MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1643 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Companions by "Becky Leigh Clayton" 2) Re: Fact or Fiction?, being in a book braid by Banfilidh-+AT+-aol.com 3) book character/welcome/obMisty by "Shadow Wolf" 4) the Van mythos by "Nelson Greenslade" 5) Re: the Van mythos by "Mark Severson" 6) Re: Re: the Van mythos by Paustinnew-+AT+-aol.com 7) Other Misty books by geis 8) Re: Other Misty books by "Becky Leigh Clayton" 9) Re: book character/welcome/obMisty, Re: The Van Mythos by "Becky Leigh Clayton" 10) Re: Empire and urtho? by "Becky Leigh Clayton" 11) Re: the Van mythos by "Angie" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 05:39:28 -0700 From: "Becky Leigh Clayton" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Companions Message-ID: >I was wondering - If Talia had the option to 'give up' Rolan and not >become MO, and Van didn't (we think!) THEN... how come in Winds it says >that there would be fights among the Companions to who Chose Kris and >Lyra? > >That suggests that the MOC can re-bond (well I think that as if the MO >dies then the MOC HAS to Chose someone else, so can cope with being >'repudiated' by the potential MO (i.e. Talia)) > >Also 'normal' Choosings are take-it-or-the-Companion-dies as it were, so >Van didn't get a choice. > >BUT.... > >Does that mean that > >a) Yfandes was the only Companion WILLING to have Vanyel as her Chosen >(as she KNEW he'd Final Strike (she says she knew what the bond would >come to in MPrice)) > >OR > >b) Yfandes was 'Chosen' to be his Companion? > >If the Companions can choose who they want as their Chosen (see Kris and >Lyra) did Yfandes happen to be the only Companion around when Van was >running? I would have thought EVERY Companion would want Van as >'theirs'. > >I always thought that Companions only had ONE SPECIFIC person that they >would Chose, but it says they'd fight over kris and Lyra... Comments? > >Rainbow Also, in Magic's Promise, Vanyel says "When Lancir died-truth-I almost expected Taver to choose me." And in Arrows of the Queen Selenay mentions that the Monarch's Own Companion sometimes chooses an existing Herald AND Keren mentions that her grandfather (Talamir) wanted either her or Teren to be Queen's Own after him. So...if someone who is already a Herald is Chosen as Monarch's Own, what happens to their Companion? Does the Companion die? Or does he/she just break the bonding? Or is there a double bonding of Companions? Also, if Talia's bond with Rolan was so strong that they couldn't block each other out, COULD she have repudiated him if she hadn't wanted to be Queen's Own? Or was the bond not firmly set in until after she had made the decision to become a Herald? ALSO...When the Companions choose most Heralds say it feels like they're being measured for something. Could that be the Companion looking to see if that person is really compatible with them? Maybe the Companions also look for personality quirks to see if they (Companion and Herald) wouldn't drive each other absolutely crazy after a few weeks inside each other's head! Just a thought!! Zhai'helleva all, Becky Free web-based email, Forever, From anywhere! http://www.mailexcite.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 12:41:55 EDT From: Banfilidh-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Fact or Fiction?, being in a book braid Message-ID: <11efc656.359e5b55-+AT+-aol.com> HEYLA, IN RESPONSE TO CHOSING A BOOK WITH GOOD PLOT OR GOOD CHARCTORS . THATS A HARD QUESTION BECAUSE IF I HAVE A BOOK WITH REALLY GOOD CHARCTORS BUT THE PLOT GOES NO WHERE IT MAKES ME MAD AND BORES ME , BUT A BOOK WITH REALLY GOOD PLOT AND LAME CHARCTORS IS EVEN WORSE BECAUSE IF YOU DONT LIKE THE CHARCTERS YOU WONT CARE WHAT HAPPENS TO THEM . SO I HAVE TO CHOSE BOTH THERES NO WAY AROUND IT . THAT S WHY I LIKE MISTYS BOOKS THE CHARCTORS HAVE DEPTH AND LIFE AND THE PLOT IS GOOD TOO . I HAVE A QUESTION I VE BEEN ON THE LIST FOR ABOUT A WEEK NOW AND WHATS OIB? AND STUFF LIKE THAT EMAIL ME PRIVATELY IF NEED BE . ZAI'HELEVA APRYL BANDIFILDH-+AT+-AOL.COM ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 10:12:26 PDT From: "Shadow Wolf" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: book character/welcome/obMisty Message-ID: <19980704171227.1358.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> Heyla! > First the question -- if you were suddenly a character in a book, what > author or authors would you most/least want to be the ones writing it?>> Hmm...okay. I would definitely not want to be a character in an Orson Scott Card book. There's way too much manipulation going on in his books and none of his characters seem very happy. I think I would like to be a character in an Anne McCaffrey novel. Sure they have problems and challenges, but it all seems to work out pretty well in the end. Besides that I want to ride a dragon!!!! This question reminded me of the episodes of Star Trek TNG that featured Sherlock Holmes' nemesis, Moriarty (sp?). In these episodes the holodeck program, Moriarty, becomes self-aware and tries to take over the ship. He didn't cease to be a character in a book, but he grew to be more than just a character in a book. That leads to another question. Can a machine or computer program become self-aware? At our present level of technology, I don't think so. Perhaps it will happen in the future though. Mad Wizard said: First: I'd like to greet all of You and do a little introduction. I'm Polish, adult and student. If anybody wants more info, please, ask me. Second: my English is self-learnt, so I will make lots and lots of errors - please, don't kill me. Greetings and welcome to the list. I am always impressed with people that know more than one language. If this list were in Spanish, for example, I would have a very difficult time participating. I am very glad it is in my birth language, English. Cennydd said: ObMisty: Hmmmm. You know, it might be kind of fun to try and see what versions of the refigured myth and epic figures show up in Misty. For example, it occurs to me that Valdemar (the original Baron) is something of a Moses figure as well as an obvious King Arthur analog (he leads his people out of captivity and establishes a chivalric order for the protection of his land). If Baron Valdemar is a Moses figure would Vanyel be a Christ figure? One, he sacrifices himself for the people he loves. Two, he is "resurrected". BTW this is all the ObMisty I can think of right now. ShadowWolf, God of Stupid Chess Moves Knight of Fluff, Founder of OOPS Bonded with Wesak and Waszzy "My mind is going...I can feel it." --HAL-- ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 20:28:48 -0300 From: "Nelson Greenslade" To: "Misty" Subject: the Van mythos Message-ID: <01bda7a3$7ea39700$LocalHost-+AT+-epzfbrwg> <> We're cookin' with gas now!! I know just tons of people who would burn you at the stake (mentally) if you suggested that, but thankfully I'm not one of them. But I can see several differences between Jesus of Nazareth and Vanyel or Forst Reach. The first is that as far as we know, and according to the Bible, Christ was celibate. Since Van had kids, 'Lendel, Stef and Jonne, we know he was *not*. Then there's the fact that, no matter how John (a friend of mine) tries to convince me, I don't think Jesus was shaych. He loved all people equally (which John always says means He was bi, but he also says He was Goth, so....). I could go on, but I'm thinking the comparison was somewhat figurative in the aspects other than those you stated, so I'm going to try another avenue. If Valdemar was the King Arthur figure, then Van would be...what? A knight of the realm? Seems to suit him. But we have several from the legends. Lancelot, Percevil, Gawain, etc. I'm not the family Arthur buff (though I have to read a bunch of the books this summer...grr...I don't like being told what to read...), so somebody more familiar should answer this: which knight was he most like? And then there are so many other mythologies to consider.... *disappears into her books of world mythology* Elsa Knight of Fluff OoUH champion of Jonne and Moonbeam, caller of monsters and lover of mythology ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 18:15:04 -0500 From: "Mark Severson" To: Subject: Re: the Van mythos Message-ID: <001d01bda7a1$948a3260$806cb4cd-+AT+-markttz.eonet.com> Elsa wrote - snip - > I could go on, but I'm thinking the comparison was somewhat figurative in >the aspects other than those you stated, so I'm going to try another avenue. > If Valdemar was the King Arthur figure, then Van would be...what? A >knight of the realm? Seems to suit him. But we have several from the >legends. Lancelot, Percevil, Gawain, etc. I'm not the family Arthur buff >(though I have to read a bunch of the books this summer...grr...I don't like >being told what to read...), so somebody more familiar should answer this: >which knight was he most like? > And then there are so many other mythologies to consider.... >*disappears into her books of world mythology* > I would lean towards Lancelot. But there things which don't jive there either. While Lancelot was the Best Knight, he did love the queen and was cast out for it. (If I remember my Arthur stuff correctly, errors are quite probable). Van was never cast out, and other then at home could you ever really even call him an outcast, which was eventually resolved. Nor did he ever make goo goo eyes at the queen. I don't know what mythos/legend you could say Van most fits into (other then his own) It's an interesting thread, I hope some others come up with ideas of whom to compare Van with. As for the Van/Christ comparison no way, that strikes me as wwwwaaaayyyy to big a stretch. There is one thing to be thankful for. Had that been a Van/Mohammed comparison Shadow Wolf you might have had to pull a Shalmon Rusty and disappear as some Muslims DO NOT have a sense of humor concerning their religion. Thats my two cents worth. Mark the tax zombie ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 22:03:33 EDT From: Paustinnew-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Re: the Van mythos Message-ID: <560c0c1b.359edef6-+AT+-aol.com> Hey, all -- Just a quick request. Before anyone jumps up and down about Vanyel as Christ, or whomever, let's just agree to disagree. We don't need another week of trading opinions back and forth on why one person considers such a comment sacrilege, etc. Chocolate sheep to you all. Pam, who goes by Map ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 19:24:55 -0700 From: geis To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Other Misty books Message-ID: <359EE3F7.37E0-+AT+-virtual-cafe.com> Dear list-sibs, The only Misty books I've read are in the Velgarth series, but I'd like to try her others like Di Tregarde, Bardic Voices, SERRAted Edge & any others. Can you give me suggestions as to what to read first, your personal favorites & so on? I can't buy every book I want (unfortunately), so I want to make sure I invest in something I'll really, really like. Thank you for your help! Zhai'helleva, Taquera Lady In Green ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 20:20:44 -0700 From: "Becky Leigh Clayton" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Other Misty books Message-ID: >Dear list-sibs, > >The only Misty books I've read are in the Velgarth series, but I'd like >to try her others like Di Tregarde, Bardic Voices, SERRAted Edge & any >others. Can you give me suggestions as to what to read first, your >personal favorites & so on? I can't buy every book I want >(unfortunately), so I want to make sure I invest in something I'll >really, really like. Thank you for your help! > >Zhai'helleva, > >Taquera >Lady In Green > if you want to read Bardic Voices, try The Lark and the Wren. It's the first in the series and it's about Rune, a girl whose only dream is to become a Bard. I won't spoil the story for you, but she goes through some interesting things before acheiving her goal. Also, Mercedes Lackey cowrote a book with Anne McCaffrey called The Ship Who Searched. This was where i first heard of Mercedes Lackey. I actually picked it up because of Anne McCaffrey, but I went on from there to read The Black Gryphon in paperback, and here I am now! Also, you might try Rediscovery, which Misty wrote with Marion Zimmer Bradley. It's one of the Darkover novels. If you like stories about the shamanistic magic, there's one that Misty wrote about this girl, Jennifer Talldeer, who uses magic in her job as a private investigator, but I can't remember the name of it. Then, there's Tiger Burning Bright which Misty cowrote with Marion Zimmer Bradley and Andre Norton which is about three women who fight to save their kingdom from invasion. Sorry for the long message. I hope this helps! Becky Free web-based email, Forever, From anywhere! http://www.mailexcite.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 20:21:53 -0700 From: "Becky Leigh Clayton" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: book character/welcome/obMisty, Re: The Van Mythos Message-ID: >This question reminded me of the episodes of Star Trek TNG that featured >Sherlock Holmes' nemesis, Moriarty (sp?). In these episodes the >holodeck program, Moriarty, becomes self-aware and tries to take over >the ship. He didn't cease to be a character in a book, but he grew to be >more than just a character in a book. That leads to another question. >Can a machine or computer program become self-aware? At our present >level of technology, I don't think so. Perhaps it will happen in the >future though. > Two books that deal with the self awareness of a computer are 2001: A Space Oddysey by Arthur C. Clark and The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress by Robert Heinlein. In The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, Mike, the computer, had several personalities. A computer with Multiple Personality Disorder??? About Vanyel, I disagree about Vanyel being Lancelot. I see him more as a Sir Gareth. For those of you who don't know, Sir Gareth was a nephew of King Arthur who was killed defending Queen Guinevere from Sir Mordred, Arthur's bastard son and nemesis. He wasn't quite so pure and perfect as Galahad or Percival and he didn't dishonor himself either. He wasn't shaych, but hey, I don't think any of King Arthur's knights were. Anyway, just putting my two cents in! Becky Free web-based email, Forever, From anywhere! http://www.mailexcite.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 20:29:58 -0700 From: "Becky Leigh Clayton" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Empire and urtho? Message-ID: >I think the ones who got pushed out further than they had meant were the >Kaleda'in (sp?) (books-+AT+-home). I just re-read SWarning, and at one point, >Tremane's scholars report to him on the mage storms and their historical >precedents. The only thing they can come up with is that, long ago, before >the Empire began, the people who eventually founded the Empire served a >great leader-mage, who lost everything to another. However, he intended >his enemy's victory to be a hollow one, and therefore set off the >Cataclysm. Now, I haven't read the Mage Wars yet, but based on the >references in Storms this sounds Ma'ar-ish to me. But it is entirely >likely that I could be wrong. If you haven't read The Mage Wars yet, then don't read this. I think that the people who eventually formed the Empire were one of the mercenary units that Urtho used. (Doesn't it say somewhere about the Empire being founded by former mercenaries?) Anyway when it mentions the enemy's victory being a hollow one, I thought that was when Urtho triggered his tower to blow up and sent that spell canceling device to Ma'ar. But then, I could be wrong. Comments? Becky By the way, sorry about so many messages from me. I'll try to do better! Free web-based email, Forever, From anywhere! http://www.mailexcite.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 13:22:34 +0800 From: "Angie" To: Subject: Re: the Van mythos Message-ID: <01bda7d4$eacc3a00$0100007f-+AT+-heraldtg> : If Valdemar was the King Arthur figure, then Van would be...what? A :knight of the realm? Seems to suit him. But we have several from the I don't think Van's entirely Christ-like. The bible thingy is not exactly applicable to the lists's object of affection. ;) But Knightly.... there _are_ possibilities. But I can't see Van as a Percival (no no and no) or a Lancelot (oh no!) or a Gawain (definitely _not_!) And Gareth still strikes me as being too innocent. Don't ask me why. I don't think Van is Arthur-ish. He doesn't seem to fit in with the Knights... maybe as Merlyn he'd fit. (with the advisor thingy, the loner thingy, the magic thingy, and the mysterious-stranger thingy *g*) Merlyn isn't always depicted as an old man, you know... I seem to have fallen in love with a new word... "thingy".... ;p btw, the voting for the Finals are still on. Please go to http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/8890/poll.htm to vote. thank you. ;) (I even have the little scroll-down menus now! *g*) ( ) Wind to thy Wings ) ( Shadowblade mindmate to Raul <==+==> Elven archer-mage of Fairgrove >>~~~~~> | | High Priestess of the Goddess of the Elves | | High Priestess of OOPS | | Grand Dame of the Order of the Namers | | Singer of Fire - Alto section | | Member of the Order of Unsung Heroes (Eldan, Eric, and Terenil!) | | Member of the Mistic Circle | | Visit my Homepage ~> | | http://members.tripod.com/~Shadowblade \/ "Early to rise, early to bed, makes a man healthy but socially dead.." ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1643 **********************************