MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1676 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: apologies and a few thoughts by Lady Sunhawk 2) Re: apologies and a few thoughts by "Alia Rose" 3) Character pictures by Emerald Dragon 4) OLW! Oh my lord! by Aerith1-+AT+-webtv.net (Aerith Gainsborough) 5) Not-so-heavy Industry by Jenni Halpin 6) Hello my friends! by "Lady Sunhawk" 7) Valdemar's industrial revolution by Greg Wooledge 8) Re: Character pictures by "Rhiannon Shadowsong" 9) Re: Valdemar's industrial revolution by Kiyomi Onogi <00konogi-+AT+-jasper.uor.edu> 10) identify with/McKennitt/Technology/Eric/suffering/flight by "Shadow Wolf" 11) Re: lots of stuff, new listname by "Kristjan Wager" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 05:05:48 PDT From: Lady Sunhawk To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: apologies and a few thoughts Message-ID: <19980806120549.14492.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> >Now, I'll preface this by saying that I haven't seen the (shudder) Disney >version of The Black Cauldron, but I grew up reading the Prydian books, and >the thought of it being reduced to a few cartoony characters and stripped of >everything but its basic plot makes me physically ill. Can someone who has >read and loved these books AND seen this movie give me an honest opinion on >it? > >Well, enough for now.... > >John E. Morris I second the motion :> . I read a good review of the movie, but can someone please compare the movie and the book? Peace, Lady Sunhawk //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// A man's reach should exceed his grasp, else whats a heaven for? -Emerson ------------------------------------------------------------ Rennaisance Faire or bust! ============================================================ Rape.....Pillage......then burn. ============================================================ "Strange women lying in ponds dirstributing swords is no basis for a system of government. -Monty Python and the Holy Grail /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 09:57:37 PDT From: "Alia Rose" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: apologies and a few thoughts Message-ID: <19980806165737.24770.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> >From: "JOHN E MORRIS" >Now, I'll preface this by saying that I haven't seen the (shudder) Disney >version of The Black Cauldron, but I grew up reading the Prydian books, and >the thought of it being reduced to a few cartoony characters and stripped of >everything but its basic plot makes me physically ill. Can someone who has >read and loved these books AND seen this movie give me an honest opinion on >it? well, i remember seeing The Black Cauldron when it first cam e out and loving it, but i think i was 8 at the time, since then, i discovered the books, fell in love with them, and started frantically seeing if i could find the movie again. its kinda a mix of a couple of the books(i think, i dont have my copy yet), and its pretty true to plot from what i remember. hope this helps. ObMisty: ummm... i would also be interested in reading about Urtho and before the mage wars, i was always curious HOW he had made the gryphons, and what went wrong with Kechara. ************************************* Alianora Rose Friend of Greenfire ************************************* "Strangly enough, the only thing that went through the mind of the bowl of petunias was Oh no, not again." -The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 11:23:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Emerald Dragon To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Character pictures Message-ID: <19980806182346.7676.rocketmail-+AT+-send102.yahoomail.com> Hello all... i have a question that i'm hoping that someone can help me answer......remember in the Winds Trilogy that there were pictures of different characters on some of the pages (paperback copies)....i was wondering if there was a book out with just pictures of all characters that were in the Valdemar series?...if not, does anyone besides me think that there should be one.... meg survivor of the Wisconsin Winters! == Hey, it's okay to be different!! Just look at me, I'm living proof!! _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free -+AT+-yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 12:20:37 -0700 (MST) From: Aerith1-+AT+-webtv.net (Aerith Gainsborough) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: OLW! Oh my lord! Message-ID: <25064-35CA0205-1957-+AT+-mailtod-131.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Just a quick hello to the newbies! I want to remind all you out there that there still exists an Order of Light Warriors, those of us listsibs that love our Role-Playing Games! (Pencil and Paper and Video Gamers alike!) So if you love to roll the dice or run about like an idiot collecting Mithril (sorry, Shining Force 3 really got to me) come on and join! To check out the OLW visit http://www.angelfire.com/az/sugoi/fforder.html To join, please email me at Shadow_lover17-+AT+-hotmail.com !!!!! My ObMisty, just on the thread of continuitey errors, or Misty-akes, as some may call them, not alot of people notice this, but I have mentioned it from time to time. In several parts of the Winds trilogy Misty labels the race of tervadi as "flightless" yet in Silver Gryphon, she talks about the landing platforms to be used by Gryphons and tervadi????? How can a flightless being use a landing platform? Other news, nothing.... time to go! ~Jeanne Riverwolf, mindmate to Serran ni'Grotto, champion of Griffon and Hyllarr, OOUH, Founder of the OLW, and all around crazy otaku of just about everything...! ^_^ http://www.angelfire.com/az/sugoi/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 14:35:04 -0700 From: Jenni Halpin To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Not-so-heavy Industry Message-ID: <35CA2183.48A1-+AT+-uor.edu> Magefire k'Vala wrote: "My other thought is on the 'industrialization of Valdemar'thread. I would somewhat look forward to this, because the artificers are actually thinking about the _side effects_ of their inventions, like pollution or materials waste. So I think that _intelligent_ induatrialization is not necessarily bad, either for the country or for the stories." John Morris wrote: "I have a thought on this as well. I wonder how reasonable this is. Of course, we only have our own experience to judge from, but it strikes me as a bit optimistic to believe that the Valdemarans would be scientifically aware enough to judge the long-term effects of industrialization accurately. After all, no one in London realized that mass industry would lead to the famous nineteenth-century Dickensian pea-soup fogs." I just have to kick in my own thoughts. The artificers have raised both the issue of non-renewable resources and pollution. They've got a couple of options from this ethical position (well, three that I can see): quit, give up, prohibit further development (that's one); ignore the danger and go full force forward; or (and this is the tricky one) begin cautious development. Remember Kethry's mirror egg shields? She was going to distribute the means to every school she knew of, so that the KNOWLEDGE would be out there. My point is that the folk of Velgarth (our heroes anyway) seem to be able to take knowledge as adequate warning. I'm also wondering whether, (while trying very hard not to blow plot points), Valdemar, or indeed anyone in the West, would be interested in massive development. Call me an optimist, if you must, but I can't see, but for the greed of the few, heavy industry developing. The only caveat rattling the back of this cage I call a brain is that, having seen the floating barges and the carry basket of the Kaled'a'in, the artificers could be inspired to work to emulate that for the common folk. So, these be my musings. Make of them what you will. Yours while I wait for a firecat, Jenni. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 17:16:31 PDT From: "Lady Sunhawk" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Hello my friends! Message-ID: <19980807001632.25225.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> Well, I originally sent this to Kiarreth (intending it for the whole Council :}), who was kind enough to return it to me, with the suggestion I send it to the entire Hall. So, I hope you all enjoy it! I made a few changes..... >> The tall fire-mage makes eye-contact with each of the creatures gathered in the hall, especially the >> Councilors. "I thank you all so very very much--for the lovely >welcome >> and the wonderful gifts." she says softly but clearly, her eyes >shining >> with surprise and joy. "Now-I give you my gift." Her gray eyes >narrow >> in concentration as a small globe of fire forms in her hands, blue >and >> green coalescing inside it. She slowly raises her hands, the fire >> growing. It floats up, delicately lighting a corner of the Council >Hall >> in flowing colors. "My friends, I am overjoyed to join you, and am >> certain that I shall stay for quite some time!" She finally allows >her >> face to break into a full smile. >> >> =================================================================== God Bless all, >> Peace, >> Sunhawk >> //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// >> A man's reach should exceed his grasp, else whats a heaven >> for? >> -Emerson >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> Rennaisance Faire or bust! >> ============================================================ >> Rape.....Pillage......then burn. >> ============================================================ >> "Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis >> for a system of government. >> -Monty Python and the Holy Grail >> /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ >> ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 20:19:54 -0400 From: Greg Wooledge To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Valdemar's industrial revolution Message-ID: <19980806201954.B25732-+AT+-phoenix.local> JOHN E MORRIS (JEATONM-+AT+-prodigy.net) wrote: > it strikes me as > a bit optimistic to believe that the Valdemarans would be scientifically > aware enough to judge the long-term effects of industrialization accurately. > After all, no one in London realized that mass industry would lead to the > famous nineteenth-century Dickensian pea-soup fogs. I think it's plausible that Valdemar could have a more "enlightened" industrial revolution. There's a fundamental difference between their culture and ours: magic. First of all, and most importantly, I don't think the Companions would stand idly by while Valdemar is polluted. Even discounting them, however, there's the Hardorn earthbinding magic, which would certainly prevent excessive pollution in that country; perhaps some of that effect would occur in Valdemar as well. Finally, many of the Mages already have an advanced sense of environmental awareness -- Mages are taught that their spells have profound effects on the climate, and the good ones always take pains to ensure that the side effects of their workings are canceled (even if it's usually the apprentices that are stuck with the tedious work). -- "Daddy, why do those people have to | Greg Wooledge use Microsoft Windows?" | wooledge-+AT+-kellnet.com "Don't stare, son; it's not polite." | http://www.kellnet.com/wooledge/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 17:23:43 PDT From: "Rhiannon Shadowsong" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Character pictures Message-ID: <19980807002344.23745.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> >i have a question that i'm hoping that someone can help me >answer......remember in the Winds Trilogy that there were pictures of >different characters on some of the pages (paperback copies)....i was >wondering if there was a book out with just pictures of all characters >that were in the Valdemar series?...if not, does anyone besides me >think that there should be one.... > >meg > >survivor of the >Wisconsin Winters! >== >Hey, it's okay to be different!! Just look at me, I'm living proof!! I think so. Since I'm perpetually broke (and unemployed and proud of it) I barely have enough money for books, let alone extras like that. You can get stuff like that at Firebird, so if it exists, that's where to look. "I'm also wondering whether, (while trying very hard not to blow plot points), Valdemar, or indeed anyone in the West, would be interested in massive development." I think that the artificers are in it for the joy of invention. I really think that people would be interested in improvng life, but not necessarily everything. One of the things that people want is to be able to make those paved roads again. That would be spiffy, and no one knows how it was done. I can see the council and the Queen giving a lot of funding to stuff like that. But no one wants the heavy pollution (Natoli and her friends were really worried about soot and whatnot) and so I think that they wouold be careful. Some of the results would not be foreseen, but I think that most of the inventors are conscientious enough to fully test their machines for smoke levels, soot, and other undesireable effects. Oh boy, am I rambling. I should probably shut up now. But first I have to add this (I think about stuff like this WAY too much). The artificers will probably figure out how to power a lot of their stuff with magic, unlike our Industrial Revolution, which was long after the age of skepticism had obliterated belief in magic. That will definitely cut down on pollution levels. Although our government would never give money to research proving that.....hee. I said I'd shut up. I will. I did. See? I can stop babbling if I want to. Wind to thy Wings, Rhiannon Shadowsong Visit the Tower at http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/3965 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 18:11:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Kiyomi Onogi <00konogi-+AT+-jasper.uor.edu> To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Valdemar's industrial revolution Message-ID: > Even discounting them, however, there's the Hardorn earthbinding magic, > which would certainly prevent excessive pollution in that country; > perhaps some of that effect would occur in Valdemar as well. Not to spoil any books but at the end of the storms series EVERY RULER in the allience as well as whoever else they could reach had to submit to earth binding. Also earlier today someone mentioned the need to find out more about Urtho. I think Misty definitly needs to expand on that story line, who was he and where did he come from. Princess ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 18:37:10 PDT From: "Shadow Wolf" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: identify with/McKennitt/Technology/Eric/suffering/flight Message-ID: <19980807013712.29207.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> IceMaiden said: as for the character *I* most identify with, depends on which world...in Valdemar, it would have to be Vanyel Ashkevron, hands down...and no, i won't go into a rambling discourse on why.... I, for one, would like to know why people identify with a character. The reason(s) one person identifies with a character may be totally different from another person's reason(s) to identify with the same character Rhiannon Shadowsong said: Which McKennit to recommned..hmmm... I think the the new one, The Book of Secrets is great and the Mask and Mirror too. I think the Secrets will be easier to find because its newest, so you may want to get that one. Thanks to you and everyone for their recommendations. In the absence of hand-to-hand combat, magic isn't effective any more, and I really think that Heralds would become obsolete in that respect. No one could be better judges, but at some point they aren't going to be using magic any more, and that wouldn't be near as much fun. It would be particularly nice if we had someone that could cast a truth spell in Washington D. C. right now. I think many other useful things could be done with magic. For example; secure communications, weather control and prediction, transportation of important items. It appears that magic can do many of those things more reliably than "modern" devices. Even some weather witches would be nice to have when there are forest fires that need some rain put on them. Becky said: Also, another Eric question: The he went to his performance, played amazingly, and told his teachers he was leaving the school. I've been looking for this scene, but I can't find it. Did I make it up? No you didn't make it up. I remember Eric was thinking about the reasons he started playing Ren./faires instead of becoming a virtuoso. IIRC he attended Julliard and was playing a recital at graduation when he decided that wasn't the life he wanted. I looked for the textevd but couldn't find it however I do remember the scene. Kay Silversong said: ObMisty: I think that all of her characters suffer in a different way. Talia and Vanyel suffered more emotionally, whereas Misty's other characters suffer more physical and mental pain. They get into battles where they are hurt, and others that they love are. Vanyel and Talia are more emotionally scarred, even though they had the same bad battle experiances. There's only so much torture you can write about, I think. If you consider that Elspeth started out as the "Royal Brat" she had her own type of suffering. She had to learn to think of herself as being just like everyone else. It takes a long time, but she finally grows to the point that she is thinking of other people before herself. She really gets slapped around hard emotionally by Darkwind, Need and others. Since she loves Darkwind it's doubly hard to take the "slaps" from him. Florian said: One thing I would like to see is *effective* methods of flight for the Heralds. (No, not Companion pegusi either.) The Griffon books had something, but its so risky I can't see why anyone would attempt it. Better to use hot air balloons. Personally, I'd rather ride in the baskets carried by gryphons. IIRC they had a spell to make the rider weigh less so that the gryphons didn't have trouble with the weight. Besides, in a balloon you have to go where ever the wind takes you. Gryphons would be able to take you exactly where you want to go. ShadowWolf, God of Stupid Chess Moves Knight of Fluff, Founder of OOPS Bonded with Wesak and Waszzy "My mind is going...I can feel it..." --HAL-- ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Aug 1998 04:37:19 PDT From: "Kristjan Wager" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: lots of stuff, new listname Message-ID: <19980807113720.23264.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> Hi listsibs It has been a long time since I last have had the time to reply, but I think I'll try... Hello to all the newbies, welcome to the list, and watch out for the rain, it falls heavily on newbies for some reason. There has been a lot on the industrial revolution in Valgarth, so I put in my 2 cent. I think that after having been used to magic for so long, the revolution will be slower than in RL. BTW does anyone else feel it is a bit much, if everyone thinks about the side effects all the time. That doesn't sound very likely. Someone asked what character we felt most like. Well it has to be Alberich for some reason, I don't really know why, just something about how closed he is, but still able to make friends with many different people. Ah, misty-akes..... Well ever since I have read TLHM, I have been annoyed by a inconsistence from MPawn to MPromise. In MPawn, Savil founds out that Vanyel have had all his channels blasted open, except for the healing gift, including the bardic gift, this is made very clear, but in MPromise tells Mendrel that he ( Vanyel ) will never be as good as Mendrel because of the lack of the bardic gift, and in the end of the book Vanyel uses the last of his energy to save Jervis rather than heal himself. Yes, I know it is nit-picking, but it annoys me every time i read the books. And now to something completely different. Since we are more than one Kris ( by whatever spelling you use ) on the list, I have tried to come up with a new listname, and I've chosen Absalon. As the historian comes up in me, I'll bore you to tears with the reason for this name. Bishop Absalon was the fosterbrother to and most loyal subject of King Valdemar the Great ( the 1st ) of Denmark, so for obvious reasons I think it is a appropriate name for a Dane on this list. Sheep shaped danish or danish-flavored sheep to all of you. Kris. who now is Absalon Member of OLW and OOUH. Champion of the Ladies in Green. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1676 **********************************