MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1906 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Elspeth and Talia (long-somewhat venting) by "Nelson Greenslade" 2) Re: Elspeth and Talia (long-somewhat venting) by SachiAiko-+AT+-aol.com 3) Re: Elspeth and Talia (long-somewhat venting) by Obsidian 4) Re: Di Tregarde by Orelalaith 5) (no subject) by grouch1 6) Re: Talia by "Abigail Laughlin" 7) Re: Di Tregarde by Kenneth Allen Hyde 8) Re: Di Tregarde by "Tim & Tiffanie" 9) Re: most and least favorites by Lisa Holcomb 10) Re: explanations by skyfire-+AT+-t-online.de (skyfire) 11) OT: books and bookaholics by skyfire-+AT+-t-online.de (skyfire) 12) Re: Di Tregarde by Monica Shin 13) Re: Talia by Paige ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 18:27:06 -0400 From: "Nelson Greenslade" To: Subject: Re: Elspeth and Talia (long-somewhat venting) Message-ID: <002001be6f4b$baa10e20$2f95b3cf-+AT+-epzfbrwg> Okay, this is getting out of hand. Let's step back here. I responded to a list question about least favorite characters. There was, of course, a defense of those characters I dislike, because pretty much everyone has loyal fans here. However, I now feel as if I am being pressured to change my opinion. "There is no one true way"; you don't have to live by it, but you have to adhere to it on this list. My opinion is just as valid as anyone else's, and I don't have to change it. If I don't like a character, that's my opinion. I can't be expected to like everyone, and I'm not going to try (again). You all have the right to express your personal feelings on these subjects, but I don't have to agree. And if that makes me seem close-minded or yellow-bellied, too bad. I am out of the Talia&Elspeth conversation. There is no need to challenge my opinions, my experiences, or my upbringing. If you ~really~ want to know, email me privately and I can send you my whole life story. But there is a certain amount of respect that must be maintained in a public forum such as this, and I am now being disrespected. If you really feel the need to insult me, mail to grenslde-+AT+-nbnet.nb.ca . Flame until you can flame no more. Just keep it OFF LIST. And as a matter of fact, it's bloody cold and snowy 'up here', just like in most of the rest of Canada. ***~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*** *Elsa takes a deep breath to calm herself, hugging a plush shinagami-sheep, and a cuddly Grim Cheeper(tm)* Now that that's said, I'll move on to other topics. Alexia queried: < of books you haven't read?>> *LOL* YES!!! I keep buying and borrowing books when I've already got a ton of 'em waiting to be read! I manage to keep the number down (I'd have a lot more shelf room if I were allowed to sell my Nancy Drew collection --_--) to under 200, but my shelves are starting to creak, and one is already half-collapsed! I don't know what I'm going to do when I move out! ObMisty: Uhmmm... For all those Listees out there who have read "Lammas Night", the book of short stories based on/inspired by a song Misty wrote (includes the song and Misty's prose contribution), which story was your favorite? Does anyone know if a recording of this song is available (possibly through Firebird Arts)? NonMisty: Just thought I might inform all the manga/anime fans on the list that Naoko Takahashi (the creater of Sailor Moon) has gotten married to the creator of Yu Yu Hakusho! *sends fairies around to sprinkle shiny-hearts confetti* Sayonara! Elsa Knight of Fluff, One In Black, Member of the Order of Drifting Ashes, OoUH Champion of Iceshadow, Moonbeam, Jonne, and Jaysen, and Summoner of Monsters "Don't fear the Reaper... Baby take my hand..." *mental images of holding hands with Duo and Koenma* ^_^ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 21:53:36 EST From: SachiAiko-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Elspeth and Talia (long-somewhat venting) Message-ID: ::creeps outa lurkdom:: Alright. I have to responed to this.. I'm sorry. But Talia was not wrong in making love to Kris. She was not begging for sympathy And she was raised in a way that made her fear Men and people in general. I think Talia was a great character. And personaly i loved Kris. :sighs: And I don see a damned thing wrong with what she did. Dirk din either. she din even KNOW she was life- bonded to Dirk! ::rolls eyes:: So. i liked Talia. And i understand why she din say anything about the bullies. It was agrivating that she din. but i understand. I was in a situation where i was beat up every day for 4 months. And every time i tried to tell some one i got in trouble. So i can understand. She never had an adult or athority figure be kind to her, understand or teach her anything about *life*.. i think she did well with what she had to go one. And Elspeth. I am of two minds about her. She isnt one of my favorite characters... There WAS a hauty air about her. But i can also understand where she was coming from. She was kinda being ruled by everyone who thought they could show her the right way. And look what she did. She was right. She found the right people without their help. And i think Skiff was almost pathetic when he was so "in love" with Elspeth. But she put em in his place.. A lil harsh but i understand that..I don know. She annoyed me sometimes but she wasnt a bad character. (prolly cause i have some of her faults... You know what they say... your always faster to judge faults in others you yourself posses ::coughs::) So yea. Thats it. ::nodnods:: ::creeps back into lurkdom: Snow Gods its cold here ::gaze up:: Lead. Follow or get outa my flight-path! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 19:18:05 -0800 From: Obsidian To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Elspeth and Talia (long-somewhat venting) Message-ID: <36EDCD6A.2CC2C411-+AT+-softhome.net> Nelson Greenslade wrote: > Okay, this is getting out of hand. Let's step back here. > I responded to a list question about least favorite characters. There was, > of course, a defense of those characters I dislike, because pretty much > everyone has loyal fans here. However, I now feel as if I am being pressured > to change my opinion. > "There is no one true way"; you don't have to live by it, but you have to > adhere to it on this list. My opinion is just as valid as anyone else's, and > I don't have to change it. If I don't like a character, that's my opinion. I > can't be expected to like everyone, and I'm not going to try (again). You > all have the right to express your personal feelings on these subjects, but > I don't have to agree. And if that makes me seem close-minded or > yellow-bellied, too bad. I am out of the Talia&Elspeth conversation. > There is no need to challenge my opinions, my experiences, or my > upbringing. If you ~really~ want to know, email me privately and I can send > you my whole life story. But there is a certain amount of respect that must > be maintained in a public forum such as this, and I am now being > disrespected. If you really feel the need to insult me, mail to > grenslde-+AT+-nbnet.nb.ca . Flame until you can flame no more. Just keep it OFF > LIST. > Bravo! Everyone has his or her own opinion. There's no reason to flame. Everyone is friends on this list and each has their own opinions. Let's keep it nice guys, there's no reason for this list to turn into a flaming match. For other things, anybody liked Tiger Burning Bright. I certainly didn't. The plot didn't evolve well at all, and the characters were awfull. Of course, this is just IMHO.....:) Obsidian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 23:53:10 -0500 (EST) From: Orelalaith To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Di Tregarde Message-ID: On Sun, 14 Mar 1999, Derrick O wrote: > Right now I'm stranded far away at school and away from most of my books > and other refrences so I was wondering if there was anyone out there who > could help me. In the first Di Tregarde book, Children of the Night, > there is a type of Japanese vampire that either eats souls or life > energy,I can't remember which. Does anyone out there know what type of > vampire this guy was and exactly what he ate? Thank you for your help. Actually, it's a type of spirit... normally, they eat mist or inscense, but that perticular breed ate souls... there's another type which ate blood and another which ate flesh, it's a gakki... Slight Fluff: My fav Misty book is now Fiddler's Fair... well, not really the whole book (it's an anthology...), but rather the story "Dumb Feast"... OK, it's a kinda nasty story (ghost comes back to kill someone...) but *I* like it!! :) > -Derrick > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > * -------------------------------------------------------------------- * "Eventually we come to a point where High Science becomes indistinguishable from High Magick" -NOT misquoting A.C. Clark, CORRECTLY quoting me! * -------------------------------------------------------------------- * http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~avariel uid : hsug-+AT+-ug.cs.sunysb.edu * -------------------------------------------------------------------- * ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 00:24:50 +0000 From: grouch1 To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: <36EDA4D1.DFA67EE4-+AT+-prodigy.net> Hi. I have 2 quick questions that I was wondering if anyone could help me out with. One is: Does anyone happen to know how far after the Mage Wars, Owlflight takes place? The second one is: Does anyone know how I could get a hold of any of Mercedes Lackey's books that may have been printed in Spanish? Thanks. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 05:25:46 PST From: "Abigail Laughlin" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Talia Message-ID: <19990316132546.5934.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> <> I have to disagree. Firstly, though I *could* be mistaken, I'm fairly sure Talia and Kris discussed the fact that Talia was lifebonded to Dirk *before* they started sleeping together. So not only did *Talia* know she was lifebonded to Kris's best friend, but so did Kris. And, regardless of how she was raised and how she was abused, it still wasn't right and I'd have liked to at least see her worry about it beyond fretting about how Kris felt about her. Even if she didn't know she was lifebonded to Dirk, she knew she had feelings for the man. Yes, how she was raised and all the trauma she went through affected her, but that doesn't change the fact that she made the decision to sleep with Kris and that decision dangles in a rather grey area. And note that when Dirk found out about it, the poor misguided boy was very hurt. This said, I think that Talia *did* need the support Kris gave her, in that way and other ways, and the both of them needed comforting, and yes, sleeping together accomplished that nicely. And I'm not damning them both to hell for it; it was a nice scene. But I'd have liked to see Talia's conscience at least bug her a little about it. Kris's too. Zha'hai'allav'a, Raven Darkblade and Mor the raven, Holy Hand of the Goddess of Elves, Member of the Mistic Circle, Webmaster of the Circle of Stone, Knight and Founding Member of the Order of Unsung Heroes; http://www.angelfire.com/ky/Ashke/ - The Labyrinth Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:23:40 -0500 (EST) From: Kenneth Allen Hyde To: Misty Lackey List Subject: Re: Di Tregarde Message-ID: On Mon, 15 Mar 1999, Winterstar K'Canada wrote: > Alright, Derrick, this Japanese vampire was a gaki, who ate souls. > There were three types that were dangerous: eaters of flesh, blood, and > souls. Makes me want to never meet one... :) I've never run across any reference to a classical gaki that ate "souls." Most of them tend to "eat" harmless things: perfume, music, the emanations of a holy man, etc. A few (and I suspect these are recent additions to the Japanese folkloric tradition--Meiji or later), do hunger for flesh and blood. BTW, most Japanese people will immediately recognize the word "gaki" if you put it in the right context. In modern Japanese, it means "mischievous and badly-behaved child" and is sort of the equivalent of the English "gremlins." This does, btw, suggest that "gaki" never had horrific connotations in Japanese. Terms which are borrowed from folklore and applied to children rarely ever are horrific. The terms generally refer to nuisancy creatures that can be mischievous but are not malicious or truly dangerous. That was one of the things that I disliked about Children of the Night, the cultural innacurracy of it. I've yet to find a Japanese person who recognizes the "gaki" in the book. It's just not a Japanese style of monster. May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd Councilor of Mist Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me //www.ling.udel.edu/hyde/prof/ken.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 11:44:33 -0600 From: "Tim & Tiffanie" To: Subject: Re: Di Tregarde Message-ID: <003d01be6fd4$a6dcf140$68b7bfa8-+AT+-tiffanie> >On Mon, 15 Mar 1999, Winterstar K'Canada wrote: > >> Alright, Derrick, this Japanese vampire was a gaki, who ate souls. >> There were three types that were dangerous: eaters of flesh, blood, and >> souls. Makes me want to never meet one... :) >Cennydd: > >I've never run across any reference to a classical gaki that ate "souls." >Most of them tend to "eat" harmless things: perfume, music, the emanations >of a holy man, etc. A few (and I suspect these are recent additions to >the Japanese folkloric tradition--Meiji or later), do hunger for flesh and >blood. The only other reference I've seen to gaki is in the GURPS Blood Types source book by Steve Jackson Games. There they are described as walking corpses who thirst for blood. However, some seem to be ;more like demonic spirits than former mortals. They are masters of shapeshifting and have at their disposal not only the animal form of monstrous, tiger-sized cats, but the ability to take other human forms, even to the extent of impersonating a living person. They suffer no damage from sunlight. It often uses guile and deceit to stalk its prey. A typical tactic is to gain the confidance of their intended victim in another form. Either by dispatching someone who is already close to the victim or by merely taking a very pleasing form (generally of the opposite sex from the prey). Then it turns into the giant cat and drains its prey. Anywho, that's the only other reference i've seen to gaki (you know, it reminds me of the movie "Ghost and the Darkness". So, I don't know where she got her reference for creating her gaki, maybe she just took bits and pieces from lots of different places, but this was at least one example where they weren't just cute bothersome spirits. *grin* And on the calling kids names that aren't horrific....well, lets see..... we call our kids everything from: velociraptor, ustrel (another kind of vampire), monsters (that's common among most parents), heathens, little demons, you get the picture...most of those would not be considered cute or non-harmful. Its all in how you say it. *smile* I'm in the Talia didn't know camp....but I haven't looked it up yet. Soft winds and bright sun, Dax the Eternal, Goddess of Elves and Unicorns, Evangelist of Low Humor, Knight of Fluff, Councilor of Mist, Watcher of Continuity for the Mistic Circle, HomePage: http://homepages.infoseek.com/~dakorillon/index.html NewbieFest: http://www.ling.udel.edu/hyde/pers/misty/newbiefest.html Lothlorien: http://www.elfwood.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 09:56:27 -0800 (PST) From: Lisa Holcomb To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: most and least favorites Message-ID: <19990316175627.12368.rocketmail-+AT+-web510.yahoomail.com> --- Dainestar-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > Least favorite Non-Misty book: The Sound and the Fury!!! Ach, I DETESTED that > book. It was one thing to have flashes of consciousness switching back and > forth at random points in the story- how the HELL can you understand what's > going on? Faulkner just annoys me. ***hey, that's the best part! and if you read it in the way faulkner intended it to be read, it would be even easier to understand...he intended to publish it in different colors, one for each characters thoughts... lisa :) ob misty: ummm....what can i say? ... my favorite story from the lamma's night book was the one where the woman comes back to life and causes the death of her husband... === Lisa Holcomb awamiba-+AT+-yahoo.com http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Arc/5894 "People who live in reality have no imagination." _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free -+AT+-yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:30:02 -0800 From: skyfire-+AT+-t-online.de (skyfire) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: explanations Message-ID: <36EDFA6A.B3C2ECEC-+AT+-t-online.de> Elsa wrote: > Well, that's not really relevant, since I am now and always have > been a Canadian. Oh. OOH. And it's even in your email-addy... sorry. See, I'm just a very european... European, never been outside of Europe (although I plan to be - WorldCon 2000). Sometimes, just sometimes, I tend to lump all Norteamericanos together and apply one tag... But rest assured, from now on, I won't forget. But there's still the question if bookstores do orders. You DO have bookstores where you live, don't you? I'm just curious to know if there's a difference between canadian and german bookstores (which will order just about every book, at no extra cost). So can't you walk up to the counter and say "I want to order this or that book"? -- Khenta Blaufalk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 22:38:03 -0800 From: skyfire-+AT+-t-online.de (skyfire) To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: OT: books and bookaholics Message-ID: <36EDFC4B.93CAEBA-+AT+-t-online.de> Alexia/Sabrina schrieb: > Does anyone know any books in the UK that will get OUT OF PRINT > fantasy books? > Anyone know if they do or anywhere else to try? Don't know about the UK, but why don't you try , a good source for 2nd hand, OOP and hard-to-find books. Those are mostly US bookstores, though. > Does anyone else just long to get books, books and more books even if > you've > got piled of them of books you > haven't read? Oooooohhhh, yes. Welcome to the world of biblioholics, fellow sufferer... ;) > PS- is anyone a CJCherryh reader and willing to talk about her books? Here, here, I am, offlist, of course. How do you like her fantasy? -- Khenta Blaufalk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 14:04:49 -0800 From: Monica Shin To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Di Tregarde Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19990316140449.006b78ac-+AT+-pop.pipeline.com> At 03:50 PM 3/16/99 GMT, you wrote: >On Mon, 15 Mar 1999, Winterstar K'Canada wrote: > >> Alright, Derrick, this Japanese vampire was a gaki, who ate souls. >> There were three types that were dangerous: eaters of flesh, blood, and >> souls. Makes me want to never meet one... :) > >I've never run across any reference to a classical gaki that ate "souls." >Most of them tend to "eat" harmless things: perfume, music, the emanations >of a holy man, etc. A few (and I suspect these are recent additions to >the Japanese folkloric tradition--Meiji or later), do hunger for flesh and >blood. Ah ha! That's where I've heard it... a gaki listening to the sutras of an especially holy buddist monk, no? IIRC, I think he goes to the heavenly land (don't remember the name of it) after listening for a while. ^^;; As for the rest... yes, I think you're right. I've read many more accounts of ghosts or oni (ogre) or demons being malicious than gaki (if you ever hear of them all). >BTW, most Japanese people will immediately recognize the word "gaki" if >you put it in the right context. In modern Japanese, it means >"mischievous and badly-behaved child" and is sort of the equivalent of the >English "gremlins." This does, btw, suggest that "gaki" never had >horrific connotations in Japanese. Terms which are borrowed from folklore >and applied to children rarely ever are horrific. The terms generally >refer to nuisancy creatures that can be mischievous but are not malicious >or truly dangerous. A question... what are the kanji (if any) for gaki? I know when applied to children, it is written in katakana, but when the term is used for hungry ghosts, are there characters or just written in kana? Monica ----- Monica/Akira-chan/Heero/Hayama/Naga/Kircheis no Miko This is my less obnoxious sig at akirachan-+AT+-pipeline.com http://www.pipeline.com/~monica/ - monica-+AT+-pipeline.com Short, ne? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 18:42:26 -0500 From: Paige To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Talia Message-ID: <36EEEC62.1BF7-+AT+-sympatico.ca> Abigail Laughlin wrote: > > < sympathy And she was raised in a way that made her fear Men and people > in general. I think Talia was a great character. And personaly i loved > Kris. :sighs: And I don see a damned thing wrong with what she did. > Dirk din either. she din even KNOW she was lifebonded to Dirk!>> > > I have to disagree. Firstly, though I *could* be mistaken, I'm fairly > sure Talia and Kris discussed the fact that Talia was lifebonded to Dirk > *before* they started sleeping together. So not only did *Talia* know > she was lifebonded to Kris's best friend, but so did Kris. > And, regardless of how she was raised and how she was abused, it still > wasn't right and I'd have liked to at least see her worry about it > beyond fretting about how Kris felt about her. Even if she didn't know > she was lifebonded to Dirk, she knew she had feelings for the man. Yes, > how she was raised and all the trauma she went through affected her, but > that doesn't change the fact that she made the decision to sleep with > Kris and that decision dangles in a rather grey area. And note that when > Dirk found out about it, the poor misguided boy was very hurt. > > This said, I think that Talia *did* need the support Kris gave her, in > that way and other ways, and the both of them needed comforting, and > yes, sleeping together accomplished that nicely. And I'm not damning > them both to hell for it; it was a nice scene. But I'd have liked to see > Talia's conscience at least bug her a little about it. Kris's too. IIRC, half the book ;-) was about how much Kris conscience was bothering him about the whole thing. Talia's too, though not as much the act itself, but about how she thought she had seduced him empathecally (sp?) I could be wrong, it's been a while since I read it, that's just what I got From it. -- Paige GO LEAFS!!! proud to be Outlandish My mind not only wanders, sometimes it leaves me completly. God put me on earth to accomplish a certain number of things. Right now I am so far behind, I will live forever. JESUS LOVES YOU. It's everybody else that thinks you're an ass. I didn't fight my way to the top of the food chain to be a vegetarian. (to e-mail double the p and take out the "reston") ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1906 **********************************