MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1885 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) sheep? by "Herald Katherine" 2) storm books by Lisa Holcomb 3) parental disaproval by AERDEN-+AT+-delphi.com 4) Storm books/fantacy reading by AERDEN-+AT+-delphi.com 5) "Censorship" by AERDEN-+AT+-delphi.com 6) Which is cooler? by AERDEN-+AT+-delphi.com 7) Sheep explnations/finding books by "Sharry Adams" 8) Re: Storm books/fantacy reading by Obsidian 9) Re: hey i'm a newbie by Rachesqka-+AT+-aol.com 10) Re: sheep? by LCM46-+AT+-aol.com 11) Reading ages.. by "Li'nia Stormdancer" 12) Re: vox populi, drifting ashes, coolness, and other stuff by Herald Katherine 13) Re: The age debate by Amy Trujillo 14) Welcome Lovesinger by Sheridan Hoy 15) Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 1884 by Ellen K Fluharty 16) MLlist: Parental Censorship by Kristine Kilpatrick 17) age/disaproval of fantasy by "Kalen [One In Black]" <95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk> 18) Re: Storm books/fantacy reading by Kenneth Allen Hyde 19) Re: fantacy reading. by Autumnleaf-+AT+-t-online.de (Autumnleaf) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 16:01:58 PST From: "Herald Katherine" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: sheep? Message-ID: <19990223000158.26844.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> Heyla, all! well, i'm still new at this list thing, so i made the sad mistake of ignoring my e-mail for a few days. it took me what seemed like FOREVER to finally finish reading over 50 messages! first of all. when i sat down to read, i had the song Bohemian Rhapsody stuck in my head, so when i found myself singing someone's message to the tune, i was convinced i had gone quite mad, until i realized what it was. that was a laugh and a half! (sorry, can't remember who posted it?) okay, like i said before, i'm new at this, so i'm assuming i missed something about sheep and towels and marshmallows. an explination would be GREATLY appreciated!!<> oh, and one other thing..... does anyone else have a REALLY hard time finding misty's books in local book stores? halifax is a pretty big city, but the only books that stores carry are the occasional AOTQ book. i have found others at the library, but i'd like to have my own copy of my favorites!! (if not all) -+AT+-----}----- A rose for my fellow list-sibs "There is no such thing as a coincidence, only mortals who have not fought the winds of fate." Wind to thy wings, Herald Katherine ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 16:37:30 -0800 (PST) From: Lisa Holcomb To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: storm books Message-ID: <19990223003730.15342.rocketmail-+AT+-send205.yahoomail.com> i just wanted to say thanks for the encouragement about the storm books...i've just never had this much trouble getting into anything (well, besides the evil robert jordan books) anyways, back to the stacks... lisa :) (frosted cookie sheep sound soooo good...i made frosted cookie moose yesterday!) == Lisa Holcomb awamiba-+AT+-yahoo.com http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Arc/5894 _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free -+AT+-yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 19:38:41 -0500 (EST) From: AERDEN-+AT+-delphi.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: parental disaproval Message-ID: <01J820U5XTB69C89MP-+AT+-delphi.com> On 22-FEB-1999 17:29:37.6 mercedes-lackey said to AERDEN me>He has even gone so far me>at times to have bought me copies of Sweet Valley High books! me>AHHHHHHGGGGG! YUCK! GAAAAAG! Davin--Ugh! I commiserate with you! That's like expecting an eighteen year-old to read Barbara Cartland romances. Bleah... With me, it was Star Trek. My parents liked the show when it was on in the sixties, but they're not Fans--ie, they didn't get into the fandom or go to conventions, or anything like that. They completely did not understand my adoration of the show, or why I would want to spend all summer reading Star Trek books and writing Star Trek stories when i was a teenager. They thought I was obsessed, and perhaps I was, though I didn't think I was. (g) My mother once accused me of wanting to live Trek, but, well, I would not be caught dead attending jury duty, for instance, in a Starfleet uniform, then or now. I will admit that their big complaint was that I would read fiction during school hours, and that was a valid concern. Oddly enough, I've found myself in recent years becoming MUCH more interested in non-fiction, particularly medicine, than I am in fiction. It's probably a good thing that my parents don't know the true size of my medical library...it would likely stun them. I can imagine them worrying that I'm obsessed with that, too. ::sigh:: Chantal ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 19:38:51 -0500 (EST) From: AERDEN-+AT+-delphi.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Storm books/fantacy reading Message-ID: <01J820UCSKHK9C89MP-+AT+-delphi.com> On 22-FEB-1999 17:29:39.8 mercedes-lackey said to AERDEN me>"why is it that those people (often parents) who do not understand me>the draw me>and enjoyment of reading fantasy books always see it as "trash" (my me>dad's me>words) and as something that ought to be restricted?" me>There probably is no one reason, but here are some that came into my me>mind the moment I read the post. One is that when they were young, me>they couldn't really read because they didn't have the conviniences me>of many of the modern day technology that we have access to so they me>had a lot less free time. Another reason is that to them, there is me>nothing useful to be gained from fantacy reading. The whole idea of me>magic is probably evil in their eyes as well. I wonder if most of me>them even know what fantacy is! I _think_ the people who want fantasy restricted or banned often feel that way for religious reasons. As for the people who consider it 'trash'--I sometimes wonder what it is they would prefer that people read? It might be useful to ask such a person that, if only to find out what their values are. If they'd rather see someone reading a book on plumbing, that would at least tell the fantasy reader that the person values practicality and tangible knowledge over imaginative, speculative things. The thing is, people like that don't realize that fantasy teaches you about _people_ and morality. They just don't see this; all they see is unicorns and wizards or dragons, instead of what can be learned from the unicorns, wizards, and dragons. Just my opinion; I could be wrong. (g) Chantal ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:10:56 -0500 (EST) From: AERDEN-+AT+-delphi.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: "Censorship" Message-ID: <01J821Y5ED429C8Y7H-+AT+-delphi.com> On 22-FEB-1999 19:13:00.1 mercedes-lackey said to AERDEN me>Since my middle name is "Jaelithe", a good witch in the me>"Witch World" series by Andre Norton, I have to admit that me>I've been reading sci-fi and fantasy longer than any other me>genre, and my mom helped! *big grin!* Her bookshelf was me>filled with what some would call "College Level" books that me>I started reading by 5th grade -- and upon re-reading them, me>I do realize exactly HOW MUCH of the sexual content I didn't me>understand. *wipes brow* (Whew!) And I do have to admit me>that as soon as they told me I couldn't read the sequals to me>"Clan of the Cave Bear", I started looking for them and me>hiding them (I think I was 11 or 12)! ::cough!:: Hoo boy! Yep, I can see why they wouldn't let you read those. (g) I read the sequels as soon as they came out, and they were definitely, um, steamy! I have fond memories of reading 'Clan.' My World History teacher, Mrs. Buckley, had that book on a table beside her desk. I picked it up out of curiosity one day before class and was hooked. Every day for a month, I would pore over that book until class started. Finally, Mrs. Buckley let me take it home with me. I finished it that weekend. I loved it! I was about 16 at the time, and it seemed to take _forever_ for Jean Auel to come out with the next ones. It took at least 3 or 4 years. It is strange, though, that they'd let you read the book in which the rape happened, but not the books with the healty, pleasurable sex. ::scratching head:: My parents, as far as I know, never tried to censor my reading. They forbade me to read one semester when I was making bad grades, but they never told me, "You may not read this particular book or watch this TV show." I'm very grateful for that. There are times when I think that I really might want to forbid my children (when I have them) to read or watch certain things--like, say, _Basic Instinct_ or _The Color of Night_. But, since my parents never did that to me, I don't feel quite right about doing that to my children, even though the thought of them seeing movies like those disturbs me. Chantal ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 20:11:08 -0500 (EST) From: AERDEN-+AT+-delphi.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Which is cooler? Message-ID: <01J821YGNQ729C8Y7H-+AT+-delphi.com> "Which is cooler, a kestra'chern or one of Warrl's people?" Oh, definitely one of Warrl's people, in my opinion. (g) They have _the_ most wonderful sense of humor, and besides, they're _furry_. (g) RRiss and Warrl were two of my favorite characters. Say, has anyone seen _October Sky_ yet? That is one fantastic movie. You will leave the movie theatre feeling inspired to go out and do wonderful things. it's about four teenage boys in 1957 who live in a West Virginia coal mining town. They start building model rockets and testing them in an attempt to win the Nathional Science Fair and get scholarships to college--the only way any of them can afford college. It is really, really good. Chantal ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 18:06:04 PST From: "Sharry Adams" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Sheep explnations/finding books Message-ID: <19990223020604.18409.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> Heyla listsibs! I've decided to take on a new use-name. So, Nightsong will no longer be. In her place is Lovesinger. :) Herald Katherine wrote: > oh, and one other thing..... does anyone else have a REALLY hard time finding misty's books in local book stores? halifax is a pretty big city, but the only books that stores carry are the occasional AOTQ book. i have found others at the library, but i'd like to have my own copy of my favorites!! (if not all) ------------- Actually, I've found it really easy to find Misty's books...well, the Valdemar ones, that is. I have all of those, but I haven't seen many of the others on the shelves. I do know that most book stores will order any book if you ask, though. As for the sheep thing, it's just an on-going joke on the list. There are quite a few sheep refrences in Misty's books. (Check the last page of Magic's Promise) It was all started long before my time! Welcome to the MLML! Wind to thy wings, Lovesinger (formerly, Nightsong) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 18:08:31 -0800 From: Obsidian To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Storm books/fantacy reading Message-ID: <36D20D9D.11B72706-+AT+-softhome.net> --------------B227188BC794FC2878B34E34 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Someone wrote: >obmisty anyone get stuck at the storm booksth i just can't get through them and i feel really awful about it. does it get better? will i adore these new people as much as the old ones? i need encouragement in a big way....> Actually, the Mage Storms were my favorite trilogy. Partly because of Karal, but then again, I haven't yet read LHM. >"why is it that those people (often parents) who do not understand the draw and enjoyment of reading fantasy books always see it as "trash" (my dad's words) and as something that ought to be restricted?"> I think it's mainly because fantasy is a fairly new genre. It deals with unrealistic stuff, that to this world, it just wild imagination. But as somebody said: 'People who live in reality have no imagination.' Speaking of the fantasy genre, does anybody hate the way everyone clutters the fantasy genre with the scifi genre? I hate that. As Eddings said in the Rivan Codex: 'It's probably that 'off-word' business in Tolkein that causes us to be lumped together with the science fiction, and we have no business on the same rack with SF. SF writers are technology freaks who blithely ignore the footnote in Einstein's theory of relativity which clearly states that when an object approaches the speed of light, its mass becomes infinite. (So much for warpdrive). If old Buck Rogers hits the gas-pedal a little too hard, he'll suddenly become the universe. Fantasists are magic and shining armor freaks who posit equally absurd notions with incantations...... or other mumbo-jumbo. They want to build a better screwdriver, and we want to come up with a better incantation. They want to go into the future, and we want to go into the past. We write better stories than they do, though. They get all bogged down in telling you how to watch the works; we just tell you what time it is and go on with the story. SF and fantasy shouldn't even speak to each other....' And that, ladies and gentlement, is the total truth. Sorry if this was long, but I couldn't help it. Fantasy is BETTer than scifi, why can't anyone realize that? Enough of my useless ranting..... Obsidian --------------B227188BC794FC2878B34E34 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit  
Someone wrote:
>obmisty  anyone get stuck at the storm booksth  i just can't get
     through them and i feel really awful about it.  does it get better?
     will i adore these new people as much as the old ones?  i need
     encouragement in a big way....>
Actually, the Mage Storms were my favorite trilogy. Partly because of Karal, but
then again, I haven't yet read LHM.

>"why is it that those people (often parents) who do not understand
     the draw
     and enjoyment of reading fantasy books always see it as "trash" (my
     dad's
     words) and as something that ought to be restricted?">
I think it's mainly because fantasy is a fairly new genre. It deals with unrealistic
stuff, that to this world, it just wild imagination. But as somebody said:
'People who live in reality have no imagination.'
Speaking of the fantasy genre, does anybody hate the way everyone clutters
the fantasy genre with the scifi genre? I hate that. As Eddings said in the Rivan
Codex: 'It's probably that 'off-word' business in Tolkein that causes us to be lumped
together with the science fiction, and we have no business on the same rack with
SF. SF writers are technology freaks who blithely ignore the footnote in Einstein's
theory of relativity which clearly states that when an object approaches the speed
of light,  its mass becomes infinite. (So much for warpdrive). If old Buck Rogers
hits the gas-pedal a little too hard, he'll suddenly become the universe. Fantasists
are magic and shining armor freaks who posit equally absurd notions with
incantations...... or other mumbo-jumbo. They want to build a better screwdriver,
and we want to come up with a better incantation. They want to go into the future,
and we want to go into the past. We write better stories than they do, though.
They get all bogged down in telling you how to watch the works; we just tell
you what time it is and go on with the story. SF and fantasy shouldn't even speak
to each other....'
And that, ladies and gentlement, is the total truth. Sorry if this was long, but I couldn't
help it. Fantasy is BETTer than scifi, why can't anyone realize that?

Enough of my useless ranting.....

Obsidian
  --------------B227188BC794FC2878B34E34-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 21:18:47 EST From: Rachesqka-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: hey i'm a newbie Message-ID: <4862fb68.36d21007-+AT+-aol.com> Hey, I'm delurking twice in one day, I've got too much time, I guess. No homework, or at least none that I'm doing. Lisa wrote, <> Hang in there Lisa, as I remember, I found the beginningish-middle to be very dull as well, but I was very glad that I finished it because the ending makes it all worth while. If my memory serves, I thought the ending of that trilogy was excellent, so don't give up! You'll agree with me, I'm sure, when you get there! I grew to adore An'desha and Karal and Altra the most of all the characters. Right off the bat I felt like I knew Karal because I could identify with him so well, and how could you not love Altra, and An'desha is just, well, adorable. *g* Coconut filled chocolate sheep to all! Zhai'helleva, ~Starshadow K'Connecticut Bonded of Trin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 22:26:38 EST From: LCM46-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: sheep? Message-ID: <9cde58c6.36d21fee-+AT+-aol.com> In a message dated 2/22/99 8:21:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, herald_katherine-+AT+-hotmail.com writes: << oh, and one other thing..... does anyone else have a REALLY hard time finding misty's books in local book stores? Halifax is a pretty big city, but the only books that stores carry are the occasional AOTQ book. >> Considering the length of time the books have been in publication, it isn't strange at all. The largest chains here in town, Barnes & Noble, AND Borders rarely have many of her books. I'd suggest trying a used bookstore, you may have more success. Also, buyers tend to order what 'sells', and Fantasy, although popular, is basically read (I think) by people who do not have a lot of money to spend (ie: the younger members of society). LOVE Halifax--beautiful city--would like to visit again. (Consider joining the "Canada for World Domination" organization, will you?) :-) Just my .02/back into lurking mode (busy w/college apps for the #4 kid). Lorraine Laundry/Domestic Goddess Appreciator of Penguins But I'm not dead yet! MP/Holy Grail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 19:35:47 PST From: "Li'nia Stormdancer" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Reading ages.. Message-ID: <19990223033547.15096.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> *Spying her wingsister Rainsong hiding behind a sheep, Stormdance readies herself for a barrage of very ripe vegetables as she once again steps up onto her soapbox* I've seen a lot of people's messages about how their parents didn't encourage or even like their reading fantasy, saying that it was garbage or useless. I guess I just got lucky, because my mom (dad didn't have much input) always encouraged me to read. I started with mysteries, because that's her favorite, but once she discovered that I liked fantasy and sci-fi, she never held me back (even though she doesn't understand the attraction). I was always sneaking books into class for that odd free minute; I just can't put books down sometimes. Misty's one of the author's that do that to me. And honestly, I feel sorry for someone who is told they can't read what they want. I guess that's all I have to say this time....... *Stormdance jumps down off soapbox and dashes over to where Rainsong is ducking for cover, certain to have SOMETHING thrown in her direction* *g* Wind to thy wings! Stormdance k'T'more and Kuus aka Li'nia Stormdancer, Peon to the Powers That Be, Devotee to the Order of Unsung Heroes ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 21:23:17 PST From: Herald Katherine To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: vox populi, drifting ashes, coolness, and other stuff Message-ID: <19990223052317.25256.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> elsa wrote...... ><Zodiac sign traits are sometimes entirely too accurate?>> > Yep. I am definately a Libra. My belief in Balance gets stronger with >each passing day. (You'd almost think I was becoming a Harper...) > and.... ><ice blue eyes, triangular shaped face, golden skin, so Hawkbrother >looking! Has anyone else noticed that?>> > Yes. Yakumo from YuYu Hakusho: Poltergeist Report might also qualify, as >would any number of other Anime villains. Lots of them have long silvery >hair and reasonably tanned skin. > Personally, I prefer Jadeite (that's just Jedite spelt...uniquely.) >Although, in the manga Neflite (Nephrite) is also pretty cool... he promises >Jed's Eternally Sleeping form to avenge him, and he seems to get along >better with Zoicite... *deletes long paragraph explaining the 4 generals* > ><Malachite will return and rid the world of the Evil that is Chibi Moon.>> > Here's hoping. Rini (Chibi-Usa) is kawoi. (not kawaii) well, once i was in the mall and this horoscope lady was running this booth, and for $5 i took this test to see if i was a true libra. the lady went nuts!! she was all over the place, and she wasn't even breathing right! she was one of those spiritual ladies that believe in all that hocus-pocus (no offense to those that do). she said she never saw anyone so close to a libra as i had been, and she asked me for my fingerprint or something. i just kind of backed off. malchite (or Kunzite, in the japanese) does look like a Tayledras!! (if he could lose that gray garb, and try some mage robes.) it's great to see some anime fans on the list. maybe some day the world will know the end of chibiusa. until then, we can always do our best to ignore her!! well, i tried to find a picture of kunzite but no can do. sorry. i'll keep trying, and forward one eventually. > -+AT+-----}----- A rose for my fellow list-sibs "There is no such thing as a coincidence, only mortals who have not fought the winds of fate." Wind to thy wings, Herald Katherine ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 23:23:53 -0600 From: Amy Trujillo To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: The age debate Message-ID: <36D23B66.78AF-+AT+-southwind.net> Heyla listsibs, Just wanted to add my two cents to the great reading debate. I have to agree with those that have said that its a matter of maturity. I have loved to read since the fourth grade, I read the Hobbit that year and have been reading ever since. I also think parents that are responsible but flexible helps, my parents bought me Jean Auel's the Children of the Earth series when I was in the fifth grade and those books have some very explicit sex scenes in them. I read and loved the books and just took the sex to be part of the story. I guess really a parent should gage the reading level by the way the child reacts to some things. If the boy or girl still think the opposite sex is "icky" or has the cooties, they are probably not mature enough to read books like Misty's. I do have a series to suggest though the author is Laurence Yep and the first book in the series is Dragon of The Lost Seas, they are very well written and are based upon Chinese mythology. Until next time, Rasberry truffle sheep to everyone Amy Ferret Friend Lady of All Things Missing, Especially Socks ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 17:36:26 +1300 From: Sheridan Hoy To: "'mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk'" Subject: Welcome Lovesinger Message-ID: <01BE5F54.202C0540-+AT+-port16.ts2.auck.sinesurf.co.nz> ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE5F54.202C0540 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Wind to thy Wings Lovesinger, and welcome. I live in New Zealand and Mercedes Lackey books only used to be = available from a special Sci-Fi/Fantasy book store but now they are far = more mainstream. The only gripe I have is that they take SOOOOO long to = get here whereas movies are much faster. Maybe it is to do with how much = is costs to air freight books but who knows what the real story is.=20 My parents are always encouraged me to read, and I can not ever remember = a time when they didn't want me reading anything, but then I discovered = Mercedes Lackey rather late in life. Also New Zealand has been rather = protected (put censored in if you like) with regard to literature, = movies, television and the like and so there wasn't anything there they = worried about. Bright the Day, tamlin ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE5F54.202C0540 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+Ig0EAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYA6AEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAVwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAG1lcmNlZGVzLWxhY2tl eUBoZXJhbGQuY28udWsAU01UUABtZXJjZWRlcy1sYWNrZXlAaGVyYWxkLmNvLnVrAAAeAAIwAQAA AAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AAzABAAAAHQAAAG1lcmNlZGVzLWxhY2tleUBoZXJhbGQuY28udWsAAAAA AwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAAHwAAACdtZXJjZWRlcy1sYWNrZXlAaGVyYWxkLmNvLnVr JwAAAgELMAEAAAAiAAAAU01UUDpNRVJDRURFUy1MQUNLRVlASEVSQUxELkNPLlVLAAAAAwAAOQAA AAALAEA6AQAAAB4A9l8BAAAAHQAAAG1lcmNlZGVzLWxhY2tleUBoZXJhbGQuY28udWsAAAAAAgH3 XwEAAABXAAAAAAAAAIErH6S+oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIAAAAAbWVyY2VkZXMtbGFja2V5QGhlcmFsZC5j by51awBTTVRQAG1lcmNlZGVzLWxhY2tleUBoZXJhbGQuY28udWsAAAMA/V8BAAAAAwD/XwAAAAAC AfYPAQAAAAQAAAAAAAACAW8BBIABABMAAABXZWxjb21lIExvdmVzaW5nZXIACgcBBYADAA4AAADP BwIAFwARACQAGgACAEABASCAAwAOAAAAzwcCABcAEQAaAAwAAgAoAQEJgAEAIQAAAEY4RjA5NkJB NDJDQkQyMTE5MjFCNDQ0NTUzNTQwMDAwAOkGAQOQBgCoCQAAIQAAAAsAAgABAAAACwAjAAAAAAAD ACYAAAAAAAsAKQAAAAAAAwAuAAAAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQAgDLIS5l6+AR4AcAABAAAAEwAAAFdl bGNvbWUgTG92ZXNpbmdlcgAAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAb5e5hC8upbw+ctCEdKSG0RFU1QAAAAAHgAe DAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAB8MAQAAABYAAAB0YW1saW5Ac2luZXN1cmYuY28ubnoAAAADAAYQ eENmiQMABxB5AgAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAAV0lORFRPVEhZV0lOR1NMT1ZFU0lOR0VSLEFORFdFTENP TUVJTElWRUlOTkVXWkVBTEFOREFORE1FUkNFREVTTEFDS0VZQk9PS1NPTkxZVVNFRFRPQkVBVkFJ TEFCTEVGUk9NQQAAAAACAQkQAQAAAJEGAACNBgAAyA0AAExaRnWX/ucCAwAKAHJjcGcxMjVyMgxg YzEDMAEHC2BukQ4QMDMzDxZmZQ+STwH3AqQDYwIAY2gKwHOEZXQC0XBycTIAAJIqCqFubxJQIDAB 0IUB0DYPoDA1MDQUIfMB0BQQNH0HbQKDAFAD1PsR/xMLYhPhFFATshj0FNCvBxMCgAKRCOY7CW8w Gt/6ZQ4wNRwKHSEc3x3pG/T/HhIcfyBPIA0fjx2/HA8QYPwyOCXaJvEmrye5G/Qn4r8mTyofKd0p XyePK1Q5DlAfLqQwASgjMAACgnN0eepsB5BoCeB0AAATUAPwUGRjdGwKsVwyWGGYZGp1MXAFEGdo BUI7FjIMAWMJwDJgAzBzbnxleBcwB7AFsADAAnNzsQBQc2IyFFAxYGET8PRcawngcAuQMj8yowhg 6zKQC4BlMaB2OWABQDObvwwwNGQoADdABKALgGcn8ek05mJhFxBkAiA1oDVG5zHQM5A7kSAxMTMO UDaf/zevOL8AUTn8AKA0bjx/PYb/MSQPwD6PP59Arw5QOe9DD9tEHz2zMwKCExBjNmBLoZMzkD2w dGk5kCBEARCoYXVsBUBQCsBhCcDgYXBoIEYCITYkJUDoZmktD5A4AUA5MFAz60cPMqNiCyByCVBS Uhag2VJSdzQlQRcAcAHQTXJ/M79Kn0umT9BOkAUQAjAtQ08wA2E6IFRvV7BTKHViagWQdFewRGHo dGU6NiQ2T/9RD1If/1MvVDkxwD2jDiFLoTq2DlCbVW9WflI5gRcBIEg9kfsEkDYkN1lvWn9bj1yd OQ8vXb8PkGlwCNBiCrB0OP9J+g9URhBfv2DGagBh0AtQvHkvT0BcsAsRYkVzNiT/KABjP2RPZV9c r1RPa19sb+9tdVfSV3RYqTlvvzM/AzAdabM5c590r3qgRG9j/nUHgAIwBdBPABoBeNJ4MPd4cHFR AYBuWDAAYAnwTaDvfQACATXgXlJlAPB9ADGAknAegFx2CJB3awuA/mRrQICiBPAHQBBhAUAOAO9x Ij2CggUCEG8FQhchEvINWMBtC1FYwCBDOlzqXFcAb07hbU8wAxAHkE2EsE0N4ANgc28BgCCuTwEg DeB/8FyGZkUAwPUDEC5LcHR90BcQeHA1Ie1ncngBQH8BbjHQGvCIBD1ONGMDIBLzAIAFkGx2/0Gh RtAOcDXgipIBkAAgiyL/gPF9QQHBipEW4A9wAABG0PMM0AGQIC4aEoqIDlCLQv9OcHjAi7+Mz43f D8BG0AWBt49/kI+Rn2xrQEbQbI8/+5P/lQUpjgwlQJLfl7+U9PhiICgCkZjfitNZUJaP/5tPnF+d b4sAYxCesouPoB//oS+ODCgAnr+kP6VPpl+LAP94AKM/qM+p36rkCvkDMHgvE3k/es17V4DxIHRv UbPgaHkgs6FnBCBMnm9n0ACQD3AEkCwgAHDdNSB3Z6AFoAeALgqFCoW8SSBncE3xsEEHwlo9kPcP UTUgtYJNBJCGoAEAtKHPANBGoLRABuBvawQgAiBdbTAgshAJgLPiYhOAYW52h4EBoDGgIANStXAg 33KABZAHMQYAvGAthVBtUPsAcAGQc7mkvCCz8BrwubD9Z1AgsIG0EbmRCsC7oQrBvwRgviGHcayh GvCFIC5XwP8x0LoUNPGAYLcRFuC3YgQgv7QgWLC+xAGQRqAGAE/DQv+3MAIgPeCz8bUwBUCJMrWw v4kyS0C/kYChBCC/Im0OcL9PIE5AMXAEkMCQfYB5uvF/TcDCA7QAS3C1sE3ATyBo/76hxePCEQWg MXDHUwtwBcB9A1BlslO5xL5SxLC0AGvvsIEEIMSwwmQgwFEDIL3y77RABADAkLZMTbRACrF9QffF hAdAbZB5BCAJ8AWgCHDfTtC6kQeAs+LAUWS1ZLcg/4GQA6ATUAVAYeLL8QeABtD/0aGVUE3Qz+HE sQOgvtM9sPOJEAAQcXWDQM/xtbC9Me/P0tBCPcIAcHm0IDuRtWD/vlK+0QOgtyA9sATwtNEa8f+4 v07AvtEFwIRDsEFncBBQ+cCQQWyGELe7FuDKcQnhn9hGF3DT8bDQupEocL5hP4agAIC+ETUgsEEG kCB5twhgtzFGoCnHxBrwZ22i37PxZ3DGYViwCHBltWDFNO+1YFjAZ7EEAGkCILVzy8L/3dK1c9nB 2HLEkUtA06nVVvviRb7TdwWwCIG4YQbgZ1Cdtj1CskTLwligeSy2TJ0BkG1ncQqFGhAAAOlwAAAA AwAQEAAAAAADABEQAAAAAAMAgBD/////QAAHMECK8aTkXr4BQAAIMECK8aTkXr4BCwAAgAggBgAA AAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAA4UAAAAAAAADAAKACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAQhQAAAAAAAAMA BYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAFKFAAC3DQAAHgAlgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAVIUA AAEAAAAEAAAAOC4wAAMAJoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAGFAAAAAAAACwAvgAggBgAAAAAA wAAAAAAAAEYAAAAADoUAAAAAAAADADCACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAARhQAAAAAAAAMAMoAI IAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABiFAAAAAAAAHgBBgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAANoUAAAEA AAABAAAAAAAAAB4AQoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADeFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAEOACCAG AAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA4hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgA9AAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAAMADTT9NwAA 2RE= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE5F54.202C0540-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 02:49:42 -0500 From: Ellen K Fluharty To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 1884 Message-ID: <19990223.024943.-4003465.0.efluharty-+AT+-juno.com> Wow!! I never guessed that my question would cause so much debate in regards to censorship. It would never be my attempt to censure my daughter's reading (goodness knows it didn't work with me!) but to do my best to guide her choice of books until which time I think she has reached the maturity level necessary to read Misty's books. I am of the opinion that violence, especially sexual violence is not something that children should be exposed to until they are no longer children, but young adults instead. This saddens me to some extent though, because I love Misty, and want to share her work with my daughter, without snipping parts out. That's why I'm trying to come up with some sort of list of Misty's books that are appropriate. A good suggestion made by a few listsibs was the Owl books. When I was younger, my parents did try to censor my reading. I'll never forget being a freshman in high school and watching my father trash my copies of The Hobbit and my Lord of The Rings trilogy. As to the question: Why do (parents in particular) people think that sci-fi and fantasy novels are trashy novels...or worthless....? I've always thought that there were several reasons why.... First and foremost, they have probably never read one....it goes without saying that it is easy to put down what you do not know anything about. Second, the covers of a lot of the books, as bad as romance novels, (and most romance novels are trash) (no offence meant if you like romance) Third, the fear that reading fantasy puts people out of touch with reality...does anyone here remember the old Dungeons and Dragons scare...."oh dear, my child might think that dragons are real and go skewer somebody with a sword!" Fourth and Final (let's face it) some people see no need to develop their imagination, and enjoying fantasy is only possible if your mind is willing to suspend disbelief. These are just my opinions, please no flaming sheep.... Everyone has had some really great things to say on the subject... :-) Rainbow sheep shaped lollipops dipped in sherbet for all! Ellen shena Liha'irden Lady in Green Keeper of Ingrid, the boogie woogie beanie lamb WV Spy for CfWD She'endra to Laurel shena Dester'tale ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 05:46:12 -0600 From: Kristine Kilpatrick To: "'Mercedes Lackey list'" Subject: MLlist: Parental Censorship Message-ID: <01BE5EEF.D3303860-+AT+-qualis123.qualisinc.com> ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE5EEF.D337D980 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I started reading very early and never looked back. I was the reason our = local bookmobile had to keep rotating the books, because I got bored = with the same ones again. The only book that I actively remember being = told that I couldn't read was Helter Skelter, the book about the Manson = murders. I read Stephen King, David Eddings, Jean Auel, Frank Herbert = and Piers Anthony in grade school and high school. I was told to ask = someone if I had a question about the content or something. My parents were not the warm fuzzy type either. Sex was a big no-no in = our household. They just respected my judgement and my maturity. I = really think that it depends on the child and the maturity level. And, I = don't agree with reading them out loud and snipping out the "bad" parts. = Not cool. Too close to censorship. If you want them to read the book, = just hand it to them. my $0.03...... ~AngelFire ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE5EEF.D337D980 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+Ig4LAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYA0AEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAewAAAAAAAAC1O8LALHcQGqG8CAArKlbCFQAAACTt6CUuD9IRlxIAYAgy bcokiwAAAAAAAIErH6S+oxAZnW4A3QEPVAIAAAAATWVyY2VkZXMgTGFja2V5IGxpc3QAU01UUABt ZXJjZWRlcy1sYWNrZXlAaGVyYWxkLmNvLnVrAAAeAAIwAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AAzABAAAA HQAAAG1lcmNlZGVzLWxhY2tleUBoZXJhbGQuY28udWsAAAAAAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATAB AAAAFwAAACdNZXJjZWRlcyBMYWNrZXkgbGlzdCcAAAIBCzABAAAAIgAAAFNNVFA6TUVSQ0VERVMt TEFDS0VZQEhFUkFMRC5DTy5VSwAAAAMAADkAAAAACwBAOgEAAAAeAPZfAQAAABUAAABNZXJjZWRl cyBMYWNrZXkgbGlzdAAAAAACAfdfAQAAACwAAAC/AAAAtTvCwCx3EBqhvAgAKypWwhUAAAAk7egl Lg/SEZcSAGAIMm3KJIsAAAMA/V8BAAAAAwD/XwAAAAACAfYPAQAAAAQAAAAAAAACU2MBBIABABwA AABNTGxpc3Q6IFBhcmVudGFsIENlbnNvcnNoaXAAJAoBBYADAA4AAADPBwIAFwAFAC4ADAACADAB ASCAAwAOAAAAzwcCABcABQAlAC8AAgBKAQEJgAEAIQAAADZENDlFMTZBRTBDQUQyMTE5NzEzMDA2 MDA4MzI2RENBAAoHAQOQBgCEBgAAIAAAAAsAAgABAAAACwAjAAAAAAADACYAAAAAAAsAKQAAAAAA AwA2AAAAAABAADkAYLClHCJfvgEeAHAAAQAAABwAAABNTGxpc3Q6IFBhcmVudGFsIENlbnNvcnNo aXAAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAb5fIhx6ww4co8rhEdKXEwBgCDJtygAAHgAeDAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAA AAAeAB8MAQAAABgAAABrcmlzdGluZWtAcXVhbGlzaW5jLmNvbQADAAYQ6HQi4wMABxC8AgAAHgAI EAEAAABlAAAASVNUQVJURURSRUFESU5HVkVSWUVBUkxZQU5ETkVWRVJMT09LRURCQUNLSVdBU1RI RVJFQVNPTk9VUkxPQ0FMQk9PS01PQklMRUhBRFRPS0VFUFJPVEFUSU5HVEhFQk9PS1MsQgAAAAAC AQkQAQAAAG4DAABqAwAAjAQAAExaRnW6ngxDAwAKAHJjcGcxMjUWMgD4C2BuDhAwMzOdAfcgAqQD 4wIAY2gKwOBzZXQwIAcTAoMAUOME5QIAcHJxDlAQ6AhQ3m0N4AYEBeACgH0KgAjIbCA7CW8OMDUV mg4gOM8KIxehAoAKgXVjAFALA4ZjEhILxCBJIHMBkEsAIAmAIAlwYWQLgGckIHYEkHkgGqBybKcb QABwGnBuZRsRIAkAlG9rGmFiANBrLhnhRHdhBCB0aGUagnPtAiAgCGEcUWMHQBzAHHE9BGBiAxAd sBEAGnB0b1IgHJBlcBqAbwGQdGca0h2SHuJzLBzABZBh9nURMBnhZyBgHtEJcR1A5mkdkB2Dc2EH gB4wHADZBCBhZwtxHRBUHaECIP8bkR7iHYEggBnhANAgkBsQ/xuRCXAHgAbQHDEhkCCjBvCXH7El ZAWgdSdgbicFQO8akh1DDGADIEgmEBpQBcD+UxyQKYIpIRFgIXAg5huwbQbgdQVAHZJNAHEeEW1b CHAEgXMdEiiTUxpQcBsdoAOgSxrRIXBEYXayaRpwRWQawiFhShqglQOgQQpQbCFwRnIAcLslMClg ciahBUAbwlAIkfUEIEECMGgCIBtAC4AiIH8v4AEAGgAQ8BxwAyAbwmj8aWcjADJkHRcnUx/gHWDf JTAeAAeAI7ExwGYZ4R+S2GEgcQpQGhBpHhErSP8FoAIwCfAFQAWxNQIdkBrR7i4KogqECoBNG0AK sTeh7QQgdwSQHbBuIkEdkh1QgHJtIGZ1enobQLh0eXAdsCbwHZFyHRB9BmB4HUM2EB9AGvA6cC3/ OnAxwh5CMYAh0TGAJ2AkU+0bQGoh0ChyczvAJdAaYfJtPwJkZyZhN7EbwkAR3QDAdAhxO6AsxWwb kThS+yU1IuAgAQA7wBvQBCAeEf83IzMQJ2Ebwh2SQVYcUBwR2zOxMVBkIXAZ8GQCIChh/yQACdEi xBqWHZE7ICtiCQDLQFAbs3MDAHBwGtIrZnIiHNBkIjmSOfAdEE73IkEFoDOiVBxwJ/AJACHhvR/R YwnwHgARIDMQcB0R/TWQeQhgHUE3sUgzH9Eok/8g5iFwPyMRABvRQzEf0UgyozirQBEkMC4PUC5S Iw84tRkwEwESIjIyIH7jMVBAcGxGaQlwGSo4tAUUsQBVsAAAAwAQEAAAAAADABEQAAAAAAMAgBD/ ////QAAHMGCznu8gX74BQAAIMGCznu8gX74BCwAAgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAA4UAAAAA AAADAAKACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAQhQAAAAAAAAMABYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAA AFKFAAC3DQAAAwANgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAAYUAAAAAAAAeABaACCAGAAAAAADAAAAA AAAARgAAAABUhQAAAQAAAAQAAAA4LjAACwAagAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAADoUAAAAAAAAD ABuACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAARhQAAAAAAAAMAHYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABiF AAAAAAAAHgAsgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAANoUAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4ALYAIIAYAAAAA AMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADeFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAC6ACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA4hQAA AQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgA9AAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAAMADTT9NwAAjoY= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE5EEF.D337D980-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:45:42 GMT From: "Kalen [One In Black]" <95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk> To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: age/disaproval of fantasy Message-ID: <103CD4756F15-+AT+-alnilam.mmu.ac.uk> > From: "L. J. Thompson" > On a related note, I do > agree to some degree with your response that people in middle school > may not be comfortable with some things, such as a shaych character, > but I personally feel that they are going to run into that at some > point and that middle school is as good of a time as any to start > thinking about that sort of thing. To true. I think that children should start being told about shaych people [truth not stereotype] around middle school [thats around age 12 isn't it? ] I wish I had had some discussion about it in my secondary school [UK starts age 12]. Then maybe I would not have felt so worthless for so many years and hid the fact that I am shaych until I was 23. Any other shaych people wish they had read Misty earlier than they did? > but I've had many, > many teachers tell me that I have "so much potential" and that I > need to start reading "real books" or 'good literature." Bah. Most > literature that I've read has been boring and put me to sleep. Tell me about it!!!!! From: Julia Gray >Finally there are those fellow readers I find who read the same >things i do - then we can have intelligent conversations about it >and argue the merits of the plot, debate the author's >characterization and sometimes heartily disagree about favorite >scenes. I can relate to that. There are a group of us who met through Queens Own about 4 years ago who get together a few times a year. That first time we met we were in a pub and were talking and using a lot of Tale'edras words, other people in the pub were looking at us very strangely. The husband of one of the women really winds her up, she has done her Herald requirements for Q.O. so he kept asking her at meals for a long time if she had fed the horse yet. ********************************************** "Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here, we might as well dance." Kalen [OIB] 95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk, uthro-+AT+-hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Rapids/7701/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 10:46:10 -0500 (EST) From: Kenneth Allen Hyde To: Misty Lackey List Subject: Re: Storm books/fantacy reading Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Feb 1999, Obsidian wrote: > Speaking of the fantasy genre, does anybody hate the way everyone > clutters the fantasy genre with the scifi genre? I hate that. As > Eddings said in the Rivan Codex: 'It's probably that 'off-word' > business in Tolkein that causes us to be lumped together with the > science fiction, and we have no business on the same rack with SF. Actually, I think if Eddings had really read and thought about Tolkien's work on secondary worlds (most clearly articulated in "On Faery Stories"), he would realize that sci-fi and fant-fi are similar genres. In fact, Eddings seems to acknowledge this fact later in the quoted section when he explicitly compares the two: "SF writers are technology freaks" and "Fantasists are magic and shining armor freaks". In both cases, the authors are interested in creating a secondary world that differs from the primary world of the reader. In Sci-Fi, the differences in the secondary world are predicated on technological differences, while in Fant-Fi, the differences are predicated in non-technological differences. However, in both cases, the fundamental differences between the secondary and primary worlds usually involve a change in the basic physics of the secondary world (violations of conservation of matter and energy). > And that, ladies and gentlement, is the total truth. Sorry if this was > long, but I couldn't help it. Fantasy is BETTer than scifi, why can't > anyone realize that? Because it's not true? There is very good Fant-Fi, but there is also very good Sci-Fi. And there are truly bad examples of both genres. Nor have I ever had the impression that one or the other genre had a numerical superiority over the other, as far as having more good books goes. May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd Councilor of Mist Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me //www.ling.udel.edu/hyde/prof/ken.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 16:57:34 +0100 From: Autumnleaf-+AT+-t-online.de (Autumnleaf) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: fantacy reading. Message-ID: Healy, Just fought my way through the masses of snow around our house. When I had finished clearing the pavement on the North side I found that the previously cleared pavement on the West side was full of snow again. And it doesn't look as if it would stop snowing or storming any time soon. (JIIIIIPIIIIII!!!! I love snow and shoveling snow and throwing snow balls to my cats. It's so great!!!) Chantal wrote: > I _think_ the people who want fantasy restricted or banned often feel that > way for religious reasons. As for the people who consider it 'trash'--I > sometimes wonder what it is they would prefer that people read? It might be > useful to ask such a person that, if only to find out what their values are. I work as a volunteer at our local animal shelter. Once a month, we have a fleamarket to raise money. I'm in charge of the used books section (*drool*). One Saturday, I was asked by a father if we had books for young adults. His son should read something more mature than Three Investigators. I recommended some SF (we didn't have Fantasy that day) and he nearly exploded! His son would not read trash. I just shrugged and asked him to look for himself. When he came back to pay for the books he had chosen I had to hide my amusment: Jules Verne for his son and a box of books by Harold Robins and the like for him. And she wrote: > The thing is, people like that don't realize that fantasy teaches you about > _people_ and morality. They just don't see this; all they see is unicorns > and wizards or dragons, instead of what can be learned from the unicorns, > wizards, and dragons. Yes, that is why I read fantasy. I have to admit that there is trash amongst it but sometimes you will find a juwel, a book that makes you think. Good authors have a message or a philosophy "hidden" in their story. It's similar to traveling: you get to know other people, their opinions and their way of living. That's one of the reasons why I don't restrict my reading to fantasy only. If a book sounds interesting I will pick it up. If it bores me stiff and doesn't improve after the next two chapters I'll put it down again. The Big Reading Debate: My sister is 7 years younger than I and she used to ask me for books when she was younger. She found my books more interesting than those suitable for her age group. It improved her reading skill, her knowledge (side effect: it made her into a know-all who corrected you to the second figure after the point. Fortunately she grew out of it - most of the times) and her expressive skill. Hey, she even became a professional book-seller! (side effect: 20% discount on anything I buy in her shop :) ) I had a couple of mysteries and thrillers with lots of violence and sex in it and I told her that she could not read them until she was older. A couple of months later, she celebrated her birthday and read the books without asking permission because: "I am older now!" She didn't like them, BTW, because of "all the smooching". Censorship is friutless (strange look it has, this word *puzzle*). It will only make you curious to read those books. My parents never censored anything (apart from "You are not allowed to watch TV for two weeks because you smashed that window"). My mom even read the same books that I read. I borrowed a lot of SF stuff from the library during my teens (didn't know that fantasy existed then) and she read it all and liked it. We also could speak about sex but still I never got along well with her. I guess I was a troubling child and teen and still am as an adult. What I wanted to say: my mom encouraged us to read. She didn't care what we read as long as we did so. The only thing we can talk about without quarreling is books. My sister recommends them, mom and I read them and then we discuss them. Kalen wrote: (BTW, I hope you're feeling a bit better) >My point being that just because something was written in Elizabethan times or >in the 19th Century etc and has been classed as having a high intelectual value >does not mean it is better than things that the "masses" read. That is all this >prejudice is, people who are academics who believe there is high culture and >low culture. Yeah, those people gave me zero points for one question of my oral exams. They wanted to know the difference between modern English and modern American writers. I answered (honestly as I am) that I couldn't see any big difference. Both were trying to sell their work so they had to write for the taste of the mass market. All the difference I could find were depending on the background of the individual writer but that had little to do with nationality. I was then told that modern writers lived and worked during the 50s to 70s and that we were discussing literature not *putting on a disgusted face* mass market production. *Steps of the soap-box with a sheepish grin. Torell, her JEster, comes along, sees the soap-box and snatches it away. With a mischievous grin he conjurs his notorious non-cold non-wet snow into the box. He then approaches the Newbie Lisa. "Heyla, welcome to our Madness, I mean, the Misty List. If you need any information, bother those with Councilor of Mist in their signature and read the Newbiefest under: http://www.ling.udel.edu/hyde/pers/misty/newbiefest.html" This said, he dumps the whole soap-box full of snow over Lisas head and vanishes.* Oh yes, BTW, I found the Storm books quite interesting after I got into them. All the technical things and inventions! I loved how Misty explained the way things worked. But then, I'm a technology freak. Must be something my cat Oskar inherited from me. He was the first to explore the new dishwasher and he "helped" the man from the phone company to install our new phone system. (Well, he borrowed his tools and hid some of the plugs under the couch) *One nice no-cold non-wet snow-ball mysteriously plunges into Lovesinger. "It's a baptize gift", a voice calls out.* Soap-box sheep to all. Shantaya Autumnleaf and her familiar, Torell, the JEster "He who burns books will burn people as well." (forgot who said that one) ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1885 **********************************