. They haven't been modeled after the sterotype as much as many I have run into. Well, thats about it . SAT's tomorrow! (Much rejoicing) April ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 14:40:08 From: dprono-+AT+-planet.eon.net To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Braid Message-ID: <3.0.3.16.19980501144008.2187e78e-+AT+-planet.eon.net> Heyla! *hides bucket* There is this little thing called life that sometimes sneaks up on you when you least expect it, and it muddles your head until one can no longer remember what to reply to, and what is remembered is so outdated, it's like poodle skirts... Lifebond vs. Lovebond Yes, this is old. Skip it if ye likes! I have no problem with that. ;) Personally, I' take a lovebond if I had the choice - a lifebond is just too intamate for my tastes. The very best for ME at least, would be no bonds at all. Call me claustrophobic, if you will. I have too much to handle as it is, without someone other than a friend to worry about. :P Elves I don't read a heck of a lot about elves, really. I like the old Faerie tales, and I ~did~ enjoy the Elvenbane series LOTS. Misty's elves, well, they were a bit ... human? for my tastes. And yes, I believe that Tolkin's elves were MY first exposure. Another slightly related topic is urban fantasy (usually about elves) and one of my fav authors in that feild is Charles de Lint. I can't remember if he does elves tho... I think that it was Memory & Dream that I liked so much. The one about the spirit of the city, the balloon men, and the fae(?) lving in the old car... Dragonlass & Rainsong *Yvonne gets out that hidden (& slightly dusty) bucket, and after much creeping & hiding, she manages to get in behind Dragonlass and Rainsong, and-* ~~~SPLOSH~~~ "Welcome to the MLML! We're generally a nice bunch, and ~most~ of us dont bite! Any questons, concerns, ect, please pester all the nice folk with the Councllor in their sigs, as they are the 'know-alls' of the rules & such for enjoyable posting. :) And have fun! *Yvonne bows, and walks back into the croud* Well, I can't think of anything else to say at the moment as my head is too full of lines from my script and other such stuff, I shall sign off... *Waves* Nice to be comming out of Lurker-Mode, at least for a breif moment! :P Yvonne Shadowshape, bonded to Chiti, Chosen by Korla Goddess of Kelpies, Selkies, and the other Water-Borne Knight of Fluff Bearer of the Enchanted Bucket (tm) *&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&* The Nerids pluck their lyres Where the green translucncy beats And with motionless eyes at gaze Make minstrily in the streets -Walter de la Mare, Sunk Lyoness ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 18:49:07 -0400 From: Katie Elizabeth Owen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Braid: Elves/Merlin Message-ID: <354A5163.4E4-+AT+-snet.net> > I love the Warlock books too, but I think that the elf > type beings there are leprechans(sp?) and the like. Not exactly > elves. As I had a friend of mine explain to me the other day, "Elves > are fairies, but not all fairies are elves." I'm sorry, but I tend > to think of elves as human-sized. I know that the Stasheff books are confusing on this point, but there are elves, of which Puck is a member. The King of the Elves is a dwarf, but there are elves, not just leprechans and such. I saw _Merlin_, and I thought that it was pretty good, considering that most of the people out there who would be watching it wouldn't care if the story was correct or if the plot was perfect. I thought that it was a remarkable job for a TV station, considering that they normally seem to do no background or period research at all. Katie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 15:03:01 -0700 From: fallenangel_ksd-+AT+-juno.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Merlin Spolier Message-ID: <19980501.214300.19334.0.fallenangel_ksd-+AT+-juno.com> Sorry, I had to insert my two cents on this..... S P O L I E R S P A C E Who was this Queen Mab, and Frik? I never heard of them in any of the King Arthur stories I have read, and they played the main villans. The main villan is supposed to be Morgan Le Fey, and her part in King Arthurs downfall was downplayed. Queen Mab didn't (to my knowledge) appear in the original Arthur/Merlin stories; she was a faerie, but not the queen of faeries, as was dipicted. She was mentioned in Shakespeare's Romeo & Juliet (the book, not the movie). I forget exactly what she was supposed to have done, though. But did you all see how they depicted GRYPHONS? I was HORRIFIED! My husband already told me to quit spoiling the movie for him by pointing out all the flaws. Then I went into a detailed explanation of how Misty depicts Gryphons, and he came back with what he has heard Gryphons were like. And I said "but that's not how they really were." Actully, those were Griffins, not Gryphons. As I believe Rainbow mentioned, they are too different speices. However, that's not what Griffins are supposed to look and act like either! Anyway, I kept saying how the King Arthur story wasn't detailed correctly, and my husband kept reminding me that this is a story of Merlin, not King Arthur. The only thing that saved this story, in my opinion, was at the end, when Frik says "But that's not how I remember it". That states that it didn't necessesarily happen that way. I know, but I wanted to hear Frik's version of it! *ARGH* E N D S P O L I E R S P A C E Sorry, but I'm a fantasy hisotry buff, and HAD to comment. Kathryn Shannon FallenAngel http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/9421 Mistic Watcher for Mistic Circle: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/6543 _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 22:04:27 EDT From: Aramina2 To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Merlin Message-ID: <32d22cc1.354a7f2c-+AT+-aol.com> hey people... i happen to be new to the list and i missed Merlin sadly :sob: but i do think i know who Queen Mab was. Was she a fairy queen? If so then it probably came from Romeo& Juliet... one of the characters in there makes a long speech about the evil Queen Mab of the fairies. But i could be wrong. Does anyone know when Merlin will be on again? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 12:02:29 +1000 From: Jehanneton To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Braid, elves Message-ID: <354A7EB5.42F34EDC-+AT+-bigpond.com> Kenneth Allen Hyde wrote: > > > I have to say that my favorite elves are Tolkiens elves. But that sort of > makes sense, since almost all elves in modern fantasy fiction owe a > certain debt to the Tolkienian elves. Post-Tolkien, I like the Lios Alfar > in GGK's trilogy "The Fionavar Tapestry" and the Tuatha de Danaan in Tom > Dietz' books about Davey Sullivan and company. I also have to admit that > I really, really don't like Misty's elves (at least not her Urban Fantasy > ones). Tom Deitz' elves are my idea of how elves should be used in > Urban/Contemporary fantasy. > Ashandra said: > > >> And I LOVE Dietz's work. >> Anyone know when the next one is coming out? I have the feeling that the >> story of Tir Nan Og is coming to an end fairly soon. But they are great >> books. Anyone who wants a GREAT elf story should go read those. >> > I must just pop out of lurkdom again to say how nice it is to find some other fans of Tom Deitz. Here in Australia it's really hard to get hold of his books and I'm currently waiting until I go on holiday in Melbourne to get the last one "Landslayer's Law" (is that the last one)? I haven't read Misty's elven books (I've tended to stay with the Velgarth novels) but I do agree that Deitz has it right when it comes to elves. I like the way he portrays them as somewhat alien in their beliefs and customs. I don't really like seeing "alien" (maybe a better word is exotic) races portrayed just the same as humans. The simple fact of their immortality and their inherent magic (bad grammar there- maybe magic-ness?) would mean that they would develop different customs and beliefs. Deitz handles this very well, IMHO. What I really think grabs me about his books, though, is his human characters. They're really well written, and when I first started reading Deitz (longer ago than I'd care to admit ) I was really able to relate to Davey & the rest of the gang- their activities, taste in music, favourite authors etc etc. In fact, a couple of my friends went so far as to suggest that if David was female (an interesting concept), Deitz would have done a very good job of portraying *me* . Hmmm... an Ob Misty.... Dragonlass said: > I'm now on the hunt for more Lackey books, and I thought someone here could > tell me where to start. Someone on the Rawn list said that it is best to > follow a particular order. > Well, I don't know about everyone else, but I'd recommend reading them in the order they were published. I actually read MPawn first, then jumped to AoQ, then to MPrice, then AFlight & AFall and then back to MProm. I *don't* recommend reading them in that order- I got very confused (I won't go on, it could be a spoiler). I'd say read the Arrows trilogy first (Arrows of the Queens, Arrow's Flight, Arrow's Fall) then read The Last Herald Mage trilogy (Magic's Pawn, Magic's Promise, Magic's Price), as a historical story, then go on to the Gryphons (also historical), probably (Black, White Silver), even though some of them are out of publication order, then The Winds (Winds of Fate, Winds of Change, Winds of Fury) trilogy and then the Storms (Storm Warning, Storm Rising, Storm Breaking) trilogy. Hmm, it's not *quite* in order of publication, but close. Anyone else got any ideas? Sorry for the long post, but it's my first in quite a while! Cheers! Jehanneton ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 22:53:46 EDT From: Aramina2 To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Braid:Elves,Movie, Merlin, Addictive books Message-ID: <7067cb41.354a8abb-+AT+-aol.com> I've read alot of fantasy works and some really elen-like elves are those in the Elvenbane ( I thought they were pretty elf-like) and the ones in Terry Brook's Shannara series. Tolkien's elven characters are my favorite by far though because they have it all - from power to the pale elven complexion to the pointed ears. I'd really like to see some of Misty's works in the movies too but i don't think it will happen at least anytime soon. I've been waiting for years now for Anne McCaffrey to finish her Dragonriders movie. But usually the author wants to keep their books pure so that avid fans like us don't revolt and rise up in fury at changes in plot that are put into movies. A good example of this is Merlin. I mean no one was really happy with all the changes in the traditional story. There have been alot of complaints going around about all these changes and things we didn't agree with. Jus think how disappointed everyone would be if the plot of one of Misty's novels was changed to fit a timeslot or because some material wasn't suitable for the auidience. Also in response to Merlin which I missed, did anyone else happen to read Susan Cooper's the Dark is Rising series? Her insight into the Arthurian legend was really interesting! I just finished the Queen's Own trilogy & the mage winds and I must admit that these books are so addictive I ignored my homework for a week until I finished them. I think that's it for now ~Aramina~ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 09:58:37 EDT From: Nvrtrngbk To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Re re re elves:) Message-ID: Earlier, someone mentioned Rosemary Edghill's rather aristocratic elves. I just finished the three <> books, and I'm already starving for more! But no mention is made of upcoming novels--so, does anyone know whether there will be 12 books (one for each treasure) or if the cloak was the last. There's so much preparation of character and plot in Cloak for future storytelling, I would be very surprised if she stopped there. The elves in her series who *don't* disdain humans are very appealing. I especially like the Royal Librarian. There are some nice elven touches, such as their ability to glow at will, and the cat-eyes--I don't know whether she invented these features from whole cloth, or borrowed them. OBMISTY: I've always been intrigued with Iftel, and would love to learn more of its history. One question: what seems to be the criteria for allowing someone to pass through their <>??? I understand the battle with the Empire was life or death, but they wouldn't let just anyone through even so, & I have no text available to peruse! Refreshing spring showers to all (even if you don't like spring!) Pam ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1575 **********************************