MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1881 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Major VENT by "Kalen [One In Black]" <95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk> 2) Re: Major VENT by "W. Shawn Welty" 3) Re: how-old thread... by "Judy Craigo" 4) Re: books & age level LONG by Julia Gray 5) Misty Books for younger ppl by Becky Cary 6) RE: Reading for youngsters by Lisa Whitman 7) MIST: RPGs are a no-no (was Re: Help) by Kenneth Allen Hyde 8) RE: books & age level, re-reading books by "L. J. Thompson" 9) Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 1879 by Lynne Walker 10) hey i'm a newbie by "charlotte distefano" 11) Re: Misty Books for younger ppl by "Alexia/Sabrina" 12) Re: Major VENT by "Janet Bowen" 13) children's reading by "Alexia/Sabrina" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 13:01:19 GMT From: "Kalen [One In Black]" <95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk> To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Major VENT Message-ID: Why are people such _______? [ fill in as you see fit.] I got a phonecall off my sister yesterday telling me that someone had trashed my mothers grave. Wrecked the flowers and stole a small teddy bear off it. I really think people like that should be strung up and the family wronged should be allowed to kick the _____ out of them. I am sooooo glad that I am a OIB and not a Herald as Bloodfeud is what I want. Sorry all Kalen ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:53:27 -0500 (EST) From: "W. Shawn Welty" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Major VENT Message-ID: *lurking shields deactivated* This goes way too far! Kalen, you are not alone in this. If I were in your shoes, I too would swear Bloodfeud. Believe me you are not alone on this one. OBMisty: Who would be the most likely person to 'consult' on such an issue? Tarma, perhaps? ((Sorry, been away for a while and I know this is a pretty lame attempt to stay on the topic of this list.) Rogue Phoenix On Fri, 19 Feb 1999, Kalen [One In Black] wrote: Why are people such _______? [ fill in as you see fit.] I got a phonecall off my sister yesterday telling me that someone had trashed my mothers grave. Wrecked the flowers and stole a small teddy bear off it. I really think people like that should be strung up and the family wronged should be allowed to kick the _____ out of them. I am sooooo glad that I am a OIB and not a Herald as Bloodfeud is what I want. Sorry all Kalen ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "This I think I have learned: where there is love, the form does not matter, and the gods are pleased. This I have observed: what occurs in nature, comes by the hand of nature, and if the gods did not approve, it would not be there. I give you these things as food for your heart and mind." Moondance k'Treva to Vanyel in "Magic's Pawn" by Mercedes Lackey ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "Zhai'helleva ashke' tal'sedr'in" -Old Valdemaran Proverb. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 08:22:08 PST From: "Judy Craigo" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: how-old thread... Message-ID: <19990219162208.9968.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> greetings all out of lurkdom i come! i just wanted to add my two cents on the how-old topic i think i started reading misty at 11, maybe 12 and the first book i read was LHM. i thought it was the best thing i had ever read because it was the first time i came across a saych character in a book. my mother is saych and it was comforting to read something where the lifestye wasn't seen in a negative light 'sides at that point i two was stealing books off my parents shelves and had plowed through the "clan of the cave bear" and the other subsequent novels that came after sigh... but i would have to agree that owlsight and the arrows books should be good, though the themes present in the other books might lead to a good introduction to things of that nature on other topics: is there anyone on the list in the boston area? i would love to meet up with people who read misty ('cause i can't find anyone in my school) and i would love to talk face to face with someone anyway i will decend back to lurkdom judy (known as fresnel) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:04:03 -0600 From: Julia Gray To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: books & age level LONG Message-ID: <36CD9982.67B434FA-+AT+-oakton.edu> L. J. Thompson wrote: > If you don't care about the > what-age-to-let-kids-start-reading-Misty-books-thread, then you might as > well stop reading now. Ditto I am going to try to not take up bandwidth with a lot of quotes, so forgive me if I don't copy your response in it's entirety. I even edited my response (although it's still long....) > >Liseth then said: > >if someone is mature enough to understand implicit sexual content of a > >book they are probably mature enough to not be affected by it. I know, > >from personal experience, that it is possible to entirely miss sexual > >content in books and movies even if you read/watch them incessantly. I think this is true in general - depending on your personal background/history/knowledge, you are going to get different things out of a book than someone with a different background/history/knowledge. If you don't have the sexual knowledge, the sexual parts will go over your head. As a parallel, when you go back to re-read some of misty's work, your knowledge of her world has increased and you get some of the references you might have missed before. > L. J. Thompson wrote: I think that the important thing to remember when selecting books for children is not > their age but their maturity level. One 12 year old may be ready for books that another 15 year old may not be > ready for yet. But I think that all of the Misty books that I've read (all of the Valdemar books except the > Oath books) are probably Not a Good Idea for most kids to read until at least middle school.*snip* For > example, I read a young adult novel by Tanith Lee called _Black Unicorn_back in early middle school. I rather > liked it, so I went to the public library to see what else she had written. I ended up with a copy of _The > Secret Books of Paradys Book One: The Book of the Damned_, which was definitely not appropriate for a middle > schooler! (Although I rather liked some of the stories in it, it probably would have given my parents no > shortage of grey hairs if they had noticed.) Okay, I copied a lot here - and my responses are meant as general questions, not as a flame :-) and reflect my opinions only (not that of any governing body) First, why would someone censure any book at any age level? Children are much more apt to put a book down if it's too much over their head. If it isn't, if they want to read it, would you really stop them? In this example, you said you enjoyed some of the stories in the inappropriate book - what, then was inappropriate about it? Most kids (heck, people) self-censure - like you did with the book above. IMNSHO, if a child is interested in reading a book, i'm not going to stop him/her because of the content - a child is more likely to stop him/herself or do some type of self-censure of the contents if s/he thinks it inappropriate - and a child would be a much better judge of what is inappropriate for him/herself than I would ever be. This goes back to the first statement in the paragraph above - I think that books are going to be read by children/teens/adults when they are ready to read them. If the original post was more of a "what would be accesible to a younger reader, say, 7-10" that's a different question - reading skills, like language abilities, logic, understanding plot devices etc. have to be taken into account. More complex logic and reasoning (like complex cause and effect and jokes and riddles) isn't understood until after 3rd gradeish (8-9ish), so some of the plot and plot devices of misty may be hard for an average younger reader to understand - as well as some of the ideas such as honor and faith and other complex theories (some of which aren't fully grasped until adolescence - not to impugn on anyone here - if y'all didn't get it, you wouldn't be here :-) Lastly, although a child might not be able to read a more complex book by him/herself, a book can be read aloud that's several years beyond their reading "level". Soo....if you're looking for something that would - based on reading ability, not contents- be okay for an early reader (say 8 years or above), I would think of the owl series as a read-out-loud book. Unless the child is precocious and wants to read it by him/herself so you don't have to read it out loud. I'd review them first, though..... *steps off soapbox* obmisty: How many of her major characters have "normal" childhoods? I was thinking that it seemed almost as though she has a great number of her characters have problems in their childhood or early teens (talia, elspeth, kero, skif, darkwind, tarma) ... if you don't overcome (or be subject to) adversity of some sort early in life, does that mean you don't have the tools to do it later? j ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 13:54:59 -0500 (EST) From: Becky Cary To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Misty Books for younger ppl Message-ID: Hmmm.... I would think Arrows of the Queen would be ok, and probably the Oath books too. For slightly older kids, maybe Children of the Night (the sex is implicit, and the violence not that major, plus I think it would be a pretty exciting book). I don't know about Fire Rose -- I actually haven't read that one. (It's a Beauty & the Beast retelling, and I've been told it's pretty good.) Some of her short stories, like Fiddler Fair, would also probably be ok. And (non-Misty) anything by Robin McKinley (except maybe Deerskin) should be fine. Completely off-topic, does anyone here know the semantic origins of the Curse of the Pink Wand? I've had people ask me where that phrase comes from, and I wasn't entirely sure. Becky -------------- In general, France is a safe travel destination, though travelers are advised that, from time to time, it is invaded by Germany. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 09:05:58 -0800 From: Lisa Whitman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: RE: Reading for youngsters Message-ID: -snip- >I think maybe Owlflight (though >there is violence, I don't remember too many sex issues >in there). Plus it's a younger "hero". Maybe Arrows of >the Queen (although there is Keren, Ylsa, and >Sherril..), but not much violence. Also maybe Chrome >Circle; not much sex or violence (if you disregard >Tannim's dreams!!). -snip- Ummm.... reading for youngster-types. Actually, I would not recommend the Arrows series. There's a particularly nasty torture scene (for young readers.) "When they crushed her feet..." Thinking back, I don't think that Misty's work is appropriate for young readers. There's a lot of fairly sophisticated issues that are dealt with. That's a shame since her writing style itself is well suited to a young audience...gripping and easily understandable. Star ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 13:57:43 -0500 (EST) From: Kenneth Allen Hyde To: Misty Lackey List Subject: MIST: RPGs are a no-no (was Re: Help) Message-ID: On Fri, 19 Feb 1999, Obsidian wrote: > Yes, there is a going to be an rpg game based on Misty's books. Okay. To remind everyone! It is *illegal* to create a role-playing game based on the work of an author, without first getting (in writing) permission to do so. Specifically, Misty-based RPGs are illegal, and Misty has stated on numerous occasions that she is willing to prosecute anyone who does create one without her permission. That fact being stated, here comes the rest of it. If you decide that you are going to break the law (and btw, I should mention that it may be a felony, rather than a misdemeanor), we can't stop you but don't do it here. Especially, do not, and I repeat this, *do not* use the Misty List to announce or publicize your illegal behavior and do not use the MLML to solicit other people to join in. This puts Aunti Mel at risk legally, and is thoroughly and unambiguously covered in the Newbie Fest. Putting our List-Mistress at risk is a surefire guarantee to get you privately flamed to a crisp by the many people on this list who consider her a friend. This is not a flame. It's a warning shot across the bow. May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd Councilor of Mist Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me //www.ling.udel.edu/hyde/prof/ken.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:56:54 -0800 From: "L. J. Thompson" To: "'mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk'" Subject: RE: books & age level, re-reading books Message-ID: <01BE5BF6.93943A40-+AT+-BASIL> Julia Gray said: (in reference to my comment that the book I read was inappropriate for my age) > In this >example, you said you enjoyed some of the stories in the inappropriate book - what, >then was inappropriate about >it? Well, in that case, I was speaking from the perspective that many adults have, that they are some aspects of life that we should "shelter" youngsters from. I personally see nothing wrong with someone reading whatever they want, but that essay was primarily directed at parents, who may have more restrictive ideas about what their children should read. Oh, and another thought on a topic that more of the list may care about... I would assume that most of you on the list probably read Misty books more than once. (I know I do!) Do you read most books that you like more than once, or just Misty books? I have a dratted hard time finding Misty books in used book stores, and the owners say that it is because more people want to buy them than sell them. (which I understand!) So, is it that the people who read Misty books tend to be people who like to re-read books, or it is that the Misty books are the sort of thing that are so worth re-reading that even people who normally read books only once tend to re-read them? Or am I babbling? Yes, that seems more likely. So I'll stop now. :) L.J. Thompson ICQ #6886878 begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(-+AT+-`2`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!-+AT+-`(````Y 0```````#H``$(-+AT+- <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0-+AT+-36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````-+AT+-`"``$$ MD 8`Z $```$````0`````P``, (````+``\.``````(!_P\!````5P`````` M``"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````&UE4!H97)A;&0N M8V\N=6L`4TU44 !M97)C961E``(P M`0````4```!33510`````!X``S !````'0```&UE4!H M97)A;&0N8V\N=6L``````P`5# $````#`/X/!-+AT+-```!X``3 !````'P```"=M M97)C961E4!H97)A;&0N8V\N=6L` M`````-+AT+-'W7P$```!7`````````($K'Z2^HQ 9G6X`W0$/5 (`````;65R8V5D M97,M;&%C:V5Y0&AE4!H M97)A;&0N8V\N=6L```,`_5\!`````P#_7P`````"`?8/`0````0````````" M`6\!!( !`"-+AT+-```!213H-+AT+-8F]O:W,-+AT+-)B!A9V4-+AT+-;&5V96PL(')E+7)E861I;F<-+AT+- M8F]O:W,`0-+AT+-T!!8 #``X```#/!P(`$P`*`#-+AT+-`--+AT+-`%`&-+AT+-!`2" `P`.````SP<" M`!,`"-+AT+-`L`! `!0`V`0$)-+AT+- $`(0```$0W.$1#0T0Y13=#-T0R,3%".#!!,#!% M,#(Y,C`!X,`0`` M``4```!33510`````!X`'PP!````#P```&QJ=$!L8VQA `C ?&J 1`!MR&I & MX&]K(())&-+AT+-%A9"!W800-+AT+-<0N 87!P`V =8 411 )&0I\+\R4-+AT+-0-+AT+-),$8$!HP&X1W)1'J: A-+AT+-;!S (C;P M+V =T'QR(B,2#R E,#(A,7,N;QQA,A("( = ;!D!"> -+AT+-=Q:0(#$Q47<#8#IR M+7!HWR1C%J$<-+AT+-SIC&Z%E,J %P.\TDRG-+AT+-`C C`&(K,!N$!Y#_&2 ]$-+AT+-0-+AT+-'9$` MP 40.;$\`+\40!_ )$$;L0JQ&U%S(P#_)W :P1CQ,^(:T 6P.[(E,/\%$#)T M&4 8/T:H7 -X#+%09(DQ1-+AT+-0)3#O0.,P,#3Q*P,N2R P-+AT+-C<3 M^2GP8_]0H2=P#> [,!QP." $-+AT+-24P\T;Q48%3 M;R^1'0$;>5U&_T#!3K\=T%JB7A%B.U.S&K']%$ M')-/8U3C7!0;ET\*_S3B M)/,)$22T,4(;DS3D2W'_`" [,&7U:><\D0.-+AT+-8ED6D/YR`, YHF8H2"$YL5!B M9 ?W9?9>%MOT^E4[(YL#CP82 < M8"=?,=4E,7 Z$7I1=4Z$PN2CCP5#<`(L Y80$75$E#42 C-CAR.';P M-S-+AT+-K6A=R$?$``7B-+AT+-``,`$! ``````P`1$ `````#`( 0_____T `!S"-+AT+-S53: M-UR^`4 `"#"-+AT+-S53:-UR^`0L`'X (( 8``````, ```````!&``````.%```` M`````P`A-+AT+- -+AT+--+AT+-!-+AT+-``````P ```````$8`````$(4````````#`"2 "" &```` M``# ````````1-+AT+-````!2A0``MPT```,`*( (( 8``````, ```````!&```` M``&%`````````P`P-+AT+- -+AT+--+AT+-!-+AT+-``````P ```````$8`````$84````````>`#. M"" &``````# ````````1-+AT+-````!4A0```0````0````X+C `"P`W-+AT+- -+AT+--+AT+-!-+AT+-`` M````P ```````$8`````#H4````````#`#F "" &``````# ````````1-+AT+-`` M```8A0```````!X`2( (( 8``````, ```````!&`````#:%```!`````0`` M```````>`$F "" &``````# ````````1-+AT+-`````WA0```0````$````````` M'-+AT+-!*-+AT+- -+AT+--+AT+-!-+AT+-``````P ```````$8`````.(4```$````!`````````!X`/0`! 9````!0```%)%.B ``````P`--/TW``"PU84` ` end ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:01:06 -0800 (PST) From: Lynne Walker To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 1879 Message-ID: <19990219200106.15563.rocketmail-+AT+-send204.yahoomail.com> Heyla listsibs, ---Ellen K Fluharty wrote: >I know the > time is far off, but I've begun to wonder which books if any would be > appropriate for before she reaches the age of 12. (Misty books that is.)... >So, I guess the question is, Are there any books by Misty that you (my > listsibs) would think appropriate for younger children (7-10) ? _ A lot of people have made good suggestions, I agree with most of them. However, as a parent, has it occurred to you that certain of Misty's books could be just read-aloud books? It would not be too difficult to "snip" bits out if you went through the books beforehand to determine what to cut. I'm not advocating censorship by any means, just going from a PG-13 to a G rating. It's something you might want to think about anyways. Thanks to all who sent sympathy, I'm slowly back on the mend. Lady Starlight (soon to be hopefully) Goddess of Masques == I'm a bitch/I'm a lover I'm a child/I'm a mother I'm a sinner/I'm a saint I do not feel ashamed "Bitch" - Merideth Brooks _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free -+AT+-yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:21:45 PST From: "charlotte distefano" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: hey i'm a newbie Message-ID: <19990219202147.5615.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> Hey all, i just joined the list. I'm , from northern california, if anyone cares about my real life. As far as role playing goes, my friends hve dubbed me "Herald Talia", because they thimk my personlity is like her's. Anyway, if anyone cares to chat, I'd be interested. Herald Talia, or Charlotte ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 21:18:16 -0000 From: "Alexia/Sabrina" To: "misty" Subject: Re: Misty Books for younger ppl Message-ID: <064a01be5c4e$aec98740$84c828c3-+AT+-i.casale> >Hmmm.... I would think Arrows of the Queen would be ok, and probably the >Oath books too. I don't think the Oath Books are really a good idea. For a start, Tarma is abused by a number of people as a child and there's stuff about Kethry's abuse as well. There's also Idra's torture etc... And the demons and the merchant children who were abused and killed... That's just a little grim. I KNOW I wouldn't have wanted to read that stuff. >I don't know about Fire Rose. Definitely not. Lots about child prostitution and slave trade... Magic's Pawn would be OK I'd say. Violence and depression bit stuff that's a little less grim, grim... ack- can't find the word I want there... ya know what I mean. Personally, my parents told me about sex from day one... gave me books and stuff... and it never damaged me... I just didn't feel the need to snigger when anyone said penis in biology class... I don't think that children should have easy access to material that's enough to give them nightmares... I think sexual abuse is something that children could avoid reading about in all the details etc. I mean, why show a kid the worst side of the world first off...? Unfortunately, there are quite a few children who know more about these things than reading but I think trying to free as many children's lives from it as possible, in any form, is not a bad idea. Ick... I'm not being very eloquent at all- sorry. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 18:46:08 PST From: "Janet Bowen" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Major VENT Message-ID: <19990220024610.17407.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> Why are people such _______? [ fill in as you see fit.] Because they haven't had the proper influence or controls set on them. I got a phonecall off my sister yesterday telling me that someone had trashed my mothers grave. Wrecked the flowers and stole a small teddy bear off it. How terrible. I feel for you and can understand how you feel. Many of my ancestors graves have been so defiled. I really think people like that should be strung up and the family wronged should be allowed to kick the _____ out of them. All that would accomplish is creating more hatred and violence. This is what they look for. It will encourage them unless proper steps ore taken through the laws that they themselves set up. When their own laws are used against them they may pay better attention. I am sooooo glad that I am a OIB and not a Herald as Bloodfeud is what I want. I ask Grandfather's blessings and peace to fill you that you may walk the Star-Eyes path in proper attitude without the bloodfeud want. Sorry all No need. Kalen White Deer aka Wandering Deer Medicine Woman ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 10:08:55 -0000 From: "Alexia/Sabrina" To: "misty" Subject: children's reading Message-ID: <01b701be5cba$e5153f80$a5c928c3-+AT+-i.casale> For some reason I was thinking about the books for children thread- ditto what Lady Starlight said about reading out loud and snipping out the unpleasant bits... Anyway... I was thinking: With snips: Firebird (with a little snipping re: the father's treatment of the serb girls) Arrow's of the Queen (snip about Neave) Arrow's Flight (snip the end bit about the abusive step father) Lark and the Wren (snip bit at the start where the village boys are hassling Rune) Elvenbane/blood As is: All the bards Tales books- castle of deception, chaos gate, escape from roksamur, fortress of frost and fire, etc... ( They're a lot blander in all ways) Robin and Kestrel Eagle and Nightingales (think that's OK...) Magic's Pawn - I know I would have enjoyed that one at 10. Owl books Silver Gryphon Storm books (think those are OK) Black gryphon had some bits about the war that were REALLY nasty- those could be snipped but without the snipping that could be a bit much. White gryphon would be a BAD idea I think... Thw winds books... there's the bits with Nyara and Darkwind's father (and in WoFate about Neave's childhood) and then in Winds of Fury with the boy in the travelling circus... those are pretty nasty... Arrow's Fall... most of the bits with Talia in the prison... Fire Rose has some very unpleasant bits but they could be cut. Can't think of anything else right now... sorry for boring everyone to death:( ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1881 **********************************