MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1884 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Reading by "Liz Blaszak" 2) The age debate by Miranda Warren 3) braid by "Kristy Lyseng" 4) books and ages by Rachesqka-+AT+-aol.com 5) Re: hey i'm a newbie by Lisa Holcomb 6) spin-off from "Censorship" by Danae 7) the great reading debate, and more by Gisela Vazquez 8) RE: hey i'm a newbie by Lisa Whitman 9) RE: braid by "L. J. Thompson" 10) Re: books and ages by "Alexia/Sabrina" 11) parental disaproval by "Quietfire k'T'more" 12) Storm books/fantacy reading by Gisela Vazquez 13) "real books" by Julia Gray 14) Re: the great reading debate by Katie Rapoport 15) "Censorship" by Barbara Sorenson 16) vox populi, drifting ashes, coolness, and other stuff by "Nelson Greenslade" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 09:01:10 CST From: "Liz Blaszak" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Reading Message-ID: <199902221455.JAA18794-+AT+-users.qual.net> ::delurks for a brief moment to add her two cents in:: Lady Starlight wrote: "Granted, Misty's stuff is probably not as bad as some stuff out there (both in RL & fiction), why would we want to give it to young children? There is a difference between censorship & guidance. It's all a matter of degrees." As a fighter of censorship in any form, I am among the first to recognize the fact that there are age appropriate books. This is for reading ability and maturity. However, when a child sees a book that they can handle and gain a desire to read it, I firmly believe that they should be allowed to do so, perhaps with guidance and discussion. Never tell a child they can't read something, not only will they want to rebel, but they might also (depending on the age) be tured away from reading and ultimately that is NOT a solution, but another problem. Guiding a child in his/her reading is one thing, dictating what they can or can't read is another. >From personal experience, I know the consequences. My parents did censor what I read and for that reason I didn't read....anything. That is of course until I got to high school and I happened to find a book by Piers Anthony. That was my first taste of fantasy and I loved the idea. I soon found Misty and others; despite my parent's dislike of my reading materials I started to read. That helped me in my reading abilities (which were always low), writing, and general communication. I am almost 22 now and my mom and I STILL fight over the fact that my bookshelves are covered with fantasy and history books on witchcraft and the Salem Witch Trials (MY time in history and the subject of my senior thesis). Censorship ultimately deprives a child of a wealth of knowledge and shouldn't be practiced. ::looks around and realizes she was a bit more vocal about that subject than she wanted to be....stepping back in the corner she's happy she's adding something to the list:: Sera and Shea Goddess of Four-Footed Ones ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 07:35:51 -0800 (PST) From: Miranda Warren To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: The age debate Message-ID: <19990222153551.14527.rocketmail-+AT+-send205.yahoomail.com> ::climbs onto her 3 ft tall soap box:: Ok, I just thought that since it was only adults adding their two cents on this subject, I thought I would as the teen-age faction. Censorship is not good, I will grant that, but doing something for a child's overall good isn't censorship, it's smart. I was never censored in the word, but I knew which books were appropriate for some one my age. Anyone under 13 really should not be reading any of Misty's books. We are forgetting something about children that we no longer have. Innocence. (I know my spellings bad, I apologize.) Children, when they are ready, can read Misty. I held on to my childhood with tooth and nail, so I understand this. If a child (someone under 13) wants to read Misty, then it's good to have a talk with them before hand. A discussion on homo sexuality would be in order, just so they understand what it is, and not the myths they here at school. Also the characters come from backgrounds that might scare someone that isn't mature enough to deal with the effects of child abuse in all it's many forms. Not to mention that the heralds are in a word, "Promiscuous". I wouldn't press Misty on children, but then I wouldn't hold them off from it if the child is mature enough to deal with it. It's different for each child. ::Looks at how much she had written:: Oops...didn't mean to say that much.... ::hops off the box and hopes she doesn't get flamed:: cappucino flavored sheep to all! Miranda Keeper of a freeze-dried sheep flock _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free -+AT+-yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 08:47:30 PST From: "Kristy Lyseng" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: braid Message-ID: <19990222164731.21898.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> Heyla! Kalen wrote: >Why are people such _______? [ fill in as you see fit.] >I got a phonecall off my sister yesterday telling me that someone >had trashed my mothers grave. Wrecked the flowers and stole a >small teddy bear off it. >I really think people like that should be strung up and the family >wronged should be allowed to kick the _____ out of them. >I am sooooo glad that I am a OIB and not a Herald as Bloodfeud is >what I want. Yeah, I agree. People can be really disrespectful; if anybody did that to my grandfather's (either of them) or my cousin's grave, I would have been disgusted (as well as outraged) and called for a Bloodfeud as well. L.J.Thompson wrote: >First, why would someone censure any book at any age level? Children are much more apt to put a book down if >it's too much over their head. If it isn't, if they want to read it, would you really stop them? In this >example, you said you enjoyed some of the stories in the inappropriate book - what, then was inappropriate about >it? Most kids (heck, people) self-censure - like you did with the book above. IMNSHO, if a child is interested >in reading a book, i'm not going to stop him/her because of the content - a child is more likely to stop >him/herself or do some type of self-censure of the contents if s/he thinks it inappropriate - and a child would >be a much better judge of what is inappropriate for him/herself than I would ever be. This goes back to the >first statement in the paragraph above - I think that books are going to be read by children/teens/adults when >they are ready to read them. Okay, I have to stop right there. I think the main reason that adults censure books might not be because of the sexual content or violence content, it could be becuase of the sensitive issues delt within the novel. I know that many children are mature in, say, Junior High, but they could feel uncomfortable reading about a saych character when they don't know how to feel about that certain type of character because they have not resolved their own feelings. I can relate to that. The first time I ever read the LHM trilogy, I felt a bit awkward reading about a guy who likes other guys, but I got over it and began to enjoy the book. The only reason that book is not my favorite is not because Vanyel is gay (I hold no prejudice to people who follow a different religion, look different from me, and prefer the opposite sex (althoug I am a bit of a feminist)) it's just that I didn't like how Mercedes Lackey wrote the book. I know that L.J. wrote a lot more about this, which is similar to what I have said here (to an extent), but I just didn't want the whole e-mail in here. (No offense, L.J.!) I just finnished an English book I had to finnish called My Name Is Asher Lev by Chaim Potok. I honsetly don't know what to think about it. This book has a lot of shades of gray. It's disturbing, or at least I found it disturbing. And I was wondering if anybody else has read it and what they think about it? Love, Light and Laughter, Kristy (a.k.a. Noema, Dewshine, Starsong and Silverstorm) P.S.: Hmm. It doesn't seem that the list is quiet anymore. Great! Chocolate sheep to all! "Oh, source of all power Light which burns beyond Crimson Flame Let thy power gather within my hand! FireBall!!!!"--Lian Inverse, Slayers ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:29:14 EST From: Rachesqka-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: books and ages Message-ID: <125f8801.36d1b00a-+AT+-aol.com> ::delurks, clears her throat, and steps up onto the vacated soapbox:: Heyla list-sibs, First off, an observation; wow, I never thought this age debate would blossom like it has, it's nearly all we talk about these days. I'd introduce a new topic if I could think of one, but alas, my brain is empty. So I'll continue with the same old discussion. I apologize if I repeat some of whats already been said, and for my long-winded tendancy to ramble. I first picked up a Misty book when I was... ::counting on her fingers:: twelve? yeah, im pretty sure i was twelve. It was Arrows of the Queen. I wasn't too young at all, I got everything that it talked about, and Talia's rape and torture scenes, though they were really yucky, didn't totally freak me out. A year later I picked up the LHM, and though I was at first shocked to find a shaych hero in a book, I soon got over my shock, and am presently more open-minded than before I read it. I read The Clan of the Cave Bear at age 12 also, and I can tell you, NOTHING in that book went over my head, it was all very straight forward. You might think that I was too young for it, or that I must have been emotionally mature for my age, but... let me tell you, I have always been a naive little thing, and also hung on to my childhood tooth and nail (I'm 18 and still clinging). and i did find many scenes to be "yucky" but I read on due to an interesting story line. My mother knew and allowed me to read all of these books. We have an excellent relationship and I can talk to her about anything. I guess what im basically trying to say is, I too don't like censorship, my mother didnt censor me, and I could emotionally handle all the "scandalous" content of the books I read. Think of it this way, if my mother had told me that I couldnt read a certain book, I probably would have gone behind her back and read it anyway, just because she told me I couldn't. By censoring a child you do one of two things, make them more curious about what it is you dont what them to know about, or turn them off to reading. Of the times that my mother didnt censor me, I would often censor myself, if I found something too "yucky" i would simply say "ICK!" and close the book. Trying to keep a child in the dark is futile because you cant keep them there forever. If a child cant handle something they will keep themselves in the dark, I speak from personal experience on that. ::Looks back over what she wrote, eyes bugging out at the length of her speech, and steps off the soap box, leaving it vacant once again:: Starshadow K'Connecticut bonded to Trin "Darkness beyond twilight, Crimson beyond blood that flows, Buried in the flow of time, In thy great name I pledge myself to darkness. Let the fools who stand before us be destroyed, By the power you and I possess, Dragon Slave!" Lina Inverse- Slayers ;) That was just for you Kristy! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:01:32 -0800 (PST) From: Lisa Holcomb To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: hey i'm a newbie Message-ID: <19990222200132.8052.rocketmail-+AT+-send501.yahoomail.com> ---SachiAiko-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > ::morphs into a human and gives Lisa a hug then turns back into the white > dragon slinking quietly back into lurkdom:: ::lisa receives the hug gratefully and turns and smiles&waves to the less-tactile-inclined people:: hallo! i think i'll like it here... obmisty: anyone get stuck at the storm books? i just can't get through them and i feel really awful about it. does it get better? will i adore these new people as much as the old ones? i need encouragement in a big way.... languishing, lisa == Lisa Holcomb awamiba-+AT+-yahoo.com http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Arc/5894 _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free -+AT+-yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:57:43 -0500 From: Danae To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: spin-off from "Censorship" Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990222145743.0079cab0-+AT+-ime.net> Sera and Shea wrote: >I soon found Misty and others; despite my parent's >dislike of my reading materials I started to read. That helped me in >my reading abilities (which were always low), writing, and general >communication. I am almost 22 now and my mom and I STILL fight >over the fact that my bookshelves are covered with fantasy and >history books on witchcraft and the Salem Witch Trials (MY time in >history and the subject of my senior thesis). First of all, hello Sera. I believe you are one of the only members of the list that I remember from the "good ol' days" when I was on the list before. It is nice to see an old familiar face! (I was Lady Aphrael or Danae then) Anyways....I just found these comment about parental dissaproval interesting. I myself have had many similar experiences and i was wondering how many others of my list-sibs have experienced this. I started reading fantasy books in 6th grade and I have been hooked on them ever since (I'm 17 now). My parents have always disliked my choice of reading material (from the time I was stuck on horse books till now) but I have always been a prolific reader. At one point I was even forbid to read any of "my" books. At another time my parents tried to limit my reading of fantasy by having a rule that for every book that I read of my choice I had to read a book of their choice. This only made me go behind their back and read at school and anywher else I could that they wouldn't find out. I think they realized that it wasn't going to work and have long since given up trying to stop me but it has always confounded me why they were not simply happy that I was reading. I mean I knew so many other kids my age who absolutely hated reading and saw it as a punishment or just something to be endured for school rather than enjoyment. I have no doubt that my reading so much has helped me in school as well and I have no doubt that I would have scored a lot lower on the verbal section of my SAT's (740) if I had never read the books that I did. Well, I have now talked way too much about my own personal experiences so I will simply state my question/thread idea thingy... "Why is it that those people (often parents) who do not understand the draw and enjoyment of reading fantasy books always see it as "trash" (my dad's words) and as something that ought to be restricted?" I'm done now. *slinking off to a corner and hiding behind a lage fluffy sheep to wait for the rotten vegetables that are sure to be thrown my way* ~Rainsong k'T'more~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 15:04:14 -0500 (EST) From: Gisela Vazquez To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: the great reading debate, and more Message-ID: Heyla listcibs! I'm delurking to put my two cents in about the reading age debate. ellen asked: i guess the question is are there any books by misty that you (my listsibs) would think appropriate for younger children (7-10)? (i can't think of any offhand.) I guess The owl books shouldn't be too bad if for no other reason then that the hero himself is young. I would recomend Arrows of the Queen but it does have that one seen where Ilsa is being murdered. I haven't read all of the other books although I am waiting for Fire Rose and a couple of the Bardic choices books to come in. Other listcibs were talking about snipping parts of stories out and I have a problem with that. In most books, scenes that are "inappropriate" for young children are an intigral part of the story. That is true in most of Misty's books. I believe stories should be read completely to get the full meaning. I think it was L. J. Thompson said that Maturity level should be the main considderation when allowing children to read books and I am in complete agreement. I believe that parents should be honest with their children when asked questions and if you do not aggree that they should read a book a complete explanation should be given. I think that would make the child listen more than a, "because I said so." Kalen said i got a phonecall off my sister yesterday telling me that someone had trashed my mothers grave. wrecked the flowers and stole a small teddy bear off it. I'm sooo sorry to hear that. Words really just aren't that good when something like that happens. So, here's a hug and some chocolate sheep to lift your spirits. ookamiko wrote: as for re-reading books i use to never re-read books (due to a bad case of dyslexia and the enormous amount of time it takes me to read the book). misty books are the only books i have ever wanted to re-read. Can you get access to Audio books? I'm totally blind and until recently that's the only way I've been able to read them. Now there's this machine, (that I've finally got installed at school,) and what it does is convert the text into synthetic speech. I'm really glad to have it because now I can just pick up any of her books and scan them save them on to a disk and read them. Oh, there are very few authors that I've wanted to reread Misty is one of them, CS freidman is another (the Coldfire trilagy) I thought being sheildmates had a sexual conotation to it because in Mpromice Jervis said to Van that their were some shieldmated fighters he would trust with his first born more than any one else or something like that, I'm too lazy to look. It's after Van comes back from across the border and They're trying to work things out. Ok, I'm done, for now and will slip back into lurk mode. sheep cookies for all Zhai'helleva, lady g aka rainstar ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 13:03:46 -0800 From: Lisa Whitman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: RE: hey i'm a newbie Message-ID: >obmisty: anyone get stuck at the storm books? i just can't get >through them and i feel really awful about it. does it get better? >will i adore these new people as much as the old ones? i need >encouragement in a big way.... Hmmmm....it depends on where you are stuck. I liked the first two Storm books a lot. I really like the character Karal and I love Altra (the firecat). <> It was a very easy read for me. However, the third book is a pain. I read through it as fast as I could to find out what happened, then re-read it to pick up what I missed and that was all. Usually I can enjoy her books several times...always picking up something new, but not the last Storm book (well, ok, not Silver Gryphon either-<>) It's worth speeding through to get the main plot. Don't worry if you miss some of the dialog. Star formerly Starfire, but I didn't want to usurp the name ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 13:13:02 -0800 From: "L. J. Thompson" To: "'mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk'" Subject: RE: braid Message-ID: <01BE5E65.16423C60-+AT+-BASIL> Hate to post to the list for such trivial reasons, but I didn't write this! (The thing below the asterisks) Someone else did, basically in response to something that I wrote, and I then wrote back. On a related note, I do agree to some degree with your response that people in middle school may not be comfortable with some things, such as a shaych character, but I personally feel that they are going to run into that at some point and that middle school is as good of a time as any to start thinking about that sort of thing. (And just for the record, the LHM books are my favorite, mostly because I like that writing style.) Oh, and someone was talking about how people get cranky at people for reading fantasy instead of "real books" or something. My parents are just happy that I'm reading, but I've had many, many teachers tell me that I have "so much potential" and that I need to start reading "real books" or 'good literature." Bah. Most literature that I've read has been boring and put me to sleep. I certainly haven't thought back on it nearly as much as I have on, say, the LHM books or some of the stuff by Tanith Lee that I've read. Well, I'm babbling, so it looks like a good time to stop typing. L.J. Thompson ******** L.J.Thompson wrote: (No I didn't!) >First, why would someone censure any book at any age level? Children are much more apt to put a book down if >it's too much over their head. If it isn't, if they want to read it, would you really stop them? In this >example, you said you enjoyed some of the stories in the inappropriate book - what, then was inappropriate about >it? Most kids (heck, people) self-censure - like you did with the book above. IMNSHO, if a child is interested >in reading a book, i'm not going to stop him/her because of the content - a child is more likely to stop >him/herself or do some type of self-censure of the contents if s/he thinks it inappropriate - and a child would >be a much better judge of what is inappropriate for him/herself than I would ever be. This goes back to the >first statement in the paragraph above - I think that books are going to be read by children/teens/adults when >they are ready to read them. Okay, I have to stop right there. I think the main reason that adults censure books might not be because of the sexual content or violence content, it could be becuase of the sensitive issues delt within the novel. I know that many children are mature in, say, Junior High, but they could feel uncomfortable reading about a saych character when they don't know how to feel about that certain type of character because they have not resolved their own feelings. I can relate to that. The first time I ever read the LHM trilogy, I felt a bit awkward reading about a guy who likes other guys, but I got over it and began to enjoy the book. The only reason that book is not my favorite is not because Vanyel is gay (I hold no prejudice to people who follow a different religion, look different from me, and prefer the opposite sex (althoug I am a bit of a feminist)) it's just that I didn't like how Mercedes Lackey wrote the book. I know that L.J. wrote a lot more about this, which is similar to what I have said here (to an extent), but I just didn't want the whole e-mail in here. (No offense, L.J.!) begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(-+AT+-<5`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!-+AT+-`(````Y 0```````#H``$(-+AT+- <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0-+AT+-36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````-+AT+-`"``$$ MD 8`Z $```$````0`````P``, ,````+``\.``````(!_P\!````5P`````` M``"!*Q^DOJ,0&9UN`-T!#U0"`````&UE4!H97)A;&0N M8V\N=6L`4TU44 !M97)C961E``(P M`0````4```!33510`````!X``S !````'0```&UE4!H M97)A;&0N8V\N=6L``````P`5# $````#`/X/!-+AT+-```!X``3 !````'P```"=M M97)C961E4!H97)A;&0N8V\N=6L` M`````-+AT+-'W7P$```!7`````````($K'Z2^HQ 9G6X`W0$/5 (`````;65R8V5D M97,M;&%C:V5Y0&AE4!H M97)A;&0N8V\N=6L```,`_5\!`````P#_7P`````"`?8/`0````0````````# M`V\!!( !``H```!213H-+AT+-8G)A:60`\P(!!8 #``X```#/!P(`%-+AT+-`-``T``-+AT+-`! 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M`````````!X`2H (( 8``````, ```````!&`````#B%```!`````0`````` -+AT+-```>`#T``0````4```!213H-+AT+-``````,`#33]-P``)(J% ` end ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 21:36:51 -0000 From: "Alexia/Sabrina" To: Subject: Re: books and ages Message-ID: <041901be5eac$26639980$25c828c3-+AT+-i.casale> As I've said before, I think the sexual abuse content in some of Misty's books in not suitable for children. But instead of censorship, I think it would be better for the parents to talk to the child and explain why they didn't want to them read the book- or rather, why they didn't think it would be a good experience for them. If you tell children the why and wherefore, they can make their own decisions and a lot of them will be sensible... it's the I'm young, not stupid rule... Had a hell of a time- and still do about that. I do think it's wise to discourage children from reading about sexual abuse. All to many children don't get a choice in their education of it. If you can be an 'innocent' for longer, then take it. There's not a second chance. Sorry for waffling on again. What else shall I say... something Obmisty... hm... Storms... I liked the storms books... they didn't have some of the 'nasty' bits that the other books had and Karal was interesting... got me thinking because he's a character I have some problems with liking, which is interesting in a way... I did get to like him though- I liked the first and second books most... the bit with Ulrich at the end of book one is where it really gets interesting and more involving... gets a lot more emotive there. Anyway... hope that counts as an Obmisty! Take care all:) Alexia ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 14:06:35 -0800 (PST) From: "Quietfire k'T'more" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: parental disaproval Message-ID: <19990222220636.11895.rocketmail-+AT+-web511.mail.yahoo.com> My parents have also have disaproved of my fantacy reading. My particular anoyance about this is that they have not read any fantacy, how can they judge it? My mother claims it's the cause of my religious opinions (I find witchcraft and Misty to be rather un-related), and she also says it's why I'm gay, which is also silliness. My father wants to know why I don't read mystery books like other kids. I personally don't find them to be interesting at all (I don't really care if Prof. Plum killed them with the candlestick in the living room, thank you!). He has even gone so far at times to have bought me copies of Sweet Valley High books! AHHHHHHGGGGG! YUCK! GAAAAAG! Davin/Quietfire k'T'more ---Danae wrote: > > Sera and Shea wrote: > >I soon found Misty and others; despite my parent's > >dislike of my reading materials I started to read. That helped me in > >my reading abilities (which were always low), writing, and general > >communication. I am almost 22 now and my mom and I STILL fight > >over the fact that my bookshelves are covered with fantasy and > >history books on witchcraft and the Salem Witch Trials (MY time in > >history and the subject of my senior thesis). > > First of all, hello Sera. I believe you are one of the only members of the > list that I remember from the "good ol' days" when I was on the list > before. It is nice to see an old familiar face! (I was Lady Aphrael or > Danae then) > > Anyways....I just found these comment about parental dissaproval > interesting. I myself have had many similar experiences and i was > wondering how many others of my list-sibs have experienced this. I started > reading fantasy books in 6th grade and I have been hooked on them ever > since (I'm 17 now). My parents have always disliked my choice of reading > material (from the time I was stuck on horse books till now) but I have > always been a prolific reader. At one point I was even forbid to read any > of "my" books. At another time my parents tried to limit my reading of > fantasy by having a rule that for every book that I read of my choice I had > to read a book of their choice. This only made me go behind their back and > read at school and anywher else I could that they wouldn't find out. I > think they realized that it wasn't going to work and have long since given > up trying to stop me but it has always confounded me why they were not > simply happy that I was reading. I mean I knew so many other kids my age > who absolutely hated reading and saw it as a punishment or just something > to be endured for school rather than enjoyment. I have no doubt that my > reading so much has helped me in school as well and I have no doubt that I > would have scored a lot lower on the verbal section of my SAT's (740) if I > had never read the books that I did. Well, I have now talked way too much > about my own personal experiences so I will simply state my question/thread > idea thingy... > > "Why is it that those people (often parents) who do not understand the draw > and enjoyment of reading fantasy books always see it as "trash" (my dad's > words) and as something that ought to be restricted?" > > I'm done now. > > *slinking off to a corner and hiding behind a lage fluffy sheep to wait for > the rotten vegetables that are sure to be thrown my way* > > ~Rainsong k'T'more~ > > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free -+AT+-yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:09:04 -0500 (EST) From: Gisela Vazquez To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Storm books/fantacy reading Message-ID: Second post in one day, but I need to respond to a couple of things. It just feels so good to be able, to have time to poast. Lost this name sorry "why is it that those people (often parents) who do not understand the draw and enjoyment of reading fantasy books always see it as "trash" (my dad's words) and as something that ought to be restricted?" There probably is no one reason, but here are some that came into my mind the moment I read the post. One is that when they were young, they couldn't really read because they didn't have the conviniences of many of the modern day technology that we have access to so they had a lot less free time. Another reason is that to them, there is nothing useful to be gained from fantacy reading. The whole idea of magic is probably evil in their eyes as well. I wonder if most of them even know what fantacy is! Someone asked obmisty anyone get stuck at the storm booksth i just can't get through them and i feel really awful about it. does it get better? will i adore these new people as much as the old ones? i need encouragement in a big way.... The storm books are ok. I love karal and Altra. I even wound up liking Firesong quite a bit. The problem with those books is that it gets a bit technical but they're worth the read. The parts with the empire are kind of boring, although Tramain does become important. Just hang in there if you feel you need to read them. Here are some fluffy towels for all the newbies! Watch out cause there are people that walk around here with buckits, although they're all nice so don't worry. You will all just get splooshed. Zhai'helleva rainstar ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 16:30:27 -0600 From: Julia Gray To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: "real books" Message-ID: <36D1DA80.86B2A1D3-+AT+-oakton.edu> L. J. Thompson wrote: > Hate to post to the list for such trivial reasons, but I didn't write this! > (The thing below the asterisks) Someone else did, basically in response to > something that I wrote, and I then wrote back. That was me :-) > Oh, and someone was talking about how > people get cranky at people for reading fantasy instead of "real books" or > something. My parents are just happy that I'm reading, but I've had many, > many teachers tell me that I have "so much potential" and that I need to > start reading "real books" or 'good literature." Bah. Most literature that > I've read has been boring and put me to sleep. I certainly haven't thought > back on it nearly as much as I have on, say, the LHM books or some of the > stuff by Tanith Lee that I've read. Well, I'm babbling, so it looks like a > good time to stop typing. > Well, i've been reading un-"real" books for nigh on 20+ years now (i'm an old fart...), since 10ish or so. I am in the process of moving and have about 15 boxes of F&FS, for all ages - each box contains I think 80 paperbacks or so (maybe a hundred), less if it's full of hardcover books. I have more F&FS than the library where I work has of fiction in general.... and that's not counting by boxes of other books ... I also read some "classics" (sometimes called "real" fiction) - I really really like Dickens (A Tale of Two Cities is incredible). I think that the right book, no matter who it's written by, will make you think and re-evaluate yourself and your world. For me, I like Dickens, and I like Lackey, and I really enjoy the Donaldson duology "Mirror of Dreams", and I like to read Brecht, and I enjoy Shakespeare and I loved Jan Morris's trilogy about the rise and fall of the English empire during the reign of Queen Victoria ----- I like a lot of different things and don't limit my reading to one genre. It saddens me to hear when a teacher (or anyone) would make blanket statements about any type of literature - but it happens. That being said - I am too familiar with the social stigmatism of reading fantasy. I still don't volunteer the information readily because of the negative associations of my peers. I told one recently who said something like "oh, it's always good to have some trashy books around to read" *grinds teeth* And, sometimes when I do find someone who reads the same thing I do, I wonder what planet he/she is from :-) [anyone else run into these kinds of people?] Finally there are those fellow readers I find who read the same things i do - then we can have intelligent conversations about it and argue the merits of the plot, debate the author's characterization and sometimes heartily disagree about favorite scenes. Why do people put down fantasy/sci-fi? Well, i have to admit I've certainly read a lot of books i'll never want to read again .... and I think there is a stereo type about the type of people who read it (an unfair stereotype - see me doing it in the paragraph above :-) - part of which is if you read fantasy you can't deal with reality (really!!! i've heard it said!!). i think my replies are getting too long-winded. obmisty: any idea what misty likes to read? or .... is there a particular reason you read misty (i.e. plot? a certain character? descriptive passages?) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:38:47 -0500 From: Katie Rapoport To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: the great reading debate Message-ID: <36D1DC76.6426638-+AT+-icdc.com> Heyla, I feel a strong desire to get my two cents into this reading debate thingy. I have been reading since I was five and have yet to pause for breath. I've been reading adult books since sixth grade and have never had any trouble with the issues presented. Censorshop by parents is understandable, they want their children to be protected. However, I will use a quote from a local special reading assistance school in my area, Benchmark, "It doesn't matter how much you read, it's how much you read, that helps you become a better user and understander of the English language." Forgive my deleting finger, which causes me to be unable to remember who said this, but I agree that if I hadn't read as much as I did, my verbal SAT score (800) would have been significantly lower. Also, I think that Misty's content, although it has definite forays into the more adult issues, would not harm a younger reader, it would either go completely over their head, or they would be old enough to understand and think about it. Bye, Katie ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 16:32:39 -0600 From: Barbara Sorenson To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: "Censorship" Message-ID: <36D1DAE1.521D583E-+AT+-m.jordan.k12.ut.us> *She fights her way free of the mountain of sheep again...* Wow, after reading all this stuff about censorship, I have to appreciate my parents a bit more than before. Rainsong T'k'more said: >I started reading fantasy books in 6th grade and I have been hooked on them ever >since (I'm 17 now). My parents have always disliked my choice of reading >material (from the time I was stuck on horse books till now) but I have >always been a prolific reader. At one point I was even forbid to read any >of "my" books. Since my middle name is "Jaelithe", a good witch in the "Witch World" series by Andre Norton, I have to admit that I've been reading sci-fi and fantasy longer than any other genre, and my mom helped! *big grin!* Her bookshelf was filled with what some would call "College Level" books that I started reading by 5th grade -- and upon re-reading them, I do realize exactly HOW MUCH of the sexual content I didn't understand. *wipes brow* (Whew!) And I do have to admit that as soon as they told my I couldn't read the sequals to "Clan of the Cave Bear", I started looking for them and hiding them (I think I was 11 or 12)! So, as one precocious reader to all of the readers and parents out there - good luck! I'm sure as a parent I will someday try to censor my children's reading, and I'm pretty sure I'll fail, as my parents did the few times they tried! obMisty - The Storms books were hardest for me to get through - while still probably being easier than many books I've read. I think her earliest stuff is my favorite...And I think I've read them all at least 3 times each. (I know. Weak. In appology: ) Sheep-shaped sugar cookies with fluffy white frosting to all! (Say that 10 times fast!) Barbara *dives back into the sheep-pile...* ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:43:58 -0400 From: "Nelson Greenslade" To: "Misty" Subject: vox populi, drifting ashes, coolness, and other stuff Message-ID: <000201be5ebd$ebc2e1c0$c593b3cf-+AT+-epzfbrwg> Heyla! I've been... gone lately. I wasn't even lurking, since I wasn't reading. I just suddenly didn't feel like reading my mail... or anything else for that matter. I have a borrowed copy of Born to Run just sitting on my dresser, staring at me accusingly (strangely enough, I did the same thing with Children of the Night...). Well, anyway, I had a few personal epiphanies last night and I'm feeling interesting enough to correspond. <> Yep. I am definately a Libra. My belief in Balance gets stronger with each passing day. (You'd almost think I was becoming a Harper...) <> *smiles* Well, that is my favorite color range... I've already explained a few times why I chose to be known as Elsa. Basically, what you see with me here is what you'd see in real life, if I had RL access to hammerspace... What proffession would I choose in the world of Velgarth? I don't even know what I'll do in this one! I want to be a writer (this does not mean journalist, as all of my teachers assume; I'm talking AUTHOR here) but I know I have to do something else. I wonder how people feel about the Heralds? I mean, they are much like our police. I'm sure there are probably lots of people who think they're goody-goodies, or maybe bribable... Personally, I think of them much as I think of the police or the army. The police because they keep law and order, protect the citizens, and deal with crimes from regicide to domestic disputes. They're sort of judges, too. The Army is a lot like the police: special training, fight to protect, serve the people and the Monarch. But like the Army, Heralds have to obey not only all the regular laws but also rules within their organisation. They can't break all the laws they stand for (though, just like 'civilians', there are times when they'll be forgiven for doing so to save lives...in certain circumstances), but they also have extra laws to keep them in line, to keep them from slipping away from the path of 'good'. To protect and serve. So, what do you guys think? <> Sounds great, but I'm not sure I have all the qualifications. Plus, being in the OoDA probably disqualifies me... That reminds me, I have a query about lst protocol as relates to the Order of Drifting Ashes. Is there a set number of times (possibly within a certain time period) which a Listee can be, er, (re)inducted into the Order before he/she/it is banished from the list? If Cennydd, official fla- er, inductor of Listees into the Order were to be sick (let's hope not) or go on vacation or something, is one of the other Councilors appointed to temporarily fill his position, or do they just handle any outbreaks of undue mischief and fluffiness with righteous tongue lashings? <> Yes. Yakumo from YuYu Hakusho: Poltergeist Report might also qualify, as would any number of other Anime villains. Lots of them have long silvery hair and reasonably tanned skin. Personally, I prefer Jadeite (that's just Jedite spelt...uniquely.) Although, in the manga Neflite (Nephrite) is also pretty cool... he promises Jed's Eternally Sleeping form to avenge him, and he seems to get along better with Zoicite... *deletes long paragraph explaining the 4 generals* <> Here's hoping. Rini (Chibi-Usa) is kawoi. (not kawaii) <> Yes. <> .... is the coolest damn vamp in the show! (Okay, okay, Angel's starting to grow on me... but not enough.) Much as I love him, he's no Firesong *whistles innocently, trying hard not to say "and that's a ~good~ thing". Oh. Darn.* Hee hee hee. I love Slayers: The Motion Picture as much as the show, and Zelgadis is soooo kawaii!!!! Which is better, Companions of Unicorns? Well, I'd say Companions, because unicorns can change wildly depending on the author... Then again, some Unicorns are pretty cool, while some Companions can be annoying... oh well. Which do think is cooler, a kestra'chern or one of Warrl's people? *chases chibi-Amberdrake across the Hall* Well, th-th-th-that's all, 'Sibs! I gotta go clean out my other list (603 msg. *pales*) and then I'll read Born to Run. Promise. Really. Elsa Knight of Fluff, One In Black, Member of the Order of Drifting Ashes, OoUH Champion of Jonne, Moonbeam, Iceshadow, and Jaysen, caller of monsters, and Wielder of the Frying Pan of Doom! (tm) Would you rather... have living eyebrows that crawl about your face or leave a trail of paprika wherever you go? ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1884 **********************************