MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1962 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) New idea + Re: governments by "Kristjan Wager" 2) Mother's Day & Religion, Politics and Theives by Katie McQuage 3) scattered nonsensical ramblings by "ambermoon starshadow" 4) Re: Mother's Day & Religion, Politics and Theives by "Tanya Evans" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 01:56:24 PDT From: "Kristjan Wager" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: New idea + Re: governments Message-ID: <19990511085624.86421.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> Hi listsibs Kristy talked about goverments and said: but I'm remembering from the e-mails over the weekend, that someone used the terms "good government" and "evil/bad government". I do not agree with this. Governments are neither good nor evil. If you want to blame a government doing bad things, like Hitler for example, blame the PEOPLE running the government.< Lord Acton said: "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutly. Great men are nearly always bad men". In a monarchy, the ruler rules absolutly, and is the goverment. He makes the rules, and make sure they are followed, often by violent means. He might even be smart, and make some people ( the military ) want to keep him in power, because of special benifits and such. This means that it is awfully hard for the people to do something about him, since the ruler often have the people in a iron grip. It takes great currage indeed to try to stand up to someone like that, when you know for certain that it will get you killed. And now to something completly different: I have noticed that a lot of people on this list have their own homepages, and I like to see other peoples' work, so I thought maybe we should make a list over everyone's homepages, so we can go visit them. Since I'm the one with the idea I'll probably have to be the one making it, so if it got any interest, please mail me PRIVATELY, with your URL and the name of the Homepage. I'm going to make the list on a homepage I don't really use, and in alphabethical order, according to the homepage's name. If there are too few interested, I won't bother taking the efford though, so people you have a week to mail those informations if you're interested. sheepflavored sheep everyone Absalon ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 13:54:30 +0000 From: Katie McQuage To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Mother's Day & Religion, Politics and Theives Message-ID: <37383694.8CCEAFDC-+AT+-geocities.com> Midsummer is like mother's day. Kirs said in... Arrow's Flight? Fall? Flight I think.... that in the morning they all go out and pick flowers for all the girls and mothers (actual or expectant) get fruit baskets. Sounds like a version of mothers' day to me. It's possible that he was just using an idiom or turn of phrase. I like "little god of lust"; it amuses me. It's also possible that each of the Emperoro and consorts was ascribed an attribute. It isn't uncommon in pantheons. Check out Egyptian mythology. From what I understand, past rulers were given power over various interesting things they did in their lifetime. The advisor who built the first temple (named Imhotep, like the Mummy, interestingly enough) was deified and given attributes relating to architecture and building. So some Emperor known for amorous conquests/rampages could become identified with lust. I'm still inclined to believe it was a turn of phrase, though. Someone else mentioned the Arrows mother's day quote. ::sniff:: Actually I haven't noticed the monarchy thing, because it isn't really true. Heritage of Shannara: Bad Government is a Federation remarkably like the US. Not so much as to make it stretchable into allegory, but there are similarities. Valdemar itself can barely count as a monarchy, since the Queen can be outvoted. And when you mean running the country with a bludgeon, that's more socialism than communism, I think. They're second cousins, but not exactly the same thing. Anyway, monarchy is actually logical for fantasy novels, because most are set in pre-industrial revolution societies, without any method of coordinating the beaurocracy that is necessary for a true democracy. Oh, you can set up a republic or tow, but they won't last long without some way to get the people involved in governing. And what farmer without Industrial Revolution power as time to read the paper? Will he even get the paper until three weekfter the events occurred? If you're going to have a democracy similar to the United States, you need a method of quickly and efficiently passing information, like the telegraph. It would be feasably in Valdemar thanks to the Herald-Couriers, but not as good as modern systems. Hardon's tower thingy is good, too, but it really isn't feasable in more fantasy settings. And politicians do suck. My dad is considering running for office, so I can say that without fear of lames....right? Besides, who wants to read a fantasy story without a princess to save? There needs to be a focal point, and a monarchy or ruler to save fits the bill. I've always been throroughly ashamed to be an American. We suck. I want to secede. Who wants to make Texas a republic again? I think I'm going to buy an island out in the Pacific somewhere that is relatively uninhabited and make it a new country. Maybe the government will let me take a corner of Nevada. I want to be my own country, without politics. Hey, let's all move to Andorra. Neither French nor Spanish... but somewhere in between. Yes, it's either that or a convent for me. Politics sucks. And I'm an anarchist too, for the record. I'll edit a little Voltaire: "Anarchism is the vice of a few intelligent people." MALLOREAN SPOILER for Eddings fans Speaking of politics...... Silk was my favorite character of all time until he ::gasp:: married was Silk. It irritated me when he married, because that kind of thing affects a man's work. He isn't going to be nearly as wiling to risk himself now that he's got Velvet to go home to. Silly, but that's the way men are. MOVING ON…… For Tetyhan: I had the same experience. Said revelations came as I was spending the night as my friend's house. It was slightly uncomfortable, to say the list, because I didn't know what to say either. I never do, be it guy, girl, or other. You've already told her you weren't interested, and it stops there, I should say. Just ignore the "suppresed desire" looks, as I call them, and no biggie. Adios, my friends. Homework awaits, as usual. Rhiannon Shadowsong ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 20:00:47 PDT From: "ambermoon starshadow" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: scattered nonsensical ramblings Message-ID: <19990512030048.28059.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> Heyla listsibs, on the subject of gods and goddesses, I think it's likely that there are only two main gods, Vkandis and Kal'enel, and all the other main gods/goddesses are faces of those. the scene with Tarma and Roald and the Goddess certainly supports this, as does the Goddess' remark to Kethry (I have textevd!): "I am nothing but another face of your own Lady Windborn--how could I not know you?" (Oathbound, p. 296 pb) She is probably Valdemar's Lady Astera as well, also referred to as Lady Bright. the horned god, Kernos, could then be a face of Vkandis. or not; the horned god is a concept out of Earth myths that doesn't really seem to fit with Vkandis or Kal'enel. maybe, because it's from the Arrows trilogy, Misty hadn't quite planned out her deities yet. even if there are only two main gods, that doesn't mean they're the only ones. it's quite possible to have lesser deities and higher beings without them being major gods. I think that's what Thalkarsh would have become, a lesser god. then there's that scene in MPromise, when Van is talking to Death, mistakes him for a god, and Death says something like "Don't kneel to me, I am only a messanger." (no textevd, sorry) so Death is a higher being, not a god. the avatars come under that heading as well, though lesser than Death. there's even the spirits from the other planes. so there's a whole hierarchy of lesser beings, with Kal'enel and Vkandis at the top (according to my theory, at least). on other stuff, I think Communism is a good idea in theory that didn't work out in practice; but I still like Socialism and would like to see a gov't under it that actually works. monarchies are just easier to deal with in fantasy, I think. if the author isn't interested in going into details about the working of gov't, a monarchy simplifies things enormously. that is not to say that there aren't some fine novels out there with political intrigue and manipulation under monarchies, but it isn't necessary to all books. (don't have the quote, sorry) which New England state reinstated the death penalty? I live in New England, and I hadn't heard this (just goes to show how connected I am to the plane of reality I actually live in). that's bad news. very bad news. for all of you who can't see Star Wars for months, here's the greatest irony: I am one of the lucky ones who live in the US, and I will not see it until probably as late as you. too much to do, I will never get the time to go to the movies. *sigh* production week, tests and papers, AP exam, *Ambermoon falls over in a dead heap on the floor* I am now officially dead. the coroner's report is in. look for vital signs in about a month. -Ambermoon Singer of Fire Royal Defender of the Brat _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 23:28:16 -0400 From: "Tanya Evans" To: Subject: Re: Mother's Day & Religion, Politics and Theives Message-ID: <000901be9c27$79b64ac0$23040618-+AT+-baycty1.mi.home.com> Speaking of monarchies in booksm specifically the Misty books. It was a releif to me that Misty didn't use monarchy exclusivly in her books. The Shin'an'in or Taleydras (hope I spelled those right) could hardly be considered a monarchy. Could someone share with me what type of government there's might be? I have several names on the tip of my tongue but I none seem to be the right ones. Heirarchy and pedocracy is the only two I can think of that even remotely fit. In repsponse to the snippet below: Silk was my favorite character two. I was equally upset in the books when he married Liselle. ----- Original Message ----- From: Katie McQuage > Silk was my favorite character of all time until he ::gasp:: married was > Silk. It irritated me when he married, because that kind of thing > affects a man's work. He isn't going to be nearly as wiling to risk > himself now that he's got Velvet to go home to. Silly, but that's the > way men are. > MOVING ON.. ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1962 **********************************