MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1788 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Fluff. by AprilS81-+AT+-aol.com 2) Fwd: Fluff: Ring story update by Ana Cotton 3) Re: Welcome by AERDEN-+AT+-delphi.com 4) Re: Healing and others by Greg Wooledge 5) Re: Fluff. by Ana Cotton 6) Tremane/Fluff/other book by "Oceania Angels" 7) Hello and goodbye by "asterix" 8) Re: fluff/valdemar's crest/character similarities by "Angie" 9) Query by "Kalen [One In Black]" <95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk> 10) Tremane/list?/other book by "David Brawley" 11) tremane braid by Julia Gray ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 18:11:47 EST From: AprilS81-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Fluff. Message-ID: <1133bebd.365202b3-+AT+-aol.com> Sorry 'bout the fluff, folks. It'll be short. FLUFF. The pooka looked at Elsa and his wrinkled face screwed up in a tight frown. :Can't let that go on.: Muttering quietly to himself, and praying Wolfsdream wasn't anywhere nearby, he gathered up some flowers, a few pretty stones, and a large birds feather. Blushing, face downturned, he handed them to Elsa with a muttered 'for you.' With an embarrassed grin, he changed into a mouse and scurried off. Wolfsdream smiled and moved to Elsa's side. "Just give me a shout if you ever need anything." Quietly she moved off. END FLUFF. <> Dear lord, yes! These are hysterical!! I've read another book by Ms. Wrede entitled _The Seven Towers_ which is wonderful if you like interwoven plots, but the only really funny people are the absent-minded sorceress Amberglass and the King's mercenary sister. But I don't remember which country that King ruled...>> Loved _The Seven Towers_. The Enchanted Forest Chronicles were astounding. The comments by the cats in _Searching For Dragons_ were very funny! I seem to remember a book of short stories by her... Sorry everyone. This had very little relevance to anything. I will try better when I am not in the midst of overdue college essays. Bendithio. Wolfsdream (April) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 15:04:41 -0800 (PST) From: Ana Cotton To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Fwd: Fluff: Ring story update Message-ID: <19981117230441.27740.rocketmail-+AT+-send102.yahoomail.com> *sigh* i reaallly must check the addies before I send stuff... *hugs* ---Ana Cotton wrote: > > Hi all. You're friendly, neighborhood, bogged-down college student, > here. :) > > The Ring story archive is actually nearly done. Just a little more > tweaking.. > ::*Ahem* The board?:: > Oh. Right. Sorry. Anyways, I've just discovered the nifty concept of > posting boards. And, with the lists permission (I'm asking, here, > see..) I'd like to have it the Ring story/Halls RPG board.. Or some > such.. > http://www.InsideTheWeb.com/mbs.cgi/mb207868 > Anyway, go there and post, or see if it *IS* a good idea.. And, > well... I'll stop blabbering now.. :) > > You can also check out what is archived so far at: > http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/6573/lfr/lfra.html > Oh, and if anyone has the Ring bits from the last three months, I > should love to have them to Archive. > Hugs, Ana, who really should get more sleep.. > > > > > > == > Hugs, Ana, proud Knight of Fluff. Certified Cheerios Fiend. Listee for JC. > wishing she were sane. > "when it's cold/i'd like to die..." --Moby > http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/6573 > > _________________________________________________________ > DO YOU YAHOO!? > Get your free -+AT+-yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > == Hugs, Ana, proud Knight of Fluff. Certified Cheerios Fiend. Listee for JC. wishing she were sane. "when it's cold/i'd like to die..." --Moby http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/6573 _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free -+AT+-yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 19:24:56 -0500 (EST) From: AERDEN-+AT+-delphi.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Welcome Message-ID: <01J4AI3NB3PU90U523-+AT+-delphi.com> On 17-NOV-1998 07:23:04.2 mercedes-lackey said to AERDEN me>Femmy wrote about Tremane: me>>A "good" bad guy? What do I me>>need him for? I want "evil" bad guys! And *smart* bad guys, not me>stupid ones >like Ancar, Hulda, or Falconsbane. Yes, but see, evil usually also means stupid. Smart evil guys only happen in fiction. My 'favorites' are Hannibal Lecter (Never read the books, but the bit I've seen of him in 'Manhunter' was impressive.) A terrifyingly intelligent man who knew exactly what buttons to push to torture his victims. My other favorite is Jed Hill, the surgeon in 'Malice.' More believably intelligent, and the character was a convincing enough actor to pull it off. So was his partner-in-crime. But anyway...You're right. Stupid villains in fiction spoil the book, even if they are more realistic. it would have been fascinating if Tremane had indeed been an honestly committed villain with understandable reasons for doing villainy. But I like the guy too much as he is. (g) Chantal/Aerden the Healer ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 19:37:16 -0500 From: Greg Wooledge To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Healing and others Message-ID: <19981117193716.A8433-+AT+-phoenix.local> Eleonora Scoseria (eleonora-+AT+-infodynamics.com.uy) wrote: > On another note, has anyone read Sky Trillium by Julian May? I bought it > cause I have loved her other books (The Many Colored Land and its sequels, > and the Galactic Milieu books which are awesome, IMO) and I am veeeeery > disappointed so far. It's probably one of the sequels to Black Trillium which is a collaboration by (if I remember correctly) Julian May, Andre Norton and Marion Zimmer Bradley. I read Black Trillium a few months ago, and was rather disappointed by it. I haven't read any of the sequels. (Related ObMisty: the collaboration between Misty and Norton and Bradley ("Tiger Burning Bright", or similar) is considerably better. I've never read anything else by Julian May, but I'm not going to dismiss her(?) writing based on one collaboration....) Femmy Syahrani (femmy-+AT+-melsa.net.id) wrote: > The problem is, I don't think Tremane is a bad guy at all. He has a good > heart, he cares about his people, and to me, that makes him a good guy. And > yes, I think Misty intended him to be a many-faceted bad guy, but IMHO, she > failed. I disagree. I think Misty succeeded -- even excelled -- with Tremane. This is because, in my opinion, she wasn't trying to make him a villain. She was trying to make him *human*. He has flaws and virtues, and his actions aren't always good (or always bad). But he strives to do the best he can, regardless of the situation in which he finds himself. Tremane is one of my favorite Misty characters, period. > Tremane is too good to be a bad guy. Now, I do agree with this. :-) > He's only on the wrong side of > the war. But you've lost me here. Early in the Storms trilogy, Tremane considers himself to be a loyal subject of the Empire. He's not at war with anyone. The Empire sends him into Hardorn(?) to bring "civilization" to a country which has been devastated by years of malevolent and sadistic treatment by its king (Ancar). This includes misuse of magic, destruction of the climate and landscape, etc. Tremane does his best to clean all this up and hold on. A little later, when the Storms come through, they seem to be coming from the direction of Valdemar. The Empire sees that the Storms are having a devastating effect upon their magic; they also know that Valdemar has almost no "traditional" magic, and therefore would not be affected as heavily. Tremane also knows that Valdemar and several other countries in the western region are forming an alliance. With no other insight, Tremane assumes that the Storms are a weapon launched by this alliance, and he sends an assassination order to try to disrupt the alliance. Since Tremane is trying his best to protect an Empire to which he still feels loyalty, this could be considered a patriotic response. It could also be considered an act of war, but that's avoided. Finally, when the Empire leaves him stranded in Hardorn with no resources and ignores his pleas for assistance, Tremane rebels and decides to remain in Hardorn as its king, rather than continue his service to the Empire. This rebellion is a far cry from war with the Empire. -- "Daddy, why do those people have to | Greg Wooledge use Microsoft Windows?" | wooledge-+AT+-kellnet.com "Don't stare, son; it's not polite." | http://www.kellnet.com/wooledge/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 19:05:53 -0800 (PST) From: Ana Cotton To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Fluff. Message-ID: <19981118030553.24518.rocketmail-+AT+-send106.yahoomail.com> ---AprilS81-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > > Loved _The Seven Towers_. The Enchanted Forest Chronicles were astounding. The > comments by the cats in _Searching For Dragons_ were very funny! I seem to > remember a book of short stories by her... > Oooo.. Thou hast invoked the great Wrede! The short story anthology is called: Book of Enchantments. She also writes the Lyra novels. Raven Ring, Caught in Crystal, and The Harp of Imach Thyssel, are the ones I recall.. ObMisty: Um... *blush* Sorry, it's been awhile. Ah.. Van is still the king of angst, and my fave. However, Ely is my fave Herald. And Tannim my favorite mage, and well... I'm sure this has been mentioned, but.. Anyone ever noticed the similarities between her novels? ie, Van: trainee in first book, deals with stuff in the second, tortured in the third. Talia: trainee in the first book, deals with stuff in the second, tortured in the third.. Okay, so that's a simplification, but.. ? Hugs, Ana == Hugs, Ana, proud Knight of Fluff. Certified Cheerios Fiend. Listee for JC. wishing she were sane. "when it's cold/i'd like to die..." --Moby http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/6573 _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free -+AT+-yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 21:30:09 PST From: "Oceania Angels" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Tremane/Fluff/other book Message-ID: <19981118053010.9851.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> Heyla! Autumnleaf wrote: >I guess Misty created Tremane to show us that you cannot paint the world in >black and white. That sounds like a good reason for him. I thought he was very well done. It seems like you don't really see many chars that are like him. Most of them are either firmly entrenched on the "good" side or the "bad" side. >I agree with you: I also prefer intelligent "bad guys". Makes it more difficult >for the goodies to get rid of them! But I still like the facets in >my "baddies". I like smart bad guys too! I'm actually writing one on the mythslist. Now if I could just get subbed in so Yvonne doesn't have to send my posts in for me. ~sigh~ FLUFF!!!!!!! (<--count 'em! ) > The group huddle >around the depressed Elsa is suddenly in the middle of glittering snow-fall. >SNow that is magically un-cold and dry but can be made into nice non-hurting >snow-balls >"Let's have a snow-ball fight!" Torell shouts and jumps down from >the table. Sorana abruptly changes into her normal appearance. "Torell, your day has come!" she says, her eyes sparkling as she puts down her cup of chava and makes a big snow-ball. Focusing on the jester, she throws the snow-ball. It hits him smack in the middle of his face. Sorana takes one look at him and falls over laughing. He looks exactly like a snowman. End of FLUFF ~sniff~ Ana wrote: >> Loved _The Seven Towers_. The Enchanted Forest Chronicles >>wereastounding. The >> comments by the cats in _Searching For Dragons_ were very funny! >>Iseem to >> remember a book of short stories by her...> >Oooo.. Thou hast invoked the great Wrede! >The short story anthology is called: Book of Enchantments. I have that book! All the stories in it were _really_ good! Especially the one about the 'Spatula of Doom'! And that recipe for 'Quick After Battle Chocolate Cake'! ~giggle~ I didn't know she did The Enchanted Forest Chronicles. I've been meaning to read those at some point. Except, I keep forgetting about them. :) Stars light your path, Sorana S. Stargem Herald-trainee, %-+AT+-"Cast your eyes on the ocean. High Priestess to the Goddess%-+AT+-Cast your soul to the sea. of Unicorns, %-+AT+-When the dark night seems endless Goddess of Flions, %-+AT+-Please remember me." Knight of Amber and Marigold,%-+AT+---Loreena McKennit ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 00:27:45 -0600 From: "asterix" To: Subject: Hello and goodbye Message-ID: <020a01be12bc$8ebdaf20$560e8ea7-+AT+-asterix.netins.net> Hi everyone, I've been subbed to this list for a little while now and I can't keep up with all the lists I'm on so could someone point me in the direction where I can unsub? Our computer crashed recently and I don't remember where I subscibed at. Thanks ~Tina ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 20:51:57 +0800 From: "Angie" To: "mistylist" Subject: Re: fluff/valdemar's crest/character similarities Message-ID: <01be12f2$3a014560$0100007f-+AT+-heraldtg> Heyla! *fluff first!* Shadowblade eyed the snow-balls flying over at the area around Elsa and sighs. Now why can't there be snow over _here_? Then again... did she really want to trek in slush? Nope, the weather's just fine... *fluff over* btw, did anyone catch the leoneid (sp?) meteor shower last night? :) I tried, but there was this annoying rain cloud... ObMisty: Hmm... I had a question, I knew I did! lessee.... ah yes... does anyone remember when larry dixon started writing in velgarth? and... valdemar's crest is one of a winged horse breaking free of chains, is it just me, or does it remind you of Windrider Unchained? and Ana wrote: <> Elspeth? hmm... my favourite Herald had to be Skif... ;) Yes, there is a similarity back there... many of the better characters had Ordeals quite similar... Lose a close one (Tarma, Van, Talia), never really was close to the family (Van, Talia, Kero), raped (Tarma, Van, Talia, Kethry?), etcs... but you have to admit, it had been those characters that pulled us into Misty's books. so i guess there _is_ a formula. If someone were to pick up Owlflight as the first book from Misty ever read, I'd tell you straight off that that person won't be hooked... Potato chips in the shape of sheep! ( ) Wind to thy Wings <==+==> Shadowblade mindmate to Raul, Elven archer-mage of Fairgrove | | High Priestess of the Goddess of the Elves, and of OOPS | | Grand Dame of the Order of the Namers, Singer of Fire(Alto) | | Member of the Order of Unsung Heroes (Eldan, Eric, and Terenil!) | | Member of the Mistic Circle, Visit my Homepage ~> \/ http://members.tripod.com/~Shadowblade ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:08:30 GMT From: "Kalen [One In Black]" <95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk> To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Query Message-ID: <7257021053F-+AT+-alnilam.mmu.ac.uk> Were there more than 6 messages sent out between 10:30am British time yesterday and noon today[18th] British time? I sent a message to the list and have not recieved it back in my mail though other people obviously did b/c they mailled me at one of my other accounts. Just a query. Kalen.One In Black Champion Of the Ladies In Green 95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk uthro-+AT+-hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Rapids/7701/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 08:25:15 PST From: "David Brawley" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Tremane/list?/other book Message-ID: <199811181625.IAA18707-+AT+-wya-lfd7.hotmail.com> My most humble opinion, Tremane is one of mistys best characters. He shows the qualities that make us human. A true character, made in shades of gray. Of all of misty's characters I can relate to Tremane best. On another note, I was looking for two things, both lists. 1 a hawk-brother phrase list. If anyone has created one I would be interested. 2 A list of "spells" that a journeyman level mage could cast. Your input on both would be greatly appreciated. Finally, on books. Aside from Misty, I enjoy David Eddings(all), Piers Anthony's incarnations of immortality series, Ursula K LeGuin's Earthsea books, and C.S. Lewis' Narnia Chronicles. Wind to your wings David ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 12:46:47 -0600 From: Julia Gray To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: tremane braid Message-ID: <36531617.86906A52-+AT+-oakton.edu> Greg Wooledge wrote: > Femmy Syahrani (femmy-+AT+-melsa.net.id) wrote: > > > The problem is, I don't think Tremane is a bad guy at all. He has a good > > heart, he cares about his people, and to me, that makes him a good guy. And > > yes, I think Misty intended him to be a many-faceted bad guy, but IMHO, she > > failed. > > I disagree. I think Misty succeeded -- even excelled -- with Tremane. > This is because, in my opinion, she wasn't trying to make him a villain. > She was trying to make him *human*. He has flaws and virtues, and his > actions aren't always good (or always bad). But he strives to do the > best he can, regardless of the situation in which he finds himself. > > Tremane is one of my favorite Misty characters, period. I have to agree that Misty excelled in many ways with Tremane - because she was trying to make him human, with flaws and errors that we all have. > > > > Tremane is too good to be a bad guy. > > Now, I do agree with this. :-) > > > He's only on the wrong side of > > the war. > > But you've lost me here. Early in the Storms trilogy, Tremane considers > himself to be a loyal subject of the Empire. He's not at war with anyone. > The Empire sends him into Hardorn(?) to bring "civilization" to a country > which has been devastated by years of malevolent and sadistic treatment > by its king (Ancar). This includes misuse of magic, destruction of the > climate and landscape, etc. Tremane does his best to clean all this up > and hold on. > > A little later, when the Storms come through, they seem to be coming from > the direction of Valdemar. The Empire sees that the Storms are having > a devastating effect upon their magic; they also know that Valdemar has > almost no "traditional" magic, and therefore would not be affected as > heavily. Tremane also knows that Valdemar and several other countries > in the western region are forming an alliance. With no other insight, > Tremane assumes that the Storms are a weapon launched by this alliance, > and he sends an assassination order to try to disrupt the alliance. > Since Tremane is trying his best to protect an Empire to which he still > feels loyalty, this could be considered a patriotic response. It could > also be considered an act of war, but that's avoided. It could also be considered a error of judgement - or more like trying to do the right thing but doing the wrong thing instead. The best intentions were there based on the knowledge he had at the time - he didn't >like< what he had to do, but he did it because he thought it was necessary. How many times has Kero done the same thing (no textevd here . . . )? > > > Finally, when the Empire leaves him stranded in Hardorn with no resources > and ignores his pleas for assistance, Tremane rebels and decides to remain > in Hardorn as its king, rather than continue his service to the Empire. > This rebellion is a far cry from war with the Empire. I don't know that rebellion is really the right word here for me (IMHO) ... I think more along the lines of he did what he thought best for his people - his troops and the area immediately around him. If the empire had been supporting him he would have done what was best with that support - since he didn't have the support, he severed his ties and did what he could for his people. I don't remember it that he decided to remain as king - that came later after he had severed ties. Tremane is my favorite character - I just have a few complaints about him: 1. Excuse me, but does this man have no sex drive or what? 2. If he was supposed to be as good a leader as they say, wouldn't he have at least objectively tried to reason out the implications of the earth-binding? I thought the fact that he was caught completely off-guard there a little bit of a stretch ... and about another thread: favorite non-misty authors: Feist Wrede (funny note: I've been trying to write a YA novel and once wrote Ms. Wrede about her chapter length - it seemed like all of her chapters in the first Enchanted Forest book were really close in length. She explained that when she was writing it she had an old apple that didn't have a hard drive so the chapters had to be limited to how much she could fit on one SD 5 and half inch floppy.....) Guy Gavriel Kay (Tigana is awesome) the list could go on, but these are the ones I'm most likely to buy a hardback book of - Wind to your wings *name still not solved* ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1788 **********************************