MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1851 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Thanks / Evil by "Alexia/Sabrina" 2) MLML Evil/Textevd/Moondance by Peter Allen 3) Re: Guns and Drugs (was Re: Evil) by Kenneth Allen Hyde 4) Re: Beautiful Characters by Obsidian 5) MESSAGE FORWARDED FROM AERDEN by AERDEN-+AT+-delphi.com 6) Re: Why didn't Florian "choose" Karal? by "Sheridan Hoy" 7) Hey all by "Kalen [One In Black]" <95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk> 8) RE: Worst Fan Story Award by "Morgaine" 9) RE: Beautiful Characters by "Shaffer, Erin Elizabeth" 10) Heyla list sibs by "Quietfire k'T'more" 11) Re: Hey all by "Angie" 12) Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 1846 by "Kristy Lyseng" 13) Re: Beautiful Characters by Amber Bay 14) Re: Heyla list sibs by "Micheal Bowen" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:21:58 -0000 From: "Alexia/Sabrina" To: Subject: Re: Thanks / Evil Message-ID: <011001be449a$f54d78a0$e8c828c3-+AT+-i.casale> >Not unless you make being an addict a "fashionable" (SP?) thing.Drugs are illegal because a addicts cannot work as member of a human society, therefore use of drugs should be discouraged.If we make drugs legal, there is the obvious problem of how to getthem to the people that want to use them. On solution is through healthdepartments.You would only turn governments into drugs providers and putthe burden of addicts on the shoulders of those that are NOT addicts.I don't think this would work. Furthermore legal distribution of drugsdoes not mean that they are provided for free. If drugs are not free, therewould be crime to obtain the money to pay for them. If they are free, butunder controlled distribution, you have a black market to provide those that don't want to be known as addict, or want more that they can get from public distribution (by the way, this has been tried in Switzerland and turned into a major disaster). Part of drugs being fashionable is BECAUSE they are illegal... they're a well known form of rebellion... most people find half or more of the lure of drugs is that 'you're not supposed to do them'. If drugs were legalised they be cheaper and it would be much easy to check that they didn't have additives to fill out the bulk which is what does a lot of the damage... an allegory for this... sex is illegal in prisoners... in Switzerland they prisons provided condoms because they knew the inmates would have sex and it was better than they have sex with precautions... this serves the same purpose as legalising drugs. The majority of tests like these have been enourmously successful- look at Holland for what legalising drugs did to their crime rate. I think the maion confusion here is saying that drugs are legal and saying that using them is OK. Those are very different things... though they might not seem so at first. Anyway... just MHO > >Don't forget their female counterpart. They are less common, but they exist. The number of female sexual abusers of children or other adults is TINY compared to the number of males. Violent crime in females is HUGELY less prevalent than in males. Sexual abuse is something that is EXTREMELY rare in females. Females could be involved in abuse- as a madame or a pimp but the females themselves are VERYVERYVERYVERY rarely the abusers themselves. Thanks to everyone who answered my question about colds... Gotta think of another question... Kay... Is there any sexual abuse in Chrome circle, Wheels of Fire, Bedlam's Bard, Spirit Ride or ELvendude ? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 13:34:05 -0500 From: Peter Allen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: MLML Evil/Textevd/Moondance Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990120133405.007cc9c0-+AT+-pop3.frontiernet.net> I wrote: ><then it means each person must accept responsibility for their own actions >and use their own judgement to decide if an act is good or not. Oh, woe is >humankind... *giggle* ;)>> And Morgaine replied: >How can it be differently? I MUST accept responsibility for MY own actions >and use MY own judgement to decide if an act is good or not. Morality (or >right and wrong) cannot be decided through a majority vote. If I make a >different choice from the society I live in, I will face the >consequences, but I will not allow them to make the choice for me. >By the way, according to your hypothesis, if I live in a society where >slavery is accepted, it is also right to have slaves. I don't think (?) you >will subscribe to this. Oh, no, I don't subscribe to this at all :). It is my personal belief that all life is valuable, but that human life is valuable only if one has the freedom in which to enjoy it :). The point that I was making above was trying to show what some people I have seen (not on this list) believe in, ie taking away the ability for someone to own a gun because Society™ says that people aren't wise enough to figure out how/when to use them. I believe that there are a good number of people out there that know how to use them for bad purposes, but as you say, they should be held responsible for those acts. You make very valid points in your statements, and ones that I abide by myself as well. You can ask some of my friends, and they can tell you how stubborn I can be about being able to decide what I am going to do *g* ;). --- Lady G wrote (in regard to less power): >Where's that? It's not that I doubt your word, but I'd just like to read it >for myself I actually remember reading something to that effect, but where!? In Winds of Change (paperback), pg 338: " He stretched and sat up on his couch. Discontent weighed his shoulders like a too-heavy garment. In the days that he was Ma'ar, he would merely have had to stretch out his hands to have them all -- But the power that was so rich and free in his day as Ma'ar was a poor thing now. Shattered and scattered, dust in the storm. Like his power, his empire was a small thing. He was constrained to harbor allies he would never have suffered in the old days. For a moment, he felt a kind of shame, that he should be reduced to this meager existence. Yet what had worked in the long-ago days could work now, if only on a smaller scale." --- Lady Aphrael wrote: >Moondance soothed the pain of Vanyel's mind channels but it didn't involve >any physical healing. If he had really been able to "heal" people he would >be able to knit bones back together and do all of the physical acts of >healing. If I am remembering right I don't think he ever displayed this >ability. Magic's Pawn (paperback), pg 265: " [Starwind] closed his hand; Moondance touched the back of it, and he opened it again. The slash in his palm had been Healed with the speed of thought. At eighteen the young outlander now calling himself "Moondance" was well on his way to becoming that rarest of mages, a Healer-Adpet." Wow.. two textevd's, and it only took me a half-hour to find them... didn't know I still had it in me *g*. Bright thy day, Wintershard Councilor of Mist http://www.herald.co.uk/local_info/rules_thumb.html http://www.ling.udel.edu/hyde/pers/misty/newbiefest.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 13:58:06 -0500 (EST) From: Kenneth Allen Hyde To: Misty Lackey List Subject: Re: Guns and Drugs (was Re: Evil) Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Jan 1999, Amber Bay wrote: > HOWEVER, to what purpose do guns serve...they may only kill, in my > opinion...i don't know if there is another purpose to which they > serve...and i think that most people would agree that "killing" is > inherently evil... I certainly wouldn't agree with that, and I know that I'm not alone. No-one who eats meat (the overwhelming majority of the world's population) would agree with the statement that *all* killing is evil. I don't even agree that killing *humans* is always bad. There are any number of kinds of people that I think should be killed: child-molesters, serial rapists, serial killers, professional drug dealers (street mimes--sorry *grin*, I just had to throw that one in--Go Lord Vetinari!). The amount of damage that these people do, both to their direct victims and to the people around their victims is more than enough to persuade *me* (if no-one else, and I don't expect everyone to agree with me) that the world could only be improved by getting rid of these criminals. Of course, this isn't the direct issue. As far as guns go, I don't think they are evil. A gun can be a work of art, with no reference to it's function as a weapon or method of killing. Then, on Wed, 20 Jan 1999, Abigail Laughlin wrote: > You have a very good point here... will drugs like heroin and crack ever > be made legal? Will the deaths resulting from overdoses be less than the > current deaths caused by junkies robbing businesses to pay dealer's > prices or the deaths from stretchers in the drugs put in by dealers to > expand their supply? The world may never know. Or perhaps it will, to its regret. I can't help but think that the devastation would remain constant. True, there might be fewer deaths related to the business of drugs (gangland killings, etc), but the devastation caused by the wider availability and distribution of drugs would be much worse than it is currently. Right now, there are many people who are not harmed by drugs simply because they cannot get them. If they could get them, they would use (and abuse) them. And I'll be honest, among all the people that I know who use drugs for non-medical reasons, I have never yet seen a single person whose life was improved by them. Without exception, every drug user I have ever known has been damaged by drugs in some way. And most of them don't even recognize the damage done to themselves, so they continue to do it. Drugs seems to be one of those things that are extremely destructive (to everyone around them, not just the users) and yet extremely attractive at the same time, and while I'm all for letting people make their own decisions and ruin their own lives as thoroughly as they want, I think that it's a good idea to limit their availability as much as possible. Hmmmm. Sorry to rant like this, but after seeing what drugs have done to some of my friends, and to certain members of my family, I'm very sensitive on the subject. I doubt if there is anything in the world that can persuade me that the widespread availability of drugs can ever be considered a good thing (although, I agree that drugs, in and of themselves, are no more good or evil than any other substance). ObMisty: Given some of the characterizations of drug-using characters in her books (in CotN, LHM, etc.), I get the impression that Misty doesn't think using recreational drugs can ever be a good thing, either. May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd Councilor of Mist Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me //www.ling.udel.edu/hyde/prof/ken.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 19:52:54 -0800 From: Obsidian To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Beautiful Characters Message-ID: <36A6A495.754CB81-+AT+-softhome.net> Hey Guys, Me again. Changed my member name. You might remember me from before. Anyway, I was just wondering. Has anyone noticed that most of Misty's characters in her books are beautiful. I mean, you rarely see an ugly character, except maybe for Dirk, but I've never read the Arrow's of the Queens series and I'm only basing my facts on what I heard. But if you've noticed, either the main character or more are beautiful and never over weight (At least the males). And the rest are just average. I mean take Vanyel, Firesong, Stefen, Tylendal, Karal, Darkwind, Kris, Falconsbane, even Charliss and Kero. Aren't Tarma and Kethry supposed to be beautiful too? (Sorry, haven't read the Oathbound series, either, but I'm guessing. Elspeth wasn't supposed to be physically beautiful but her face showed so much character she could have easily been considered beautiful. Why is this? Maybe it's because people like characters who are beautiful or look good. Who knows. Is it just me, or has someone else noticed this? Anyway, enough of my silly ranting, just trying to bring up a new subject. Obsidian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 23:14:22 -0500 (EST) From: AERDEN-+AT+-delphi.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: MESSAGE FORWARDED FROM AERDEN Message-ID: <01J6S4R2EEUA9BX5LN-+AT+-delphi.com> #1 19-JAN-1999 22:33:10.63 NEWMAIL From: IN%"SIMEGEN-L-+AT+-SIMEGEN.COM" "A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom" To: IN%"SIMEGEN-L-+AT+-SIMEGEN.COM" CC: Subj: Worst Fan Story Award Return-path: Received: from simegen.com ([203.2.135.4]) by delphi.com (PMDF V5.1-8 #23839) with ESMTP id <01J6QP0IQ1TS98MHN7-+AT+-delphi.com> for AERDEN-+AT+-delphi.com; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 22:32:54 EST Received: from simegen.com (keon) [203.2.135.4] (listserv) by simegen.com with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #1 (Debian)) id 102p5X-0003Oe-00; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:17:55 +1000 Received: from SIMEGEN.COM by SIMEGEN.COM (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8c) with spool id 0330 for SIMEGEN-L-+AT+-SIMEGEN.COM; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:17:53 +1000 Received: from ids2.idsonline.com [205.177.236.32] by simegen.com with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #1 (Debian)) id 102p5S-0003OZ-00; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:17:51 +1000 Received: from coyote.idsonline.com (balto-ts1-port067.x-press.net [209.150.113.67]) by ids2.idsonline.com (8.8.8/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA15876 for ; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 22:15:23 -0500 Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 22:34:54 -0500 From: coyote Subject: Worst Fan Story Award Sender: A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom X-Sender: coyote-+AT+-idsonline.com To: SIMEGEN-L-+AT+-SIMEGEN.COM Reply-to: A discussion list for Sime~Gen Fandom Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi, folks Thought you might enjoy a good laugh for today. How 'bout this scenario for a Worst Fan Story Award....? Risa ambrov Keon is unexpected host to Jaelle n'ha Melora, who flies in with Weyrwoman Lessa on dragon queen Ramoth's back. They want Risa to help them form a local chapter of the Renunciates. Meanwhile, Lazarus Long lands Star Yacht Dora in front of Klyd Farris's front porch in Zeor, and an FSP brainship follows suit. They scare off all the sheep, and Dora tries to persuade the brainship to let rejuvenator Ishtar Hardy Long clone her a new body. Trouble is, they don't know whether they want it to be Sime or Gen. Meanwhile, war is brewing. Regis Hastur and Leonie of Arilinn emerge from the Dora and side with the Tecton, while Damon Ridenow and the Forbidden Tower people make an alliance with the Distect in which they plan to have Heralds of Valdemar take over the Tecton and teach them what Companions really are. Drytown bandits join forces with Freeband Raiders, while Gandalf is concerned that Tecton Channel and Donor's rings have been contaminated by Sauron and may be used to control the Tecton. A channel imprints on a chieri, starting a whole new race of Simes and Gens with telepathic powers, and Free Amazons protest against Channel's Exemption... (Who will pick up on the story from here? ) Seanara (who is in a silly mood tonight) "Magic is afoot; the Goddess is ahead." ~ coyote-+AT+-idsonline.com ~ ---------- You are subscribed to the SIMEGEN-L list. To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to LISTSERV-+AT+-SIMEGEN.COM with no subject and the text "unsubscribe SIMEGEN-L". ---------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 18:52:27 +1300 From: "Sheridan Hoy" To: Subject: Re: Why didn't Florian "choose" Karal? Message-ID: <01be4502$39926860$76d937d2-+AT+-tamlin.sinesurf.co.nz> I am going to delurk now that my modem is finally fixed, and answer this question: I suppose that the reason Karal wasn't chosen was the same reason Natoli wasn't, and remember Talia seemed surprised that she hadn't considering her father was a Herald; they both had things to do that were more important and only they could do them.....taking them away to be Heralds would have left a gap....makes sense really, because Heralds seems to be chosen when they are needed, and those two were needed but not as Heralds. I also agree with those who mentioned Altra; Florian wouldn't want to interfere with that. Wind to thy Wings, tamlin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 11:55:13 GMT From: "Kalen [One In Black]" <95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk> To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Hey all Message-ID: ~fluff~ Kalen enters the Halls and walks over to the OIB tent. Well I'm back. Why is it that when you go to a funeral [even that of your mother] you seem to not know over half the people there? Well after a week of meetings with lawyers etc to get guardianship of my youngest sister and securing the house I am finally back in manchester with all it own problems. Does anyone know long, on average medical negligance cases take? I'm glad to be back on the list. Anything mind shattering happen in the 2 weeks since I was here last? ********************************************** "Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here, we might as well dance." Kalen [OIB] 95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk, uthro-+AT+-hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Rapids/7701/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 14:03:09 +0100 From: "Morgaine" To: Subject: RE: Worst Fan Story Award Message-ID: <000601be453e$6554fcb0$656410ac-+AT+-pc01.tc-systems.com> Someone wrote (Seanara, Aeden or Coyote, but I think the latter, because he is a trickster): << Thought you might enjoy a good laugh for today. How 'bout this scenario for a Worst Fan Story Award....? >> Who would dare? The only thing missing is a Lensman coming to arrest everybody for unhautorized interdimensional crossing. Ob-misty: While I was searching for the name of the ship, I visited this page http://members.mint.net/kinzel/congru2.htm it is a list of writers compiled from a survey of a "group of readers who want fun out of a book, who like characters more than hardware, and who appreciate an occassional understated pun or a twist of quiet irony" Misty is pretty high in the list, but many of my best loved writers are in the list. Is it the same for you? Wind to thy wings Morgaine, the Were-Cat A distant cousin to the Cheshire Cat Member of The Ones In Black "I am the Cat who walks by himself, and all places are alike to me" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 07:54:22 -0600 From: "Shaffer, Erin Elizabeth" To: "'mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk'" Subject: RE: Beautiful Characters Message-ID: >I mean take Vanyel, Firesong, Stefen, Tylendal, Karal, Darkwind, Kris, >Falconsbane, >even Charliss and Kero. Vanyel, Firesong, Tylendel, Kris, and Falconsbane yes. But Falconsbane made himself that way so it doesn't count. I don't think Darkwind was anymore beautiful that any Tayledras (An ugly taledras? Yeah, right!), Charliss was good looking? I don't remember that. Kero, yes, but that's mostly her power and physical fitness. If she were an inkeeper would she be concidered cute? I doubt it. And Stefen was not more beautiful than many guys, but yes, he was concidered so because he was lifebonded to Vanyel, and so of course he was concidered cute. As for Karal, I don't remember anything about this said. Davin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 06:22:36 -0800 (PST) From: "Quietfire k'T'more" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Heyla list sibs Message-ID: <19990121142236.932.rocketmail-+AT+-send501.yahoomail.com> Hey there all you people! Just writting to let those of you who like the Tayledras that there is a Vale set up now in Geocities that needs your membership! Have a looksy at the site, please! And please feelfree to join, we really need new members. Thanks for listening to me blab! Davin _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free -+AT+-yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 22:41:26 +0800 From: "Angie" To: Subject: Re: Hey all Message-ID: <01be454c$1f98ef20$0100007f-+AT+-heraldtg> :~fluff~ :Kalen enters the Halls and walks over to the OIB tent. :Well I'm back. Why is it that when you go to a funeral [even that of :your mother] you seem to not know over half the people there? oh, i'm sorry to hear about your mom's passing... hope everything works out. :( i'm sorry, i'm terrible with these things. and no, i don't think anything really mindshattering happened... hmm... charliss? on the same list as stef and van? you've got to be joking... zzzz sheep to everyone... *zzzzz* wind to thy wings shadowblade minus the big sig ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 07:44:17 PST From: "Kristy Lyseng" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 1846 Message-ID: <19990121154418.20520.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> Heyla! I'm going to make this really short. Sorry, people, if I haven't responded to any e-mail that has been sent to me, but I'm doing the whole Diploma Exam thing and since my computer at home doesn't have the Internet, I can't check my e-mail. I'll be back in February, so wish me luck on my tests! Love, Light and Laughter, Kristy (a.k.a. Noema, Dewshine, Starsong, and Silverstorm) P.S.:Hey, Yvonne! Looks like we'll have to hold off on our Canadian World Domination, eh? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 11:46:50 -0500 (EST) From: Amber Bay To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Beautiful Characters Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Jan 1999, Obsidian wrote: > Anyway, I was just wondering. Has anyone noticed that most of Misty's characters in > her books are beautiful. ARRRRGGGHHHHH!!!!...(prepare for rant mode)... i agree with you a thousand times over...it's always a sore point with me that most characters in books have the tendency to look beautiful, have perfect bodies, and/or be incredibly sexy...i will concede that Misty's characters have a tendency to be a bit plainer than most, but the resemblence is still there... and i know....many people argue that if the characters were NOT beautiful, nobody would care for those characters...people argue that nobody wants to read about real people, they want the fantasy...and i'll concede that... and , i realize that the time period that most fantasy writers write in is drastically different from our time period...people didn't have a chance to get..ahem..bigger...they either didn't have enough food or were working all the time...and fighters would probably be physically fit.... BUT, it's not like i'm asking for a book with ALL plain-as-dirt people...just ONE once in a while would be nice...give a character a physical defect, make them have a love for fattening foods, make them plain-as-dirt... sorry, but this is an incredibly sore point with me...as a person who does NOT have stunning looks and isn't terribly thin, it always annoys me that most portrayels of people in books/movies/media tend to be beautiful....it's probably jealousy that i feel this way...in fact, i know it is (sigh)... anyways, i write when i can and when i do, i try to not make all my characters perfect...i've written several plump female characters...i've written some people with scars on their faces...i try not to be lured too deeply into the syndrome "make your characters inhumanly beautiful and perfect"... anyways, i'll stop ranting now...by now, i'm sure people are thinking "what's HER problem?"... quick question: does anyone else on this list worry about good and evil??..recently i read Piers Anthony's series "Incarnations of Immortality" (very good read, btw, i highly reccommend it)...and those books compounded with the recent philosophy class i completed have made me worry about good and evil and the state of the world...i'm trying to figure out how good *i* am and whether that goodness stems from resisting temptation or from the fact that i haven't had the chance to be evil...it's very trying... anyways, i've gotta fly...wind to thy wings listsibs... ~Ice ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 10:58:19 CST From: "Micheal Bowen" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Heyla list sibs Message-ID: <19990121165820.29473.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> Davin What is the url for this vale. Are there any other vales out there. If so my i please have the urls. Well thats all for now. "TRUTH, JUSTICE, COMMITMENT, & LOYALTY ABOVE ALL" LORD RAVEN Black Gryphon ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1851 **********************************