MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1680 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Sheep + Sites by LLL5ski-+AT+-aol.com 2) Re: magic/technology/fluff by Kiyomi Onogi <00konogi-+AT+-jasper.uor.edu> 3) Guns, Industry, Thought by Jenni Halpin 4) really sorry, no Misty, just Black Caldron by "Brynn/Jennifer Ireland" 5) Re: Firesong's hair colour by "Judy L. Wood" 6) Re: magic/technology/fluff by "Judy L. Wood" 7) Re: suffering by edrucker-+AT+-ruraltel.net (Ed Rucker) 8) Re: really sorry, no Misty, just Black Caldron by Lady Sunhawk 9) Re: suffering by "Judy L. Wood" 10) Re: really sorry, no Misty, just Black Caldron by "Rhiannon Shadowsong" 11) Mothers & Printing Press by Jenni Halpin 12) Braid (sort of): Black Cauldron/Bad Mothers by Kenneth Allen Hyde 13) Mothers/CHILDREN by Jenni Halpin 14) i'm new/crossbows/industry by nathanh124-+AT+-juno.com (Nathan D Henderson) 15) Re: magic/technology/fluff by Greg Wooledge 16) Re: i'm new/crossbows/industry by bausch-+AT+-ruraltel.net (Lester D. Bausch) 17) firebirds/suffering by nathanh124-+AT+-juno.com (Nathan D Henderson) 18) Re: Mothers/CHILDREN by Paustinnew-+AT+-aol.com 19) turning in by nathanh124-+AT+-juno.com (Nathan D Henderson) 20) Re: turning in by LCM46-+AT+-aol.com 21) REALLY long braid! by Joleth9652-+AT+-aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 11:15:56 EDT From: LLL5ski-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Sheep + Sites Message-ID: Heyla! First, I need help. I seemed to have missed something here. What's with the sheep?!?!?! I go on vacation for a week, and everyone's talking about them. Could some one explain??? Secondly, I'm looking for Velgarth/Misty websites. Has anyone seen any? Wind to thy Wings, Dawnfeather ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 08:55:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Kiyomi Onogi <00konogi-+AT+-jasper.uor.edu> To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: magic/technology/fluff Message-ID: > Does Valdemar have the crossbow? I don't remember seeing it. Here on > earth, when the crossbow was developed, it was regarded with horror as > the ultimate killing device, the one which would change our lives forever, > etc. -- kind of like your view on guns. I believe that they have the cross bow. Don't they mention it in the end of Storm Warnings? Returning to the Firesong's hair thread I'm fairly sure he said that his hair was white by the time he was 10. I vaugly remember hearing that there is music to go with Misty's books could someone enlighten me? life, love, and happiness, Princess -+AT+->-->-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 09:47:35 -0700 From: Jenni Halpin To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Guns, Industry, Thought Message-ID: <35CF241D.44C6-+AT+-uor.edu> Well, I'm back in the office (and, being summer-time in an academic institution, this is where I have time to keep in touch) and wow, y'all are sprinkling my head with tons of things I wanna say! Bear with me, friends. Peter Allen wrote: "Also, Velgarth is at some point going to start researching heavily into chemistry. Except for some small dabbling by the Blues (which from what we can tell is just engineering) and Urtho (who, hell, is dead), not many people have taken it seriously. This leads us to a main difference between our world and Velgarth: gunpowder. True, it was discovered many centuries before our Industrial Revolution, but I am sure that given a revolution, someone will either discover it (and then the next person, after more careful actions in the lab, will rediscover), or again, a power hungry person will have discovered for him/her. Note that this doesn't need to be at all sensed by earth-sense." Actually, Lissandra was dealing with alchemy in _Magic's Price_, and we see the Healer Devan in a still-room of a keep (as we see Kero in BTS) in _Arrow's Fall_. While these aren't necessarily chemistry at the atomic (let alone sub-atomic) or even molecular level, they are the natural precursors. And, to strike fear in the hearts of everyone, Talia, in _Fall_, recalls Alberich instructing a group of final year trainees that there are cheimcals which can make one speak (I believe he mentions chemicals, along with torture etc.). Chemical warfare is ALWAYS a possibility, even at this level of scientific accomplishment. SKETI. Nelson Greenslade adds "Guns, for instance. They already kill from a distance with bows, crossbows, throwing knives, and magic spells, but guns...they just make killing a whole lot easier. Too many children have died accidentally" Yeah. I totally agree with you! But look at the tragedy of the murder Tallo committed: yes, guns would make this more "easy," but they've already got plenty of means for mayhem. And Greg Wooledge's 2 cents: "Does Valdemar have the crossbow? I don't remember seeing it. Here on earth, when the crossbow was developed, it was regarded with horror as the ultimate killing device, the one which would change our lives forever, etc. -- kind of like your view on guns." I think some of the guardians on the battlements toward the end of _Arrow's Fall_ may have them, but my books are at home, and I'm not. But I think, also, that Kerowyn's Skybolts use them (but I have NO idea where that cite is). More from Greg: "a couple centuries before the industrial revolution on our world, we had the printing press. Does Valdemar have anything that could substitute for the printing press, or any plans in that direction? (It's quite possible that our own industrial revolution -- and the science which enabled it -- would not have occurred when it did without the ability to disseminate ideas rapidly and accurately through mass printing.)" Karal mentions, when first examining the old texts Ulrich gives him, something about the relatively difficult quality of the copy (I believe, that it'd been hand copied), from which I infer _some_ superior means of reproduction...quite possibly a printing press. Even if they haven't gotten them yet, which I'm not prepared to stipulate, they've surely got the technology to develop them: they can melt metal to create letter-forms and can build the machinery of the press (they've got coal and they've got blacksmiths). In counter argument, the Empire has rooms full of scribes copying official documents. Seems THEY don't have a press: is this solely because they don't need them (magic replication of docs, as Tremane notes the loss of) or because they haven't developed one? In either case, that doesn't stop Valdemar, or the allies, or the Empire for that matter, from developing a press now....and doesn't say that Valdemar, which has never relied as fully as the Empire on magic, doesn't already have a press. Well, I've been as dryly longwinded as I, at my worst, am, but my thanks for your indulgence. I remain, Yours while waiting for a firecat, Jenni. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 10:15:30 PDT From: "Brynn/Jennifer Ireland" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: really sorry, no Misty, just Black Caldron Message-ID: <19980810171531.13219.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> kalistia firemyst wrote: >florin, and anyone else who wants what info i got: the black caldron >is(supposedly) coming to stores (in the us) on the 34th of augus(this >month!!!!!) heehee!! Every time i see an ad or hear anyone mention this movie, i practically get hysterical (-sp?)! i can't *Stand* the idea of disney messing about with Lloyd Alexander's works of (rather childish) art! now, i have not seen the movie, so maybe it is good... but the way disney mangles things? i *really* hope they don't ruin this one. i know it's been out for years, but... i'm worried about the next generation of fantasy freaks! what if the disney version stinks, and they think theat that is how all fantasy is, and and and... PLEASE tell me that this post is completely unfounded and that they did a good job for once! i am very sorry about the lack of obMisty. i just got back to 119 messages, and am trying to get through them in the appoindted hour my mother has let me have... bye, Brynn "A room without books is like a body without a soul." -Cicero ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 15:05:11 -0400 From: "Judy L. Wood" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Firesong's hair colour Message-ID: <35CF4466.AA21358F-+AT+-BellSouth.Net> Angie wrote: > :ObMisty... > : > :Firesong says his hair was white after 10 years right? He says that's > :early... but I'm /sure/ when Savil goes to visit the Hawkbrothers to get > :help for Van, and Brightstar convinces them, someone says that non-mages > :change colour in three or five years... textedv anyone? > > I thought he meant that his hair turned white when he was 10, not after 10 > years. There was this passage about him working magic since he could toddle... > (where's our Disciple of Textevd? *g*) So call me lazy about not looking it up. > I thought non-mages took longer than 3-5 years? then again, i am sick, so i > could just be making things up. Firesong said that his hair turned white in his 10th year. From the context he and other Tayladras (please forgive my spelling. When I search for 1 word that I see all the time I can't find it *g*) mean of life(10 years old) AFAIK, not many Talaydras are even handling nodes at all at 10 years. I believe the 3 - 5 years is the time it takes for a mage's hair to turn white after they begin to handle node energy. The only time frame I have seen for a non-mage is in MageWinds series. I believe Darkwind (or his brother) says that non-mages turn white before their 30th summer. JW ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 15:16:30 -0400 From: "Judy L. Wood" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: magic/technology/fluff Message-ID: <35CF470E.A978E02F-+AT+-BellSouth.Net> Kiyomi Onogi wrote: > > Does Valdemar have the crossbow? I don't remember seeing it. Here on > > earth, when the crossbow was developed, it was regarded with horror as > > the ultimate killing device, the one which would change our lives forever, > > etc. -- kind of like your view on guns. > > I believe when the assassin/artist Celandine was killed by Kero, Skiff, and > others it was with crossbow bolts . I would say more but it is hard to type > while holding a baby who also wants to type. JW nbvvvvvvvvvv jhvgbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 14:40:38 -0500 From: edrucker-+AT+-ruraltel.net (Ed Rucker) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: suffering Message-ID: <35CF4CB6.778CCEA0-+AT+-ruraltel.net> Bright the Day! On the suffering/Nyara thread, I remember Nyara thinking about families she saw in her father's compound and the wonder of a father whose touches were just fatherly love. But, I also seem to remember a line about and that wonderful creature called a mother. Now this got me to thinking - scary, I know! Misty doesn't seem to show mothers in a very good light. I mean think about the mothers of so many of the main characters: Talia's birth mother is dead, the First-Wife(what's her name?) beat her Vanyel's Mom sent him off to Liss because she couldn't be bothered Elspeth's Mom(Selenay) couldn't deal and turned her over to Talia Darkwind's mother is dead Nyara's mother is non-existant Skif has no idea who his parents are I could go on and on. Can anyone think of a main characters who had GOOD mothers? ***************************************************** On the printing press thread, isn't there something about that in AFlight. I've loaned out my Arrows books, but when Dirk sends that music to Kris and Talia, isn't there a reference to him being assigned to a sector where the printing presses are? Anyone else remember that? ******************************************************* Amy said: < As involved as Vkandis and Kal'enel are with their people, I doubt they To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: really sorry, no Misty, just Black Caldron Message-ID: <19980810205132.23781.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> PLEASE tell me that this post is completely unfounded and that they did a good job for once! bye, Brynn Well, sort of, I just saw it for the first time. Definitely some parts are Disneyfied (ex: Doli is a fairy who disappears in a poof of fairy dust). BUT, while it is not as dark as the book(s), it is a dark movie (several times I was left wondering "*this* is a childrens movie???") and is fairly faithful to the books. It did recieve a PG rating, so its not Pocahontas. its not the books, but it is good. ObMisty: does anyone know if they are ever going to change the auction item on the firebird site? Peace, Sunhawk //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// A man's reach should exceed his grasp, else whats a heaven for? -Emerson ------------------------------------------------------------ Rennaisance Faire or bust! ============================================================ Rape.....Pillage......then burn. ============================================================ "Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. -Monty Python and the Holy Grail /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 17:12:51 -0400 From: "Judy L. Wood" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: suffering Message-ID: <35CF6252.F9F8BE3B-+AT+-BellSouth.Net> > > > > I could go on and on. Can anyone think of a main characters who > had GOOD mothers? > As a matter of fact I can. Dirk, Karal, Firesong, Darkwind, Kero, Kero's mother (she had 2 actually Tarma and Kethry), and Elspeth (yes, Selenay has her faults, but she always had Elspeth's best interests in heart. She knew something was wrong with her but did not have the ability to solve her problems. She had the intellegence to turn to someone else (Talia) to help her. Yes, she had a problem seeing Elspeth's father in Elspeth, but I believe when Talia helped her to overcome what Hulda had done to her, Selenay was able to overcome that. I also think that what might be construed as lack of concern is the fact that Selenay has the wisdom to let Elspeth go. She realizes that Elspeth is an adult, capable of making her own decisions.I do not count dying as a sign of a bad mother. No matter how much a mother loves her child, she cannot stop Death from taking her. I also think that Nyara's mother is not mentioned because she has no memory or knowledge of her, and ML's narrative is from Nyara's point of view, and she has no knowledge, erro, no mention. I think her mother was a slave, and after Nyara's birth, Falconsbane probably had killed her. In fact, I think most of the people you mentioned (with probable exception of Skif), did not have bad mothers, but bad fathers. > ***************************************************** > On the printing press thread, isn't there something about that in AFlight. > I've loaned out my Arrows books, but when Dirk sends that music to > Kris and Talia, isn't there a reference to him being assigned to a sector > where the printing presses are? Anyone else remember that? > Yes, I do. I believe it was when Skif met up with Kris and Talia with mail and news.I cannot remember the actual quote and AFlight is not handy at moment to use. But, I believe Skif said that Dirk went to the area where the printing houses are. > ******************************************************* > > Jw ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 14:18:20 PDT From: "Rhiannon Shadowsong" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: really sorry, no Misty, just Black Caldron Message-ID: <19980810211821.28260.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> >Every time i see an ad or hear anyone mention this movie, i practically >get hysterical (-sp?)! i can't *Stand* the idea of disney messing about >with Lloyd Alexander's works of (rather childish) art! now, i have not >seen the movie, so maybe it is good... but the way disney mangles >things? i *really* hope they don't ruin this one. i know it's been out >for years, but... i'm worried about the next generation of fantasy >freaks! what if the disney version stinks, and they think theat that is >how all fantasy is, and and and... > >PLEASE tell me that this post is completely unfounded and that they did >a good job for once! i am very sorry about the lack of obMisty. i just >got back to 119 messages, and am trying to get through them in the >appoindted hour my mother has let me have... I haven't seen the movie (I will soon.....) but one thing I would like to say about Disney: Usually the stories are so mutilated that you can't see the resemblence. So the experience isn't painful because you can treat the movie like a totally different story. I have heard that the movie is kinda a mix of all 5 Prydain books, and while it upsets me that Disney takes such liberties, if they did even a halfway-decent job, I'll forgive them. And I have an ObMisty ::smirks:: >I believe Darkwind >(or his brother) says that >non-mages turn white before their 30th summer. > >JW Yes! That is what I was trying to remember! (Some of you may have noticed my tendency to be vague. I love it when someone says specifically what I meant but either couldn't articulate or remember!) And these two answers for Clarienne: >I could go on and on. Can anyone think of a main characters who >had GOOD mothers? My answer: Dirk. He has a very loving and wonderful family. And Kris' mother didn't really know what to do with a child but she was very good, in the best way she knew how. And Kerowyn's mother wasn't that bad. Perhaps not the ideal role model for a mercenary, but a good mother. Properly domestic, loving, and all that. I could probably name a few more, but I think that this is enough. >On the printing press thread, isn't there something about that in >AFlight. >I've loaned out my Arrows books, but when Dirk sends that music to >Kris and Talia, isn't there a reference to him being assigned to a >sector >where the printing presses are? Anyone else remember that?" Yes, I do. And I don't have anything to add to that, for once. I think I'm done. I hope I'm done. Wind to thy Wings, Rhiannon Shadowsong Visit the Tower at http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/3965 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 14:35:35 -0700 From: Jenni Halpin To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Mothers & Printing Press Message-ID: <35CF67A3.4597-+AT+-uor.edu> Minstrel Clarienne Lady in Green wrote: Misty doesn't seem to show mothers in a very good light. I mean think about the mothers of so many of the main characters: > Talia's birth mother is dead, the First-Wife(what's her name?) beat her > Vanyel's Mom sent him off to Liss because she couldn't be bothered > Elspeth's Mom(Selenay) couldn't deal and turned her over to Talia > Darkwind's mother is dead > Nyara's mother is non-existant > Skif has no idea who his parents are > > I could go on and on. Can anyone think of a main characters who > had GOOD mothers? > > ***************************************************** > On the printing press thread, isn't there something about that in AFlight. > I've loaned out my Arrows books, but when Dirk sends that music to > Kris and Talia, isn't there a reference to him being assigned to a sector > where the printing presses are? Anyone else remember that? The easy one first: I think you're right about Dirk's assignment, but something in my head is saying that the attribution is to paper mills, rather than printing presses. When I get home I'll have to check my copies (unless some kind spirit does so for me in the next few hours). Mothers...Darkwind's was good, I gather, but, yes, she's dead. More weight of evidence to no good mothers are: Lady Lark in Bardic Voices, what IS her name? Oh, Rune. Her mother, Stella, is promiscuous, and bitter, and lazy. Kero's mother, Lenore, while not unkind, is a major focus of resentment for her (due, primarily, to her weakness/inability). Kethry's mother also, I believe, died while she was very young, though Kethry herself appears to have been a good mother (except to Lenore). Aha! [skip this paragraph if you haven't read _Silver Gryphon_] Zhaneel and Winterhart are good mothers. Though it only arises by implication in the case of Zhaneel, Blade comes to the conclusion that she not only loves her father (a far more difficult conclusion than that she loves mom), but that she also loves her mother...and Ikala. [safe to start reading again!] Also, Hydona's motherliness is strongly underlined. Karal seems not to have a bad mother, though we see more of his father. And Melenna is a good mother to Medren, even if she does attempt to use him as a lever, briefly. So, maybe it's just that it's far easire to depict a character in turmoil and outside of balance when they've been deprived of maternal support: when I think of it, most of her heroes are working for emotional stability/supports. Yours while I wait for a firecat, Jenni. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 17:39:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Kenneth Allen Hyde To: Misty Lackey List Subject: Braid (sort of): Black Cauldron/Bad Mothers Message-ID: On Mon, 10 Aug 1998, Brynn wrote: > i can't *Stand* the idea of disney messing about with Lloyd Alexander's > works of (rather childish) art! [snip] what if the disney version > stinks, and they think theat that is how all fantasy is, and and and... Well, to be honest, I like both the book and the movie. I have bought the movie, in fact. =) But then again, I like Disney. I also happen to love the concept of "theme and variations," so different versions of the same story, even widely divergent ones, just get me more interested rather than less. I have a collection of retellings and variations on the theme of "Beauty and the Beast," for example that ranges from horrific, to sweet, to hard sci-fi, to generic. And the Disney version is definitely one of the versions that I really like. > PLEASE tell me that this post is completely unfounded and that they did > a good job for once! Well, I can't reassure anyone who thinks that Disney has never done a good job. If you don't like Disney or refigurations/retellings of stories, then you will probably hate the movie Black Cauldron. It's actually a combination of plot elements from "The Book of Three" and "The Black Cauldron" with some changes to the details and the overall plot. And there are certainly some weaknesses. But there are also some very good changes (I like Gurgi's character development and the refiguring of Taran's sacrifice in the movie as much as I like the book versions, although they are very, very different). Basically, if you feel that a movie has to be a literal and strict rendition of the text it is based on, then you will be disappointed. If you think that a movie should be viewed as a variation on the theme set by the text, then you will probably enjoy the film and the comparison and contrast of the movie with the books. On Mon, 10 Aug 1998, Ed Rucker wrote: > I could go on and on. Can anyone think of a main characters who > had GOOD mothers? Dirk. Zhaneel's kid, the gryphon in Silver Gryphon, and Winterheart's daughter (I can't remember either character's name, though). Tarma had a loving family (not for long, but she did have them). Obviously, Keth's children had a loving mother and father. One thing, however, is that it is very hard for an interesting main character to have a good home life. If they have a loving and supportive family and rebel against it, they hardly show up as a sympathetic character. (Oone of the things that I didn't like about either character in The Silver Gryphon was that they both had good families with loving parents and were pretty much ungrateful. I know too many kids like that in real life who rebel against familial love and then whine that no-one loves/understands/what-have-you them.) If they have a loving and supporting family and don't rebel against it, they aren't likely to have the kind of emotional problems that make them interesting as characters. Or, optionally, they can have a loving family in their background, but have it taken from them somehow. And finally, there is the simple fact that Misty is, afaik, not a mother and may not be particularly interested in motherhood. So, she may just have chosen not to include mothers in her books. May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd Councilor of Mist Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me //www.ling.udel.edu/hyde/prof/ken.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 16:23:52 -0700 From: Jenni Halpin To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Mothers/CHILDREN Message-ID: <35CF8106.7109-+AT+-uor.edu> Kenneth Allen Hyde wrote: > On Mon, 10 Aug 1998, Ed Rucker wrote: > > > I could go on and on. Can anyone think of a main characters who > > had GOOD mothers? > > Dirk. Zhaneel's kid, the gryphon in Silver Gryphon, and Winterheart's > daughter (I can't remember either character's name, though). Tarma had a > loving family (not for long, but she did have them). Obviously, Keth's > children had a loving mother and father. > > One thing, however, is that it is very hard for an interesting main > character to have a good home life. If they have a loving and supportive > family and rebel against it, they hardly show up as a sympathetic > character. (Oone of the things that I didn't like about either character > in The Silver Gryphon was that they both had good families with loving > parents and were pretty much ungrateful. I know too many kids like that > in real life who rebel against familial love and then whine that no-one > loves/understands/what-have-you them.) While I deeply agree with the literary necessity of heroes not having a good home life, I have to object to reading of Tadrith as ungrateful. While Blade distinctly has issues and doesn't recognize the blessing of her parents, Tad seems more to be seeking ways to make his own name. He doesn't devalue the love of his father (or mother), but he wants to grow up and stand on his own two, er, four feet/soar on his own two wings. And Blade, similarly, has issues (well described) rebelling against familial love....but I think the book is about the resolution of those. My conception of _Silver G_ was that it's central question was, "What do you do when raised in the shadow of 'famous' parents?" (Yes, this is simlpistically put, but, hopefully, you see my drift). One more thing: maybe it's that kids need to learn to recognize love. I remember Savil or Lissa saying to Withen that it's a miracle Vanyel could recognize 'Lendel's love, because Withen had given Van such a mixed up picture of love. Please forgive any excessive vehemence, and write it off to defending Tad (and Blade). Yours while I wait for a firecat, Jenni. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 19:53:34 -0400 From: nathanh124-+AT+-juno.com (Nathan D Henderson) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: i'm new/crossbows/industry Message-ID: <19980810.195336.4454.0.NathanH124-+AT+-juno.com> I'm new to the list so hi. >Does Valdemar have the crossbow? I don't remember seeing it. They should. At the beginning of The Black Gryphon, Skan was shot down by crossbows and bolt guns. So you would think that they would have them.Urtho's people were more advanced before he died than Valdemar's people have ever been. Gun's will eventually be out of date as all weapons become so until then the accidents by children and killings on the street will have to be dealt with. a short message but my first, GryphonStorm(Nathan) _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 20:13:44 -0400 From: Greg Wooledge To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: magic/technology/fluff Message-ID: <19980810201344.F12859-+AT+-phoenix.local> Rhiannon Shadowsong (rhiannon13_-+AT+-hotmail.com) wrote: > When the train was first invented an ordinary > horse was faster and beat it in a race. The engines were eventually > improved, but the initial race was a flop. Companions are way faster > than that, even under ordinary circumstances. Yes, the Companions will still be able to outrun trains for several decades after the first railroad is built, at the very least. I think, however, that after enough railroads (or self-propelled vehicles) and communications are present, the role of the Heralds will have to change. Right now, Valdemar relies on the Heralds' circuit for basic communications as much as anything else; the widely separated towns have few other means of learning what's happening in the rest of the country. But with an increase in cross-country travel by the common people, as well as better long-distance communications, the Heralds may have to refine their role a bit. Currently, they do a little of everything; they'll have to become specialists in something. -- "Daddy, why do those people have to | Greg Wooledge use Microsoft Windows?" | wooledge-+AT+-kellnet.com "Don't stare, son; it's not polite." | http://www.kellnet.com/wooledge/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 18:32:08 -0700 From: bausch-+AT+-ruraltel.net (Lester D. Bausch) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: i'm new/crossbows/industry Message-ID: <35CF9F18.205-+AT+-ruraltel.net> Nathan D Henderson wrote: > > I'm new to the list so hi. > > >Does Valdemar have the crossbow? I don't remember seeing it. > > They should. At the beginning of The Black Gryphon, Skan was shot down by > crossbows and bolt guns. So you would think that they would have > them.Urtho's people were more advanced before he died than Valdemar's > people have ever been. > Gun's will eventually be out of date as all weapons become so until then > the accidents by children and killings on the street will have to be > dealt with. > > a short message but my first, > > GryphonStorm(Nathan) >I, like Nathan, am new, but have avidly been reading all the Misty comments. I have tried to come up with some comments of my own. But you are all answering any questions I could come up with. However, I do have one question? How do you determine what your "sign-on" name will be. I am trying to come up with one for me. Thanks, Faye - a Misty fan > _____________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 20:39:44 -0400 From: nathanh124-+AT+-juno.com (Nathan D Henderson) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: firebirds/suffering Message-ID: <19980810.203946.4454.1.NathanH124-+AT+-juno.com> in Oathblood the story wings of fire a firebird killed a man. in the book it said that he looked like he had been whipped by a red hot wire. my question is do firebirds become like a ball of fire or are they just red hot? I think vanyel suffered the most i mean he not only was denied love but he lost his true love to insanity his life improved but not after more suffering then i could ever endure. The quote, it is better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all, is bull vanyel suffered so much after Lendel's death than he almost succeded in taking his own life. Nyara did suffer but she ended up with love also. GRYPHON fanatic, GryphonStorm _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 20:49:26 EDT From: Paustinnew-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Mothers/CHILDREN Message-ID: In a message dated 8/10/98, 8:03:52 PM, mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk writes: <<> I could go on and on. Can anyone think of a main characters who > > had GOOD mothers? > >> Here's my $.02 -- I think somewhere Talia talks about how she would feel if something happened to her son (one of the later books where she's not a main character.) I read with interest one of the comments about kids who rebel against good parents. I agree that we hear a lot about the kids who rebel without a cause (to borrow a cliche), but a certain amount of rebellion is normal no matter how good the parents are. Of course -- good can be a relative term -- are parents who spank their children good? Some call it abuse -- others an acceptable (within limits) form of punishment. Still, seems that Misty does have a lot of characters who are just plain evil. In real life, how many people are really like that? Pam, who goes by Map and wishes you all the flavored chocolate sheep of your choice. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 21:04:18 -0400 From: nathanh124-+AT+-juno.com (Nathan D Henderson) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: turning in Message-ID: <19980810.210419.4454.5.NathanH124-+AT+-juno.com> just one question when do you guys(and girls) turn in? Gryphon Fanatic Gaurdian of the Plains, GryphonStorm _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 22:10:36 EDT From: LCM46-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: turning in Message-ID: In a message dated 8/10/98 10:04:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time, nathanh124-+AT+-juno.com writes: > just one question when do you guys (and girls) turn in? turn in??? Geez--I go to bed about midnight, Eastern Standard Time (I'm in NY), and am up and 'raring' to go by 7 or 8, since it's still summer vacation time. Since we're spread all over the world, it doesn't really matter, does it? I've been known to be online at 3 a.m., if I can't sleep, too! Or--what do we turn 'into'?? I turn into a raving, screaming, shrewish housewife if denied at least 6 hours sleep--how about you? Lorraine Goddess of Domesticity/Laundry Appreciator of Penguins "But I'm not dead yet!" MP/Holy Grail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 00:49:33 EDT From: Joleth9652-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: REALLY long braid! Message-ID: <7043eaed.35cfcd5f-+AT+-aol.com> Heyla! The reason this is so long is that I've been busy, and saving the interesting posts to respond to since around mid-july. So, going in chronological order, Greetings, Ayngel! Nice to see a pretty, new face around here. Just to contrast with the ones that are pretty old. (Sorry. You listsibs probably don't really warrant such pun-ishment.) On the Bard's Tale thread, bleah! Castle of Deception was actually the first work of Misty's I'd read, and it was good enough to convince me to (tying in with a different thread) read the arrows series, despite the horrible pink and purple 'horsey' covers, which raised more than a few eyebrows at school, and made my dad ask why I was reading romance novels. Ugh! Hideous things. On the subject of character similarities, I'd definitely be closest to Dirk. The phrase when someone (I can't remember who) was describing Talia's lifemate by guess work, something like "he's open, honest, and compassionate, and animals and small children trust him on sight" could very easily be describing me, and I've gone through almost the same thing that Dirk did with the member of the court who was out to get Kris. I'm also fairly similar to Skif in the early books. I can see some similarities between Drizzt and the Dune series, but not too many, one major difference being that there are more societies in dune, and almost all of the motivations are different. Salvatore IS a hack, but he's an entertaining hack, and I've met VERY few people who can grind their way through any of the Dune books after God Emperor. In all this talk about characters undergoing hardships, noone has even mentioned Kerowyn. True, she didn't put up with them for over a decade like the first half of Talia's life, but she got severly kicked around during the wintertime campaign before she got command of the Skybolts. Incompetant commanders, stupid orders, extremly shoddy equipment, friends dying left and right, and when she finally does escape from THAT situation, she is basically told she'll never work as a class merc' again, she spends a month or two working in a tavern where she's constantly tired, cold, and hungry, is almost raped, gets beat up, thrown in prison, and has nothing better to look forward to when she gets out until her friends show up (dues ex machina, anyone?) to save the day. It could partially have been the fact that I was kinda depressed when I first read the story, but that really hit me. The Black Cauldron was alright, and I'd never seen it before, so the cover on the copy of the book in our library had been taunting me for years, but it wasn't great. They had to try and wrap up too much compliated stuff too fast, and trying to turn the middle book of a series of 5 into a stand alone movie proably wasn't the greatest idea in the world. >Happy happy bounce bounce. Wonderful descriptive phrase. My far too active imagination, especially right after watching Gurgi in the Black Cauldron, took off with this, and I laughed for far long than you'd think was healthy. Could you please send me the copy of the "Last Straw" essay, Rebecca? I haven't read it, and it sounds fairly important. I'm going to have to look for Satanic, Versus. I liked the Di Tregarde stories. There is no such thing as reading too much, mut when you start gnawing on the books because you're upset, it might be time to take a bit of a break. I will be very upset if the Velgarth series moves very far into an industrial revolution. I have refrained from reading several no doubt very entertaining series', including one of Misty's, the Sword of Knowledge, with, I think, C J Cherryh, simply because it dealt with characters living in a time of industrial revolution, because the subject always depresses me. The magic always goes out of the world, literally or figuratively speaking, so those who would like to see how misty might be handling the topic of industrial revolution, you could always check out those books. I also would love to hear one of those prim/not really songs, so if anyone knows a place I could find one... Also, the description kindof reminds me of a song I heard where it leads you to complete the lines with rhymes that would be utterly obscene, and then uses some other word entirely. It's not at all Elizabethan, I think it's called Polka Dot Undies, but that was the first thing I thought of when reading this thread. As opposed to continuing on with Valdemar through it's possibly inevitable industrial revolution, she could always go backwards. Not only is there the Urthro plot that it seems everyone on this list wants to see, but I'm sure there's enough room in the timeline she's made to write hundreds of books before the Arrows trilogy without even overlapping. On Celtic rock type music, I suppose that...arrrgh! I saw them in concert for heavens sake. What's their name?! Aha! Tempest might be close to what you're looking for, umm...Ice. They have a drum set player, a sythesizer, an electric bass, an electric violin, and (are you ready for this?) an electric double-necked mandolin. I know the name's weird, but it sounds almost exactly like an electric guitar (to the tin ear of this bodhran player, anyway) and at least half of the songs they play have good celtic lyrics (most of the rest are instrumentals), and they don't get too bogged down with sticking to traditional rythyms. Unfortunately, none of them, as far as I know, is a practicing witch. But one of them is about 7 feet tall! Magic on Earth? I wish. If I ever see a ghost, or an aura, or levitation where I can be sure there's no tricks, or a demon, elf, fairy, gnome, I'll believe it (and I've looked). But until then, I'm a complete sceptic. Life is too complicated even when you assume all the natural laws work. When they are able to be broken, my head starts to hurt. That, and if I assume it is true, and am then disappointed, I get depressed. You do have to follow the wind in a balloon, but if you need to get somewhere, you just go up or down until you reach a layer where the wind is going the same direction you are. And, on that note, I shall leave you, because this post is already horrifically long, I'm sure you're tired of reading, and I KNOW I'm tired of typing. Zhai'Hellava Joel ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1680 **********************************