MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1807 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Arthurian legends by "Raven Darkblade" 2) re: Arthurian legends, mistakes and OF/OS by Julia Gray 3) Generals and Herald Captains by lwhitman-+AT+-nwcomputing.com 4) Re: storm constantine/other misty books/sfsite/maps by "Rhiannon Shadowsong" 5) Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 1805 by "Rhiannon Shadowsong" 6) Re: Arthurian legends by "Rhiannon Shadowsong" 7) RE: A few more Demon references by "Najar, L. EM2" 8) RE: A few more Demon references by Femmy Syahrani 9) Re: firesong vs an'desha by "Angie" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 08:59:31 PST From: "Raven Darkblade" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Arthurian legends Message-ID: <19981207165931.14643.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> <> Incidentally, 'The King's Damosel' was the inspiration and base for Warner Brothers' recent animated film, Quest for Camelot. The animation and bits of the storyline (in particular the villain) weren't really up to the Disney par, and it did NastyBad things to the Arthurian legend, but I really liked it myself. Nice, nice, *nice* ranger-type, voiced by Cary Elwes and vaguely Pelagir/Tayledras-esque, and some good humor all around, including some hysterical pop culture refs to things like the movie Taxi Driver, Sonny and Cher, and Dirty Harry. ObMisty--I don't seem to have one. Erg. Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. My next mail will have Misty content, I promise. Zha'hai'allav'a, Raven and Mor ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 11:29:42 -0600 From: Julia Gray To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: re: Arthurian legends, mistakes and OF/OS Message-ID: <366C1085.97716850-+AT+-oakton.edu> Okay, I have to put in a plug here for Guy Gavriel Kay - especially Tigana. He does not re-tell arthurian legend per se, but takes the elements of the legend (the characters and their relationships) and retells them in new settings. I love his use of language and the characters he creates. As much as I love this list - and I really do enjoy a lot of the discussions, even if I don't get a chance to participate - I am awed and amazed about what people have discussions about some times. I am wondering if sometimes we can't just chalk some things up to mistakes (hey, writing is Misty's job - she does it for booku hours a week - I know I make mistakes in my job and i don't even put in the time, effort, sweat that she does)? Or chalk some things up to Misty developing a better understanding of a character/a characteristic/a land/a type of magic, etc., things that look like a mistake but if you read the books in the order they were written make sense? I would be more worried if Misty never made a mistake, because I think her mistakes are a sign of her adapting and changing things based on her exploring and delving into her own imagination - no mistakes would mean a dormant mind (to me, at least). Just a thought ... Okay, obmisty: POSSIBLE OWLFLIGHT?SIGHT? spoiler * * * * * * Hope that's enough space ... Someone a few weeks ago mentioned that there's a similarity between Talia and the healer in Owlflight. I hadn't really pondered it before someone mentioned it, but I can see the similarities - except Talia is if not motherly then at least "auntly" - people would seek her out for shoulder to cry on, knowing she had would listen to their woes. The healer (i'm embarrassed that i'm blanking on her name!), although respected by all, is not viewed as having any empathy at all - at least not emotional empathy. I thought the best healers, though, had to have some type of empathy to get patients to relax enough when in their presence to find out what's truly the matter. I mean, if people thought of her as unsympathetic, no matter how good she is, would people go see her? Why would her sister's jilted suitor come knocking on her door if she was supposed to be so single-minded? I know that her untrained gift would explain some things, but .... if i had a choice between taking my chances with sore throat and seeing someone who's bedside manner was lacking, I might take my chances with the cold .....perhaps that's just 20th century me speaking, though. Any thoughts? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Dec 98 09:56:40 -0800 From: lwhitman-+AT+-nwcomputing.com To: Subject: Generals and Herald Captains Message-ID: <9812079130.AA913053436-+AT+-ccmailhost.nwcomputing.com> Question for any and all.... anyone know what general or military leader-type that Kerowyn was based on? Starfire ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 11:34:32 PST From: "Rhiannon Shadowsong" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: storm constantine/other misty books/sfsite/maps Message-ID: <19981207193433.4579.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> shana: > >**** possible spoiler for Oathblood***** > > > > > > >I just finished Oathblood and I am about to start Owlflight. I liked >Oathblood a lot and was glad I read it however- It did bother me that >Tindel's name became Tilden.. (I tried just saying Tindel in my head >whenever my eyes saw Tilden)... That and when Tarma called Kira a prodigy >at fighting and said she was the kind that came a long once in a teacher's >lifetime... that's what she said about Kero- and I like to think that kero >was the one. I knew something was wrong with the name! I just couldn't figure out what. About the prodigy thing: That bothered me too, but then I considered how long they lived. and that Kero was way better than Kira. Within a year Kero was fighting as well or better than most people who'd had training all their lives: including Kira. And then you must consider that Tarma was anceint. She'd had about three normal lifetimes, so there's a third student floating around there somewhere.... ::grins:: Wind to thy wings, Rhiannon Shadowsong ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 11:47:38 PST From: "Rhiannon Shadowsong" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 1805 Message-ID: <19981207194739.2527.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> Time for me to shake my finger! Tsk tsk! Ambermoon: >people seem to have been asking about series order and so forth, the way >I read it was the Arrows trilogy first and then everything else in >chronological order, it makes sense. At my suggestion two friends of >mine read it like this except that they read the Mage Wars first and >then Arrows and then everything else. not trying to yell at anyone, but >it really annoys me when people read long series' out of order b/c >either they don't understand something or they find out something ahead >of time that ruins the beginning. *ducks as everyone throws snowballs >and glares* > I hate that! Reading the trilogies out of order, is ok, but reading the individuall books out of order and then asking dumb questions is almost unforgivable. But I won't hurt you if you have a good excuse (eg, "I live in Nowheresville and we don't have a bookstore!" kind of things) >SPOILER: some people mentioned the end of Storm_Breaking: I hated what >happened to Firesong (and Karal, ect, but this rant is on the >Healer-Adept.) I really like Firesong, and think ML's treatment of him >in the Storm books was terrible. For the gods' sake, he *is* a Healer >Adept, and I don't think he would have followed Falconsbane! Everyone >thought he had everything perfect, and didn't bother to see if it was at >all a facade. (Anyone else seriously reminded of Vanyel?) I understand >why An'desha left him, but I still can't forgive him for it. on p. 418 - >419 of Storm Warning (paperback) An'desha tells Firesong "You are afraid >I will leave you, that I no longer care for you. You are . . . >completely, absolutely, utterly wrong . . . . *I will not leave you* . . >. . I love you." How can you say this to someone, someone you know is >insecure, and then do exactly that, leave them? Unforgivable, IMO. Then >at the end of Storm_Breaking, all Firesong really had left was his power >and beauty, and one was taken away. I'm very grateful to Silverfox, but >I don't like the rest of it at all. They were being mature about it! Firesong had his duties and a life to live, and An'desha had his own. So they went their seperate ways: it wasn't a case of one person leaving another. If anyone left anyone, Firesong left An'desha for Silverfox, when he arrived in Valdemar. Holding An'desha to those words would have been idiotic even if Firesong hadn't gone to Silverfox, because Firesong would have been dragging An'desha around and making him unhappy, and Firesong couldn't have done that to him. I'm babbling. I too shall retire red faced into a corner. =) Rhiannon Shadowsong ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 12:02:29 PST From: "Rhiannon Shadowsong" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Arthurian legends Message-ID: <19981207200230.3351.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> There are times when I'm just too lazy to braid and this is one of them. Usually when I'm that lazy I don't even respond to posts, but I just hafta point out that the reason Quest for Camelot wasn't up to Disney par is that Disney didn't do it. It was a Warner Bros. creation, which bothered me because I don't think they should do animation. But Dreamworks on the other hand has my blessing. Prince of Egypt looks really accurate, both theologically and historically, and adult. I like children's movies, but American adult animation is novel and innovative in many ways. Yes! ><Tolkien's). She has set her story at the Arthurian court but they are >centred around characters that make cameo appearances in the legend >itself. And the final book is dealing with Arthur's heiress several >years after his death. I liked them very much because at the time I read >them I was sooooo tired of reading yet another Arthurian book. >There titles are "The Green Knight" (as in "Gawain and the Green >Knight"), The King's Damossel" and "King Arthur's Daughter".>> > >Incidentally, 'The King's Damosel' was the inspiration and base for >Warner Brothers' recent animated film, Quest for Camelot. The animation >and bits of the storyline (in particular the villain) weren't really up >to the Disney par, and it did NastyBad things to the Arthurian legend, >but I really liked it myself. Nice, nice, *nice* ranger-type, voiced by >Cary Elwes and vaguely Pelagir/Tayledras-esque, and some good humor all >around, including some hysterical pop culture refs to things like the >movie Taxi Driver, Sonny and Cher, and Dirty Harry. > >ObMisty--I don't seem to have one. Erg. Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima >culpa. My next mail will have Misty content, I promise. > >Zha'hai'allav'a, >Raven and Mor > > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 04:09:20 -0500 From: "Najar, L. EM2" To: "'mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk'" Subject: RE: A few more Demon references Message-ID: <024B2C3CB44ED2118B4B00204804FB4601477325-+AT+-CVN65UEX01> Sorry I don't feel like sorting through several dozen postings about the whole mentioning of demons. I just finished the "Winds of Change" and "Winds of Fury" today, and thought I would share the mentioning of demons in it. WOC mentions Anacar stealing the Sun-priests' pet demons (page 220, paper back) WOF has about half a dozen mention of demons. Including an ex-"Demon runner" from Karse. Anacar asking Falconsbane if he was a demon from the void. Hulda using illusions of demons and Pires Nieth doing the same. (pages 337, ?, 409,and 415 respectively). If I wasn't doing this demon thing to death than I would have to pick up a book I saw out here a few days ago based on Islamic (which I have always related closely with the Karse mind set(IMHO)) demonology. Would probably give some interesting insight to the questions involving demons. Not much more to write, but I'm off now to start reading "Storm Warning" Doray Ashwind ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 09:24:37 +0700 From: Femmy Syahrani To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: RE: A few more Demon references Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19981208092437.0068c620-+AT+-pop3.melsa.net.id> Doray Ashwind wrote: > If I wasn't doing this demon thing to death than I would have to >pick up a book I saw out here a few days ago based on Islamic (which I have >always related closely with the Karse mind set(IMHO)) demonology. Would >probably give some interesting insight to the questions involving demons. Hi, I'm interested in: 1. the title of the book 2. why you think Karse mindset is related to Islam. I don't see any similarity between the two. Femmy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 00:48:33 +0800 From: "Angie" To: Subject: Re: firesong vs an'desha Message-ID: <01be22ca$97bc70c0$0100007f-+AT+-heraldtg> Sorry, but i have to write this... can't resist any topic to do with Firesong... ;p Rhiannon wrote: :They were being mature about it! Firesong had his duties and a life to :live, and An'desha had his own. So they went their seperate ways: it :wasn't a case of one person leaving another. If anyone left anyone, :Firesong left An'desha for Silverfox, when he arrived in Valdemar. :Holding An'desha to those words would have been idiotic even if Firesong :hadn't gone to Silverfox, because Firesong would have been dragging :An'desha around and making him unhappy, and Firesong couldn't have done :that to him. I'm babbling. I too shall retire red faced into a corner. :=) well, it's all PoV... but iirc, it seemed like an'desha left firesong (hereforth known as FS) first.. with his spending all day with the artificers and karal. FS paid attn to silverfox (initially) only to gain an'desha's attn... what FS wanted was a love in his life, i guess (who doesn't) and when an'desha started heading mystical and "the artificers are right" when FS plainly detested the artificers, no doubt FS just felt bitter abt the whole thing (remember the phrase about dumping this r/s before it started to stink?) and i don't know abt FS not being able to make an'desha unhappy. iirc, in SR, that was _precisely_ what he wanted to do to an'desha. unfortunately, his plans backfired... which led to an'desha wandering further off, and that scene with aya in his ekele... right, sorry about the abbrvs... ooh look, i did it again! :) mashmallow sheep to all! (is it marshmallow or mashmallow?) ( ) Wind to thy Wings <==+==> Shadowblade mindmate to Raul, Elven archer-mage of Fairgrove | | High Priestess of the Goddess of the Elves, and of OOPS | | Grand Dame of the Order of the Namers, Singer of Fire(Alto) | | Member of the Order of Unsung Heroes (Eldan, Eric, and Terenil!) | | Member of the Mistic Circle, Visit my Homepage ~> \/ http://members.tripod.com/~Shadowblade ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1807 **********************************