MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1886 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 1882 by "Kirstin Ramey" 2) Re: Blindness in Misty's books by Elizabeth Hoffman 3) Censorship by "Quietfire k'T'more" 4) RE: braid by ikunkle-+AT+-andover.edu (Izzy Kunkle) 5) just about anything by "Kristy Lyseng" 6) Query.... by "Li'nia Stormdancer" 7) Re: fantacy reading. by Lisa Holcomb 8) Re: Storm books/fantacy reading by Greg Wooledge 9) Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 1884 by "Sharry Adams" 10) Re: Censorship by Obsidian 11) Email address by Katrina C Stayduhar 12) age/disaproval of fantasy by AERDEN-+AT+-delphi.com 13) Re: Blindness in Misty's books by AERDEN-+AT+-delphi.com 14) Alberich/Query..../books by "Kalen [One In Black]" <95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk> 15) Re: Blindness in Misty's books by Autumnleaf-+AT+-t-online.de (Autumnleaf) 16) Re: age/disaproval of fantasy by "Phoenix, Guardian of Harmony" 17) Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 1885 by "Jennifer M. Shultz" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 08:57:12 PST From: "Kirstin Ramey" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 1882 Message-ID: <19990223165713.23211.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> I agree with AmbermoonSinger on recomending Winter_of_Fire by Sheryl Jordan. That is one of my favorite books (right under Misty's!). That was the first book that I ever took the time to reread. Come to think about it it is the only book I have ever read a second time. I want to reread all of Misty's books but I don't have the time at present. In my earlier posting I said that I had reread a book called Sweet_Blood but that was only because I had read half of it and then lost the book, when I found it again I decided to start from the begining again instead of where I left off. I know this is almost totaly off the subject of Misty stuff but I do strongly recomend that book for reading. Got to go tend the sheep, Ookamiko ^.^ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 17:18:18 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) From: Elizabeth Hoffman To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Blindness in Misty's books Message-ID: lady g aka rainstar / Gisela Vazquez said > Can you get access to Audio books? I'm totally blind and until recently that's the only way I've been able to read them. Now there's this machine, (that I've finally got installed at school,) and what it does is convert the text into synthetic speech. I'm really glad to have it because now I can just pick up any of her books and scan them save them on to a disk and read them.< I wondered how well written Misty's blind characters were. Theres Karal who becomes blind at the end of Storm Breaking, but he has Altra's eyes to literally look through. Theres the miner in Sword of Ice but if I remember rightly she lost her legs in the same accident. This sort of stems from my turning on the TV last week and coming across a program aimed at addressing topics surrounding anything that can come under the disability heading. There was a bunch of kids discussing the how few disabled people there were in childrens books that they could relate to. I couldn't really come up with many non-token characters in Science fiction or fantasy books. Ship who sang series yes, any thoughts? ObMisty: SWarning Ulrich is busy warning karal that he may never manage a long term love type relationship and then at the end of SBreaking there he is in exactly that relationship. I wondered if she wrote SWarning and 4 and 20 Blackbirds at the same time, since theres a very similar theme in there. ---------------------- Elizabeth Hoffman E.G.Hoffman-+AT+-soton.ac.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:40:19 -0800 (PST) From: "Quietfire k'T'more" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Censorship Message-ID: <19990223194019.22243.rocketmail-+AT+-web510.yahoomail.com> Speeking for censoring, if there is anyone on this list who knows of a high school that has censored liturature from it's library, not allowed students to wear certain clothing (not including uniforms), or ANY other sort of censorship (not allowing South Park themed clothing, etc.) please let me know. Write to Davin_paper-+AT+-yahoo.com Thanks Davin _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free -+AT+-yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 02:57:12 -0400 From: ikunkle-+AT+-andover.edu (Izzy Kunkle) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: RE: braid Message-ID: L. J. Thompson wrote... >but I >personally feel that they are going to run into that at some point and that >middle school is as good of a time as any to start thinking about that sort >of thing. (shaych characters). I quite agree. Maybe if some of the people I had gone to middle school with (and, sad to say in the school I go to, but true) some of those I have classes with now had read Misty or similar authors earlier in their lives, they would not now be such narrowminded gits. (Of course, these are people who, and I quote, 'don't see the point of reading', so they're gits anyhow. Feh. If not for maybe twenty people, I would be quite pleased to see Southern CA fall into the sea.) >My parents are just happy that I'm reading, but I've had many, >many teachers tell me that I have "so much potential" and that I need to >start reading "real books" or 'good literature." B Feh, again. I have had people tell me this and get a very scornful look in reply. The worst offender was a Soc Sci (alias Note-taking 101, alias The Ninth Circle of Hell) teacher who, after she criticized me for reading H.P. Lovecraft and I pointed out that to many people, this /was/ classic literature, had the nerve to yank the book away and read a passage aloud in mocking tones. I sat and entertained reassuring thoughts of blood and violence. Quietfire wrote: >He has even gone so far at times to have bought me copies of Sweet Valley >High books! Oh, gag. This would be the point at which I either disowned or killed the man. Sweet Valley High is the most useless, fetid pile of horse droppings imaginable. On the subject of censorship: Personally, I agree with whoever it was who first said that kids will censor themselves until they are ready to deal with stuff. I also don't think that sexual content is something that needs to be hidden from kids-it's a natural part of life, and it's better to learn about intimate relationships from something like Misty's books, where there's usually mutual respect and pleasure involved /but/ where there doesn't need to be a True And Undying Love. Better that than any of the alternatives, such as dirty jokes and Married with Children or, on the other end of the spectrum, romance novels. (Actually the one thing my mom tried to prevent me from reading, with the cause that 'love doesn't really happen like that'. Better than most reasons.) My parents, IIRC, did prevent me from watching R-rated movies or such, but they had a point there. And I, too, used to read during school-I went to the Middle School of the Brain-Dead and, to be modest about it, got the concept pretty much fifteen to twenty minutes before everyone else did. (Teacher: "You're supposed to write a three-paragraph paper about a family tradition. It's due Friday." Football Guy (or Cheerleader Babe): "Ummm, what's a paragraph?" At this point, I would sigh and pull out a book. This is only slightly exaggerated, scarily enough.) Then I came to my current school and realized I'd flunk out if I kept doing that. Zodiac: I am technically a Libra. Gave up on astrology when I read somewhere that, according to my sign, I am supposed to be peaceful, kind, and most at ease in the company of others. (Whereas I have at least two days a week where I go around muttering 'get away from me or I'll slit your throat'.) Shudders in horror at Ellen Fluharty. Your dad /trashed/ your books? Like, literally destroyed them? Ugh. I'd move out. (I had problems with the end of Born to Run; I think Tania should have moved into the shelter, refused to see her parents, become a hugely successful person, and gone back when she was eighteen or so just to say 'You screwed up my life, I will hate you for the rest of said life, and this is the last time you will ever speak to me again. Go to hell, you bastards'.) Why people think that sci-fi/fantasy are worthless? Well, to be perfectly judgemental and insensitive and obnoxious about it (which I like being), they're gits. Although I'll admit that some of the cover art does not help. (Listen, all ye Vallejo wannabes-chain-mail bikinis are /not/ good protection and are /damned/ uncomfortable, there is no woman on earth who can fight in spiked heels, and long, flowing hair serves as a very nice handle. Your enemy grabs it, yanks your head back, and you've got a nicely slit throat. Now that I've ranted, moving along...) And may I add that seeing people blame books/TV for murders or suicides makes me grit my teeth and want to smack several people? (Listen, buddy, half the professional athletes in the world abuse their wives or girlfriends, take disgusting amounts of drugs, and think that raping women and punching photographers is a fun Saturday night, and I don't see you howling and pulling your kids out of Little League...) Sorry that this was so long, folks. I felt very rant-y. Isabel C. Kunkle Lower at Phillips Academy Andover Licensed Sarcastic Person and Card-Carrying Bitch "A pedestal is as much a prison as any small space." --Gloria Steinem ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:58:03 PST From: "Kristy Lyseng" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: just about anything Message-ID: <19990223195803.2170.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> Heyla! First of all, I have to say, "I'm sorry" to L.J. Thompson. I guess I really wasn't watching closely to what I was reading. (That happens sometimes; it's rather amazing, sometimes I skip paragraphs! It's a problem I have.) Hmm. I'm surprised! So many of you like Slayers! Excellent. Now, has anyone ever heard of the Lodoss Wars? The previous weeks for Anime night this month, my best friends and I have been watching the videos. We found six episodes And last weekend we watched the Legend of Crystania (I hope I got that right). They're not bad. If anyone likes a dungeon and dragon type thing animated, then this will just cry out you! Oh, and watch out for men in long black hair! Somebody was reading the Firebird. I have to say that that book is one of the best written I have ever read from Misty! The only thing I found confusing was that he suddenly was able to talk to the nightingale and the fox when he said that he couldn't understand the language of beasts anymore. It was slightly confusing, but still a good book. To Karen Baker: Yeah, I know Sisko's team "lost" but I just meant that they "won" their game in Quark's Place when the Vulcan came to rub Sisko's face in his victory. I hope I didn't lose you there. Hey, has anyone ever heard anything from Yvonne? I haven't read anything by her for the last couple of days or Lynn Walker. :Kristy departs in a flash that is mysteriously similar to some of Q's dramatic exits in StarTrek: The Next Generation. The heard of sheep she was using for a couch disperse to several other newbies who need a comfy chair. "Chocoalte sheep to all!" Love, Light and Laughter, Kristy of the real world, Noema of the Fallen Fyre, Starsong the Maximal, Silverstorm the Tanner and her newest creation: Shado the High Elf. "Oh, source of all power Light which burns beyond Crimson Flame Let thy power gather within my hand! FireBall!"--Lina Inverse, the Slayers :Kristy appears again in a flash and winks at Starshdaow before disappearing again. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:20:41 PST From: "Li'nia Stormdancer" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Query.... Message-ID: <19990223202042.12984.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> Heyla List-Sibs!! I have two questions. (I'm leaving the "appropriate reading age" discussion alone from now on; I'm sure you're all sick of my two-cents worth! *g*) I know I've read somewhere that there's a story of how Alberich was Chosen and his earlier life. Could someone let me know if I'm remembering correctly, or do I have a short in my brain functions again? Also, I've been wondering how you can become a deity (or "Arm of.." or "Hand of..." a deity). Weren't there some sort of guidelines for that here on the MLML? Thank you! Camo-colored sheep to all!!! Wind to thy wings! Stormdance k'T'more and Kuus aka =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Li'nia Stormdancer, Peon to the Powers That Be, =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Devotee to the Order of Unsung Heroes =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 16:35:51 -0800 (PST) From: Lisa Holcomb To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: fantacy reading. Message-ID: <19990224003551.10139.rocketmail-+AT+-web512.mail.yahoo.com> ---Autumnleaf wrote: It's similar to > traveling: you get to know other people, their opinions and their way of living. > That's one of the reasons why I don't restrict my reading to fantasy only. If a > book sounds interesting I will pick it up. If it bores me stiff and doesn't > improve after the next two chapters I'll put it down again. > ***hear hear! I agree wholeheartedly...and thanks for stating the reason that way...now i know how to describe to others who don't understand the whole fantasy thing as well... (and i do the same with other books as well...) > The Big Reading Debate: > What I wanted to say: my mom encouraged us to read. She didn't care what we read > as long as we did so. ***once again, same here. my mom not only encouraged, but she read to us until we were old enough to read for ourselves/got too ancy to sit still. and she read us the good stuff too: Tolkein, L'Engle, etc... With a mischievous grin he conjurs his > notorious non-cold non-wet snow into the box. He then approaches the Newbie > Lisa. "Heyla, welcome to our Madness, I mean, the Misty List. > This said, he dumps the whole soap-box full of snow over Lisas head and > vanishes.* ***"waitwaitwait!!! thank you...i enjoy that kind of snow...where can i find some of my own?" > Oh yes, BTW, I found the Storm books quite interesting after I got into them. > All the technical things and inventions! I loved how Misty explained the way > things worked. But then, I'm a technology freak. ***::lisa's ears perk up:: "technology? oooh...i better read more!!!" ::bouncebounce:: ::lisa runs off to borrow the storm books once more:: == Lisa Holcomb awamiba-+AT+-yahoo.com http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Arc/5894 "People who live in reality have no imagination." _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free -+AT+-yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 20:43:21 -0500 From: Greg Wooledge To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Storm books/fantacy reading Message-ID: <19990223204321.D10090-+AT+-phoenix.local> Obsidian (odessius-+AT+-softhome.net) wrote: > Speaking of the fantasy genre, does anybody hate the way everyone clutters > the fantasy genre with the scifi genre? I hate that. Science fiction is simply a special case of fantasy. I've never heard a satisfactory definition of either, but the best I can come up with at the moment is this: "Fantasy" is fiction which takes place in a world which is not ours. "Science fiction" is fantasy in which the other world deviates from ours only in ways which can be explained by scientific phenomena. As a dumb example, consider two similar stories in which a man (or woman) creates an artificial being. If the construct is crafted from printed circuit boards and powered by electricity, we'd call it a robot and we'd consider this a science fiction story. If the construct is crafted from clay and powered by words holy written on paper and inserted into the being's head, we'd call it a golem and we'd consider this a fantasy story (or a myth). The difference in this case is that in the second story, there are no plausible scientific explanations for how the holy words give the semblance of life to the construct. But our science offers laws and theories which make the first story plausible, even if the actual implementation is beyond our current technological capabilities. It's also mandatory at this point to remind everyone of Arthur C. Clarke's famous saying: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." Kenneth Allen Hyde (kenny-+AT+-UDel.Edu) wrote: > In Sci-Fi, the differences in the secondary > world are predicated on technological differences, while in Fant-Fi, the > differences are predicated in non-technological differences. I've considered this definition, but I've found it to be too restrictive for science fiction (and possibly for fantasy as well). There are a number of SF works that are predicated on sociological differences, rather than technological ones. (Many of them also feature technological differences, but those are often incidental to the main theme.) Unfortunately, the only example of this I can think of right now is a short story by Heinlein, the name of which I cannot remember. There are also a number of works which blur the line between fantasy and SF. The most famous is probably Anne McCaffrey's "Pern" series; others include Piers Anthony's "Apprentice Adept" series and Marion Zimmer Bradley's "Darkover". > There is very good Fant-Fi, but there is also very > good Sci-Fi. And there are truly bad examples of both genres. Yes, indeed. :-) ObMisty: Misty herself has written in MZB's "Darkover" world. She and MZB cowrote "Return to Darkover" (or something like that, if that's not the exact title). I'd say that this book in particular does an excellent job of straddling the line between SF and fantasy. There's one scene in particular that I remember -- a Darkovan telepath becomes trapped (mentally) inside a computer, and the sysadmin has to pry her out. It was a bit silly, but fun. ;-) -- Greg Wooledge | Distributed.NET http://www.distributed.net/ wooledge-+AT+-kellnet.com | because a CPU is a terrible thing to waste. http://www.kellnet.com/wooledge/ | ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 19:52:29 PST From: "Sharry Adams" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 1884 Message-ID: <19990224035230.28159.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> Ellen shena Liha'irden wrote: When I was younger, my parents did try to censor my reading. I'll never forget being a freshman in high school and watching my father trash my copies of The Hobbit and my Lord of The Rings trilogy. ------ That's really sad! The high school I graduated from requires it's freshmen to read The Hobbit as part of their English class! (I was quite upset that they started that right after my freshman year. We had to read A Seprate Peace instead!) My mom didn't particuarly like the book (she helped my sister study it), but she never tried to stop us from reading it. But my reading was sensored when I was younger to a certain extent. My mom didn't care for my horror phase. I started reading Christopher Pike in 6th grade. What I think is really sad about that is that my mom had never read any of his books. She just forbade me to read them because she had "heard things." But, of course that didn't stop me! *L* Also, when I was in the 3rd grade, I read "Are You Their God, It's Me Margret" by Judy Blume. I was almost through with it, when my teacher noticed me reading it, and made me bring it back to the school library. She said that only 6th & 7th graders were allowed to read that book. (It has stuff in it about a girl's "coming of age." All of which I already knew about anyways!) About sexual content of books, it's my opinion that if a child is too young for it, it won't bother them, and if they're the right age, they'll be adult about it. The problem occurs when they're in that akward in-the-middle stage when they haven't formed their own opinions about sexuality & morality yet. (I read Anne Rice when I was in that stage, and it gave me some ideas that I would have been better off not knowing about for a couple more years.) Ok, there's my rant! :) --Lovesinger (formerly, Nightsong) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 23:10:38 -0800 From: Obsidian To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Censorship Message-ID: <36D3A5ED.ABF8C22F-+AT+-softhome.net> About the censorship on books. I believe if the child is mature enough to read an adult book, he/she should read it. Now personally, I've read highly mature books at, what people consider, a young age, and personally, I never found anything wrong in it. It's not like I changed or anything. I have to admit, that when I found out Firesong was shaych I was a bit shocked, but for some reason I took it as if it was funny for no particular reason. As for the violence and sexual material, I never found anything wrong in that either. So, IMHO, I believe it all depends on the child and how mature he/she is. On to other things, I'm almost finished with Tiger Buring Bright. I have to admit it didn't grab me at the first few chapters, but more towards the middle of the book it starts to get interesting. I've also noticed a perculiar thing. It seems as if Andre Norton is collaborating the grandmother, while Bradley is doing the queen and Misty is doing the princess. Very strange. I also got Owlsight, Silver Gryphon, and Black Gryphon (all of which I have not read) at my next door library. It looks like I'm on a role:) Obsidian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 02:44:57 -0500 From: Katrina C Stayduhar To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Email address Message-ID: <19990224.025122.-28291.0.Kaytdoo-+AT+-juno.com> I need to change my email address with this listserver and am not sure how to go about it. Can anyone help me out? ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 06:35:33 -0500 (EST) From: AERDEN-+AT+-delphi.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: age/disaproval of fantasy Message-ID: <01J8422WFF2A9C9XVL-+AT+-delphi.com> On 23-FEB-1999 07:11:48.3 mercedes-lackey said to AERDEN me>Too true. I think that children should start being told about shaych me>people [truth not stereotype] around middle school [thats around age me>12 isn't it? ] I wish I had had some discussion about it in my me>secondary school [UK starts age 12]. Then maybe I would not have felt me>so worthless for so many years and hid the fact that I am shaych until me>I was 23. Any other shaych people wish they had read Misty earlier me>than they did? I don't remember how old I was before I even _heard_ of homosexuality. I might have been a junior or senior in high school. I never had any gay relatives until I married, and the subject just never came up until AIDS became prominent in the news and was associated with the gay population. me>"just because its old doesn't mean its good." My point being that me>just because something was written in Elizabethan times or in the 19th me>Century etc and has been classed as having a high intelectual value me>does not mean it is better than things that the "masses" read. That is me>all this prejudice is, people who are academics who believe there is me>high culture and low culture. The silly thing about their attitude is that Dickens and Shakespeare _wrote_ for the masses. They were trying to entertain people and make money. They weren't writing for university students or intelligentsia. You would think that English professors would remember this. ::sigh:: Anything that is written for mass me>consumption can not in any way have any literary value. Sorry that I me>have gone on but after 3 years of literary theory and critisicm I got me>so sick of this view point. That is why in my final year I wrote an me>entire unit of work based on fantasy literature and in particular me>Misty. Chantal ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 06:35:54 -0500 (EST) From: AERDEN-+AT+-delphi.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Blindness in Misty's books Message-ID: <01J8423CHL7O9C9XVL-+AT+-delphi.com> On 23-FEB-1999 13:24:11.0 mercedes-lackey said to AERDEN me>lady g aka rainstar / Gisela Vazquez said me>> Can you get access to Audio books? I'm totally blind and me>until recently that's the only way I've been able to read them. Now me>there's this machine, (that I've finally got installed at me>school,) and what it does is convert the text into synthetic me>speech. You have a Kurzweil reader at your school? Cool! I didn't see one of those until I went to college. They're neat. to me, the voice sounds like a Scottish man with a cold. me>I wondered how well written Misty's blind characters were. Theres me>Karal who becomes blind at the end of Storm Breaking, but he has me>Altra's eyes to literally look through. Theres the miner in Sword of me>Ice but if I remember rightly she lost her legs in the same accident. I liked that miner a lot. me>can come under the disability heading. There was a bunch of kids me>discussing the how few disabled people there were in childrens books me>that they could relate to. I couldn't really come up with many me>non-token characters in Science fiction or fantasy books. Ship who me>sang series yes, any thoughts? I haven't seen too many with handicapped characters. I do own a fantasy novel by a deaf author. Her characters weren't deaf, but they did have a VERY rigid caste system. If a beggar wanted to talk to a noble, the beggar had to start a Conversation Chain. That was pretty neat. Chantal ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 12:06:28 GMT From: "Kalen [One In Black]" <95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk> To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Alberich/Query..../books Message-ID: <10552F060A75-+AT+-alnilam.mmu.ac.uk> > From: "Li'nia Stormdancer" > I know I've read somewhere that there's a story of how > Alberich was Chosen and his earlier life. I believe it is in Horsefantastic, I have it somewhere but have moved 3 times since then so it could be anywhere. Katrina C Stayduhar > I need to change my email address with this listserver and am not > sure how to go about it. Can anyone help me out? Mail to listproc and sign off the list with current addy and then log back on with new addy. Well thats the way I did it anyway. > Kalen wrote: (BTW, I hope you're feeling a bit better) {Yes I am thanx. I start my new job on monday and hope to get tickets to see Vonda Shepard here in about a month or so.} >> That is all this prejudice is, >>people who are academics who believe there is high culture and low >>culture. > Yeah, those people gave me zero points for one question of my oral > exams. They wanted to know the difference between modern English and > modern American writers...... [edit] I was > then told that modern writers lived and worked during the 50s to 70s > and that we were discussing literature not *putting on a disgusted > face* mass market production. In this instance the were talking about Modernism, you know like Romanticism, Classicism, Post Modernism, etc. They didn't mean books written in the Contemporary period ie now. As for the pulling of faces with regard to the mass market, people like that are arrogant and elitist. T.S.Elliot did exactly the same thing, if it was for the "great unwashed" then it had no value. These people do not even take the time to read things before they denounce them. I must admit that I had the reverse view point for a while. During my academic career [and I'm begining to think it might become one ] I had to read books that I dismissed and didn't think I'd enjoy, well I loved Color Purple and Wild Swans. A think which surprised me beyond belief. When I wrote my units on fantasy literature I did get a lot of grief about them, I seriously considered giving my tutor a reading list but thought I'd better not push my luck. Okay I've gone on enough. ********************************************************************** Never in the field of education have so many been so demotivated by so few!!! Kalen [OIB] 95662014-+AT+-mmu.ac.uk, uthro-+AT+-hotmail.com http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Rapids/7701/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 12:55:08 +0100 From: Autumnleaf-+AT+-t-online.de (Autumnleaf) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Blindness in Misty's books Message-ID: Heyla all, Elizabeth Hoffman wrote: > There was a bunch of kids > discussing the how few disabled people there were in childrens books > that they could relate to. I couldn't really come up with many > non-token characters in Science fiction or fantasy books. Ship who > sang series yes, any thoughts? There is "To the Dark Tower" by Victor Kelleher where a group of disabled kids has to fullfil a task. They all had an accident during work and accomplish their quest in a dream world. Very dark world but well written and exciting. The ending was absolutely unexpected to me. Two other books I remember off-hand are by Rosemary Sutcliff. She doesn't write fantasy but adventure stories in historical setting, mostly Roman and Pre-Roman Britain. The books are: "Warrior Scarlet" where a boy with a crippled arm learns to use his other hand and becomes a warrior in the end. "The Mark of the Horse Lord". The hero looks like a blinded heir to the post of clan chief and takes over the role of his look-a-like. Lin'ia Stormdancer wrote: >I know I've read somewhere that there's a story of how >Alberich was Chosen and his earlier life. Could someone let me know if >I'm remembering correctly, or do I have a short in my brain functions >again? No, you are correct. It's "Stolen SIlver" and appeared in Horse Fantastic (1991), edited by Martin Greenberg. BTW, a list of Misty's works including short stories and where they appeared can be found under: http://www.herald.co.uk/local_info/lackey_faq/lackey_faq.3.html Lisa wrote: > ***"waitwaitwait!!! thank you...i enjoy that kind of snow...where >can i find some of my own?" Uhm, Torell made it himself. *shrugs* He's my familiar (spelling?) and has some magical abilities that he only uses for jests and mischieve. *Torell sneaks up from behind and dumps another soap-box of non-wet snow on Lisa. "Use some of this", he says with a broad smile, "one of your pockets will never be empty of it." * Ooops, did I have any ObMisty? I guess not. So, let's think of one. *brain cells smoking* All I can think of is sheep but not within a Misty context. *arrgh* Ah, yes: Did anyone read the Merovingen Night anthologies? Misty contributed some short stories to them. I own two books out of seven (I think) but some of the other authors make me shirk back from reading them. Any help? Snow-ball sheep to my list-sibs Shantaya Autumnleaf and Torell, her Jester "A bar of chocolate a day keeps depression away" (Me) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 06:35:41 -0600 From: "Phoenix, Guardian of Harmony" To: Subject: Re: age/disaproval of fantasy Message-ID: <01be5ff2$309ef240$670c9ace-+AT+-default> -----Original Message----- From: AERDEN-+AT+-delphi.com To: tzarius-+AT+-ecsis.net Date: Wednesday, February 24, 1999 6:17 AM Subject: age/disaproval of fantasy >On 23-FEB-1999 07:11:48.3 mercedes-lackey said to AERDEN > me>Too true. I think that children should start being told about shaych > me>people [truth not stereotype] around middle school [thats around age > me>12 isn't it? ] I wish I had had some discussion about it in my > me>secondary school [UK starts age 12]. Then maybe I would not have felt > me>so worthless for so many years and hid the fact that I am shaych until > me>I was 23. Any other shaych people wish they had read Misty earlier > me>than they did? > >I don't remember how old I was before I even _heard_ of homosexuality. I >might have been a junior or senior in high school. I never had any gay >relatives until I married, and the subject just never came up until AIDS >became prominent in the news and was associated with the gay population. Personally, I didn't even know what homosexuality was... well, I'd heard RUMORS, until I READ MPromise. Do you know how much of a welcome relief flooded over me when I read that and learned it DID exist, and that I wasn't crazy? I never had a clue that I wasn't abnormal, etc. but... That's how it goes. And I live very close to the largest city in my state, not that Memphis is by any means the largest in the country, cause it most certainly is not. But anyway, I ramble... it's morning. Fireheart k'Vala God of New Homes Owner of the Eternal Contact Paper Giver of the Perpetual Housewarming Gift ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 06:41:23 PST From: "Jennifer M. Shultz" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 1885 Message-ID: <19990224144126.3924.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> Heyla! It appears that my copy/paste commands and my "add original text" buttons aren't working. So, though I delurk, I do so without quotes. On sheep: Have we covered Elspeth's formal investiture as heir? When Dirk and Kris make a game out of supplying her with things to tell her courtiers as they pledge their alliegance? One of them, I believe Kris, wins because he thought of the sheep first. Whoevers collecting sheep references, it's in AFall, first three chapters. E-mail me off-list, and I'll find the page for you. Don't have my books now. On Censorship/age appropriate reading: I didn't pick up a Misty book until I was a Junior in Highschool. (Umm, the year before I graduated, if you aren't familiar with the American School system) I wish I'd picked it up earlier, it would have saved me a few hours of trouble when teachers caught me reading books they did not consider "appropriate." I really have no prolem with letting my children, when and if I have some, read anything I have on my shelves. I was allowed to read whatever I wanted, whenever I wanted. My parents attitude was that if I wasn't ready, I'd put it down. Most of the time they were right. I can only recall one series that I was uncomfortable reading the whole thing that I did not set aside until later. And then I skipped pages (the story was engrossing. To bad I can't remember it . . .) However, other peoples children are forbidden to touch my bookshelves without me (I had a little girl, about eight, get a hold of one of my Anne Rice books, once. She had the reading abilities to read it, but it gave her nightmares for about a year. Hence, the RULE.) I also have a thought on age appropriateness. For the Judeo-Christians out there (or those who have read the Judeo-Chistian Bible), how many of you would let your children read it, assuming they could? It's got a few harsher truths in it than I have ever seen in any other book. Read through some of the Old Testament laws, especially (eye for an eye?). On Fantasy/SciFi: I have to agree with the publishers and book-sellers that they are pretty much the same. And if not, then very close. Anne McCaffrey illustrates this, as does Star Trek. Dragons created by a space going people, races of beings that can read minds? Even some of Misty's stuff has a bit of SciFi hints. The "making" or breeding of bondbirds and warsteeds, or the artificers in the Storms books are good examples. On gaming: I know misty's stuff can't be used in games, and I respect that, but I was curious as to how many, if any of us, are involved in MUDs, Mushes, Muxes, Moos or RPGs in other authors worlds? OBMisty(s): A couple of questions and comments, since I've been lurking way too long. First, has anyone here ever wanted to see a Companion's view in a story? One told through the Companion, and not the Herald? I think that would be interesting. Also, If Tarma were to have died before she and Kethry were able to raise the Clan Banner again, would the clan have died too, or would Kethry be allowed to raise the banner by herself? The scene in Oathbreakers, ith Tarma, Roald, his Companion, and the Warrior, did that mean that Tarma was "Chosen" as Roald was, or that Roald was "Chosen" as Tarma was? (In other words, was Misty trying to imply that a God/Goddess was involved in the Companion's Choice?) The fact that the Monarchs Own Companion lives after them, when most Companions don't. does that mean that the bond isn't as strong, or just that he is stronger than most Companions? Als, what's an unbonded choosing supposed to mean? I'd guess that's it, this is already way too long. Wind to they wings, listsibs! Jennifer Who is thinking of trying to find a usename. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1886 **********************************