MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1887 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) science-fiction and fantasy by "Kristy Lyseng" 2) Re: Blindness in Misty's books by Gisela Vazquez 3) Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 1886 by Ellen K Fluharty 4) censored! and more... by "Nelson Greenslade" 5) Re: censored! and more... by ScismGenie-+AT+-aol.com 6) Resurfacing by Yvonne 7) Bardic Voices by SachiAiko-+AT+-aol.com 8) blindness/censorship by "Shadow Wolf" 9) Re: censored! and more... by "toni kelly" 10) Re: censored! and more... by Lisa Holcomb ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 10:10:20 PST From: "Kristy Lyseng" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: science-fiction and fantasy Message-ID: <19990224181021.3180.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> Heyla! Hmm. I see that the censorship reading is still going strong. Great! You know, I've never really met so many people that read Sci-Fi and Fantasy as much as you guys and I do. It's wonderful! Speaking of science fiction, I just wanted to say a few things about science-fiction shows and why people watch them. I think that my favorite science-fiction show (or I should say series) in this world has to be Star Trek. For many of you who groan and gripe about how boring the show is, here is an explanation about why so many people watch them. For many years, Star Trek has been one of my closest companions. I was blown away with the idea of human beings co-existing with alien races searching the stars with the hearts of exporers and bold adventurers. But it has come to my attention that Star Trek is not merely a show for entertainment, it teaches morals and talks about subjects that we deal with today only set in a future world, such as human curiosity. I think that the best example for this would be Data, the only living android in the Milky Way galaxy. Data has a quest of his own that is different from the others on the galaxy class starship, the Enterprise. His quest is to discover what it is like to be human. He wants to understand emotions because he is incapable of having his own. Data has to deal with people who are so unlike him. He is the outcast like so many of us are. I think what Data teaches us is what it is like to BE human. And there are many other examples as well like human curiosty, the loss of innocence, war, family ties, all of these examples exist within the show and take on a whole new attitude of their own when other people, whom we can relate too, act them out. So, in conclusion, science-fiction shows revolve around morals and subjects subtly implanted in the shows we watch to teach us, aside from entertaining us. :Kristy leaps off the soapbox and lands on a flock of sheep. (If there's one could thing about them, they provide comfortable furnishing) Whew! That was quite a mouthfull and I know it doesn't really relate to what we're talking about, but if science-fiction and fantasy books teach us about our own morality and morals, then so do science-fiction (and fantasy) shows and people shouldn't descriminate or censor those ones as well. Love, Light and Laughter, Kristy from the world of Reality, Noema the Fallen Fyre, Starsong the Maximal, Silverstorm the tanner, and my newest persona which I will be going on as from now on, Shado the High Elf. "Oh, source of all power Light which burns beyond Crimson Flame Let thy power gather within my hand! Fire Ball!"--Lina Inverse, Slayers ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 13:41:21 -0500 (EST) From: Gisela Vazquez To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Blindness in Misty's books Message-ID: I've taken a day off because my teacher is just reviewing a test that I got a 103 on and the class is at 9 in the morning. I also have tuns of stuff to do and am getting it done, sort of. Well, just wanted to put my own .02 in. Someone asked, lost who, sorry! is there a particular reason you read misty (plotth a certain character? descriptive passages?) I love her characterization. I like knowing what a character's thinking, feeling. She also is very discriptive yet it usually doesn't hamper her plot development. elizabeth hoffman asked: i wondered how well written misty's blind characters were. theres karal who becomes blind at the end of storm breaking but he has altra's eyes to literally look through. theres the miner in sword of ice but if i remember rightly she lost her legs in the same accident. I've never read Sword of Ice. I saw it in the library, or barns and noble, can't remember which, but didn't get it. I probably wouldn't get any of her books just because I can't open them and read them but I can and have recently checked some out. of the library to scan them and I'll get that one if I see it again. Karal doesn't count as a blind character because he can look through Altra's eyes and because it happened at the end so there was no time to develop any changes to his character or perseptions of things. He wasn't portraied at all as a blind character and that's something I'd like to see Misty explore. Can you Imagine a blind Herald? Alberich would really have to device one hell of a training program and there's always the companion that can help. I think it could be done. It would make for one of her worse child hoods because a blind person in a midevil sort of setting, lets face it, can't do much with out training and unless the person was in haven it would be difficult to come buy because most people out there are farmers and such. It goes with most other physically chalenged people and let's not start on emotionally chalenged indeviduals. I'm going to stop before I start lecturing and I can't afford to do that because I have to finish all the work I promiced myself I'd finish but before I go one more little thing. aerdon asked you have a kurzweil reader at your school? coolthe i didn't see one of those until i went to college. they're neat. to me the voice sounds like a scottish man with a cold. Do you know what speech it uses? I didn't see one until my senior year in high school and have missed it until now. You can't imagine the battle royal I had to go through to get it installed and I'm almost done at this school too. I've just got a miniterm left. They make my life sooo much easier. I'm going for real.! zhai'helleva, rainstar ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:43:49 -0500 From: Ellen K Fluharty To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 1886 Message-ID: <19990224.164349.-4036353.0.efluharty-+AT+-juno.com> I once read a quote (can't remember who made it) that said: Horror stories were weird stories for normal people and Science Fiction stories were weird stories for weird people. So, perhaps the best way to say it would be (we are going to change "weird" to "imaginative") Science Fiction stories are for imaginative people who are technologically inclined, and Fantasy stories are for imaginative people who are non-tech inclined. But personally, I love both. I read mostly fantasy, but have gotten into a few sci-fi novels...(I love Greg Bear for instance! and Heinlein, despite his cro-magnon attitude towards women) I believe that sci-fi and fantasy do belong together on the shelves, it's just the same stuff with different settings.... a dragon, or a mutated crop-picker, what's the difference? Here's an obMisty for you all: Does anyone know what kind of books Misty likes to read? (besides her contemporaries, when she has the time) Peace, Ellen shena Liha'irden Lady in Green Keeper of Ingrid, the boogie woogie beanie lamb (who admits she was part of the pillow of sheep) WV Spy for CfWD She'endra to Laurel shena Dester'tale ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 18:01:02 -0400 From: "Nelson Greenslade" To: "Misty" Subject: censored! and more... Message-ID: <039e01be6053$a375a1e0$LocalHost-+AT+-epzfbrwg> Well, I'm sure everyone is probably starting to get a little tired of this topic, but I wanted to through my two cents into the brain-pool. (How much change have we got now? Enough to spring for a veg. pizza?) I don't have all the answers. I can't tell you the best way to raise a kid. However, since I'm 16 (and also hanging onto childhood with tooth and nail), I'm probably close enough to "child" to tell you that I was ready for Misty when I first read her. Trust me, we'd owned the books for a few years, and I'd never really been interested in them, until one day I just picked one and started reading (mid-trilogy of course. *sigh* I was a chapter into the 2nd Winds book before realised the other one before me had "1st of a trilogy" on the cover.) LHM was my first real introduction to homosexuality. Naive little innocent that I was, I had heard about it around the edges, but never actually figured out the whole. Then again, people have had to explain dirty jokes to me. Like that one about the leprechaun.... *achem* Anyway. I guess you could say I've always known what I liked. We have all the Dune books right here, but I don't feel ready to read them yet. *shrugs* Not that I was the only one to pick my reading material, mind you. Other people buy books for me, and my school library is rather limited. When I was 11, I could read a Nancy Drew in half an hour, so my mother decided to move me onto something more challenging: bigger words, more mature situations, subtler plots. Romance novels, actually. And, hey, even then I knew what I liked. I loved one that had, um, 3 kisses, and I hated the one with the marguaritas, saxophone and b-+AT+-$%-+AT+-#& "hero". *black muttering*. If a kid doesn't like or understand a book, they probably won't fnish reading it. Hmmm. Well, now that I've taken the opportunity to talk about myself, I'll move on. "Sweet Valley" anything are not mysteries, they're ("Drek." shush, Hiei!) teen drama. (IMHO) Quietfire, did you like The Oathbound? If you did, then maybe you aren't as adverse to mysteries as you think... <> It's more like if you read fantasy, you can deal with unreality. Some people don't like this genre because they just can't suspend their disbelief... no imagination. Others just don't like it. It happens. <> *gets down on knees and thanks whoever's listening that hers took the time to point that out to the class* <> No, I just have a hard time getting to them when I have ~money~. *scowls* Tell ya what, you hop on over here to Moncton and visit Chapters, and I'll go over to my favorite Asian food grocery store in Halifax. (Mmmm. Ultraman pocky...) Sound like a fair trade? <> Ooohh! Ooooh! Yum!!!! <> *snorts* It's amazing how off-base some of this stuff can be. I'm the same, although I could probably get away with putting it down to puberty. Actually, people try to piss me off. Really. I could write a book. Which reminds me of something I meant to ask. Does anyone think that there's something like horoscopes on Velgarth? What are the names of the month? What signs do you think some of the characters might be? Elsa Knight of Fluff, One In Black, Member of the Order of Drifting Ashes, OoUH Champion of Jonne, Moonbeam, Iceshadow, and Jaysen, and caller of monsters. "World Peace Thru Sex-Foo(tm)" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 20:55:11 EST From: ScismGenie-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: censored! and more... Message-ID: <57219aa.36d4ad7f-+AT+-aol.com> This has been a very interesting discussion. and as the "BlackSheep" (about 300) follow my lead, I keep finding sheep references in the postings that I don't recall from the books. I admit I haven't read all of them yet, I "broke" into SF/Fantasy Many years ago, with a Andre Norton book (catspaw) when it was hot off the presses. And it seems to me that even as a small child of 7 or 8 it was fantasy that I read, and I was a FAST reader. The age grouped books at the library couldn't keep me occupied. I progressed through Ms. Norton's books into the Bradley books, and after a while when the subtly went into a homosexuality theme, I put them down. Getting through my Hienlien stage was also difficult for me because of my homosexuality aversion. I can truthfully point out that if the book is uncomfortable, it will be put down. I admit it may not be socially correct, and I have no problems with someone else's sexuality, but I am repulsed by homosexuality. It is the way I have always felt, probably based on the time when as a small child I was homosexually raped. This probably accounts for my feelings on the subject. Jeff Scism, IBSSG ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 19:30:15 -0800 From: Yvonne To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Resurfacing Message-ID: <36D4C3C7.2ED0-+AT+-planet.eon.net> Heyla!! *Yvonne swims out from underneath a pile of social homework, bio labs, and work scheduals* Phew! Been a mite bit buisy recently so I slipped into Lurker mode. ;P Well, I've got a lot to catch up on! On Censorship: I never really had that problem at home - my Dad read Tolkin to me before I was able to read it to myself, which kind of got me hooked. Before I read animal books - especially horse books, which led me to picking up Arrows of the Queen when I was 11 or 12. I ADORED it - at that age I was very like Talia - quiet, painfully shy, and picked on. (Gawd, now look what I've become!! I've been horribly mutated!! Aaarrrgg! Flee, flee!) (Ok, hopefully now that that little bit of insanity is over with I can continue writing in a normal way.) (Or not.) School was different - people wondered why I didn't read ... oh, whatever kids that age read at that time, and wondered why I read, period. My teachers would take my books away all the time becasue I read in class - I still hold a grudge against my grade 6 teachers for that. On Age to begin Misty: Ack - hard one there. I guess it would depend on maturity level. My brother, for example, is 10, and there is NO way that he's ready to read Misty. Talia wouldn't intrest him, Vanyel would probibly challenge him too much, and Elspeth & crew are prolly a little much for him right now. I've suggested books to him before, tho. He really liked Tailchaser's Song by Tad Williams, but got bored of the Last Unicorn. *sniff* No taste. On Re-Reading Books: Heck, yes!! All the time. I find that otherwise I just don't get enough reading material, and then my head explodes. *G* As for what I like to re-read, well, my fav. book of all time is the Last Unicorn, but I also like to re-read Humility Garden by Felicity Savage, Guardian's Key by ... dang, can't remember who. (It's a nice light read. :)) For Misty, I seem to re-read Kero & T&K more than the others. My other books, while I re-read them lots, just don't get as picked up and thumbed through as often. :) On Zodiac Stuff: I'm a Capricorn. On the 'right' side of traits, I'm pig-headed and stubborn, I'm (relativly) down to earth, and I like the color brown. *G* On the 'wrong' side of the traits, I am NOT a work-o-holic, I don't keep at things until they are done, and I am not usually too sucessful, wanting instead to play around with various art supplies and at my computer. :) Hey Kristy - yep - still around!! And still alive after recieving my diploma marks!! *shocked silence* Just wait until I get my proofs back from my grad pics ... Jennifer asked how many of us are involved in various gaming things: Well, I'm a PbEM free-form RPG-a-holic!! At the moment I have ... *thinks* ... well, LOTS of different chars in many different RPGs. It's kinda a pain, sometimes ... To all you Newbies out there - be glad that I was naughty and deleted all your names!! Otherwise ... *Yvonne swings her Bucket (tm) around playfully, soaking a few disgruntled sheep in the process* Fare thee well! Yvonne Goddess of Kelpies, Selkies, and the Water-Borne Carrier of the Enchanted Bucket (tm) Knight of Fluff and Lady of the OoUH Head of the Albertan CfWD Headquarters ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Here lies Spider; I stepped, he's wider. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 07:47:34 EST From: SachiAiko-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Bardic Voices Message-ID: ::stretches and yawns:: Jes finished The Robin and the Kestrel. Good Good. Starting Eagal and Nightengail now ... Wondering what all thought of em... ::yawns again sleepily:: If i can stay up long nough that is ::blinks tiredly and wing-wavies:: Snow Sleepy Daughter of frost. Lead. Follow. Or get outa my flight-path! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 05:51:36 PST From: "Shadow Wolf" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: blindness/censorship Message-ID: <19990225135136.2990.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> Re: the Blindness thread, It would be interesting to read about a blind herald. I think a stronger bond would develop with the character's companion because he/she would be somewhat dependent on the companion's sight. BTW, I used to date a blind woman. She would have made a wonderful herald. She could tell almost instantly if a person was sincere or not and whether or not they were lying. It would also be interesting to have a character that has difficulty walking. The reason I say that is I use a wheelchair to get around. I have always wondered what changed in Talia's life after her feet were crushed. About the miner in the Sword of Ice, I think Misty described the bitterness of many disabled people very well with that character. I'm not saying that I'm never bitter, sometimes I am. However, there are people that live in bitterness like that miner. Re: the Censorship thread, I know this thread is very old but I have to say this. My mom was one of those parents that thought fantasy/science fiction was evil. She was afraid that if I read that "stuff" I would become a Satanist or something. (Apologies to any Satanists on the list.) When she found any of my books she would destroy them or if they came from the library make me take them back. It was the same with my D&D stuff. Fortunately, my dad is an avid Science Fiction reader. He would quietly slip me books. Now I'm in my own apartment and can read whatever I like without hiding it. ShadowWolf, God of Stupid Chess Moves Knight of Fluff, Founder of OOPS Bonded with Wesak and Waszzy "My mind is going...I can feel it..." HAL ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 07:38:24 PST From: "toni kelly" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: censored! and more... Message-ID: <19990225153824.7183.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> heyla. Just had to put in my 2cents. My mother never tried to censor the content of my reading, but she did try to restrict to amount of time I spent reading. I think in large part that this was because she resented the fact that I could get so far into what I was reading that I completely shut out everything around me, and my mother resented that i had an eacape that she didn't. She always said that she didn't have time to read, but no offense to anyone, but I've always thought that people who claimed to have no time to read were simply unwilling to read. Even when I was attending school and working full time I found time to read, even if it was just a half hour before I went to bed. If you can find three hours every evening to watch reruns on television, you can find time to read if you really want to. The only people who ever attempt to censor the content of what I read were my teachers in elementary school. In sixth grade I can remember being hauled to the principal's office and forbidden to read anything at school not personally chosen from the school library by my teacher. My mother was upset about that, because she felt that if my parents had no problem with what I was reading than my teacher's should have no reason to complain. What was truly ironic about that incedent was that the books i got in trouble for reading were one's that you would think most teachers would love for their students to read--Jane Eyre, Wuthering Heights, Gone With The Wind. But i just happened toe get stuck with a teacher who felt that those books, or to be truthful, any book that she had not personally selected, were inappropriate for her students. Sorry that was so long. Didn't mean to ramble on like that. ObMisty--i finally got one of my friend's to read LHM, and she loved it. Unfortunately, her father is a rather fundamentalist minister,found the books, read just enough to figure out Van's sexual preferances, and has now decided that I am a bad influence on his daughter. OOps! Gotta go. Sorry this is so Long! Aurora Dawnstar ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 09:22:56 -0800 (PST) From: Lisa Holcomb To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: censored! and more... Message-ID: <19990225172256.7661.rocketmail-+AT+-send501.yahoomail.com> ---toni kelly wrote: What was truly ironic about that incedent was that the > books i got in trouble for reading were one's that you would think most > teachers would love for their students to read--Jane Eyre, Wuthering > Heights, Gone With The Wind. \ ****Oh yes...those were the days....I got in trouble like that all the time...Wuthering Heights and Jane Eyre being the teachers favorite thing to pick on me about. I did reports on the Brontes and everything and she still tried to fail me that semester b/c I "Must have been cheating to know all about college level reading" (that was written on my report card) my parents had a conference with the principal and i did a special little assignment on a cutsy book about bears that ran a grocery store...next semester they put me in the gifted program) Gotta hate people like that. Ob misty: any chance she'll put together another valdemar-ish book like "sword of ice"? i'd love to read the alberich story, but i'm not buying a book of horse stories to do it and our local library, while carrying a fairly decent selection of scifi/fantasy does not have those books...*sigh* lisa == Lisa Holcomb awamiba-+AT+-yahoo.com http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Arc/5894 "People who live in reality have no imagination." _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free -+AT+-yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1887 **********************************