MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1849

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Sigs/vrondii/Evil/Firesong
	by Peter Allen <minterra-+AT+-frontiernet.net>
  2) Re: vrondii
	by tan3-+AT+-cornell.edu
  3) Re: Sigs/vrondii/Evil/Firesong
	by Eleonora Scoseria <eleonora-+AT+-infodynamics.com.uy>
  4) RE: Sigs/vrondii/Evil/Firesong
	by Lisa Whitman <lwhitman-+AT+-nwcomputing.com>
  5) Re: Sigs/vrondii/Evil/Firesong
	by Amber Bay <abay-+AT+-BGNet.bgsu.edu>
  6) Keth, vronndi/Black Swan
	by skyfire-+AT+-t-online.de (skyfire)
  7) the good/evil thread
	by "L. J. Thompson" <ljt-+AT+-lclark.edu>
  8) Re: Sigs/vrondii/Evil/Firesong
	by "Darcie L. Cooper" <dlcooper-+AT+-bacwater.net>
  9) Re: Sigs/vrondii/Evil/Firesong
	by "Alexia/Sabrina" <i.casale-+AT+-ukonline.co.uk>
 10) Re: Sigs/vrondii/Evil/Firesong
	by "Abigail Laughlin" <abbykat-+AT+-hotmail.com>
 11) Re: Sigs/vrondii/Evil/Firesong
	by troll-+AT+-netcomuk.co.uk
 12) Re: Talia & lifebonds
	by Barbara Sorenson <barbara.sorenson-+AT+-m.jordan.k12.ut.us>
 13) Plea for help
	by edrucker-+AT+-ruraltel.net (Ed Rucker)
 14) RE:  Re: Question from a Newbie
	by Orelalaith <ghsu-+AT+-ic.sunysb.edu>
 15) Mindspeaking
	by Danae <danae-+AT+-ime.net>
 16) Re: Sigs//Evil/Firesong
	by "Marv Watson" <skywolf-+AT+-washington.sbceo.k12.ca.us>
 17) Re: Karal and Florian/ story ideas
	by Orelalaith <ghsu-+AT+-ic.sunysb.edu>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:25:54 -0500
From: Peter Allen <minterra-+AT+-frontiernet.net>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Sigs/vrondii/Evil/Firesong
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990119102554.00840d00-+AT+-pop3.frontiernet.net>

On a Council-ish note, there have been a few large sigs that have popped up on the list recently. Please everyone keep in mind Mel's Rules of Thumb, which states:

"The suggested length of signatures on Usenet is four lines. On this list, where many people post several times a day, it is probably safe to assume that people will remember who you are after the first post. Therefore, attaching an 8 - 10 line signature to every post is seen as antisocial. Don't do it."

The other parts to her Rules can be viewed at:

http://www.herald.co.uk/local_info/rules_thumb.html


Now, on with the funner stuff ;)

---

StarFire wrote:
>     Here's a question for you guys, if the vrondi are very sensitive, 
>why doesn't Kethry feel them?

My thoughts are that Kethry did feel them, but she was only on the fringes of the borders, in that cabin where that prince was keeping up. Can't remember the textevd, though, apologies.

>However, iirc, wasn't she with a Herald for most of the time?  The vrondi
>may have that that it was all right.

Mixing them up... Kero was the Herald, Keth was the one with Tarma :).

---

Raven wrote:
>Furthermore, guns are not evil, knives are not evil, 
>drugs are not evil, money is not evil, though all of them can be used in 
>evil ways. It's the hand behind the gun or the knife that is evil or 
>good

By the gods, woman, do you know what you're saying? If we follow this, then it means each person must accept responsibility for their own actions and use their own judgement to decide if an act is good or not. Oh, woe is humankind... *giggle* ;)

---

And wrote before in an earlier post:
>I haven't forgotten this, and it can be blamed for a fair share of 
>Firesong's idiocy, but I don't think it completely justfies the way he 
>was thinking and acting through that period.

I can in part. I think that it just magnified the feelings or little thoughts that he had in regards to things. Sort of like giving a megaphone to that little voice inside your head. Now I know for some that there are several voices, so just pick one *g*.

Really, though... If you think about it, during one's day, there are those fleeting moments that one has, "Gods, you know, I just wish that <insert wish here>." After stating it, then we get over it, and go on with the rest of our reasoning life. What happened with Firesong is that those fleeting moments just lengthened to the extreme, and when they did vanish, another one took their place without allowing him to re-establish his base.

>I don't think that's necessarily true, though it's accepted that 
>Firesong is more powerful. That wasn't the main reason he was affected. 
>He was affected because he was a Healing Adept, closely attuned to the 
>land.

I think that one of the problems with speculating on whether it was that he was an Adept or Healer Adept or such is that we don't get that much of a view of other Adepts during this time, except for Charliss (the emperor, right? Forget names), who was Adept, but was also watching as the spells that were keeping him alive began to unwind.

>I don't think it was a lack of power that kept those magics from being 
>used. It was more that the knowledge got lost. Mages like Elspeth will 
>certainly keep innovating and gradually new 'more powerful magics' will 
>come into use again.

No, it was the loss of magic. One of Ma'ar's thoughts (the person who definitely had the knowledge), was that he wished that there was as much magic in the world as their was during his first incarnation. I do agree that the knowledge played a part of it, but it wasn't the main reason... people could have invented as much as they wished, but still wouldn't have been able to recreate the Great Works of the past.

Bright be thy day,

   Wintershard
   Councilor of Mist
   http://www.herald.co.uk/local_info/rules_thumb.html
   http://www.ling.udel.edu/hyde/pers/misty/newbiefest.html

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 11:42:05 -0500 (EST)
From: tan3-+AT+-cornell.edu
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: vrondii
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.990119113905.18293A-100000-+AT+-travelers.mail.cornell.edu>



On Tue, 19 Jan 1999, Peter Allen wrote:

> StarFire wrote:
> >     Here's a question for you guys, if the vrondi are very sensitive, 
> >why doesn't Kethry feel them?
> 
> My thoughts are that Kethry did feel them, but she was only on the fringes of the borders, in that cabin where that prince was keeping up. Can't remember the textevd, though, apologies.
> 
> >However, iirc, wasn't she with a Herald for most of the time?  The vrondi
> >may have that that it was all right.
> 
> Mixing them up... Kero was the Herald, Keth was the one with Tarma :).
> 


Well, actually, Tarma and Kethry were with the heir to the throne of 
Valdemar, so he had to have been a herald. The vrondi probably saw 
Kethry, saw that she was with a Herald (though not a Herald-mage) and 
backed off.  I wondered about this for a really long time, until I just 
*made* things fit to my satisfaction. I've found that if you worry 
something around enough, you can usually make up some assumptions that 
will allow all the pieces to fit into place nicely. :)

Zephyr
tan3-+AT+-cornell.edu


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 13:49:09 -0300
From: Eleonora Scoseria <eleonora-+AT+-infodynamics.com.uy>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Sigs/vrondii/Evil/Firesong
Message-ID: <4.1.19990119133312.009aa120-+AT+-infodynamics.com.uy>


>StarFire wrote:
>>     Here's a question for you guys, if the vrondi are very sensitive, 
>>why doesn't Kethry feel them?

Wintershard commented:

>My thoughts are that Kethry did feel them, but she was only on the fringes 
>of the borders, in that cabin where that prince was keeping up. Can't 
>remember the textevd, though, apologies.

Hmm...my thoughts are (but i don't have the publication timelines to
corroborate it) that Misty realized afterwards that she had to somehow
explain the fact that Keth had worked magic in Valdemar and came up with
those comments in BTS where she is said to have commented about feeling
odd. It sounds pretty strange that there should be no comments in OBreakers
about it. My pet theory is that she decided that Van had made magic
"impossible/difficult" in Valdemar after writing OBreakers. But i may be
waaaaaaaaaaay wrong. Does anyone have the publication dates handy?

Starfire also said:

>>However, iirc, wasn't she with a Herald for most of the time?  The vrondi
>>may have that that it was all right.

And Wintershard said:

>Mixing them up... Kero was the Herald, Keth was the one with Tarma :).

No, no, actually, I think Starfire meant Roald. Keth was not only with
Tarma but also around Herald Roald most of the time.

===
then re Firesong, Wintershard commented:

>I think that one of the problems with speculating on whether it was that he 
>was an Adept or Healer Adept or such is that we don't get that much of a 
>view of other Adepts during this time, except for Charliss (the emperor, 
>right? Forget names), who was Adept, but was also watching as the spells 
>that were keeping him alive began to unwind.

I have a question about Healer Adepts as well. IIRC Moondance was also a
healer of people (i.e. he healed Van of the damage caused by his channels
being blasted open). However, Firesong seems unable to do anything but heal
the land. Is that so or am I misremembering?

On a different note, there are now three Misty-related IRC channels on
EFNet (#valdemar, #k'valdemar and #velgarth). However, while several of the
channel members are also on the Misty list, there isn't that much Misty
discussion going on in them, tho Misty discussion is of course welcome,
unless it is about Van'sHealingGift(TM) *giggle*. 





Peace,

Ele
Councilor of Mist 
http://www.ling.udel.edu/hyde/pers/misty/newbiefest.html 
http://www.herald.co.uk/local_info/rules_thumb.html 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 09:11:52 -0800
From: Lisa Whitman <lwhitman-+AT+-nwcomputing.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: RE: Sigs/vrondii/Evil/Firesong
Message-ID: <B5B3316A9588D211BB2A00A0C9D03AE102D5B8-+AT+-netware312.nwcomputing.com>


>>I have a question about Healer Adepts as well. IIRC Moondance was also a
>>healer of people (i.e. he healed Van of the damage caused by his channels
>>being blasted open). However, Firesong seems unable to do anything but
heal
>>the land. Is that so or am I misremembering?

I'm making an assumption on this, but it seems that the Healing that
Moondance did to Van's channels was mental, not physical.  Firesong did some
of that in WoFury with the young man who was raped.  

Starfire

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 13:15:10 -0500 (EST)
From: Amber Bay <abay-+AT+-BGNet.bgsu.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Sigs/vrondii/Evil/Firesong
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.95.990119123922.20808C-100000-+AT+-bgnet1.bgsu.edu>



LOL...hello everyone...some interesting topic have been floating around
on this list and i thought i'd poke in my opinion for a little bit!!

first things first...i FINALLY read OwlSight (i think that's the right
one...the second book in series...i mix up OwlFlight and OwlSight all the
time...<sigh>)....definately much better...i rather like Daren...but i do
have one tiny qualm...

POSSIBLE SPOILER FOR OWLSIGHT












in the first book, Daren had a whole bunch of problems...he was certainly
NOT perfect...he was selfish, sullen, and a brat...now me, i liked
that...however, in Owlsight, he seems a bit perfect...i mean, now he's
well-adjusted and has no bit personality flaws...i don't know, but that
doesn't sit with me well...i mean, the Tayledras are pretty calm and all,
but they even have faults and seem human (ex: Darkwind - was extremely
jealous of Firesong and had problems with that)...maybe i'm being insane,
but Daren has become too perfect for me, which leads to my second topic...








END SPOILER


the question was asked (i know not by whom) which is better: a good/bad
character with some/none flaws...i think i must agree with the majority it
seems...i MUCH prefer a good character (hero if you will) with flaws than
without....i loved Vanyel because he had so many personality problems and
not all of his problems with "solved"...i DIDN'T like Talia because she didn't
 seem to have any
big personality flaws besides shyness and she ended up with a "perfect"
life (i.e. got the man, has friends, confidant of the queen, masters her
powers etc)...sure, she suffered (a great deal) but everything turned out
beautiful in the end...life just isn't like that....but i
digress...similarly, i was disappointed with the "endings" of Elspeth,
Darkwind, Kerowyn, and numerous other characters....however, i was
surprised and pleased by Firesong's bout of selfishness over the lifebond
deal...it made him more human...

as for bad characters (villains), i like them bad....i thought Tremane was
kinda, well, boring...in fact, i skimmed most of the chapters that
featured him because he bored me so...quite frankly, I want Falconsbane/
Ma'ar/ Leareth back because he was soooo easy to dislike....no redeeming
qualities for me, thank you...

> Raven wrote:
> >Furthermore, guns are not evil, knives are not evil, 
> >drugs are not evil, money is not evil, though all of them can be used in 
> >evil ways. It's the hand behind the gun or the knife that is evil or 
> >good

hmmm...i don't know...my first instinct is to agree with you...but i
thought some...i agree with knives and money...they have been used for
good/benign purposes...

HOWEVER, to what purpose do guns serve...they may only kill, in my
opinion...i don't know if there is another purpose to which they
serve...and i think that most people would agree that "killing" is
inherently evil...it's something that should not be done....therefore, if
a gun's purpose is only to kill and killing is evil, shouldn't guns be
considered evil?...

and what about drugs (i assume that it's illegal drugs, not medicinal
drugs)...do they serve a "good" purpose?...i'm not quite sure...it seems
that all they do is harm bodies and lives...and that also seems
"evil"...but i don't feel i have as strong a case with drugs...

what am I saying??...maybe that some items (inanimate objects) have only
an "evil" purpose and should be classified as "evil" objects...that's
sounds almost ludicrous...anyways, if i am wrong, please argue with me...

coincidentally, i also think that all people have the capacity for good
and evil...i believe that it's possible for a person to be nearly all evil
and nearly all good...

some more intriguing questions...do the means justify the ends....should
one do an "evil" deed if it results in a greater good???....to what extent
is a person compelled to do good (so that their life is
forfeit???)...what if a person does a deed expecting good but ends up
with evil...are they truly responsible for the resulting evil??...i
recently took a philosophy  course and loved it...i could talk on these
subjects for hours!!!

anyways, that's it...if anyone has a counter-opinion, please say so...

~ Ice



------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 20:02:28 -0800
From: skyfire-+AT+-t-online.de (skyfire)
To: misty mailing list <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: Keth, vronndi/Black Swan
Message-ID: <36A55554.754E35D-+AT+-t-online.de>

Rainfire wrote:

>  Here's a question for you guys, if the vrondi are very sensitive, 
> why doesn't Kethry feel them? She goes into Valdemar and she does use 
> her powers... 

I always assumed that the author had a "better idea" <tm> between this
book and the next. But this rather Doylist approach is not to everyone's
taste... ;)

*********************************************************************

Heather {Kitt} wrote:

> Don't know if my post reached the list last time but am re-posting.
> Does anyone know when Owlknight will be released??

Haven't heard about that one, but on the DAW homepage, _Black Swan_ is
listed as new in April. 

Btw, did anybody else find the DAW site a bit disappointing in design
and execution?  Or am I spoiled by Baen (one word: sample chapters...)?

--

Khenta B., longtime lurker
aka Skyfire, bonded to Aar


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 11:54:33 -0800
From: "L. J. Thompson" <ljt-+AT+-lclark.edu>
To: "'mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk'" <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: the good/evil thread
Message-ID: <01BE43A2.877E0AE0-+AT+-BASIL>

I've been reading all of the stuff about flawed vs. perfect characters and 
the nature of good and evil, and I thought I'd add my opinion to the mix.

I think that a book is much better if no one is "perfect." I like to relate 
to the main character, and I like them to seem human. Also, in some way, I 
find it encouraging that a less than perfect person, even one who doesn't 
really exist, can still do good. Did that make any sense? I'm not sure. If 
a character has no faults, they don't seem very "real" to me. I am not fond 
of entirely evil enemies either. In my experience, no one is totally evil. 
People can do very evil things, yet, if you dig deep enough, you can always 
find some good in them, however small. Many times, they do something very 
evil, but in their own twisted mind, they believe that they are doing good. 
So "good," to me, must be something defined by a society or individual, it 
is not something that is "just there." How many times has someone told you 
that they were doing something "for your own good?" Many times, I'm sure 
they believe that they are. Sometimes, they may be right, and sometimes 
they may be wrong from your point of view, yet they believe it sincerely. 
There are some things that we, as a society, have decided are "good," such 
as helping others, and "evil," such as killing people. Yet, in some 
societies, these things would be seen differently. In some societies, 
killing your enemies in war would be seen as honorable, and, as such, 
probably "good." As for inanimate objects, I do not see how they can be 
"good" or "evil," any more than they can be "jealous" or "cranky." Good and 
evil are internal things, and can only be ascribed to thinking beings. The 
purpose of a gun may be evil, but the gun itself is only a piece of metal. 
One of the things that annoyed me the most about some of the Mercedes 
Lackey books was "entirely evil" enemies, like Ma'ar and his various 
incarnations. Yes, they make it easy to root for the main character, but it 
does not seem that the world works that way. Maybe Velgarth does. I mean, 
yes, Falconsbane was a bit beyond nuts, and that provides an excuse, but I 
still prefer villains to be sane(?) people with a twisted view of the 
universe, as opposed to just evil and nuts. For example, I really liked 
Sylvia Louise Engdahl's sci-fi book The Far Side of Evil, which, although a 
young adult book, spends a great deal of time talking about the nature of 
evil. I recommend this book to anyone who can find it. (it's out of print) 
Well, this email was rather long and not as book-related as I'd like it to 
be, but I can't think of anything book related to say, and I at least 
mentioned Mercedes Lackey books. (***looks around hopefully***) Sorry. I'll 
try to be better about it in future posts.

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`
end


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:15:39 -0800
From: "Darcie L. Cooper" <dlcooper-+AT+-bacwater.net>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Sigs/vrondii/Evil/Firesong
Message-ID: <36A4E7EA.3AE4EFC3-+AT+-bacwater.net>



Amber Bay wrote:

> HOWEVER, to what purpose do guns serve...they may only kill, in my
> opinion...i don't know if there is another purpose to which they
> serve...and i think that most people would agree that "killing" is
> inherently evil...it's something that should not be done....therefore, if
> a gun's purpose is only to kill and killing is evil, shouldn't guns be
> considered evil?...

Well, just a thought, back before we had stock yard to raise animals in so that we
could slaughter them, we actually used guns to kill game for the table.  And
before that we used bows and arrows and even spears. (Some people even used there
hands, ugh)  So, I think that there is at least a reason for them being invented.
As to the present, they are used for protection, though the arguments of when and
if they should be used are many and varied.

Actually, some of the same things can be said about swords, should they be
considered evil?  It seems to me that quite a few of Misty's characters used
swords and knives.

Just a thought.
--

Darcie L. Cooper
dlcooper-+AT+-bacwater.net

Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not after you.



------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:07:16 -0000
From: "Alexia/Sabrina" <i.casale-+AT+-ukonline.co.uk>
To: <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Sigs/vrondii/Evil/Firesong
Message-ID: <052e01be43f4$3034cb00$45c828c3-+AT+-i.casale>

>i DIDN'T like Talia because she didn't seem to have any big personality
flaws besides shyness and she ended up with a "perfect" life

I didn;t like Talia much because I found her to be a very passive
character... Not a go out and do it yourself person like Kero... as to
Firesong I liked him- interesting character... maybe not the most wonderful
person in the world but very human and fun to read.

>HOWEVER, to what purpose do guns serve...they may only kill, in my
opinion...i don't know if there is another purpose to which they serve...

Strange how a lot of people never connect guns and gun related crime...

>and what about drugs (i assume that it's illegal drugs, not medicinal
drugs)...do they serve a "good" purpose?...i'm not quite sure...it seems
that all they do is harm bodies and lives...and that also seems "evil"...but
i don't feel i have as strong a case with drugs...

Actually the main problem with drugs that ruins the most lives is that they
are illegal... if drugs- even hard drugs- were legal there would be a HUGE
cut in the amount of harm done <see Holland>. There is a huge percentage of
crime that is connected to drugs... Like prohibition, outlawing drugs means
that the illegal drugs trade has a huge criminal empire. If drugs were legal
they could be related and it would cut crime drastically. There would still
be damage- like alcohol still does damage to a lot of lives... but not as
many as during prohibition... As to whether the drugs are good or bad...
well heroin has been used for painkiller for people with things like
cancer... morphine was used for pain... some do have uses that are good...


>some more intriguing questions...do the means justify the ends....should
one do an "evil" deed if it results in a greater good???....

Well I think that people who abuse children should have their dangly bits
cut off because they don't deserve them. I'm not sure about capital
punnishment- In almost all cases I'm against it but... I think child abusers
could well deserve it.

>In my experience, no one is totally evil. People can do very evil things,
yet, if you dig deep enough, you can always find some good in them, however
small. Many times, they do something very evil, but in their own twisted
mind, they believe that they are doing good.

I didn't used to think anyone was entirely evil but I've since met people
who, at the time of meeting them, were completely and utterly selfishly evil
and didn't give a damn about it.

Hm... obmisty... think think... Do people in Misty's books ever get colds? I
mean... Dirk and Talia both got pneumonia... but does anyone just get a
really rotten cold? All the above in just in my humble opinion...



------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 14:01:56 PST
From: "Abigail Laughlin" <abbykat-+AT+-hotmail.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Sigs/vrondii/Evil/Firesong
Message-ID: <19990119220157.17859.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com>


<<On a Council-ish note, there have been a few large sigs that have 
popped up on the list recently. Please everyone keep in mind Mel's Rules 
of Thumb, which states:

"The suggested length of signatures on Usenet is four lines. On this 
list, where many people post several times a day, it is probably safe to 
assume that people will remember who you are after the first post. 
Therefore, attaching an 8 - 10 line signature to every post is seen as 
antisocial. Don't do it.">>

Oooh, time for Raven to trim down her sig again... :)

<<<Here's a question for you guys, if the vrondi are very sensitive, why 
doesn't Kethry feel them?>>>
<<My thoughts are that Kethry did feel them, but she was only on the 
fringes of the borders, in that cabin where that prince was keeping up. 
Can't remember the textevd, though, apologies.>>

We could fudge this and say that the sensation of being watched compared 
to their other problems wasn't really mentionable, but she did recall it 
later on... :)

My spiel on good-n-evil:
<<By the gods, woman, do you know what you're saying? If we follow this, 
then it means each person must accept responsibility for their own 
actions and use their own judgement to decide if an act is good or not. 
Oh, woe is humankind... *giggle* ;)>>

I know, I know... and that's coming from me, high priestess of the 
avoidance of responsibility and self-accountability... oy!

<<I can in part. I think that it just magnified the feelings or little 
thoughts that he had in regards to things. Sort of like giving a 
megaphone to that little voice inside your head. Now I know for some 
that there are several voices, so just pick one *g*.>>

I resemble that remark! ;)

<<Really, though... If you think about it, during one's day, there are 
those fleeting moments that one has, "Gods, you know, I just wish that 
<insert wish here>." After stating it, then we get over it, and go on 
with the rest of our reasoning life. What happened with Firesong is that 
those fleeting moments just lengthened to the extreme, and when they did 
vanish, another one took their place without allowing him to 
re-establish his base.>>

All right, I think I can see this. I am still heartily annoyed with 
Firesong in general and could have lived without those segments, but at 
least there is a logical explanation beyond 'he was being a git'.

<<No, it was the loss of magic. One of Ma'ar's thoughts (the person who 
definitely had the knowledge), was that he wished that there was as much 
magic in the world as their was during his first incarnation.>>

Oh. I must have forgotten that. Okay, nevermind what I said earlier... 
:) 


Zha'hai'allav'a,
Raven Darkblade and Mor the raven,
Holy Hand of the Goddess of Elves,
Member of the Mistic Circle,
Knight and Founding Member of the Order of Unsung Heroes, Advocator of 
Eldan, Champion of Kethra and Hyllarr, Devotee of Maclyn, and Worshipper 
of Tal Rufen.

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 22:28:35 GMT
From: troll-+AT+-netcomuk.co.uk
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Sigs/vrondii/Evil/Firesong
Message-ID: <1999119223019341-+AT+-netcomuk.co.uk>

Alexia/Sabrina wrote:
>
>Hm... obmisty... think think... Do people in Misty's books ever get colds?
>I mean... Dirk and Talia both got pneumonia... but does anyone just get a
>really rotten cold? All the above in just in my humble opinion...

Can't think of any Herald who did offhand(though I'm sure there must
have been some)but the obvious example is Tarma, in _Friendly Fire_,
originally in one of MZB's Sword and Sorceress volumes and reprinted
in Oathblood.

Trollhugs and chocolate sheep,

Muranog Shadowbane
Troll Adept, Knight of Fluff, OIB, Member of the Mistic Circle
and his bondmate Sable, the giant black war sheep(also OIB)
(yes, the .sig uses fewer lines now)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 15:36:56 -0600
From: Barbara Sorenson <barbara.sorenson-+AT+-m.jordan.k12.ut.us>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Talia & lifebonds
Message-ID: <36A4FAD1.D8729ED8-+AT+-m.jordan.k12.ut.us>

*The here-to-fore unknow observer pokes her head out
cautiously, eyes wide, and tentatively offers:*

Alexia/Sabrina quoted someone saying:
>i DIDN'T like Talia because she didn't seem to have any big
personality
>flaws besides shyness and she ended up with a "perfect"
life

and then said

>I didn;t like Talia much because I found her to be a very
passive
>character... Not a go out and do it yourself person like
Kero... as to
>Firesong I liked him- interesting character... maybe not
the most wonderful
>person in the world but very human and fun to read.

To me, Talia is a personification of what I wish for
myself.  She was a badly abused child who escaped that
abuse, and found enough love, acceptance, and courage to
heal.  She got her reactions and talent under control.  And
she does get to end up happily ever after -- which is an
ending I would very much like to have.  If she ever recieved
more attention in a new novel, I would hope to see some
minor flaws that she would still be trying to fix.  Maybe
she's irrational and smothering to her child -- an
overcompensation alluded to in Winds of Fate (when Seleny is
trying to get Elspeth followed around by a company of guards
-- Talia says she'd probably react the same way if someone
tried to kill her child).

As to lifebonds -- a subject I have dearly wanted to comment
upon....If it's feeling something missing when he's not
there, and aching for his embrace, his voice...Being
terrified that you love someone THAT much...And at times NOT
wanting to love him, but not being able to help
yourself...but then feeling safe with him, and too happy for
words when he IS there.... well, I have a bad case of it.

*So the observer ducks her head again to appologize for
length and wait for responses.*



------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:52:47 -0500
From: edrucker-+AT+-ruraltel.net (Ed Rucker)
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Plea for help
Message-ID: <36A544FE.DB3D8622-+AT+-ruraltel.net>

Heyla!

 Real Life has taken over and all I have had time for has been the occasional
lurk, and then <Horror of Horrors!> Our computer had a major crash.  We are
finally back up <Hooray!> and out a major repair bill <groan>.

Help!  I have lost all bookmarks.  Could someone please e-mail me - privately
the addies for the ML archives, Faqs and stuff.  I'd also appreciate Firebird
and anything else you can think of that is Misty related.

Ob-Misty:  Anyone have an idea of how big Valdemar is in miles or kilometers?
I remember the maps from some of the books, but how does it compare to the size
of the nations and/or states inour world?

Wind to thy Wings,
Minstrel Clarienne
Lady in Green
edrucker-+AT+-ruraltel.net


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 23:36:13 -0500 (EST)
From: Orelalaith <ghsu-+AT+-ic.sunysb.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: RE:  Re: Question from a Newbie
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.990119233111.27824H-100000-+AT+-sparky>

> First, I'd like to thank you all for answering my questions.  =)  However, I
> was just wondering about that pictures/concepts version of Mind-speech. 
> Talia has the gift of Empathy - and thus cannot "talk" to Rolan as many of
> the other Heralds are capable of.  If I'm not mistaken, she said that the
> only time that she could truly hear what Rolan was saying was when she
> tranced.  I had thought that Mind-speech involved actual words passing back
> and forth between the two people.  I know that images/pictures are passed
> through, but isn't it mainly the words that distinguish Mind-speech from
> Empathy?
> 
> 
> Jaylor Avarisse
> Newbie With a Terrible Memory
> 

What I'd always thought of it as is the sender sends the concepts, and
then the recipient places the right words in the right places... for
telepathy as opposed to emotions and pictures for emapthy... like, if I
was to e-mail you a letter describing an event versus me sending you an
avi of the same event and music which conveys the emotional bits in the
appropriate places (w/o the voices)


* -------------------------------------------------------------------- *
"Eventually we come to a point where High Science becomes 
  indistinguishable from High Magick"
			-NOT misquoting A.C. Clark, CORRECTLY quoting me!
* -------------------------------------------------------------------- *
		http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~avariel
		uid : hsug-+AT+-ug.cs.sunysb.edu
* -------------------------------------------------------------------- *



------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 20:24:38 -0500
From: Danae <danae-+AT+-ime.net>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Mindspeaking
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990119202438.007df130-+AT+-ime.net>

Although the question regarding what exactly Mindspeaking was during the
discussion reagarding Need's ability to speak with her bearer was awhile
ago, I just found a very clear description of it in Arrow's Flight.  On pg.
107 Talia describes it......

"For a Mindspeaker, it was obvious when he was projecting; it sounded to
the recipient a great deal like the MindsSpeaker's normal voice, but as if
the words were coming fromdeep inside his own ear."

Hope that helps clear up any lingering confusion.....

May the Road Rise to Meet You,
    ~Danae~    a.k.a. Lady Aphrael


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:58:05 -0800
From: "Marv Watson" <skywolf-+AT+-washington.sbceo.k12.ca.us>
To: <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Sigs//Evil/Firesong
Message-ID: <004201be4429$16758120$f08030cc-+AT+-skywolf>

Ice Wrote:
<<<some more intriguing questions...do the means justify the ends....should
one do an "evil" deed if it results in a greater good???....to what extent
is a person compelled to do good (so that their life is
forfeit???)...what if a person does a deed expecting good but ends up
with evil...are they truly responsible for the resulting evil??...i
recently took a philosophy  course and loved it...i could talk on these
subjects for hours!!!>>>

I thinnk in most cases, the means DO justify the ends.  An example, an
obmisty one at that too, would be the war between Urtho and Ma'ar.  Here is
this massive war being fought between two Great Mages, with the cost of
thousands of human (and other) lives, for the purpose of what?  To stop the
greater evil from winning and destroying the lives of everyone else.  A real
life example would be world war II.  Were the lives lost in the stopping of
Hitler worth it?  I think so.  Think of how many other lives that were saved
because of it.  Not that Hitler didn't make quite a dent while he was in
power, but still, he could have done much much worse.    And also a side
note, I'm starting Kant's Critique of Pure Reason.  Is it any good?



<<<Actually the main problem with drugs that ruins the most lives is that
they
are illegal... if drugs- even hard drugs- were legal there would be a HUGE
cut in the amount of harm done <see Holland>. There is a huge percentage of
crime that is connected to drugs... Like prohibition, outlawing drugs means
that the illegal drugs trade has a huge criminal empire. If drugs were legal
they could be related and it would cut crime drastically. There would still
be damage- like alcohol still does damage to a lot of lives... but not as
many as during prohibition... As to whether the drugs are good or bad...
well heroin has been used for painkiller for people with things like
cancer... morphine was used for pain... some do have uses that are
good...>>>

    Ouch.  This is interesting.  Because in some things I'm in agreement,
and yet others am most definently not.  If hard drugs were legalized - I
don't think there would be a large cut in the amount of harm done.  In fact
I think   the amount of harm would go up up and up.  Think, if you will, of
all those people when they turn 18 or what ever the age limit would be, and
are able to buy these hard drugs at the corner market.  The drugs for the
local pushers would now be at their fingers to sell to the little kiddies
down the block, and believe you me, that's exactly what they'd do.  Then
we'd REALLY start seeing the younger herion addicts come out into the
spotlight instead of hiding where most of america doesn't want to see them.
To legalize hard drugs would be one of the worst things the american
government could do.  They'd be giving the local drug dealers of america a
vast supply of drugs at their fingertips.  Sure organized crime MIGHT go
down, but somehow I doubt it.  The mob and mofia or who ever aren't stupid.
They'd find some way to profit off of it.  As for legalizing some drugs, I
think weed would be ok for people to legalize.  It would be the compromise
if it really came down to it.  The lesser of the two evils.
    As for the benefits of herion...what benefits?  Herion is of the
morphine family.  It can be replaced with codine or something like it.
Herion is the second most destructive drug I have ever seen, right there
next to coke, which is the first.  My friend is now a felon because of a
drug bust.  He got caught carrying a briefcase full of coke.   And the thing
was, was that the boy was a genius, an honest to god genius, and now his
life is screwed because of his crippling addiction.  He wanted to be in
intelligence, or research at one of the government run labs.  Now there is
almost no way he'd ever be let in there if they find out that he was busted
for coke when he was 18.  The government wouldn't allow it.  Heck, our
government TEACHER almost wasn't allowed to teach because he was busted when
he was 18 for "illegal navigation of the (blah blah blah) River".  He and
some friends got caught canouing down one of the Los Angeles rivers.  They
booked him under some code that was 100+ years old and it's haunted my
teacher for the rest of his life.

    SORRY FOR THE TANGENT!!!!!  I'll get off the soap box now...*g* (steps
down gingerly, just now realizing that she was ranting and raving like an
idiot.  But hey, it was fun! *g*)

ok, obmisty....
Anyone know for sure what BLACK SWAN is going to be about?  A retelling of
swan lake or some such?  Like the fire rose or The fire bird or what ever
the books name was.  Hmmmm...(ponders).
    Hey!  I like Firesong!  Sure he was a jerk at some stages, but who
isn't?  It's just like the phrase from RENT, my favorite musical, "Let he
amoung us without sin be the first to condemn".  You can't fry it if you've
tried it.  Who here hasn't been jealous before?

Yeah yeah yeah....LATE!

Skywolf and Misha
Priestesses of John the Guitarr Player, Buddah the Drum God, Rob the Guru
Guy and Guitar Matt.  Members of OOPS, OOUH, OIB and Priestesses of Kellie,
the Goddess of Kate.
Ist Champions of Firesong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(better?)
"An' it don' mean a thing, if it ain't got that swing.." Miles Davis
**
"Did you hear that?" she asked.  The fact that there was no one else in the
room disturbed her not at all.  "Ok, good, I was just checking.  I'm glad
I'm not the only one hearing that damn laughter." -J.W.





------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 23:12:40 -0500 (EST)
From: Orelalaith <ghsu-+AT+-ic.sunysb.edu>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Karal and Florian/ story ideas
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.990119231003.27824F-100000-+AT+-sparky>

> 	I'm really interested in the initial split from the empire. Why it 
> happened, what action did the empire take, etc. I think the whole story 
> behind it could at least make another trilogy and it could also lead 
> into the following rulers and what happened to them. Anyway, that's jus 
> my opinion.

Wasn't that the whole Griffon series? (You'll remember Falconsbane
mentions something about the bird-lovers and the heralds being descended
from the Mage of Silence's followers?)

> Anyway, I shall crawl back into lurkdom (for fear of becoming outcast 
> (again)) and back into solitude.

Again?

* -------------------------------------------------------------------- *
"Eventually we come to a point where High Science becomes 
  indistinguishable from High Magick"
			-NOT misquoting A.C. Clark, CORRECTLY quoting me!
* -------------------------------------------------------------------- *
		http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~avariel
		uid : hsug-+AT+-ug.cs.sunysb.edu
* -------------------------------------------------------------------- *



------------------------------

End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1849
**********************************