MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1850 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Sigs/vrondii/Evil/Firesong by Danae 2) Re: Why didn't Florian "choose" Karal? by Orelalaith 3) Re: characters, info, and fire.... by Orelalaith 4) Re: where would they be now by Orelalaith 5) Re: Why didn't Florian "choose" Karal? by Orelalaith 6) Hmmm, question... by Orelalaith 7) Re: Sigs/vrondii/Evil/Firesong by Abigail Laughlin 8) Re: villains by "Winterstar K'Canada" 9) Talia by Danae 10) healing adepts by "L. J. Thompson" 11) Re: Sigs/vrondii/Evil/Firesong by Jehanneton 12) RE: Thanks / Evil by "Morgaine" 13) Different threads by Gisela Vazquez 14) Braid-braid-braid-braid by Paige 15) Re: Different threads by "Abigail Laughlin" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:52:44 -0500 From: Danae To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Sigs/vrondii/Evil/Firesong Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990119195244.007e3940-+AT+-ime.net> Ele said...... >I have a question about Healer Adepts as well. IIRC Moondance was also a >healer of people (i.e. he healed Van of the damage caused by his channels >being blasted open). However, Firesong seems unable to do anything but heal >the land. Is that so or am I misremembering? If I remember correctly all Tayledras Healing Adepts were trained in the healing of the lad as this was their main purpose in life. Moondance soothed the pain of Vanyel's mind channels but it didn't involve any physical healing. If he had really been able to "heal" people he would be able to knit bones back together and do all of the physical acts of healing. If I am remembering right I don't think he ever displayed this ability. I think what he did was more akin to Talia's gift of Mind-healing. He helped Vanyel deal with both the pain caused by the blasting of his channels as well as his pain in losing 'Lendel and the guilt he felt for that death. Does anyone else agree? May the Road Rise to Meet You, ~Danae~ a.k.a. Lady Aphrael ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 23:09:17 -0500 (EST) From: Orelalaith To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Why didn't Florian "choose" Karal? Message-ID: I wrote a response to this, this is an addendum... I vaguely remember one short story (a 'generic herlad' story... :) where it was revelaed that generally (BESIDES potential heirs, and people who NEED to be a herald at THIS point in time, ie, Elspeth) Chosen from people who have Gifts and would be wasted as what they were and/or would've been... for example, Talia (though she falls more into the special people catagory), 'cause her Gift would've been wasted among the Holderkin. Or Kris, who wold've been a courtier, or Skif!! :) In fact, wasn't some herlad-mage in Vanvel's time a thief who actually was on thier way to be sentenced for petty theft when s/he was Chosen? * -------------------------------------------------------------------- * "Eventually we come to a point where High Science becomes indistinguishable from High Magick" -NOT misquoting A.C. Clark, CORRECTLY quoting me! * -------------------------------------------------------------------- * http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~avariel uid : hsug-+AT+-ug.cs.sunysb.edu * -------------------------------------------------------------------- * ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 23:25:52 -0500 (EST) From: Orelalaith To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: characters, info, and fire.... Message-ID: > > < which totally ends the Kory-Beth-Eric triangle and sets up Eric, it seems, > as Di's Guardian replacement!>> > Wow!! I wanted definate proof that they took place in the same U, and I > got it!!! But, but . . . Kory! Where is Kory?!?! I LOVE KORY!!!!!!!!!! (Beth > notsomuch) Well, the Bedlam Bards exist in the Serrated Edge, right? And Di DID meet Tannium when he was still in school (he mentioned seeing a witch vs sorceress dual as a kid, and the said dual occurred in Jinx High, where Di DEFINITLY met someone LIKE Tannim... and Tannim had a best friend who's a mage, who is DEFINITLY the kid that Di helped in said book... ::grin:: sheesh, I've got a near-photographic memory for this crap, and I can't even remember where I put my keys! ARGH! > < Elvendude novel about Unseelie elves using a laser tag hall as a way to > steal mortal children.>> > *freaks out* What was the SECOND book?! I've only heard of Elvendude!!! ::makes a face:: I'm not uber-happy about this... I think they should co-ordinate the magic system a bit more if they're gonna write in the same world... I noticed way too many inconsistant stuff which was a bit annoying... what's even morea nnoying's they're both good, and I'd probably not have such a problem if the world wasn't the same... ::Grin:: I tried pretnending they were different worlds, but it's no use... :( * -------------------------------------------------------------------- * "Eventually we come to a point where High Science becomes indistinguishable from High Magick" -NOT misquoting A.C. Clark, CORRECTLY quoting me! * -------------------------------------------------------------------- * http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~avariel uid : hsug-+AT+-ug.cs.sunysb.edu * -------------------------------------------------------------------- * ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 22:37:34 -0500 (EST) From: Orelalaith To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: where would they be now Message-ID: > Falconsbane: he would be a big corporate head honcho. Making deals and > controlling people. He would have to be in control of a company that > made the world revolve. CEO of Microsoft? :P It IS the evil emipre... > Skiff of course would be a world leader. Always ready with a joke and > straight to the point when it came to putting things into prespective I'd think all the heralds are too honest to be politicians.. ::shrug:: but that's just me... * -------------------------------------------------------------------- * "Eventually we come to a point where High Science becomes indistinguishable from High Magick" -NOT misquoting A.C. Clark, CORRECTLY quoting me! * -------------------------------------------------------------------- * http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~avariel uid : hsug-+AT+-ug.cs.sunysb.edu * -------------------------------------------------------------------- * ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 22:59:23 -0500 (EST) From: Orelalaith To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Why didn't Florian "choose" Karal? Message-ID: Hopefully, nobody ansered this already... :) My mail server's over-ful, and I didn't see any replies to this... but, didn't the Fire-cat already "Choose" Karal? So, wouldn't that be poaching? On Wed, 13 Jan 1999, Menace wrote: > Well? > > Does anyone know? Companions have chosen many non-valdemarian people in the > past, why is it that Florian acts as if he "chose" Karal, yet Karal never > becomes chosen. I refer to how Florian bonded with Karal when Ulrich died, > Etc... > > FireDancer K'Visa > > * -------------------------------------------------------------------- * "Eventually we come to a point where High Science becomes indistinguishable from High Magick" -NOT misquoting A.C. Clark, CORRECTLY quoting me! * -------------------------------------------------------------------- * http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~avariel uid : hsug-+AT+-ug.cs.sunysb.edu * -------------------------------------------------------------------- * ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 22:48:16 -0500 (EST) From: Orelalaith To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Hmmm, question... Message-ID: It seems to me that everyone here's read the Valdemar series(es?!), so my question is this, has anyone read the Bardic Voices? the Urban Fantasies? The Tregarde, Serrated Edge, etc. Or the sci-fi (Of which I only remember "The ship that searched")? For those of you that haven't, they're great... for those of you who have: Which series do you think could cross over? And how would you see some of the charactors reactiong to eachother? Now me... I'd think that Bardic voices can probably cross with any of the others (except the Ship one), it could be a post-apocalypic-type, in which case it could be a future Serrated Edge (Abiet, DEFINITLY a nicer version than the normal post-apocalyptic), or just the future of the Valdemar series. ::grin:: The problem is, her charactors tend to not have huge flaws which would make them not get along... I can see Di Tregarde getting along just FINE with Vanyal, for example... * -------------------------------------------------------------------- * "Eventually we come to a point where High Science becomes indistinguishable from High Magick" -NOT misquoting A.C. Clark, CORRECTLY quoting me! * -------------------------------------------------------------------- * http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~avariel uid : hsug-+AT+-ug.cs.sunysb.edu * -------------------------------------------------------------------- * ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 18:23:33 PST From: Abigail Laughlin To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Sigs/vrondii/Evil/Firesong Message-ID: <199901200223.SAA06302-+AT+-f68.hotmail.com> <> That depends on your viewpoint on war, more or less. Let's extend this into Velgarth--are swords evil? They have no use other than killing, but some of that killing is done so that innocents won't suffer and just people won't be oppressed. Now apply that to the police or to the military. It's very, very hard to judge when those people are in the right or in the wrong--but suppose during World War Two the Allies didn't fight because they'd decided earlier guns were evil and as just nations they shouldn't use evil objects? Granted, that would have been foolish on their parts, and there is such thing as a necessary evil, but I just can't believe that an inanimate object with no sentience or sapience of its own can be classified as 'evil' or 'good'. It's the use it's put to that is good or evil, not the object itself. <> When I used the term drugs I was using is as a blanket term for all types of drugs, both medicinal and illegal. I did that mostly because there are a lot of medicinal drugs that can be abused, and a lot of illegal drugs that were developed for use in the field of medicine. Heroin, for instance, which was developed as a cough medicine and a method of weaning addicts off morphine, before it was realized how addictive it was in its own right. <<)...do they serve a "good" purpose?...i'm not quite sure...it seems that all they do is harm bodies and lives...and that also seems "evil"...but i don't feel i have as strong a case with drugs...>> Drugs are a classic example of something that can be used for good or harm. Almost all drugs, if taken irresponsibly or carelessly, can be harmful. Most illegal drugs started as attempts to create new medicines. They definitely can't be labeled 'evil'. <> I agree with this. I'm inclined to believe it's impossible for a mortal human being to be all evil or all good. <> Mankind has been asking these questions for centuries, and I don't think anyone's come up with a satisfactory answer yet. :) <> I liked Talia all right but I identified much more with Kero and Elspeth and thus was more interested in them.. Firesong is, perhaps, a very realistic character, but his flaws are the ones that annoy the heck out of me, and so I wind up not liking him as much. <. There is a huge percentage of crime that is connected to drugs... Like prohibition, outlawing drugs means that the illegal drugs trade has a huge criminal empire. If drugs were legal they could be related and it would cut crime drastically. There would still be damage- like alcohol still does damage to a lot of lives... but not as many as during prohibition...>> You have a very good point here... will drugs like heroin and crack ever be made legal? Will the deaths resulting from overdoses be less than the current deaths caused by junkies robbing businesses to pay dealer's prices or the deaths from stretchers in the drugs put in by dealers to expand their supply? The world may never know. <> Kethry got PMS in Oathblood and Tarma got a cold... There have been headaches from any number of reasons. Jadrek and Tarma both had arthritis. Zha'hai'allav'a, Raven Darkblade and Mor the raven, Holy Hand of the Goddess of Elves, Member of the Mistic Circle, Knight and Founding Member of the Order of Unsung Heroes, Advocator of Eldan, Champion of Kethra and Hyllarr, Devotee of Maclyn, and Worshipper of Tal Rufen. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 22:19:02 MST From: "Winterstar K'Canada" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: villains Message-ID: <19990120051902.26822.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> --->Someone else's stuff: ><better story, a villain with redemption potential or a hero with serious >character flaws?>> --->My stuff: I think that an evil character can come from two roots: the kind that was twisted as a child or from birth. Examples (they might not be truly evil, but they're examples) are : Winnowill from Elfquest, TwoEdge from Elfquest, and so on. These characters have the potential of good, but somewhere, they were twisted into eviler paths. One movie I recently saw (Anime), the antagonist was trying to help the people, but when he gained the power which he wanted to use to help with, he became evil, and thusly the opposite of what he had wanted. On the OTHER hand, there's always hating the one who was always evil, born evil in the womb until the day he would have died. Ever read 'The Regulators' by Richard Bachman? Wonderful story, but Tak has no chance of redemption. You love to hate him. It depends on what kind of story you are trying to write. I personally prefer the twisted mind, and knowing how it was twisted. As long as, in the end, he doesn't become good. I /hate/ that! So those are my .02 cents and a half. Zhai'helleva! Winterstar K'Canada "A canter is a cure for every evil." -- Benjamin Disraeli ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:46:23 -0500 From: Danae To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Talia Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990119194623.007e1400-+AT+-ime.net> Just to keep the thread of thought going..... >*The here-to-fore unknow observer pokes her head out >cautiously, eyes wide, and tentatively offers:* > >>Alexia/Sabrina quoted someone saying: >>i DIDN'T like Talia because she didn't seem to have any big personality >>flaws besides shyness and she ended up with a "perfect" life > >and then said > >>I didn;t like Talia much because I found her to be a very passive >>character... Not a go out and do it yourself person like Kero... as to >>Firesong I liked him- interesting character... maybe not the most wonderful >>person in the world but very human and fun to read. > >To me, Talia is a personification of what I wish for >myself. She was a badly abused child who escaped that >abuse, and found enough love, acceptance, and courage to >heal. She got her reactions and talent under control. And >she does get to end up happily ever after -- which is an >ending I would very much like to have. I agree with the first part of this but I do not agree with the happily ever after ending. No one said her life was perfect...just because she got Dirk in the end doesn't mean she didn't still have problems. And I do not believe that Talia was a passive person. She was always the one to seek out the problems others were having and tyring to help them. She had a lot of crap early in her life and like the *lurking person* said she overcame all this to be a great person and a great herald....probbly even one of the best. And as I am rereading the Arrows trilogy right now I can give some text evidence that her "passiveness" and "meekness" served her well. It caused people to underestimate her and as Herald Kyril thought on pg. 71 in Arrow's Flight "Perhaps that tendency to dismiss her lightly was not altogether a bad thing. Being underestimated could be a potent and very useful weapon." In a way, her passiveness was one of her best weapons and one of her best defenses. Just my opinion anyway....*G* May the Road Rise to Meet You, ~Danae~ a.k.a. Lady Aphrael ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 00:17:13 -0800 From: "L. J. Thompson" To: "'mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk'" Subject: healing adepts Message-ID: <01BE440A.3DCD9EC0-+AT+-BASIL> ~Danae~ a.k.a. Lady Aphrael said: > If I remember correctly all Tayledras Healing Adepts were trained in the >healing of the la[n]d as this was their main purpose in life. Moondance >soothed the pain of Vanyel's mind channels but it didn't involve any >physical healing. If he had really been able to "heal" people he would be >able to knit bones back together and do all of the physical acts of >healing. If I am remembering right I don't think he ever displayed this >ability. In Magic's Pawn, at the beginning of chapter 14, it mentions that Moondance had Healed minor injuries while they (Moondance, Starwind and Savil) were rounding up the colddrake swarm. I assume that the reference was to physical injuries. So it would seem to me that he could Heal people, but he usually had more important things to do. Oh, and on a different topic, I think someone asked which Mercedes Lackey books people had read. I've only read the Velgarth books (but I've read all of those except for the Oath books) and The Ship Who Searched. But I only really found out about Mercedes Lackey books in late August, a few weeks before school started, so I think I'm doing pretty well so far. :). L.J. Thompson.........or, as my CompSci teacher firmly has it, "Algeh" ICQ# 6886878 begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(A,(`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!-+AT+-`(````Y 0```````#H``$(-+AT+- <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0-+AT+-36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````-+AT+-`"``$$ MD 8`Z $```$````0`````P``, (````+``\.``````(!_P\!````5P`````` M``"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````&UE4!H97)A;&0N M8V\N=6L`4TU44 !M97)C961E``(P M`0````4```!33510`````!X``S !````'0```&UE4!H M97)A;&0N8V\N=6L``````P`5# $````#`/X/!-+AT+-```!X``3 !````'P```"=M M97)C961E4!H97)A;&0N8V\N=6L` M`````-+AT+-'W7P$```!7`````````($K'Z2^HQ 9G6X`W0$/5 (`````;65R8V5D M97,M;&%C:V5Y0&AE4!H M97)A;&0N8V\N=6L```,`_5\!`````P#_7P`````"`?8/`0````0````````" M`6\!!( !``\```!H96%L:6YG(&%D97!THD``!X`'-+AT+-P!````!0`` M`%--5% `````'-+AT+-`?# $````/````;&IT0&QC;&%R:RYE9'4```,`!A"-+AT+-_:]-+AT+- M`P`'$.4#```>``-+AT+-0`0```&4```!$04Y!14%+04Q!1%E!4$A2045,4T%)1#I) M1DE214U%34)%4D-/4E)%0U1,64%,3%1!64Q%1%)!4TA%04Q)3D=!1$505%-7 M15)%5%)!24Y%1$E.5$A%2$5!3$E.1T]&5$A%3$%.``````(!"1 !````H00` M`)T$``#V!-+AT+-``3%I&=2MX,WD#``H`-+AT+-: MS1E&(0`?)&\T2#P! `?X"9396F7!< `P"#! 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M`````0`````````>`$F "" &``````# ````````1-+AT+-`````WA0```0````$` M````````'-+AT+-!*-+AT+- -+AT+--+AT+-!-+AT+-``````P ```````$8`````.(4```$````!```````` ;`!X`/0`!`````0`````````#``TT_3<``%'[ ` end ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 19:24:17 +1000 From: Jehanneton To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Sigs/vrondii/Evil/Firesong Message-ID: <36A5A0C1.97BBBF97-+AT+-ozemail.com.au> Delurking just for a minute after a *very* long absence :-) Abigail Laughlin wrote: > > < they are illegal... if drugs- even hard drugs- were legal there would be > a HUGE cut in the amount of harm done . There is a huge > percentage of crime that is connected to drugs... Like prohibition, > outlawing drugs means that the illegal drugs trade has a huge criminal > empire. If drugs were legal they could be related and it would cut crime > drastically. There would still be damage- like alcohol still does damage > to a lot of lives... but not as many as during prohibition...>> > > You have a very good point here... will drugs like heroin and crack ever > be made legal? Will the deaths resulting from overdoses be less than the > current deaths caused by junkies robbing businesses to pay dealer's > prices or the deaths from stretchers in the drugs put in by dealers to > expand their supply? The world may never know. This sort of approach is called the "harm minimisation" approach by health professionals. We don't advocate to make drugs like heroin and crack legally available to the general public, but we do advocate the provision of drug of choice i.e. heroin, available to drug dependent people in a controlled fashion to reduce the harm to themselves and to the community. Drug dependent people can and many do, live a worthwhile life and contribute positively to the community. What is necessary for this is to have their dependency controlled effectively. If a dependent person is receiving the dose they need to function effectively on a daily basis in a controlled manner, they are much less likely to go out and rob a pharmacy or mug someone for the cash to buy their next hit. Most dependent people don't *like* being dependent, and there are many out there who are dependent because their doctors have poor prescribing habits. The difference between drug of choice programmes and programmes such as the methadone programme we use here in Australia is that it is just that- drug of choice. Heroin does not have the side effects methadone has, and people on the programme aren't going to go out and sell their dose for the money to buy heroin. Unfortunately, methadone is a legal drug here and can be prescribed by a doctor (although the doctor needs to be authorised to treat someone for a dependency) whereas heroin is illegal and can't be used at all. This makes it very difficult to convince narrow minded politicians who don't understand the harm minimisation philosophy. When push comes to shove, there is really very little difference between drugs like heroin and methadone anyway, but the "illegal" stigma is hard to break. /me gasps at the length of this post. Sorry for standing on the soap box- and worst of all, I can't think of an ObMisty. Well, maybe next time! Jehanneton ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 13:50:32 +0100 From: "Morgaine" To: Subject: RE: Thanks / Evil Message-ID: <000201be4473$7839bc10$656410ac-+AT+-pc01.tc-systems.com> First, I want to give a really HUGE "Thank You" to all those people that kept mentioning Tannim, Kory and the SERRAted Edge books. You piqued my curiosity, so I made a order to Amazon and as a result I spent 5 day reading my prizes. (if you are interested 17 books, not all from Misty, that makes 3 books a day, more or less). I think that "Crome Circle" and "Bedlams Bard" have made to the top ten among Misty books, but I enjoyed also The Firerose. The reference to music left me a bit puzzled. Does anyone know of a CD (or more than one) where I can find rendition of some of the songs from Bedlam's Bard? The subject was mentioned a few months ago, but the only CD I found is one from the Tempest, and I would like to find something more traditional. Second thread: I think I will apologize in advance. The "Evil" thread is such that it is awfully easy to get carried away and express opinions too forcefully. Since English is not my native language I may not be aware of doing so. Please, don't take offence if this is the case. Wintershard wrote: <> How can it be differently? I MUST accept responsibility for MY own actions and use MY own judgement to decide if an act is good or not. Morality (or right and wrong) cannot be decided through a majority vote. If I make a different choice from the society I live in, I will face the consequences, but I will not allow them to make the choice for me. By the way, according to your hypothesis, if I live in a society where slavery is accepted, it is also right to have slaves. I don't think (?) you will subscribe to this. Alexia/Sabrina wrote <. There is a huge percentage of crime that is connected to drugs... Like prohibition, outlawing drugs means that the illegal drugs trade has a huge criminal empire. If drugs were legal they could be related and it would cut crime drastically. There would still be damage- like alcohol still does damage to a lot of lives... but not as many as during prohibition... As to whether the drugs are good or bad... well heroin has been used for painkiller for people with things like cancer... morphine was used for pain... some do have uses that are good...>> Not unless you make being an addict a "fashionable" (SP?) thing. Drugs are illegal because a addicts cannot work as member of a human society, therefore use of drugs should be discouraged. If we make drugs legal, there is the obvious problem of how to get them to the people that want to use them. On solution is through health departments. You would only turn governments into drugs providers and put the burden of addicts on the shoulders of those that are NOT addicts. I don't think this would work. Furthermore legal distribution of drugs does not mean that they are provided for free. If drugs are not free, there would be crime to obtain the money to pay for them. If they are free, but under controlled distribution, you have a black market to provide those that don't want to be known as addict, or want more that they can get from public distribution (by the way, this has been tried in Switzerland and turned into a major disaster). <> Don't forget their female counterpart. They are less common, but they exist. Jehanneton wrote: <> I have yet to find a record of drug dependent people contributing positively to the community. By the way, the key word is "dependent". I am not talking about a sporadic use of a recreational drug, if such a thing exist, but the case where the need is you primary urge, with no space left for anything else (work, your responsabilities to those around you etc). And drugs with no immediate effect (like tobacco) are likely to have an heavy cost on the health, which is later paid for, usually by the community. Not a fair trade off. There is an old trilogy by Leigh Brackett "Skaith". It is mainly a "space opera" with lot od adventure, but the setting is few hints of what could happen if you put so much enphasis on the protection of the helpless (people without work, people without a place to live, people who use drugs to retire from the problems of real life) that you forget the "healty" member of your society. In the books, the council of elders had to keep a part of their society in virtual slavery to support these "helpless children". Is is obviously a fiction, but it is non so difficult to see how this could happen (some says it is already happening, but I really hope it isn't so). Wind to thy wings, listsibs. Morgaine, the Were-Cat A distant cousin to the Cheshire Cat Member of The Ones In Black "I am the Cat who walks by himself, and all places are alike to me" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:03:09 -0500 (EST) From: Gisela Vazquez To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Different threads Message-ID: rainfire wrote: here's a question for you guys if the vrondi are very sensitive, why doesn't kethry feel them? she goes into valdemar and she does use her powers ... couldthis be due to her tie to the star-eyed? I haven't read the Kethry/tarma stories but everyone that has written on the subject has suggested that she meaning Kethry, did feel the vrondi although we shouldn't discount her connection to the Star-eyed because she does take a personal hand in the life of her chozen servants. on the good/bad char thread Marv Watson wrote: "a character needs flaws in order for him/her to really connect with the reader because if they're perfect, then they'd go blathering on and on about honor and valor and all those other things that supposedly make up a good hero and bore everyone to tears." Talk of Honor and Valor does not bore me to tears. I actually enjoy it to a certain extent. I will aggree that a flawed hero is more like us and therefore easier for us to relate to and is actually appreciated more because they have those flaws to overcome. At least that's how I see it. The same goes for a flawed? villain. Can you call a villain flawed? I guess villain with redemption possibilities because we can feel for him/her. Wintershard wrote: "no it was the loss of magic. one of ma'ar's thoughts (the person who definitely had the knowledge) was that he wished that there was as much magic in the world as their was during his first incarnation." Where's that? It's not that I doubt your word, but I'd just like to read it for myself I actually remember reading something to that effect, but where!? Zephyr wrote: "i wondered about this for a really long time until i just chmade* things fit to my satisfaction. i've found that if you worry something around enough you can usually make up some assumptions that will allow all the pieces to fit into place nicely." That's an interesting way of looking at things. I guess one can always find a way to solve things and though to most things I do like solutions, I occasionally like some unanswered questions to keep things well, magical *grin* i have a question about healer adepts as well. iirc moondance was also a healer of people (iance. he healed van of the damage caused by his channels being blasted open). however firesong seems unable to do anything but heal the land. is that so or am i misremembering? I'm reading sb and Firesong said that next time that chagren heald Karal he would help. I don't know what that says about healing adepts. I could be wrong, but I think I remember reading in one of the books that healing adepts could heal physical hurts but it was not their primary duty, shrug, I could be wrong please feel free to correct me. It is either in LHM or storms. I also remember Moondance healing Van after he'd almost been killed in his first run in with Lereth and that was most deffenately physical healing. "they even have faults and seem human (ex: darkwind - was extremely jealous of firesong and had problems with that...maybe i'm being insane but daren has become too perfect for me" I never noticed Darkwind being jealous of Firesong, it went right over my head. Cool! As for the Owl books I have not read them so I will not comment. I aggree with the person that said guns are evil, although they have been put to good purposes in the past, do we really have a need for them now!? Someone else said if guns were bad, why not knives and swords. Swords are good in books but I don't know about in real lives, knives are used in sergical practices...,well, I'll g for now, cause late for school.Lady G ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 11:02:17 -0500 From: Paige To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Braid-braid-braid-braid Message-ID: <36A5FE09.1711-+AT+-sympatico.ca> C. Killingsworth wrote: > Here's a question for you guys, if the vrondi are very sensitive, > why doesn't Kethry feel them? She goes into Valdemar and she does use > her powers... It wasn't that long after that Selenay came about and > tried to bring mages in. Could this be due to her tie to the Star-Eyed? I often wondered that myself. In BTS, she talks of how uncomfortable it was in Valdemar, yet she stayed there for a long time, and even performed her Adept manifistation there. She surely didn't seem uncomfortable. Then, when Quenten and the other mages cross, they can only stay a few days before being driven nearly mad. What gives? Katie Snyder wrote: >I just reread Arrows, and I had a question.On page > 50 of Arrow's Fall Selenay's talking about Elspeth marrying and says, > "I'm hoping for her to have a lovematch, and that with someone who is at > least Chosen if not a Herald." I don't really understand this comment. > The only people I can think of she'd be referring to are the trainees, > but she's talking about a permanent relationship, which means they'd be a > Herald, or if they didn't, she wouldn't want Elspeth marrying them. So > why does she make this distinction? Remember that, at this time, a large gap is often seen in the ages of the bride and groom, often 5 - 10 years. Elspeth is around 14 at this time, is she not, so her mother is thinking of someone who is a herald, still, Elspeth might fall in love with someone her own age, wo would be only a trainee. Just my humble opinion. Lioness2U-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > Yes, the birds definitely have a say in the matter of who they bond with, but > unlike Companions they do not have a completely free rein in their choice. > This is because the Tayledras each choose the kinda of bird that they want. > For example, a scout would choose to bond with a different kind of bird than a > mage would. So, yes, the birds are involved in the choice, but so are the > people with whom they are bonding to. I think that the bondbirds are smart enough to know that, for example, a herbivore would not be a good match for a scout, and so, would not try to bond with one in the first place. I don't believe that the person has any say in the matter. Read on: > Also, in the example given above, I believe that part of the reason that they > had to ask the bird like they did was because he was of bondbird stock, but > had not bonded with anyone when he was younger and had become partially wild. > This bird might have preferred to stay wild instead of returning to the Vale. > I don't think that younger birds that had never left the Vale would be asked > in the same way. S P O I L E R S P A C E IIRC, in Owlflight, the birds do the choosing. Remeber int he end, the little bird flies to Darian and tells him that they are going to bond, because his (the birds) parents say so. I'd say that the above example was the exception arther than the rule, in that Hylarr, because he was not raised in the vale, had to be asked, rather than just flying up to Starblade and announcing that he was staying. -- Paige GO LEAFS!!! proud to be Outlandish (to e-mail double the p and take out the "reston") ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:27:42 PST From: "Abigail Laughlin" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Different threads Message-ID: <19990120162743.8293.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> <<"a character needs flaws in order for him/her to really connect with the reader because if they're perfect, then they'd go blathering on and on about honor and valor and all those other things that supposedly make up a good hero and bore everyone to tears." Talk of Honor and Valor does not bore me to tears. I actually enjoy it to a certain extent.>> Honor and valor and that wonderful 'nobility of spirit' thing is preferectly fine and good, as long as it's balanced by a little expedience and some judicious character flaws. To quote Karelian, one of my favorite of my own characters, "Honor is all very well and good, but stupid honor will get you squished." That was during an argument in a cave, the other participant being a Knight who was using honor--refusal to put a woman in danger--as an excuse to gain glory for himself. He wound up trapping Karelian in the cave and leaving her there for about two days, until she was rescued and returned to the love-of-her-life by the archvillain of the piece. That was fun. The Knight later trooped off to battle the archvillain in single combat, and died quickly. That archvillain, an ex-Knight-cum-Dragon-Emperor, is probably one of my favorite villains. I doubt I'll ever live to see him reform, but he's got this wonderful code of honor, and while Karelian, my character, doesn't particularly like him, she respects him more than she does many of the folks on her side. Pretty fun, huh? <> Actually, I think Darkwind and Elspeth were *both* jealous of Firesong at points, largely because Darkwind thought Elspeth was infatuated with Firesong and Elspeth, once she learned Firesong was shay'a'chern, thought Darkwind might take him up on the offer of a feather. I wanted to knock all three of their heads together, but it was amusing. :) <> Well, how about an example, swiped from the immortal wisdom of Terry Goodkind... Suppose your country's government decides that gus are indeed evil and that, since they are, they should all be gotten rid of. The first groups to get rid of their guns will be the military and the police forces. Now what happens if a group of cops go up against a criminal packing a Colt .45? Sure, they'll still have Kevlar vests, but all the crook has to do is aim for heads and feet. But maybe your contry's government manages to somehow get rid of all guns within their borders and keep any more from coming in. Maybe they even manage to convince most of the population that guns are evil. Only now there's a disagreement with the government of a nearby country, and that other country gets fired up and decides to attack yours. You have no military, and even if you do they have no guns, and you can bet the other army is using them. The reason we need guns in this enlightened day and age is fairly simple. It's human nature. Unless you can convince everyone in the world not to use or keep guns, guns are going to be moderately necessary. And you'll never convince every gun-owner in the world, between the ones that keep them for protection and the ones that keep them for sport, that guns are evil and should be given up. That's getting a little off-topic, though; regardless of what it does or what it's used for, how can a chunk of metal be evil? It doesn't choose to be a gun. It doesn't choose to be a killing machine. It's harmful. It's not evil, any more than a rainstorm or a rockslide is. <> That sounds a little hypocritical to me. Granted, to an extent we're willing to accept things in books that we aren't willing to accept in real life; that's why the popular tongue-in-cheek definition of an adventure is someone else having a hell of a hard time a thousand miles away. But what makes swords in books better than sword in real-life midieval England? Beyond show, swords don't have much of a purpose in modern society, but their purpose at that time was solely to kill (excluding dress swords, which don't precisely count), just as their purpose in Misty's books is. Why is a sword good in a book but evil in real life? Is a gun good in a book too? Zha'hai'allav'a, Raven Darkblade "Good and evil... and their merits... Men have argued through hist'ry as well they should... My philosophy... any child can see... Good is evil, and therefore all evil is... Good." --Lucy, "Good 'n' Evil" from Jekyll & Hyde. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1850 **********************************