MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1882 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: hey i'm a newbie by SachiAiko-+AT+-aol.com 2) MLML Reading levels by Peter Allen 3) Re: MIST: RPGs are a no-no, AND Misty for Kids. by "Abigail Laughlin" 4) Re: age level by "Kirstin Ramey" 5) Re: books and age level by "Winterstar K'Canada" 6) Re: hey i'm a newbi by "Janet Bowen" 7) Misty/sex/age by SachiAiko-+AT+-aol.com 8) Thank you/Reading by "Li'nia Stormdancer" 9) ages by "ambermoon starshadow" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 09:31:07 EST From: SachiAiko-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: hey i'm a newbie Message-ID: <22644977.36cec72b-+AT+-aol.com> ::steps quietly from lurkdom... unbelievably quiet for a large white dragon...:: Hello Newbie-type-person! ::is unsure if she should call you Talia or Charlotte in this case...Talia might not be a name usable.:: I'm Snow. I don come out often but i figured i'd welcome you.... and warn you. ::hands you a big fluffy white towel embroidered with lil sheep around the edges:: The people here.. ::coughcoughs:: They have odd ways of *welcoming* new peoples. But we are nice all in all. Jes keep the towel near-by... Anyhow... Welcome to the list! ::wraps her tail around you carefully for a moment in a dragon-hug... then thinks again and changes into a Silver haired lil human and hugs you in that form too:: Alright. Should prolly do an ObMisty... ::sighs and thinks:: Well .. Bout 10 minutes ago i finished Firebird... What did everyone think of it? I thought it was good. lots different then all the velgarth books but it was good. Course i missed Heralds and Hawkbrothers ... But i have read all of the velgarth now... twice ::chuckles:: Well.. Alright. I think das it. Sheep shaped ice-cream sandwiches for all! Snow Mistress of everything teeth-chatteringly cold "Lead. Fallow. or get out of my flight-path!" -- Keman ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 11:28:37 -0500 From: Peter Allen To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: MLML Reading levels Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990220112837.008ce7d0-+AT+-pop3.frontiernet.net> I would agree with the people that say that a person is going to be able to read what they wish when they wish. While I am also of the vein that parents should have some say over what their kids read, it can't be totally pure, otherwise you change most of the original story which, being a bit of a writer myself, is a nasty bit to have to go through with something that you have created. In my opinion, there are two factors to this. Firstly, the great majority of Misty's books (since I haven't read all of them I can't say) are located in the Young Adult section of the library for a reason (of course, we shan't go into the censorship that goes on there). While Misty's way of imagery might be easy for young people, she writes about adult matters. This is, after all, what Young Adult books are like. I have a little brother that I have read snippits of AotQ to, and while I do realize that there are some things that he'll ask me questions about, I also realize that if he enjoys the story, then that is truly what matters, and since some of the topics in the book are 'adultish,' then I will have to accept the responsibility when he asks me about those topics, no matter what my answer might be. Young Adult books are of three kinds, usually. In my own terms, you have: the 'happy fantasy,' in which all things are okay, simple, and people live through the end with the conquer of all Evil™ (lest the author be writing a sequel); the 'realistic fantasy,' which I'll term as a good amount of Misty's books, where there are some adult themes, but they are presented in such a way that a younger reader can relate to them and somehow look upon those issues to gain experience from; and finally, the 'dark fantasy,' which are developed for the type of reader that, as some have pointed out, is not exactly that young any more if they are up to reading about such serious matters. For myself, I received a Misty book (Black Gryphon) as a present when I was about 16 or so. Lucky for the person who gave it to me (and Misty later), it was exactly the type of book that I had been reading at the time. I had been borrowing from the local library a very good deal, and had yet to discover anything that she had written, otherwise I probably would have pickedher up there as well (not to mention that at the time I wasn't too 'into' reading about magical horses... was too girlish ;). I agree; if it were that I didn't understand the book enough or not relate to it in any way, then I would have put it down, as I always have done (How many of us are forced to read books in school that are at times waaay above our reading level or current-life comprehension of subjects? There is a happy medium.) I read the LHM after that, and did almost put it down, although I liked Savil too much *grin*. Reason being that it simply opened up a whole new level of thinking for me, and I wasn't that ready for it... but I have been called stubborn before, and as such drove through it to get all of the facts :). As such, I grew. And I bet that my parents still don't know that some of my fav characters are scaych, or that they had a very good impact on my thinking towards others. And that's the second point - Misty writes what she intends to relay. It is up to the reader whether or not they are up to understanding, or at least listening, to the topic at hand. As in most English classes in highschool, if you don't like it, they have to drag you kicking and screaming to read it. However, if you can relate to it (and in class this is also something that the teacher is supposed to aid in), then you'll at least read it more easily. Given all of that mumbo-jumbo above, there are a few books of Misty's that I would let my children read. The ones dealing with such things as child sexaul abuse, or have explicit rape and/or other types of torture are things that I would wait to have them read (if I could). Then again, I'm the type that would read original Grimm tales to his children as well instead of the Disnified versions, soo... :) Bright be thy day in the sun, Wintershard Councilor of Mist http://www.herald.co.uk/local_info/rules_thumb.html http://www.ling.udel.edu/hyde/pers/misty/newbiefest.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 10:33:28 PST From: "Abigail Laughlin" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: MIST: RPGs are a no-no, AND Misty for Kids. Message-ID: <19990220183328.17604.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> Okay. To remind everyone! It is *illegal* to create a role-playing game based on the work of an author, without first getting (in writing) permission to do so. Specifically, Misty-based RPGs are illegal, and Misty has stated on numerous occasions that she is willing to prosecute anyone who does create one without her permission.>> In response to this, let me state that neither the Mistic Circle nor the Circle of Stone are in any way based on any of Misty's works. They're both sword-and-sorcery, but that's about the limit to the resemblace. Being something of a writer myself, I understand where Misty is coming from with her enforcement of her copyrights, and I'm not interested in breaking those copyrights--I'd certainly be upset if someone used a setting or characters that I'd written without at least asking me first. If there's a Misty-based RPG going on anywhere, this is the first I've heard of it. <> The problem here is that some of the bits that would need to be cut out are semi-integral to the storyline. Like rune's encounter with those bullies--she thinks back on that more than once, and there's the whole bit about how Stara was basically a whore. And then there's Amber and company, and how Rune finally gets a clue driven into Talaysen's head. If you snip any, you'll probably want to snip them all, and that winds up taking a good bit out of the story. Firebird might very well work that way; there wasn't so much dealing with that sort of thing. I'm not sure if the Elvenbane books would work that way or not; the Fire Rose wouldn't really--you'd have to cut out nearly every bit from Paul du Mont's perspective except the last, and you'd have to find some way of explaining that one. It would really take away from The Black Gryphon to cut out anything--Silver Gryphon might do it; the villain of The White Gryphon may be a little too creepy for younger kids. The first two books of LHM might very well work, but only if the kid already had a pretty good concept of the world around him/her. My personal standpoint is that Misty is a tad mature for younger kids; if it were my choice I'd start them on Tamora Pierce's Song of the Lioness quartet, Tanith Lee's Black Unicorn and its sequels, and Robin McKinley's The Blue Sword, The Hero and the Crown, The Door in the Hedge, Beauty, and Rose Daughter. They're all reminiscent of Misty but without as many adult themes. Zha'hai'allav'a, Raven Darkblade and Mor the raven, Holy Hand of the Goddess of Elves, Member of the Mistic Circle, Webmaster and List Keeper of the Circle of Stone, Knight and Founding Member of the Order of Unsung Heroes, Advocator of Eldan, Champion of Kethra and Hyllarr, Devotee of Maclyn, and Worshipper of Tal Rufen. abbykat-+AT+-hotmail.com http://www.angelfire.com/ky/Ashke/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 12:28:18 PST From: "Kirstin Ramey" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: age level Message-ID: <19990220202818.1221.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> My personal opinion on this is let the kids read what they want to. My parents allowed me to read anything I wanted. Because I wasn't being told I couldn't read a particular book it didn't make me want to read it just to find out what they didn't want me to know. Make sense? I also agree with whoever said that younger kids will miss what is being said about "censored" topics. When I was in 6th grade I read a book called "Sweet Blood." It was a book about vampires and (as I found out when I read it again last year) had many sexual scenes and comments (i.e. the whole book!!) that I had totally missed. I had enjoyed the book back then even without a complete understanding of the content. I believe that if a child comes to you (if you are the parent or guardian) and asks if they can read that book go ahead and let them. If they don't like it they will stop reading it as they have better things to do. This is just my opinion so don't yell. Everyone has their own ideas. As for re-reading books, I use to never re-read books (due to a bad case of Dyslexia and the enormous amount of time it takes me to read the book). Misty books are the only books I have ever wanted to re-read. Hope I haven't bored anyone. Ookamiko (for those who don't know Japanese, it means "Wolf Child") ^.^ a.k.a K.C. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 13:31:25 MST From: "Winterstar K'Canada" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: books and age level Message-ID: <19990220203126.6904.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> >>Liseth then said: >>Myself and many other non-parents I know have come to the conclusion that >>if someone is mature enough to understand implicit sexual content of a >>book they are probably mature enough to not be affected by it. I know, >>from personal experience, that it is possible to entirely miss sexual >>content in books and movies even if you read/watch them incessantly. I'd >>probably avoid explicit sexual content (LHM would probably be entirely out >>of the question for many, many decades), but AotQ or the Storm books would >>probably be okay. I remember the first time I picked up one of Misty's books. I was either 9 or 11, and I loved it. It was the three pack of the Arrows' book. Then I lost it for a few years, and finally found it later on. However, my point is that it is a good story, but some kids have to be either too young to understand the sexual references, or mature enough to take it and not be bothered by it. I started reading romances at the age of 9, and I don't think I'm that bad... My parents always told me that I could read whatever I wanted in the house. So I did. If it didn't interest me, then I put it down. If it did, I'd read it, usually skipping the 'ewww' parts. By the time I was ready to understand them, I was mature enough for them (I like to believe). So those are my views... Maybe it's just me. :) Winterstar K'Canada "A canter is a cure for every evil." -- Benjamin Disraeli ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 15:06:52 PST From: "Janet Bowen" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: hey i'm a newbi Message-ID: <19990220230653.7400.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> I finished Firebird and enjoyed it. It was very interesting and combined just enough of the majic with the real to make it believable. I also like her Sacred Ground also. I just reread it. Whitedeer aka Wandering Deer Medicine Woman ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 20:05:10 EST From: SachiAiko-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Misty/sex/age Message-ID: <6a1a24d8.36cf5bc6-+AT+-aol.com> ::delurks for a minute:: Sorry. Have to say this. I don believe that anyone should ever make their kids read specific kinds of books. from the the time i was lil i was explained what sex was. I Was told to respect my body and that always stayed with me. I was never told i *couldn't* want or read anything. And because of that freedom i have an awsome relationship with my mother. I can talk openly about anything with her including and beyond sex. Als I have been respected with my choice of boyfriends. And because of this respect and the honesty i have had my whole life i have made good choices. And no one worries about me doing something stupid (btw i jes got engaged.). I guess my main point is that if you are honest with your children you are more likely to see some one who respects thier body enough not to screw round. We all know that when you tell some one not to do something they want to do it. So why make sex a mystery to a child? once they get old enough they will hear it from friends and want to try it cause "everyone" is doing it. As far as i'm concerned. The kids who see their parents hug n cuddle n kiss a lot are the ones that grow up feeling better about being close. How can you teach children if you dont show them? I live with an 11 year old boy. When he asks me questions about sex i tell him honestly. But i also make sure i tell him how to respect himself and his partner. And i tell him that its best to love the person. and this lil boy completely understands and i he knows he can always talk to me about anything cause i will explain things to him. I think its better to know whats going on in your childs life then to be completely oblivious. I don see the logic "If i don know about it its not happening" Sorry folks. thats not how it works. As far as i'm concerned if a parent explains and talks openly with their child i don see a prollem with any of Misty's books. Anyhow. there is my two sheep worth. ::folds her wings tightly back hoping she wont get flamed by some one for her words and steps back into lurkdom quietly:: Sheep Shaped blueberry Icies for all Snow Princess of frost. Lead. Follow. Or get outa my flight-path! -- Keman ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 20:19:11 PST From: "Li'nia Stormdancer" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Thank you/Reading Message-ID: <19990221041912.15286.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> Heyla List-Sibs! First, thank you to everyone who answered my question on where to find some of Misty's music. I ordered "Serrated Edge" by Tempest, and I love it! Very nice, and I can see why she likes to use it in her books. Second, I know I wrote something a few days ago about youngsters reading Misty's books. The problem that I think a lot of people have is that they don't understand that kids nowadays are learning things at a much younger age than we did. I didn't hear about AIDS and stuff until I was in high school; kids now learn about it in elementary. These days, homosexuality, AIDS, drugs, bloodshed, and other subject that we think aren't suitable for young kids have already been taught to them by a very hard teacher: life. So, I think that Misty's books can be read by anyone who has an interest in them. I (when I was young) was only looking for a good story. All right, I'm off my soapbox now! *and runs as stuff is thrown at her, some of it having the suspicious shape of sheep to them* Death-by-chocolate sheep to all! Li'nia Stormdancer aka Stormdance k'T'more and Kuus ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 22:17:23 PST From: "ambermoon starshadow" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: ages Message-ID: <19990221061723.2533.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> Heyla, just feel like adding my two bits to the ages thread. First off, I HATE censorship, and so thoroughly dislike the idea of reading aloud and cutting. Those parts were written in for a reason, and not just to sell more copies; they are integral parts of the books and should not be cut. If you don't think kid can handle some parts of a book, then wait until they can, instead of giving it to them piece-meal. IMNSHO, it all depends on the individual kid: one kid may be ready for Misty at 10, another at 13. It all hangs on your personal assessment of each kid. For instance, I've been giving my sister books for years, and only made one mistake that I can remember. I base it on when I remember reading the books, and what I think she is able to handle at that time. For other books/series', my mother read me The_Hobbit before I could read, and I'd recommend that and Lord_of_the_Rings for any age. I read the Chronicles of Prydain when I was 8, and still love them. I'd also suggest the Redwall series by Brian Jacques, the Dark Is Rising Sequence by Susan Cooper, the Enchanted Forest Chronicles by Paticia C. Wrede, the A_Wrinkle_In_Time trilogy by Madeleine L'Engle, Winter_of_Fire by Sheryl Jordan, and A_Plague_of_Sorcerors by Mary Frances Zambreno. Someone mentioned Robin McKinley; The_Hero_and_the_Crown has implicit sex in it, but a little kid wouldn't pick up on that. malt sheep with chocolate coating to all, Ambermoon Singer of Fire ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1882 **********************************