MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1581 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Misty's Name by TifaIheart-+AT+-webtv.net (April Hunt) 2) RE: Ah, screw it! by Sheridan Hoy 3) Re: Braid:Newbies,Elspeth, apologies, JohnE.Morris by John E Morris 4) Braid: JEM... by Rainbow 5) Re: ^o^ just me blathering on by Melanie Mouck 6) Re: Braid:Newbies,Elspeth, apologies, JohnE.Morris by Melanie Mouck 7) Disney by "Raven Darkblade" 8) Re: Braid:Newbies,Elspeth, apologies, JohnE.Morris by "Heather Persellin" 9) Re: welcome/histories/obmisty by "Brian Bennett" 10) Re: Braid:JohnE.Morris/obMisty by Katie 11) MIST: the ongoing debate (was Re: Disney) by Eleonora Scoseria 12) Re: Technology, TV by dprono-+AT+-planet.eon.net 13) Braid (computers and literacy, Valdemar technology) by Greg Wooledge 14) Re: Braid: TV by Femmy Syahrani 15) the law of Misty by "Nelson Greenslade" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 02:03:20 -0500 From: TifaIheart-+AT+-webtv.net (April Hunt) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Misty's Name Message-ID: <199805080703.AAA11579-+AT+-mailtod-161.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Misty's maiden name is Dee, which is where she got her nick from, when she was an intern (at a school, I think) and they called everyone Ms. or Mr....she was single so, it was...Miss Dee, Misty, get it? So, her first husband is Tony Lackey, and her new actual last name is Dixon, and her nome de plume is Lackey, still, because that is what it was when she started writing. Clear things up? ~Back to Lurk Mode, Jeanne Riverwolf "But I paid for the apple" ~Cohen the Barbarian, Terry Pratchett, Interesting Times. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 19:45:04 +1200 From: Sheridan Hoy To: "'mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk'" Subject: RE: Ah, screw it! Message-ID: <01BD7ABB.7E2A0D00-+AT+-port44.ts1.auck.sinesurf.co.nz> ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD7ABB.7E427700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Heyla all. I don't understand why they would kick him out either.He's still a good person to have around, especially if you live in the city and are afraid of a couple of murderers on the loose! (By the way, I sprawl too and I kick, talk, and strangle my pillow, among other things)Zhai'helleva, Melanie I wouldn't kick Vanyel out either, because apart from the fact that two = people are warmer than one, I would just love to spend the night talking = to Vanyel; he is after all an amazing person.=20 I agree about all the braiding and too much fluff, I had over 100 = messages at one stage, and I thought that I was about to drown. The only = thing is that all the warnings seem to have stopped the flow of = conversation. Wind to thy Wings, tamlin ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD7ABB.7E427700 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+Ig0HAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYA6AEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAVwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAG1lcmNlZGVzLWxhY2tl eUBoZXJhbGQuY28udWsAU01UUABtZXJjZWRlcy1sYWNrZXlAaGVyYWxkLmNvLnVrAAAeAAIwAQAA AAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AAzABAAAAHQAAAG1lcmNlZGVzLWxhY2tleUBoZXJhbGQuY28udWsAAAAA AwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAAHwAAACdtZXJjZWRlcy1sYWNrZXlAaGVyYWxkLmNvLnVr JwAAAgELMAEAAAAiAAAAU01UUDpNRVJDRURFUy1MQUNLRVlASEVSQUxELkNPLlVLAAAAAwAAOQAA AAALAEA6AQAAAB4A9l8BAAAAHQAAAG1lcmNlZGVzLWxhY2tleUBoZXJhbGQuY28udWsAAAAAAgH3 XwEAAABXAAAAAAAAAIErH6S+oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIAAAAAbWVyY2VkZXMtbGFja2V5QGhlcmFsZC5j by51awBTTVRQAG1lcmNlZGVzLWxhY2tleUBoZXJhbGQuY28udWsAAAMA/V8BAAAAAwD/XwAAAAAC AfYPAQAAAAQAAAAAAAACAW8BBIABABIAAABSRTogQWgsIHNjcmV3IGl0IQAoBQEFgAMADgAAAM4H BQAIABMALQAEAAUAKwEBIIADAA4AAADOBwUACAATACgAAgAFACQBAQmAAQAhAAAAMzcyMDczRkFB QkU2RDExMTkyMUI0NDQ1NTM1NDAwMDAA0gYBA5AGAEQKAAAhAAAACwACAAEAAAALACMAAAAAAAMA JgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADAC4AAAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AIDPfDZVer0BHgBwAAEAAAASAAAAUkU6 IEFoLCBzY3JldyBpdCEAAAACAXEAAQAAABYAAAABvXpVNNr6cyA45qsR0ZIbREVTVAAAAAAeAB4M AQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AHwwBAAAAFgAAAHRhbWxpbkBzaW5lc3VyZi5jby5uegAAAAMABhDM jCeWAwAHEE0CAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABIRVlMQUFMTElET05UVU5ERVJTVEFORFdIWVRIRVlXT1VM REtJQ0tISU1PVVRFSVRIRVJIRVNTVElMTEFHT09EUEVSU09OVE9IQVZFQVJPVU5ELEVTUEVDSUFM TFlJRllPVUxJAAAAAAIBCRABAAAAKwcAACcHAACMDwAATFpGdTtSlC4DAAoAcmNwZzEyNXIyDGBj MQMwAQcLYG6RDhAwMzMPFmZlD5JPAfcCpANjAgBjaArAc4RldALRcHJxMgAAkioKoW5vElAgMAHQ hQHQNg+gMDUwNBQh8wHQFBA0fQdtAoMAUAPU+xH/EwtiE+EUUBOyGPQU0K8HEwKAApEI5jsJbzAa 3/plDjA1HAodIRzfHekb9P8eEhx/IE8gDR+PHb8cDxBg/DI4Jdom8SavJ7kb9CfivyZPKh8p3Slf J48rVDkOUB8upDABKCMwAAKCc3R56mwHkGgJ4HQAABNQA/BQZGN0bAqxXDJYYZhkanUxcAUQZ2gF QjsWMgwBYwnAMmADMHNufGV4FzAHsAWwAMACc3OxAFBzYjIUUDFgYRPw9FxrCeBwC5AyPzKjCGDr MpALgGUxoHY5YAFAM5u/DDA0ZCgAN0AEoAuAZyfx6TTmYmEXEGQCIDWgNUbnMdAzkDuRIDExMw5Q Np//N684vwBROfwAoDRuPH89hv8xJA/APo8/n0CvDlA570MP20QfPbMzAoITEGM2YEuhkzOQPbB0 aTmQIEQBEKhhdWwFQFAKwGEJwOBhcGggRgIhNiQlQOhmaS0PkDgBQDkwUDPrRw8yo2ILIHIJUFJS FqDZUlJ3NCVBFwBwAdBNcn8zv0qfS6ZP0E6QBRACMC1DTzADYTogVG9XsFModWJqBZB0V7BEYeh0 ZTo2JDZP/1EPUh//Uy9UOTHAPaMOIUuhOrYOUJtVb1Z+UjmBFwEgSD2R+wSQNiQ3WW9af1uPXJ05 Dy9dvw+QaXAI0GIKsHQ4/0n6D1RGEF+/YMZqAGHQC1C8eS9PQFywCxFiRXM2JP8oAGM/ZE9lX1yv VE9rX2xv7211V9JXdFipOW+/Mz8DMB1pszlzn3SveqBEb2P+dQeAAjAF0E8AGgMTEBrwgnYCUSB7 VW5reCEdFdJTMdA1AQORSG95vxoBeNJ4MHhwcVEBgG5YMH8AYAnwTaB9AAIBNeBeUmWXAPB9ADGA cB6AXHYIkPR3awuAZGtAgvIE8AdAfxBhAUAOAHEiPYKEVQIQb28FQhchEvJYwG0LUVjAIFBDOlxc VwBvTuFtb08wAxAHkIcATQ3gA2Bzcm8BgCBPASAN4IJAXK2ItkUAwAMQLktwdIAgbxcQeHA1IWdy eAFAgVFu739RgkCKY040Y35xEwIAgPkFkGx2QaFG0A5wNeCM4v8BkAAgjXKDQX1BAcGM4Rbgnw9w AABG0AzQAZAgLn3E/4z2DlCNkk5weMCOD48fkC+/D8BG0AWBkc+S35PvbGtA3UbQbJGPlk+XVSmQ XCVAx5Uvmg+XRGIgKAKRmy//jSNZUJjfnZ+er5+/jVBjEP+hAo3fom+jf5BcKAChD6aP/6efqK+N UHgApY+rH6wvrTTfCvkDMHgveT96zXsKhQqF+7H0AzFpr/JncK/yst+z70J7EvJia21rrwMgzl99 gAMQWKFhfWJQMZB/l6AHQInwtm+3f7iPuZkgqcBBSSBLcScFQHWvoQcXAAGQgWAgd2h5INZ0MdDB 0HcIYGw1IIMwLGNrPXAHcCBnQSBl603Af1EuYlAnBCAxcAMQ9QMgYQqFZ4WANSCCsBcA6wIgweBv PXBhTfEKwAhgfYFgLMNgcoAFkAcxbTAg6QaQIHkIYCBncE3xspF9wfEgxxAxgLwQwYEKwGX9CoVh A1ALcDUgiHC8EMig7whgC1ATgMpRbQhwBIFiAa/DIMhUCQATYSGsoELB03nBoGF5xrDAgHKATsB3 /mwKhcXQxeDBcsCAwqLGsH0BkGzPUcFytHEPYcrhbf3B0HDEUb4gz8EEYD3RhZCPf1HOFsLwD3Bz KVoW4JxpJzHQvDBnwGEsvG+/vX++j7+d19/Y79lDTWeg/wBwCJACkX4hBAAJgH4STlDXwfAAUH4h ZAJAbW7wFDDCNxQwNjk2N7ZW08b32t/b79zwNsBxwkMLkBeAXnWFkBOABUDCo1YAcHn3Z6DDKcaw YgWQTlATcU8A/7riA1LIY05A1cDB4ViwweD7wkDFUW/K0slBzTE14ASQ9+TSA6ACIGXNcsJEtFLM Qf9N8cXRxuHBgchyAwC0ss+Cfz3CxdHh9N4f3y/c4VbgO/89ccdwBCDJ4FjAycHEYgOg2YdwYXo9 wsVkLt0twID/TtEJ4LwQBuDDQe3iyHJxIL/KET3CwXLqn+uv3OE0znP/y0AW0OPwCkABIM1yXmHD IL9h8T3waXDLMAeQRlBnB5H/5QHm4cQh9wHPxMCAwfAIYP/pQ+Ty4IFLQPClxdFxQH7h/e8wVMiB AiDHUdKD7ULk4//xFm2RO4LEEQng5DHF5TFwf+WQgrDoxA9A1YDKQgWgbtth8liwae8RtfxXg0HF wv/zYMHQAQHSwNO2zhaHcGdxnxXw3ai6ZOiiuyh9AAVxAQWwAAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAAAAAADAIAQ /////0AABzBgrLCCVHq9AUAACDBgrLCCVHq9AQsAAIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAOFAAAA AAAAAwACgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAEIUAAAAAAAADAAWACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAA AABShQAAtw0AAB4AJYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAFSFAAABAAAABAAAADguMAADACaACCAG AAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAABhQAAAAAAAAsAL4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAA6FAAAAAAAA AwAwgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAEYUAAAAAAAADADKACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAY hQAAAAAAAB4AQYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADaFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAEKACCAGAAAA AADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA3hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgBDgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAOIUA AAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4APQABAAAABQAAAFJFOiAAAAAAAwANNP03AACnYQ== ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD7ABB.7E427700-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 23:35:14 -0400 From: John E Morris To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Braid:Newbies,Elspeth, apologies, JohnE.Morris Message-ID: <01bd7a32$50313ec0$c2109cd1-+AT+-default> -----Original Message----- From: Cliff Keller To: jeatonm-+AT+-prodigy.net Date: Thursday, May 07, 1998 1:04 PM Subject: Braid:Newbies,Elspeth, apologies, JohnE.Morris > >I just got to reply to what John E. Morris wrote >but first I have to say a few things. I realize that >Disney movies do not contain all the facts but as >with the Merlin discussion there is such a thing as >creative licenses. Just to make a point, I'll point out the gramatical errors, etc. in the following... 1) That's "creative license" >And if we did not view everything >that wasn't strictly factual we would probably be >missing out on a lot of good things. I don't know where to begin with this sentence - how many negatives can you cram into one phrase? Anyway on to the >reply: >First off I would like to know if John has children or if >all of this is just his opinion. I will tell you that I have >two children ages 6 and 4. So my opinions are based on >facts concerning my kids. No, I don't have kids of my own, but I have my own observations, not to mention my own experiences. I look at the friends of my nieces and nephews, my mother's students and the kids who come into the toy store where I work while I finish up grad school. I compare my own experience with those of my peers- I did read at three, I will have you know - and I see a group of people who simply do not like to read. My lack of children does not inhibit my ability to see that reading is paramount and Disney is the recourse of the inept. .. > Like I said before, I grew up with Disney and I still love >to read.(I have several hundred books in my own library) >Depending on which book I am reading I will read it to my >kids so that we share time together. My children get Disney >as a special treat. And they have many books themselves >which I have been reading to them since birth. Then your children are an exception - the average child does not read, is not read to, and will never learn to appreciate the beauty of the written word. While I do not agree with your decision to show Disney movies to your young children, I applaud your use of literature. d. >When I went to school I learned to read by the end of >first grade, my daughter is now reading in kindergarten. >I think it is great to read at an early age but some kids >have a hard time learning when developmently they >aren't ready. Personally, I was reading years before kindergarten, and was abused by my teachers because I wouldn't sit still to "learn" the alphabet which I already knew. I don't think that being introduced to good literature is EVER premature. If your child isn't ready to read it for him or herself, then fine, but what is introduced should be the written work and NOT the cartoon. Wait until your child can quote chapter and verse the written story before you numb his or her intellect with the Disney version. > I would like to think of myself as an average parent. I do not >plop my kids down in front of the TV. I make sure that >when they do view it, it is appropriate for them, no >violence, sex, drugs or bad language. Disney does >provide this mor than many other programs. It may not be >the whole story but it is better than many alternitives >out there. Why is it necessary that television be introduced at a young age? So what if Disney presents a more-age-appropriate picture that other programing? I didn't watch television regularly until I was in fifth grade. Now I love reading with my whole heart, but I wouldn't dream of missing the last episode of Seinfeld, either. I just don't think that kids should be allowed to watch television until the critical years of mental development have passed. I was horrified last week at the toy store where I am currently working, when a woman came in to purchase Transformers BeastWars toys for her child. This might not seem so bad, but it was what she said that really put the icing on the cake - she said "My son will love this - it's a toilet training incentive...I just hope it works." I can't imagine using the licencsed product of an incredibly violent cartoon meant for 12-up aged kids to encourage toilet training. Now, I love television. I'm even studying (my second college degree, before you try to make some crack about youth or inexperience - I'm pushing 30, so don't bother) to go into T.V. production, but I believe that READING SHOULD COME FIRST...we shouldn't cheat the younger generation by encouraging them to watch Power Rangers or the Disney Channel or anything else...we should encourage children to READ, READ, READ...and watch television later. >My kids love to read and I came from a family who also >does. Telling a factual story doesn't encourage reading >if it is not based in the home first! What does this mean? The point isn't that fact encourages reading, its that anything based on historical event that is designed for young minds (or any minds, to tell the truth) should be true to history...otherwise kids grow up thinking something happened that didn't. >What I meant by saying you don't know the whole truth because you weren't >there is because what we know to be truth or history >is always wrote by someone (that's WRITTEN, not WROTE) and it has a tendency to >be reflected in a different way by the writer. You're talking about personal bias here.Any good historian does his or her best to ignore personal bias. >Depending >on wether you talked to an indian or a white man they >both had different views of the same truth when it came >to Custer's laststand. I'm sure they do - there is still only one truth to the story... >I think this is true with any history. >Just because we read a history text doesn't mean it >is the absolute and only truth. It just means that it is all >we have to go on. >******************************************************** >I am sorry to everyone one for going on about this >but I just had to say what I felt was right. >Sorry no other Misty. And I completely forgot about >those students of Jaysen's. That was a funny part. >Now I am going to have to see if I can find anyother >unusal Chosings in other books. > > Let me wrap this up bluntly - we should encourage our children and younger generation to READ - we should never give them the crutch of animation that is Disney until they are old enough to see it for the crutch that it is. The truly bright and gifted people are readers, not watchers . Television, not religion, is the opiate of the masses. Administered at a young age it addicts, numbs and stupefies...It is not evil in and of itself, but like alcohol, there should be an age of consent. I won't say anymore, 'cause I obviously feel VERY strongly about this... John E Morris ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 17:36:48 +0100 From: Rainbow To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Braid: JEM... Message-ID: >Personally, I was reading years before kindergarten, and was abused by my >teachers because I wouldn't sit still to "learn" the alphabet which I >already knew. I don't think that being introduced to good literature is >EVER premature. If your child isn't ready to read it for him or herself, >then fine, but what is introduced should be the written work and NOT the >cartoon. Wait until your child can quote chapter and verse the written >story before you numb his or her intellect with the Disney version. OK, I am probably gonna get flamed for this... *looks at Cennyd nervously...* OK... I am 15. Let me just make THAT clear. I read - a lot more than most people in my year, I read in primary school and was tons ahead of everyone else. My view is that - would you rather a child read loads and was word perfect, or got to learn the story via visual images that are much more easy to swallow? I agree, John, that it is good for children to read, I mean I enjoy it! But (big but!) I don't have a social life as I read to much! I think it's good that children like TV... I mean you watch the news (I guess)! Cartoons will one day grow into documentries and news programmes, so the children can learn more about the world! My sister (who is 9) reads, not as much as I do though. She enjoys watching Disney movies, and they inspired ME to learn more about classics, I was eager to learn more, and because the cartoon version of 'Hercules' was not totally true, it meant I was inspired to find out what WAS true! If the parent TELLS the child it was not true then the child can ask what was! > >> I would like to think of myself as an average parent. I do not >>plop my kids down in front of the TV. We 'kids' don't plonk ourselves in front of the TV! OK younger children do, but haven't you ever read a 'light relief' book to get away from 'heavy' moral type books? I know _I_ have. The 'Power Rangers' may be violent, but they show good vs. evil and are fun to watch. They don't teach kids violence, any more than TLHM does when 'Lendel unleases the wysra! We all imagine the scenes in the books (well I do and I know others who do!) so it's not that much different! >I just don't think that kids should be allowed >to watch television until the critical years of mental development have >passed. Oh? 'Mental developement'? Excuse me, but who said 'you never stop learning'? I'm not a psycologist but I was watching TV and reading at about 4 at least! TV is good to learn what is going on in other parts of the world, it's escapism, like books. I personally agree that kids watch too MUCH TV (MUCH being the oprative word) but there is no reason NOT to watch it! (I know some teenagers whose brains haven't seemed to got passed the 'critical years of mental developement' should THEY be banned from TV? >I can't imagine using the >licencsed product of an incredibly violent cartoon meant for 12-up aged kids >to encourage toilet training. Violent? OK I've SEEN BeastWars a few times... it's not THAT bad! I agree there should be an age limit or something, but, for example, it's good to know animals can be dangerous, get the point? > but I believe that READING >SHOULD COME FIRST...we shouldn't cheat the younger generation by encouraging >them to watch Power Rangers or the Disney Channel or anything else...we >should encourage children to READ, READ, READ...and watch television later. Oh come on! Both are entertainment sources, and are you REALLY going to make a child read the Illiad in full? The story would be cut down, grusome bits removed ect... so you'd get a 'disneyised' story to read! >>Depending >>on wether you talked to an indian or a white man they >>both had different views of the same truth when it came >>to Custer's laststand. >I'm sure they do - there is still only one truth to the story... Oh? So whose history are you going to believe? The more violent one because it seems more' real'? >Let me wrap this up bluntly - we should encourage our children and younger >generation to READ - we should never give them the crutch of animation that >is Disney until they are old enough to see it for the crutch that it is. >The truly bright and gifted people are readers, not watchers . Television, >not religion, is the opiate of the masses. Administered at a young age it >addicts, numbs and stupefies... Um... are you saying I'M stupid? I think not... I've watched TV for 15 years, I'm normal! Jess wrote - <> My idea EXACTLY! I like Disney AND reading... I don't like (15)s and (17)s ect... for some reason. I think it's up to THE CHILD what he wants to do with his/her life! >It is not evil in and of itself, but like >alcohol, there should be an age of consent. I won't say anymore, 'cause I >obviously feel VERY strongly about this... > If you want to reply to MY views 'mail me OFFLIST... I think people are getting rather tired of this conversation! Rainbow Unity! + Zhai'helleva! 'If you want the rainbow, you gotta put up with the rain' Dolly Parton ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 11:27:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Melanie Mouck To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: ^o^ just me blathering on Message-ID: <19980508182729.5568.rocketmail-+AT+-send1e.yahoomail.com> > Yeah! I can see it now!! A burglar breaks in and Van flattens him with a > levin bolt---without even waking up!!*ROFL* And it's not unprecedented; he > seems to react alot, especially just back from border duty (and isn't he > almost always?Just back, I mean). I'm just saying that I wouldn't kick him > out of bed for eating crackers...though he might kick me out; I tend to take > school books and food into my room and disappear for days at a time. Other > things Van (or anyone) would likely kick me out for: I occasionally snore > when I have a cold, I take all the blankets or else kick them to the floor, > I get up and walk around, I participate in conversation (which I never > remember), I hit people who try to interrupt my sleep with whatever limb's > nearest (I've bruised with kicks and blackened an eye with fists{but she > deserved it! she was telling me stuff while I dreamt, so I'm told, and > whatever it was made me freak out}), I act semi-awake an hour before I'm > even close, and no one belts out bawdy ballads in their sleep quite like > me!! (Boy, did I ever surprise my cabin-mates at camp one summer!!) > Oh, yes, my best friend told me today that I am apparently not happy with > just taking up the comfy side of the bed and about half of the rest, I want > it ~all~. I've apparently rolled right on top of her a few times when she > sleeps over. She says it's good training in case she has a restless sleeper > for a husband. > And I ~do~ realise that Van is shaych and as such not interested in a > female like me. Anyone who points this out will be reminded that Van is also > a fictional character and as such not likely to end up in my bed at anytime. > I'd also say that if some strange twist in the fabric of reality caused such > circumstances I would not be unhappy, but I'd also behave. I have a > king-size, and I'd share, but no way am I moving to the floor. Not with four > animals in the house who love laying on sleeping bodies, one of whom is > bigger than me!! > > You probably could have done without the details on my sleeping habits, > but the nature of my subject line leads me to believe that I gave sufficient > warning. > > Heyla. Finally, someone who agrees with me!Zhai'helleva, Melanie > == Reality is only for those with no imagination. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free -+AT+-yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 11:32:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Melanie Mouck To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Braid:Newbies,Elspeth, apologies, JohnE.Morris Message-ID: <19980508183215.24373.rocketmail-+AT+-send1a.yahoomail.com> ---John E Morris wrote: > > > > TV. I make sure that > >when they do view it, it is appropriate for them, no > >violence, sex, drugs or bad language. > > Heyla. To whoever wrote this, your kids must not be able to watch much. About the only thing left that *doesn't* deal with violence,sex,drugs,and/or swearing is Teletubbies, and they're being blasted about not being 'educational' enough. Besides, in today's world, kids can't learn fast enough about the damaging effects that all four can have.Zhai'helleva, Melanie == Reality is only for those with no imagination. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free -+AT+-yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 12:11:21 PDT From: "Raven Darkblade" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Disney Message-ID: <19980508191124.9792.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> <> Look, we're all entitled to our respective opinions, but the above and what followed it were just insults for no good reason on a list that is supposed to be friendly and entertaining. Whether or not there are grammatical errors in someone's email has no bearing on the message you were commenting on. I don't mind discussing whether or not Disney and other such companies are a good thing, but I *do* mind such an obvious attitude of superiority. I don't know what your "point" was, but I think it's better kept off of this list. <> It looks like what you're doing here is generalizing. "All people who enjoy Disney are intellectually inferior because one cannot enjoy Disney movies and enjoy reading." And that is neither correct nor fair. If you could read all by yourself at age three, good for you, but that doesn't mean all children are able to, and just because they aren't doesn't mean that letting them watch movies will keep them from becoming people who like to read. <> I haven't met most of the children in this world, so I can't affirm or refute this statement--but I'd like to know how you drew the conclusion. <> That's an invitation to make reading a chore for a child: "You can't watch a movie until you can recite this book for me." I realize that isn't what you meant, but you certainly sounded that way. I personally do not think Disney movies "numb" the intellect. <> When was *that* ever said? But really, it seems to me that your attitude is an uberintellectual "television and movies rot the brain" one, without any statements as to *why* they supposedly "numb the intellect." <> Yes, but nobody on this list has suggested anything remotely like that. What are you relating it to in this argument? <> Nobody has said anything of the sort, except to ask if you had children. I don't think your degrees have much of a bearing on this argument, either--your intelligence is not the issue. << to go into T.V. production, but I believe that READING SHOULD COME FIRST...we shouldn't cheat the younger generation by encouraging them to watch Power Rangers or the Disney Channel or anything else...we should encourage children to READ, READ, READ...and watch television later.>> I do not have children. I have not helped raise any children. But it seems to me that the very intelligent people I know, including my brother and myself, who were not restricted from TV and movies when we were children, have turned out none the worse for the experience. There is no reason that books or TV should be mutually exclusive--a child can read without having TV and movies excised completely from his or her life. <> Obviously. You apparently feel so strongly about it that you are making overexaggerated statements such as "the crutch of animation." Animation is only a crutch if a person is never shown the truth. And the truth is not hidden. I own copies of Alice's Adventures in Wonderland and Through the Looking-Glass, All The Mowgli Stories, and The One Hundred and One Dalmations. They are not hidden by Disney's movies, and can be found by any who wants to find them, and a person who enjoyed the Disney movies will be willing to read the books because they know they liked the idea behind both. The story of Pocahontas is told in millions of grade-school history classes, and Greek mythology is both taught and written in books that are available to children and everyone else. I see that you do, as you have said, feel very strongly about this, but I see no basis for your argument that movies are bad for developing minds. I apologize to the list for what's happened to what should have remained a friendly debate. It seems to have gotten out of hand. Raven Darkblade John E Morris ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 12:46:50 MST From: "Heather Persellin" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Braid:Newbies,Elspeth, apologies, JohnE.Morris Message-ID: <19980508194650.13227.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> I would like to reply to the message sent by John E. Morris I completley agree with him!!! My parents started me reading when I was four, and now at 15 and 1/2, I read about 2-4 Lackey - length books a week. When I have children I will start them reading as young as possiable. If our entire world will one day be computerized, then people will have to know how to read just to communicate! Heather Persellin ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 15:27:35 -0400 From: "Brian Bennett" To: Subject: Re: welcome/histories/obmisty Message-ID: <19980508195527.AAA9076-+AT+-daisy> Jason Stoke aka Kal'enedral Kalen said >I don't know if there are any oldies apart from Ken still on > the list, I hope so as I'd love to catch up with what has been > happening to people. I'm not as much of an oldie as you or Ken but I have been here a while. Welcome back to the list. The biggest thing is probably the friendship ring thread that got a little out of hand. Many people had posts that were so fluffy that it looked like the Magewars. (Yes, I do know what OIB means.) I'll tell you more about the friendship ring privately if you haven't had a chance to look at the archives. Just send me an email and let me know. Concerning the history thread-- Histories always seem to be colored by certain political views of the day. For example, Hitler rewrote history about the Jewish people to support his political agenda. In the U.S. history has been rewritten by some people to support slavery and to justify taking land from Native Americans. Probably Greek and Roman histories were written to be favorable to the prevailing political view of that day. Arthurian legend was also probably written to make royalty look good. What I'm getting at is that none of us can say for certain what the true story was unless we were there when it was first published. Sure there are old manuscripts but they are copies. Who's to say that they haven't been doctored over the years. Now some Obmisty. If you were Misty how much technology would you introduce into Velgarth? Would you keep things forever at the current level or would you allow the characters to develop; gunpowder, cannons, rifles, electricity, flying machines? Personally, I would allow very slow growth. What does everyone else think? ShadowWolf, God of Stupid Chess Moves Founder of OOPS, Knight of Fluff bonded with Wesak and Waszzy "The wonderful thing about Tiggers is I'm the only one!" --Tigger-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 16:55:24 -0400 From: Katie To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Braid:JohnE.Morris/obMisty Message-ID: <3553713C.4A1A-+AT+-snet.net> I would like to say right now that I am 15 and have been reading since I was five. I agree that Disney has made some mistakes, but considering their movies to be the recourse of the inept is a little much. I have six little cousins, two of whom are four, and their parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, and I have been reading to them since the day they came home from the hospital. All it's done is make them learn more, and become interested in books. But they also watch Power Rangers, and other kids programming. They watch a lot of kids programming. But it hasn't affected them any. I am around them almost day in and day out, I have taken care of them for days at a time, and they are intelligent, almost more than some of the kids that I go to school with. Disney hasn't harmed them. All that has "harmed" them has been not being pushed to learn to read. I never wanted to learn to read either, but when I did, I never stopped. Because of my slower pace, I had to catch up, and can now read one 100-page length book (at least) a day. Pushing children to do something only makes them become stubborn. Making them learn to read just makes them mad at you. Maybe (this is only a suggestion) you should spend some time around average kids before you make generalizations. And that bit about the grammatical mistakes was a low blow. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Now, for an obMisty. In MProm, Moonsong told Savil that Van had lifebonded to Stef, and he made a cryptic remark about Stef being Lendel reincarnated. I was wondering if Stef ever figured out that he was Lendel reincarnate. I think Van did, in the end of MPrice. ShadowWolf- I think that I would allow technology to develop slowly, because the magic sometimes takes the place of technology, and the magic is sometimes better for the environment. You have to balence the scales between magic and technology, without letting the society become dependant on either. Just look what happened to the Empire. Katie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 18:14:50 -0300 From: Eleonora Scoseria To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: MIST: the ongoing debate (was Re: Disney) Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980508181450.007f8890-+AT+-multi.com.uy> Greetings, I'd like to remind everyone that this is a "no one true way forum", that different and sometimes opposite ideas are expected to be respected, and that while polite disagreement is welcome, discourteous bahavior is not. Therefore, I'd like to thank all those of you who have remained true to that attitude, and ask any of you who feel they might need to express their opinion so strongly that it might be construed as a flame and escalate matters on the list, to please take such posts off list. There is no reason why we cannot continue to discuss the "Disney" issue as long as we all remember that "there is no one true way" and we should give others the respect we expect to be accorded and that they deserve. WTTW, Ele Councilor of Mist ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 15:27:32 From: dprono-+AT+-planet.eon.net To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Technology, TV Message-ID: <3.0.3.16.19980508152732.111f9fb2-+AT+-planet.eon.net> Heyla! >Now some Obmisty. If you were Misty how much technology would you >introduce into Velgarth? If I was Misty, I dont think that I would introduce all that much technology... for the Herald's and Companion's sake. Look what happened to the horse in our society. If things were allowed to develop as far as they have here, dont you think that Companions would become obsolete, and then, because Valdemar is so dependant of Herald's Justice, the society may collapse or get run over by it's more technologically advanced neighbours? When a car (If things EVER got that far!) can go 100 km/h, why do you need a Companion? They become more of a hinderance than a help. Courtious A Breif ^ Word on the TV issue: ;P I learned to read at the same age as the 'averege' kid. (If there is such a creature) I watched TV like an addict, partially because I used to be extreamly shy, and so wouldn't phone up my friends to ask them to go sometwhere with me, and I didn't make friends very easily, either. But even though I watched many hours of TV per day, my parents would read to me. They gave me a love of reading, and it was excrutiatingly (sp?) torturous to have to wait until bed time to hear what happened next to Bilbo or whomever. That was what encouraged to start reading in the firt place - things were going too slow!! Now, I still love TV. Heck, I wanna eventually get into ANIMATION! But I am still an avid reader. It's my belief that TV and reading can co-exist in 'harmony' , as long as both are allowed their creative liscence and are not labled one way or the other. As for kids, well, IF I have kids (which I devoutly hope NOT to) I wont restrict TV time too much. But like my parents did for me, I will certainly read to them, and give them the love of reading that way. ;P Hey, it worked for me, and it's working for my little bro, so I dont see why not! :) As for the Disney versions, while I DONT agree with the bastardization of certain stories, do you really want a six year old watching the origonal Sleeping Beauty? Yvonne Shadowshape, bonded to Chiti, Chosen by Korla Goddess of Kelpies, Selkies, and the other Water-Borne Knight of Fluff Bearer of the Enchanted Bucket (tm) *&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&*&* The Nerids pluck their lyres Where the green translucncy beats And with motionless eyes at gaze Make minstrily in the streets -Walter de la Mare, Sunk Lyoness ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 21:03:40 -0400 From: Greg Wooledge To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Braid (computers and literacy, Valdemar technology) Message-ID: <19980508210340.29308-+AT+-phoenix.local> Heather Persellin (mrs_b_davison-+AT+-hotmail.com) wrote: > When I have children I will start them reading as young as > possiable. If our entire world will one day be computerized, then people > will have to know how to read just to communicate! Not necessarily. Right now, computers still use predominantly textual interfaces, with a few graphics thrown in in most cases. However, electronic voice recognition is becoming a lot more common; eventually personal computers will be predominantly voice-driven, with keyboards only as auxiliary input devices. After that they'll probably evolve into something we can't even dream of right now. Brian Bennett (brianben-+AT+-worldnet.att.net) wrote: > Now some Obmisty. If you were Misty how much technology would you > introduce into Velgarth? Would you keep things forever at the current > level or would you allow the characters to develop; gunpowder, cannons, > rifles, electricity, flying machines? In the Storms trilogy she shows us some technological developments in Valdemar (they're building a prototype steam engine). It seems that they're rather close to an industrial revolution. I'm not sure how the presence of two different types of magic, along with science, will influence their development -- but I'm sure it will be fun to read about. ;-) -- "Daddy, why do those people have to | Greg Wooledge use Microsoft Windows?" | wooledge-+AT+-kellnet.com "Don't stare, son; it's not polite." | http://www.kellnet.com/wooledge/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 08:13:36 +0700 From: Femmy Syahrani To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Braid: TV Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980509081336.0069907c-+AT+-mail.melsa.net.id> Hi all, Just wanted to add to the usefulness of TV. To learn other languages! I've watched TV since I was a child and I learned English from TV. Granted, I read a lot too, and through it I became more familiar with things like grammar and spellings, but for pronounciation, I got it all from TV. FWIW Femmy ICQ# 12094575 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 23:37:19 -0300 From: "Nelson Greenslade" To: "Misty" Subject: the law of Misty Message-ID: <01bd7af3$6351f8c0$LocalHost-+AT+-epzfbrwg> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_04C8_01BD7ADA.3E04C0C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable OK, folks, here's the Laws of Misty. View them as the Holy Writ of = dismiss them as malarky, they apply to this list, and this was an = opportune time as any to post 'em, seeing how I just found them = concisely articulated in one of her books a minute ago. You will find these rules apply to nearly every protaganist-type = Misty's ever penned. First Commandment: There ain't no such thing as 'one true way,' and the way you find is = only good for you, not anybody else, because your interpretation of what = you see and feel and understand as the truth is never going to be the = same as anyone else's. Second Commandment: The only answers worth having are ones you find for yourself. Third Commandment: Leave the world better than you found it. Fourth Commandment: If it isn't true, going to do some good, or spread a little love around, = don't say it, do it or think it. Fifth Commandment: There are only three things worth living for; love in all it's = manifestations, freedom, and the chance to keep humanity going a little = while longer. They're the same things wprth dying for. And if you aren't = willing to die for the things worth living for, you might as well turn = in your membership in the human race. =20 Agree or don't, but respect the Laws and try to be nice to your = fellow listees. BTW, anyone who thinks this is a load of bovine excrement, check out = Burning Water, pages 183 and 184, and then welcome me to the world of = textevd. Elsa Dame of the Knighthood of the True Fiancee Member of M.I.T.H. and the VFC Devotee of Ryoga and Danilo Sephiroth Otaku friend of Dragons and Libra born in the year of the french poodle! "Le arf! Le arf arf!" ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^ Duct tape is like the Force; it has a light side, a dark side, and it = holds the universe together. ------=_NextPart_000_04C8_01BD7ADA.3E04C0C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
OK, folks, here's the Laws of Misty. View them as the Holy Writ of = dismiss=20 them as malarky, they apply to this list, and this was an opportune time = as any=20 to post 'em, seeing how I just found them concisely articulated in one = of her=20 books a minute ago.
   You will find these rules apply to nearly every=20 protaganist-type Misty's ever penned.
First Commandment:
There ain't no such thing as 'one true = way,'=20 and the way you find is only good for you, not anybody else, because = your=20 interpretation of what you see and feel and understand as the truth = is never=20 going to be the same as anyone else's.
Second Commandment:
The only answers worth having are ones you find for=20 yourself.
Third Commandment:
Leave the world better than you found it.
Fourth Commandment:
If it isn't true, going to do some good, or spread a = little love=20 around, don't say it, do it or think it.
Fifth Commandment:
There are only three things worth living for; love in = all=20 it's manifestations, freedom, and the chance to keep humanity going = a little=20 while longer. They're the same things wprth dying for. And if you aren't = willing=20 to die for the things worth living for, you might as well turn in your=20 membership in the human race.
  
   Agree or don't, but = respect the Laws=20 and try to be nice to your fellow listees.
   BTW, anyone who thinks this is a load of = bovine=20 excrement, check out Burning Water, pages 183 and 184, and then welcome = me to=20 the world of textevd.
 
Elsa
Dame of the Knighthood of the True=20 Fiancee 
Member of M.I.T.H. and the VFC
Devotee of Ryoga and Danilo
Sephiroth Otaku
friend of Dragons
and Libra born in the year of the french poodle!
"Le arf! Le arf arf!"
^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^
Duct tape is like the Force; it has a light side, a dark side, and = it holds=20 the universe together.
------=_NextPart_000_04C8_01BD7ADA.3E04C0C0-- ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1581 **********************************