MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1693 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: A bit of humor for all and a question... by "Kethryvis" 2) Re: mothers, music, literature & a question by Dainestar-+AT+-aol.com 3) Re: Books adn Fluffy IRC by Dainestar-+AT+-aol.com 4) putting yourself into stories by "marty l. adkins" 5) Re: Very tiny kinda braid by "Nelson Greenslade" 6) Re: New Misty books by Dancekbg-+AT+-aol.com 7) Re: A bit of humor for all and a question... by Tensen 8) Re: mothers, music, literature & a question by Matt Bowerman 9) gomen! by "Nelson Greenslade" 10) long braided return from lurkdom by florian-+AT+-gulf.net (Florian) 11) oops by florian-+AT+-gulf.net (Florian) 12) Re: oops by "Lady Sunhawk" 13) Re: putting yourself into stories/books by Joanna Lee 14) Re: putting yourself into stories, Owlflight by Katie 15) Braid o' much stuff by Jenni Halpin 16) [Fwd: Fwd: RJR ad (fwd)] by "Judy L. Wood" 17) MIST: Re: [Fwd: Fwd: RJR ad (fwd)] by Kenneth Allen Hyde 18) How I put myself into a book! by bausch-+AT+-ruraltel.net (Lester D. Bausch) 19) Re: putting yourself into stories by Jeffery Kuebler ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 16:50:38 -0700 From: "Kethryvis" To: Subject: Re: A bit of humor for all and a question... Message-ID: <19980820000013048.AAA124-+AT+-Shipping-1.it.inreach.com> I have sung Kerowyn's Ride at several Bardic Circles I have attended and its a very awesome song, if I do say so myself. :) (and I'm trying to find someone to sing "That Song" with!) I'm also learning The Shadow Lover to sing sometime in the near future. If you get a copy of the Firebird catalog there are Cds upon CDs and tapes filled with Misty's songs, both Velgarth and non-Velgarth. There are 2 collections from the Heralds of Valdemar trilogy, one for LHM, two for Tarma and Kethry, one for Kero , and there are 3 other Misty collections with mixed Velgarth and non-velgarth songs. (If you're looking for Kero's Ride its on Magic, Moondust and Melencholy IIRC, but I'm not very happy with that version of the song) The HoV cds are mostly songs written from the POV of one of the characters..its all the songs listed in the back of the books, IIRC. Other than that...even the books don't go into a lot of cultural detail about the other countries . *I* would like to hear some of the songs from the Mage Wars..and some from the Hawkbrothers and Shin'a'in also. -Kethryvis too many affiliations to list :) <'sides the fact that I can't remember 'em all...> ---------- From: Jeffery Kuebler To: kethryvis-+AT+-reachme.net Subject: Re: A bit of humor for all and a question... Date: Wednesday, August 19, 1998 4:36 PM At 10:43 PM 8/19/98 +0100, you wrote: >Hello Everyone! >I wrote this for the Mistic Circle List and it got me to thinking about >what Bard's do sing about in Velgarth, especially outside of Valdemar (where >they surely sing great paeans to Vanyel....)? I mean I've heard of some >Valdemar ballads, and the song that Tarma so hates... but I wonder if anyone >has heard of aught else? > >Carrach === As a Bardic Trainee is it any suprise that I might take a guess at your question? The Holderkin Sheep Song is originally from Karse (as are the Holderkin). "Threes" is a song about Tarma and Kethry, but it isn't "That Song". Acctually, there are a lot of songs that originate from Rethwellan. "Kerowyn's Ride" was mentioned somewhere in "Queen's Own", and then there are the songs form the Shin'a'in. I hope this has answered your question, at least in part. ===== Zhai'helleva, ~Astreia, the (sort of) Bardic Trainee ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 21:28:04 EDT From: Dainestar-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: mothers, music, literature & a question Message-ID: <32d7a970.35db7ba5-+AT+-aol.com> << > As for "A wrinkle in time", it was band because of "implications of > Witchcraft" what ever that is supposed to mean. By the way loved the > book! :-) > :::gasps with horror::: Not WITCHCRAFT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ......:::sez the little newly-initiated Wiccan for whom that book is one of few all-time favorites::: Goodbye. -Daine ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 21:31:33 EDT From: Dainestar-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Books adn Fluffy IRC Message-ID: <95520c71.35db7c76-+AT+-aol.com> << Another really good author is Robin McKinnely. I loved her story "The Blue Sword". >> Anyone read any of her others- Hero and the Crown, for one, Beauty, The Door in the Hedge, and The Outlaws of Sherwood? She's cool. Daine ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 21:38:39 -0400 From: "marty l. adkins" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: putting yourself into stories Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980819213839.006a3f44-+AT+-pop.mindspring.com> I think enough of us do this to make it worthwhile to talk about exactly *how* we put ourselves into [Misty's] stories. Do you become a certain character, feeling what that person feels? Or do you put *yourself* in as an extra character, as Talia did at the beginning of the first Arrows book? I tend to sort of hover empathically over the main perspective character, sharing feelings and some sensations, but not identity. I'm absolutely *there*, as far as being completely immersed in the story, needing rude interruptions to bring me "back to earth", etc. I'm no longer aware of being me, but I'm not anyone in the story either. It's rather like an immersion experience [in both linguistic and aquatic senses], being aware of and experiencing some of the feelings, but not participating in the action directly. Think of it as a sort of "hovering empathic vrondi" perspective. Perhaps Ralph Waldo Emerson put it best. In one of his transcendentalist poems [which we had to read in high school], he talks about being in nature, looking at it to such an extent that it becomes part of you and you become part of it. "I become a transparent eyeball," he says, the best metaphor I've found for being able to see all around and yet within at the same time. Has anyone experienced something similar? Jerrie, the dyed-in-chocolate transcendentalist. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 23:17:08 -0300 From: "Nelson Greenslade" To: Subject: Re: Very tiny kinda braid Message-ID: <01bdcbe0$a1e51660$LocalHost-+AT+-epzfbrwg> <> Sure I did, and I think we're well on the road to success!! Have you ever noticed how in all those apocalyptical movies, it's always America and Europe that's attacked by aliens or about to be hit by a meteor or whatever? Canada seems to remain untouched....mwahahahaha!!! Elsa Proud Canadian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 23:12:02 EDT From: Dancekbg-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: New Misty books Message-ID: <148e671b.35db9403-+AT+-aol.com> Windy feels stupid, but I can't find a synopis -anywhere- for Owlflight. Could someone fill me in? Thanks! ~ Kalissa Winddancer ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 23:44:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Tensen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: A bit of humor for all and a question... Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Aug 1998, Kethryvis wrote: > If you get a copy of the Firebird catalog net? I forget> there are Cds upon CDs and tapes filled with Misty's songs, > both Velgarth and non-Velgarth. > You can go to http://www.firebirdarts.com or http://www.darkquest.com (blantant plug, since I just got approved to carry the music) _-Tensen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 22:43:48 -0500 From: Matt Bowerman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: mothers, music, literature & a question Message-ID: <1308551870-66158602-+AT+-equinox.net> At 03:21 AM 8/20/98 +0100, you wrote: > ><< > As for "A wrinkle in time", it was band because of "implications of > > Witchcraft" what ever that is supposed to mean. By the way loved the > > book! :-) > > >:::gasps with horror::: Not WITCHCRAFT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > >.....:::sez the little newly-initiated Wiccan for whom that book is one of >few all-time favorites::: It has been many many years since I have read that book and it is wonderful... I never thought of witchcraft in relation to it, but the years may have dimmed my memory. As an illastration about peoples conceptions of withcraft, I thought I would pass this little tidbit along from the author Silver Ravenwolf. I found it very interesting. >EXCERPT OF: >http://www.silverravenwolf.com/what's.htm > >August 11th > >The Camel Advertisement: > >It has been brought to my attention by several fans that my book "To >Stir A Magick Cauldron" has appeared in at least three popular American >magazines in a Camel cigarette advertisement where three attractive >women are sticking pins in a doll to get back at a boyfriend over a >shattered romance. These magazines are Glamour, Rolling Stone, and >Mirabella. Neither Llewellyn World Wide nor I have given permission for >the book to be used in this ad. We are currently looking into the legal >ramifications of this problem. In the meantime, I would appreciate it >if you would write about your displeasure of the advertisement to: > >1) The magazine that you saw the ad in, telling them of your >displeasure, and asking that now they've allowed this advertiser to buy >space, could they find space for a legitimate article on Wicca. > >2) Write to the company that manufactures Camel cigarettes. I will >research the address for you and post it. > >Please pass the word about this ad, encourage your friends to visit this >site so that they can read my statement, and ask your non-techie friends >to write, too. Thank you. > >Silver RavenWolf > ******************************** Silverwind silverwind-+AT+-earthpath.com ******************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 03:54:55 -0300 From: "Nelson Greenslade" To: "Misty" Subject: gomen! Message-ID: <01bdcc07$702740e0$LocalHost-+AT+-epzfbrwg> Sorry! That wasn't intended for the list!!! Elsa, very embarrassed ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 05:12:46 -0600 From: florian-+AT+-gulf.net (Florian) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: long braided return from lurkdom Message-ID: ohio (japanese for good morning, wish I could type in kanji) Someone's post caught my eye, but I forgot whose, seems we either have anime otaku on here like me, or a few people who speak Japanese. I'm learning in my own way, at the rate I'm going, I'll be able to string together a sentance in a year or so. Anyway, some of the posts on here have gotten so intellectual that I'm forwarding the good stuff to a good friend of mine so I can have more fuel for our debates. I haven't been on in a long time due to work. Gomen. I'm still making a synopsis of indus. rev thread. I'm going to send the good stuff to Dorothy Heydt when I remember to write to her again. On the subject of books banned and books you are forced to read, remember this: 1) If anyone ever tells you not to read a book for your own good, go out, buy a copy, read it, just don't get caught. Some of the best literature ever written by free thinkers is taboo. Especially in the south. My mother didn't know I'd read most of Jean M. Auel's books (they're basically well written bodice rippers). 2) and this is a NC 17 answer, it doesn't apply to you young kids. If you have one you have to analyze look for two things, a sexual metaphor and a Christ figure. That will get you through Hemmingway without making you cut your wrists. Oh, and read Flannery O'Conner's short stories if you have to pick, they're delightful and easy to anylize with a pocket New Testament. 3) Remember, unless its Hemmingway, not EVERYTHING has symbolism. Remind your instructor that sometimes people say things because it sounds nice, and it means exactly what it means. Teachers/professors are human, and they too can err. Just because they have a degree doesn't make them total experts. Okay, on to gunpowder: 1)Nothing would prevent the people in Misty's books from discovering gunpowder, I think. I'm surprized it hadn't arrived with the lost clans in the first place. The Twain won't intervene like referee's, or they would have stopped the Karsite war. 2) Gunpowder isn't the ultimate weapon, neither is magic. Prolly the only ultimate is the A bomb, and we aren't up to that stage of development yet. Hopefully someone, prolly from Valdemar, would wake up and realize that the Bomb isn't worth even researching. The A bomb was an Earth result of an Earth struggle for ballance of power and an American solution to a Balkan based war. While there is political tension on Velgarth, it isn't the bitter timeless European/Western struggle that we humans find today. And besides, Misty wouldn't write about that, fantasy is supposed to be a bit upbeat at least. We live under threat of WW3 every day, no way she's gonna put that tension into a piece of work thats supposed to make you *forget* your troubles. Ack, so much to say, so little patience on your part, readers. Blame it on my love of both lit and Anthro, I love debate on cultural changes. I'm gonna get outta your hair now and finish reading my mail. Coffee ice cream flavored sheep, (mmm coffee) to all, hiya newbies, welcome to the insane asylum. Florian PS. Finished reading Gabriel Garcia Marquez "A Hundred Years of Solitude" recommended to all over 17, but don't read it if you're alone. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 05:50:36 -0600 From: florian-+AT+-gulf.net (Florian) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: oops Message-ID: Gomen I didn't mean to post about lit after the subject had been tabled. I don't get my mail every day, I have 3 groups I'm in, so I'm pretty well backed up on it. If anyone would ever love to get into a shouting match with me about lit, mail me personally, I love debate. Misty: About villans, I would have to say the best villian so far was the Mage Storms. I know that's anthropomorphasizing them, but it was one plotline that didn't follow the tried and true villian set up of Misty's work. Most of her villians till then Ma'ar to Ancar, had all been the same, overconfident blood mages, they did something dumb and it was their downfall. If only Hitler fell so easy, we might have a higher Jewish population today. (offside comment, anyone see Saving Private Ryan? Good movie, but little gory. Great way to show that there is *nothing* glorious about war.) Anyway back to the Storms, here was one force of destruction you couldn't reason with or trick, something that wouldn't be stopped by all the goodwill in Velgarth. I know its a force of "nature" but it was the best bad thing she ever wrote about IMHO. Okay, I'm really gonna get to bed now, its getting light outside and I have to return to my dark corner. Florian BTW: If *anyone* was wondering about my faith, I'm an agnostic leaning towards my own brand of pagonism. I like religious discussions (no lets not start one here please, it would be volitile) so I throw a lot of religious references into what I say. I don't mean to offend anyone, no matter how offhand I sound. PPS: If I haven't said this before, everyone try to pick up "Island" by Aldous Huxley. Its out of print, you'll have to get it used, and if you can stick with it, you'll thank yourself, its a great read. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 06:55:30 PDT From: "Lady Sunhawk" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: oops Message-ID: <19980820135530.24200.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> >(offside comment, anyone see Saving Private Ryan? Good >movie, but little gory. Great way to show that there is *nothing* glorious >about war.) Yes, just yesterday!! first forty-five minutes are *really* emotional, you get sensory overload from all the fighting and gore. "nothing glorious", yup, most definitely. obMisty--One of the nastiest villains, in my opinion, was that treacherous guard in Oathbound. I don't remember his name, but he was the one that kidnapped and (with his little gang) gang-raped those high-born girls, Kethry turned him into a woman as revenge. I thought he was quite sane, which made him all the more evil in what he was doing. Also, someone, I think it was Tarma, said that he had a choice, whether to rape the girls or to sell them or hold them for ransom, but he chose to do the most damage and harm. Wind to thy Wings, Sunhawk ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 07:42:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Joanna Lee To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: putting yourself into stories/books Message-ID: <19980820144233.16474.rocketmail-+AT+-send1c.yahoomail.com> Jerrie said: > I tend to sort of hover empathically over the main perspective character, > sharing feelings and some sensations, but not identity. Has anyone experienced something similar? When I'm actually reading the book, I think I do something like that, but I tend not to be paying much attention to what I'm doing. After I'm done, I put myself in as an extra character, sometimes. What books am I reading? Right now I'm about to start Gael Baudino's (sp?) Gossamer Axe, but I'm also about to go to a local used bookstore where I have *lots* of credit, so I might find something I'd rather read. And on Robin McKinnley, I read The Outlaws of Sherwood, and a couple of my friends said The Blue Sword was good, but that's it. Fare you well, LadyKitsune _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free -+AT+-yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 08:28:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Katie To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: putting yourself into stories, Owlflight Message-ID: <19980820152802.12885.rocketmail-+AT+-send103.yahoomail.com> <> I do the "hanging over the shoulder of the characters" thing. I start to become more and more immersed in the story, and become very empathic to the characters that I come to like, to the point that I begin talking to the book, and trying to warn the characters that are in trouble. << I'm absolutely *there*, as far as being completely immersed in the story, needing rude interruptions to bring me "back to earth", etc.>> I recommend that if you're as bad as I am, not to read when others are around. I usually get yelled at by my friends because I can ignore them to the point of not noticing if one of them smacks me to get me to wake up. They always talk about trances, and being scared that one day I might not wake up from a book.... ObMisty- Someone asked about Owlflight. The book is the story of what happens after Karal and Firesong and everyone stop the Mage Storms, but is about characters that had nothing to do with the ending of the storms. == Kay Silversong, Bonded of Winddancer Member of Mistic Circle, Member of the OIB Protectress of Methos's love of the music band Queen Up The Creek Without A Paddle "Everything you do bears a will & a why & a wherefore..." _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free -+AT+-yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 09:31:12 -0700 From: Jenni Halpin To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Braid o' much stuff Message-ID: <35DC4F46.25D7-+AT+-uor.edu> Greg Wooledge writes: "ObMisty: umm... "Who would win in a fight, Ma'ar or the Shrike?" :-)" Oh, the Shrike, I'm sure. It's huge, it's apparently immune to everything, and that translocation bit it does, well, let's just say I'd hope it never took it into its head to appear INSIDE my shields. *************************** Amy Trujillo started asking about how old Darkwind and Firesong are. In WoFate, p. 160 of my PB, "The last time they'd risen, he'd been fourteen, and just discovering the wonders of Girls. Fortunately he had been alone, and thre had been no Girls within reach .... The offspring of that mating were six or seven years old now," So, Darkwind, at beginning of WoFate is only 20 or 21, plus the gestation period of a gryphlet. Dawnfire, on p.121, is seventeen, so if anybody has textevd on their relative ages, that'd help. Also, Treyvan and Hydona have been mated 12 years (p. 273), and Darkwind was 7 or 8 when he met them first (158), which makes him not more than 20 years old. That just can't be right. I mean, yes, when I was 20, I didn't think 17 year olds were particularly near me in age, but that was more the egoism of the college student toward a high school student, and doesn't seem relevant to a society in which adulthood is conferred much earlier. And really, I've always thought of him as being 30. I wonder if there's any textevd to that effect? HELP. ****************************** Astreia wrote: "Does anyone know why there isn't a fantasy\Scifi unit in Literature class? It's a huge genre of Literature and could bring some interesting controversial class discussions" Oh, I agree. And, at the college level at least, one can sometimes find classes on SF. Heck, I wrote my honors thesis (in English: Literature) on Roger Zelazny's trilogy of incredibly short stories, "Fire and/or Ice," "A Very Good Year," and "Exeunt Omnes." (Funny, to pass my defense I had to remove my tirade defending s.f. as legitimate: my committee thought I was fighting a battle which had already been won! {this from a specialist in American Lit, one in Chaucer and the Elizabethans, and a modernist scholar. wow.}) ****************************** Jerrie wanted us to discuss *how* we put ourselves in the story. I more or less don't so much put myself into a story as remove myself from outside the story. I.e., to use a cliche, I become 'dead to the world.' When I am truly caught up in a book, my roommate can come in and sit on me before I notice. I'm not conscious even of the text over which my eyes pass, the process of reading is outside my awareness. When i was much younger I was surprised to see a character in "The Girl with Silver Eyes" by Willo Davis Roberts do the exact same thing, but ever since, I've just considered it normal, after all, it's all I've known. ****************************** Florian, how could you think that recommending a book to "all over 17" [100 Years o' Solitude] would fly? WELL DONE! With any luck they'll [the "minors"] take your earlier advice and go out and read it now. My advice to anyone who does so: if you're struggling and not enjoying it for quite a while, put it away for a few years. So many great books have been struggles for me, but when i go back to them, they're delightful. ****************************** Kalissa Winddancer asked for an Owlflight synopsis. Well, I'll give the barest setting instead. Set after the end of Storm Breaking, in the West of Valdemar, an orphan boy, Darian, of about 13 or so, is apprenticed to a mage/knife healer/finder called Justyn (IIRC). There are Tayledras, a gryphon, and bad-guys. Stylistically it reminds me of SGryph. Princess and I have discussed, and we think that it is because it's sort of a "coming of age" story. ****************************** Affectionately y'all's, as I still wait for a firecat, Jenni. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:18:40 -0400 From: "Judy L. Wood" To: "mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk" Subject: [Fwd: Fwd: RJR ad (fwd)] Message-ID: <35DC5A6F.57459E65-+AT+-BellSouth.Net> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------EFFF180ED78ADDB9C628A3C5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I do not remember if I got the first of the 2 messages I have received from this list or not. This one has more to it. I do not know if anyone is interested in this or not. --------------EFFF180ED78ADDB9C628A3C5 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail1.bellsouth.net (mail1.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.6]) by mail.rdu.bellsouth.net (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA02377; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:27:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from prophecy.lightbearer.com (majordom-+AT+-prophecy.lightbearer.com [209.108.22.226]) by mail1.bellsouth.net (8.8.8-spamdog/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA11346; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:37:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom-+AT+-localhost) by prophecy.lightbearer.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA21935 for cote-l-outgoing; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 09:18:22 -0700 Received: from pagesz.net (nina.pagesz.net [208.194.157.3]) by prophecy.lightbearer.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA21931 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 09:18:17 -0700 Received: from localhost (rainbow-+AT+-localhost) by pagesz.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with SMTP id MAA06241 for ; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:18:12 -0400 Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:18:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Rainbow Dreamfire To: cote-l-+AT+-lightbearer.com Subject: Fwd: RJR ad (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-cote-l-+AT+-lightbearer.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: cote-l-+AT+-lightbearer.com This came off of one of my mailing lists. I thought some members of the community might find it interesting. Dee ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 12:18:29 -0400 From: Pat O'Brien Reply-To: paglore-+AT+-dreksys.com To: paglore-+AT+-dreksys.com Subject: PAGLORE: Fwd: RJR ad I plucked this from an ADF list and it reportedly came from somewhere on AOL. > >Merry Meet, > >This is to inform you that the Pagan, Wiccan, and Vodoun witch communities are >intensifying their protest and boycott of RJR Reynolds, RJR Nabisco, ALL >magazines who are running the Messina/Brown Camel ad, and of Messina Brown >themselves. > >The Wiccan, Pagan, and Vodoun Witch Communities are estimated to be at least >200,000 strong; and those are the people who are simply "out of the broom >closet." There are at least 4 times that many who are actively on the >Internet and now aware of the outrage of this advertising. > >We want a RETRACTION and CANCELLATION of the ad itself, an APOLOGY from RJR >and Messina Brown, and we SUPPORT author Silver Ravenwolf in her endeavours to >seek justice for the unauthorised use of her book, "To Stir a Magick Cauldron" >in the ad. > > >Our grievances are thus: > >Currently, RJ Reynolds has a Camel cigarettes ad running in Rolling Stone >magazine, Mirabella, and most Conde Nast magazines that Messina/Brown >designed. The Pagan, Wiccan, and Vodoun witch communities are outraged at the >depiction in this ad AND at the UNAUTHORISED use of the book, "To Stir A >Magick Cauldron" in the ad. > >The following in as excerpt written by the book's author Silver Ravenwolf: >The Camel Advertisement: > It has been brought to my attention by several fans that my book "To Stir A >Magick Cauldron" has appeared in at least three popular American magazines in >a Camel cigarette advertisement where three attractive women are sticking pins >in a doll to get back at a boyfriend over a shattered romance. These >magazines are Glamour, Rolling Stone, and Mirabella. Neither Llewellyn World >Wide nor I have given permission >for the book to be used in this ad. We are currently looking into the legal >ramifications of this problem. In the meantime, I would appreciate it if you >would write about your displeasure of the advertisement to: > > 1) The magazine that you saw the ad in, telling them of your displeasure, >and asking that now they've allowed this advertiser to buy space, could they >find space fora legitimate article on Wicca. > > 2) Write to the company that manufactures Camel cigarettes. I will research >the address for you and post it. > > Please pass the word about this ad, encourage your friends to visit this site >so that they can read my statement, and ask your non-techie friends to write, >too. Thank you. > Silver RavenWolf > >The following URL gives up to date information pertaining to this >protest/boycott. Please check it out and add your support if you are so >inclined. >http://members.aol.com/TDragnhawk/silvercamel.htm >this next site includes a picture of the ad so you can see for yourself the >book they used without permission. >http://members.aol.com/Cyfaill333/ProtestAd.html > >I find it deplorable that by the use of Silver's book they are implying that >Wiccans use their craft for the purpose of revenge. > >I strongly suggest that you please forward this announcement to the >appropriate parties. > >Thank you for your time!! > >Brightest of blessings, >Freeyja > >-------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, mail LISTSERV-+AT+-ADF.ORG with "unsubscribe ADF-DISCUSS" >(no quotes) in the body. See http://www.adf.org/lists/subscribe.html >for subscription information. Questions? Mail ADF-Listmaster-+AT+-ADF.ORG > - >>> For help, email: majordomo-+AT+-dreksys.com <<< --------------EFFF180ED78ADDB9C628A3C5-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 15:01:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Kenneth Allen Hyde To: Misty Lackey List Subject: MIST: Re: [Fwd: Fwd: RJR ad (fwd)] Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Aug 1998, Judy L. Wood wrote: [snip of very long forward from another list] Hi, everyone, just a quick note from your friendly Councilor on duty. Please remember that "political action" posts are not appropriate on the Misty List. This is an international mailing list, for one thing, and there are many people on the list for whom a local issue (and local can mean an entire country when compared to the whole world) is a waste of bandwidth which they end up paying for. Further, if the political issue is not specifically about Misty, it would be better to discuss it on a mailing list that is dedicated to the relevant subject, where you could assume that everyone on the list would be interested. Mind you, there is certainly an argument to be made that Wicca is, at least, tangentially related to some of Misty's work. But it isn't really the main focus of this list. Anyway, I guess what I'm saying is that while there was no major harm done by the Camel ad posting, let's not let it get out of hand. Please, remember the guidelines for posting whenever you are considering forwarding something to the list, and check with either Mel or a Councilor if you think your forward might be a grey area. If you forget the guidelines, you can consult the Rules of Thumb or the NewbieFest (both are available on web-pages). Okay, I now return you to your regularly scheduled discussions (which may include the Camel ad, braided in with other "on-topic" subjects, of course! *grin*). May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd Councilor of Mist Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me //www.ling.udel.edu/hyde/prof/ken.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 14:10:34 -0700 From: bausch-+AT+-ruraltel.net (Lester D. Bausch) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: How I put myself into a book! Message-ID: <35DC90CA.4689-+AT+-ruraltel.net> Hi All! This is newbie, Faye, (yes, that really is my name! I've never read Lackey's books that has a villian by that name. That is on my To Read List!) When I read a book it's like I'm a director and watching the play or acting unfold. I, too, get so deeply involved my hubby and children say the house could be burning, and I wouldn't look up. I'm not in the action, but I sure am rooting for the characters I identify with. As to who I relate to most of Misty's characters, it has to be either Mero or Gaytha in QO. I have kids romping through my house constantly and have to try to keep up with all their escapades. You are all so intellectual, I was afraid I would have to lurk forever, but decided to take a deep plunge and show my less than intellectualness (Is that a word?) I prefer to give fluffy racoons, cause they're so much cuter!! Faye ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 16:56:44 -0400 From: Jeffery Kuebler To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: putting yourself into stories Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980820165644.0069db54-+AT+-pop.mindspring.com> In response it Jerrie's question, >Do you become a certain >character, feeling what that person feels? Or do you put *yourself* in as >an extra character, as Talia did at the beginning of the first Arrows book? > I find myself inside the story, but not as an extra character (I save that for my dreams, especially when I come across a rather nice looking herald *wink*). It's more of an awareness -- like being one of Vanyel's vrondii. *** ><< > As for "A wrinkle in time", it was band because of "implications of > > Witchcraft" what ever that is supposed to mean. By the way loved the > > book! :-) I saw "A Wrinkle In Time" on the summer reading shelves at the library and bookstore, so I'm assuming it hasn't been banned from my area. What good does banning a book do anyway? I went out and read four of Jean M Auel's books when I was 14 simply because they were a no-no. *** After noticing L'engele on the summer reading list, I checked out the release dates for "Owlflight" and "Owlsight". "'Flight" is due to be released in paperback in October. "'Sight" is due to be released in Hardback also in October. I find this to be a good thing. *** Gunpowder? If Misty's books are following the course of our technological evolution, which I don't think it is specifically, then I believe gunpowder could be feisable (sp??). After all, wasn't Natoli working on a steam engine during the Mage Storms? And didn't gunpowder come WAY before steam engines? *** Does anyone have a bucket for Faye and her fluffy racoons? Take care all! ===== Zhai'helleva, ~Astreia, the (sort of) Bardic Trainee ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1693 **********************************