MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1683 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Reference to Celtic music by IceMaiden-+AT+-aol.com by Greg Wooledge 2) Re: Reference to Celtic music by IceMaiden-+AT+-aol.com by "Reginabean" 3) Re: braid~much fluff by "Jen_ Is_King" 4) Re: braid~much fluff by "JOHN E MORRIS" 5) Re: Re: really sorry, no Misty, just Black Caldron by Saberdrake-+AT+-aol.com 6) Owlflight, Riven Codex and Owlsight by "Judy L. Wood" 7) Fwd for Alexia, and a snip by "Raven Darkblade" 8) printing by Rainbow 9) Braid of many things by troll-+AT+-netcomuk.co.uk 10) Re: Katherine Kurtz/summer reading/OIB by edrucker-+AT+-ruraltel.net (Ed Rucker) 11) Re: Braid of many things by Stasia 12) Elements in Misty's books by Adrienne 13) Re: Mothers and password stolen by Elizabeth Hoffman 14) Re: braid~much fluff by Kiyomi Onogi <00konogi-+AT+-jasper.uor.edu> 15) magic/turning in/hair color by nathanh124-+AT+-juno.com (Nathan D Henderson) 16) Re: Elements in Misty's books by Kiyomi Onogi <00konogi-+AT+-jasper.uor.edu> 17) Re: Braid of many things by Jenni Halpin 18) Re: Braid of many things by Kenneth Allen Hyde 19) Literature by Kris Frye ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 21:33:00 -0400 From: Greg Wooledge To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Reference to Celtic music by IceMaiden-+AT+-aol.com Message-ID: <19980812213300.B19209-+AT+-phoenix.local> JenIsKing-+AT+-aol.com (JenIsKing-+AT+-aol.com) wrote: > and Enya (some of the music is > recognizable from commercials such as Crystal Light which featured her song > Sail Away (correct title?)) I believe that song is called "Orinoco Flow". No, I don't know why. Lady Sunhawk (leapermuldervamp-+AT+-hotmail.com) wrote: > Of course, I have no idea what gunpowder is (i think theres > carbon in there somewhere) Carbon, sulfur and saltpeter (potassium nitrate). The ratio has to be just right (but I don't remember the percentages). Didn't anyone else ever see the Star Trek episode "The Arena" where Kirk fights the Gorn and builds a cannon to shoot precious gems at it? C'mon, fess up, I know you've seen it! :-) AERDEN-+AT+-delphi.com (AERDEN-+AT+-delphi.com) wrote: > If you're gonna draw on the wall, do it behind the couch. Hey! Don't give my kids any ideas! ObMisty: I don't really think they have to worry about guns so much. It seems that Blood Magic is a much more fearsome and effective weapon. (At least, it makes a better fantasy plot -- and since the only things that happen in Valdemar are what Misty writes or permits others to write, you can rest assured that they'll be facing malicious magic rather than boring bullets for quite a while. ;-) -- "Daddy, why do those people have to | Greg Wooledge use Microsoft Windows?" | wooledge-+AT+-kellnet.com "Don't stare, son; it's not polite." | http://www.kellnet.com/wooledge/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 22:11:11 -0400 From: "Reginabean" To: Subject: Re: Reference to Celtic music by IceMaiden-+AT+-aol.com Message-ID: <199808130213.WAA15473-+AT+-smtp2.erols.com> > Greg Wooledge wrote: > > JenIsKing-+AT+-aol.com (JenIsKing-+AT+-aol.com) wrote: > > > and Enya (some of the music is > > recognizable from commercials such as Crystal Light which featured her song > > Sail Away (correct title?)) > > I believe that song is called "Orinoco Flow". No, I don't know why. > > (Please excuse my major snipping!) To the best of my knowledge, the song is called "Orinoco Flow" after a river in the UK named "Orinoco". I could very well be misinformed, but that is what I have been informed. I should also take this moment to introduce my newbie self! Hi! I haven't been lurking for to long, but here I am! :) Reginabean (Also, I am not used to actually posting anything so if I have committed any errors, please do not take offence. It was not intended. Thanks! :) ) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 19:54:30 PDT From: "Jen_ Is_King" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: braid~much fluff Message-ID: <19980813025436.22390.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> Hey, Everyone. zha'hai'allav'a kalistia firemyst wrote: < i'm sure i'm the only one who can read Huck Finn] once w/o stumbling over the dialects in my class...i just hate being forced into reading...always have...unless it's something i wanted to read and just didn't have time to> I read the book for high school too. I enjoyed a lot of the books I read as assigned reading but I have to agree. Making someone read a book for school sometimes put a negative feeling on the story all together. I think that everyone has different tastes and it's okay NOT to like a "classic" book. That doesn't mean that they can't appreciate other "classic" literature. << <> >> I have five turtles and they are all aquatic. Two are Floridan Cooters (green and yellow), one False Mississippi Map Turtle (tannish grey), one Eastern Painted turtle(orange and black), and the most common pet turtle: a Red Ear Slider (green and yellow with red "ear" markings). >From watching them grow from the sizes of a little larger than quarters, I can honestly saw they are one of the dumbest animals I have ever taken care of. They definitely bite the hand that feed them. But they are so fun to watch in their tank. They are pretty big now, the biggest being the Floridan Cooters (I didn't name them ) and they are curious about everthing. To my abosolute horror they dig up every water plant I put in the tank then procede to eat it. They are hard work but I wouldn't change them for the world. I can never train my turtles but I think that they have adequately trained me. On what kind of character I would be in a Misty book: Probably one that stays up all hours of the night and is grumpy all the next day because "normal" people decide all business hours should be in the daytime. And plus, they don't have Wal-Mart in Valdemar. (it's a colleg thing along with Jerry Springer...lot's of free time) But I guess being a tom-boy is a plus in a Misty book because a lot of the women kick some serious butt. One of my weird thoughts: Speaking of what type of characted we would be....is there anyone besides me that puts yourself into Misty stories? Allright, it's a little strange especially not something I would tell someone the moment I met them but it comes from when I was child and watched "The Last Unicorn." (incidently, I found out later it was a book first by Peter S. Beagle) I loved that story but I wanted to be the unicorn. So I would run around my backyard and pretend I was in the story. Misty's books are just like that...they spark my imagination and the simplicity of my childhood where I COULD be part of my fantasy stories. Alright, now that's everybody is staring...um, gotta go Jen Is King Note: I am the same as JenIsking-+AT+-aol.com but now I get all my Misty mail at Tamora_Lives-+AT+-hotmail.com. Feel free to email me personally at JenIsKing-+AT+-aol.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 01:55:38 -0400 From: "JOHN E MORRIS" To: Subject: Re: braid~much fluff Message-ID: <005001bdc67f$0075ac60$4e109cd1-+AT+-oemcomputer> >!!!!!)...i just despise them being forced on anyone, that's kinda what the shudder was >for I hate to sound preachy here, but your perception of this book being "forced" on you is way off. Education is one of the most important parts of our lives, yet we complain about it constantly. Read the books and enjoy them for the works that they are; appreciate the opportunities offered by our educational system and remember that a couple of generations ago, many people in the US didn't have the opportunity to progress to the point where they would be "forced" to read Mark Twain. If you plan on attending college and perhaps grad school, then I assure you that your classroom responsibilities will demand tasks far more onerous than the reading of Mark Twain. >The one thing that I do understand is that when someone, whether >it be a teacher, or whatever, MAKES a person read something or write >something that wasn't their idea, then that person views the assignment >as a CHORE. Once again: I don't feel any sympathy. As one of my college profs used to say: "If you can read, you can succeed." Teachers don't assign books just to piss you off. They assign them because the book is an important part of the educational process. >Velgarth isn't Earth, why would the ingrediants of gunpowder exist >there? Carbon, sulfur and Potassium Nitrate, also known as Saltpeter. We can assume that carbon exists, and should be fairly sure that sulfur exists, considering that Velgarath seems to mimic the physics of Earth. All the other elements exist, so why not sulfer? Saltpeter is one of the primary byproducts of weeks-old animal droppings (particularly bats), so we have to assume that it exists as well. >Well that is not entirely correct, long bows are as good against plate >armor as crossbows, and much easier to use. In that they didn't have the winch, etc...true. However, Long bows required a great deal more skill and strength than a crossbow. >I could recognice John E. Morris' writing without even looking at the >signature.. When do you give up, it is impossible to convince these >people, that fantasy isn't the only genre worth reading. I do agree with >you, but remember last time you tried, it didn't help then, and probably >won't help now. I'm not sure whether that's a good thing or a bad thing You might be right, however. That doesn't mean I have to stop trying... >I don't really think they have to worry about guns so much. >It seems that Blood Magic is a much more fearsome and effective weapon. >(At least, it makes a better fantasy plot -- and since the only things >that happen in Valdemar are what Misty writes or permits others to write, >you can rest assured that they'll be facing malicious magic rather than >boring bullets for quite a while. ;-) The difficulty being, give twenty fairly ticked off peasants some flintlocks and hide them behind a hill and even Falconsbane wouldn't stand a chance. Bloodmage or no, he's going to have a tough time reacting to something moving as fast as a musket ball. Takes almost no training, can't see it quickly enough to block. Gunpowder could put an end to mages, period. John E. Morris ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 01:59:37 EDT From: Saberdrake-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Re: really sorry, no Misty, just Black Caldron Message-ID: I saw the Black Caldron when I was a child. It was great then, and I'm sure everyone will like it. Remember why Disney banned their version of Black Caldron. Saberdrake ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 02:17:05 -0400 From: "Judy L. Wood" To: "mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk" Subject: Owlflight, Riven Codex and Owlsight Message-ID: <35D284E0.3D35980B-+AT+-BellSouth.Net> I stopped by B Dalton's today looking for Owlflight ( I had been thinking about getting it for a while-- finally decided I had to have it) It was not in. I checked Waldenbooks (I was at the mall not far to walk) they did not have it either. I had decided to leave and was walking back to the entrance nearest my car and decided to try B Dalton's again. The man at the counter checked the computer and said the paperback is coming out in Sept. The next book in the series Owlsight is also coming out in Sept (this is in US). I asked abut Riven Codex and he said it would be out b4 the end of this month. He asked if I wanted them to notify me when it is there. Of course I said yes. He said they get the books b4 the advertised date of release. He said if there is not a notice saying do not sale b4 the release date They will notify the date it comes in. When I get the message, I will notify list first thing. JW ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 23:57:46 PDT From: "Raven Darkblade" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Fwd for Alexia, and a snip Message-ID: <19980813065746.10683.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> The following is forwarded for Alexia: <> Also: Someone else wrote: <> It was banned? My understanding was that they were *going* to make it on video, but while they were putting it together they caame out with The Little Mermaid, and it was such a smash that they turned their attentions toward putting *it* out on video. However, I don't recall where I got this info, so I could be wrong. Zha'hai'allav'a, Raven Darkblade, Holy Hand of the Goddess of Elves, Card-Carrying Bitch, Renegade Sarcastic Person, Reluctant Romantic, Member of the Mistic Circle, Knight and Founding Member of the Order of Unsung Heroes, Advocator of Eldan, Champion of Kethra and Hyllarr, and Devotee of Maclyn; and Mor the raven, her familiar. abbykat-+AT+-hotmail.com http://www.angelfire.com/ky/Ashke/ http://dragonlance.justbecause.org/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 21:13:17 +0100 From: Rainbow To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: printing Message-ID: >Printing press >someone mentoined earlier that Valdmare had papermills. >if they have paper mills, they would most likely have printing press, because >unless they have scribes coming out of they ears, the only possable use of >paper mills is to support a printing industry. >also take Talia at the begining of arrows of the Queen, she would not be able >to afford a second/third hand book that was hand written. Very short message, but I'm SURE Ancar mentions in Winds about printing... *g* When he gets Falconsbane as a captive mage, I'm /sure/ some of the spells are printed... textedv anyone? 'If you want the Rainbow, _.-~-._ 'I ain't flawed, I'm just a you gotta put up with _.~ _ ~~~ _ ~._ diamond cut in a unique way.' the rain.' ,~ _ ~ -~- ~ _ ~, / /~ /~ RAINBOW ~\ ~\ \ ~Dolly Parton | | | |/-~-\| | | | ~ Tristan 'I don't take offence... I take revenge!' ~ M'lady (Wishbone) ZHAI'HELLEVA! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 12:33:58 +0100 (BST) From: troll-+AT+-netcomuk.co.uk To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Braid of many things Message-ID: <1998813123658541-+AT+-netcomuk.co.uk> Fwd. for Kalen of the OIB: >" Anyone who has read my story on my web page, could they please Email >me at uthro-+AT+-hotmail.com with their comments, as I am about to go into >re-write mode with it". > >Thanx > >Kalen [On Hiatus] > John E. Morris wrote: >I hate to sound preachy here, but your perception of this book being >"forced" on you is way off. Education is one of the most important parts >of our lives, yet we complain about it constantly. Read the books and enjoy >them for the works that they are; appreciate the opportunities offered by >our educational system and remember that a couple of generations ago, many >people in the US didn't have the opportunity to progress to the point where >they would be "forced" to read Mark Twain. If you plan on attending college >and perhaps grad school, then I assure you that your classroom >responsibilities will demand tasks far more onerous than the reading of >Mark Twain. Hear hear! That goes just as well for the UK(and probably a number of other countries as well)as for the US. Hell, the reason we're all on this list is because we share an interest in an author. Anyone who thinks reading a "chore" is perhaps in the wrong place? :) Certainly we all have different *tastes* in reading, but I would assume that everyone on this list enjoys reading in itself :) For whoever asked about animals: No animals here at Castle Troll at the moment. Had a cat for fifteen years, but he died a couple years ago. Many of my relatives, however, have assorted animals...one of my aunts has eighteen cats, five horses, two dogs and a variable number of goldfish(I think they fluctuate depending on how hungry the cats get :) ) Reginabean wrote: >To the best of my knowledge, the song is called "Orinoco Flow" after a >river in the UK named "Orinoco". I could very well be misinformed, but >that is what I have been informed. I'm in the UK, and there's no Orinoco river here, unless it's too small to appear on any of my maps(and I have LOTS of maps). There is however a fairly major river in Venezuela called the Orinoco. Maybe that's the one you're thinking of? Long way from the UK though :) John E Morris again: >Carbon, sulfur and Potassium Nitrate, also known as Saltpeter. We can >assume that carbon exists, and should be fairly sure that sulfur exists, >considering that Velgarath seems to mimic the physics of Earth. All the >other elements exist, so why not sulfer? Saltpeter is one of the primary >byproducts of weeks-old animal droppings (particularly bats), so we have to >assume that it exists as well. Carbon absolutely has to exist on Velgarth, for the simple reason that it's an integral part in carbohydrate. No carbon, no plants. No carbon, no humans. IIRC, all organic life forms on Earth are carbon-based to some extent(Liz, or any other biologist, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong): only place I've yet come across carbon-free organisms is in Star Trek. Saltpetre(yes, I know it's spelled saltpeter in American :) ) would be quite likely to exist too. Nitrogen has to exist for a "normal" human-breathable atmosphere, and if carbon and nitrogen both exist on Velgarth I think we can assume potassium will exist too. Same can be applied to sulphur. Hmm, can anyone find textevd of volcanic eruptions/activity on Velgarth? I've no time to look through all the books right now :P If there are, we can confirm there's definitely sulphur. Trollhugs and chocolate sheep to all, Muranog Shadowbane Troll Adept Knight of Fluff OIB Member of the Mistic Circle and his bondmate Sable, the giant black war sheep(also OIB) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 07:52:52 -0500 From: edrucker-+AT+-ruraltel.net (Ed Rucker) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Katherine Kurtz/summer reading/OIB Message-ID: <35D2E1A3.CEA02785-+AT+-ruraltel.net> Bright the Day! A while back I was asking about Katherine Kurtz lists and sites and a couple of people asked me to send them any info that I found. Well, I did find a good one - but I also deleted the requests! So, apologies for the non-Misty but here's what I found: http://home.btconnect.com/happy-hamsters/haldanes/index.htm and a newsgroup called alt.books.deryni ObMisty: I loaned out my LHM last year and she wound up getting her own copies. I noticed that the quality of the covers has deteriorated since I bought my copies a decade ago. Mine are raised (embossed?) and the silver parts have a glitter to them. Anyone the reason for the change? Wind to thy wings, Minstrel Clarienne Lady in Green ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 09:49:16 -0400 From: Stasia To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Braid of many things Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980813094916.00c1ac48-+AT+-mail.gte.net> Yes, all, I still live. And I thought I'd pop out of lurker mode for just a minute to respond to the topic of reading... here goes... At 12:51 PM 8/13/98 +0100, you wrote: >John E. Morris wrote: >>I hate to sound preachy here, but your perception of this book being >>"forced" on you is way off. Education is one of the most important parts >>of our lives, yet we complain about it constantly. Read the books and enjoy >>them for the works that they are; appreciate the opportunities offered by >>our educational system and remember that a couple of generations ago, many >>people in the US didn't have the opportunity to progress to the point where >>they would be "forced" to read Mark Twain. If you plan on attending college >>and perhaps grad school, then I assure you that your classroom >>responsibilities will demand tasks far more onerous than the reading of >>Mark Twain. > >Hear hear! That goes just as well for the UK(and probably a number of >other countries as well)as for the US. Hell, the reason we're all on >this list is because we share an interest in an author. Anyone who >thinks reading a "chore" is perhaps in the wrong place? :) Certainly >we all have different *tastes* in reading, but I would assume that >everyone on this list enjoys reading in itself :) I've been reading the posts on this subject for awhile now, and I had to put my 2 cents in. I know I had a problem getting through any book I was told I had to read in HS and college. The problems wasn't so much that I thought of reading as a chore, as much as #1) I hate being told WHAT to read. Suggestions are one thing, but telling me that I MUST read Huckleberry Finn or Crime and Punishment or Gulliver's Travels or Midsummer Night's Dream or anything else that a teacher/proffesor told me I had to read grated me the wrong way, so I looked upon it as more a chore than as I pleasure. And, #2) I like to take MY time reading what I'm reading, having the choice to finish it when I want, whether it be in a day or in 3 weeks because I'm taking my time with it. I don't think I am the only one that feels this way. And, honestly, I don't think that it's the books that are the problem. There were 1/2 a dozen books that I never managed to get through in HS or college > that I managed to pick up and enjoy years later. Yes, the opportunities to read in school are a wonderful thing, and it opens up a whole new world to those who have never had the desire to read, but I also think that to help avoid the "forced" reading stigma, a "suggested reading list" with tests based on the books on the list and required book reports or something of that nature wouldn't be a bad way to go. For example, the students would have to read 8 books off this list sometime throughout the year, go to the teacher when they are finished and get a test that was written for that particular novel and take it, and also turn in some type of report about the book. If the students wanted to read more than the 8 books, those books & tests & reports would go toward extra credit. My Senior AP English teacher did that as extra credit, but I don't see why it couldn't also be used as a regular classroom exercise. The rest of the classroom time would be devoted to "textbook" stuff... short stories, poems, etc of the textbook. This way, the student wouldn't feel like he is reading something he really doesn't want to, in a forced amount of time. The students would have some say in their education. It's just an idea I've been kicking around, so please don't hang me in effigy if you don't agree. ObMisty: Ummmm.... ummmm... I just picked up Children of the Night and Jinx High and I'm reading them for the first time. So far, I'm really enjoying them. I'm about 1/2 way through Children. Now comes the question... how much am I missing by not reading Burning Water first???? Amber, who often goes by Stasia _____________________________________________________________________ "What is a friend? A single soul dwelling in two bodies." -- Aristotle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 08:54:13 -0700 From: Adrienne To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Elements in Misty's books Message-ID: <199808131543.IAA02786-+AT+-smtp01.primenet.com> At 12:51 PM 8/13/98 +0100, troll-+AT+-netcomuk.co.uk wrote: >John E Morris again: >>Carbon, sulfur and Potassium Nitrate, also known as Saltpeter. We can >>assume that carbon exists, and should be fairly sure that sulfur exists, >>considering that Velgarath seems to mimic the physics of Earth. All the >>other elements exist, so why not sulfer? Saltpeter is one of the primary >>byproducts of weeks-old animal droppings (particularly bats), so we have to >>assume that it exists as well. > >Carbon absolutely has to exist on Velgarth, for the simple reason that it's >an integral part in carbohydrate. No carbon, no plants. No carbon, no >humans. IIRC, all organic life forms on Earth are carbon-based to >some extent(Liz, or any other biologist, feel free to correct me if I'm >wrong): only place I've yet come across carbon-free organisms is in Star >Trek. Saltpetre(yes, I know it's spelled saltpeter in American :) ) >would be quite likely to exist too. Nitrogen has to exist for a >"normal" human-breathable atmosphere, and if carbon and nitrogen >both exist on Velgarth I think we can assume potassium will exist too. >Same can be applied to sulphur. Hmm, can anyone find textevd of volcanic >eruptions/activity on Velgarth? I've no time to look through all the >books right now :P If there are, we can confirm there's definitely >sulphur. > Can a chemist answer this question? :) The definition of "organic" is a compound that contains carbon plus, at least one of hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen. A person could make up their own elements and how they interact in fantasy, but I don't think Misty went through all that trouble. So I agree with John and Muranog that the humans/animals/plants in Velgarth are chemically the same as those on Earth. I can't think of anything that potassium is needed for, but it is found in many fruits (best known in bananas), so if Velgarth has fruits, it probably has potassium. Here's one thing I've wondered about (and it's ObMisty): the Tayladras have hot springs in their Vales, correct? Well, natural hotsprings usually smell like sulfur (I've never been to one that didn't). [Sulfur smells like rotten eggs, for those who aren't familiar with the stench.] First of all, did the magically made hot springs also smell like sulfur? If so, how did they stand it? Wouldn't the smell get caught in the Vale and stink the whole place up? These aren't really meant to be answered, they're just some thoughts I've had. Adrienne ******************** Priestess of OOPS Watcher of the Mistic Circle: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/6543/ Owner of the Mickey Zucker Reichert Page: http://members.xoom.com/renshai/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 16:56:38 +0100 (GMT Daylight Time) From: Elizabeth Hoffman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Mothers and password stolen Message-ID: Attempt number 2 to send this. I'm going to come in on the side of whoever said bad mothers are more noticeable than good ones. But equally Heralds with bad parents are more noticeable than those with good ones. Theres Dirk's parents, with the large close knit family who took Kris in as one of their own. When Talia has her what a Herald is lesson the son of two of the Heralds discusses what his parents told him. And when it comes to the holidays most of her fellow trainees go back to family, come to think of it it sounds like Talia makes an ok mother. Kethry and Tarma, apart from Kerowyn's mother they seem to have been great parents. Could anyone who had what appeared to be an email from me from about midday Friday until now please contact me at E.G.Hoffman-+AT+-soton.ac.uk Computing Services thinks the entire University password files got nicked on Friday. We were disconnected from the net that afternoon when it was noticed so nothing should have gone through on my old password, but.... Well the Sunday before the entire University got a spoof email that appeared to come from the director of computing services, given the contents if you got an email DO NOT OPEN IT. Yes it was that bad. Thanks Liz Hoffman E.G.Hoffman-+AT+-soton.ac.uk ---------------------- Elizabeth Hoffman E.G.Hoffman-+AT+-soton.ac.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 09:18:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Kiyomi Onogi <00konogi-+AT+-jasper.uor.edu> To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: braid~much fluff Message-ID: > I hate to sound preachy here, but your perception of this book being > "forced" on you is way off. Education is one of the most important parts of > our lives, yet we complain about it constantly. Read the books and enjoy > them for the works that they are; appreciate the opportunities offered by > our educational system and remember that a couple of generations ago, many > people in the US didn't have the opportunity to progress to the point where > they would be "forced" to read Mark Twain. If you plan on attending college > and perhaps grad school, then I assure you that your classroom > responsibilities will demand tasks far more onerous than the reading of Mark > Twain. > > >The one thing that I do understand is that when someone, whether > >it be a teacher, or whatever, MAKES a person read something or write > >something that wasn't their idea, then that person views the assignment > >as a CHORE. > > Once again: I don't feel any sympathy. As one of my college profs used to > say: "If you can read, you can succeed." Teachers don't assign books just to > piss you off. They assign them because the book is an important part of the > educational process. Yes you have raised a good point, and even though I greatly enjoy reading and the discusion of books I feel that many english teachers are so concerned with finding subliminal messages in books that they practically invent some interpretations. If you read Mark Twains notes at the begining of Huck Finn he emphatically states that it is just a story, not some cosmic battle between good and evil, or an attempt to decry social depravity. In fact he warns against anallysis of his book and threatens to sue!!! Another book over analyized in my opinion is Moby Dick, almost the entire book reads like a manual on how to hunt and kill whales. I think english teachers would be better off assigning a tale of two cites, which actually was written to reflect the times and send a message instead of trying to ascribe their own motives to books like Huck Finn, which while a good book, sould remain in the pleasure reading category, or at least not be so overly annalyzed. ObMisty-...For people who want to read owlflight before it comes out in paper back you might want to try the SFBC, I believe they sell it for around $10. Also I noticed something about another Owl book in someones message, does anyone know anything about it other than the title? till next time, Princess ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 13:20:33 -0400 From: nathanh124-+AT+-juno.com (Nathan D Henderson) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: magic/turning in/hair color Message-ID: <19980813.122837.3358.0.NathanH124-+AT+-juno.com> Here's my 2 cents on the magic thing. I believe in magic if you didn't there's just some stuff in life that wold be unexplainable. like sometimes i'll be dreaming something and then like a weak later it happens almost like foresight. the turning in question was stupid to ask because we live around the world and i apologize. Wintershard said that Van died his hair black but i don't remember when that happened i don't remember Elspeth dying her hair either could you tell me which books they died their hair in. people keep saying Elspeth and Vanyel didn't live near a heartstone but they did Valdemar has a heartstone remember. sorry again, GryphonStorm _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 09:30:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Kiyomi Onogi <00konogi-+AT+-jasper.uor.edu> To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Elements in Misty's books Message-ID: > Can a chemist answer this question? :) I can try :) The definition of "organic" is a > compound that contains carbon plus, at least one of hydrogen, oxygen, or > nitrogen. A person could make up their own elements and how they interact > in fantasy, but I don't think Misty went through all that trouble. So I > agree with John and Muranog that the humans/animals/plants in Velgarth are > chemically the same as those on Earth. I can't think of anything that > potassium is needed for, but it is found in many fruits (best known in > bananas), so if Velgarth has fruits, it probably has potassium. An organic compound in general is anything containing carbon and a hydrogen atom, as far as I know, and I've looked at hundreds of organic compounds, they all have at least one hydrogen atom. Also organic compounds usually have carbon chains, though not all of them do like methane(CH4) and methanol(CH3O). Remember that if all you have is carbon and oxygen that will for CO2 or CO3, and that carbon and nitrogen will form CN which I believe is cyanide, or something that sounds simillar. None of these compounds are organic. Some people use Carbon as a center for some metal configurations like the Bucky Balls that won the Noble Prize and those are usually called organometalics. I hope this helps. I may have left somethings out, Organic is not my strength so feel free to correct or add to what I've said. Going back to the mother's thread what do you think that Urthro's (sp) mother was like? He did seem very concerned with his gryphons being good parents. Any Idea's? till next time, Princess ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 09:32:50 -0700 From: Jenni Halpin To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Braid of many things Message-ID: <35D31528.9F5-+AT+-uor.edu> Stasia said: "but I also think that to help avoid the 'forced' reading stigma, a 'suggested reading list' with tests based on the books on the list and required book reports or something of that nature wouldn't be a bad way to go. " I'd agree, EXCEPT (and this is a big one, which you even approached) that you thereby neatly axe the majority of the possibility of class discussion. Despite the fact that such discussion serves in part to let people "get away with" (read: punish people with an unnoticed hole in their lives which is shaped as that very book) not reading certain books, it also deepens one's understanding (and often appreciation) of the text. Look at us: *G* a prime example of getting more out of the text by 'talking' with others who've read them. ------------------------------ King Jen said: "is there anyone besides me that puts yourself into Misty stories? Allright, it's a little strange especially not something I would tell someone the moment I met them but it comes from when I was child and watched "The Last Unicorn." (incidently, I found out later it was a book first by Peter S. Beagle) I loved that story but I wanted to be the unicorn. So I would run around my backyard and pretend I was in the story. Misty's books are just like that...they spark my imagination and the simplicity of my childhood where I COULD be part of my fantasy stories." Remember Talia at the very beginning of _Arrows of the Queen_? She puts herself into the stories too. And what is the desire many of us share to be in Velgarth, or to count as friends those characters whom we love, but another way of putting ourselves into the story? I still remember sitting in a fourth grade classroom (back in the dark ages) re-reading _A Wrinkle in Time_ and utterly dead to the world. While I have since learned to read in stolen moments (say, stuck in stop and go traffic), there's never been anything like being so deeply inside a book that it takes a deliberate, ungentle, intrusion from the 'real' world to return me to it. ------------------------------ John E. Morris wrote: "The difficulty being, give twenty fairly ticked off peasants some flintlocks and hide them behind a hill and even Falconsbane wouldn't stand a chance. Bloodmage or no, he's going to have a tough time reacting to something moving as fast as a musket ball. Takes almost no training, can't see it quickly enough to block. Gunpowder could put an end to mages, period." Again, the tenor of my reply is "yes, but." In this case, wasn't there a comment made (by Savil) in the orchard at Forst Reach to the effect that Vanyel (or another mage?) hadn't shielded himself against physical attacks? If so, the inference I've always made was that such shielding was POSSIBLE, if, perhaps, expensive to maintain. And, here's a thought, what's the physics of a mage-bolt anyway? I've always conceptualized them as energy. A correlary to this would be that they move at the speed of light, wouldn't they? ------------------------------ > > If you were a character in one of Misty's books, what peeves or faults would you have? << I'd be emotionally volatile. Perhaps even embarassingly so. Why? Because her characters so much more often seem to seek the opposite extreme (Talia hiding her emotions, particularly when she first arrives at the collegium; Vanyel's ice-dream and his walls of seeming unconcern, before they're broken/he chooses to break them; Kero's ability to put essentials and employment before emotion {love}). And it would be fun to live on the outside of my skin, to share joys, sorrows, anger, passion, and madness with the world. An exhilarating experience, if a somewhat risky one: IMHO, even Firesong is not outre in such a manner. ------------------------------ Finally, is anybody else almost completely unable to get their mind off of "Dance Track" (central character Isadora Duncan)? [which I found in _Fiddler Fair_] I don't know just what it is, but the tale compels me. yours while i wait for a firecat, jenni. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 12:40:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Kenneth Allen Hyde To: Misty Lackey List Subject: Re: Braid of many things Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Aug 1998 troll-+AT+-netcomuk.co.uk wrote: > John Morris wrote: > >I hate to sound preachy here, but your perception of this book being > >"forced" on you is way off. [snip] > > Hear hear! That goes just as well for the UK(and probably a number of > other countries as well)as for the US. Hell, the reason we're all on > this list is because we share an interest in an author. Anyone who > thinks reading a "chore" is perhaps in the wrong place? :) I have to disagree here. This is a list for people who enjoy the works of a particular author. Anyone who thinks that being forced to read books against their will is unpleasant has as much right to be here as someone who enjoys being forced to read books. And yes, I definitely agree that it is a case of being "forced." I have yet to meet a teacher of "English" who says "Okay, here is a book. If you feel like reading it, do so. If you don't, you don't have to." There is no optionality, and there is punishment meted out for failing to read the book. Which pretty much sounds like "forcing" to me. Quite frankly, I consider it presumptuous in the extreme, and very short-sighted, on the part of the education system to force students to read *particular* books, simply because they are part of the Canon (I'm going to leave aside my objections to the "canon" approach to literature, since it is neither here nor there for this topic). I know of exactly one person who learned to like reading from such an experience (my sister, who reads 19th century Russian novels for pleasure). On the other hand, I know large numbers of people who were so turned off of reading by being forced to read books that they did not enjoy that, to this day, they refuse to even consider reading for pleasure. Clearly, this is not a desirable result. And there are even larger numbers of people, probably, who love to read, but did not enjoy assigned readings at all, and were happy to get free of the system that required them. And who now think of "literature" as something horrid. Given the negative attitudes toward reading and literature that are being created and strengthened by this approach, I can't imagine why it is still used. I love to read, but I only read things that I enjoy (in one way or another). That means that I read books either for pleasure, or because they are important to my academic studies, or they appeal to me on some level (some histories, etc). If they don't do one of those three things, I don't enjoy reading them and I resent being forced to read them. Personally, I consider myself quite fortunate that I'm no longer in a situation where people feel the need to force me to read books "for my own good." Even academically, I am the one who decides which books to read. That is one the best things about graduate school, really. You read books because they are relevant and because they interest you, not because they are "assigned" as canonical readings. > I'm in the UK, and there's no Orinoco river here, unless it's too > small to appear on any of my maps(and I have LOTS of maps). There > is however a fairly major river in Venezuela called the Orinoco. > Maybe that's the one you're thinking of? Long way from the UK though :) Orinoco Flow is not exactly about the Orinoco River in Venezuela, although it does mention the river by name. It's mostly about sailing and freedom and escaping the pressures of a routinized life. May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd Councilor of Mist Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me //www.ling.udel.edu/hyde/prof/ken.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 10:01:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Kris Frye To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Literature Message-ID: On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, Stasia wrote: > I like to take MY time reading what I'm reading, having > the choice to finish it when I want, whether it be in a day or in 3 weeks > because I'm taking my time with it. I don't think I am the only one that > feels this way. You certainly aren't the only one who feels this way. To take my college freshman humanities class for an example, it was extremely frustrating sometimes when we covered works such as Euripedes or Sophocles in only one or two class periods before we had to move onto the next work. There just wasn't any time to go into depth about much of anything. However, the flip side of it was that I was exposed to an incredible amount of literature that I probably otherwise wouldn't have read. Did I finish everything I was assigned in college? No way. But now I have a great reading list that I can go back to and take the time to really relish. > I also think that to help avoid the "forced" reading stigma, a > "suggested reading list" with tests based on the books on the list and > required book reports or something of that nature wouldn't be a bad way > to go. The problem with having a reading list in the place of everyone reading the same thing, is that classroom discussion would suffer. In all the lit classes that I was ever in, the whole point of the class was not in the initial reading of the material, but in the discussion that it would generate in class. When you have 15-20 people reading the same thing, there are going to be 15-20 interpretations that can be discussed in class. And from this discussion, you can really grow in your own understanding of the text much more than if you had simply read it and maybe talked to the professor about it. Books like Huck Finn are incredibly significant in our society. It would be doing them a great injustice not to take the time to explore them. Serious discussions about things with your peers is the best path to understanding. So programs like you were suggesting are great for extra credit work for books that the class doesn't have time to discuss, but I think the class would lack a lot if people weren't able to discuss what they were planning on writing a paper on. I do agree with you that sometimes assigned reading isn't exactly fun. But when you're a student, your job is to stretch your mind. This sometimes means reading stuff that you wouldn't otherwise read. Think of it this way... after you grind your way through something heavy like Joyce's Ulysses, brain candy like Misty seems extra sweet and delicious and something to be savored. :) --Laire __________________________________________________________________________ | Kris Frye | "Subvert the Dominant Paradigm!" | | kfrye-+AT+-reed.edu | http://www.reed.edu/~kfrye | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1683 **********************************