MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1913

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Elspeth Order and other stuff
	by "ambermoon starshadow" <ambermoon00-+AT+-hotmail.com>
  2) Support Royal Brats! Freedom of bitchiness!
	by "Chris Robertson" <wookiee_girl-+AT+-hotmail.com>
  3) Re:Elspeth bitch order/lots of other stuff
	by "Chris Robertson" <wookiee_girl-+AT+-hotmail.com>
  4) Chosen,ect
	by "Amy Lea-Anne Tracey" <dawnfire-+AT+-angelfire.com>
  5) Re: Elspeth and Skif
	by Paige <ppwalker-+AT+-sympatico.ca>
  6) braid/rant (whichever you prefer)
	by "Kristy Lyseng" <moonshade_noema-+AT+-hotmail.com>
  7) 
	by "LISS T." <half_asleep-+AT+-usa.net>
  8) Gifted != Chosen, i think
	by "L. J. Thompson" <ljt-+AT+-lclark.edu>
  9) Re: Elspeth and Skif
	by "Jamie Jackobs" <shadowcat19-+AT+-hotmail.com>
 10) Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 1911
	by Jeffery Kuebler <jkeeb-+AT+-mindspring.com>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1999 22:12:23 PST
From: "ambermoon starshadow" <ambermoon00-+AT+-hotmail.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Elspeth Order and other stuff
Message-ID: <19990323061223.15007.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com>

Heyla,

   First off, I'm very happy about all the responses to this idea of 
mine. Now, I've compiled a list of all the names suggested so far, so 
here they are: 

Lovers of Bitches, Royal Defenders of the Brat, Throne Abdicators 
Anonymous, Bitches Unite, Society of the Featherbound, Elspeth's Echoes, 
Arrows of Elspeth, and Enclave of Elspeth Defenders

so if people like one of those, or if anyone comes up with another . . . 
. and should we keep this discussion on-list or move it off?

Now for some other stuff . . . .

Winddancer wrote:
>What if there were a strongly Gifted child in Valdemar, so strongly 
>Gifted, and whose Gifts were so active, that (s)he had to become a 
>Herald simply in order to learn how to control them, but who had a 
>completely improper mentality for one? Would some poor Companion 
>Choose him/her in the hopes that (s)he could be changed (which I 
>suppose, in a way, is what happened to Vanyel, though 'Fandes knew he 
>would come to alter his thought-patterns into those befitting a 
>Herald) or what? <snip> Or what if there were a person who would 
>devote his/her life to Valdemar, with the perfect mindset for a 
>Herald, who wished more than anything to be Chosen, but had no Gifts? 
>All the Herlads we've met, as far as I know, have had some Gift or 
>another, even if it was weak. Do you have any opinion on what would 
>happen in the case of such scenarios?

   Maybe those Gifted who aren't Herald material end up leaving the 
country, as those with Mage-Gift did? I don't think the vrondi would 
have done anything to them, as it's mind-magic, but I can't think of 
anything else. For Van, I don't think being Chosen was what made him 
change. I think he always was Herald material, and events around that 
time and being Chosen let him be that way, instead of continuing to be 
trapped in the role he had made for himself. For those unGifted who are 
Herald material, it says somewhere in AotQ (sorry too lazy to look it 
up) that everyone has latent mind-gifts, and in most people they 
wouldn't show up if they weren't Chosen, and that sparks them, or 
something. So even if they wouldn't have it otherwise, all Heralds have 
Gifts.

Herald Katherine wrote:
>people behind me <snip> were all giving me these looks like "stop 
>reading that crap".  do you guys find that you never get respect from 
>other readers when you say you like science fiction and fantasy?  it 
>really bothers me because i get it a lot. <snip> these books are VERY 
>well written and a lot of them probably have a lot more work than >some 
"classics" i can think of!  

   I'll be sitting somewhere reading, and someone will ask what it is, 
so I'll show them the cover, and they won't say anything but they give 
these really telling looks. It really annoys me. If given any sort of 
opening, I will go on at length about people's view of these books and 
why they're wrong, and I'm always looking for converts. It's very 
satisfying to introduce someone to a book or series, and see them get 
hooked on sci-fi/fantasy . . . .

solid chocolate sheep to all,
Ambermoon
Singer of Fire
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 00:27:28 PST
From: "Chris Robertson" <wookiee_girl-+AT+-hotmail.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Support Royal Brats! Freedom of bitchiness!
Message-ID: <19990323082737.25356.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com>

>From: "Starshadow *" <starshadow_-+AT+-hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
>To: wookiee_girl-+AT+-hotmail.com
>Subject: Re:Elspeth bitch order
>Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 01:30:22 GMT
>From mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Sat Mar 20 17:29:18 1999
>Received: from vanyel (localhost [127.0.0.1])by vanyel.herald.co.uk 
(8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id BAA05816for <wookiee_girl-+AT+-hotmail.com>; Sun, 
21 Mar 1999 01:30:22 GMT
>Message-Id: <19990321005231.27692.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com>
>Errors-To: lackey-owner-+AT+-herald.co.uk
>Originator: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
>Sender: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
>Precedence: bulk
>X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
>X-Comment: Mercedes Lackey Mailing List
>
>>>Ambermoon wrote:
>>>
>>><<  Say, does anyone think that after this we need an order to 
>defend 
>>> Elspeth, like Firesong has the Singers of Fire and Vanyel has the 
>>Order 
>>> of Amber and Marigold (which I would like to join if possible)? 
>Anyone 
>>> interested? If so, can anyone think of a name? 
I'm new, but i just wanna put my $.02 in - if you're going to set up a 
Support Elspeth Group, i'd like to join.  I support everyone's right to 
be a bratty little kid [it's kid nature, after all] and i definitely 
believe in the right to freedom of bitchiness.  Of course, i exercise 
that right quite a lot but that doesn't make me a bad person.  People 
who don't have their weak moments and bad moments aren't human.  That 
goes for fiction as well as reality.  On Kris and Talia er...sharing 
body warmth - wasn't it Kris who diagnosed Talia's Unresolved Feelings 
towards Dirk as a lifebond? And being as he died, he was set up as a bit 
of an earthly saint in my view - that sort of character can't be kept up 
for long without annoying everyone mightily but Kris didn't need to be 
kept around.  And remember, "the good die young"... What i'm getting at 
is he wouldn't have slept with Talia if he'd thought that there was 
something unethical about sleeping with someone lifebonded to someone 
else.  After all, lots of people do it with people they aren't 
lifebonded to, why is it any different if you are lifebonded but haven't 
done anything aobut it yet?
Sheep! What is with the sheep? I have been lurking for a while [this is 
my first foray into standing on a soapbox] but not long enough to know 
what the sheep are about.  But i will join in...in the interests of 
supporting bilinguality - 
"Beaucoup de moutons chocolats et delicieux pour tout le monde"
Five years of french and this is my greatest achievement...
Chris [a Valdemaran wookiee]
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 00:45:20 PST
From: "Chris Robertson" <wookiee_girl-+AT+-hotmail.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re:Elspeth bitch order/lots of other stuff
Message-ID: <19990323084527.1989.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com>

Winddancer wrote:
>What if there were a strongly Gifted child in Valdemar, so strongly 
>Gifted, and whose Gifts were so active, that (s)he had to become a 
>Herald simply in order to learn how to control them, but who had a 
>completely improper mentality for one? Would some poor Companion Choose 
>him/her in the hopes that (s)he could be changed (which I suppose, in a 
>way, is what happened to Vanyel, though 'Fandes knew he would come to 
>alter his thought-patterns into those befitting a Herald) or what? (I 
>rather think this is what happened to--oh, what was his name? the 
Herald 
>who was trying to kill Ghost and accused Tashir of murdering everyone 
in 
>the castle. Was it Loren? Li'sa'eer, I hated that man! He was /not/ fit 
>to be a Herald, IMNSHO, but he had a powerful Fetching Gift.)
>Or what if there were a person who would devote his/her life to 
>Valdemar, with the perfect mindset for a Herald, who wished more than 
>anything to be Chosen, but had no Gifts? All the Herlads we've met, as 
>far as I know, have had some Gift or another, even if it was weak.
>Do you have any opinion on what would happen in the case of such 
>scenarios?
Maybe if they wer even the slightest bit herald-type people they'd be 
chosen or maybe they'd just put up instinctive shields like Talia did 
before Arrow's Flight and either just go on with life like ungifted 
people or go mad if it was very strong? Other ideas?
On the other thing, ungifted Heralds - has anyone read Misty's The Fire 
Rose? It's got an elemental view of magic [earth/air/fire/water]where 
everyone had all four but one or two more than the others and you could 
only do magic if you had one or two way more. i know velgarth's 
different but maybe everyone has the mind-magic centres in their brain 
adn these virtuous herald-types might have one gift slightly more than 
non-existent - kinda like Skif's Mindspeech.  Anyway, these are just 
ideas i've come up with now so please anyone come up with better ones.
Chris the Valdemaran Wookiee

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 07:24:36 -0800
From: "Amy Lea-Anne Tracey" <dawnfire-+AT+-angelfire.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Chosen,ect
Message-ID: <PEIMPHFAAFACAAAA-+AT+-angelfire.com>

 
*Dawnfire bounces on the trampoline and does a triple flip,landing on her feet on the grass. She wobles around on shaking legs and finally collapses on a big pile of fluffly pink obliging sheep*

Stop that grimacing! I'm gonna comment and that's that! *Tarsi rolls his eyes*

>Winddancer wrote:
>>What if there were a strongly Gifted child in Valdemar, so strongly 
>>Gifted, and whose Gifts were so active, that (s)he had to become a 
>>Herald simply in order to learn how to control them, but who had a 
>>completely improper mentality for one? Would some poor Companion 
>>Choose him/her in the hopes that (s)he could be changed

HiHi,  isn't that what happened with Tashir(s?) and Ghost? Ghost got trapped in Tashir's fear and made him almost insane. Yet someone upstairs must have known that this was gonna happen, 'cause Ghost was a Mindhealer (very unusual). And we all know that the Heralds are Chosen with gifts that will be important in the days ahead.

>>suppose, in a way, is what happened to Vanyel, though 'Fandes knew he 
>>would come to alter his thought-patterns into those befitting a 
>>Herald) or what?  

Ok, remeber Tylendel? Gala wasn't even aware of alot of his thoughts because he blocked her out. The same type of things happen to Vanyel when he tried to suicide. Yfandes didn't know he was gonna do it until after he had locked the door.

. For Van, I don't think being Chosen was what made him 
>change. I think he always was Herald material, and events around that 
>time and being Chosen let him be that way, instead of continuing to be 
>trapped in the role he had made for himself. 

I think that becoming a Herald is something that is destined for you from the time that you are born. This is just my opinion. But when you are Chosen....something....does happen. It's like when Lendel was trying to explain being a Herald to Van, But Van didn't really understand until he was Chosen himself. It was a self-realization thing when he saved those people from the cold-drake.

>Herald Katherine wrote:
>>people behind me  were all giving me these looks like "stop 
>>reading that crap".  do you guys find that you never get respect from 
>>other readers when you say you like science fiction and fantasy?  it 
>>really bothers me because i get it a lot.  these books are VERY 
>>well written and a lot of them probably have a lot more work than >some 
>"classics" i can think of!

I know the feeling!! Especially as how I went to a small, ingrown,predjuiced and close-minded Christian Private School until just this year. I think half of them though I was demonic! *G*  :You Are:  And what does that make you, Tarsi-luv? :hmmp, childish witch:
Anywaz, people don't give my stuff a chance. But what was really funny was the other day I left my Ranma 1/2 graphic novel on a table in the church when I was doing nursery and Dwayne (our youth pastor) came along and had a look at it! *G* it's not my fault he opened it up at the pic of the girl's bathhouse! 
Oh well....  
>
>   I'll be sitting somewhere reading, and someone will ask what it is, 
>so I'll show them the cover, and they won't say anything but they give 
>these really telling looks.

Yep. But I like to show off my books most of the time. If they don't like them, too bad. That's how I met Elsa and her best friend. I was reading AotQ. We might never have met, otherwise! And I probably wouldn't be a part of this fine community right now *smiles at her listsibs, with a twinkle in her eye*

Anywho, I got a summer babysitting job! *takes a moment to cheer happily* I'm gonna be getting 100$ a week! That's what I get a year,now! And my shift is 4pm-12 midnight. Easy breezy! *Dawnfire resembles a very proud Serena (Bunny)...*

"animals and children tell the truth and never lie. Which one is more human,there's a thought now you decide"  (Savage Garden "The Animal Song")

Zhai'helleva listsibs! Peace and Prosperity and may Balance always guide your path, -Dawnfire and oh-so-mature Tarsi


Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:04:09 -0500
From: Paige <ppwalker-+AT+-sympatico.ca>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Elspeth and Skif
Message-ID: <36F7BB79.7955-+AT+-sympatico.ca>

Herald Katherine wrote:
> 
> heyla all
> 
> well i thought i'd stick in a word or two about Elspeth and Skif.  First
> of all i think it was a little cold of Elspeth to hurt him like that.
> But then again i think she proved a better point than some of us could
> have.  But Skif's persistance is one thing that i really LIKED about
> him.  I thought it was sweet that he was so attached to Elspeth.  I mean
> maybe not about the whole love thing,  but when he wanted to protect her
> i mean.  I just thought it was cute that he was so bent on protecting
> her.  He didn't WANT an adult Elspeth because i think he really liked
> her depending on him.  When she depended on him she showed a real
> respect for him that he liked.  It was also one that not many people
> would have expected out of "the brat".  All in all i think Skif was a
> little slow to pick up, but he had good intentions.  (and for all you
> female list-members, i'm sure you've seen for yourself how stupid men
> can get when they are "in love".)
> 
Yes Skif was being stupid.  That's as far as I can go in my agreement of
your analysis.  Elspeth was a Herald, not a little pampered princess. 
Look at Selenay, she went to war, she knew how to fight, no one coddled
her.  For anyone to expect Elspth to sit back and gladly except the roll
that he intended for her is ludicrous (sp?).  Sorry, but it's not cute
to have someone bent on protecting you when you don't need protecting,
and if Skif wasn't a Herald I would have accused him of being a stalker
(the Market scene).  IMNSHO Skif IS a pain in the tail (can you tell I
don't think much of him?).
Once they got to the Gryphons lair when he started comparing her to
Nayara, calling her cold and unhelpful...sheesh...then later calling her
a statue.  The boys a blockhead if you ask me.
FYI this was not a flame, I just don't like the guy :-)
Just my...oh...$10
-- 
Paige - jumping down from her soapbox
GO LEAFS!!!
proud to be Outlandish
My mind not only wanders, sometimes it leaves me completly.
(to e-mail double the p and take out the "reston")

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 09:42:51 PST
From: "Kristy Lyseng" <moonshade_noema-+AT+-hotmail.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: braid/rant (whichever you prefer)
Message-ID: <19990323174251.17000.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com>

Heyla!

Herald Katherine wrote:
>okay, well while i'm here, i was at the bookstore yesterday (no no! 
keep 
>reading, please! this isnt just some stupid story!) and i was buying my 
>very own copy of "storm breaking" (they had it! they really had it!) 
and 
>i asked the lady if she could order a book or two for me.  i gave her 
>the names.(WOFate, WOChange in particular.) and the lady was all 
>uninterested and the people behind me that were buying books about 
>polotics or shakespeare novels and stuff were all giving me these looks 
>like "stop reading that crap".  do you guys find that you never get 
>respect from other readers when you say you like science fiction and 
>fantasy?  it really bothers me because i get it a lot.  damn, i mean 
>they are not trashy harlequinn (sp) romance novels or anything! (no 
>offense to any romance readers.) these books are VERY well written and 
a 
>lot of them probably have a lot more work than some "classics" i can 
>think of!<snip>

    <Kristy grins as she remembers certain remarks about the things she 
prefers to read.> Oh, I can definetly identify! You're taling to 
somebody who has StarWars & StarTrek books collecting dust on her 
bookshelf!<g> If you think fantasy is bad, just casually mention that 
you read one of the two and imagine what type of reaction you'll get. 
<shrugs> I have to admit that it bothers me as well. Science 
Fiction&Fantasy are just as good as other fiction novels, so why should 
they be looking down their noses at us? <Kristy grins.> Heh, if only 
they knew the book that I'm reading now which happens to be titled THE 
PHYSICS OF STARTREK. And that's where I got this handy, dandy little 
quote from Stephen Hawkings that nobody can deny: "Today's science 
fiction, is often tomorrow's science fact." Hah, to those that look down 
on sci-fi and fantasy! It rocks and so do we who love it!     
    <Kristy sheepishly jumps off the soapbox and hands it to another 
list-sib. "Quick, take it before I start to lecture again!"> Heh, heh, 
you're not the only one who can complain_and_lecture at the same time, 
Katherine. 
Chocolate, egg-shaped sheep to all! (Yeah, I know it's not Easter yet, 
but who says we can't do our shopping a little earlier?)
Love, Light and Laughter,
    Kristy (a.k.a. Noema Sunstorm, Dewshine, Starsong, and Silverstorm)
--------------------------------
"Today's science fiction, is often tomorrow's science fact."--Stephen 
Hawkings.
-------------------------------- 
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: 23 Mar 99 11:22:31 MST
From: "LISS T." <half_asleep-+AT+-usa.net>
To: Mercedes Lackey Mailing List <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Message-ID: <19990323182231.3384.qmail-+AT+-www0h.netaddress.usa.net>

I'm a newbie on this list, but I'm enjoying all this.  I'm not quite ready to
get in the middle of the arguments yet, but I did have a request.

I'm trying to find any pages relating to Misty.  I'm not having the best luck,
so I was wondering if any of you could help??

Also, I'm in the process of building my homepage, so any links, graphics,
help, etc. would be appreciated. 

Thanks!
;) Liss

**********************************************
Liss T. ;)
half_asleep-+AT+-usa.net
http://members.tripod.com/~half_asleep

If you have any ideas, links, graphics, etc.
for my new web page, please e-mail me.  THX!
**********************************************

____________________________________________________________________
Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 10:18:51 -0800
From: "L. J. Thompson" <ljt-+AT+-lclark.edu>
To: "'mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk'" <mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk>
Subject: Gifted != Chosen, i think
Message-ID: <01BE7516.8FA46AC0-+AT+-BASIL>


Winddancer wrote:
>What if there were a strongly Gifted child in Valdemar, so strongly
>Gifted, and whose Gifts were so active, that (s)he had to become a
>Herald simply in order to learn how to control them, but who had a
>completely improper mentality for one? Would some poor Companion Choose
>him/her in the hopes that (s)he could be changed (which I suppose, in a
>way, is what happened to Vanyel, though 'Fandes knew he would come to
>alter his thought-patterns into those befitting a Herald) or what?

Hmm... I don't know. But not everyone with a Mind-Magic Gift was Chosen, 
(such as the Weather-Witch in Arrow's Flight) so I kind of think that the 
Companions wouldn't Choose someone unless they were good Herald material. I 
do wonder what would happen though. Maybe the one of the priesthoods would 
do something? Did any of them have members with Mind-Magic?

Oh, and if Outlook decides to send you a bunch of garbage with this 
message, I'm sorry. I'll try to fix it as soon as I figure out why it isn't 
behaving. Gotta love Microsoft and all of their random and bizarre features 
that they never explain....

May squirrels never take a liking to your teeth,
L.J. Thompson
ICQ #6886878

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end


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 13:36:23 PST
From: "Jamie Jackobs" <shadowcat19-+AT+-hotmail.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: Elspeth and Skif
Message-ID: <19990323213623.57724.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com>

I think Elspeth delt with Skif very accordingly, by ingonring the 
feelings he was haveing for her, and look at the good that came out of 
her shoving him off, He and Nyara met, and *clears throat*, it turns out 
that they were life bonded, and really, Elspeth was just being cruel to 
be kind, because if she had played up to Skif, it would have been false, 
which would have been worse by a long shot
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 21:40:18 -0500
From: Jeffery Kuebler <jkeeb-+AT+-mindspring.com>
To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk
Subject: Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 1911
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19990323214018.006bfc3c-+AT+-pop.mindspring.com>

Heyla, 
	Order of the BRAT: (Bitches Require Attention Too).   Okay, so it's really
bad, but I like the idea of turning BRAT into an anachronym (sp?). 

	Anyways, on to MUCH more interesting things. Junior Exit Exam testing is
going on at my school right now (LOTS of omitted Fluff here) and the whole
point is that I met this really great guy in the testing room. He's read
Misty. I can't find very many other girls who've read her down here in the
over-conventional suburbs of Metro-Atlanta. Well, aside from the fact that
he's perfect and wonderful and all that other stuff, he's studied psychic
stuff along with his Wiccan studies (he went Catholic instead) and he's a
Reiki (sp?) Master. Well, he's explained to me that alot of what Misty says
in her books about ley-lines and nodes is true. Misty (according to my
friend) has had some psychic and "magical" (depending on your deffinition
of Magic) training. I jus thought that was interesting...
	But that's all from me tonight. I'm pretty tired at the moment. Love,
Light and Laughter to you all!!!!!!
Zhai'helleva, 
	~The Lady Astreia 
Proud Knight of Fluff, Bardic Trainee, Spy for CfWD, Keeper of Dragons,
Slayer of Morons, and Princess of Bruhaha and Everything Obscure. 

(Montreat, NC . . . HERE I COME!!!!!!!)


------------------------------

End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1913
**********************************