MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1969 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) reply to becky, and misties? by "You" 2) Re: Firesong by Paige 3) stuff by "Kristy Lyseng" 4) Re: Firesong by David John Curry 5) Re: Firesong by Kenneth Allen Hyde 6) _Organized_ Ramblings from the Sleepy One (will wonders never cease?) by Liss 7) Re: Firesong by Paige 8) A newcomer's wide-eyed rambellings by ladyember-+AT+-email.com 9) Re: Firesong by Melvin Nevergold 10) Re: Firesong by DNurkTwins-+AT+-aol.com 11) Firesong by "ambermoon starshadow" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 23:50:46 -0000 From: "You" To: Subject: reply to becky, and misties? Message-ID: <00bd01bea0c0$40b63300$eca415a5-+AT+-knbwubxl> in reply to my stupid multiple posting *slaps head*, Becky wrote: : On the Di Tregarde subject, I'm going to take up a position firmly :in the middle. I enjoy the Di books, but primarily as light entertainment :and source of the occasional good line. ("By the Seven Rings of Zsa Zsa :Gabor and the Rock of Elizabeth Taylor I command you!") I understand why :they don't sell. considering they don't carry anita blake in singapore. *gasp shock gasp* i really don't have anything to compare on. DT has little in the way to offer in the detective/horror/gothic genres. you know, the only thing terrifying about it are the wierd gaki(s?) and umm aztec gods. then again, the aztec gods bit was supposed to be absolutely based on history right? ah well. yeah, DT's only good for quips ("Jesus Cluny Frog on a Pogo stick!") which also appear in the urb fan series... *shrugs then frowns in thought* hmm, which... ahh! lost the thought! :Perhaps I interpreted Cennydd's original response differently, but I saw :little "finger-pointing" on his part, merely pointing out that there are :both good and bad things about every place, and that the US does have its :points and isn't necessarily the Great Satan. sorry, it's just me and my terribly inept expressions. yes becky, i think we can agree on this one. : This irritates me. Optimism acknowledges that :there are things gravely wrong with the world, but says that they are not :all there is. I call this the "azalea" mentality, If those two kids in :Littleton had been raised in a culture that fosters that mentality rather :than cynicism and despair, things might have been different. yes well, maybe, as you said, it's the damned hormones working on us all, but i don't see much optimism the way the world is going. Idealism yes, optimism no. as tech increases, everyone's getting more isolated, alone, etc. it's hard not to find depression or cynicism in that posture. yesss, the thing is, they weren't raised in a culture that fosters mentality. they were left alone to deal with their own problems, treated like a "kidult", like so many teens are treated today. We have the responsibilities of an adult (At times) and the freedom of a kid. what? :No one ever tells the rest of the kids that it won't be like this forever. you mean it isn't? *raises an eyebrow* forgive the disbeliever, but sometimes, i think that this is the only reason why i read fantasy we all want to escape this world so badly, that self-delusion doesn't sound so bad. sad ain't it? :And thanks for the giggle-bubbles, Shadowblade! you're welcome speaking of which, i'd like to say that well, it being the middle of may, that the first rounds of voting/nominations for the misty awards will open on June 1st, and hopefully, LJ will help me with this. for newbies, the misties are generally where we vote for our fave characters/scenes/filk/books/series. ahh, it's basically a list of faves. :) any queries/complaints should be directed to shadowdancer-+AT+-deathsdoor.com and not to the list at large. apologies for the double mail, it's just that i wasn't sure if i was lagging, or if my mail got lost, or if i got deleted, etc. yep, it's insecure ole me. ;) sheep shaped giggle-bubbles *huh?* ( ) Wind to thy Wings <==-+AT+-==> Shadowblade, mindmate to Raul | | Fairgove elven archer >>~~~> | | High Priestess of the Goddess of Elves and Unicorns and OOPS | | OOUH Advocate of the entire Urban Fantasy group! :) \/ Singer of Fire, Member of the Mistic Circle ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 11:51:09 -0400 From: Paige To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Firesong Message-ID: <37403AEC.6C452D55-+AT+-sympatico.ca> David John Curry wrote: > > Paige wrote: > > > I wouldn't say that. Neither of my cats are "typical" house cats. They > > really don't do any of the annoying things that cats of friends do... I > > guess I'm lucky. > > Oh, mine do . > > They loaf around all day in my parent's room and then take a sudden > dislike > to each other's presence and chase each other round the house. > > In the evening, they finally decide to go out and it's a dickens of a > job > to get them back in at nightfall. Ah, well, my cats are *true* house pets. They are not allowed outside. We live in a neighbourhood bordered by two very busy street and a highway, so it's safer to keep them in. Plus, if the big guy gets out he beats up the neighbourhood dogs ;-) > > I do know the difference you know. > > Many apologies. 'ts okay :-) > > He's just a brat, he's not a murderer. > > I know, but some places blame society for maladjusted characters and > fail > to take corrective steps and so "brats" *become* more antisocial because > there's no conseqence to their actions. > > Firesong's problems are exasperated by his clan's attitude that "special > people" need "special treatment" and this treatment seems to involve > acceptance of unacceptable behaviour just in case it destroys his > genius. Then shouldn't part (if not most) f the blame for Firesongs attitude / behaviour lie with his clan? Had they not acted as if he were above *mere mortals* is it not possible that he would have better handled himself as an adult? I think the main part of him that bothers me is his feelings concerning his lovers. He speaks at one part of never having to do the "courting" himself. Thus, when An'desha (who I love) starts to drift away he almost can't comprehend the reasons why. He can't for even a moment think that it has absolutely nothing to do with him personally. I can only hope that Silverfox will be good for him and possibly bring him down off his pedestal :-) -- Paige GO LEAFS!!! proud to be Outlandish When you are finally holding all the cards, why does everyone else decide to play chess. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 08:52:41 PDT From: "Kristy Lyseng" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: stuff Message-ID: <19990517155242.71606.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> Heyla! Yikes! When I was writing about the government stuff, I didn't realise what a big stir it created! But I fear that I may have offended some people and for that, I am sorry. I didn't mean for this to become a discussion where everybody bashes other people's countries. To Cenydd: You keep on looking for the brightness, and warmth of the world and keep on reminding us who think the world is always gloomy and awful that it isn't all THAT bad. We ALL need reminders every now and then. Sorry, guys, but I'm a little depressed and sad. A neighbor I knew just passed away, and, although I hope that he's found a better place in the afterlife, I'll miss him. But on a cheerful note, my father just bought one of my favourite science fiction films: Contact. I love that movie! This is a spoiler space for Werehunter. S P O I L E R S P A C E Well, on Saturday I finished Werehunter. I loved it! I think I'll go down to the mall and buy it when I have the chance. You know, I wouldn't mind seeing a story about Grey. That was pretty good. What do you guys think? S P O I L E R S P A C E Love, Light and Laughter, Kristy ----------------------- "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe."--Albert Einstein ----------------------- "You're an interesting race. You can create such beautiful dreams . . . and such horrible nightmares."--Contact (Pretty close to the exact words.) ----------------------- ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 17:35:48 +0100 From: David John Curry To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Firesong Message-ID: <37405374.3CE8BC86-+AT+-exeter.ac.uk> Paige wrote: > We live in a neighbourhood bordered by two very busy street and a > highway, so it's safer to keep them in. One of my cats nearly got run over a while ago and ever since then they've not gone onto the road, just into the fields to the south of us. > He can't for even a moment think that it has absolutely nothing to > do with him personally. Ah, but that's a reason why I like ML's books -- that "blindness" is so prevalent among *us* (even the repressed self-doubting British), and so she writes it in. David. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 12:49:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Kenneth Allen Hyde To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Firesong Message-ID: On Mon, 17 May 1999, Paige wrote: > Then shouldn't part (if not most) f the blame for Firesongs attitude / > behaviour lie with his clan? Had they not acted as if he were above > *mere mortals* is it not possible that he would have better handled > himself as an adult? Well, I guess from my point of view, there are two issues here. To whom do we assign "blame" and who is "responsible." I'm old-fashioned enough to believe that each person is responsible for their own actions. If you do something, then you are responsible, and you have to live with the consequences. On the other hand, I also recognize that we are products of our environments. In that sense, we might "blame" the family/society surrounding a person for damaging someone or for raising someone without a moral sense. However, putting the blame on society does not in any way reduce an individual's responsibility for themselves. Let's face it, if someone hold's a gun to your head and says "do such and such, or I will kill you", you still have a choice and you are still responsible. There are some things, e.g. seriously harming a child, that I personally would choose to tell my captor "then just shoot me, 'cause I won't do it." Getting this back to Firesong: we can blame his clan, family, friends, lovers, what-have-you as much as we want. But he is responsible for his own actions. He is an intelligent and sensitive person. I do not believe that possibly negative social influences cancel out his responsibility for his own behavior and how it affects others. Mind you, I don't see anything particularly wrong with Firesong. He's gorgeous, but he doesn't use it to hurt people. He's powerful, but he uses his power responsibly. He's intelligent, but he doesn't spend his time putting others down. He's confident, but he has more reason to be than just about anyone else in the books. And he does seem to care for the people in his life. Sounds like someone I would like to have for a friend. Certainly, he would be a more pleasant friend than someone who has no self-esteem, uses their intelligence/power to hurt others on a regular basis, etc. Trust me, I've dated guys like that, and have several acquaintances like that, and the good-hearted, confident types are much easier to deal with. > I can only hope that Silverfox will be good for him and possibly bring > him down off his pedestal :-) I don't. I hope that Silverfox gets right up on the pedestal with him, and the two of them live out the rest of their days, happily, up there. Hmmm. In fact, I'll broaden that. I hope that every single person on this list (and maybe in the world) finds at least one person, and preferrably several, who will put them on a pedestal. Pedestals are wonderful places to be. We should all be so lucky. May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd Councilor of Mist Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me //www.ling.udel.edu/hyde/prof/ken.html ------------------------------ Date: 17 May 99 14:49:23 PDT From: Liss To: Mercedes Lackey Mailing List Subject: _Organized_ Ramblings from the Sleepy One (will wonders never cease?) Message-ID: <19990517214923.16632.qmail-+AT+-www0i.netaddress.usa.net> Heyla All! I've been staying out of this, but I guess that it's time to jump into the arena of dissension. *Liss steps up on to the communal soapbox* David John Curry wrote: I have to admit, my country resembles that remark *g*. I'm not that way, but it does seem to come across as the general attitude. I prefer to think that most of the American people aren't like that, but the one's that think that way are _loud_ (and unfortunately, in control of the government). Cennyd wrote: Thank you Cennyd for the reality check. Reality is not white or black, it's gray. There's a lot of good and a lot of bad out there in the world. If we just concentrate on one or the other, we're not even close to seeing the whole picture. I try and seek out the good, acknowledge the bad, and work at bringing a little more light into the world. It's kind of like voting. If all you do is whine and complain, but don't go out and do something about it, what's going to happen? As my son says, "Absolutely nuthin'!" That's not Pollyanna ppl, that's real! "Mark Severson" wrote: It's not that we're offended, it's that it's not really what this list is for. I _like_ political arguments, but not when they get out of hand. I want this list to stay the friendly, open place that it has been while I've been here! *Time for Liss to step off of her soapbox, ducking a storm of sheep shaped pillows* Obviously, those statements are just the way I feel. *We now return you to your regular light and fluffy programming...* "Jamie Jacobs" wrote: >Speaking of our favourite vain bird, when will owlkinght be out? i have >finished the other two, and wnat the third already =0) Last I'd heard, it was still October '99. Khisanth's sig said: <"There is another theory which states that this has already happened." -Douglas Adams> *grin* I _love_ Douglas Adams. Right up there with Pterry! Anyways, I'm sure that's more than enough commentary from me for you all! *Liss offers a round of chocolate-covered cherry marshmallow sheep in apology* Zhai'helleva Listsibs! Liss, the Ever-Tired :*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:. Have you ever stopped to think and forgot to start again? ---------------------------- My Home Page: http://members.tripod.com/half_asleep Joke List:http://www.ONElist.com/subscribe/twistedjokes Novelty Songs:http://www.ONElist.com/subscribe/noveltysongs .:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:. ____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 19:22:42 -0400 From: Paige To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Firesong Message-ID: <3740A4C1.1FFDB00D-+AT+-sympatico.ca> Kenneth Allen Hyde wrote: > On Mon, 17 May 1999, Paige wrote: > > > Then shouldn't part (if not most) f the blame for Firesongs attitude / > > behaviour lie with his clan? Had they not acted as if he were above > > *mere mortals* is it not possible that he would have better handled > > himself as an adult? > > Well, I guess from my point of view, there are two issues here. To whom > do we assign "blame" and who is "responsible." I'm old-fashioned enough > to believe that each person is responsible for their own actions. If you > do something, then you are responsible, and you have to live with the > consequences. On the other hand, I also recognize that we are products of > our environments. In that sense, we might "blame" the family/society > surrounding a person for damaging someone or for raising someone without a > moral sense. However, putting the blame on society does not in any way > reduce an individual's responsibility for themselves. Let's face it, if > someone hold's a gun to your head and says "do such and such, or I will > kill you", you still have a choice and you are still responsible. There > are some things, e.g. seriously harming a child, that I personally would > choose to tell my captor "then just shoot me, 'cause I won't do it." > > Getting this back to Firesong: we can blame his clan, family, friends, > lovers, what-have-you as much as we want. But he is responsible for his > own actions. He is an intelligent and sensitive person. I do not believe > that possibly negative social influences cancel out his responsibility for > his own behavior and how it affects others. Mind you, I don't see > anything particularly wrong with Firesong. He's gorgeous, but he doesn't > use it to hurt people. He's powerful, but he uses his power responsibly. > He's intelligent, but he doesn't spend his time putting others down. He's > confident, but he has more reason to be than just about anyone else in the > books. And he does seem to care for the people in his life. Sounds like > someone I would like to have for a friend. Certainly, he would be a more > pleasant friend than someone who has no self-esteem, uses their > intelligence/power to hurt others on a regular basis, etc. Trust me, I've > dated guys like that, and have several acquaintances like that, and the > good-hearted, confident types are much easier to deal with. > > > I can only hope that Silverfox will be good for him and possibly bring > > him down off his pedestal :-) > > I don't. I hope that Silverfox gets right up on the pedestal with him, > and the two of them live out the rest of their days, happily, up there. > > Hmmm. In fact, I'll broaden that. I hope that every single person on > this list (and maybe in the world) finds at least one person, and > preferrably several, who will put them on a pedestal. Pedestals are > wonderful places to be. We should all be so lucky. > > May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, First let me say that I agree with most (if not all) of your reasoning about blame. I actually meant fault, but I guess you could use the same argument there. Quite frankly I was giving Firesong an excuse so that the "FS-shippers" wouldn't jump on me ;-) About pedestals - Perhaps I should have said "high horse" it's closer to what I meant. What I was going for was the fact that by Storm Breaking Silverfox had Firesong acting a little more "mortal". Granted he was still griping, but in the same situation I'd be griping too (you should see me on a camping trip, esp. if it's for more than a weekend ;-)) . But the good part was that he had sort of gone away from "this is what I deserve" attitude to "this is what makes me happy and I miss it." and I see nothing wrong with that. Am I being clear? I'm sorry if I'm not. -- Paige GO LEAFS!!! Proud to be Outlandish Royal Defender of The Brat ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 20:27:10 -0400 (EDT) From: ladyember-+AT+-email.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: A newcomer's wide-eyed rambellings Message-ID: <9905172027101Q.00476-+AT+-www5.iname.net> Heyla list! First, I wanted to say 'thank you' for all who have helped to make me feel welcome here. I think I am starting to catch on. =) All the political stuff is...well, I never pay attention in current events class, and I've got to get my news from somewhere...! And I like Firesong! He seems like the kind of person who would be my friend, if he were here. Sure, he has personality flaws? But who doesn't? I certainly do. That's about all. I think I'll keep listening for a while, and maybe eventually understand completely what's going on! Lady Ember Echosinger ----------------------------------------------- FREE! The World's Best Email Address -+AT+-email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 20:30:57 -0400 From: Melvin Nevergold To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Firesong Message-ID: <04df22926001259FE1-+AT+-mail1.carolina.rr.com> At 01:10 AM 5/18/99 +0100, you wrote: >Kenneth Allen Hyde wrote: > >> On Mon, 17 May 1999, Paige wrote: >> >> > Then shouldn't part (if not most) f the blame for Firesongs attitude / >> > behaviour lie with his clan? Had they not acted as if he were above >> > *mere mortals* is it not po>>ssible that he would have better handled >> > himself as an adult? >> Well, I guess from my point of view, there are two issues here. To whom >> do we assign "blame" and who is "responsible." isn't this alot like calling einstein Arrogant or saying misty would have an attitude for being proud of her novels ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 21:22:30 EDT From: DNurkTwins-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Firesong Message-ID: <66200eb9.24721ad6-+AT+-aol.com> ok, im a newcomer to this, but i love these books, so i think i'll put my word in. i think that firesong was an altogether nice person, and in this book mercedes lackey wanted to show his faults better and make him more of a real person. i know i didnt mind forgiving him after all of his thoughts of harming karal. i think it also made u more inclined to see problems starting with him later and feel like you knew him more personally when he was mentioned in later books (ie: owlflight). ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 20:00:07 PDT From: "ambermoon starshadow" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Firesong Message-ID: <19990518030008.21883.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> Heyla, Time for the loyal Singer of Fire to trot out the old refrain once more. All oldbies may skip this if you wish, but newbies (or those who don't remember) hark! Firesong is a wonderful person who is not perfect. He was raised in a place where everyone admired him for his power and beauty, and naturally he got very vain about it, but at the same time no one saw him for anything else. He couldn't form relationships that were anything more than surface deep, and grew to believe no one cared about him, all anyone saw or cared about was his looks and his magic. And that _is_ all anyone saw. He was not delusional. He did blow things out of proportion in Storms, but that was not his fault (not giving reason b/c I don't feel like using Spoiler space). For accusations he's like a house cat, I love house cats. Firesong is like them; all he requires is care and some admiration, and he is amusing to watch and impossible not to like. Who did not enjoy his treatment of stupid Council members? And I happen to like the flashy brilliant mage, "Pandemonium". And above all he is a Healing-Adept, with a care for other people and the land that goes far beyond his care for himself, no matter what others might say (and I have the textevd to back this up, I just don't feel like looking for it now). -Ambermoon Singer of Fire Royal Defender of the Brat _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1969 **********************************