MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1595

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Religion/sexuality/opinions/beliefs-this is a long one, folks!
	by Jehanneton <lisa.bricknell-+AT+-bigpond.com>
  2) Another newbie, and a question :>
	by "Kakyou the Dreamer" <kakyou_k-+AT+-hotmail.com>
  3) Re: Religion/sexuality/opinions/beliefs.
	by "Mark Severson" <markttz-+AT+-eoni.com>
  4) The ten commandments
	by "Nelson Greenslade" <grenslde-+AT+-nbnet.nb.ca>
  5) Re: Another newbie, and a question :>
	by ShadowWing Kalenarick <dsmith-+AT+-st6000.sct.edu>
  6) the recent debate
	by "marty l. adkins" <adkinslawfirm-+AT+-mindspring.com>
  7) Questions..
	by Rainsong Blademeet <khil-+AT+-iland.net>
  8) Explanation
	by "Khera Bastis" <shadowfire69-+AT+-hotmail.com>
  9) Braid: Misty Game/issues/Owlflight/Jeopardy
	by Cliff Keller <cjak-+AT+-sullybuttes.net>
 10) Re: Questions..
	by troll-+AT+-netcomuk.co.uk
 11) MIST:  Re: Questions..
	by Kenneth Allen Hyde <kenny-+AT+-UDel.Edu>
 12) Re: Another newbie, and a question :>
	by Valdemar Administration <valdemar-+AT+-falkor.talker.com>
 13) Re: Oral Tradition, etc.
	by Rainbow <cf-+AT+-leightons.demon.co.uk>
 14) Sexuality/done to death/appropriate to list
	by "Kal'enedral Kalen [OIB]" <95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk>
 15) Re: Braid: Misty Game/issues/Owlflight/Jeopardy
	by Darvoso <darvoso-+AT+-fortwayne.infi.net>
 16) Re: Different schools of magic
	by Elizabeth Hoffman <E.G.Hoffman-+AT+-soton.ac.uk>
 17) Re: Sexuality/done to death/appropriate to list
	by "Kristjan Wager" <kristjanwager-+AT+-hotmail.com>
 18) MIST: Re: Questions..
	by Eleonora Scoseria <eleonora-+AT+-multi.com.uy>
 19) Oh dear, I sense I may have started a war...
	by "Kakyou the Dreamer" <kakyou_k-+AT+-hotmail.com>
 20) braid <gasp>
	by Eleonora Scoseria <eleonora-+AT+-multi.com.uy>
 21) Reincarnation
	by "Uther Pendragon" <utherpen-+AT+-mindspring.com>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 10:26:43 +1000
From: Jehanneton <lisa.bricknell-+AT+-bigpond.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Religion/sexuality/opinions/beliefs-this is a long one, folks!
Message-ID: <3564C642.5F2901DA-+AT+-bigpond.com>

Hi everyone!  I haven't posted in a while (been busy) but I wanted to add my .02
worth to this subject.

I think that we all seem to be agreed on the issue of everyone's right to a
belief/way of life (apart from the anonymous poster who could only see fit to
provide two words).  From the discussions here, I  think that we are rather well
adjusted, rational, thoughtful people.  I think what we need to consider, though,
is where we're coming from when we say "everyone has a right to their own way of
life".  I am a hetero female in a long term, stable (well, mostly <grin>),
monogamous relationship.  I attended a Catholic school although I am not Catholic
myself.  As I was growing up, homosexuality was not discussed- it was not even
considered- and so I grew up totally ignorant of the existence of same sex
relationships. I _was_, however, brought up to be non-discriminatory.  When I was
confronted with homosexuality in my last years of High School I had a rather
tough decision to make.  Would I ostracize two of my friends (as ordered by the
Nun Headmistress of my school) or support them despite all the trouble it could
cause? (I was a rather good girl, a conformer, at school).  At this time I
realised that my friends were made up of so many different facets- it was what
they did, what they thought, what they said, what they enjoyed doing, how they
felt about me, what we enjoyed doing together as well as their sexuality that
made them who they were.  Yes, their sexuality was an important part of them, but
it was not the _only_ thing that made them themselves.

What I'm trying to get at is that we need to accept people.  Yes.  We need to
acknowledge that everyone has a right to their own choices and to be who they
are.  But we also need to think, we rational, thoughtful people, about going
beyond tolerance.  Tolerance implies that even though someone is wrong you will
_allow_ them to behave as they wish.  It implies you are doing them some kind of
favour.  Even though our religions might teach that homosexuality is a sin we
should not, as rational, thinking people, accept those teachings blindly.  We
should question- even if it makes us feel uncomfortable.  If, after honestly
questioning, you can still say that you believe homosexuality to be damning, then
your belief is one that can and should be accepted by others (although others may
not necessarily concur).  Questioning the teachings of your faith is not and
cannot be wrong (at least I think so).  We have been questioning the beliefs of
our faith for as long as faith has been around. Church teachings, while
remarkably consistent in some ways, have been changing and evolving.  I hope,
that in years to come, homosexuality will be considered as everyday as women in
professional occupations or as men providing loving care to children.  I don't
advocate this change in culture occurring by force or confrontation.  I do
advocate for us using the natural intelligence evolution or God or who/whatever
gave us and thinking about our beliefs and actions.

<steps down off soapbox>

Thanks to all who made it to the bottom of this rather long post!

Jehanneton <blushing and hoping she's made a point without offending anyone>


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 17:38:21 PDT
From: "Kakyou the Dreamer" <kakyou_k-+AT+-hotmail.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Another newbie, and a question :>
Message-ID: <19980522003821.28884.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com>


Hello all :>

Yeh, yet another newbie *Kakyou hides from the impending dousing of 
water* :>

I was just wondering...is there any kind of Valdemar MU*, e-game, shared 
story, or what-have-you a-lurking out there? And if so, could some kind 
soul give me directions? :>

Thanks :>

Kakyou




______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 17:58:11 -0500
From: "Mark Severson" <markttz-+AT+-eoni.com>
To: <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Religion/sexuality/opinions/beliefs.
Message-ID: <003e01bd850b$ef104fc0$236cb4cd-+AT+-markttz.eonet.com>


Enough is enough people!

  No matter which side of the fence you are on you stand about as much
chance of changing the other persons minds as a snowball in hell.
  What you WILL succeed in doing is driving more people from the list.
I've been a subscriber to this list for a little under two years.  I've made
my feeling known on the subject in the past and see no reason to restate
them for the fourth or fifth time.  (Yes that is roughly how many times this
subject has come up, per my recollections.)
  If you want to debate the pros and cons of homosexuality I am sure that
there are several newsgroups you could subscribe to where it would be more
appropriate.
  We've already had one person "rise" to the level of a two word comentary.
I am requesting that this subject be shelved and that we all move on to more
pleasent things.  As it is on my last download I found 22 messages - 2 worth
worth reading, the rest were the continuation of the flogging of a "dead
dog", which as soon as I opened them (if the subject did not state it
outright) went right to the round file.
   I thought this was the Misty list, not the sexual oritenation list.

End of my diatribe.

Mark the Tax Zombie



------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 22:43:05 -0300
From: "Nelson Greenslade" <grenslde-+AT+-nbnet.nb.ca>
To: "Misty" <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: The ten commandments
Message-ID: <01bd8522$f6f3d880$LocalHost-+AT+-epzfbrwg>

I already got this on another list, and I'll make the same comments I did
there.

<<Thou shalt include a clear and specific subject line.>>
   Erk!
<<Thou shalt edit any quoted text down to the minimum thou needest.>>
   I try. (I did down below!)
<<Thou shalt read thine own message thrice before thou sendest it.>>
   I should, but I don't have time, usually.
<<Thou shalt ponder how thy recipient might react to thy message.>>
   I do. I've written letters carefully calculated to aggravate certain
people, but mostly I try to remain light-hearted and make people laugh, or
if I'm serious, make them think.
<<Thou shalt check thy spelling and thy grammar.>>
   10-4, but I miss things...
<<Thou shalt not curse, flame, spam or USE ALL CAPS.>>
    Oops.
<<Thou shalt not forward any chain letters.>>
   Not even to those who ask me to?
<<Thou shalt not use email for any illegal or unenthical purpose.>>
   Don't worry.
<<Thou shalt not rely on the privacy of email, especially from work.>>
   Well that's just common sense.
<<When in doubt, save thy message overnight and reread it in the light of
dawn.>>
    Hmmmm...could be a good idea...
<<That which thou findest hateful to receive, sendest thou not unto
others.>>
    Ah! The old "do unto others" clause! Well, I try.

<<I'm trying to understand why you brought up this issue. Is it to point out
that Muslims were evil because they killed so many people for defending
Islam, or to point out that other people have done evil towards Muslims for
defending Christianity so I shouldn't tell people "it's a sin to do
something" when my own people is killed because of the same reason? (I'm
rambling, I know).>>
   I personally believe that trying to force your beliefs on another culture
is wrong, and I wish the Crusades hadn't happened. The clink of the
slithering scales of evil underlie the most enlightened call to Holy War.
Holy War; that's a laugh. For a religion that preaches peace, we Christians
sure spilled a lot of blood trying to make others "see the light" when all
they were doing was going about their business, worshipping the powers to be
in the way that power meant them to.
   The Crusades was a war started by bored young nobles who wanted something
to fight about and figured they could pass this off as an honorable cause.
The fact that there was more than one Crusade is sad and the whole thing
makes me very cynical about my religion, which is why I rarely go to Church,
and interpret the Bible in my own way.
   But that's just me.

  Rochelle, across the river from me is the city with the highest % of same
sex orientated people in the province. not the highest number, there are
more in the capitol, however there are nearly 50x the population there. I
don't want to change anyoe's sexuality, I don't want to change their
religion, and I personally have no stake in altering their ideals. I have
friends that aren't hetero and it doesn't bother me. They are sometimes
discriminated against for it and I'm there to support them, just as I would
be if anything else that was fundamentally part of them were being used as
fodder to hurt them.
  That's another thing: your sexuality isn't something you have to
broadcast, and I'm not saying it makes a ~huge~ difference on your
personality, but it is an important part of you. I mean, if you are
slandered for who you prefer as bad partners, wouldn't you maybe be less
likely to do something similar to others?





------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 22:27:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: ShadowWing Kalenarick <dsmith-+AT+-st6000.sct.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Another newbie, and a question :>
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.96.980521222359.50572A-100000-+AT+-st6000.sct.edu>

On Fri, 22 May 1998, Kakyou the Dreamer wrote:

> 
> I was just wondering...is there any kind of Valdemar MU*, e-game, shared 
> story, or what-have-you a-lurking out there? And if so, could some kind 
> soul give me directions? :>
> 
> Thanks :>
> 
> Kakyou
> 


I must agree with Kakyou.  I am very interested in any MU*'s that are
Valdemar based.  I would greatly appreciate it if anyone that has been
granted this oh so valuable information would be so generous as to pass
this wisdom on to those not so privileged.

Thank you,   :)

ShadowWing Kalenarick
   Nightstalker and Wisdom Hunter



David K. Smith
dsmith-+AT+-spsu.edu


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 23:16:25 -0400
From: "marty l. adkins" <adkinslawfirm-+AT+-mindspring.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: the recent debate
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980521231625.0068adfc-+AT+-pop.mindspring.com>

There've been a great many comments on this topic, some well-reasoned,
others more emotionally motivated.  One good side effect has been to liven
up the list a good deal.  I've been very impressed that, by and large,
while claiming the right to their own opinions/beliefs, listsibs have been
respectful of others' [beliefs].  

It seems to me, we're getting too bogged down in generalities and absolutes
here.  It's too easy to say "all" this and "every" that.  Not only are
these words red flags on standardized [computer-graded] tests, they're also
pretty dangerous in real life.  Rather than looking at one fact in
isolation, consider the whole context.  Rather than worrying so much about
groups, concentrate on individuals.  Far more than someone's lifestyle
itself, I'm concerned about what they do with that lifestyle, the meaning
behind the event itself.  

In other words, are people reaching out to others, giving of themselves,
helping others?  Are they developing the wisdom to help when needed and
mind their own business when not needed?  There's a city called Sharveyn,
whose first law is the protection of children.  In _The Notebooks of
Lazarus Long_, Robert Heinlein [another controversial topic in himself]
said something to the effect that taking care of [women and] children is
the most important thing to survival; anything else is superfluous.

If people are finding pleasure in hurting others, definitely discriminate
against people like that.  As for the rest, give them non-allergenic
chocolate sheep.  Or, as José Marti says, "cultivate the white rose [of
peace]."--Jerrie

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 22:24:03 -0500
From: Rainsong Blademeet <khil-+AT+-iland.net>
To: "mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk" <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: Questions..
Message-ID: <3564EFD3.C3927790-+AT+-iland.net>

Greetings

*Carefully avoiding the water puddles on the floor, Rainsong takes her
stand on the soap box, generously provided by some thoughtful being*

I've seen some questions about MU*'s on the list and I am actually
surprised why no one has ever started a thing like this... (If there is
a MU* of sorts out there I'd like to know too please!! :))
So has anyone even thought about starting one up or asked Misty, or
whoever in charge, to start one? I know some of MUD's myself, building
and such... and was wondering if its possible to maybe start one. I
would be more then happy to spend some time making it, if someone would
be interested and if we are allowed to. If anyone knows more of how to
get the "rights" could they please email me? Thank you!

*Stumbles off the box and settles down on her orchid patch. Rainsong
looks at all the animals and sighs... Sure hope mine will come along
soon....*

Until our paths cross again,

Rainsong Blademeet
--
        _\\|//_ . o O (Hello? anyone there?)
        /(o o)\
-=-=-oOOo-(_)-oOOo-=-=-



------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 20:56:07 PDT
From: "Khera Bastis" <shadowfire69-+AT+-hotmail.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Explanation
Message-ID: <19980522035607.26705.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com>

::another image of Khera Bastis appears in front of you, this time 
without the help of an enchanted scroll.::

I must apologize, me computer is evil. That message was supposed to be 
saved, not sent, I wasn't finished with it yet. I pretty much have free 
reign on the research paper, I'm personally planning on taking the 
viewpoint (right word?) on her works. Possibly on the somewhat 
controversial subjects (homosexuality, etc.) I need facts about her 
writing, such as why she decided to write such an open-minded viewpoint 
on these subjects. Also, opinions and the like would be nice to have as 
well. Sorry about the confusion (I fully intend to punish my computer, I 
don't know how, but I do).
Chocolate-covered strawberry sheep to all (fat-free and really healthy 
:)

Zha'hai'allev'a,
Khera Bastis

Member of the Order of Unsung Heroes
(looking for more titles :P)

"If it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it 
isn't, it ain't. That's logic!"
          ~Tweedledee

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 23:08:38 -0500
From: Cliff Keller <cjak-+AT+-sullybuttes.net>
To: "'Misty Mailing List'" <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: Braid: Misty Game/issues/Owlflight/Jeopardy
Message-ID: <01BD850D.78005A40-+AT+-cjak-0003>


Heyla all:

Well now that the "old dog" is dead, I think I'll move
on to answering a few obmistyies(?).  I didn't want any
of them to be forgotten.  By the way (not a flame) this debate
thing is kinda like the TV thing. We Are Not Going To Agree!
Right!!
Anyway considering I like to post these really long
braids :) I am going to do it again. ;->
**************************************************
Kakyou wrote:
> I was just wondering...is there any kind of Valdemar MU*, e-game, shared 
>story, or what-have-you a-lurking out there? And if so, could some kind 
>soul give me directions? :>
    As far as I know there isn't and won't be.
Misty has her things copyrighted and from what 
I understand would rather keep her world from being 
changed by others.  Someone posted a reason for
all of this awhile ago. (can't remember who, where are you:))
**************************************************************
Pam, who goes by Map wrote:
<snip>
>Obmisty -- sometimes I wonder if she responds too much to the present->day
>issues, and seems to feel obligated to include certain social issues --
>whether it's other races or different sexual types, 
 I have noticed this in Misty's work and in a few others as
well.  And while I don't have a reason as to why, I would
think that it would be rather hard to not write a story in your own
world and not have it colored by your beliefs. While (as John
I think once said) historians try not to be bias to what they
write, I do not think that fantasy would and/or should
have the same restrictions.
*****************************************************************
Stormdancer wrote:
>     BTW- Does anyone know if Owlflight is going to be the start of 
>a new series? 
     I think I have heard of a second book called Owlsight
to come out next but I don't know if it will be a trilogy
like so many of Misty's works. (anybody who knows
correct me if I am wrong)
*********************************************************************
I think that covers quite a few. Let me know if
I missed anything.
***************************************************************
O.K. now for my obmisty:
Let's play Jeopardy ;->
Here is the answer: Master Tam
Find out who he is and make your answer in the
form of a question.  Oh and tell us what book or
books this person is found.  He is a Misty character.
da-da-dunt-dunt-DUNT-D-DUNT-Dunt-dunt-dunt
Come on it's fun!  You know you want to play!!!!!  :)
******************************************************************
I would add a bit of fluff here but I'm all tapped
out.  To busy throwing a Ball on the Melaine Rawn List :)
*************************************************************


Wind to thy Wings
Cailet Flameflower
~Keeper of the Garden~
Shimmer the Worba

     

  







------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 05:08:24 +0100 (BST)
From: troll-+AT+-netcomuk.co.uk
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Questions..
Message-ID: <199852251113622355-+AT+-netcomuk.co.uk>

On 05/22/98 05:04:11 Rainsong Blademeet wrote:
>
>Greetings
>I've seen some questions about MU*'s on the list and I am actually
>surprised why no one has ever started a thing like this... (If there is
>a MU* of sorts out there I'd like to know too please!! :))
>So has anyone even thought about starting one up or asked Misty, or
>whoever in charge, to start one?

Not sure if this is in the NewbieFest, but it has come up a time or
three before on the list. As far as I understand it(I was one of the
folk who asked, a couple of years ago)Misty has decreed that no MU*s
or RPGs of any kind whatsoever are to be made set in Velgarth or using
Velgarth-based characters. I'm personally disappointed by this, but
apparently Misty has reiterated this more than once and won't change it.

That being said, there are at least two illicit Valdemar-based systems
(without Misty's approval)out there(one is a true MUD I think and the other
a MUSH)but I can't recall the addresses offhand. I think the owner of the
MUSH is subscribed to this list. More than that I know not.

*troll gets off his soapbox, mounts his huge black war sheep and
 rides back to his own mud, scattering chocolate sheep behind him*

Muranog Shadowbane
Troll Adept
Knight of Fluff
Sub-Implementor of KarnosMud(karnos.tradeweb.net 2000)
and his bondmate Sable, the giant black war sheep

(and no, I don't usually put my mud in my .sig, but I thought I'd
 give it a shameless plug since this thread was about muds ;) )



------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 00:14:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kenneth Allen Hyde <kenny-+AT+-UDel.Edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: MIST:  Re: Questions..
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.980522000601.20749F-100000-+AT+-copland.udel.edu>

On Fri, 22 May 1998, Rainsong Blademeet wrote:

> I've seen some questions about MU*'s on the list and I am actually
> surprised why no one has ever started a thing like this... (If there is
> a MU* of sorts out there I'd like to know too please!! :))

This is one of the things that is covered in the NewbieFest, sort of (it's
in the "done-to-death" topics section).  Basically, MUDs, MOOs, and other
similar venues end up being a copyright problem.  Misty has stated through
her lawyers that she has not authorized the creation of a Valdemar-based
MU* and that she has no intention of doing so in the near future.  She has
also made it clear that she will vigorously protect her copyrights and
prosecute anyone that she, or her representatives, catch running such a
MU*.  Which basically means that, if someone were to create such a thing,
anouncing it here on this list would be a total no-no (they would be
kicked from the list) and they would probably get so many flames from
Mel's friends and supporters that it would make their heads spin (I'm sure
that I'm not alone in being a fierce defender of our valiant
List-Mistress).  

On the other hand, there is nothing to prevent you from creating a
non-Misty-based MU* that has the same *flavor* as Misty.  Just stay away
from the characters and plot/story elements that are unique to her
writings (no Heralds or Companions, i.e.)  And if you were to create a
non-Misty-based MU*, there would be no reason that you could not announce
it on this list.  In fact, we have actually had a couple of these that
were created as spin-offs of this list. There is the Mage War list, and
the group that was born out of the Friendship Ring thing (whatever
happened to the ring, anyway?).  Not to mention the Ladies of the Pink
Wand and the Bower.

May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit,

Cennydd
Councilor of Mist

Kenneth Allen Hyde     |  No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife
Univ. of Delaware      |  between the shoulder blades will seriously
Dept. of Linguistics   |  cramp his style  -- Old Jhereg proverb
kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu         |  A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me

//www.ling.udel.edu/hyde/prof/ken.html



------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 05:17:21 +0000 (GMT)
From: Valdemar Administration <valdemar-+AT+-falkor.talker.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Another newbie, and a question :>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980522051430.7735C-100000-+AT+-falkor.talker.com>

I guess I should have replied to all instead of just to one (sorry to send
this to you twice Kakyou).  You can find a talker called valdemar at:

talker.com 2345

You're welcome to discuss any topic, but Misty is a popular one as many of
our population are familiar with her books.

Morianna
Valdemar Admin


On Fri, 22 May 1998, ShadowWing Kalenarick wrote:

> On Fri, 22 May 1998, Kakyou the Dreamer wrote:
> 
> > 
> > I was just wondering...is there any kind of Valdemar MU*, e-game, shared 
> > story, or what-have-you a-lurking out there? And if so, could some kind 
> > soul give me directions? :>
> > 
> > Thanks :>
> > 
> > Kakyou
> > 
> 
> 
> I must agree with Kakyou.  I am very interested in any MU*'s that are
> Valdemar based.  I would greatly appreciate it if anyone that has been
> granted this oh so valuable information would be so generous as to pass
> this wisdom on to those not so privileged.
> 
> Thank you,   :)
> 
> ShadowWing Kalenarick
>    Nightstalker and Wisdom Hunter
> 
> 
> 
> David K. Smith
> dsmith-+AT+-spsu.edu
> 


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 17:01:44 +0100
From: Rainbow <cf-+AT+-leightons.demon.co.uk>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Oral Tradition, etc.
Message-ID: <sOMJdDAo$EZ1IwZC-+AT+-leightons.demon.co.uk>

In message <01bd8476$521bc180$16109cd1-+AT+-default>, John E Morris
<JEATONM-+AT+-prodigy.net> writes
>>ObMisty:  How strong do you think the oral bardic tradition is in Valdemar?
>>I've been thinking that it doesn't seem to be as evident in Valdemar as it
>>is on Pern, where it's a Way of Life.  Valdemarans seem to be more
>>book-oriented.  Has anyone else noticed this?  I remember reading AotQ for
>>the first time and being surprised that Talia had access to an actual
>>'fiction' book, especially considering what the Holderkin are like.  I
>>wouldn't have expected them to allow space for such a frivolity in their
>>library.
>
I think that the Valdemaran's DO have strong oral traditions... I mean
they found out about REAL magic from the bardic songs about Van didn't
they?  I think that the 'history' isn't as 'strict' as in Pern tho'...
as it's going to be Leslac's version of Tarma and Kethry that people
remember, not what ACTUALLY happened...

*wince* sorry it's short...
<R><R><R><R><R><R><R><R><R><R><R><R><R><R><R><R><R><R><R><R><R><R><R><R>
Rainbow

Unity! + Zhai'helleva!

'If you want the rainbow, you gotta put up with the rain'

Dolly Parton

'I ain't flawed, I'm just a diamond cut in a unique way.'

Tristan

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 10:39:24 +0100
From: "Kal'enedral Kalen [OIB]" <95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Sexuality/done to death/appropriate to list
Message-ID: <2B99EA56696-+AT+-ghondr.mmu.ac.uk>

On   Fri, 22 May
 "Mark Severson" <markttz-+AT+-eoni.com> wrote:-

> Enough is enough people!
> 
>   No matter which side of the fence you are on you stand about as much
> chance of changing the other persons minds as a snowball in hell.
>   What you WILL succeed in doing is driving more people from the list.
> I've been a subscriber to this list for a little under two years.  I've made
> my feeling known on the subject in the past and see no reason to restate
> them for the fourth or fifth time.  (Yes that is roughly how many times this
> subject has come up, per my recollections.)
I've been a subscriber to this list on and off since 1995 in that 
time MANY subjects have come up more than four or five times. What 
you have to take into account is that new people are subscribing to 
this list all the time, what is old hat to us is new to them.I have 
been through the who would play who if a film were made subject at 
least 6 times. It doesn't make it boring it just means that other New 
people get to have their say.  

>   If you want to debate the pros and cons of homosexuality I am sure that
> there are several newsgroups you could subscribe to where it would be more
> appropriate.
How can it not be appropriate to this list?  Misty has seen fit to 
include well over a dozen gay and lesbian characters in her books as 
well as refs. to homophobia. e.g Withen and the Rethwellan court 
[When Van could not take Stef with him to get the agreement.]
>   We've already had one person "rise" to the level of a two word comentary.
Yes we have and as that was in reply to one of my posts I think I 
delt with it accordingly. 
> I am requesting that this subject be shelved and that we all move on to more
> pleasent things.  
If you want the subject to move on and something else to start, send 
a post on another topic and start a discussion on it!!!!!<look5
I have had emails off people saying how much they are enjoying the 
debate. Yes even off Femmy, who as many of you will have read has a 
different view on the subject than I do  
>    I thought this was the Misty list, not the sexual oritenation list.
See above!

*****************************************
"To be or not to be
that is the question"
Now the question I have is
"TO BE WHAT?????<look5
Jason Stokes [Fantasy Freak and All round Good Guy
95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk
uthro-+AT+-hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 04:54:31 -0500
From: Darvoso <darvoso-+AT+-fortwayne.infi.net>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Braid: Misty Game/issues/Owlflight/Jeopardy
Message-ID: <35654B56.D934076A-+AT+-fortwayne.infi.net>

> O.K. now for my obmisty:
> Let's play Jeopardy ;->
> Here is the answer: Master Tam
> Find out who he is and make your answer in the
> form of a question.  Oh and tell us what book or
> books this person is found.  He is a Misty character.
> da-da-dunt-dunt-DUNT-D-DUNT-Dunt-dunt-dunt
> Come on it's fun!  You know you want to play!!!!!  :)

Who is one of Natolias [sp?] teachers amongst the 'blues'. ;)

Books - Storm's Series. :)

Winternight, wondering if he gets to play daily double now?


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 12:56:20 +0100 ()
From: Elizabeth Hoffman <E.G.Hoffman-+AT+-soton.ac.uk>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Different schools of magic
Message-ID: <SIMEON.9805221220.A-+AT+-ct011.med.soton.ac.uk>

Going back to the focus stone discussion.  I keep getting the 
impression that there are at least two entirely different ways of 
doing magic in Valdemar.  One the grab a node / leyline / bit of 
personal magic and then just focus mentally and do whatever your 
trying for, sort of Hawkbrotherish.  Another that involves lots of 
ritual and focus stones, a little like Savil and her workroom or 
Kethry and her other planar spirits speak in White winds mage 
language type thing.  
What do you think?  Did Misty start off with the more ritualised 
version and then just add a more 'freeform' version with Vanyel?  Or 
am I seeing differences that don't exist?

Favourite Misty Book: Magics Price
Favourite Male Character: Karal
Fav female : Kerowyn
Fav Non human Character: Skandranon
Fav scene: Scene where Kerowyn meets Darkwind, the Gryphons and Need 
and ends up wailing about everything in her life coming back and 
talking in her head.
Fav non Valdemar book: Chrome circle

Bye
Liz

----------------------
Elizabeth Hoffman
E.G.Hoffman-+AT+-soton.ac.uk



------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 05:09:00 PDT
From: "Kristjan Wager" <kristjanwager-+AT+-hotmail.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Sexuality/done to death/appropriate to list
Message-ID: <19980522120901.23729.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com>

Hello everyone

While I can't relate to many of your viewpoints ( here in Denmark, 
homosexuality isn't really an issue, it just is for most people ), I 
have found the debate quiet interesting, and agrees with Jason Stoker's 
reply to Mark Severson's email on the matter about ending the debate. 

I do have one comment to the debate, it's about the use of the word sin. 
As far as I see it, something can only be a sin according to a religion, 
so for something to be a sin, that specific religion would be the one 
true way, which we all, I think, agree is not so, and therefor the word 
sin is unwise in this context. If someone has something to reply to this 
you can do it to my email Kristjanwager-+AT+-hotmail.com, but remember the 
time difference, so maybe there won't be a reply for a couple of days. 

I have noticed that not everyone signs their email, it would be nice to 
know what people, who writes to the list, are called, so couldn't you 
please sign your mails.

Sheep flavored danish to everyone.

Kris.

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 10:07:58 -0300
From: Eleonora Scoseria <eleonora-+AT+-multi.com.uy>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: MIST: Re: Questions..
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980522100758.007c1590-+AT+-multi.com.uy>

At 06:31 22/05/98 +0100, the Troll Adept wrote:

>That being said, there are at least two illicit Valdemar-based systems
>(without Misty's approval)out there(one is a true MUD I think and the other
>a MUSH)but I can't recall the addresses offhand. I think the owner of the
>MUSH is subscribed to this list. More than that I know not.

Please! Don't announce that kind of thing on the list. While noone here can
prevent others from starting their own illicit RPGs or MUDs or whatever,
what we can most strongly ask is that said games not be announced on the
list. I don't think anyone wants to get our wondrous listmistress Mel into
trouble, right?
So, please, remember, no mentions of MUSHs or MUDs or whatever. 
I am one of the people who wishes Misty had a diff outlook on RPing. But
she doesn't, and she deserves to be respected. If people choose not to
respect her, then this list is not the place to say so.

Thanks in advance,

Ele
Councilor of Mist



------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 06:59:23 PDT
From: "Kakyou the Dreamer" <kakyou_k-+AT+-hotmail.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Oh dear, I sense I may have started a war...
Message-ID: <19980522135923.11886.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com>


Hi..

Many, *many* apologies in advance, should my MU* question inadvertently 
start a war on the list...stupid newbie-ism, I guess

*wonders if this list uses 1000 lb. Thwapping carp as punishment..*

Terribly sorry..

Kakyou
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If "Fate" has already been decided, cannot the thing against it be done?
Cannot the thing to change it be done if already provided for "End"?

"Future" is one.
There is always only one.
But "absolutely" there is no being like the one, etc.
The person keeps living.
For "Future".                         
                                        ~X~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 11:37:55 -0300
From: Eleonora Scoseria <eleonora-+AT+-multi.com.uy>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: braid <gasp>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980522113755.007a7220-+AT+-multi.com.uy>

At 06:39 22/05/98 +0100, Morianna wrote:

>I guess I should have replied to all instead of just to one (sorry to send
>this to you twice Kakyou).  You can find a talker called valdemar at:
>
>talker.com 2345
>
>You're welcome to discuss any topic, but Misty is a popular one as many of
>our population are familiar with her books.

Sorry to post to the list twice instead of braiding in the first place
<sheeps>, but I wanted to say something about the announcement of illegal
RPGs ASAP. 

I think others have mentioned this, but for those with IRC access, there is
#k'valdemar on EFNet. While it is true that Misty is not usually the main
topic of conversation (cause there are a bunch of us who hang out there
regularly and therefore we discuss our lives as much as anything else),
Misty discussion is of course welcome, and you will all receive a friendly
welcome from other Misty fans =).

>On   Fri, 22 May
> "Mark Severson" <markttz-+AT+-eoni.com> wrote:-
>
>> Enough is enough people!
>> 
>>   No matter which side of the fence you are on you stand about as much
>> chance of changing the other persons minds as a snowball in hell.
>>   What you WILL succeed in doing is driving more people from the list.
>> I've been a subscriber to this list for a little under two years.  I've
made
>> my feeling known on the subject in the past and see no reason to restate
>> them for the fourth or fifth time.  (Yes that is roughly how many times
this
>> subject has come up, per my recollections.)

and Jason commented:

>I've been a subscriber to this list on and off since 1995 in that 
>time MANY subjects have come up more than four or five times. What 
>you have to take into account is that new people are subscribing to 
>this list all the time, what is old hat to us is new to them.I have 
>been through the who would play who if a film were made subject at 
>least 6 times. It doesn't make it boring it just means that other New 
>people get to have their say.  

Yes! exactly! what he said! While there is a list of done-to-death topics
on the Newbie Fest it is not meant to discourage newbies or oldbies for
that matter, from discussing those topics, but more as a warning that an
unwitting rehash of the topic will prolly not meet as enthusiastic a
response as the poster might hope =)
Cennydd has been trying to make a FAQ of what we have said in the past
about some of those subjects (i.e. herald reincarnation, etc.), so that
newbies can have an idea of what has been said before posting anew. [Is the
draft of that work in progress posted anywhere, Cen?]
But once more, the idea of that "FAQ" was so that the prior discussion
could provide a basis, and not as a deterrent to a new discussion of the
topic. And personally, I find it interesting to see how the approach to
some topics change (or not) over time. For example, if we had a copy of the
original movie cast (I asked Jaguar and she doesn't seem to have one,
unfortunately), it would be interesting to see the variations and the
similarities in the different casts the list has proposed =). 

Kris wrote:
>I do have one comment to the debate, it's about the use of the word sin. 
>As far as I see it, something can only be a sin according to a religion, 
>so for something to be a sin, that specific religion would be the one 
>true way, which we all, I think, agree is not so, and therefor the word 
>sin is unwise in this context.

Hmmmmm......interesting comment.....<ponders>...I'll prolly have something
to say on the matter, but not just now...
======

Elizabeth, our resident geneticist (is that the word?) wrote:

>Going back to the focus stone discussion.  I keep getting the 
>impression that there are at least two entirely different ways of 
>doing magic in Valdemar.  One the grab a node / leyline / bit of 
>personal magic and then just focus mentally and do whatever your 
>trying for, sort of Hawkbrotherish.  Another that involves lots of 
>ritual and focus stones, a little like Savil and her workroom or 
>Kethry and her other planar spirits speak in White winds mage 
>language type thing.  
>What do you think?  Did Misty start off with the more ritualised 
>version and then just add a more 'freeform' version with Vanyel?  Or 
>am I seeing differences that don't exist?


Hmmmmm...I tend to agree with you. There seems to be at least the
earthwitches or whatever they were called, who relied on ritual, and then
the more spontaneous shifting and handling of energies a la Hawkbrother.
However, Van himself used a focus stone, and seemed to need one in order to
achieve "bigger" magic with less effort, IIRC.
Question for Wiccans and those who practice some kind of magic....how
similar (or not) is the magic system in Velgarth to the magic Wiccans
practice?

Peace,

Ele
Councilor of Mist

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 13:23:43 +0000
From: "Uther Pendragon" <utherpen-+AT+-mindspring.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Reincarnation
Message-ID: <199805221724.NAA24323-+AT+-camel14.mindspring.com>

   I just did some research on the reincarnation issue.I found some 
texts to give credence to it. 
   In MPrice Van tells Steffan:
                 "...Most heralds have a couple of choices; the can 
go to the Havens, or come back..."
   In Storm Breaking (pg.383)Florian, talking about choices after 
death, says:"..I've made mine too, but I wasn't so picky. It should 
be obvious.." "..but don't tell any heralds..." 
   There's more after that too. As for the grove born..I don't think 
they're reincarnated. In Fury, Van tells Elspeth:
                 "...As companions go-when compared to, say, Sayvil, 
she is very, very young. No older than you.....she has no real human 
experience to base her decisions on..."
    To me, that would mean she had not had a previous life.Any help?
Sorry I ran on...
    Goddess Bless,

       Stormdancer, guardian mage and mind-mate Virr  
                  
Check out my new page on the internet at :
http://utherpen.simplenet.com

------------------------------

End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1595
**********************************