MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1975 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: lifebonding, other characters, spoiler thingy by Julia Gray 2) Re: Why "witch"? by Kenneth Allen Hyde 3) Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 1974 by Ellen K Fluharty 4) Re: Heyla all! by "charlotte distefano" 5) Braid of Herald info/Gifts/Lifebonds/Silver Gryph. (no spoiler) by Heather Arnold 6) Re: Ramblings, stray spaceships and yes, some misty content by Paige 7) Re: Why "witch"? by EarthSongW-+AT+-aol.com 8) SW, Velgarth Visitors and other things... by Jennifer Slusher 9) by "Freedom Walker" 10) Star Wars by "ambermoon starshadow" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 09:48:38 -0500 From: Julia Gray To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: lifebonding, other characters, spoiler thingy Message-ID: <374966C6.AE1C2EF9-+AT+-oakton.edu> Paige wrote: > But how many at in one time period. There are currently (I think) only > three lifebonded couples. Sherril and Keren, Talia and Dirk and Selenay > and Daren. > aren't kero and ....(blanking on name) lifebonded? You're right, though, that there aren't that many at one time. I forget, when reading the books that there are many different time periods that are covered. Other characters that would be interesting to see in Velgarth (off the top of my head - I may post again after further reflection): Robinton (McCaffrey) Jacqueline Kirby (Peters) Miss Marple (Christie) Spock (Rodenberry) and I'd think they'd be great as: Robinton - too easy to say bard, I think companion to queen's own would be good Kirby - not sure ... maybe teacher of articifers Miss Marple - someone attached in some way to the collegium Spock - an aritificer I was thinking of saying Elvis - but only before the 60's - and he'd be a bard :-) spoiler thingy - there have been (I think) two posts that had very very nice spaces and warnings for spoilers - but no mention of what the spoilers were for. it's very very nice to be warned - but it would also be nice if I (at least) knew ahead of time what the warning was for :-) Thanks!! caramel popcorn sheep to all!! betha'lis ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 12:39:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Kenneth Allen Hyde To: Misty Lackey List Subject: Re: Why "witch"? Message-ID: On Sun, 23 May 1999 EarthSongW-+AT+-aol.com wrote: > Anyway here is some background on the word witch. It literally means > Wise person, Its derived from the word wick in Gaelic (there are other > derivations but this is the most accurate.) Two points. The word "witch" does not "literally" mean "wise person." Rather it is derived from a word which originally meant that. Also, the word was not Gaelic, but rather Old English (OE wicce--fem. of wicca, wise person). The same root that led to witch ("wiC") also led to the words "wit", "wise", "wizard", and "wicked" (in the latter case, as a late example of semantic shift due to the acrruing connotation of badness associated with witches in the Early Christian times). This is the same root that developed into "weiS" in the German language branch and gave modern German the verb "to know." BTW, the root "wiC" is very old (it goes back at least to proto-Germanic, and may actually go back to Proto-Indo-European. I will have to double check that. > Now Being a witch does not imply a pact with the devil, It means that > you understand nature, and magical practices, and are able to perform > them. It would depend on which speech community you are talking about. However, in Standard American English and also in the Queen's English, the primary definition of a "witch" remains "a person, usually a woman, posessed of magical powers, and usually of malign intent." In the more enlightened speech communities, multiple definitions are accepted, where "witch" becomes "a practitioner of Wicca" or "a person who uses magic," "a believer in an Earth-centered magical system" or a number of other possibilities. However, it is misrepresenting the case, about English, to say that "witch" no longer means a malign magic-user. It would be better to say that, in many speech communities, "witch" no longer means ONLY a malign magic-user. In that sense, I totally agree with the first clause in the quote immediately above this paragraph: being a witch does not necessarily IMPLY devil worship. That is merely one of the many possible interpretations that a native speaker of English could make. > Witches do not sacrafice people or animals, they do not drink their > own blood or other stupid hollywood media ideas. Some of them do, unfortunately. In the Southwest, for example, Navajo witches get up to all sorts of unsavory things, and there are a number of people who go by the term "witch" who are at least comfortable with animal sacrifice. It's just that not all people who self-identify as witches do these things. > as for why misty would use the term witch, I don't really know but i have my > suspicions, although she publicly denies it, she may very well be a witch > herself. Certainly, I think that Diana is supposed to be a practicing witch, of the modern Wicca-style type. At the very least, Misty may have chosen to cast her as something that a large number of readers would recognize, a modern Witch. May the seas be your solace and the forests a refuge for your spirit, Cennydd Councilor of Mist Kenneth Allen Hyde | No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife Univ. of Delaware | between the shoulder blades will seriously Dept. of Linguistics | cramp his style -- Old Jhereg proverb kenny-+AT+-Udel.Edu | A mind is a terrible toy to waste! -- Me //www.ling.udel.edu/hyde/prof/ken.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 14:44:57 -0400 From: Ellen K Fluharty To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: MERCEDES-LACKEY digest 1974 Message-ID: <19990524.144459.-4073635.0.Efluharty-+AT+-juno.com> This is completely off topic...but I JUST SAW PHANTOM MENACE!!!!!!! no spoilers, I promise...but it was soooooo great!!!!!! and to all the critics who don't like it...it's a space fantasy (opera) and was written like one....and certainly as good as the first three... (and Liam Neeson is such a cutie!, meow!) May the force be with you.. Ellen shena Liha'irden Priestess to the God of New Homes Keeper of Ingrid, the boogie woogie beanie Lamb WV Spy for CfWD/ Lady in Green She'endra to Laurel shena Dester'tale ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 12:07:43 PDT From: "charlotte distefano" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Heyla all! Message-ID: <19990524190744.14399.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> >Jamie Jacobs wrote: > > > > Okay, Darkwind and Lady Elspeth, Selenay and Daren, Nyara and Skif, The > > gryphons, and (feeling so stupid for not being able to remember their >names) > > The couple from owlflight to name a few Paige wrote: >I think of the ones you mentioned only Selenay and Daren are bonded. >Nyara and Skif were told by Stef that a lifebond was not the >be-all-to-end-all and instead of wishing to be bonded they should >concentrate on their love. > >Darkwind and Elspeth definitely do not seem to be bonded, they just >don't act like it, and I don't think there has ever been any mention >that they were has there? >Any one else? > Actually, I think Darkwind and Elspeth are lifebonded. In the beginning of one of the Storms books (the first, I think) Elspeth tells An'desha (sp?) that she and Darkwind are "bonded", in respnse to An'desha being upset about Firesong's flirting whith Darkwind. I took that to mean that Elspeth and Darkwind were lifebonded, but I guess it's open to interpretation. :Messiah sheep to all!!: ;) ~Lightsong ~Royal Defender of the Brat ~Dame of Amber and Marigold "If you're going to traverse thin ice, you might as well dance your way across!" -Skif "Nothing is more important that playing the piano...except for maybe eating" -My piano teacher _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 15:17:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Heather Arnold To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Braid of Herald info/Gifts/Lifebonds/Silver Gryph. (no spoiler) Message-ID: The Typodragon wings in with a sheet of freshly-baked sheep....er...sheep-shaped cookies (heh.) and a huge barrel of steaming chai. Hello to all, and congrats all those graduating in the next couple'a weeks. :) Farlie wrote: <> If you only need the list of Herald requirements (or Healer, Bard, Tayledras, Shin'a'in, or White Wind Sorcerperson ;}, for that matter), L.A. Malcor keeps viewable and print-outable versions at Danya Winterborn's Page, http://DRAGONLORDS.dragonfire.net/danya.htm And information about Queens Own/Merging of the Ways is available online at http://DRAGONLORDS.dragonfire.net/qo.htm A download of the EXTREMELY IMPORTANT RELEASE FORM that you'll need in order to write fanfics in Misty's world are also available at http://DRAGONLORDS.dragonfire.net/mlrel2.htm Or I *believe* you can request one from Highflight via snail-mail by mailing your request and a self-addressed, stamped envelope to Highflight, P.O. Box 8309, Tulsa, OK, 74101-8309 Queen's Own - Merging of the Ways, the Queen's Own newsletter, is available as a paper-based or email subscription for $8 and $4, respectively, and offers news on new releases, conventions, Q.O.-affiliated fanzines and chapter newsletters, persona recognition, personals, and more. Oy. That was long-winded. Chris Robertson wrote: <> * * * (What follows may contain spoilers for the Mage Winds trilogy) * * * Yeah, this was kind of the same discussion that we got into when we discussed the possible genetic basis of Gifts. Im for this mode of thinking simply because Misty makes such a great distinction between body/soul and has on several occasions suggested that when folks come back for another round, their physical and magical characteristics are different (Tylendel/Stef being the most obvious). One noteworthy exception I saw was the case of Dawnfire & that other guy as avatars, who seemed to retain a lot of their earthly gift characteristics, even though their physical beings were gone. Perhaps it's a case of channels or potential, as was once mentioned - mortal creatures like humans, and to some extent magic beings like Companions and Firecats - may only have the physical or structural capacity to use certain powers or channel certain energies, but once the physical body is out of the picture, all Gifts are available. This would both help explain why reincarnatees could come back with different Gifts, and why dead folks like Kris could do more as spirits than they could as physical beings (Kris, though he appeared to only have FarSight & Mindspeech, was able to project himself in dreams to Talia, do a little healing (maybe) to ease her suffering, & move the flowers to her bed). This would *not*, however, explain Falconsbane, who only had to find a body with a tiny amount of talent in order to invade & incorporate all his powers. Lady Ember Echosinger wrote: <> No, its not very good, but its an easy read and shouldnt waste too much of your time. It would've been a terrific short story; however, I feel that, as a novel, it falls short of Misty's standard. As always, this is IMHO... several people on-list have stated that they liked _Silver Gryphon_ Julia Gray wrote: << My contemplation led to this thought: We all know that the manifestation of certain gifts, or even an increase in heraldic candidates, can be indication of trouble ahead. Could not the appearance of more lifebondings also be the same? Although lifebondings are not easy, perhaps the support such a pairing offers is necessary in troubled times - so more lifebondings take place.>> And Paige answered: <> I dunno...the powers that be in Valdemar never seemed overly concerned with Herald death. Heralds die all the time - the point of generating Heralds with needed Gifts at the proper times seemed to have more to do with what their lives could do to benefit Valdemar. If a lifebond was necessary to make one of those needed Gifts more stable, then maybe that would account for it. If death meant losing two Heralds instead of one and this loss was outweighed by their collective benefit to Valdemar... This is all for the sake of argument, BTW. Im of the opinion that lifebonds are bonds between the souls of the characters & don't have much if anything to do with Gifts or physical presence (see previous braid ;) Through sunsets golden, Typo ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 15:20:28 -0400 From: Paige To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Ramblings, stray spaceships and yes, some misty content Message-ID: <3749A67C.D5B8E517-+AT+-sympatico.ca> Julia Gray wrote: > > Paige wrote: > > > But how many at in one time period. There are currently (I think) only > > three lifebonded couples. Sherril and Keren, Talia and Dirk and Selenay > > and Daren. > > > aren't kero and ....(blanking on name) lifebonded? Eldan and I don't know, I forgot about them. I'd think that were the way the act. Liseth wrote: > > Shadowlight wrote: > > > Another deep, meaningful i-don't-want-to-study thought: Does anyone else > > think that people might go back to the dependence on mages that Vanyel was > > preventing when he put up the barrier now that it's down? People might see > > or hear that magic defeated Ancar's armies and think "Right, Herald-mages > > are powerful and new, so they must be more effective than > > just-plain-Heralds." > > Actually, this has been worrying me. Not because Herald-Mages are > powerful and new, but because that "Mage" tacked on the end creates a > _distinction_ between a Herald-Mage and other Heralds. I mean, you don't > call Talia a Herald-Empath or Dirk a Herald-Fetcher or Selanay a > Herald-Mindspeaker. That Heralds who happen to be Mages have their Gift > specified in their title creates a distinction. A distinction implies a > difference. A difference implies one is better than the other. I think > this was the real problem when the Herald-Mages died out. The people of > Valdemar felt that because of the distinction, the Herald-Mages were > better. I can't see how this would change with the "modern" day. > > Did that make any sense or am I completely off my rocker? I'd say you're making perfect sense. Vanyel said pretty much the same thing, IIRC, in Price (Promise?) when his father requested a Herald Mage and received "just" a Herald. One can only hope that everyone in the circle will do their best to ensure that history does not end up repeating itself. Elspeth sort of started that on the road by telling her escorts not to think of her as "something special" just because she was a Herald Mage. And Kero sort of continued it oops spoiler perhaps * * * Spoiler for Storm Rising * * * when the storms first hit. She said something like "where'd everyone get the idea that magic is the solution to every problem?" Pointing out about how they'd always done just fine with the Heralds gift and that there wasn't a single country that she knew of that used mind-magic as "scientifically" as the Heralds do. OB Misty... I've been re-reading Arrows and was wondering about Mero and The One. When Jeri says they only believe in one god (and that it's strange) does that mean that they believe that all the faces of everyone's gods (male and female faces) are from the same single entity, or is it that every Valdemarian religion has a pair (male and female) of gods? Just wondering. -- Paige GO LEAFS!!! Proud to be Outlandish Royal Defender of The Brat ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 16:09:34 EDT From: EarthSongW-+AT+-aol.com To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Re: Why "witch"? Message-ID: <19ab553a.247b0bfe-+AT+-aol.com> In a message dated 5-24-99 12:46:12 PM Central Daylight Time, kenny-+AT+-UDel.Edu writes: << Two points. The word "witch" does not "literally" mean "wise person." Rather it is derived from a word which originally meant that. Also, the word was not Gaelic, but rather Old English (OE wicce--fem. of wicca, wise person). The same root that led to witch ("wiC" >> Just a further comment here, In "Drawing down the Moon" By margot adler there is a rather long and scholaraly explanation of the roots of the word witch, and wic etc. etc. In which Ms. Adler explains the above and several other possible roots of the word, seeing as there is wide spread controversy and many possibilities of the root word wic, or wick. some of which *are* from the gaelic. And just to continue the thread, the word witch, today does often mean someone of malign magickal intent, however, You will find that The dictionaries are rapidly changing their definitions as are encyclopedias, to match the current earth-centric definition of witch, to a practitioner of magick, or a follower of the religion of witchcraft/wicca. ~~EarthSong~~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 17:19:53 -0400 From: Jennifer Slusher To: "'misty'" Subject: SW, Velgarth Visitors and other things... Message-ID: <01BEA60B.A8450820-+AT+-CLARB.clark.net> Heyla all....I would say "Bright the Day", but I was awakened at oohhhh-five thirty this am by a crash of thunder. I get REAL grumpy when I'm scared out of a dead sleep...(Ask a previous boyfriend who decided it was funny (ha HA.) to make me angry...I missed his nose by an inch or two...) Anyway, here's my thoughts and grumblings on most everything from the past two weeks, this is kind of long..... betha'lis wrote in response to Paige... >>aren't kero and ....(blanking on name) lifebonded? This would be Eldan....Kero's one of my favs (she kicks tail and doesn't give a damn about names) and I was entirely happy when she and Eldan proved to be lifebonded. On Vanyel.... I don't think Van was selfish, at least after he got out of that one stage he was in for the first book. He committed an ultimate sacrifice...he gave up his own happiness so that those he cared for could live in safety. It's not an easy thing to live without companionship (I know this by firsthand)..at least he had Stefen (eventually) , Savil, and 'Fandes. He also gave his own life so that Valdemar could be safe. Granted, it was what the dream was about, but he still chose to give his own life to save Valdemar. On Firesong.... Firesong is Firesong..what else can you say? He deserved a little of his arrogance because he was so incredibly good...I tend to allow people a little arrogance as long as they know what they are talking about. The new address for QO is: QO PO Box 56956 Sherman Oaks, CA 91403 Someone asked (and that stapler deleted the message..I'm going to talk with my stapler today..Sorry!!) which characters I would like to see in Velgarth....I would have to say Tannim...definitely Tannim, Shar...and Joe! Joe would go buggy at the sight of the Tayledras. Speaking of Joe, I'd like to see a story on him. Of the non Velgarth people, they are some of my favorites. Maybe Tiger and Del from the Jennifer Roberson (sp?) books. I think they and Kero would get along. Oh, just thought of this one...Xena....definitely Xena. Here's a total non-OBmisty and is not a spoiler: Y'all have to The Mummy....Brendan Fraser is a BABE and so is Oded Fehr...the guy with the tatoos on his face. Throw me on his camel and I'll ride off into the sunset with him anyday...sigh... HE (he has no website!!! Aargch!!) could play Darkwind and Brendan Fraser could be Daren. Yeah , I know...this is totally DTD but they are amazing peices of eyecandy. sigh.......... To make up for that, here's an Obmisty...(alright..it's kinda lame, but it's been bugging me for a while) Was Vanyel's hair white? I know it was black to begin with but the Tayledras all had white hair due to their living with magic, and seeing as how Vanyel's Gifts were blown (well, torpedoed would be a better word but they didn't have torpedoes on Velgarth) open and that he was a very strong mage, his hair should have turned white by the time of the last book. (Stormlight hefts a shield in front of her to protect her from the OAM...I'm not insulting him...just being curious (yeah, I know it killed that cat!!) :):):)....) Also, do you think that there are Tayledras at other places on the planet, besides the Pelagirs? I'm thinking that so much time has passed since the sundering on the clans that it is possible that the Tayledras clans (or even the other clans they mention that were not Shin'ain) managed to move to other places on the planet. The mage storms of TBG were all over the planet, and so a clan or two (and I'm not talking the Lost Clan) could have moved out further than the rest to repair the damage and the knowledge of their existence could have faded into myth since magic really couldn't be used to maintain contact. (i.e. Gates and such) Lightsong wrote: >Actually, I think Darkwind and Elspeth are lifebonded. In the beginning of >one of the Storms books (the first, I think) Elspeth tells An'desha (sp?) >that she and Darkwind are "bonded", in respnse to An'desha being upset about >Firesong's flirting whith Darkwind. I think she meant bonded as in marriage...not lifebonded. I think that if Darkwind and Elspeth had been lifebonded it would have been incorporated into the story, much like the lifebonding of Talia and Dirk was almost a "character" in the story. That's my take on it, anyway. :) NightEagle qouted.... "'... The voice of the Great Spirit is heard in the twittering of birds, the rippling of mighty waters, and the sweet breathing of flowers. If this is Paganism, then at present, at least, I am a Pagan.'" (Gertrude Simmons Bonnin (Zitkala-Sa) (1876-1938): Dakota Sioux) If this is Paganism, then sign me up. I guess I'm a Pagan.. Here's chocolate pudding in sheep shaped cups for everyone who made it this far...sorry this was so long, but I hope it was worth it....Wind to thy wings, Listsibs.... Stormlight Mother of BrightFox, Diviner of Cheerios And All Things Nummy Official Retriever Of Po, The Wonder Tubbie ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 17:26:46 EST From: "Freedom Walker" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Message-ID: <19990524222646.49509.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> hello? Kinda quiet lately? FJW _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 19:53:08 PDT From: "ambermoon starshadow" To: mercedes-lackey-+AT+-herald.co.uk Subject: Star Wars Message-ID: <19990525025309.81530.qmail-+AT+-hotmail.com> Heyla, Lady Ember wrote: >This made me smile, because just yesterday, I >was thinking of the same type of thing. >Because I *love* Star Wars, but can just >barely tolerate Star Trek. There are lots of >people who think the two are the same thing. >Probably the same people who think that >Science Fiction and Fantasy are the same. But >really, there is a big difference. Star Trek >takes place in the future, Star Wars takes >place just elsewhere, maybe even in the past. >And, they have "magic", even if they call it >"the force". So I would classify Star Wars as >fantasy. Maybe technological fantasy, but >still fantasy. Shadowblade wrote: >actually Lady Ember, you'd be surprised (or maybe not) that George >Lucas >agrees with you! He doesn't call SW "Sci-fi" in anyway at all. >It _was_ >termed a "space fantasy", with a dashing young hero off to >battle evil and >save a young princess from an evil warlord. see? the >Force reminds me of >magic, yes, esp the lackey-interpretation. almost >a psuedo-science. hmm, >and sci-fi is really a kind of futuristic >fantasy, with all the magic >taken out of it. very frankenstein-ish. >heh. Star Wars. I doubt the new prequels would live up to the hype, >but >that doesn't mean i'm gonna queue outside the local theatres... The devoted Trekker squawks indignantly: Hey! I love Star Trek! And because of rotten things called finals, I'm missing my uncle's DS9 last episode party . . . *grumbles to herself* I saw Star Wars! And despite what the critics say, I liked it. However, I shall now shut up about it before I get flamed by all my listsibs. One interesting side of fantasy/sci-fi/pop culture: my religion/culture teacher claims that in our society science fiction has become the myths, as in stories that teach us about our culture and how to act. I think she's including fantasy in that; most people don't discriminate between the two. Star Wars is the classic example of this: the archtypal myth, it has all the elements. Hero, coming-of- age, death, cycle, love, supernatural element; you can compare Star Wars to just about anything. A friend of mine and I often do, at which point the rest of the class tells us to shut up about it already. Obmisty: Can you see Velgarth as modern myth? sheep for thought, Ambermoon Singer of Fire Royal Defender of the Brat _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ End of MERCEDES-LACKEY Digest 1975 **********************************